Why Branding Begins With Your Team Culture

Summary

Summary of "Why Branding Begins With Your Team Culture" – The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast

Release Date: August 7, 2025

In the episode titled "Why Branding Begins With Your Team Culture" from The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, host Sarah Nay engages in an insightful conversation with Ray Allen, the President and CEO of Pepper Shock Media. The discussion delves deep into the intrinsic link between company culture and branding, offering valuable strategies for small business owners and marketing professionals to cultivate a cohesive and authentic brand identity.

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1. The Interplay Between Culture and Branding

Ray Allen emphasizes that "your culture starts with your brand from the inside out" ([01:55]). He explains that a company's culture isn't fully controllable but significantly shapes the experience of both employees and customers. In agency settings, where culture is synonymous with the brand, maintaining a positive and aligned culture is crucial for recruitment, retention, and overall brand representation.

2. Integrating Culture into Hiring Practices

Sarah Nay shares Duct Tape Marketing’s approach to hiring, highlighting the importance of cultural alignment. "Whenever we hire someone new... we always start with the job description and we lead with here's our mission, here's our vision, here's our values" ([02:45]). This method ensures that new hires resonate with the company’s core values before delving into role-specific responsibilities. Additionally, during interviews, the focus is on identifying growth-minded individuals who align with the company’s evolving marketing landscape.

3. Establishing a Unified Culture and Brand Camp

Ray introduces the concept of "Culture and Brand Camp," a workshop designed to synchronize HR and marketing departments. "We go through culture and brand camp and do a number of exercises to work together to understand both internal and external messaging" ([03:46]). This initiative fosters collaboration, ensuring that all team members articulate the brand consistently and share ownership of the company's cultural narrative.

4. The Power of Storytelling in Building Culture

Both Sarah and Ray underscore the significance of storytelling in nurturing company culture. Ray notes, "Storytelling is such a huge part of culture... it's how culture is being able to get passed along in a generation" ([06:34]). Sharing personal and team stories not only reinforces core values but also makes the culture relatable and memorable for both employees and customers. Ray adds that involving customers through testimonials can further solidify the brand’s authenticity and trustworthiness.

5. Authenticity Over Polished Content in the Age of AI

The conversation shifts to the evolving marketing landscape, where authenticity is becoming paramount. "Authenticity is definitely, I think, more valued than some of the AI... that's just not real" ([09:05]) Ray asserts. In an era dominated by AI-generated content, genuine and human-centric storytelling stands out. Both speakers agree that imperfections and personal touches in content foster deeper connections and engagement with the audience.

6. Team Building and Employee Engagement Strategies

Ray shares Pepper Shock Media’s robust team engagement activities, ranging from monthly celebrations like "work versaries" to annual camping trips. "We do show and tell on Slack every Wednesday... and once a month now, we do" ([15:21]). These activities are designed to strengthen team bonds, celebrate individual and collective achievements, and promote a sense of community within the company.

7. Navigating Remote Culture Building

Addressing the challenges of remote work, Sarah discusses virtual culture-building initiatives such as "show and tell" sessions on Slack, where team members share personal stories or answer fun questions. Ray echoes these sentiments, highlighting the importance of maintaining team cohesion through virtual games and trivia during the pandemic ([19:36]). These efforts ensure that even remote teams remain connected and engaged.

8. Measuring the ROI of Culture Initiatives

When questioned about the return on investment (ROI) for culture-building activities, Ray emphasizes that "if you don't have a little bit of fun... you're gonna make life miserable for yourself" ([14:25]). He explains that investing in employee happiness leads to higher retention rates and, consequently, happier customers. The cost of replacing employees far exceeds the investment in fostering a positive and engaging work environment.

9. Actionable Takeaways for Building Culture-Aligned Branding

In concluding the episode, Ray offers actionable advice:

• Proactively Shape Your Culture: "Culture is going to be there whether you help guide it or not" ([20:26]). Actively shape and nurture the desired culture to align with your brand.

• Foster Cross-Departmental Collaboration: Encourage collaboration between departments to ensure a unified brand message.

• Continuously Engage Employees: Regularly implement team-building activities and open forums for feedback to maintain a dynamic and positive culture.

• Leverage Storytelling: Utilize both internal and customer stories to reinforce and communicate your brand values authentically.

• Prioritize Authenticity in Marketing: Focus on genuine, human-centric content over overly polished or generic material to enhance audience engagement.

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Connecting Further

For those interested in exploring more about Ray Allen's insights on culture and branding, you can tune into his Marketing Expedition Podcast or visit peppershock.com. Ray is also active on LinkedIn as Ray Allen and welcomes conversations about company culture and branding strategies.

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This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for businesses aiming to intertwine their internal culture with their external branding efforts, showcasing that a harmonious relationship between the two can lead to sustainable growth and a loyal customer base.

Transcript

[John Jantz]

You know, over the years, you've heard me talk a lot about marketing systems. Today I get to share something really special. My daughter, Sarah Nay, who also happens to be the CEO of Duct Tape Marketing, just released her first book. It's called Unchained Breaking Free From Broken Marketing Models and How Small Business Can Finally Take Control of Their Marketing Lead with strategy and scale with AI. I know, a mouthful, right? But it's everything we've learned taken to the next level. In fact, we're even calling it duct tape marketing 3.0. As a dad, I couldn't be prouder. But I want you to check it out at DTM World Unchained and get ready to take your strategy to a whole new level.

[Sarah Nay]

Welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is your host, Sarah Nee, and today I'm stepping in for John Jantz, and I am joined by Ray Allen. So Ray Allen is the president and CEO of Pepper Shock Media, host of the Marketing Edition podcast, and a business owner who knows what it's like to build a brand from the ground up. So welcome to the show, Ray. I'm glad you're here.

[Ray Allen]

Well, thank you so much for having me, Sarah. This is exciting. I know.

[Sarah Nay]

And fun backstory. Ray and I met online through a different group and actually figured out that we're both In Idaho, about 25 minutes away from each other, and I haven't met a ton of business owners online from Idaho, so it was really exciting to. To connect with you, Ray.

[Ray Allen]

We had to go global, to come local, right?

[Sarah Nay]

Exactly, exactly. Well, let's dive on in. We're going to focus on the topic really of branding and culture today, because that's one of your specialties, as I know. And so I. I've heard you say before, culture and brand go hand in hand. And so can you break down what does that mean exactly to small business owners?

[Ray Allen]

Well, what I always try to emphasize most is that your culture starts with your brand from the inside out. And sometimes culture can't necessarily be controllable. It's what it is, the experience that both your employees and the people who come to you for that experience of what you serve. And in an agency setting, culture is so important because it is our brand. It's who we are and how we represent what we do. And when we work with other companies that want to understand how they can continue to build and grow their culture in a positive way, in the way that they would like to see their brand exuded into the world, whether it's recruiting new employees or new customers in retention is always a huge part of it. So that's why I say culture and branding go hand in hand together for sure.

[Sarah Nay]

Yeah. And it's great. I love that thought process and what I've been doing for years at Duct Tape Marketing is whenever we hire someone new for a role within our company, we always start with the job description and we lead with here's our mission, here's our vision, here's our values. And so I want someone to read through all of that first on a job description. Then I'll get to here's the role and the tasks and all the other details because I want someone to be aligned culturally. Like that to me is one of the most important things because as you said, it helps people stick around for a long time and also represent our brand in the way we want to be represented. And then when we're going through the interview process, our first interview is always based on values. And so one of the things we're always trying to hire for is growth minded people because in the marketing space it's always continuing and evolving. And so I'm asking questions to identify if they're growth minded and then asking them skill specific questions. So that's just one of the ways that we've leaned into making culture and hiring aligned with our brand long term.

[Ray Allen]

Absolutely. And we do a variety of things, but one of the things that we set up is we call it culture and brand camp. So this one time at brand camp, we go through a process and it really is about aligning the HR roles and the marketing roles together so that they're not siloed and they're working together to create the culture and brand that they really want to be known for and have that experience that they want people to walk away from and, and feel the feelings that you want when you're in that process and going through that process. So we go through culture and brand camp and do a number of exercises to work together to understand both internal and external messaging and when everyone's singing from the same sheet of music and saying similar terminology and able to articulate that in a way that is, is mindful of how they all can own it and have ownership in their their own branding and how other people are going to perceive them because of the way that they have been able to articulate it and what experiences they want to have. And so going through that process and doing some team building exercises and some branding exercises and bringing the two sort of areas that are sometimes really siloed in companies and they don't always come together and work together, but then when we bring them together and they are in that mode of like, oh, we are in control of our own culture and we are in control of our brand that we have out there. So it's a fun exercise to go through and do that with companies to, to have them walk through those processes together and have that experience of their own together as well.

[Sarah Nay]

Yeah, I love that. And I think that gets, I'm assuming it gets buy in from the whole team and support behind the whole team. One of the things that we did fairly recently is we used to have values that John and I are, our founder identified as like our core values. And we kind of made those up on our own. And then we would like tell the team about them. We're like, that doesn't feel right. And so we did a session as a team where we had everyone identify like what they wanted the values to be. And we then and collaborated and crafted our core values together. And to me that was so much more of a rewarding but also buy in experience for the team because they were part of the process versus being. Here's our values.

[Ray Allen]

Go live by these now go do this. Yeah, yeah, go do this. Whenever you can include the team into that decision making process, they have so much more ownership in it. And to take it even a step further, having them tell stories around those values that you've selected and where maybe there's an example of something that occurred because of that value and then having them tell you about a time when. Give me an example of one of the values that you and your team came up with, Sarah.

[Sarah Nay]

Well, one of them is growth minded, like always being leaders and innovators and ahead of the game. So it's that whole idea of just like growth and always learning and evolving.

[Ray Allen]

So one of the activities that you can do just as an icebreaker to get people in the mode, anyone who cares to share, tell me about a time where this value came through. What was the occurrence, what happened that you had this growth minded, you know, mentality or somebody else can share about somebody else on the team. And now storytelling becomes this a part of the culture, right? We know back in ancient history that storytelling was how culture was, you know, being able to get passed along in a generation. We have the hieroglyphs on, you know, the walls that were, you know, drawn. And so storytelling is such a huge part of culture. No matter what kind of culture we're talking about, whether it's company culture or, you know, if it's, you know, your indigenous people and the culture, the stories that are being told are. Is the way that continues to happen. And it's really great for new people coming in to hear those stories when something has happened and you can exemplify it. And also makes people feel really good when they have an opportunity to share about others and in a circumstance that occurred that can help continue those stories.

[Sarah Nay]

Yeah, I love it. And so a lot of what you're talking about there is like storytelling as a team, as a culture. Do you take any of that storytelling and bring it, you know, as a marketing or a branding initiative as well?

[Ray Allen]

Absolutely. And where it really can shine through is when you now involve your customers and they have testimonials and you can have them share a story about the circumstances or experiences that they've had with people that they've interacted with on your team. So we know it's all about the people, sometimes more than anything else, the people that work with you. And so when you can bring that full circle and then you have stories that you can tell of the values that also shown through with your customers, your clients, then it really does start from the inside out.

[Sarah Nay]

Yeah, I love it. A lot of what's happening in the marketing space specifically right now is a lot of people are putting out a lot of content at scale because of the evolution of AI. And so one of the things that I saying, growing and importance is storytelling and being more human, but also being authentic and maybe even making some mistakes in the stuff you're putting out there because it just feels. Everything feels so polished right now. So can you touch on. Do you see storytelling and authenticity growing in importance these days as well?

[Ray Allen]

Absolutely. In fact, I just did a panel discussion and actually it was hr. The hr, sorry, Public relations and then advertising coming together. So mine was all about personal branding and I created an acronym of keeping it real and so real. Obviously, you know, being authentic and having that realness about you. Right. And then being able to extend that to others and have and share that consistently. And then, of course, authenticity and then leveraging your network to be able to share that with others and showing up and keeping it real.

[Sarah Nay]

Yeah.

[Ray Allen]

So, yeah, authenticity is definitely, I think, more valued than some of the AI that really, ad nauseam comes out. That's just not real. Right. I mean, it's artificial intelligence. So having your own spin on your own words sometimes really does help with the content that's coming out. And I see that's a shift. Everyone was kind of, oh, we, you know, we're going to use AI to replace the people, the human touch of what we're putting out there. And I really think that it's, you can tell somewhat now and I mean, it's getting really good where you can't necessarily and it's trying to write in your voice. But there's still some quirkiness about the AI. And I still say it takes hi to use AI. So human intelligence.

[Sarah Nay]

Yes, it does.

[Ray Allen]

Yeah, I love it.

[Sarah Nay]

Yeah. And I think that's what I'm experiencing on LinkedIn specifically, just because I spent a lot of time there. I'm not saying it's not happening anywhere else, but like on LinkedIn, there's just a lot of, of generic content being published right now. And so I've, you know, shifted to try to be more authentic and more human. And so I've shared posts recently that like, I shared a post last or a week or so ago that was like my desk and it was my kids, they had decorated my desk just because. And that's just, it's getting like, that human content is getting so much more traction because people are like, oh, that feels more unique and more personal than this other post that anyone could have written.

[Ray Allen]

Well, and it's true. I mean, you can just take a look at, you know, the history of what you've posted. If we post pictures of our actual team and not just stock images or, you know, if we do behind the scenes from video shoots that we're doing or if we, you know, show real people in action, we get so much more engagement and traction and follows than we do if it's just a stock image or an inanimate, you know, object. And I love being able to showcase our people. And again, it's about the culture and showing what we're doing and the volunteer activities that they're about or, you know, showing when they were little and, you know, kind of what became of them and, you know, just fun things like that are so much more, I think, engaging and authentic and real. Yeah, I agree.

[Sarah Nay]

And kind of a funny story on that. I posted, I have a new book coming out and I posted a JPEG of the COVID and luckily it hasn't gone to print yet. But someone pointed out that there was a typo on the COVID But her response to me was like, so kind. Sent me a direct message and she was like, you know what I love about this? It shows that you're human, you're not just using AI for this content. And so she actually was like, very kind. But she like appreciated a little bit of an error because everything is feeling very polished at this point. And so I thought that was kind of funny.

[Ray Allen]

I'm glad you can you that you were able to get that. No, I was like, there's always something and you've been so closely tied to it that there, you're always going to overlook something. There's always going to be something.

[Sarah Nay]

Always. And like three people on my team looked at it, but still we missed it. Of course.

[John Jantz]

You know, over the years, you've heard me talk a lot about marketing systems. Today I get to share something really special. My daughter, Sarah Nay, who also happens to be the CEO of Duct Tape Marketing, just released her first book. It's called Unchained Breaking Free from Broken Marketing Models and How Small Business Can Finally Take Control of Their Marketing Lead with strategy and scale with AI. I know, a mouthful, right? But it's everything we've learned taken to the next level. In fact, we're even calling it duct tape marketing 3.0. As a dad, I couldn't be prouder. But I want you to check it out at DTM World Unchained and get ready to take your strategy to a whole new level.

[Sarah Nay]

I talk a lot about because when I'm training marketing agencies, building and scaling a business and hiring team, I talk a lot about what we do for building culture. And so a lot of that is like we do show and tell on Slack every Wednesday and we do Happy Fridays and we have team meetings where it's just kind of fun. And so I talk about all that stuff. And sometimes I get the question of what's the ROI for all of that? Like, you're paying people to do these fun things. And so I'm curious, what would be your answer to a question like that?

[Ray Allen]

Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, if you don't have a little bit of fun and incorporate the human aspect of living and working together all the time, and we spend more time with our work co workers than we do with our spouses. Well, not in my case because I work with my spouse. But a lot of times, like, you know, if you look at how much time is spent with the people, people that you are, you know, with every day, it's your co workers. So I feel like if you are just robotic in what you're doing and not engaging and not being, you know, that team player or having being a part of the culture, you're gonna make life miserable for yourself. Right? And so I feel like having time that you can naturally and be okay with spending some of that. It is an ROI in your, you know, you're investing in your people and you're investing in them wanting to stay. Right. And that retention. And we know that when somebody leaves a company, it takes just twice as much or even more to replace them. And then all of the knowledge that they've, that has just been left behind because they've left the company. So you want to do the things that are going to help retain those people. And you know, we spend time. We also do once a month now. We do. We used to do it every week, which is a little. Okay, I get it. You know, but now we do. So it originally started out as Friday fun lunch, but then people take Fridays off. Some of us do, you know, summer Fridays off and you know, have the four, four day work week. Fine. So then we moved it to Wednesdays. So then it become lunch instead of funch. So Friday fun lunch and then lunch. And now everybody is only, I mean, all of us are all in the office on Mondays. So now it's munch.

[Sarah Nay]

I love it.

[Ray Allen]

So we once a month go, we celebrate, you know, work anniversaries, where I like to call work versaries or birthdays or something that we're celebrating. And we actually came up with some things that we always go through. So it's, it's successes and frustrations, celebrations and appreciations, new technologies or book or blog reports or any, you know, anybody that's reading a book, tell us a little bit about it or a blog or something, you know, new technology, something like that. And then a question of the day. And so we always come up with a random question, you know, what's your favorite cereal as a kid? Or what was your favorite cartoon to watch? Or you know, who are you rooting for? The super bowl. Right? I mean, so we always come up with something fun and we all participate and you know, successes and frustrations, you know, if we're in a public place, we are careful about our frustrations. But it's important to acknowledge, you know, big successes, big wins all the time. And also if there is something, you know, that is frustrating people, I want to hear about it. And it's a safe space to be able to share that if there is some sort of frustration or something that needs to be acknowledged and then we can talk about it. But. And then of course, celebrations, appreciations, and then the new technology book or blog reports is helpful because if people are learning about new things that are coming up or new tools or maybe a client wants to investigate a new tool or there's a new, you know, Adobe plugin or who knows what we're talking about it and sharing that. And it's purposeful, intentional, so that we can make sure that we cover those things and it's a fun thing to do. The other thing that we do every year, and this is one of the questions I ask when I hire people, is if they like to go camping or not or if they're a glamper or like. Absolutely not. Because every year, all of us with our spouses, our, you know, kids, pets, everybody, we go camping together as a bit. One big, huge pepper shock family. And if you're not a camper, you're probably not gonna really appreciate the culture that we've built. Yeah, I mean, it's not mandatory. I mean, you know, it has happened, but it's really important to us because we love the outdoors. And especially here in Idaho, we have all of the seasons and it's definitely, you know, we live here on purpose. We can do work anywhere. But we purposely choose to have, you know, Idaho as our back, you know, our back door. So that's a really important part of our culture to. To enjoy hiking and, you know, those types of things. And so it's fun and people look forward to it. It's, you know, what are we going to do this year? What are we, you know, are we going to go rafting? Are we going to go, you know, hiking? What are we doing? And so it's something fun. And it's always been a part of our culture since, you know, since we started. And it's definitely something that we really enjoy. And so, yeah, there's definitely things we do, the other things that we do. Christy helps our graphic designer. We do volunteer time together and we've, you know, boxed food up at the food bank. Next week we're going to go to. There's a local place called the Idaho Botanical Gardens. So we're going to get our horticulture on and bring our favorite planting tool, and we're going to go help the landscapers and do some fun things. There's. But it's just a part of the culture. And yeah, I mean, it's otherwise paid time. But, you know, I want them to be involved in the community. I want us to feel and come together as a team. And doing some things that are not your typical average workday all the time is really enriching for our people. So we want to continue to do that.

[Sarah Nay]

Yeah, that's great. And that's how, I mean, I answer that question as well. When people ask about roi, it's, you're going to retain people longer, they're going to be happier, you're going to enjoy work more. And to me, that's like the best kind of ROI you can get. So I think that's great. And I love your examples because a lot of what you shared are in person opportunities because you work in person where I run a virtual company. And so we're trying to do some of that stuff virtually, which is really interesting as well. And so we do things like I mentioned, like the show and tell on Slack. That's just like such a small thing. And all we do is we ask a random question every single Wednesday at a scheduled time, and then people answer the question. But when you're remote, you don't get time to, you know, what's your favorite movie? What'd you do this weekend? What? You know, you don't have time for, like, all of those things. And so that question, then, you know, someone might ask, what's your favorite movie? And then like, three people are like, oh, my gosh, that's my favorite movie. I can recite every line. And now they have this, like, bond that they wouldn't have had just through, like, work meetings and going through the motions.

[Ray Allen]

Yeah, I know during the pandemic, we definitely all worked remote, and I even had a couple people move out of state to go live their homes and with their families. And I can relate to trying to keep the company culture alive through zoom. And, you know, there's different things that, that, that we did. We. We played Pandemic Reindeer Games, came up with some fun things for them to do, some trivia things and things like that. But, yeah, I mean, it's important to keep your team together even if they're not in the same room or same building. Yeah, for sure.

[Sarah Nay]

Those pandemic times were weird times, weren't they? Yeah. Well, we talk a lot about a lot of great stuff today when it relates to culture and branding. If anyone's just kind of feeling stuck on this topic, how they actually create a culture and how they tie it to their branding. Are there any final thoughts or any action items you would share with them?

[Ray Allen]

Yeah, absolutely. I think the important thing to remember is that culture is going to be there whether you help guide it or not. The culture can be what you want to mold it and grow it into, or it's going to become something that you have no control over. If you don't participate in the culture that you want your company to have. And so I think if you can identify that there might be some needs in the areas of bridging the gaps between the different departments that come together and how they can work together to help build the culture that you want between HR and marketing and ops and, you know, all of the different areas that you have in a company, how can you make it to where everyone is singing from the same sheet of music and, you know, and it's all in tune. Right. You all have the same goals, goals in mind together, that they build together. So just recognizing that there is a need for that and it's an ongoing thing. It's not an overnight like, oh, well, I did a company picnic. I'm good for a while.

[Sarah Nay]

Check that box.

[Ray Allen]

Yeah, yeah. You've got to continuously build it, continuously grow it and do things to continue to have your employees engaged. And I always say if you've got happy campers, right, you're going to have happy customers. And so keep your campers happy. And, you know, at culture and brand camp, that's one thing we focus on, is happy campers then creates happy customers.

[Sarah Nay]

I love it. Well, thank you for sharing all your insights. Lots of good stuff in this episode. If people want to continue to learn from you, where can they connect with you? Online?

[Ray Allen]

So a couple different places, of course. The Marketing Expedition podcast is free to listen to on pretty much every podcast platform and then which is powered by Pepper Shock Media, our company. And you can visit peppershock.com and we're on all the social platforms, LinkedIn, all of that. So you can find me. And Ray is R H E A Allen, A L L E N. So Ray Allen and would look forward to chatting with anybody that would like to talk about their company culture and branding.

[Sarah Nay]

Awesome. Thank you so much, Ray, for being here and thank you everyone for listening to the Duct Tape Marketing podcast again. This is your host, Sarah Nae, and we will see you next time.

[John Jantz]

Hey, small business owners, let me ask you a quick question. Is your marketing actually working for you or just working you over? If you're tired of chasing random tactics and want real clarity, it's time for a strategy first approach. At Duct Tape Marketing, we help you build a marketing system you own, one that fits your business and finally puts you in control. No more chaos, no more guesswork. Just a roadmap you trust. Powered by smart strategy. And let's face it, a little help from AI today. You ready to shift from overwhelm to confidence? Head on over to DTM world. Own it. DTM world, own it.