Marc Bloch

Summary

The Duncan & Coe History Show: Marc Bloch Episode Summary

Release Date: December 19, 2024

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Duncan & Coe History Show, hosts Mike Duncan and Alexis Coe delve deep into the life and legacy of Marc Bloch, a seminal figure in historiography and a heroic member of the French Resistance during World War II. This detailed exploration not only chronicles Bloch's academic contributions but also his unwavering commitment to resisting Nazi occupation, ultimately leading to his martyrdom. Through engaging dialogue and insightful analysis, Duncan and Coe bring Bloch's story to life, highlighting his profound impact on the field of history and his enduring legacy.

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Marc Bloch's Induction into the French Pantheon

The episode opens with Mike Duncan sharing breaking news that French President Emmanuel Macron has announced Marc Bloch as the newest member of the French Pantheon—a prestigious honor reserved for the nation's most esteemed sons and daughters. Duncan expresses his excitement and pride, stating:

"Being the lover of French history that I am, this set off all kinds of celebratory alarm bells in my mind because, like, I know who Marc Bloch is. I'm very familiar with him and his work and his story, and this is a very well-earned honor." ([05:00])

Understanding the French Pantheon

Alexis Coe provides context about the Pantheon, explaining its origins post-French Revolution as a mausoleum for France's most illustrious figures. She muses on Bloch being the first historian to be interred there, questioning whether he will be among other historians or mixed with figures from various fields:

"In the Pantheon, he will be the first one who's a historian. That was his profession. Other people dabbled in history, but this is kind of a big get for the history community." ([05:40])

Early Life and Background

Duncan narrates Marc Bloch's early years, emphasizing his Alsatian Jewish heritage and the impact of political turmoil on his family. Bloch was born in Lyon in July 1886 to a family that had been in Alsace for five generations under French rule. However, following the Franco-Prussian War of 1871, his family relocated to Paris when Bloch was just an infant, as his father secured a professorship at the Sorbonne.

"Bloch is not Jewish in the sense of being like a really active, observant Jew. He identifies as a Frenchman. Like, 'I am French. That's what I am.'" ([09:35])

This dual identity—proudly French yet ethnically Jewish—shapes Bloch's worldview and scholarly pursuits.

Academic Career and Contributions

Marc Bloch carved a niche for himself as a medieval historian, diverging from the traditional focus on kings and wars. Instead, he championed social history, emphasizing the lives of common people, peasants, and serfs. His pioneering work laid the foundation for modern historiography.

In 1924, Bloch published his first book investigating the folk belief that kings could cure scrofula by touch, not to validate the belief but to understand how such myths permeate society. This approach exemplifies his interest in the sociocultural fabric of historical periods.

"His first book in 1924 is investigating this long-standing folk belief that had taken root that the kings could cure scrofula, which is a kind of tuberculosis, by using like a magic touch that only the kings had." ([12:00])

The Annals and Historiographic Innovation

A significant milestone in Bloch's career was the founding of the influential historical journal Annales in 1929, alongside his colleague Lucien Febvre. The Annales revolutionized the study of history by shifting focus from political and military narratives to social history, incorporating interdisciplinary methods and social sciences.

"The Annals, which all is still around to this day, is one of the most influential historical journals in France. They want to turn away from political history, they want to turn away from narrative history, they want to turn away from Great man history, they want to focus on social history." ([15:00])

Coe remarks on Bloch's foresight, noting that his approach predated similar movements in other parts of the world, particularly in America.

World War II and Resistance Activities

As Europe plunged into the chaos of World War II, Bloch's life took a dramatic turn. In August 1939, just before the outbreak of the war, Bloch was mobilized for his third stint in the French army, demonstrating his commitment to his country.

When Germany invaded France in 1940, Bloch fought valiantly at the Battle of Dunkirk and was evacuated to England. Determined to return and assist his homeland, he authored The Strange Defeat—a poignant memoir analyzing France's rapid fall to Nazi forces.

"Bloch condemns a lot of interwar French society because it's too divisive. He blames the education system for creating a generation of pacifists who hated war." ([19:01])

Joining the French Resistance

With the establishment of Vichy France in 1940, a puppet state under Nazi influence, Bloch found himself increasingly marginalized due to his Jewish heritage. Expelled from the Sorbonne in October 1940, he moved to the University of Montpellier, facing anti-Semitic opposition from the dean.

In November 1942, as Nazi control intensified over Vichy France, Bloch joined the French Resistance, specifically the Franc Tireur movement. Leveraging his military and academic expertise, he played a crucial role in propaganda efforts, organizational logistics, and the preparation for the Allied invasion.

"Bloch is not just a part of the Resistance; by 1944, he's the acting head of a directory in the Rhone Alps, overseeing distribution of their magazines and supplies." ([25:11])

Arrest and Martyrdom

Bloch's resistance activities eventually led to his arrest by the Gestapo on March 8, 1944. Betrayed by his nephew and a local baker, he was captured and subjected to brutal torture by Klaus Barbie, infamously known as the "Butcher of Lyon."

Despite the relentless torture, Bloch remained steadfast, using his historical knowledge to mentally sustain himself and fellow prisoners:

"Here, he's teaching them history. He teaches them history to pass the time on their way to death." ([28:00])

On June 16, 1944, mere days after the Allied D-Day landings began to liberate France, Bloch and 27 others were executed by machine gun in a meadow—becoming martyrs of the French Resistance.

Legacy and Influence

Marc Bloch's scholarly work continued to influence historians long after his death. His innovative approaches to social history and interdisciplinary methods are foundational to contemporary historiography. Despite initial challenges in preserving his legacy—such as the rejection of his papers by the Archive Nationale in 1948—Bloch's contributions gained widespread recognition in the decades that followed.

By the late 1970s, Bloch was posthumously honored with state burials, streets named after him, and countless plaques commemorating his life. His induction into the French Pantheon in 2024 stands as a testament to his enduring impact on both history and national memory.

"In 1948, Bloch's son wanted to donate his father's papers to the Archive Nationale. They rejected the offer, saying, 'This shouldn't be here. This doesn't deserve to be here.' But his legacy persevered." ([31:07])

Hosts' Reflections

As the episode progresses, Duncan and Coe reflect on Bloch's profound influence on the field of history and their personal appreciation for his work. Mike Duncan emphasizes Bloch's role in shaping modern historiography:

"Bloch is very early to social history. He's very early to using social scientific techniques to illuminate the past. He's very committed to interdisciplinary studies." ([33:33])

Alexis Coe concurs, highlighting the importance of Bloch's belief that history exists in the present and that understanding the past is essential for comprehending the present:

"He believed that history existed in the present and could not just be stuck in the past. 'Misunderstanding of the present is the inevitable consequence of ignorance of the past,' he said." ([35:18])

The hosts jointly conclude that Bloch's methodologies and philosophies continue to resonate in contemporary historical studies, advocating for a holistic and socially conscious approach to understanding history.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Duncan & Coe History Show offers a thorough and engaging examination of Marc Bloch's life—from his academic innovations to his heroic resistance against Nazi oppression. Through meticulous research and passionate discussion, Duncan and Coe not only honor Bloch's memory but also underscore the enduring relevance of his work in today's historiographical landscape. For listeners seeking inspiration from history's heroes and the evolution of historical scholarship, this episode serves as a profound reminder of the power of resilience, intellect, and unwavering commitment to truth.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Mike Duncan ([05:00]):

   "Being the lover of French history that I am, this set off all kinds of celebratory alarm bells in my mind because, like, I know who Marc Bloch is. I'm very familiar with him and his work and his story, and this is a very well-earned honor."

2. Alexis Coe ([05:40]):

   "In the Pantheon, he will be the first one who's a historian. That was his profession. Other people dabbled in history, but this is kind of a big get for the history community."

3. Mike Duncan ([09:35]):

   "Bloch is not Jewish in the sense of being like a really active, observant Jew. He identifies as a Frenchman. Like, 'I am French. That's what I am.'"

4. Mike Duncan ([12:00]):

   "His first book in 1924 is investigating this long-standing folk belief that had taken root that the kings could cure scrofula, which is a kind of tuberculosis, by using like a magic touch that only the kings had."

5. Mike Duncan ([15:00]):

   "The Annals, which all is still around to this day, is one of the most influential historical journals in France. They want to turn away from political history, they want to turn away from narrative history, they want to turn away from Great man history, they want to focus on social history."

6. Mike Duncan ([19:01]):

   "Bloch condemns a lot of interwar French society because it's too divisive. He blames the education system for creating a generation of pacifists who hated war."

7. Mike Duncan ([25:11]):

   "Bloch is not just a part of the Resistance; by 1944, he's the acting head of a directory in the Rhone Alps, overseeing distribution of their magazines and supplies."

8. Alexis Coe ([35:18]):

   "He believed that history existed in the present and could not just be stuck in the past. 'Misunderstanding of the present is the inevitable consequence of ignorance of the past,' he said."

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Further Reading and Resources

For those interested in exploring Marc Bloch's work and legacy further, Mike Duncan mentions several books and resources in the show notes. These materials provide deeper insights into Bloch's contributions to history and his role in the French Resistance.

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Note: To purchase Alexis Coe's "Founders Look Like Birds" calendar or explore her Etsy shop, please refer to the show notes linked in the episode.

Transcript

[Alexis Ko]

Hello and welcome to season zero of the Duncan and Company History Show.

[Mike Duncan]

I'm Mike Duncan. My co host is Alexis Ko.

[Alexis Ko]

We're two far flung historian buddies and this is our wide ranging archival mix of a show. First item on the agenda is calendar Talk, because this is the very last episode of 2024, sort of. We are releasing bonus material, but we're going to take a few weeks off and see you back here, wherever here is, with new episodes in 2025.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. And then the second item on the agenda is actually more calendar talk because Alexis has made this insane 2025 calendar called the Founders look like Birds, an arguably patriotic calendar that is. I mean, well, it's just right there in the name, isn't it? But what have you done here?

[Alexis Ko]

I made a calendar out of a popular tweet that became a thread many years ago because you spend enough time with founders and you have maybe a bird chart on your fridge and thoughts start to percolate. And so I added a few and I just did this very silly thing.

[Mike Duncan]

It's great. The pictures of birds and founders that you have paired together, it's uncanny. The COVID one, the first one you showed me is James Madison as barn owl. And once you see James Madison paired with a barn owl, like, you can't unsee it. It's very clear that James Madison was descended from barn owls. And then you go through this cat, like every single one of these hits, like Thomas Jefferson. What was Thomas Jefferson?

[Alexis Ko]

Thomas Jefferson is paired with a northern cardinal. But that is not my favorite.

[Mike Duncan]

What's your favorite?

[Alexis Ko]

It used to be the chested duck and Henry Knox, who was, by the way, a bookseller. But now it's frizzle chicken and Patrick Henry.

[Mike Duncan]

Patrick Henry is a frizzle chicken.

[Alexis Ko]

Oh, I like it so much. Although someone told me today that their favorite was rock pigeon and George Mason. And that was a recent addition and I think a really strong one. So I ended the calendar with that.

[Mike Duncan]

Well, my thing is when I went through it, like every single one of them hits, every single one of them is, is a. Is a hit. There are no misses in here. And so you. They're in the show. Notes to this episode, there's a link to Alexis's Etsy site where you can get the Founders look like Birds and arguably on a calendar, which I think that all of you should go get. And there's another thing in that Etsy shop too, right?

[Alexis Ko]

Yes. In my week old Etsy shop, we, we have put up something, but I made it for you. When Mike was in the hospital. I made an amused bouche of an episode where I listed three things he wasn't dying from, mostly to amuse him. And then recently to amuse him again, I tried to commemorate it. And I wrote things Mike Duncan is not dying of, and that is on a grave. And then there's a flowchart, and up top is sepsis. Then you've got poodle. And then long windedness, which I still. I feel like it's too early to call.

[Mike Duncan]

I might die of long windedness at some point in my life, but not yet. I'm still alive.

[Alexis Ko]

Yes. And speaking of long windedness, if you heard cheering in the streets on Sunday night, it was because Mike made a big announcement, which is that revolutions will not end with the Martian revolution.

[Mike Duncan]

Thank you. Yes, I have caught my second wind on revolutions, and the Martian revolution is not going to be ending. The Revolutions podcast. I am, in fact going to come back. We're going to go back around World War I and we're going to cover Irish independence, probably the Spanish Civil War, Cuba, Algeria, like, all the things that were on the list to begin with that I didn't get to. I'm back and I'm going to go ahead and get to all of them. So everybody out there, including me, can look forward to that. But turning our attention to today's episode, and the topic of today's episode comes from me being online a couple weeks ago and having a piece of news cross my feed that stopped my doom scrolling dead in its tracks, and that is that on November 23, French President Emmanuel Macron announced that the French Pantheon would be getting a new member. And that new member would be legendary historian Mark Bloch. Now, if you don't know what the Pantheon is, maybe you don't, but it comes, you know, it emerges from the French Revolution. And it's basically this building in Paris where France stashes all of its favorite sons and daughters. And it is a great honor to be interred in the Pantheon. And so, being the lover of French history that I am, this set off all kinds of celebratory alarm bells in my mind because, like, I know who Mark Block is. I'm very familiar with him and his work and his story, and this is a very well earned honor.

[Alexis Ko]

Full disclosure. I saw a historian was going into the Pantheon, and that is the only thing that registered. I have been there, and I know it's a very small group, it's very select group, hard to get into, almost all men. And I can't recall as I'm sitting here, anyone besides Voltaire. Do they like, will he be joining other historians, or do they like to mix it up?

[Mike Duncan]

No, it's always a mix of scientists and politicians and writers, and I think that there's a few people who.

[Alexis Ko]

No, no, no. In the Pantheon. Who's he sitting with?

[Mike Duncan]

Oh, I don't know where they're gonna sit.

[Alexis Ko]

Where is he eating lunch?

[Mike Duncan]

I don't know who his roommates are in the Pantheon. But the thing is, he's gon only historian, so far as I can tell. I went through the occupation of every person in the Pantheon right now, and Block will be the first one who's like, he's a historian. That was his profession. Other people dabbled in history, but this is kind of a big. A big get for the history community.

[Alexis Ko]

That is huge. Are historians going to start getting respect?

[Mike Duncan]

What if they do? What if they do what Mark Block did? Maybe.

[Alexis Ko]

Which. I don't know.

[Mike Duncan]

I don't know if I have it in me to do what Block did. And that's why he's in the Pantheon and I never will be.

[Alexis Ko]

So if no historian has been in the Pantheon before him, his work must be really significant. And yet again, I have to confess, I never heard of it.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, Macron specifically cited when he was announcing this, he said it was because of, quote, his work, his teaching, and his courage that was the basis for his enshrinement. Because Marc Bloch is not just a towering figure in French historiography from the first half of the 20th century who shaped the discipline of history that we all work in today. All of that is true. He was also a determined and courageous patriot. And when the Nazis invaded France, he joined the Resistance down at Lyon. And In June of 1944, this famous historian, he was famous at the time, was arrested, and he was tortured, and he was executed.

[Alexis Ko]

I. That's not at all where I thought you were going. I'm sort of overwhelmed by that. So who was he?

[Mike Duncan]

So that's what we're here today to talk about, because I think that a lot of people out there, like, you have no idea who this person is. And when they saw that Mark Bloch was being inducted in the Pantheon, they were not like, oh, Mark Bloch's going in the Pantheon. They were like, okay, I'm going to keep doom scrolling. But so. So Bloch is this great French historian, but he was born in Lyon in July of 1886, and he comes from a family of Alsatian Jews, and. And his family had lived in alsace for, like, five generations under French rule. But in 1871, France has to cede that region to the Germans after the Franco Prussian War, and his family has to move away. And even though he was born in Lyon, he winds up growing up in Paris because his father, just after Bloch was born, was appointed professor of Roman history at the Sorbonne.

[Alexis Ko]

Oh, okay. All right. So it's like a family trade, which I also really like.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, he's going into the family business.

[Alexis Ko]

Yeah, of course. As one does. Was his father also politically active?

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, because when. When Bloch is 9 years old, this is when the Dreyfus affair hits France. And they are Jewish French, so this is right in sort of their lived experience inside of France. And if you don't know the Dreyfus affair, there's a. There was a army officer named Alfred Dreyfus who was Jewish, who was falsely accused of treason. He was convicted. He was sent off to this horrible penal colony. And it becomes a huge scandal that defines French politics at the end of the 19th century. And really, you can talk about French politics at this time as people who are pro Dreyfus and anti Dreyfus. And this becomes an even bigger scandal because eventually the real culprit is identified and the officer corps covers it up because they would prefer to just blame this Jew than have it be one of their own. And his dad was. Mark Blockstadt, was heavily involved in this and of course, impresses itself upon. Upon Bloch himself at a very young age.

[Alexis Ko]

Okay. So his dad gets involved in this way. They're Jewish, they're intellectuals, which sometimes means, particularly in Europe during this time, that their Jewishness is thrust onto them. And so it sounds like they're being sort of provoked into action. But how sort of, how Jewish was he in everyday life?

[Mike Duncan]

According to both Bloc himself and his family, he was not Jewish in the sense of being like a. Like a really active, observant Jew.

[Alexis Ko]

So he's French more than he personally.

[Mike Duncan]

Identifies as a Frenchman. Like, I am French. That's what I am. And the Jewishness is my ethnicity. It's my background, but it's not really how I identify in daily life. And there's a quote from him where he says, by birth, I am a Jew, though not by religion, for I have never professed any creed, whether Hebrew or Christian. I feel neither pride nor shame in my origins. I am, I hope, a sufficiently good historian to know that racial qualities are a myth and that the whole notion of race is an absurdity. I am at pains, never to stress my hereditary save when I find myself in the presence of an anti Semite. So, yeah, he's not Jewish until there's an anti Semite around who's like, I don't like Jewish people. And then Block is like, yeah, well, I'm Jewish. Do you want to make something of it?

[Alexis Ko]

Ooh, okay. Terrifying. If you know what's coming next. World War II.

[Mike Duncan]

Bloch's not gonna be able to avoid his Jewishness for long. But Bloch does very well in school. He's an exceptional pupil. He wins, like, tons of prizes. He's got a very bright future. And in 1905 and 1906, he serves his first stint, his first of three stints in the French army because of this, like, mandatory service that they have to do at this time. When he serves, he finds the officer corps. And this is again a quote from him, full of snobbery, anti Semitism and anti Republicanism. So he serves his little two year stint and then he just tries to get out of it.

[Alexis Ko]

Okay, all right, I hate to do this again, but we do know what happens next. So he can leave after his mandatory service, but he's going to have to serve again because World War I is coming.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, he's going right back into the army. He's not gonna be able to get out of this. So, yeah, World War I comes along. In 1914, he rejoins the French army as an infantry sergeant. And he serves all through the war. He's in the war from beginning to end. He's in all kinds of notable battles. He's at the Battle of the Somme, the Argonne, when the Germans are trying to assault Paris at the end of the war and, and through this period, he writes about how he identifies far more with the men under his command than the officers. And I do really think that, like, what comes later with his historical work, he's always looking to sort of the common and regular people as a source of. As a subject, as something to identify with, as something to study, as opposed to the officers and the aristocracy. Like this really, I think, comes into his head during, during this period during the war. And he's by all accounts a great soldier. He's wounded twice. He's decorated for courage and valor. He receives these great medals from the French government, the Croix de Guerre and the Legion d'honneur. These are the, you know, these are the best medals that a French soldier can get. And he racks them all up.

[Alexis Ko]

All right, so he gets back from war, he's decorated, he's an academic where does he go? How old is he? Is he married? What's his deal?

[Mike Duncan]

He comes out of the war, he's 33 years old. In July of 1919, when he does get married, he marries this woman named Simone Vidal in a Jewish wedding. So his Jewishness is always going to be there. And then her father was this wealthy and influential inspector general in the French civil service. And so what this means is he's kind of marrying into wealth a little bit. That is going to allow him to not worry about making a living for himself at this point in time. And he can really focus on his research, which is really the dream of.

[Alexis Ko]

I think I was just, I was like, oh, that, yes, yeah, kind of living, kind of living the dream. If the dream isn't about to turn into a nightmare.

[Mike Duncan]

Yes, his, his dream is about to turn into a nightmare. But they do, they have six kids together. He winds up having four sons and two daughters.

[Alexis Ko]

Okay, what sort of work is he doing?

[Mike Duncan]

As you said, he does go into a different field than his father and almost like chronologically follows his father because his father was a Roman historian. And then Bloch becomes a medieval historian. He's really focused on the Middle Ages and medieval society. And in 1920, he becomes a lecturer in medieval history at the University of Strasbourg. And his focus on this period, the Middle Ages, traditionally had been about kings and popes and princes and wars and political narratives. And Bloch really turns away from all this and he always wants to look downward towards the common people. He always wants to investigate the peasantry and the serfs. His first book in 1924, is investigating this long standing folk belief that had taken root that the kings could cure scrofula, which is a kind of tuberculosis, by using like a magic touch that only the kings had. And what he's interested in here is not trying to prove or disprove whether or not this is true, it obviously wasn't. But how beliefs like that can take root inside of a society and then just live as a mentality of the common people, which is, you know, it's always, it's always. This is an interesting thing, I think, to investigate to this very day, like, how do these folk beliefs take root out there? But his major contribution to French history and French historiography really starts up in 1929 when him and a buddy of his fellow historian named Lucien Fevre found a history journal called the Annals. I mean, all is still around to this day. It is one of the most influential historical journals in France. And then I think also Just Europe generally. Because what they do is, is they want to turn away from political history, they want to turn away from narrative history, they want to turn away from Great man history, they want to focus on social history, they want to talk about the common people, they want to talk about just how people are living their everyday lives. This is a turn inside of French history that impacts us to this very day, because I think that we are still living inside of a social turn inside of history, and we're still talking about turning away from great man history. And Bloch is like, so far ahead of his time on this. This is one of the reasons he's so influential. But the Annals itself is not itself apolitical. They are operating. This is the 1930s. There are tons of political debates happening. There's. There's fascism that's rising, there's communism that's rising. And the Annals takes a very political stance during all of this. They are very political. They are a part of the Popular Front. They are opposing the rising right, they're opposing the fascists. And they are always engaging with history and keeping an eye on current events at the same time.

[Alexis Ko]

Right? So late 19th century, it was no more Great man history. And now Bloch is pioneering decades before it comes to America, this idea of history from the bottom up. And he's prolific, he's lefty, he's interdisciplinarian, he knows how to fight. So for the love of God, I hope, though I suspect you're not going to confirm that he got tenure. You don't review how he got tenure. I don't want to hear about those meeting. I want to hear about how this nerdy war hero Jew fights Nazis occupying his country. That's where I want you to go. That's where I want you to go.

[Mike Duncan]

Let us turn our attention now to the College de France, where we will be going through all of the meetings about whether or not Mark Block. No, a chair in the College de France.

[Alexis Ko]

All his views from all his students.

[Mike Duncan]

Which he didn't get in 1934. And Bloch himself was pretty convinced that he. That he missed out on this because he was Jewish and that, like, the Jewish quota was filled. There were enough Jews. Jews at the college at the time.

[Alexis Ko]

He was probably right.

[Mike Duncan]

He probably was right. But then in 1936, he does get a chair in economic history at the Sorbonne. This is a very prestigious business that.

[Alexis Ko]

Is nothing to be ashamed of. That's fantastic.

[Mike Duncan]

This is great. And then in 1939, he comes out with this, the first of, like, A two volume set that is going to be a massive influential history of the Middle Ages. It is called Feudal Society. And I think that what we should do right now is stop and examine feudal society for upwards of 30 minutes. No, no, you don't want to do that.

[Alexis Ko]

No.

[Mike Duncan]

Why? Because what, does something else happen in 1939?

[Alexis Ko]

Yes, that's the thing. Like, if you're not going to get us there, Mike, the dates are going to get us there because Germany invades France in 1940, so he's got to start fighting one way or another, whether you like it or not.

[Mike Duncan]

Yes, we have to set all of that aside. In August of 39, Block is mobilized for his third stint in the army. He's now a captain. He's serving in Alsace. And he was exempt. Like, he didn't have to do this. Like he had. He was too old to be forced into service. He volunteered to do this. And so he's involved in the preparations for the invasion of the Germans. And then when the invasion happens, he's right there being defeated, being steamrolled by the Germans. He fights at the battle of Dunkirk, he's evacuated to England and then after he's evacuated to England, he fights to come back to France as soon as possible. And that this is, this happens so rapidly. Like we today, like we're just like, yeah, France fell apart instantly. And we know this is a piece of history, but this was a shocking thing for the French and for Bloc personally. And he writes this little book, this is probably his most famous book, and it's not even barely a work of history, but it's called the Strange Defeat, where he is writing from the perspective of a historian and a soldier who was there about why France was defeated so quickly.

[Alexis Ko]

That is the best title I've ever heard for a war memoir.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, it's great stuff. Bloch condemns a lot of interwar French society because it's like, too divisive. He blames the education system for creating a generation of pacifists who hated war. But also for a guy who was against great man history, it's somewhat ironic that basically he really lays the blame at the French general staff. And there's a quote from the book that's whatever the deep seated cause of the disaster may have been, the immediate occasion was the utter incompetence of the high command. So he's like, you did this. So like, great man history, no, they don't control anything. But if, like, if they're idiots, then yes, then definitely we see their influence and then he also thinks that the defeat is really about the morale and the psychology of the French versus the morale and psychology of the Germans. And he says what drove our armies to disaster was the cumulative effect of a great number of different mistakes. One glaring characteristic is, however, common to them all. Our leaders were incapable of thinking in terms of a new war. The German triumph was essentially a triumph of the intellect.

[Alexis Ko]

So Bloc goes back to France, but France is no longer France. It's France occupied by the Germans. And he's a Jew, so he is, I assume, about toliguous everything.

[Mike Duncan]

So, yeah, after France is defeated in 1940, the country is divided into two zones, and the north and west is under direct Nazi occupation, but the south and kind of the southeast are technically free. And this is Vichy France. And if you're familiar with the term, but never knew what that meant, Vichy is just the town that the new government is based in. And they created this like, technically free sovereign state that wasn't supposed to be under direct Nazi occupation, but was really a puppet state of the Nazis. Meanwhile, up in the north and like where Paris is, they're under direct Nazi occupation. And so because the Nazis are going to start purging all the Jews and rounding up all the Jews, In October of 1940, Bloch is expelled from the Sorbonne. He loses his chair because he's Jewish. And what he does is he moves to the Vichy region and takes up new academic postings. He is allowed to work in Vichy France, and he moves around a little bit, but he does land at the University of Montpellier, where that's the institution he's going to be affiliated with through all of what is about to happen next. And he does, you know, his time at the university is not great. The dean of faculty at Montpellier was himself an anti Semite who also disliked Bach personally for having once given him a poor review.

[Alexis Ko]

Oh my God, that's terrifying. There was probably no civility. I can't even imagine. Okay, But I don't understand how he's still living in a somewhat free manner. He seems to be moving freely. But in Germany and Poland, much of what you're describing at the same time is impossible for Jews. They've been stripped of their citizenship, of their possessions, they've been taxed, they've been persecuted. So how is he doing this?

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, so that is all true under the areas directly under Nazi occupation. But they were trying to maintain this pretense of this other part of France being free of Nazi control. And those kind of anti Semitic laws had not yet taken root. In Vichy France. So Block is still able to work and. And have jobs at universities in Vichy France. But this journal that he has been so closely identified with, in which he was a founding member of and one of the driving intellectual forces behind, is still based in Paris. And the Nazis want to purge all editorial boards of all Jews. And so they say if you want to keep printing the Annals, you have to take Mark Bloch's name off the masthead. And he's like the founder. He's the leading light of this thing. But his friend Lucian Feb, they are now having a falling out because Fevre is saying, no, I want to keep printing this thing in Paris. And the only way that we can do that is if we take your name off the masthead. And so Bloch tries to fight against this, but then ultimately relents and says, fine, turns. Turns the operation over to FEV completely, even though Bloch is still writing for them. He's writing for them under a pseudonym. But he's now been purged from this really influential journal that he himself, you know, so closely identified with.

[Alexis Ko]

So he's lost almost everything at this point, professionally. Is this where he joins the Resistance?

[Mike Duncan]

Basically, yes. The Nazis have promised the French that they would stay in their occupied zones and that Vichy France would remain free. But then In November of 1942, the Nazis start encroaching and invading on territory they said they would leave unoccupied. And I think that this is really, you know, in Block's mind, they're going to come for everybody eventually.

[Alexis Ko]

They're.

[Mike Duncan]

They're going to expand the scope of all of this. And I myself am going to get caught up in something that, you know, I've been able to avoid so far, but they will come for me. And so it is after November 1942 that he joins the French Resistance. And he already had. He. He had friends and colleagues and family members who were already connected to the Resistance, or two of his sons were already. But he moves to Lyon, which is the place of his birth, and joins the Franc Tireur movement, which. That is great French, I promise you. I nailed the pronunciation on that, which means free shooters, which is a name that the French use for like, sort of irregular partisans. It goes back to the Franco Prussian War and was now obviously coming back here again in 1942. And so he joins this movement, which is folded into a larger movement called the Movements Uni de la Resistance, or the mur, and he's going to use his experience as both a soldier and a scholar to wage war against the Germans and to fight as a part of the Resistance. He's got training as a soldier and an officer. He's got training as a scholar. So he winds up writing propaganda for them. He's going to wind up taking over one of their principal magazines. And then he's also organizing supplies and the distribution of material to all of these groups, because he has a lot of experience with this from his time in the French Army.

[Alexis Ko]

This is amazing. But. But this is conspicuous work. Right. You're. You're both, I'm assuming, engaged in some sort of, you know, subterfuge on some level. He's training people. He's also printing materials. All of this garners attention. The Germans are around. How is this happening?

[Mike Duncan]

So this is the best part for any historian that wants to, like, go into, like, a fantasy headspace and be like, I was in the Resistance as a historian. Because he moves around and is able to do all this stuff under his cover story. And his cover story is that he needs to be in these places to do archival research. That's what I'm here to do. I just have to visit the archives. And then in between visiting the archives, he's organizing resistance to the Nazis. But during this period, Bloch is not just, you know, a part of the Resistance. He's not just an old guy hanging around. By 1944, he's the acting head of a directory in the Rhone Alps, which is the region that. That he's living in. And he's overseeing distribution of their magazines and distributing all these supplies and stuff. And what they're doing is preparing for the Allied invasion of France, especially the landing that's going to come up from Italy and up from the south of France is going to liberate Vichy France. That's what they're gearing up to help the Allies accomplish.

[Alexis Ko]

Oh, my God. Everything's coming to a head. And I'm so stressed out right now because I'm afraid that the Allied forces will not come in time.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, you don't get to be a martyr if things go well for you.

[Alexis Ko]

Right? Right.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. So, yes, on March 8, 1944, Mark Bloch is arrested in Lyon by the Gestapo as part of a larger sweep against Resistance groups. And he is betrayed by his nephew. His nephew was the one who betrayed him. And then also there was some local baker who was like, the Gestapo comes around trying to identify who these people are, and he fingers Block, and Block gets picked up. And after he's arrested and the Leon organization is kind of wrapped up the Nazis then trumpet this. They bragged about how they've shut down this communist terrorist group that is financed by London and Moscow, and that in particular it was led by, quote, a Jew who has taken the pseudonym of a French southern city. And this is Bloc, because Bloc's name inside the Resistance was Narbonne, which is the name of a French. Which is the name of a southern French city.

[Alexis Ko]

Oh, God. So they're going to make an example out of him.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, he's an evil Jew who is leading the resistance against the noble German people. So he gets held in. He gets held in a prison and he is interrogated, quote, unquote, interrogated, but mostly tortured by this guy named Klaus Barbie. And Klaus Barbie is infamous in France and, and really in, in all of this, he's known as the Butcher of Lyon. He's supposed to be interrogating all of these people. But when I, when I was going back through this, everybody seemed to be saying, like, he didn't really get much information out of anybody, like nobody really talked. That Barbie was really in it for the sadism of the thing that he just enjoyed inflicting torture on people. And fun, fun fact. Barbie gets away after the war. And he gets away because the Americans, us wanted help from people who had experience like in the Gestapo fighting communists because now we're moving into the Cold War. So Barbie actually gets away and doesn't get tracked down until the 1980s for all the horrible things that he did. Thanks to the Americans, one of our finest hours. But Block himself is subjected to beatings and severe ice baths. He suffers broken bones. He gets sick probably with pneumonia from the ice baths, but he's. He's tortured repeatedly, like every single day in between this. However, he's a historian and what he does to pass the time and to keep the other inmates minds off of what is happening to them, they all believe, rightly, that they're facing death. Here is he's teaching them history. He teaches them history to pass the time on their way. On their way to death.

[Alexis Ko]

This is a really overwhelming story. I'm thinking about his family and wondering if they know where he is. Jewish deaths are accelerating. The Allies are going to land Normandy in the summer. So there is a small chance that we have survivors here.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, so far as I can tell, the rest of his family does not fall prey to Nazi atrocities. His wife had been really sick in what later turned out to be a form of stomach cancer, and she dies of natural causes in July of 1944. So very shortly after this, two of his sons made it to Spain. They fled to Spain. And he had a daughter who was overseeing a children's home. She was taking care of 80 kids during all of this. And I know that they all lived through this. But Block himself just kind of gets picked up by the Gestapo and disappears. But it's not entirely clear what has happened to him. But we now know what happened, which is that, yes, the Allies land in Normandy on June 6, 1944. And the Nazis in France start saying to themselves, we gotta liquidate everything. It's probably time for us to start pulling back. And that means dispatching all these prisoners and dispatching any proof of the things that they had done to them. And so on June 16, 1944, Mark Bloch and 27 others were taken out to a meadow and they were shot in the back with machine guns.

[Alexis Ko]

But he was known during the war for his efforts. He was known before the war for his work and his heroicism. So I'm imagining that there is a lot of collective memory celebrating him kind of from the beginning. As France forms its own post war.

[Mike Duncan]

Identity, it builds over time because we know that in 1948, Bloch's son wanted to donate his father's papers to the Archive Nationale. Like, his father was this great renowned historian who'd done all this great stuff during the war, donates his papers, and they're like, yeah, we don't need those. They rejected the offer. Like, this shouldn't be here. This doesn't deserve to be here. But, oh, yeah, I know that's actually.

[Alexis Ko]

Unfathomable because usually, you know, so I worked at the nypl, which is a research library in New York, and we both, you know, regularly visit research libraries. You don't turn down papers of influential people. That's awful. That's awful. But son doesn't, like, throw the papers in the air and never come back to France. Right. Like, he is remembered.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah. And, and, and really after the war, you know, his, his work, his historical work is still influential on working historians. And the story of his life is known to everybody. And so during, you know, the 50s and the 60s and the 70s, his reputation grows. You know, his. The legend of his martyrdom grows. And by the late 70s, he does finally get an official state burial. You were getting streets named after him, we're getting plasses named after him, plaques are going up, and he becomes like a real national hero, which is culminating here in 2024 with him getting inducted into the Pantheon, which is a very rare and unique Honor for anyone. There are a few books about Bloch.

[Alexis Ko]

Out there in English. Can you drop the links in the show notes?

[Mike Duncan]

Yes, I will drop several links into books about Mark Block if you are interested in learning more about this man.

[Alexis Ko]

I am. It's quite a story and I get obviously why you wanted to tell it, but I sort of suspect that this story is not the thing you tempted me with the bio. But it's clear that he's sort of been like personally influential to you. And if I'd let you, you would have summarized the Nazi stuff in a paragraph. Mike is just like nodding and laughing and turning various shades of red. And you were spent 40 minutes at least on the evolution of his approach. So I see you, you're dying to talk about it. Just. Just come out with it. So, Mike, tell us. I want to hear what he means to you as a historian.

[Mike Duncan]

Bloch is not necessarily influential on me in particular because I am doing the very things that he was like. We have to reject that. We don't want to do that which is like kind of top line narrative history of great political figures. That's a lot of what I do. But I am extremely interested in the development of history as a craft and as a discipline. And I love tracing historiographic trends. And in this, Mark Bloch really does loom large. He's very early to social history. He's very early to using social scientific techniques to illuminate the past. He's very committed to interdisciplinary studies. He does not like siloing off different fields and departments. This is stuff that I do actually genuinely believe that everybody should be talking to everybody else. So he wants to bring in geography, he wants to bring in agronomy, he wants to bring in statistics. He wants to bring in all of these other techniques beyond just using historical documents to tell a historical story. He also did not like narrow national histories. Like when he would go to England, he would say, in England, it's only England. That's the only thing that they focus on. When he would look at what the Germans were up to during this period, he would say, like, they're developing all of these weird racial notions and racial categories and racial explanations for why things have developed the way that they have that can be blown up by doing simple comparative history between times and places. And then one final thing that has always stuck with me from Bloch, which here is very influential, is that he believed that history existed in the present and could not just be stuck in the past. And there's this great quote from him where he says, misunderstanding of the present is the inevitable consequence of ignorance of the past. But a man may wear himself out just as fruitlessly in seeking to understand the past if he is totally ignorant of the present.

[Alexis Ko]

Right. And that completely speaks to so much of the work that we all do that I feel like I do all the time, increasingly so sometimes, unfortunately, that you have to make these connections. And it's not because I think there's this impression sometimes, particularly for someone like me, where you appear on TV and you talk about the presidency, that you're some sort of hack and that's why you're doing it. You're doing it because you can't not see the connections.

[Mike Duncan]

Yeah, that's true of my work too. Like, I believe that history exists in the present. We do history in the present. We study the past, but it operates in the present. And our present day mentalities and our present day experiences influence how we study history. And our study of history then influences how we understand the present.

[Alexis Ko]

And if you don't say it, then you're complicit in what is happening in your own lifetime, which you cannot do as a person, as a historical actor, as a historian. I think that's a good place for us to end the 2024 part of season zero of the Duncan and Co History Show.

[Mike Duncan]

I'm Mike Duncan. My co host is Alexis Ko.

[Alexis Ko]

We're two far flung historian buddies, and this is our wide ranging archival mix of a show. We'll see you in 2025.