The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast

Episode: Trust, Storytelling, and the Future of Brands

Host: John Jantsch
Guest: Ernie Ross (founder, Ross Rethink; creator, Intangents methodology; author of Intentions: How Human Connection Creates Value between People, Brands and Ideology)
Date: October 30, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the critical role of intangible values—like trust and meaning—in modern branding, marketing, and business growth. John Jantsch interviews Ernie Ross about his new book and “Intangents” philosophy, exploring why human connection, authentic storytelling, and non-material brand assets are more valuable than ever, especially in a world deeply affected by digital manipulation and AI.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Creation and Importance of “Intangents”

[01:09 – 02:41]

• Why invent a new term?
  • Ernie Ross coined “Intangents” as a blend of “intangible values” and “the science of human connection”—defining crucial but often overlooked elements in branding.
  • “There are over 7,000 languages spoken in the world today. But the language of human connection is not one that is often taught.” (Ernie Ross, 01:41)
• Value vs. Meaning vs. Worth:
  • Ross distinguishes between market worth (what people are willing to pay), value (the meaning something holds), and their connection.
  • “Nothing in life, whether it be a physical asset or a human relationship... It only has a value because of the meaning you attribute to it.” (Ernie Ross, 03:32)

Trust as the New Brand Commodity

[02:41 – 07:39]

• Trust is more critical—and fragile—than ever.
  • In a digital age with AI-generated content, distinguishing truth is harder; suspicion is the default.
  • “Trust is the new brand commodity.” (Ernie Ross, 02:41)
• Consequences of lost trust:
  • Any brand misstep “can go viral within a fraction of seconds.”
• The “Dadscare” Dove Men’s Care campaign:
  • An example where the story—not the product—drives connection and value.
  • “It was more than that. You can't just tag a logo to the end of an ad... They launched this movement called dadscare.com, which supported paternity care for men...” (Ernie Ross, 06:01)
• Edelman Trust Barometer:
  • “85% of the market was willing to pay more premium price for a product that they believed in and would even be forgiving when there was an error in it...” (Ernie Ross, 06:53)

AI and the Limits of Artificial Connection

[07:40 – 10:19]

• AI can mimic, but not feel:
  • “Artificial intelligence... can mimic human emotions, but it cannot actually encounter and experience it.” (Ernie Ross, 08:00)
• The value of human-authored creativity:
  • Art or music’s meaning is diminished when discovered to be AI-generated.
  • “If you gave me a work of art, John, and I loved it... and you said, well, it was created by artificial intelligence. It would immediately be diminished in its value to me...” (Ernie Ross, 08:33)
  • Authenticity comes from unique, irreplaceable human creators.

The Power and Ethics of Storytelling in Branding

[10:56 – 13:27]

• Storytelling builds authentic bonds:
  • “Most of our decisions are being made by the way we feel, not by logic... It is what we’re created of—memories, memories that are made of stories.” (Ernie Ross, 11:25)
• Case Study – Coca-Cola:
  • No nutritional value, but global success via compelling stories connecting to happiness.
  • “If a product, beverage that has no nutritional value... can be sold as an embodiment of the craving for human connection... I think is the best evidence of the fact.” (Ernie Ross, 12:50)
• Manipulation vs. Positive Impact:
  • Techniques can be used for good or manipulation.
  • “If we can employ some of those and deploy some of those techniques... maybe we would push the needle forward a little bit in terms of the more noble ideals...” (Ernie Ross, 14:17)

How Small Brands Can Find Their Story and Purpose

[14:33 – 16:50]

• Three “Pillars of Purpose”:
  • 1. Who am I?
  • 2. What is my purpose?
  • 3. How will I be remembered?
  • These define a brand’s emotional architecture.
• Currency of Conversation:
  • Is the message relevant, credible, and does it resonate?
• Science of Human Connection:
  • Use techniques that make your story compelling, track trends, and adapt, much like a polyphonic instrument that plays multiple notes (polyphonia).

Cultural Nuances and Universal Truths in Branding

[16:50 – 18:46]

• Cultural differences shape brand perception and connection:
  • “Reality is really a perspective. In our offices... [there’s] an installation done by an artist... most people see a mirror, but it’s not a mirror.” (Ernie Ross, 17:08)
  • Reinforces that “we don’t see the world the way it is, we see the world the way we are.”
• Critical to tailor stories/strategy based on the audience’s frame of reference.

The Future—Why Intangible Value Rules

[18:46 – 21:05]

• Most of a company’s value is intangible:
  • Only a small fraction of S&P 500 value is in physical assets; the majority is in brand, reputation, IP, and meaning.
  • “If you sold every physical asset, you wouldn't even get to 20% of the $28 trillion...” (Ernie Ross, 19:36)
• “If I sold you the Coca Cola company... and I kept the name, I would be the one to win the game.” (Ernie Ross, 20:05)
• *Intangibles are where brand futures are built—creatively, spiritually, financially.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Trust is the new brand commodity.” (Ernie Ross, 02:41)
• “It only has a value because of the meaning you attribute to it.” (Ernie Ross, 03:32)
• “Artificial intelligence... can mimic human emotions, but it cannot actually encounter and experience it.” (Ernie Ross, 08:00)
• “If you gave me a work of art, John, and I loved it... and you said, well, it was created by artificial intelligence. It would immediately be diminished in its value to me...” (Ernie Ross, 08:33)
• “If I sold you the Coca Cola company today and I give you all the factories and all the buildings and I kept the name, I would be the one to win the game.” (Ernie Ross, 20:05)
• “We don’t see the world the way it is, we see the world the way we are.” (Ernie Ross, 17:28)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:09] – Why “Intangents” and defining intangible value.
• [02:41] – Trust as the cornerstone of brand value.
• [05:01] – Super Bowl ad example & Dove Men’s Care storytelling.
• [07:57] – The unique human edge over AI: real emotion.
• [10:56] – Storytelling as emotional connection in marketing.
• [12:00] – The Coca-Cola “happiness” case study.
• [14:53] – Three pillars of purpose: starting a brand story.
• [16:50] – Cultural perspectives and the illusion installation anecdote.
• [18:46] – The future: why intangible assets dwarf tangibles.
• [20:05] – The pure value of a brand name.

Conclusion & Resources

• To Connect with Ernie Ross or Learn More:
  • Website: intangents.com
  • Book available via Amazon, Walmart, Target, Indigo, and more
  • Masterclass and workshop programs available, validated by global institutions
• Key Takeaway:
  The future of brands lies in authentic human connection, the stories we tell, and the intangible value we create—elements that remain irreplaceably human and central to long-term success.