← The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
So my guest today spent 20 years watching what separates people who keep growing from people who stall out. His answer is probably uncomfortably simple. It comes down to a stack of daily habits. And the business owners who skip them are losing ground without. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. This is Jon Janss. My guest today is John Gordon. He's written more than 30 books, including the Energy Bus, which sold over 4 million copies. Longtime listeners can go back and catch that episode, but we're going to talk today about a new release, the Power of Positive Habits. Proven strategies to Exponentially grow. Don's worked with some well known names such as the LA Dodgers, the Miami Heat, Clemson Football, the LA Rams, Southwest Airlines, and Dell works with them on how daily habits drive performance. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So, John, welcome back to the show.
- [01:05]
B
John, great to be with you.
- [01:07]
A
So you've written 30 books, as I said, on energy leadership teams. This one is all about habits. Would you say that you've gotten a little off the leadership track or is this a really a key leadership thing that you felt like you needed to tackle right now?
- [01:23]
B
I wrote this book for leaders because as a leader you need to have great habits in order to grow yourself and grow everyone that you are connected with and connected to. And so there are a lot of leadership habits actually in this book. I even thought about maybe calling it Leadership Habits. That might be a feature book that I actually write. But there are a bunch of leadership habits in there for you to lead your team. There's also team building habits. There's mindset habits, which we know that you have to have a positive mindset in order to be a positive effective leader. And then there's relational habits and this is key health habits. If you're not taking care of you and you're not strong physically, mentally, if you are not ready to take on the day, you're gonna fizzle out when you're dealing with adversity and challenges and the stress of leadership. So you need to feed yourself in order to feed others. And these are like my greatest hits. These are the habits that I've taught all these leaders over the years into one book that you can now actually pick your favorite habits and go put them into practice.
- [02:24]
A
And one of the things I really like is that, I mean there are habit books out there. Couple Charles Duard's book is really the Power of Habit, I think it's called is really a great one. Atomic Habits is one. James Clear that you know has sold millions and millions of copies. What I really like, those seem to be what I would call kind of global habits. What I really like about yours, I mean, you drill down into, you know, the habit before the habit, the thank you walk, the talk to yourself, connect before you correct. Really what I would call micro, you know, things. And so I wonder if you could maybe pick one or two and walk us through them.
- [02:59]
B
Yeah, there are 93 habits in the book, John. And people ask me like, why 93? Why not a hundred? Why not 300? But when I got to 93, I was like, well, that's all I gotta say about that. And I was like, I was like, I was done. I thought, okay, this is a good number to stop with. And these are a bunch of microhabits, as you said. The funny thing also real quick is that we asked ChatGPT what's the difference between this book and Atomic Habits? It was a really cool thing to ask and the response we got was atomic habits will help you build better habits. But my book, the Power of Positive Habits will help you build a better life. And the goal is habits that help you build a better life. Like the thank you walk. If you get up in the morning and you go take a walk in the morning and you practice gratitude, the research shows you will be flooding your brain and body with these positive emotions that uplift you rather than the stress hormones that slowly drain you and over time slowly kill you. And it creates a fertile mind that's like ready for great things to happen. And you become more resilient when you do a practice like this. So just that thank you walk is essential. Or how about the connect before you correct? Okay, I'm leading a team. I want to build great relationships, I want to build culture, I want to build buy in. How do I do that? Well, connect with your team, build those relationships, get to know them. Because how can you lead someone you don't know them, how can you motivate someone if you don't know what motivates them and connect with them, then once you do, you will have to correct, you will have to challenge. But now they know you care about them, so they'll be more open to your feedback. And now you have better engagement and, and higher performance as a result of this kind of methodology. So simple habits that actually produce big results is the key part of this.
- [04:44]
A
So you know, as I said in the intro, you work with some very large organizations, lots of people, lots of leaders. Is there anything different if you're talking to a group Lot of my listeners or small businesses, if you're talking to a group that maybe had eight people, three people, you know, how would they apply this? Or would they. Would it really apply? Exactly the same.
- [05:05]
B
Yeah. I work with a ton of entrepreneurs, a ton of small business owners, a ton of coaches. To me, when I work with Sean McVeigh and the Rams, for instance, Sean McVeigh is the coach of a team. He's got his team. He's a leader in many ways. It's a small business. So those habits, to me, for that leader, are essential because when you're leading your team, you have to show up every day. You have to be ready to lead your team. You have to bring the energy. You have to have the right mindset. You have to play, play to win, which is one of the habits. You also have to talk to yourself instead of listening to yourself, which is another habit. You need to become your own greatest encourager every day, which is another habit. And you also have to encourage your team, which is a habit, to encourage them to get the most out of them, to believe in them that they could accomplish more than they ever thought possible. So. So, yeah, in my mind, I am an entrepreneur in many ways. I guess I would be considered a small business as well. So in my mind, I'm writing for the entrepreneur, the small business owner, or the person who might lead a department or a company and want to be better themselves and bring greater energy, greater intention, greater purpose, a greater mission, and also the best version of them to their team in their organization.
- [06:19]
A
So this may sound a little bit like a sort of a meta question for somebody who's written about habits, but, you know, most people, everybody I interact with is working their tails off. Usually they, you know, they don't. I mean, their habits still fall apart, but it's not, you know, from lack of trying. Right. So how do you get in the habit of staying with your habits?
- [06:41]
B
That's a great question. Well, see, so I said specifically in the beginning of this book, this is not like these other habits book books. Those books, like Atomic Habits, tries to help you create habits that stick. And it doesn't talk about the habit, it talks about how to make habits stick. Right. My thought process is, let's give you a great habit that you can do. Let's make it so simple and practical that you'll actually do it. Like walking after meals. You start walking after meals, you're going to digest your food better. You're going to have better metabolic processes, you're going to feel healthy. Healthier, you're gonna have more energy. It's just gonna improve every area of your life. As you have more energy, as you feel better, it's gonna make you more productive, you're gonna be a better leader. So these are the habits that are gonna elevate and exponentially grow you. You will grow so much from these habits and then from there you're gonna grow others. So how do we make them stay? By making them practical, making them simple, making them addictive in terms of you do it, you feel better, and then you want to do it over and over again. And I also created a positive habits developer which is free. So when you buy the book, you actually get the positive habits developer. This is where you put in your top three habits and then it gives you a customized 30 day plan to put these habits into practice. And what I would do also from a practical standpoint, I'd read the book. There's 93 habits. I would pick my top 10, write down your top 10, then I would pick your top five, three, and then I would pick your top one and start with one, master one, and then when you're done with the one, then add the second one, then add the third. Okay, I've got three great habits under my belt now. I'm feeling so much better. My life is changing. I'm improving it in these ways, which is what I did, by the way, over 20 years ago. I actually did this very thing that changed my life. It's why I wrote this book, because I know how habits impacted me. I know they'll impact other people. And then as you do these three, then you go towards the 10. And that's really a very practical way to make these habits work and stick. But yeah, if it's not fun, if you don't feel good, if you allow distractions to get in the way, if you don't make this a priority, I don't care how great the habit is, it will be pointless if you don't put this into practice. And here's one of my leadership principles. Principles inform, practices transform. So it's going to be the practices that transform you.
- [09:04]
A
So you, you already kind of gave the. I was going to ask you about the. What do you tell that person that wants to do all 93? You pretty much already said, like, I've
- [09:13]
B
got to do all 93 to have a great life. No, if you just pick one habit, one habit that changes your life, guess what? That's enough for me. The thank you walk in this book. I think it's Habit number two is the one habit that changed my life the most. And if I only did that one habit, my life would still be so much better. Now I'm now doing dead hangs, which I wrote about in the book. Because of this book, I'm now doing them. I'm also squatting like a child based on this book and doing the research for it, which has really impacted my health and flexibility. It's an incredible habit. Breath work, which is, again, make breath work for you is another habit. Again, key there. I'm lifting weights, which I feel better and stronger than ever, which is a habit. So this are habits that I've added to my life. But, yeah, I don't want you to do all 93. I want you to do the ones that actually you're going to do that work for you, and those are the ones that will stick. If you try to pick a habit you don't really want to do and you don't like, and it feels like torture, you're not going to stick with it. So it's not going to be a. It's going to be a negative habit at that point, not a positive habit.
- [10:17]
A
That's like a lot of marketers or. Or business owners that I work with. You know, when social media first came along and we were all saying, oh, you got to do social media, I hate social media. I don't want to be on social media. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to suck at it. So I would literally say, then let's not do it, because it will be so poorly done that it will actually, as you said, be a negative. You've worked with some coaches, probably some, you know, that have gone through losing seasons, some CEOs that have, you know, really come under a lot of stress. Do you find that certain habits go out the window, you know, kind of quickly in those circumstances, and you find yourself saying, we got to double down on this one again.
- [10:53]
B
Yes. Happens all the time. You lose your way, you lose your habits. You actually stop doing the thing you need the most, and you become very focused on trying to survive instead of thrive. I even see it with my wife. She gets so busy with our publishing company. She started Gordon Publishing, and she runs it. It's her thing. And she gets so busy and so focused on it that she stops exercising that she's working all morning and she's still in her nightgown at noon. And I'm like, honey, you got to get outside and get walking first thing in the morning. Then come back and get your work done. But I see people get so tunnel focused on the work that they actually don't take care of themselves and they don't put those habits into practice. They don't stay with them. So good habits go out the window during stressful times and they actually need to be our foundation during those stressful times so we stay strong in the storm.
- [11:45]
A
One of the things you, you started this with the idea of a positive mindset. And I, you know, that's certainly a theme that runs through a lot of books on, on habits, on leadership, on life. Where do you fall in terms of the idea of staying positive, but also balancing that with, with being honest about what's actually broken. Because sometimes, you know, we gotta, we can't just wish our way through, through a storm. Right. With positive energy or positive thinking. How do we kind of balance those two things?
- [12:13]
B
John? That's the question I get all the time from everyone. It's so funny how everyone brings that up. And I always want to respond because I'm from New York and I want to say, when did being positive mean you're not being honest? I've never gotten that, you know, in my life. And yet so many people bring that up. Here's where we go with this. Being positive doesn't mean you ignore reality. It means you maintain optimism, belief and faith in order to create a better reality. It means you address the challenge, you confront the situation, you deal with the issue at hand, and then because of your positivity, because of your optimism, because of your belief, you're able to navigate it and find a way forward. You're able to overcome, rise above and then create success because of your positivity. Pessimists do not change the world. I've never met a pessimistic entrepreneur who succeeded. Those optimists believe in their product. They believe in what they're selling. They believe in their invention and what they rate. They believe in their business. You have to be if you want to be successful. But are you going to face challenges? Yeah. You're going to face setbacks and obstacles? Yes. So confront the reality. Yes, this stinks. Yes, this is hard. But how do we as a team and organization overcome and find our way forward towards success? And, and I think every entrepreneur, every business leader has to ask themselves that question. And you need both. You need the ability to look at the challenge, but find a way around it or through it or above it.
- [13:45]
A
So I'm sure you work a lot with lots of people that, that even just like injecting a few of the things that you're teaching, you know, changes them dramatically. But you also probably work with people that then plateau. That's very common in, in business and in life in general. How do people push through plateaus? Or what do you see the people that just continue to grow? What do they do differently than those that maybe kind of plateau even if they've grown some?
- [14:09]
B
Yeah, that's such a great question. The people who plateau often have a constraint that is holding them back. They have a, a wound or a leadership gap that they're not dealing with. And where I'm strongest is helping leaders understand where their leadership gap is, where their wound is, where they're being constrained. And we work through that restraint, we work through the constraint, we work through the challenge, we work through the wound that is holding you back. And then once we do, belief system, through perspective, through understanding, through healing, then you go to the next level. And my greatest work is I have a circle where it's a bunch of young and old and you know, med medium size entrepreneurs, big entrepreneurs. It's a mixture of all these entrepreneurs who I work with and I mentor. And one thing I've seen is they all grow. And they all grow because we confront the reality of the challenges. We also deal with the issues at hand and we grow mentally. And I would say we also grow spiritually. And you've got to increase. I believe you have to grow spiritually to be able to take on the challenges in this world. Your capacity for leadership has to grow because if you don't, your problems become greater than your capacity. But if you grow your capacity, the leadership, you will become greater than your problems. And to me that's the key.
- [15:29]
A
Entrepreneurs who a lot of listeners would identify as such, I think, I think reactivity is sort of the part of the job's description. Like every week is different. You have one habit that you call mastering the morning. Would you say that is probably the key habit to, to kind of calming that week to week reaction?
- [15:49]
B
Yeah. Start in the morning off, right. Building a set of habits though, whether it's the morning, middle of the day, evening, that become your foundation, that become your rock, allow you to be strong when life is wavering, when you have so many things coming your way, where you are often being knocked off your balance and off your footing, you gotta find your footing back and your stronghold back. And that comes from your habit. So mastering the morning, getting up, thinking something positive, reading something positive, and doing something positive every morning will be a great foundation for you to Start the day. And once you have that, you've already created success first thing in the morning, and now you're ready to create more success for the rest of the day. You're already a success when you got out. Now you're basically cruising through the day and you're stronger because you're going to get hit along the way. You're going to face some punches and some left jabs and right hooks, and you've got to be able to face those and move through them. And the only way you do that is by having a rock solid foundation.
- [16:54]
A
Trick question. Have you ever been miserable or stuck at any time in your life?
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B
Yes, big time. Totally. I think everyone.
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A
You write about it pretty openly, um, as part of that.
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B
So.
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A
So I set you up there with that. You can tell the story you like. But what I was really leaning towards it. Is there a habit that you, because of that you've had to actually continue even after teaching this for 20 years to work on, because it hasn't come naturally to you?
- [17:21]
B
Well, one, I'm not naturally positive. And so I have all these positive mindset tips in the book. Because thinking is a habit.
- [17:29]
A
Yeah.
- [17:30]
B
And so you're thinking will determine what you create in your life. Your thoughts, your beliefs are that powerful. And as someone who grew up in a Jewish Italian family. A lot of food, a lot of guilt, John, you know, you deal with all that negativity. I grew up with a very negative mindset. So over the years, you know, I got stuck because of my negativity. I got stuck because of my fear. I got stuck because of my anxiety. My wife even almost left me at 31 years old. And I began researching ways I could be more positive. I began doing some habits that changed my life. And the thank you walk was one of those habits. And I still do it to this day because it changed my life. It got me thinking differently. So what I would say is, yes, I still have to continue to work on my mindset, my positive thinking, because when things happen, I want to go towards a negative, and I have to continue to feed myself with a positive mindset and positive thoughts. And they're essential. And I know this. It's not Pollyanna. Like, I'm someone who is naturally. My dad was a New York City police officer, undercover narcotics. So I get the reality of negativity in this world, and it's. It really is about feeding yourself every day. And I got to tell you, my mindset now, those habits have now become a part of me. Like, I naturally go in the positive direction, whereas for years I went towards the negative side of things.
- [18:56]
A
Well, John, I appreciate you taking another chance to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast to to share with our listeners. Is there some place you'd invite people to find out more about your work and obviously find out more about your latest book?
- [19:08]
B
Yeah, for the book, just go to Power of positive habits book.com that's power of positive habits book.com when you go there, you'll see if you get the book. We give you that free Positive Habits developer to help you create your 30 day plan, which is really cool. We also give you another action plan that you get to use to put these habits into practice. And you can also go to my website, john gordon.com j o-n gordon.com find me there or anywhere on social media. I love to hear from people, so make sure you reach out, connect with me and say hello.
- [19:40]
A
Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you stopping by and hopefully we'll run into you one of these days out there on the road.
- [19:45]
B
Thank you, John. I appreciate all that you do.