The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast

Episode Summary: The Business Case for Play at Work

Host: John Jantsch
Guest: Piera Gelardi, Co-founder of Refinery29, Author of The Playful Way
Date: March 26, 2026

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, host John Jantsch sits down with entrepreneur and author Piera Gelardi to discuss the transformative power of playfulness in the workplace. Drawing insights from her new book, The Playful Way, Piera makes the case that play is not a frivolous distraction but a vital tool for creativity, innovation, resilience, and relationship-building within organizations. Together, they explore the science, practical applications, and cultural implications of integrating play into both work environments and marketing strategies—showing how organizations can benefit from embracing a playful mindset.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Play Is Not Something to Be Earned ([00:41–02:15])

• Piera’s Background with Play:
  • Grew up in a playful family, witnessing how playfulness helped navigate business, family challenges, loss, and illness.
  • Noted societal pressure (from schools and workplaces) to treat play as a reward, not a necessity.
• Key Insight: Integrating playfulness leads to the best results—innovation, strong relationships, and resilience.
  • "What I found in my life and my work was that integrating play created the best results." — Piera [01:52]

2. The Science Behind Play ([02:15–04:00])

• Research on Play and Play Deprivation:
  • Play deprivation leads to reduced resilience, less solution-oriented thinking, and less motivation.
  • Neuroscience links playful, experimental mindsets with the creation of new neural pathways, open-mindedness, and the ability to deal with change and failure.
  • "When we're in that play state, we're in a much more open-minded experimental framework where we can actually learn and grow." — Piera [03:29]

3. Misconceptions and Archetypes of Play ([04:00–06:19])

• Pushback Against Play:
  • Many associate play only with silliness or "goofing around."
  • Piera introduces eight play archetypes, with the "joyful jester" (the office clown) being the most controversial but powerful for diffusing tension.
  • Other archetypes include the "curious quester" (asks lots of questions) and the "visionary dreamer" (thinks beyond the immediate).
• Key Insight: Broader understanding of play styles enables leaders to value and integrate diverse forms of play into their teams.
  • "So, there are a lot of different ways to be playful. One thing I'm trying to do is educate people about these different modes of play..." — Piera [05:47]

4. Play as a Catalyst for Innovation ([06:19–08:27])

• Contrasting 'Pressured' vs. 'Playful' Ways:
  • "Pressured way": outcome-focused, rigid, fear of failure.
  • "Playful way": curious, open to new ideas, fosters divergent thinking and innovation.
• Workplace Example: Kids see many possibilities in a cardboard box; adult teams can unlock creative solutions with the same mindset.
  • "When you think about a kid, right, like they're looking at a cardboard box and they're seeing that it can be a pirate ship... That's divergent thinking." — Piera [07:58]

5. Practical Exercises to Promote Play ([08:27–11:23])

• Effective Playful Practices:
  • Physical Shake Break ("Crazy Eights"): A silly, movement-based break to reduce tension and level power dynamics.
    • "As the leader, I think it's really important to be the one that's making a fool of yourself to a certain extent... lead by example." — Piera [09:34]
  • Curiosity Questions: Asking unexpected or thought-provoking questions to shift perspectives.
  • Imagination Prompts: For example, asking, "What would need to be true for this to happen?"
    • "A question like that, like what would need to be true in order for us to do this is a great way to open up that possibility thinking." — Piera [11:18]

6. Refinery29’s Journey and Playful Culture ([11:23–12:43])

• Context: Refinery29 evolved from a blog to a global media company and event producer.
• Play in Action: Many stories and solutions in the book come from real workplace experiences at Refinery29.

7. Embedding Play: Avoiding Gimmicks and Creating Culture ([12:43–15:16])

• Pitfalls of 'Forced Fun': One-off, performative play doesn’t work.
• Long-Term Playful Culture:
  • Identify team archetypes and "play strengths."
  • Piera’s concept of "Plork"—fusing play and work in everyday small moments (whimsical meeting names, icebreaker questions, etc.).
• Key Insight: Play must be regular, varied, and authentic to teams’ personalities to enhance culture.
  • "Play is the most effective when it is integrated into the day to day and small moments." — Piera [13:26]

8. Playful Marketing and Experiments ([15:16–18:08])

• Applying Play to Marketing:
  • Adopt an experimental mindset—reduces fear of failure and invites creativity.
  • Example: Refinery29’s "29 Rooms" exhibition grew from small experiments responding to audience behaviors on Instagram.
    • Started as a small in-office event, scaled based on success, eventually became an industry-leading initiative.
    • "It came from that experimental mindset of saying, okay, what if we tried this? And what's the smallest way we can try it within our resources?" — Piera [17:44]

9. Reconnecting Adults with Play ([18:08–20:41])

• The Importance for Adults:
  • Adulthood often stifles playful instincts due to responsibility and societal messaging.
  • Reconnecting with play restores curiosity, resilience, authenticity, and joy.
  • Practical advice: revisit childhood activities that brought flow and joy—even small actions matter.
  • "Play is not the opposite of seriousness. It's what makes seriousness bearable. It's what makes you find joy in the day to day and the mundane." — Piera [20:23]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Integrating play created the best results. It created the most innovative ideas, the best relationships, and the most resilience for me to work through the problems that came up." — Piera Gelardi [01:52]
• "When we're in that play state, we're in a much more open-minded experimental framework where we can actually learn and grow..." — Piera Gelardi [03:29]
• "People have different play personalities, and it's about understanding and valuing those to fuel workplace culture." — Paraphrased from Piera [15:16]
• "Play is the most effective when it is integrated into the day to day and small moments." — Piera Gelardi [13:26]
• "Play is not the opposite of seriousness. It's what makes seriousness bearable. It's what makes you find joy in the day to day and the mundane." — Piera Gelardi [20:23]
• "It came from that experimental mindset of saying, okay, what if we tried this? And what's the smallest way we can try it within our resources?" — Piera Gelardi [17:44]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Piera’s Thesis: [00:00–02:15]
• Science of Play & Neuroscience: [02:15–04:00]
• Play Archetypes & Addressing Pushback: [04:00–06:19]
• Innovation Through Playfulness: [06:19–08:27]
• Team Exercises & Creating Playful Space: [08:27–11:23]
• Refinery29 Background: [11:23–12:43]
• Building a Playful Culture, Not a Gimmick: [12:43–15:16]
• Play in Marketing & Brand Experiments: [15:16–18:08]
• Rediscovering Play in Adulthood: [18:08–20:41]

Conclusion

Piera Gelardi and John Jantsch compellingly argue that play shouldn’t be reserved for breaks or after work is done—it’s central to creative, resilient, and innovative organizations. By recognizing individual play personalities, embedding small playful rituals, and approaching both internal culture and marketing as ongoing experiments, leaders can unlock the hidden competitive advantage of playfulness. Piera’s advice challenges listeners, especially adults, to rekindle joy, connection, and possibility at work and beyond.

For more:

• Book: The Playful Way (available April 7th, all major booksellers)
• Follow Piera on Instagram/Substack: @pieraluisa
• Website: pieragelardi.com