Blank Check History: When Scholars Hit the Jackpot

Summary

The Duncan & Coe History Show: Episode Summary

Episode: Blank Check History: When Scholars Hit the Jackpot
Release Date: March 13, 2025
Hosts: Duncan & Coe
Transcript Reference: [00:00] – [26:37]

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Introduction: The Million-Dollar Historical Question

In the final episode of Season Zero, titled "Blank Check History: When Scholars Hit the Jackpot," hosts Mike Duncan and Alexis Coe delve into a thought-provoking hypothetical scenario: "What would you do for history if you won the lottery?" This question serves as the catalyst for an engaging discussion on the future of historical scholarship and the passions that drive historians.

Mike Duncan opens the conversation with enthusiasm, acknowledging Alexis's aversion to hypothetical questions but highlighting her pivotal role in suggesting this intriguing premise. Alexis Coe elaborates on her discomfort with paradoxical scenarios, such as "Would you kill baby Hitler?" Instead, she presents a more optimistic vision: using lottery winnings to advance the study and preservation of history in meaningful ways.

"I would found and fund a museum dedicated to the history of American history. I would ask two questions of equal importance. The first is obvious, what happened. And the second is how did we come to believe that this is what happened?"
— Alexis Coe [02:00]

Hosts' Vision: Museum of the History of American History

Alexis proposes the creation of The Museum of the History of American History, a pioneering institution dedicated not just to historical events but to the historiography—the study of how history is written and understood. She emphasizes the importance of examining how historical narratives are constructed, challenged, and reshaped over time.

"It's a museum for sure, but it's also a vibrant research center. So it's like a think tank in a museum because that is what's most important. Good history is rarely well funded if it's. I mean, if it's funded at all."
— Alexis Coe [02:40]

Mike Duncan echoes this sentiment, highlighting their shared passion for understanding the evolution of historical narratives. He adds depth by discussing the dynamic and ongoing nature of historiography, stating that history "never ends and historiography never ends."

"History does not exist in the past. We study the past, but history itself exists in the present."
— Mike Duncan [09:07]

Guest Contributions: Scholars’ Aspirations for Historical Advancement

To enrich the discussion, Duncan and Coe introduce four esteemed guests, each sharing their unique visions for transforming the field of history with substantial funding.

1. Rory McGovern: Time-Traveling Telephone Booth

Rory McGovern, head of the American and Military History departments at West Point, brings a creative twist to the lottery question. He whimsically suggests funding the recreation of the telephone booth from "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure", envisioning it as a real-time machine for historians to interact directly with historical figures.

"Who among us doesn't want to go and meet the people that we've studied as historians? ... Bonus points if Keanu Reeves could be our time traveling history buddy."
— Rory McGovern [12:12]

Rory further refines his idea by proposing a grant program to support schools in conducting immersive history trips, complete with leading historians as guides. This blend of imaginative and practical approaches aims to deepen students' engagement with history.

"I think I would want to establish a grant program that facilitates schools taking robust history trips and be able to pay for a leading historian on the subject that they are studying to accompany them."
— Rory McGovern [13:55]

2. Marcia Chatlin: Museum of 80s and 90s Sitcoms

Marcia Chatlin, a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and professor at Pennsylvania, takes a nostalgic angle. She envisions a museum dedicated to 1980s and 1990s sitcoms, particularly focusing on episodes funded by the Ad Council that addressed social issues like drunk driving, eating disorders, and stranger danger.

"I would devote an entire museum to very special episodes of 1980s and 1990s sitcoms... an entire museum of this very formative style of television from my childhood."
— Marcia Chatlin [15:28]

Marcia's concept highlights the role of popular media in shaping societal norms and historical understanding, offering visitors a chance to explore the intersection of entertainment and social advocacy.

3. Emily Tamkin: Researching the Jewish People's Party

Emily Tamkin, a freelance journalist and contributing columnist at the Forward, proposes a focused historical exploration of the Jewish People's Party (Folks Parti). Established post the 1905 Russian Revolution, the party played a crucial role in advocating for Jewish cultural and social autonomy.

"Given a whole bunch of money, I would... fund research into the Jewish People's Party... providing funding for books and papers and to go through not only the political history, but the way in which that political history overlaps with intellectual production."
— Emily Tamkin [18:05]

Emily's initiative aims to shed light on a lesser-known facet of Jewish political history, emphasizing the importance of uncovering and preserving obscure yet significant historical movements.

4. Christine Cassipudi: Musical Theater-Based History Museum

Christine Cassipudi, co-founder of the Footnoting History podcast, brings an artistic dimension to historical study. She envisions a museum experience that merges musical theater with historical artifacts, allowing visitors to walk through history chronologically via performances and exhibits.

"It would be a blend of musical theater and historical artifacts... There could be live performances. It would be awesome. I promise."
— Christine Cassipudi [21:06]

Christine's concept integrates performance art with historical education, offering an immersive and interactive way to engage with past events and their cultural representations.

Synthesis: Unifying Themes and Future Reflections

Throughout the episode, a unifying theme emerges: the dynamic interplay between historical narratives and their presentation. Whether through museums, media, or immersive experiences, each guest emphasizes the importance of not just preserving history but actively engaging with and reinterpreting it to foster a deeper understanding.

Alexis Coe aptly summarizes this sentiment:

"We're all just trying to show that history isn't a static set of facts. It's living, it's breathing, it's constantly evolving, and it's a narrative that continues to shape our present and will shape our future."
— Alexis Coe [23:13]

Mike Duncan concurs, highlighting the personal passion that drives these scholarly projects and the potential impact they can have on public engagement with history.

"Any opportunity to get somebody with some funding and some direction and some ability to really create something that is deeply meaningful to them... comes through for whatever the audience is, who's going to then be taking it all in."
— Mike Duncan [25:07]

Conclusion: Embracing Passion-Driven Historical Exploration

As the episode draws to a close, Duncan and Coe reflect on the diverse and passionate ideas presented by their guests. They acknowledge the significance of passion projects in the academic world and express optimism about the future possibilities these envisioned projects hold for enriching historical scholarship and public understanding.

Alexis Coe extends gratitude to all participants and listeners, hinting at the continuation of their endeavors beyond Season Zero.

"Thank you to our listeners for your support and your patience and your grace. And thank you to today's guests, Rory McGovern, Marcia Chatlin, Emily Tamkin, Christine Cassipudi."
— Alexis Coe [26:17]

Mike Duncan concludes the session with enthusiasm for future projects and collaborations, encapsulating the episode's essence of passion, innovation, and dedication to advancing the field of history.

"If whoever Bezos is listening does actually want to pump money into this, that would be fantastic."
— Mike Duncan [10:35]

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Key Takeaways:

• The intersection of historiography and public engagement is crucial for evolving historical narratives.
• Passion-driven projects, whether imaginative or focused, can significantly impact historical scholarship and education.
• Integrating diverse mediums—such as museums, media, and theater—enhances the accessibility and relatability of historical studies.
• Collaborative efforts and substantial funding can transform historical research and its dissemination to the public.

This episode of The Duncan & Coe History Show serves as a compelling exploration of how historians envision leveraging resources to deepen our understanding of history and its ongoing influence on society.

Transcript

[Mike Duncan]

Hello and welcome to season zero of the Duncan and Company History Show. I'm Mike Duncan, My co host is Alexis Ko, and we are two far flung history buddies. And this is our wide ranging archival mix of a show.

[Alexis Ko]

This is actually the final episode of season zero, our greed experiment, with an emphasis on experiment.

[Mike Duncan]

And today is no exception. The final episode we're doing here is on a hypothetical question. What would you do for history if you won the lottery? Which is ironic because Alexis hates hypothetical questions.

[Alexis Ko]

I am not a fan.

[Mike Duncan]

But you suggested this one.

[Alexis Ko]

I did suggest this one, but it's a yes and it's a no because I have an aversion to paradoxical time travel scenarios like would you kill baby Hitler? But what I proposed is something more joyous. It is. I mean, more joyous than killing a baby dictator, which is essentially future focused fan fiction.

[Mike Duncan]

Future focused fan fiction.

[Alexis Ko]

Future focused fan fiction.

[Mike Duncan]

Okay, so the million dollar question, I mean, maybe literally the million dollar question or the billion dollar question is what would you do for history if you won the lottery?

[Alexis Ko]

I would need the billion. A million would not go very far.

[Mike Duncan]

Right? A million is not going to do it these days.

[Alexis Ko]

No. So I have always known what I would do. I would found and fund a museum dedicated to the history of American history. I would ask two questions of equal importance. The first is obvious, what happened. And the second is how did we come to believe that this is what happened?

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. And this is. This is something we share, is this. This love of the history of history and how our historical understanding has been shaped by historians and historical practices. Not just what events happen, but how do we tell them to ourselves.

[Alexis Ko]

Yeah, I'm still working on a good title for that. I think right now I have the Museum of the History of American History, which is, it doesn't roll off the tongue, but it would essentially do that. It would look at how we've constructed and reconstructed our historical narratives. So we'd look at how interpretations of events have evolved, how they've been challenged over time, and if those challenges changed our interpretation of events. So how this impacts our current understanding of American history. So it's a museum for sure, but it's also a vibrant research center. So it's like a think tank in a museum because that is what's most important. Good history is rarely well funded if it's. I mean, if it's funded at all.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. TBD going forward.

[Alexis Ko]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[Mike Duncan]

Huh? Yes. So can you give us an example of the kind of thing you're talking about here?

[Alexis Ko]

I Mean, there's a very easy example, I think, for Americans. They may not know his name, but they know his story. Parson Weems, the progenitor of presidential fan fiction and his fabled Cherry tree story. Washington could not tell a lie, which is a very blatant lie. And yet it's a lie that really took. And in the beginning, it took for a few reasons. Right. So I would start the story this way, which is that Weems, he's not like some rogue fabulist, right? He was the vanguard of a nascent biographical tradition which is totally unencumbered by any kind of standard. There are no scholarly standards, and there won't be for at least 100 years. So the work of biography, the study of history, is all relatively recent. And the question isn't, I hope, whether or not George Washington could tell a lie, but rather why Americans at that time needed those myths in the first place. So why were we so desperate for this founding father figure who could have this superhuman honesty? Which leads me to the second point, which is that it's bigger than Weems. It's bigger than George Washington. It's about this relationship between popular imagination and history, because you know how they always say history is written by the victors, and I'm not sure that's true. It's definitely written by the first responders, who often appeared to be the victors of their era because they have the means and. And the access to respond. So imagine if Washington's story had been written by one of the people he enslaved, instead of a hagiographic pastor who wanted to write a book that would sell, by his words, like flaxseeds. So how different would our founding mythology look? And then that's the third point. Who embraced it. So let's not forget the audience. A fledgling nation, it's hungry for heroes. It craved these kinds of heroic stories, and Weems serves them up. They devour them. So the museum would explore that symbiotic relationship between historical narratives and national identity.

[Mike Duncan]

And so this is a story that starts with Weems. And when is Weems writing again? Like, what was his era?

[Alexis Ko]

The year after Washington died. So I think the first volume was published, you know, in 1799 or 1800.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. Okay, so this is like, right around 1800. And then tracing this myth and other myths that Weems kind of inserted into the historical record and then ending what today here in. In the 21st century with you, presidential biographer of Washington, Alexis Goh.

[Alexis Ko]

I mean, for. For right now. Yes. I can't really point to another Washington biography that that would be good to punctuate this story on. But I think that that's the whole point is I would ensure that wasn't going to be the case for very long because I would pour this unprecedented amount of money into grants for meticulous scholarship. That's the engine room of this entire enterprise. So in this museum, we're not just displaying history, we're like actively interrogating it. How it's being produced, how it's being consumed, how it's being reimagined over time.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. And then you are, and I am. And historians who are working today are like a part of that process that is a never ending process. Right. We're never going to reach like, a total conclusion because, like, history never ends and historiography never ends.

[Alexis Ko]

No. And that's exciting. It's always in contention. So I want to just like, shake that cherry tree and see what falls out.

[Mike Duncan]

Oh, shake the cherry. Very nice. Very nice.

[Alexis Ko]

Thank you.

[Mike Duncan]

Do you think this can change minds?

[Alexis Ko]

I don't know. I mean, it's not like I haven't told this story before, and it has changed some minds and not others, But I don't know if I can predict that. I don't know if I can answer that yet. Because there's no museum that's looking at the history of American history, a mirror to our national psyche in this way where history isn't some, like, inert subject. It's a living, breathing entity with these very real world consequences. It shapes our politics and our morals and our identity as a nation.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. And then this would, you know, like, where we're at right now is not just that we're not studying historiography or the history of history. Like, we're just gutting history departments left and right. And so far as anybody can tell, right now, they're what they're like abolishing the Department of Education.

[Alexis Ko]

Right. It might be where children go to learn. I mean, I don't want to. I don't know if I'm going to win the lottery because. Cause I. I can't remember the last time I bought a lottery ticket, but maybe I'll sit next to, like, Mackenzie Bezos on an airplane very soon because this is. This thing needs to get built. We need to break ground.

[Mike Duncan]

I think when we were first talking about this episode, it was all like, very theoretical and fun. And now it almost feels like, what would I do with a billion dollars that, you know, like, just invest in history? Because all funding is being pulled right.

[Alexis Ko]

But I think that's the thing. It's not just that all funding is being pulled. It's that, you know, this kind of history that is anything but celebratory. That's the word that is used right now on every government website. As far as looking forward for America's 250th, which is happening, starts in July. It'll go for a year. There is this comfort in sanitized history where our ancestors were always on the right side of the moral ledger. But that story is not only wrong, it's. It's boring. And when a historian comes along with a well researched, like, receipts in hand narrative that exposes the darker, messier truths that we've conveniently forgotten, I think that's where it gets actually really interesting. And so this isn't just an academic exercise, right? We're. We're still grappling with these deep seated divisions today. And so we have this choice. We can keep clinging to our comforting myths, the ones that are really vague, or we can face the music. And I'm not saying that we should flagellate ourselves over past atrocities we didn't personally commit, which seems to be a real fear for some people, and I don't think anyone has ever said that. But if we want to chart a course to a better future, we need to understand what truths we've hidden and why. So it's like, it's like family therapy for an entire nation. But it's edifying, it's uncomfortable, it's necessary for growth. So I guess my museum would also have, like, a lot of couches where we can all sit down and have these difficult conversations.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, I mean, this is, this is a great idea and wasn't even far off of, like, what my idea would have been for all of this, because, like, I too, am like, obsessed with how we form these historical narratives and how, like, one of the points that I always make to people is that history does not exist in the past. Right. Like, we study the past, but history itself exists in the present. And we are sort of the repositories of, of all past historical narratives that have come down to us. And then we have to process it, and then people down the line will take what we have done and process it for, for their times. And, you know, something like this, actually directly engaging with that part of history, I think would be enormously beneficial for society. And so I wholeheartedly endorse this. And if whoever Bezos is listening does actually want to pump money into this, that would be fantastic.

[Alexis Ko]

Yes, but it's a. It's a great idea. I agree. I'm glad that we have both had it.

[Mike Duncan]

But this is not the only thing that can be done for history with like, millions or billions of dollars. And to help us explore what else could be done, we have gone out and asked people what they would do for history. People working in the field. So we've brought in four guests to answ that question for us and. And then we'll talk about it.

[Alexis Ko]

I'm really excited by this because they're all so different. First up is Rory McGovern, a friend of mine who runs the American and military history departments at West Point.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting this one.

[Alexis Ko]

Yes, which is why I also have to preface this by saying these are Rory's views and Rory's views alone. They are not West Points.

[Rory McGovern]

This is a really interesting question. And if I'm completely unconstrained by amount of money or our current understanding of the time space continuum, I think I would put the lottery money towards researching and recreating the telephone booth from Bill and Ted's Excellent adventure. Because who among us doesn't want to go and meet the people that we've studied as historians? We've all encountered those archival brick walls where we're flummoxed. We don't know why they think what they think, and the documents in front of us and the evidence doesn't really tell us. So it would be great. Excellent. Bill and Ted would say if we could go back and just ask them. Bonus points if Keanu Reeves could be our time traveling history buddy.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, so that's definitely not what I expected the guy who runs the American and Military History at West Point to say. I mean, God bless him. Bill and Ted's Excellent adventure is one of the greatest movies of all time. And it would be great to have a time machine. Like so many historical questions could be answered if we had a time machine there. There is stuff that we can just never have access to and never know and people that we can never interact with. So I am fully on board with getting a time traveling phone booth. And also, like, I'm not really worried about changing the timeline at all because I have my own theories about time travel. And I just think that if we get a time machine and you go back into the past, that's already happened. It's already baked into reality. So there's not really any worry about changing history because all of this will have already happened.

[Alexis Ko]

Okay, I'm not even going to touch that debate But I do love the Bill and Ted's excellent adventure perspective. I haven't watched in a really long time, but as I recall, it was about exploring not just exactly what happened, but what is going on in a general sense. So considering what it means to be a person of historical significance at the time, rather than arriving with, like, a specific, bold name in mind. So I applaud Bill and Ted always for being, you know, so open minded. And I love, I love Bill and Ted's. And I love, I love Rory. He's the sweetest, sweetest, very, very white man. And he's also got combat training, which means that he is perfectly comfortable time traveling. I'm a woman. I don't have any sort of combat training. I'm pretty nervous about time travel, which, of course, Rory anticipated. And he included a second idea.

[Rory McGovern]

If we have to think a little more realistically, I think I would want to establish a grant program that facilitates schools taking robust history trips and be able to pay for a leading historian on the subject that they are studying to accompany them. I think that would be amazing. I mean, I know I personally am always moved by history, but I'm moved more when I'm able to show up and consider it in the place where it happened. And I like to use the money to give students that kind of experience, especially if we can match them up with leading experts in the field. And if in a perfect world, we could combine both, maybe we get the grant to send the schools through the telephone booth and really experience it where it happened.

[Alexis Ko]

Obviously, everyone loves this idea. There's nothing better than an informed tour guide. Students should travel. When I have guest lectured at West Point, they have been. They've just been my favorite students. They're the most intellectually curious, they're responsible, they're engaged. They obviously care about the country and the country's history. So I'm in. I would be one of these tour guides, or I would just take this tour. The next person who is joining us is Marcia Chatlin, another friend of mine, winner of the Pulitzer Prize for history, a professor at Pennsylvania. This is another unexpected suggestion.

[Marcia Chatlin]

Given a whole bunch of money, I would devote an entire museum to very special episodes of 1980s and 1990s sitcoms. As a Xennial, I watched so many episodes that I think were underwritten by the ad council about drunk driving, about eating disorders, about stranger danger. And I would love to curate a museum that just talks about what were the various lobby groups that got on the ad council agenda that convinced TV writers to write these Episodes I would love to see just entire walls of televisions showing clips from TV shows that warned you about kidnapping, or episodes about fire safety, or episodes about the dangers of alcohol. I think that the use of television for social norming is really, really distinct for people my age who grew up in the ages of the after school specials, as well as the use of teen television stars to tell students not to do drugs or not to smoke. So I would do an entire museum of this very formative style of television from my childhood.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean, that's the age that I was growing up in. I know all of those sitcoms that she's talking about. I was bathed in whatever messaging I was getting. Being partly raised by the TV in the 1980s and 1990s, I think it's.

[Alexis Ko]

A genius because it acknowledges as well that our historical understanding isn't just formed in classrooms or museums. It's shaped by what we binge watch, what ads we see, what characters come to be our cultural touchstones, and how the Department of Commerce and other places that might not even exist anymore impact our understanding of our country. So by studying these shows, we're not just analyzing entertainment. We're dissecting the very fabric of our social evolution. And I. I think that Marcia is so good at contextualizing these kinds of, like, high, low concepts and marrying them and showing us that we really need to integrate so many things in the way that we study history and then Europe. The next two are your friends, okay?

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, the next two are my friends. And we're going to start with Emily Tamkin, who's a freelance journalist and a contributing columnist at the Forward.

[Emily Tamkin]

Were I to win the lottery and with this money could fund a history project, I would want to fund research into the Jewish People's Party, or Folks Parti. It was founded after the Russian Revolution of 1905, which was also a year of many a pogrom. And the reason that I think the Jewish People's Party is so interesting, even though it's perhaps less well known than, obviously than Zionism or the Bund and other movements that came out around the same time, is that it was a national movement, but a spiritual national movement. In other words, it believed that the Jewish nation was one that was spiritually distinct, culturally distinct, artistically distinct. It was part of this. This idea of autonomism, which is that Jews had to keep for themselves where they were, a degree of social, cultural autonomy. Its main founder is this gentleman by the name of Simone Dubontov, who himself had a really interesting history and story. You know, it was a party in, in Lithuania and Poland did not survive the Holocaust. And I think that I would try to use this money to, you know, providing funding for books and papers and to go through not only the political history, but the way in which that political history overlaps with intellectual production, for lack of a better word of the time. Right. So historical writings and art and stories.

[Mike Duncan]

So the thing I love about this is really digging into something that is just like this crazy obscure. Like this stuff does matter and we should learn about these things. And every part of history should have an opportunity to have a light shown on it, even if it doesn't have, like enormous commercial appeal. And so I love that Emily grabbed just this like, incredibly obscure group and just wants to dive in on them, you know, with both feet.

[Alexis Ko]

What's funny to me about this idea is that I think it's great and I also think it's the most applicable right now. I mean, I actually think all of them are, with the exception of the time travel and, you know, actually traveling to other places. But Marcia's idea could be an exhibition in a, you know, a museum of moving images. Right. And then Emily's could be a special exhibition at a Jewish museum because it reveals these larger truths about immigration and assimilation and the evolution of identity. So it's like using a microscope to understand the cosmos. Sometimes the smallest details tell the biggest story. So it seemed when I was listening to it. Yes, it's very specific. I didn't know a lot about it, but I could see it. I could see buying a ticket to a museum right now to go learn about it.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, I like the way you put that. Using a microscope to study the cosmos. Yeah, there's something in that. Next up is Christine Cassipudi, who is a founding member of Footnoting History, a short form history podcast that focuses on the obscure and intriguing and has been around for a very long time. So this is Christine's suggestion.

[Christine Cassipudi]

Something you need to know about me is that I've seen thousands of professional theater performances. And growing up, Broadway musicals were how I first engaged with many historical topics. For my project, I want to create a museum experience that allows you to walk through history via musical theater. It would be a blend of musical theater and historical artifacts. You would walk through it in chronological order so you could walk through rooms featuring musicals like 1776, the Civil War, Bonnie and Clyde, the Scottsboro Boys, which is about a group of black men accused of raping two white women in the 1930s and Allegiance, which is about Japanese internment in the US during World War II. The result would be an exploration of eras of joy and progress alongside those of hardship, despair, and mistreatment and injustice. It would emphasize critical examinations of both art and historical fact. Look at the way history is documented as it unfolds, as well as how later artists choose to tell the stories for a modern public in as many rooms as possible. There would be displays of Broadway costumes next to real historical clothing, options to watch Tony Awards performances and interviews with the creative teams, or, where available, footage of the historical figures. You could see newspapers or letters from the eras, or there could be live performances. It would be awesome. I promise.

[Alexis Ko]

This really appealed to me. I am not a musical theater person per se. I like going to musical theater, but I get really lost in those conversations. Also, I love the idea of someone who's both a history nerd and a musical theater nerd. That. That Venn diagram is intense. But if you take Hamilton, for instance, it's not just about the Founding Fathers. It's a layered narrative about how we've understood and reinterpreted the Founding Fathers stories. From Chernow's hagiography to Miranda's adaptation down to the subsequent discussions and apologies, it's all the same thing. It's just like the previous idea, the one before that. It's a microcosm of how historical narratives evolve.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. And then it's working on a very meta level, you know, like using the form to discuss the form and using the form to discuss what the form is about. Because it's like a multimedia extravaganza, which.

[Alexis Ko]

Every good exhibition is. As I was listening to her describe it, I was thinking, yeah, I mean, I'm on the board of a bunch of them. I used to curate them. That you always want this multimedia effect. You want to be sort of awash with these sources so that you can imagine what it was like to be alive at the time. You're not just listening to a soundtrack. You're not just seeing something. You're reading a newspaper, you're seeing photographs. You're understanding what a train looked like. You're hopefully sitting in one. And so I love the way she really developed it. All of the ideas here kind of rhymed. No one's really trying to reinvent the wheel here, but instead they're examining how we can think about that wheel. Like, how is it invented? Who gets credit and why? It's a slow, sometimes unexpected unveiling of how ideas form and how they're challenged and contested. And it's this kind of deep dive that we rarely get to indulge in, even in a book. Right. What we've been discussing is basically, it's a preface, it's an introduction. It's not the whole book unless it's a book that's only studied in graduate history programs. But all the approaches, they share this common thread. They're peeling back the layers of how we construct and understand our history. Whether it's through sitcoms, niche exhibitions, musical numbers, my own historical wonderland. We're all just trying to show that history isn't a static set of facts. It's living, it's breathing, it's constantly evolving, and it's a narrative that continues to shape our present and will shape our future.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. And that's how, you know, we all approach our work, too. And, you know, one of the other things that's just obviously kind of built into the question is that all of these would really be personal passion projects. And I think that sometimes out there in the world, history can, you know, people think of history as being very boring or, you know, not something that is. That is. It excites people or causes people to be passionate about something. And so any opportunity to get somebody with some funding and some direction and some ability to really create something that is deeply meaningful to them, like that kind of enthusiasm and passion, I think, comes through for whatever the audience is, who's going to be then taking it all in.

[Alexis Ko]

That's funny. I think of us all as working on passion projects just without the money to do so. And it hasn't stopped us thus far. So I guess it'd be nice to have the money, but we're all still doing it. So our. And I think everyone should read the great works that our contributors have written so far, and we'll list them in the show notes. So you will have a lot to read during our break. I don't know. I don't know what to call it. Our apres Season zero.

[Mike Duncan]

Apres Season zero works, and we're still figuring out what works and what's what and what's possible for us in the future and what we should be doing in the future.

[Alexis Ko]

In the meantime, thank you to our listeners for your support and your patience and your grace. And thank you to Today's guests, Rory McGovern, Marsha Chatlin, Emily Tamkin, Christine Cauty.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. Thank you to all of them. And thank you to you out there listening. And that's a wrap on season zero of the Duncan and Company History Show. I'm Mike Duncan. My co host is Alexis Ko and that was our show.