The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast: "Why Balance Is a Lie for Entrepreneurs"
Hosted by John Jantsch | Released on May 28, 2025
In this insightful episode of The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host John Jantsch welcomes seasoned entrepreneurs and investors Mike and Cass Lazzaro. Renowned for co-founding Golf.com and Buddy Media (later acquired by Salesforce for $745 million), the Lazzaros bring a wealth of experience from supporting nearly 100 early-stage startups and contributing over $10 billion in realized gains. The duo delves into their latest book, "Shoveling a Love Story: The Entrepreneur's Messy Path to Success," exploring the intricate realities of entrepreneurship beyond the glossy success stories.
Unpacking the Title: Embracing the Grind
The conversation begins with an exploration of the book's evocative title. Jon Jantz asks, "The metaphor is I love being an entrepreneur. It doesn't sound very fun." Mike Lazzaro responds by illustrating the daily grind of entrepreneurship:
"It's about probably 10 failures in one win a day. Right. So you're shoveling non-stop and you get that one win and that's what keeps you going. It's kind of like golf to tell you the truth." (01:53)
This metaphor highlights the relentless effort and resilience required to navigate the ups and downs of entrepreneurial ventures.
Entrepreneurship and Partnership: Working with Your Spouse
Jantz then shifts the focus to the dynamics of working closely with a spouse. He poses a common concern: "how do you guys make that work? Or I guess first I should say, do you make that work?"
Cass Lazzaro explains their success by emphasizing complementary skill sets:
"Cass is an incredible operator, very detail-oriented... I am much more of the visionary salesperson... having a co-founder who compliments whose strengths aren't necessarily your strengths and whose weaknesses you can make up for really creates a partnership where you could rely on each other." (03:39)
Mike adds that dividing and conquering tasks helps prevent disagreements:
"The times that we get into disagreements are when we are in the same lane... we realized that when you can define and conquer and you have that implicit trust... then you've got to delegate and let go." (04:33)
Their approach underscores the importance of trust and clearly defined roles in both business and personal relationships.
Debunking the Myth of Work-Life Balance
A central theme of the episode is the dismissal of the traditional work-life balance model for entrepreneurs. Jantz introduces the concept:
"You've heard that a billion times. I'm sure, as I have you lean into something you call the imbalanced life. And I actually, I've never called it that, but actually I think I'm going to agree with your concept because I think that's really what makes it work." (04:33)
Mike elaborates:
"With entrepreneurship, you have no balance... you're going to be all in. So it's the first thing you're thinking about. It's the last thing you're thinking about when you go to sleep..." (05:00)
Cass reinforces this by highlighting the necessity of prioritization over balance:
"There are trade-offs. What is the target keeps moving all the time." (06:13)
Their candid discussion offers a realistic perspective, encouraging entrepreneurs to embrace an imbalanced life as a pathway to success.
Cheat Codes for Entrepreneurial Success
Transitioning to actionable advice, the Lazzaros share key "cheat codes" from their book, starting with Focus and Transparency.
Focus
Cass emphasizes the critical role of focus in achieving business objectives:
"Priorities determine the outcome of your business... one of the reasons why entrepreneurs do not succeed is that they're not focused on the right things or they're focused on too many things." (09:58)
She advises entrepreneurs to identify and articulate their top three priorities clearly, ensuring alignment across the organization.
Transparency
Mike highlights the importance of transparent communication:
"If you're going to lead... you've got to tell them everything. The good, bad, and ugly." (10:01)
He shares how their commitment to transparency during challenging times, such as the potential bankruptcy of their acquisition partner, kept their team unified and loyal.
Navigating Uncertainty and Embracing Change
The discussion pivots to the inevitability of uncertainty in entrepreneurship. Cass states:
"It's about embracing uncertainty as something you shouldn't fear." (11:51)
She explains that thriving amidst uncertainty involves making informed, confident decisions and adapting swiftly to changing circumstances. Mike adds that seasoned entrepreneurs view uncertainty as an opportunity:
"Let's just call it uncertainty... uncertainty or even like a failed product launch as getting one step closer to the thing that's actually going to work." (13:18)
Their insights encourage entrepreneurs to develop resilience and flexibility, viewing challenges as integral to the growth process.
Lessons from Failure: The Golf.com Acquisition Debacle
A pivotal moment in their entrepreneurial journey, the acquisition of Golf.com by Chipshot.com, serves as a powerful learning experience. Mike recounts:
"We took an all-stock deal because our entire board voted for that... by March 2000, the CEO of chipshot.com called us and said they were going bankrupt... we had to tell every single employee." (13:51)
This experience taught them invaluable lessons in due diligence, transparency, and the importance of resilience. Cass adds a personal account of attempting to start a company without a trusted co-founder, highlighting the critical nature of partnership compatibility:
"I take responsibility for not going through the motions of understanding how we were going to work together... if you start a company with someone who you can't work with, it's hard to rebound from that." (16:39)
The Art of Pivoting: Knowing When and How
Jantz inquires about the indicators for pivoting a business model. Cass responds:
"We've pivoted 8, 9, 10 times... it always comes from a combination of metrics and gut feel." (17:05)
She advises entrepreneurs to continually assess key metrics and remain open to change, ensuring that their strategies align with evolving market demands and business realities.
Legacy and Philanthropy: Beyond Financial Success
Concluding the episode, the Lazzaros reflect on their desired legacy. Cass articulates their shift from personal achievements to scaling their impact:
"The next 50 years for us is about scaling our impact... help entrepreneurs build businesses and lives even bigger and better... Cycle for Survival... raised over 400 million." (19:54)
Mike adds the importance of generosity:
"If we can continue to be generous in our time and giving back to others, I think that would be great." (21:22)
Their commitment to philanthropy, particularly in cancer research, underscores a broader vision aimed at societal betterment alongside business success.
Connecting and Learning More
As the episode wraps up, Mike and Cass invite listeners to explore their work further:
"Visit shovelingshit.com... it's not just about the shoveling, it's a love story about our love for entrepreneurs." (21:32)
Their candid and relatable insights offer a refreshing take on the entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing resilience, transparency, and impactful legacy over the elusive ideal of balance.
Key Takeaways:
- Embrace the Grind: Entrepreneurship involves relentless effort and accepting frequent setbacks.
- Complementary Partnerships: Successful business partnerships, especially with a spouse, rely on complementary skills and clear role definitions.
- Reject Traditional Balance: Instead of striving for work-life balance, prioritize and manage the inevitable imbalances inherent in building a business.
- Focus and Transparency: Concentrate on key priorities and maintain open, honest communication within your team.
- Adapt to Uncertainty: View uncertainty as an opportunity for growth and remain flexible in your strategies.
- Learn from Failures: Use past setbacks as valuable lessons to inform future decisions and avoid repeating mistakes.
- Define Your Legacy: Beyond financial success, aim to create a lasting positive impact through philanthropy and empowering others.
For those interested in diving deeper into Mike and Cass Lazzaro's entrepreneurial insights, their book "Shoveling a Love Story" and their website shovelingshit.com offer comprehensive resources and guidance.