Stop Killing Ideas! Use "Yes, And" Instead of "No, Because"

Summary

Summary of "Stop Killing Ideas! Use 'Yes, And' Instead of 'No, Because'" - The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast

Episode Release Date: January 16, 2025
Host: John Jantsch (John Chance)
Guest: Duncan Wardle, Former Head of Innovation and Creativity at Disney; Author of "The Imagination Emporium, Creative Recipes for Innovation"

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch welcomes Duncan Wardle, the former head of innovation and creativity at Disney. Duncan shares his extensive experience in fostering innovation across various Disney divisions, including Imagineering, Lucasfilm, Marvel, Pixar, and Disney Parks. He also discusses his book, The Imagination Emporium, Creative Recipes for Innovation, delving into practical strategies for cultivating creativity and innovation within organizations.

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2. Understanding Innovation vs. Creativity

Duncan Wardle distinguishes between creativity and innovation, emphasizing that while everyone can generate ideas (creativity), transforming those ideas into actionable outcomes is true innovation.

"Creativity is the ability to have an idea. We can all do that. We do it every day. Innovation is the ability to get it done."
— Duncan Wardle [02:42]

Duncan highlights the common challenges faced by experienced professionals who often dismiss new ideas due to preconceived notions about their feasibility.

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3. The 'No, Because' Mentality

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the detrimental "No, Because" approach commonly found in organizations. This mindset stifles creativity by immediately rejecting ideas without consideration.

"When somebody's constantly 'no, because'ing you, how does that make you feel?"
— Duncan Wardle [12:28]

Duncan illustrates this through a playful exercise where he and John attempt to plan a Harry Potter-themed birthday party, initially facing constant rejection of ideas. This approach leads to frustration and diminishes the potential of the original concept.

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4. Introducing the 'Yes, And' Technique

To counteract the "No, Because" mentality, Duncan introduces the improvisational technique "Yes, And," which fosters collaborative idea-building.

"Two little magical words, 'Yes, And,' have the power to turn a small idea into a big one really quickly."
— Duncan Wardle [14:16]

By embracing "Yes, And," individuals can build upon each other's ideas, leading to more innovative and expansive outcomes, as demonstrated in their subsequent discussion about a Star Wars-themed party.

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5. Tools and Strategies for Innovation

Duncan shares practical tools designed to make creativity accessible and enjoyable for everyone within an organization:

• Accessible Toolkits: Simplifying the innovation process to remove intimidation.
• Sensory Learning Styles: Catering to auditory, kinesthetic, and visual learners through QR codes, animated videos, and interactive content.
• AI Integration: Utilizing artificial intelligence to provide interactive support and answers to users’ questions about using the tools effectively.

"I wanted to create a book that's not a book. I want it to be a toolkit. I want it to be fun, but I want it to be purposeful."
— Duncan Wardle [07:48]

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6. The 'River of Thinking' Metaphor

Duncan introduces the metaphor of the "River of Thinking" to describe how established thought patterns can limit innovative potential.

"We all got stuck in it... the danger of a river of thinking."
— Duncan Wardle [18:22]

This concept explains how long-term immersion in a specific industry or role can lead to entrenched ways of thinking, hindering the adoption of new, creative approaches.

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7. Cultivating Playfulness for Creativity

Playfulness is identified as a crucial element in unlocking creative potential within the workplace.

"By being playful... I run an energizer... I'm making you laugh."
— Duncan Wardle [15:15]

Duncan emphasizes that incorporating moments of humor and lightheartedness can open the door between the conscious and subconscious mind, facilitating a state conducive to creativity known as "Amazing Alpha."

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8. Education's Impact on Creativity

Duncan critiques the traditional education system for suppressing creativity and essential skills needed for future employability.

"Education is killing the most employable skill sets of the next decade."
— Duncan Wardle [17:49]

He advocates for a shift towards gaming-based education, which he believes better nurtures imagination, creativity, curiosity, empathy, and intuition—skills that are increasingly valuable in the age of artificial intelligence.

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9. Case Study: Disney's Innovation Approach

Drawing from his experience at Disney, Duncan explains how reframing questions can lead to groundbreaking innovations.

"We will not have any customers in our park. We will only have guests."
— Duncan Wardle [18:50]

Instead of focusing on profitability ("How might we make more money?"), Disney shifted to solving consumer pain points ("How might we solve the biggest consumer pain point?"). This led to innovations like the Magic Band, which enhanced guest experiences by eliminating queues and personalizing interactions.

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10. Practical Applications and Recommendations

Duncan offers actionable advice for leaders and organizations aiming to foster a culture of innovation:

• Adopt the 'Yes, And' Approach: Encourage collaborative idea-building rather than immediate rejection.
• Implement Playfulness: Incorporate humor and light activities to stimulate creative thinking.
• Reframe Challenges: Shift focus from financial gains to solving real customer pain points.
• Embrace Diverse Learning Styles: Develop tools and resources that cater to various sensory preferences to make innovation accessible to all.

"Don't let the words 'no, because' be the first two words out of your mouth when someone brings a new idea."
— Duncan Wardle [15:14]

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11. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Duncan inviting listeners to explore his work further through his website and social platforms.

"They can normally find me in the Lamb and Flag pub in Covent Garden, but if I'm not there, you could go to the imaginationemprium.com or Duncan Point."
— Duncan Wardle [21:47]

Host John Jantsch thanks Duncan for his insightful contributions, emphasizing the value listeners can gain from applying these innovative strategies within their own businesses.

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Key Takeaways

• Shift Mindset: Transition from a dismissive "No, Because" approach to a collaborative "Yes, And" strategy to enhance idea development.
• Foster Playfulness: Incorporate humor and engaging activities to unlock creative potential.
• Reframe Problem-Solving: Focus on addressing genuine customer pain points rather than solely chasing financial metrics.
• Adapt Education: Advocate for educational reforms that prioritize creativity and essential soft skills over rote learning.
• Leverage Technology: Utilize modern tools, including AI, to make innovation processes more accessible and interactive.

By integrating these principles, organizations can create an environment where ideas thrive, leading to sustained growth and competitive advantage.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Chance. My guest today is Duncan Wardle is the former head of innovation and creativity at Disney. Duncan played a pivotal role in fostering innovation across imagineering. Lucasfilm, Marvel, Pixar and Disney parks, crafting enchanting new storylines and experiences. He's also the author of a book we're going to talk about today, the Imagination Emporium, Creative Recipes for Innovation. So, Duncan, welcome to the show.

[C]

Thank you. Thanks very much for having me.

[B]

So one of my viewers, listeners, not viewers won't be able to know this, but one of my favorite characters is Goofy. And you've got him right there behind you.

[C]

Yeah. So yes, these are hand painted. It's not an illustration. Yeah, they were created a few years ago now.

[B]

Very, very cool. So there was a book I read right when I was getting started, actually. It was very influential in me. It was written by Peter Drucker. And one of the comments in there was the only two things in business that matter are marketing and innovation. Everything else is a cost. I think a lot of people quote that and I've heard that phrase many times. But if we ask 10 people what innovation actually was in a company, I think we would get maybe 11 or 12 definitions. So how do you frame the idea of innovation? I mean, it's a very large concept, crystal clear.

[C]

Creativity is the ability to have an idea. We can all do that. We do it every day. Innovation is the ability to get it done. The Challenge for most of us is the more experience, the more expertise we have, the more reasons we know why the new idea won't work. So we constantly shoot it down. I call it our river of thinking. And it's very fast and very wide and very allowing you and me to make quick and informed decisions. But in the last four years, we've seen global pandemics, we've seen Generation Z entering the workplace, but doesn't want to work for corporate America. We've got artificial intelligence entering the marketplace. The world's changed, right? And it's changed irregular. We can't go back to thinking the way we thought four years ago. And so, you know, at Disney, I tied four models of innovation. Model number one, I hired somebody who knew what they were doing. I said, make me look good. That was an agency, and to a certain extent, they did. They were never around for execution, and they certainly weren't going to show me how they did what they did, or they were worried I wouldn't hire them again. Model number two, we're creating an innovation team. Duncan will be in charge. What could possibly go wrong? Well, outside of legal, who does legal work? Outside of marketing, who does marketing work? Nobody. So when you create an innovation team, you subliminally just told everybody else you're off the hook. We tried an accelerator program which created some level of access, enabling us to partner with some young tech startups and bring some new technology to market. But we had failed in our overall goal, which was set by the CEO of Disney, was how might we embed a culture of innovation and creativity into everybody's DNA? So I set out to create a toolkit that has three principles that takes the BS out of innovation and makes it less intimidating to normal, hardworking people. Make creativity tangible for those people who are uncomfortable with ambiguity and gray. Far more importantly, make the process fun. Give people tools they choose to use when you and I are not around.

[B]

All right, so. And I'm sure you hear this all the time, I know you'll have a great answer for this, but what do you do in those organizations or individuals who. Who we know there are lots of them say, I'm just not creative.

[C]

Yeah, I disagree. I'm sorry. Look, let me ask you a question. When you were a small boy, what was your favorite toy?

[B]

It's probably a stick.

[C]

The stick was your lightsaber. That's why it was your wand. It's anything you wanted it to be. And we were all born creative with an amazing image. When you were given a gift for A holiday. And it came in an enormous box and it took you ages to take the toy out of the box. What do you spend the rest of.

[B]

The week playing with the fort?

[C]

Yeah, the box, right. It was your force, it was your car, it was anything you wanted it to be. Till you went to the number one killer of creativity, education. And the first thing your first grade teacher told you to do was don't forget to color. In between the lines, small children, they're very curious. They ask why? Why, why, why, why? Again, because they're seek consumer truth. They're after the insight for innovation. If I were to survey 5,000 people and ask them why they go to Disney on holiday, the number one response I'll get is, we go for new attractions. But that's not strictly true, is it? So if I were to rely just on my data, I go spend $250 million on a capital investment strategy. But if I pause for a moment, that childlike, not childish, and say, well, why do you go for the new attractions? Well, now, I like the classics. Why do you like the classics? Why I like it. It's a small one. Why do you like it? It's a small one. Well, I remember the music. Oh, God, no, not the music. Why the music? What's my mum's favorite ride? We used to go every summer. Why is that important to you? 20 years later, I take my daughter now, boom. There's your insight for innovation, core consumer truth. It's got nothing to do with the capital investment strategy and everything to do with that person's personal memory and nostalgia. But then we go to the number one killer of curiosity, education. And the next thing we're taught to do is stop asking why? Because there's only one right answer. Here comes artificial intelligence. Right. We used to laugh at the blue collar workers. Well, guess what? They'll be laughing at the white collar workers now. But I've been working with Google on their DeepMind project, which is their AI project. And I asked the lead engineer what? I said, how the hell am I going to compete with this? You know what will be the most employable skill sets for the next five to 10 years? And she said, oh, that's easy. The ones that will be the hardest for her to program into AI. I said, well, what are those? She says, the ones with which you were born. Imagination, creativity, curiosity, empathy and intuition. But they're drummed out of us by the time we're 18. That's the challenge.

[B]

Of course, having some handy set of plumbing skills will become very Necessary too, though, right?

[C]

No, seriously, hands on work. Absolutely. Fine. So, look, I set out. Here's why people say, why'd you write a book? Let me ask you an honest question here. When you see a business book in an office, physically, where is the book?

[B]

Laying on a desk.

[C]

Yeah, there you go. It's on the coffee table. It's on the bookshelf. I'm going to get to it tomorrow, but my boss needs this now, so I actually never read it. I have good intentions to read it, but I don't. So I thought, okay, how do I make it more accessible to people who've got other things to do? I thought, what nonfiction book have I ever read where I could read one page today and know exactly what I was going to do and not worry about the rest of the book? Today, my mom's cookbook. You want shepherd's pie? You go to page 67. So the contents page is designed for busy people. It says, have you ever been to a brainstorm where nothing ever happened? Go to page 67. I don't know how to find insights for innovation. Go to page 42. Work in a heavily regulated news. Go to a. So it's designed to be very accessible, but it's also designed to appeal to what I call the three sensory learning styles. So let me ask you a question. May I ask you to close your eyes for just a moment? How many days are there in September?

[B]

30.

[C]

I would ask you to keep your eyes closed and tell me how you knew, how you remembered, how you learned, or what you could see with your eyes closed.

[B]

Right now I can see a calendar.

[C]

Bingo. You can open your eyes. 30% of the people will recite the rhyme. 30 days has September, blah, blah, blah. No, it's true. They just told me they learn by listening. They probably read a lot. It's an auditory stuff. How do I know that? Because they were six when they learned it. How did they remember it? Because they heard it. Another 30% put their knuckles together and start counting their knuckles. January, February, March, April, May, June, July. Those are kinesthetic learners, by the way. John, you were taught both, but you don't remember either because that's not your preferred learning style. You're the majority of the audience. You learn by seeing. You represent 40% of the audience. So I thought, okay, how do I create a book that's not a book? I want it to be a toolkit. I want it to be fun, but I want it to be purposeful. I want it to appeal to all three learning styles. So it has QR codes embedded with each chapter with sponsored by playlists for auditory learners. It has animated videos in each chapter where Duncan is now an animated character. I pop out of the book with a bunch of other characters I've created for the visual learners and teach you how to use the tools and for our kinesthetic learners starting I think today, but maybe in a couple of days from now, the QR code on the back of the book will actually take you directly to the very first ever fully integrated artificial intelligence book. Why? Because I've never done it before, that's why. So you will be able to ask the book questions through and through ChatGPT. It'll answer you through WhatsApp. So you might say, how do I use the tool on page 67? And it'll answer you. But you could also say, how do I use the tool on page 67 to develop a marketing campaign that's more of immersive experience for my brand? And the book will answer you.

[B]

Who published this book?

[C]

Amplify Published the book Amplify.

[B]

So I'm in. I've written several books with major publishers and I'm envisioning the meeting where you described what this book was going to be like.

[C]

Telling the publisher we bought he said it's a book. I said, hell no, it's not. By the way, I want to give it away for free. Needless to say, the publisher had other ideas. I still want to give it away for students because we are killing the most employable skill sets for the next decade.

[B]

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[C]

And this is particularly for leaders, right? Because again, the more experience we have, the more reasons we know why the new idea won't work. So, John, you and I have been tasked with coming up with an idea for a birthday party or a Harry Potter birthday party. I'm going to. Are you familiar with Harry Potter?

[B]

And I'm not a. Yes, I'm familiar, but I'm not a junkie.

[C]

No, but have you seen a couple of films?

[B]

I have.

[C]

Okay, good. So I'm going to come at you with some ideas for a Harry Potter party. I'd like you to start each and every response with the following two words. No, because they'll be the first two words you use and you'll tell me why not. I was thinking of coming to your house, putting a sorting hat outside the front door, having all the good people get the Gryffindor party, but all the bad people get the cinnamon party.

[B]

No, because everybody just wants to play Quidditch.

[C]

Oh, right. I tell you what, then we'll give everybody a broomstick and they could go running around the back garden looking like idiots and what, the Snitch could be actually on a drone?

[B]

No, because they can't really fly.

[C]

All right, fair point. I'll tell you what then. Let's say that we'll bring them all indoors and we'll have a magic potions room where we could all drink something that turns us into something totally freaky.

[B]

No, because there's actually a giant animal in the back closet that would probably eat everyone.

[C]

All right, fair point. I tell you what then. What if we just showed the movies? We'll put them on your TV screen and we'll serve butterbeer and popcorn.

[B]

Oh, that's perfect.

[C]

No, because. Come on.

[B]

No, because there might be somebody allergic to popcorn.

[C]

Yeah. Let me ask you a question. When somebody's constantly no, because ing you, how does that make you feel?

[B]

Frustrated.

[C]

Okay. I would call it business as usual. Let me ask you a question. Do you think our idea was getting bigger as we were going, or was it getting smaller? Which way was it headed?

[B]

It was. We were down to watching the movies. It was getting smaller.

[C]

Let's start. Ken, are you familiar with Star Wars?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay, so I'm going to come at you with some Star wars ideas. Unlike Harry Potter, where you started, the response every single Time with no. Because this time I'd like you to start every single response with the words yes and. And we'll just build on it together. I was thinking, right, of coming to your house, getting into the kitchen, painting it black, turning it into the Death Star Cantina. We could have a food and wine festival from Hoffman Laboon Tattoo.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yes. And let's add Stormtroopers.

[C]

Oh, yes. And yeah, we could have a cosplay party. All the tall people could come as Darth Vader and all the little people would come to us.

[B]

Yeah. Yes. And we've got to have Yoda, don't we?

[C]

Oh, yes. Yes. And we can have the Force. Everybody get a glow in the dark lightsaber full of their favorite alcoholic liquid.

[B]

Yes. And what about Darth Vader? Could he appear?

[C]

Oh, yes, and we could have Harrison Ford. Or even the dead celebrities could come back via hologram. And we could take them all on your corporate jet down to Disneyland to see the new Galaxy's Edge.

[B]

Yes. And why not invite George Lucas?

[C]

All right, so we'll stop there. So, a lot more laughter, a lot more energy. Most of us became Italian for the first time today, waving our arms. This time around. Bigger or smaller?

[B]

Well, it kept getting much larger.

[C]

You can always take a big idea and value engineer it down. Pretty hard to turn a small one into a big one. Far more importantly, we work inside big organizations. We work inside small organizations. We have colleagues and constituents and clients and come to bring on board with our idea. By the time you and I just finished building that idea together, whose idea was it by the time we finished?

[B]

Oh, it was totally mine.

[C]

I would argue hours. John, here's the thing. Two little magical words. Yes. And have the power to turn a small idea into a big one really quickly. But far more importantly, has the power to transfer my idea, which never goes anywhere inside an organization, to our idea and accelerate its opportunity to get done. Just remind yourselves, I know you're leaders. I know you've got responsibilities and quarterly results and deadlines. Just remind ourselves we're not green lighting this idea for execution today. We are merely greenhousing it together using yes. And if you take nothing away from listening to today's podcast, don't let the words know, because be the first two words out of your mouth. When somebody comes at you with a new idea, they are may have genius. Two days from now, two weeks from now, you'll never hear it. Your job as a leader is to. You'll get to the no because. But don't start There. The other thing that I try to teach is playfulness. And I'll tell you for why. Can I ask you to close your eyes? Where are you and what are you doing when you get your best ideas?

[B]

Definitely outside.

[C]

Okay. So you can open your eyes. I've done this with up to 20,000 people. You're here. Shower, bathroom, jogging, walking, driving, commuting, gym. Do you know how many people say at work nobody, not one person ever writes down at work? Well, why not close your eyes again? Picture that last argument you were in. Bit of a shouting match. You're angry at them, they're angry at you. Now you turn to walk away from that argument. You're 10, 20, 30 seconds away. You're about a minute away from the argument. And what just popped into your brain, totally, spontaneously, the second you turn to walk away from that argument, what was it?

[B]

What I should have said.

[C]

Well, you should have said the killer one liner. That one. Perfect, beautiful. You wished you choose during the argument. But you didn't, did you? No, never did. Why not? Because when we're in an argument, our brain is moving at a thousand miles an hour defending ourselves. When we're at work, we're doing emails and presentations and reports and we hear ourselves say, the number one barrier to innovation. I don't have time to think. And when you say I don't have time to think, you're in the brain state science calls beta, where the door between conscious and subconscious brain is firmly closed. When that door is closed, you only have access to your conscious brain. That is 13% of the capacity of your brain. 87% of the capacity of your brain is your subconscious brain. Every creative problem you've ever solved, every innovation you've seen, is back here to serve as unrelated stimulus. But when the door is shut, you don't have access to it. So how do I move you from there, metaphorically, and place you back in the shower where it is? When you have your best ideas, you can still make an informed decision, but still have a big idea. That brain state is known as alpha. I call it amazing Alpha, the best brain state for creativity at work. How do I get you there? By being playful. What do I do? I run an energizer or. What's that? It's a 60 second exercise. What am I doing? I'm making you laugh. Why am I making you laugh? Because the moment I hear laughter, I know that I've just opened the door between your conscious and subconscious brain. When we ask, who are the most creative people you've Ever met. Everybody always has children. And I always hear people say, oh, we don't have the resources. You say, oh, who are the most crazy people? Children. Oh, how much money they got? Oh, none. Now, I don't expect people to be playful every minute of every day. Life would be great fun, but we wouldn't get much work done. I do expect you, particularly as leaders, to be playful at the right time.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I read something recently about this idea of why children, you know, are able to have just such rich imaginations and such creativity and, and it.

[C]

Haven'T gone to school yet.

[B]

Well, the person concluded that, that actually, you know, young children, and particularly are halfway in a fantasy world, you know, and, and we sort of, the school and everything sort of beats that out of them, says, no, this is reality. But, but it's an interesting thought that, that they, they're able to be so creative because they really live between reality and fantasy.

[C]

Yeah, very true, very true. No, it's true. Education is killing the most employable skill sets of the next decade. The future of education is gaming. Education will not exist as it exists today. Why? Because it deserves to die. Why? Because your children are learning the same thing I learned at school, but I went in the 70s, that's why.

[B]

Yeah, multiplication tables are not going to be really a necessary skill, are they? So I want to talk a little more about. You mentioned it briefly, but I think there's a lot more to it. This idea of river of thinking. Can you kind of talk about that metaphor and how it both informs and gets in the way?

[C]

We all got stuck in it. You know, I worked at Disney for 30 years and I was helping Lucas, Lucasfilms, Marvel and Pixar have new ideas. But the challenge is, when you're talking to anybody who's worked in one particular line of business for a long time, is they become so entrenched in what I call their river of thinking. So let me explain how that, or the danger of a river of thinking. You and I are going to go into business together and we're going to open a car wash. Tell me if you were three or four essential ingredients we must have in our car wash. Customers.

[B]

Water. Employees.

[C]

Employees. Oh, customers. Employees and water. Okay. You and I are actually, we are venture capitalists. We've been invited to open a brand new franchise of auto spas. Ooh. Ah. A spa. Now close your eyes. What would you. What have you seen in the spa? What would you like to see in your spa? What could. What could we have in the spa?

[B]

Great Music.

[C]

Okay. What else?

[B]

Very, very comfortable. Fancy chairs.

[C]

Okay. What else?

[B]

Aroma.

[C]

Aroma therapy. There we go. So you can open your eyes. I said car wash. Straight into your river of thinking. Right? Water brushes. So vacuum dryer. I said autospa, which is about the same product. We've got masseuses, we've got mani pedis. So this tool is brilliant, right? Walt Disney created it. He said, we will not have any customers in our park. We will only have guests. We will not have any employees. We'll only have cast members. And with that simple re expression of the relationship between the customer and the employees, the cast member, the guest, everybody got out of their river of thinking, created this culture of hospitality. Our river of thinking is this. How might we make more money? How might we make our quarterly results? If we continue to ask that question, we'd have put the gate price up on Walt Disney World by 3%. You'd have complained and we'd have made our quarterly results. You don't get to iterate in a post pandemic world. You innovate or you die. So instead of asking the question, we ask ourselves every day, because that's our river of thinking. How might we make more money? We. We reversed the challenge and said, how might we solve the biggest consumer pain point? Everybody knew what it was. It was called standing line. And I said, what if there were no lines? Didn't know how to solve it at the time. And we looked outside of our industry for an insight for innovation. Most of the insights for innovation come from looking outside of your industry. It's called where else? It's in the book. And we noticed there was a very small pharmacy in Tokyo, Japan, using RFID technology to enable people not to stand in line. Bing. Welcome to the world of Disney's magic band. Does it come in red or gray in the mail? Of course it does. Why? Because you're lucky. For the Star wars edition, does it come with matching merchandise? Of course it does. This is my room key. Today. I don't check in or check out of a Disney resort hotel, my theme park tickets, my reservations for my character meet and greets, and my rides. Now it's morphing towards the phone. I can pose for merchandise and have it sent to my hotel room or house, depending on how many times I touch it. I can order my food through my smartphone, walk into the restaurant that I want to walk in, sit at the table I want to sit at, and food comes fresh to me. Had we started by saying, how might we make more money? Yeah, we'd have made 3%. But by reversing the challenge and asking how might we solve and getting out of our river of thinking, say, how might we solve the biggest consumer pain point the average guest at Walt as you are today has two hours free time they didn't have six years ago. Each and every day. What has that resulted in? Record intent to recommend, records intent to return, and oh, record revenues. What do people do with their free time in Disney Parks? They spend a bucket load of money.

[B]

Absolutely. Well, Duncan, this has been a fascinating interview. I'm not sure if you interviewed me or I interviewed you, but nonetheless I think the listeners will be the better for it. I really appreciate you taking a moment to stop by. Is there someplace you'd invite people to find out more about your work and and the Imagination Emporium?

[C]

Well, they can normally find me in the Lamb and Flag pub in Covent Garden, but if I'm not there, you could go to the imagination emporium.com or Duncan Point.

[B]

Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you taking a moment to share and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

[C]

Cool. Nice to meet you.

[B]

Likewise.

[A]

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