104.) Debating Top Philly Rappers Of All Time + Max B vs Big Daddy Kane w/ Jamaal Bowman

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ebro, Laura & Rosenberg Show

Episode 104: Debating Top Philly Rappers Of All Time + Max B vs Big Daddy Kane w/ Jamaal Bowman
Recorded May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Ebro Darden, Laura Stylez, and Peter Rosenberg sit down with former congressman and educator Jamaal Bowman for an unfiltered discussion traversing politics, community activism, hip hop culture, and hilarious debates on top rappers. The crew dives into themes of voter suppression, youth engagement, racism, and the evolution of hip hop—culminating in heated rankings of Philadelphia's greatest emcees. The show balances insight with banter, pop culture trivia, and plenty of memorable moments, all in their signature raw, energetic tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jamaal Bowman’s Post-Congressional Work & Youth Engagement

[01:02–05:26]

• Bowman details life after Congress—engaged in community organizing and helping progressive candidates nationwide, focusing on mobilizing "apolitical, disillusioned people."
• On youth voter turnout: "What brings them out is great candidates and a movement... If the candidate is whack... young people ain't gonna come out." (Bowman, 03:58)
• The importance of candidates with charisma, humility, and clear communication is echoed, linking youth political energy to compelling leadership and urgent issues.
• Laura and Bowman discuss calling Gen Z to action, connecting digital consumption to real-world engagement, like school boards and city councils.

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Confronting Racism & Right-Wing Extremism

[05:31–14:26]

• The conversation shifts to confronting far-right figures like Laura Loomer and Stephen Miller.
• Bowman describes Loomer as still having "the ear of very important people... as high as the President of the United States." (06:23)
• Rosenberg offers personal insight into the unusualness of "loud, proud, deport them" racism from some Jews like Loomer:

  "It is extremely unusual... as a secular Jewish American to run into extreme bigotry from Jews... the way that Jews have voted in this country, near 79%, progressive..." (Ebro, 08:18)

• Bowman agrees, drawing links to broader issues of supremacy, dehumanization, power, and internalized oppression across all communities.
• Bowman: "I used to think we would win the fight against racism... That's not the case. This is something we're going to have to fight for the rest of our lives." (06:23)

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Voter Suppression & Apathy in Democracy

[14:21–18:45]

• The show tackles the rise of voter suppression: SCOTUS weakening the Voting Rights Act, gerrymandering, restrictive ID laws, and psychological suppression.
• Bowman gives practical examples, such as Tennessee redistricting: "There's no longer a majority black congressional district in Tennessee." (15:01)
• Laura and Ebro lament increased voting fatigue due to frequent, seemingly endless local elections, which fosters apathy, especially among working families.
• Bowman shares his own political awakening, emphasizing hope from recent progressive victories and the energy he draws from grassroots wins.

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Bowman’s Journey: From Educator to Congress

[19:23–24:19]

• Bowman recounts 20 years in education and founding a Bronx school at age 33.
  • He notes rising self-harm among young girls, particularly Latinas, fueling his desire to address systemic issues through politics.
  • Influenced by AOC and the Squad, Bowman decided, “Fuck it, I’m running for Congress.” (21:08)
• On campaign funding:

  "First thing I did was call everybody in my phone... we raised $30,000. Then... we raised $770,000 by the end of the race." (23:00–24:19)

• The infamous “If I didn’t have a primary, I wouldn’t care” hot mic moment from Elliott Engel is broken down, a pivotal campaign boost for Bowman.
• When APAC-backed opponents ousted him in 2024, their campaign spent a staggering $20 million against his grassroots fundraising.

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Knicks Fandom & Hip Hop Trivia Tangents

[29:13–33:16]

• The show detours into NBA playoff updates and New York Knicks fanaticism, laced with nostalgic references to Anthony Mason and Diamond D's “Best Kept Secret.”
• Fun exchanges about hip hop lyrics, borough trivia, and old-school NYC projects highlight a deep shared culture.

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The Puerto Rican N-Word Debate

[32:33–35:41]

• Rosenberg raises the recurring debate over Puerto Rican rappers’ use of the N-word in NYC hip hop.
• Bowman calls it “a nothing burger,” emphasizing shared upbringing:

  "We was all raised together... That's just what it was." (33:17)

• The hosts stress the importance of context and the dangers of applying present-day social standards to earlier hip hop eras.

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Ranking the Top 10 Philly Rappers of All Time

[35:41–47:15]

• Triggered by Gille Da Kid ranking himself in Philly’s top 10 on Million Dollaz Worth of Game, the crew launches into a passionate, highly detailed debate.
• Consensus emerges: Black Thought (The Roots) reigns supreme in lyrical prowess.
• Meek Mill’s massive cultural impact with "Dreams and Nightmares" positions him as a strong runner-up.
• Other names argue for top spots: Beanie Sigel, Will Smith (for his hits and influence), Freeway, Eve, Bahamadia, Schoolly D, Cassidy, Dice Raw, and even Corrupt (debated due to his bi-coastal career).

  "You can’t look past how big he is... 'Summertime' is... and 'Brand New Funk'... great classic hip hop records." (46:17, Ebro)

• The show explores whether Corrupt “counts” and contrasts cross-coastal roots, opening up Tupac and Snoop Dogg as further examples.
• Interesting notes on generational bias—Bowman admits being “stuck in the 90s” and open to exploring newer Philly talents like Tierra Whack.

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Max B vs. Big Daddy Kane: Longevity & Hip Hop Legacy

[47:20–57:52]

• A viral Max B interview claims his run was longer than Big Daddy Kane’s, stirring debate.
• Max B: "After Big, J, and Nas, you could put me anywhere on that list." (47:59)
• The hosts break down Kane’s career:
  • Acknowledging the "softening" on Kane's third album, which disappointed some fans, but asserting the enduring impact of his first two records and his professional, legendary live performances.
• Bowman:

  "[Big Daddy] Kane is beyond reproach... if you just want to use those two albums... arguably on the Mount Rushmore of hip hop." (55:04–55:24)

• Ebro:

  "Long Live the Cane alone... that moment in time is up there with the most epic, iconic things that have ever happened to hip hop." (57:52)

• Joke about Max B’s podcast potential: "I don't think he's an A Mike... but you could have another rap person..." (54:12, Ebro)

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The Gurus: Advice Segment—“The Lifestyle” Dilemma

[59:00–69:19]

• A question concerning drama in a black and brown swingers/"lifestyle" community leaves everyone (hilariously) confused about terminology and proper etiquette.
• Rosenberg: "You sound like a snitch...I think you should have just said that's between y'all." (62:38, 68:17)
• Laura and Jamaal riff on swinging, community mentors, and the ethics of exposing gossip.
• Consensus: Don't end a friendship purely over different approaches to interpersonal drama; self-awareness and context matter.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "What brings them (the youth) out is great candidates and a movement... If the candidate is whack... young people ain't gonna come out." —Jamaal Bowman, 03:58

• "There is something very sick in them, literally... This really vitriolic, like diabolical hatred of different ethnic groups... it's crazy." —Ebro Rosenberg on Stephen Miller & Laura Loomer, 10:52

• "Voter suppression is... bombarding you with how horrible things are. And then psychologically you just check out." —Jamaal Bowman, 16:07

• "That's why I'm still plugged in... Because... now we stacking up wins. That keeps me hyped and keeps me going." —Jamaal Bowman, 19:09

• "You call everybody in your phone. And then from that, we raised $30,000... by the end... $770,000." —Jamaal Bowman, 23:00–24:19

• "Max B. Is not wrong... Kane had two phenomenal albums. And then on the third album... we were upset about that." —Jamaal Bowman, 54:38–55:06

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 01:02–05:26 | Bowman’s activism & youth political engagement | | 05:31–14:26 | Combating racism and right-wing hate | | 14:21–18:45 | Voter suppression & election design critique | | 19:23–24:19 | Bowman's journey from principal to Congress | | 32:33–35:41 | Puerto Rican N-word debate and hip hop context | | 35:41–47:15 | Top Philly rappers debate | | 47:20–57:52 | Max B vs. Big Daddy Kane, legacy & performance | | 59:00–69:19 | Gurus advice: “The Lifestyle” drama, swinging |

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Tone & Flow

True to the show’s format, the episode flows with natural, overlapping dialogue, candid personal stories, comedic jabs, and deep cultural analysis. The hosts and Bowman switch easily between serious social issues and nostalgic hip hop bravado, capturing both the gravity of today’s politics and the joy of old-school debate.

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For listeners and hip hop heads: This episode is a must, providing both civic insight and rich music culture discussion, peppered with indelible moments and references that make the Ebro, Laura & Rosenberg Show a staple in hip hop commentary and cultural conversation.

Transcript

[Ebro Darden]

Whatever your thing, it could be anything. Canva helps you make that thing a thing. Canva is a simple online tool thing. It's a way to design, with our magic AI tool, things you can social media your thing, generate images or videos of your thing, make decks or presentations to show your thing whatever needs to be done for your thing. Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing.

[Jamal Bowman]

Just don't call it a podcast.

[Ebro Darden]

The Ebro Laura Rosenberg Show.

[Laura Rosenberg]

What's up, fam? Welcome back. Happy Thursday Thursday.

[Ebro Darden]

MF and vibes, folks. You know what it is? It's the definition of Friday at J's.

[Jamal Bowman]

I know.

[Laura Rosenberg]

We're almost there. We're almost there.

[Ebro Darden]

We have our friend hanging out today, the great Jamal Bowman.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

Friend of the show. Who we realized we've never met in

[Jamal Bowman]

real life, which is crazy.

[Ebro Darden]

That was a crazy realization.

[Jamal Bowman]

Crazy, man.

[Ebro Darden]

Like, I really feel like I know you. That's. That's. I mean, we do.

[Jamal Bowman]

We do know each other. Yeah, we, like, text. We.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah, we text. We comment on each other's stuff, like, constantly. And so it's just so funny that, you know, your emergence publicly was pandemic era. So we did our conversations on Zoom. And Jamaal Bowman, former educator, former congressman, until aipac, pointed all. All the. All the targets were right on Jamal's head. And. But you did a great job when you were. When you were in the house. And obviously, you're still outside doing all the things and fighting for all the things that you care about. But more than that, his reason for being here is just that he's an interesting guy who's paying attention to all the things going on in the world. So we said, why not have Jamal Bowman come on up?

[Jamal Bowman]

I appreciate that. It's a pleasure and honor to be here. Thank you for having me. Been watching y' all for many, many, many years. Y' all been holding down hip hop for how long? Two decades?

[Ebro Darden]

Close to it. Close to it.

[Jamal Bowman]

Close to two decades. Right? And I remember, you know, telling my wife a couple years back, I was like, yo, you gotta. You Gotta listen to Hot 97, yo. You gotta turn on, you know, Ebro and them in the morning, they'd be dropping some jewels. So appreciate y' all and really excited about the new venture and what y' all doing. Thank you.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Thank you.

[Ebro Darden]

We. We appreciate it. So how. How long have you now been done with your life as a public servant?

[Jamal Bowman]

I'm not done, man.

[Ebro Darden]

Right, right. Sorry.

[Jamal Bowman]

Sorry.

[Ebro Darden]

How long have you been Done with your paid life as a public servant.

[Jamal Bowman]

So, so I, I have, I, I lost my election June 2024.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Jamal Bowman]

And then I had to finish out my term. So January 2025 was my. 1-2-6. Ironic. No, January 3rd, 2025 was my last official day in Congress. And yeah, post that, I've just been plugged in in community organizing, still helping people get elected was one of Zoran Mamdani's first endorsers and, you know, hitting the pavement for him. And since then I've been helping, you know, from Katie Wilson in Seattle to Charles Booker, who just won a couple days ago in Kentucky, just crossing the country trying to help people get elected and trying to keep our people engaged. And by our people, I mean like apolitical people, disillusioned people, people who don't trust the system, which I totally understand. I feel that it's my job to kind of try to pull them in and keep them engaged and keep them focused and active.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Now I, I will say we have this conversation a lot on the show because I feel that the youth is informed and charged, you know, and then there's another side of me that listens to other people and be like, man, I don't know about Gen Z. I don't know if they're gonna come out. I don't know if they're gon, you know, get off their phones and move. How do you feel? Because you've been out, you've seen both sides as an educator and as, you know, someone who has been on the streets campaigning and also seen the work.

[Jamal Bowman]

So you're absolutely right on both accounts. Right. So the youth are more informed and more educated because they have their phones. They could turn on Instagram, tick tock, whatever, and get a lot of information. What brings them out is great candidates and a movement. Right. And so whether it's an aoc, a Charles Booker Zoran, dare I say, a Jamal Bowman, that's the thing that gets younger people and apolitical people excited. And so what I always look for is, okay, does this candidate have the charisma, the humility, the empathy and the communication skills to like, inspire others to get involved? If the candidate is whack and they're running on, on a whack platform, young people ain't gonna come out. But if they're someone who's exciting, like again just now in New York City, then candidates are gonna, then the young people are gonna come out. And so when you see people like us, progressives win elections, you always see an increase in voter turnout with young people.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

And so the candidate has to be on point. They gotta be aligned with the right issues, and then the young people will get engaged. What I want, what I think we need to see more of is, you know, how are we. Like, you're on your phone, you're getting this information, but then there are actions you could take on an issue before you have a great candidate. So my hope is, like, we have more call to actions to get more involved in, like your school board or city council or town council or anything like that, because all that stuff is important as well.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, man. Yeah. All right. We got a lot to cover today, Rosenberg.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

Also, you set me off the other morning, started me on fire bright and early because he posted this monster, Laura Loomer, talking about how all Muslims should be deported. Yeah, man. Obviously we saw the tragedy of earlier in the week, the mass shooting at a mosque.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Horrible.

[Ebro Darden]

In San Diego, Right?

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

And, yeah, five people lost their lives. Terrible situation. And this monster's response to that was deport all Muslims. Does Laura Loomer, is she someone who at this point could fade away and sort of not be that relevant if people like you and I sort of looked the other way? Or do you think that she still has the ear of important people and is still impactful in her own way?

[Jamal Bowman]

She still has the ear of very important people, people as high as the President of the United States. I mean, she has been an advisor to President Donald Trump. She has the air of very wealthy people, like multi billionaire people, who are trying to undermine democracy and trying to just own everything, like a corporation. Right. And so she has the air. So we need to confront her as a racist and racism directly. Right. And this is a fight. You know, I used to think that we would win the fight against racism and we would be beyond it and everything would be good. That's not the case. This is something we're going to have to fight for the rest of our lives. And so there are people like her who are very powerful and very powerful positions with a lot of wealth who are still going to continue to do what they're trying to do, which is, again, treat government and people as property the same way this country was founded.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

And. And control policies and politics. And so the fight continues. I mean, her post that I. That I reposted on Instagram had, you know, 666, 000 views. And, you know, but. But X is a. Is a cesspool for. For people like that. And so. But they're out there they're out there. So burying our hand in this head in the sand is not going to get it done. But to your, to your larger point, we also need to strengthen our own communities, right? And make sure we are in community and solidarity and love with each other and uplifting a different reality that's not connected to that nonsense.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, man. Cuz as much as like when I look at, when I look at the posts and, and how disgusting and vile they are, it's easy to be like, swipe, let me just, you know what I mean, get rid of it. But people like this exist and they have a following. And right now this incel culture that I've been like looking into that I always talk about on the show, it's like all those people are following her and are true believers of her hate.

[Ebro Darden]

You're absolutely right. Laura and I, she, I find interesting. I remember reading an article about her a while ago and sort of her weird family story. And it's interesting, I'm just putting it together now. Her and Stephen Miller also has a weird family story. These people who like from very early, like there's something literally wrong with them. So I am not denying that like there are obvious, of course there are Jewish bigots, just like there are bigots of all backgrounds. But I will say it is extremely unusual in my experience as a sort of secular Jewish American to run into extreme bigotry from Jews. Certainly there are casual Jewish bigots, like I said, the way there are of all varieties where if you start digging into the conversation, you're like, you're not really great on this stuff. But this sort of loud, proud deport them really borderline, not borderline Nazi like thoughts and antics is straight up unusual for American Jews. It's just not. If you look historically at the way that Jews have voted in this country, near 79%. In other words, just like black folks, if Jews had been the only voters in every election, we would have only had progressive presidents always. And, and I'm very proud of that as a Jewish person, that we are generally not like the other whites in this country. When you look at voting patterns. So when you see a Stephen Miller and you see a Laura Loomer, people who are, you know, descendants of people who were at least adjacently connected to the Holocaust, there is something very sick in them, literally. And I'm not saying this as a pass in any way, but there is something literally quite sick about these people that the tone they take on is not even sort of the political racism or bigotry that you might be able to detect in some of the other people who speak on the right. But this really vitriolic, like diabolical hatred of different ethnic groups, Jamal, it's crazy. It is quite literally crazy behavior. And the fact that one is loud enough to have the President's ear through phone calls and the other one is one of his chief advisors. I don't know how you feel, Jamal. I feel like if Stephen Miller were not a part of the Trump administration, while it would still be awful in 75% of the same ways, the most like tactical, dangerous, racist parts would be removed. With Stephen Miller, I believe it is his. Like Trump doesn't. Trump is a bigot in a more casual way. I don't think he wakes up and goes to bed thinking about his hatred of ethnic groups. I really don't. I think that's a simple thing that we on the left could easily assess. But I don't think he cares enough. Trump's bottom line is so self serving and money based. I do not think he rises and goes to bed thinking of it. I think Stephen Miller does. I think that is his whole thing is practically, and again, this is what's crazy because Stephen Miller is Jewish. I think he literally thinks about practically a pure master race.

[Jamal Bowman]

I agree. I think he does. And I think, you know, there's this perception of superiority over other people. And if I'm superior, that means you all are inferior. And if you all are inferior, you all are expendable and I can dispose of you in a variety of different ways. And the key issue here is power. How am I and people like me building power for ourselves and ensuring that we have more power over other people? This is not unique to the Jewish community. This happens in every community. Right. But this, this what you're pointing out with Stephen Miller and Laura Loomer, you know, there's a gentleman named Ben Gavir who's part of the Netanyahu government and he is a Jewish supremacist, like, like self proclaimed Jewish supremacist and, and, and all monster.

[Ebro Darden]

I mean, for the killing of anybody possible.

[Jamal Bowman]

Right? And just like any supremacy, right, White supremacy, any supremacy, it's scary and it's dangerous and it's rooted in hate. It's rooted in power and is rooted in the, the dehumanization of other people. I mean, when I, when I think about, you know, my, my personal history, my ancestors history in this country, I mean, it's been rooted in dehumanization and, and to put it mildly, dehumanization

[Laura Rosenberg]

you

[Jamal Bowman]

know, mass incarceration, redlining, you know, policies that continue to keep certain groups, you know, where they are in the caste system. And then, last thing I'll say about this is the. The. The. The colonization that happens to the mind.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

In terms of the way we are led to think about the world as we go through the school system and as we exist with others, that's also the scary thing. Right. Because it's not just what comes from outside of us. It's what we internalize about ourselves. And that internalized thinking leads to us minimizing our capacity to maximize our full potential. And so all of that thinking, white supremacy, any supremacy, was it patriarchy? Like, women having to deal with that shit? Like, all of that is just up in a world that hopefully we could get beyond in the next generation. Sorry to get philosophical, but that's where it goes.

[Ebro Darden]

Philosophical with an F bomb. You don't get it every day. We get it on this show. We do.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I will say one thing that, you know, obviously everyone's talking about is voter suppression. Right. And it really breaks my heart when I'm going through comments, and I'm sure you've seen it, too, and you see, like, Latinos and black folks, the ones that are like, well, nothing's affected me. I'm fine. Or women or anybody that's not, you know, a white, straight male, when they're like, what do you talk about? Voter suppression? I have no problem. I'm still good. And I, you know, these obviously people that are not paying attention. But I just would like your thoughts for our audience on how crazy it's gotten and how dangerous it is.

[Jamal Bowman]

Again, you know, not to be a broken record, but it's very, very scary. Like, what's happening right now is very, very scary. The Supreme Court's decision to weaken the Voting Rights Act, Section 2, give states more power to decide on congressional maps and who has voting power in certain sections of the state. And so after the Supreme Court decision, Tennessee state legislature immediately changed the maps, so now there's no longer a majority black congressional district in the state of Tennessee. This is important because, you know, because of what's happening now. And historically, it's important for black communities in every community to have a strong voice in. In the decisions that are made in the House of Representatives. And so that's one aspect of voter suppression. Another aspect is ID laws, and not just ID laws. So they'll, you know, states will change the laws as it relates to, okay, you need to have this form of ID, but then they'll close DMVs and places where you could go get an ID to make sure you don't have access to the proper id.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

So that's another form of photo suppression. And then another is just like they'll bombard you on television, on media, with how horrible things are. And then psychologically you just check out, you just unplug. You know what? I'd rather not deal with it. And so the reaction you get from the comments, I mean, these are, these are privileged people, right, who are willfully ignorant or willfully ignorant and, or privileged who you know, are, are thinking about themselves and hunkering down and self preservation. Making sure I'm good without the empathy that's needed for a democracy to work. Yeah, like this is a society, it's a democracy. We're supposed to be here together, looking out for each other. And now because of just the political system, economic system, history, etc. Etc. It's all about like, how do I get mine and make sure I'm good and we're not really looking out for each other like that.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's not what you want.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, that's all I can say.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I just worry, I, I, I worry, I worry because we, we have the power to make changes, right, by getting out and voting, whether it's local. Like you just have to be, you just have to have the energy to just take what, 20 minutes out of your day.

[Ebro Darden]

But that's the genius part about what they're doing. Yes, Voter surprise is you're, you're fighting against the thing that's already kind of hard for people to do, especially working people, families, stuff going on. I know I could speak for New York and I don't know what it's like everywhere else, the amount of elections here, the way that, and I think that's a major problem, that the way that elections are structured here, where it feels like you're voting every year. I mean, there's a period where it feels like every time I look up, they're like, well, it's election day. I'm like, we just had election day. I feel like it's almost done in a way that breeds apathy because like, wait, it's another small election where I haven't really heard the people haven't done the work. I'll wait for when the mayor's running, I'll wait for when the Senate seats

[Jamal Bowman]

up every four years. Election day. You could keep up with that. That's easy.

[Ebro Darden]

That's easy.

[Jamal Bowman]

You know what I'm saying, but all these primaries, all these council races, all that other stuff.

[Ebro Darden]

And again, like, even every two years, you could manage. But every year is a lot. And it's.

[Jamal Bowman]

Every year is a lot, man. People going to work, they coming home, they picking up their kids, they going through shopping. People are busy, they're tired. You turn on the news, there's some bs Right? And, and then it's like, man, I don't, I don't even want to deal with that. Let me just deal with my life. But to your point, and I, you know, I don't want to leave us on a down note on this topic.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

Like the fact that someone like me, who used to be like that, like, I didn't give a. About politics, I keep that away from me. It's a bunch of white men talking. Some they lying. It's whatever, whatever from someone like me to go from that to actually running for Congress and winning.

[Ebro Darden]

Crazy.

[Jamal Bowman]

Becoming the first person of color in history to be in that congressional seat and then making an impact while I was there. That's why I'm still plugged in. That's why I'm still fired up. That's why I'm still passionate. Because. And, and then the Zoran piggyback on that.

[Ebro Darden]

Boom.

[Jamal Bowman]

And then Katie Wilson in Seattle. Well, and then, so now we, you know, Chris Rabb a couple days ago in Pennsylvania, Democratic Socialist wins. Boom. Charles Booker. So now we stacking up wins. That keeps me hyping, keeps me going and keeps me wanting to pull people in.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Well, for the audience, that's just learning about you. Can you. What was the turning point of you? You were an educator. You're a principal, right? You're a principal. What made you decide? All right, well, it's time for me to run.

[Jamal Bowman]

So, Yeah, I was 20 years in education, started out teaching in the South Bronx. So first I was a teacher in the South Bronx for a couple years, then a high school dean of students and guidance counselor for three years. And I was like, you know what? This education system ain't working. It's bullshit for our kids. I want to open up my own school. So wrote a proposal submitted to New York City, and they was like, you can open up your school. And I was 33, founding principal of a school, ran that school for 10 years. We became number one in New York City in 2016. We did great, great work, but kids were still dying in the streets, you know what I mean? And, like, I'm born and raised in New York. I've lost friends to Gun violence. I have friends do 20, 30 years in prison. And my whole, like, mission in life is to change that, you know what I'm saying? So kids was dying, and in my school specifically, I saw a rise in self harm.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Jamal Bowman]

Particularly among girls and particularly among Latinas.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

And I started Googling. I'm like, what's going on here? And. And it was a nationwide thing. It was like more kids are presenting with mental health issues, suicide ideation, self harm. And Latinos were like, at the top of the list. And all around me, kids were dying. And I would go to elected officials to talk about it, and they would just. Man, it was just over the head. They didn't have no sense of urgency about our kids in our communities. And the congressman at the time that was there wasn't active, wasn't present, wasn't doing anything. So I was like, man, fuck it, I'm running for Congress. But I had the confidence because just two years prior, AOC wins in 2018.

[Ebro Darden]

Bronx.

[Jamal Bowman]

Correct. Right. And I was a principal in the Bronx. And two years before that was Bernie's presidential run. And the squad was now in Congress. At this time I'm making this decision. So I'm watching Ayanna Presley, Ilhan Omar, Rashida, and they're just four women. I mean, you can't. It needs to be a movie about this. Four women of color, one Somalian refugee with a hijab, little as hell. When you meet Ilhan, a force of nature. Ayanna, Rashida and aoc I'm watching them. I'm like, okay, I could do that.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Right?

[Jamal Bowman]

That's my politics.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Right, right, right.

[Jamal Bowman]

So then, you know, I just finished my doctorate and I'm, you know, I wanted to be like a superintendent, but the. It was time to get out the system. I was like, you know what, man? I'm gonna run for Congress. And I ran, you know, made a bunch of calls, got the support I needed. Shit was hard work. I wrote about it in my book. Coming out soon. Coming out soon. Very cool. And. And we fucking win.

[Ebro Darden]

How did you. How did you. How did you raise money? Like, I mean, besides, like.

[Jamal Bowman]

Great, great question again. This is all in the book. So I lay it out, the reason, and I wrote the book this way because I want other people who run for office to have a blueprint. Like, it's just like. It's like the day from my decision to say I'm running to when I want out, wrote it. So blueprint. And it's kind of exciting because Hot Mic Moment. And this is pretty cool, but you got to just call people. You call. So first thing I did was call everybody in my phone. I was like, hey, I'm doing this thing. I'm running for Congress. Would love to have your support. Can you give $100? Can you give $50? Can you give whatever. Whatever I thought they could give based on you. My man who walk on Wall Street. Can you max me out? My homeboy, who was a teacher, can you do.

[Ebro Darden]

And what was the max out?

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, the max out was, I think, 2700 at this time. Now it's like 3300. But the first thing you do is call everybody in your phone, even if you hadn't talked to them in a while, because they're going to be happy to hear from you and they're going to be excited that you're running and they're going to help. Right. If you wasn't an. It wasn't.

[Ebro Darden]

Right. Assuming it's someone that didn't end badly.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So you call everybody on your phone. And then from that, we raised $30,000.

[Laura Rosenberg]

All right?

[Jamal Bowman]

And then with that 30,000, we got flyers, and then we just started knocking on doors a full year before the election. This is all important because I've had people reach out to me in March for a June election. Like, y', all, I'm running for Congress. I'm like, come on, you bugging, right? I was like, how much money? How much have you raised? And they'll tell me some number. I'm like, you're bugging. I'm like, are you doing call time?

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

And they'll say no. And like, you're not serious, right? Listen, I hate big money in politics. We should get it out of politics. We're talking about small dollars, and if you're not willing to do the call time work, you're not serious. And so anyway, that's, you know, that's. That's the decision to run, and that's how I raise money. And. And that raising money, you know, that call time. So I went from calling everybody on my phone to calling complete strangers on a list that I got from somewhere. And by the end of the race, we. We raised 770,000.

[Laura Rosenberg]

That's amazing.

[Jamal Bowman]

And then when Elliot Engel Rosenberg, you remember this? Oh, yeah, I just. Hot mic moment. We raised 110,000 on that one day and then raised.

[Ebro Darden]

What was said in the hot mic moment again?

[Jamal Bowman]

He said, so after George Floyd was killed, you remember all the protests? There was protests in the Bronx The Bronx elected leaders called a press conference to tell people to chill, stop burning down the Bronx. And Engel shows up and no one has seen him in a while, so he wasn't on the speaking list. So Ruben Diaz Jr, Bronxborough president, he came to Ruby Diaz Juniors. I cannot get a sponsor speaking lesson. And Ruby Daddy was like, nah, you know, we. Everybody's already, we got the agenda. We don't want to be here all day. So Engel says, he pulls down his mask and he says, if I didn't have a primary, I wouldn't care. And Ruben Diaz Jr. Said, what did you say? And he repeated it. If I didn't have a primary, I wouldn't care.

[Ebro Darden]

So that is. Yo, that means he said it twice.

[Jamal Bowman]

He said it twice.

[Ebro Darden]

Didn't even.

[Laura Rosenberg]

He meant it. He meant.

[Ebro Darden]

Why would you say that to another? Because, I mean, his politicians know each other and it's like, oh, maybe you'd understand that, like, I don't really care about, but this is like a major thing that everybody actually cares.

[Jamal Bowman]

Global protests against police brutality.

[Ebro Darden]

Something that you. No, no. That you like, should. And if you. Yeah, but the fact that he thought it was okay to say it twice.

[Jamal Bowman]

So I'm doing call time in my crib. I get a call from someone in the street who's just out there. It's like, yo, Jamal, you heard what Engel just said. I'm like, nah, what are you talking about? What do you say? He said, had a problem, he wouldn't care. I was like, what are you talking about? He said, go to Facebook Live and watch. I went to Facebook Live, saw the clip of him saying it. I copy and paste it into my group chat for the campaign. And Waleed Shahid shout out to Waleed says, oh, this his career is over. We clip it. We give it to Emily Nung from New York. One in the Hour has a million views. It leads every news show across the country at the end of that night. And we raise $110,000 that day. A normal day for me raising was like 2000.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Wow.

[Jamal Bowman]

Right?

[Ebro Darden]

So that's that. And by the way, now remember when you ended up losing in 2024 to an APAC backed candidate, how much money did that candidate have in the campaign?

[Jamal Bowman]

20 million.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Dang.

[Ebro Darden]

And we're talking about 100,000 being like an earth shattering change for your campaign.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, I know.

[Ebro Darden]

And you're ending up going up against someone who's able to have 20 million million.

[Jamal Bowman]

20 million. They spent 25 million overall in 2024. And just a couple days ago, Thomas Massie APAC attacked him in Kentucky and they spent 35 million. So I used to be the most expensive primary until this cycle when APAC spent 35 million. Crazy, man.

[Ebro Darden]

It's. I just. I. I wish I loved anything in life the way the APAC freaks loved Israel. Or see, or at least seemingly do, because I don't even fully understand the song. Wow, that. That's a. That's a fascinating story.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, man.

[Ebro Darden]

And that's gonna be a great book. What's the name of the book? You have a name of it yet?

[Jamal Bowman]

Unpolished.

[Ebro Darden]

Ah, I was wondering. It's a shirt that he's wearing. Now I get it.

[Jamal Bowman]

Let's go.

[Ebro Darden]

And do you have a date yet?

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, early November.

[Ebro Darden]

Early November.

[Jamal Bowman]

Early November, yes. Which been tough because you know, publishers, they tell you 12 to 18 months.

[Laura Rosenberg]

This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get [e-mail]. own the dream.

[Ebro Darden]

You thought this was your run club era.

[Jamal Bowman]

Turns out it was more of a thinking about Run club era.

[Ebro Darden]

The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit, and you get a payout for trying.

[Jamal Bowman]

Someone on depop wants what you've got. Start selling now, depop. Where taste recognizes taste.

[Ebro Darden]

The road to the NBA Finals ends here, with star guard setting the tone. The Cavs eye another upset, while the Knicks carry the dreams of all of New York. The Eastern Conference finals continue on ESPN and abc.

[Jamal Bowman]

Like, y' all finished. It's finished. It's edited. Why are we waiting? Let's put. I want to put it out before the midterms. So early November.

[Ebro Darden]

Now. Now. I have a good statistic to hit you with to. To follow along with unlikely victories, which is the theme of Jamal Bowman's election back then. Teams up 20 plus points in the final seven minutes of the fourth quarter of a playoff game were 643 and. Oh, wow. Until Tuesday night, the New York Knicks. How high are you off this? Knicks. They're back at it again tonight. Game 2.

[Jamal Bowman]

At the Garden tonight. Yes, that's right, man. I'm keeping my composure. Keeping my composure.

[Ebro Darden]

Are you a longtime hardcore Knicks fan?

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

Your real deal, I mean.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes. So, like, you remember.

[Ebro Darden]

You remember Anthony Mason in the Diamond D video for Best Kept?

[Jamal Bowman]

I mean, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, that's right. Raised in farmers.

[Ebro Darden]

No, no, by the way, that's a. You're going to the little sample part of the song. Yeah. What's strong? Yeah, you can't ask. I'm too old.

[Jamal Bowman]

Farmers. Farmers is in Queens.

[Ebro Darden]

No, farmers in Queens. But that is what it sounds like. Oh, you know what? We might have to play Raised in a Forest.

[Jamal Bowman]

Raised in the forest. Raised in forests.

[Ebro Darden]

But, yeah, what does forest mean?

[Jamal Bowman]

Isn't that a project?

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, forest projects.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have me.

[Ebro Darden]

No, I think you're right.

[Jamal Bowman]

I want no smoke, by the way. That's.

[Ebro Darden]

No, that's one of those. That's one of those songs, though, Best Kept Secret, where that. That samples part. You're talking about. Diamond D. Yeah, yeah. Raised in forest. Rapper tries to dissolve. Let's see. I think you got it right.

[Jamal Bowman]

Of course.

[Ebro Darden]

Listen, if you don't know about this, folks, you want to talk Big bx.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, there's no.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Just a clip. We don't want to get pulled down.

[Ebro Darden]

Just a clip.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Hurry, hurry.

[Ebro Darden]

Anthony Mason in the video.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah,

[Ebro Darden]

I'm gonna skip to the chorus so we can get this part right. I'm very impressed, by the way.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

I didn't know when I dropped that reference point that A, you would know the song or video, and B, remember the hook.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, of course. I mean, I know that

[Ebro Darden]

some might

[Jamal Bowman]

say I'm whack, but in fact.

[Ebro Darden]

All right, here we go in the chorus.

[Jamal Bowman]

See, I'm the best kept secret, so shut the fuck up and people come on.

[Ebro Darden]

Raised in forest. I guess it is. Ray Forest project.

[Jamal Bowman]

Raising forest. Yeah, yeah, see, I know. Listen, that's why when, you know, the Internet tries to come at Joe, I'm

[Ebro Darden]

like, y' all bugging because you remember.

[Jamal Bowman]

I remember Joe with ditc.

[Ebro Darden]

But let me ask you about the controversial issue of all controversial issues is Bascom showed you a little taste of the video there. You can show it again. Young Diamond D. Shout out Diamond D, my guy.

[Jamal Bowman]

Of course. Yo.

[Ebro Darden]

This video is so old school and grimy that even the one they have on YouTube is. The tape is messing up. Let me ask you. I didn't know we'd bring this up, but why not? It's a subject that comes up all the time.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Okay.

[Ebro Darden]

Where do you fall? Do you know where I'm going?

[Jamal Bowman]

I think I know where you're going.

[Ebro Darden]

The Puerto Rican N word conversation that comes up all the time because it's one of those things that obviously I just don't weigh in on at all. But as a hip hop fan, as a spectator, and as someone who knows these people.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

It always seems like context gets removed on Twitter and it shifts sort of the conversation. But as you proud black man, community leader from the Bronx, also from the places, though, that J. Lo's from, that Joe's from.

[Jamal Bowman]

Raised during the same time, raised in

[Ebro Darden]

the same time as. As people like that. But Joe and J. Lo and Pun will sometimes get thrown into this.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

Things. Where do you fall on that issue?

[Jamal Bowman]

It's a nothing burger for me. I mean, that's. We were all raised together. Like, we was all in East Harlem. We was all in the Bronx. Like, we all was raised together. Lived together. That's how we talk to each other. We called each other the N word constantly. I still use it, you know, when I'm with my friends in private spaces and they're trying.

[Ebro Darden]

That's a key part that you added. And they're trying friends in private spaces,

[Jamal Bowman]

and they're trying to get me to even not do it there. Right. But it's a habit right from. From. From childhood. But, yo, it's a nothing burger to me. It's people who, you know, it's New York. New York. If you were raised in New York at a different time, in this certain time, in a certain community, that's just what it was.

[Ebro Darden]

Here's the thing, I think that a lot of people fail to understand is that because people will say, like, oh, well, if that's the case, then why can't little Stevie say it? And it's like the fact that that has to be explained to why there's a difference of other people of color who live in the same area, speaking of the same language, as opposed to someone who lives in the suburbs and is not in that situation. Also, there's another thing that's important because there are people who pull this. Respectfully, I've known some Italian folks who pulled this move. They think they can pull the N word with the A when they're around people of color, but then when they're around white people and family members at home, they might use it with the er and think that they really might

[Jamal Bowman]

and think it's okay.

[Ebro Darden]

I know. And really think, like, nah, but it's not. No, bro.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I just don't understand how you can ever think that's okay. Like what?

[Ebro Darden]

I don't know that they think it's okay. They wouldn't admit it. They wouldn't acknowledge the fact that there are people in their life at least, who are using it with the er, but then they're also in a place to comfortably drop. Nah, bro. And so anyways, not my business whatsoever. But I always watch it and go. It's interesting that people see Joe and Pun that way. It feels like this is where we've been talking about this a lot recently. There are things about the world that also were different 30 years ago. And if you try to judge everything in the exact same way in 2026 in that lens, that if you try to judge 1998 in a 2026 lens, you may run into some problems, of course, with people who at the time were good. But when you apply the standards 30 years later, it may not hit exactly right. Now, let's get into a more current hip hop conversation. Gillian Wallow had a very action packed episode. I know we're gonna get to some in the rundown.

[Laura Rosenberg]

We are.

[Ebro Darden]

But before we even get to that, they also had an interesting conversation. Since we know that Jamal's a big hip hop head. We're three hip hop heads here. They had a conversation. French and Max were on the show and they started talking about all time great Philly rappers. Thought this was a Fun conversation. Top 10 Philly artists of all time. The same list that we got for New York. Give me a top 10. Will Smith, Gil Smith. Beanie really went to Gilly. Second, the Roots. Now from one to 10. Ain't no order.

[Jamal Bowman]

Will Smith, I want order.

[Ebro Darden]

And Gil Smith, Beanie Siegel, Freeway, the Roots, Bahama Dia.

[Jamal Bowman]

I like Bahama. I like Bahama Dia. You ain't on the list though, cuz. Out of here.

[Ebro Darden]

Ain't no, ain't no. First of all, I like how you threw yourself in the list. Number two. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. I know we do a lot of playing, but let's be for real. Let's be for real. Everybody was going crazy. That was me and Meek. The Are we talking about Pandemonium came out for my. Is you talking about? I pull up Panda, you was in jail. I a see that. You talking about.

[Jamal Bowman]

I ain't see that.

[Ebro Darden]

I wasn't signed. Every label tried to sign me. Jay z, this video. 50 Cent tried to sign me, right? Chris War, he gave me some money. Cash money. That's right, Cot. Yeah, he was A hell of a backup head. I was a good ass, yo. So hilarious. So it turns into. If you can't quite follow what happens, it turns into them just giving Gilly a hard time for putting himself on the list. And Wallow's just saying you're not on the list.

[Jamal Bowman]

Right, right, right, right.

[Ebro Darden]

The way that Wallow and Gilly go at each other is nothing short of comedic brilliance.

[Laura Rosenberg]

It's so funny.

[Ebro Darden]

Like every post that they put up where they're just going at each other because of that real familial love that they have is so amazing. Gilly, you're not on the list. Stop.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I'm sorry.

[Ebro Darden]

Gilly ain't on the top 10 ever. From Philly. Great writer. We know that. There's no question about it. I love the clip that we're going to play in the rundown of Max is so counter to the fact that all he said in this clip was how much he loved Bahama Dia over and over again. But, but, but Gilly, there's so many names Gilly didn't get to on this on this list. I mean, first of all, you can't just throw out the roots. You have to really be, there has

[Jamal Bowman]

to be black thoughts.

[Ebro Darden]

No. And by the way, and you got to show love to Dice Raw Malik B as well.

[Laura Rosenberg]

But, but the mc.

[Ebro Darden]

But I think, I think Black Thought is when you, when you specific. I mean, listen, everyone in the Roots can rhyme. All of them can rhyme. But I really do think that everyone knows Black Thought is one of the greatest of all time.

[Laura Rosenberg]

And I think he's number one.

[Ebro Darden]

Number one from Philly of all time. Yeah, it's probably, it's tough considering people put him as the number. There are people who have as the number one MC overall of all time. I can see that it's hard to argue. Listen, who, who would be even in the conversation?

[Jamal Bowman]

Who would even be in the conversation?

[Ebro Darden]

By the way, for me, I, I put Corrupt very high in the list of all time MCs from Philly.

[Jamal Bowman]

Does that count?

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah, that's just where he's from.

[Jamal Bowman]

I mean, yeah, but he don't know him as a rapper from the west Coast.

[Ebro Darden]

I understand that. But he is straight up from Philly. Like I, I, I do understand.

[Jamal Bowman]

You can New York claim Michael Jordan,

[Ebro Darden]

but Michael was born here. Michael went to North Carolina, I think when he was two years old.

[Jamal Bowman]

When did Corrupt go to Philly?

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, as a teenager.

[Jamal Bowman]

Okay.

[Ebro Darden]

As like a late.

[Jamal Bowman]

Was he rapping in Philly?

[Ebro Darden]

Yes, Corrupt was rapping in Philly.

[Jamal Bowman]

Got it.

[Ebro Darden]

Okay, I need the exact timeline. Louis, can you give me the exact timeline? I need to know when corrupt left Philadelphia. Let's see.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I just. I don't know, cuz it's like, then. Then it's like beans.

[Ebro Darden]

How about beans? Yes. Safely. Beanie is in the. Is in the conversation.

[Laura Rosenberg]

And I want to throw even there.

[Ebro Darden]

Eve is certainly warranted to be in the conversation if we're. If we're talking about modern day. I think I know this is very early. I think Tierra Whack is brilliant.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yes. She's amazing. Tierra Whack is amazing. Super creative and super lyrical.

[Ebro Darden]

She can do everything.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah. I'm waiting for y' all to get to it.

[Ebro Darden]

Hold on. Est from three times, dope.

[Jamal Bowman]

I want to see how it takes for y' all to get to the

[Ebro Darden]

name that Schooly D. I put Cassidy. Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

Is Meek Mill not from.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Oh, my God. Yes, yes, yes.

[Jamal Bowman]

Okay. Because I'm bugging all over it, by

[Ebro Darden]

the way, because that's crazy.

[Jamal Bowman]

Because in my head, as soon as we stop talking black thought, we talk Meek Mill. Yeah, that's in my head. So I don't.

[Ebro Darden]

Is Meek number two?

[Jamal Bowman]

Meek is a special talent.

[Ebro Darden]

Special.

[Jamal Bowman]

No.

[Ebro Darden]

Meek's incredible ranking.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I hate. I hate it.

[Ebro Darden]

You hate what ranking?

[Laura Rosenberg]

I hate right now. I hate it because I'm like, oh,

[Jamal Bowman]

so just from my point of view, right? So I'm. I'm. I'm a stuck in the 90s, dude, which I'm not proud of.

[Ebro Darden]

That's.

[Jamal Bowman]

I. I would. I would love for someone to sit. I would love to go to a listening party where you just give me all this from, like 2010 to now that I probably missed. Okay. Like Wale or whoever. Like, I don't even know there, you

[Ebro Darden]

know, you missed Wale all together. Go listen to his most recent album, It's Fire Dog.

[Jamal Bowman]

I got into education and I was trying anyway, but when I go back and listen to stuff and I listen to Meek Mill, I'm like, this dude is spectacular. Like, he is a special talent.

[Ebro Darden]

So we get an answer on when Corrupt Love Philly. 1989, at the age of 16. 1989. The age of 16.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yep. I don't know how much time between that and. And the Dog Pound album.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, the album, six years.

[Jamal Bowman]

Not the Dog Pound album.

[Ebro Darden]

Snoop album, four years. Four years, yeah. It was made. Started being made three years later.

[Jamal Bowman]

So, I mean, he argue he was made in Philly.

[Ebro Darden]

That's what I'm saying. Like, and I just. To me, corrupt is fascinating because he always sounds to me like Philly and la. Like, he very much sounds like la. But his DNA of how he raps, the rapity, rapidness of it, I hear the Philly in his DNA. So to me, in my brain, I always hear Philly, even though he is definitely la. Also, listen, some people can rep two

[Laura Rosenberg]

places, and I think, look at Tupac. He's born in New York.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, listen, Tupac's a chameleon. Tupac represents everywhere, if we want to be honest. No, this is the little part that people don't want to say about Pac. God bless him. Tupac repped the West. He's literally the poster boy for the West. You want to talk about not being from the West? Tupac is more from Jersey than the West. He's more from Baltimore than the West. Yo, he ran around New York. And by the way, and I don't say this is disrespect. This wasn't Tupac's fault. This is who he was running with and the way that the industry propped him up. But Tupac was much more than the west.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Even though he repped the West. This is him.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, no, this is him. Although the real true poster boy should be Snoop. When you talk about the West. Yeah, right.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

Because he doesn't have roots anywhere else but Long Beach. Like, it is. It is the West. Sorry, Lou, you're gonna say something. I was gonna say if the guy from the West Coast, Suge Knight, got me out of jail too. When I feel like I need to be out of jail. I'm west coast as well. No one from Baltimore bailed me out. Jada Pinkett. Jada Pinkett from my school in Baltimore didn't show up. It was Sugar showed up. So I guess his west side. Till I die, he said. I mean, listen. So it. Okay, so how about this? How do we feel about this? Number one, Black Thought.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Mm.

[Ebro Darden]

Number two, Meek. Okay, well, listen, Meek. Meek is huge. Meek has. If we're being honest, Dreams and Nightmares might be the biggest Philly record besides Summertime, essentially, of all time.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

Right. And Summertime, as much as I love. It's a great hip hop record. Talking about Dreams and Nightmares is one that sets things off in a different way.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Thanks.

[Ebro Darden]

And it may be the biggest Philly record of all time, so I have no problem with that.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

Question Beans is, I think top five as well.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, I was gonna go to Bean Seagullia next, but. So how do. How do. How does the industry or the culture feel about the Championships album?

[Ebro Darden]

I don't know that there's a strong universal. I think that. I think the problem with Meek would be is I don't know that there's a universally loved Meek album.

[Jamal Bowman]

Right?

[Ebro Darden]

You agree with that, Louie? Yeah. And I would say the Championships, you have a microphone bascom connected to your goddamn head. Pull it in front of your mouth. Pause. What were you saying?

[Jamal Bowman]

I just said that would be one of them Championships.

[Ebro Darden]

Championships.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

But the thing is, I just don't think, like. I just don't think he has. That, to me is the hardest part for me is. Go ahead. Well, I would say that I think people might look at it almost as the comeback album after the Drake situation as well.

[Jamal Bowman]

So that's where I was going, right? So for him to get demolished in the Drake battle, right, with Back to back and all of that, and then for him to respond and recover with Championships, I ran that album into the ground.

[Ebro Darden]

Even though you hadn't listened to anything from the 90s, correct? Since the 90s.

[Jamal Bowman]

No, that's an exaggeration. But yes, pretty much. Right. There were some albums I would pick up. I picked up Championships. I ran that into the ground. And not just the songs for the ladies and the hit records, but, like, that album, again, is another display of just his lyrical genius and prowess. Like, Meek is no joke.

[Ebro Darden]

Hold on. Meek. I love Meek, and I can't believe I didn't think of him sooner. That's crazy. I was trying too hard. I was like. My brain was going to all these other places and I was staring right past the thing that's the most obvious thing in the world.

[Jamal Bowman]

Beanie clearly number three. Because Beanie's another one who's underrated and fire.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, I think the thing is, Beanie also, you know, may suffer from the same issue about, like, what is his, you know, is the truth. An album that, like, that many people sort to. I'm looking right now at Championships 2018. Uptown Vibes is Crazy on Me is pretty cool. What's Free is very good. Championships going bad with Drake. Yeah, no, it's a. It is a really good record. This is a really good record. I think also, though, like, even though Will, from a rapidy rap standpoint, isn't in the combo with the rest of

[Jamal Bowman]

them, you really gotta be up there.

[Ebro Darden]

You can't. You can't look past how big. He's the dj, I'm the rapper was how big a hit Summertime is. And then for, you know, us old heads, songs like Brand New Funk that are just, you know, and here we Go again. That are just like great classic hip hop records. People don't realize before any of the TV that Jazz Jeff and the Fresh Prince are like. And then the truth is, though, because hip hop history in Philly is so rich and so is our R and B and everything soul. But. But we're talking top five MCs. It almost feels criminal to talk top hip hop Philly and not mention Jazzy Jeff, even though he's a dj, because to me, he's the greatest DJ who ever lived.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

Like, I so sort of not talk about this guy who. And then on top of that, helped facilitate these sounds of so many incredible artists who came from Philly. Like, Jeff is just so important and tied to Philly as well. Philly's one of the great hip hop cities. So thanks to Gillian Wallow for.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, right.

[Ebro Darden]

Having a. Having a conversation that. That led to such fun stuff. And with that, Laura Styles.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Let's go.

[Ebro Darden]

When she. We pull up headlines heavy, but we still caught up. Life still flashing. We don't slow.

[Laura Rosenberg]

All right, so on that, play this Max B video back to Gillian Wall. Yes, yes, yes. Where the headlines say that he says he's better than Pig Daddy Kane. Let's watch this.

[Ebro Darden]

If they did a top hundred list. Where you at on that list? On the top Hunted. Yeah. Respectfully speaking. Listen, after, after, after Big J and

[Jamal Bowman]

Nas, you could put me anywhere on that right after that. That's how I feel about it.

[Ebro Darden]

Don't say 90 because anyway, that could be 98. No, I'm just saying you said you could put you anywhere.

[Jamal Bowman]

I put me after them. You can't. You can't really. You know what I'm saying? Who you gonna.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, let me, Let me. Let me check you on that. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm a hip hop historian. Let me get. Let me get this right. So you said remove them three from the equation.

[Jamal Bowman]

You said after Big J, Nas.

[Ebro Darden]

Let's just don't even put them up there. Let me finish the list. You might.

[Jamal Bowman]

You might even finish at the Big

[Ebro Darden]

J, Nas, dmx, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane.

[Jamal Bowman]

Okay, well, Kim is. That's another God. It's a God. Big Daddy Kane.

[Ebro Darden]

Ll, they didn't even have a Big Daddy. Can't with Big Daddy. How about this? They didn't even. With ll, they didn't even have Big Daddy. Can these.

[Jamal Bowman]

You name it. Even by Kim.

[Ebro Darden]

Okay, that can't sing.

[Jamal Bowman]

And with these hoes like me. Hold the up.

[Ebro Darden]

I know I'm a triple quadruple threat.

[Jamal Bowman]

I track all the boxes when it come to music.

[Ebro Darden]

Wait, wait, why? Why did people try to take this very seriously? Why did people try to turn this into a serious conversation?

[Laura Rosenberg]

It's a great clip though because then

[Ebro Darden]

there's another clip where he says basically his run is longer than Big Daddy Kane's also. Yeah, that was more of the controversy, right? Yes, because he was being kind of serious about that like that his run was longer. And I don't think people were saying like wait a second. Kane may have had a run on top of that was like four years long, but Kane is still crushing shows right now. Like Kane is out we speak 150 times a year doing great, looking great, put money his bank account, doing his thing. So I think people were taking that part at least video from Max. Oh, please.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yo, what's good man? Hey. Wow. Hey, wallow. Look, you my.

[Ebro Darden]

I love you Kane. You my too, right? But you know, you know when you let me down.

[Jamal Bowman]

Wait. Cuz I was a young boy.

[Ebro Darden]

I was about 11. Is he going to bring up taste of when you came out, you was

[Jamal Bowman]

that to that third album. You let me down. When I saw this. Set it off. That's not wavy baby. Sexual chocolate. I'm on your ass. Ah. Then you showed me the show. That was a nice show

[Ebro Darden]

but I

[Jamal Bowman]

don't know where the that was at. Let me show you what New York look like on the back to back. Big veil weekend, Saturday and Sunday.

[Ebro Darden]

And I ain't been home out this 60 days.

[Jamal Bowman]

Bam. Wait a minute. Wait.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Oh my God.

[Ebro Darden]

Well so, so, so he's doubling down a little bit.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

But Kane hasn't said anything so he respond. That was a response video to himself. Kane never said anything in between. There is no response.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I mean I haven't seen anything.

[Ebro Darden]

Listen, I love Max turning into promo. It's a lot of fun. Max B. Listen, I once famously I ended up having to go to HR over Max B. I need Max to know any criticism I give of Max B. Because he ain't in no top 10 from New York or anything like that. God bless him. So happy he's home. He's endlessly entertaining, really good artists. Very excited to see what he does the him and French projects. Great. All that stuff. All of it, all of it, all of it. But just know if I'm critical. I also once got into a fight so animated with a producer that she called HR on me. Blame Ebro, by the way. This is a producer Ebro brought in thought would be a great idea to work with me and Sife. He was wrong. And we got into a fight because one day we were talking about Max B. Off the air. This is, like, 2010. And she's like, I don't know who Max B.

[Jamal Bowman]

Is.

[Ebro Darden]

Nobody cares. Blah, blah. And of course, I pounced on that. And I'm like, wait, wait, what'd you say? She was like, I don't know who that is, and I don't care. And I started. I'm like, you produce a morning show in New York, and you don't know who Max B. Is? We got into this huge fight that ended with me calling her ignorant. I was like, you are ignorant. I said, wait a second. We are telling you. Everyone in the room is telling you. This person is important. And if he got out of jail tomorrow, our plan. I remember this argument so well. Our plans for the morning show would change, and all we would talk about is that Max B. Was home. And you are telling us in this room you don't know and you don't want to know. That is the definition of willful ignorance. And I got sent to hr. She tried to say I was being racist.

[Jamal Bowman]

Racist, yes.

[Ebro Darden]

And I went to hr, and our HR lady was like, yeah, Our HR

[Laura Rosenberg]

lady at the time was so funny.

[Ebro Darden]

She's super funny and cool and knew me.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

And I was like. And she was like. And I was like, okay. I was like, I'm allowed to tell someone if they're being ignorant. I'm sorry, you can't tell me you produce a morning show in New York City and you don't care who Max B. Is. This is the time, you know, we're just a couple of years removed from when it happened.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

So, like, it was as big a deal as it is now. It was even a bigger deal, you know, 15 years ago. But anyways, congrats to Max. Thank you for sharing. All I could. And all I could think about when I watched that conversation, and I'm sure Gillian Wallow had the same thought, is who's gonna put Max B. On a podcast because he's funny, bro.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Oh, what, you mean like. Like, coach him so he can have his own. Okay, okay.

[Ebro Darden]

Or him.

[Jamal Bowman]

Who's.

[Ebro Darden]

Who's the right combo for Max to have a podcast with? Yeah, because I don't think he's an A Mike. I mean, who knows? Maybe after time, he could be. At this moment, I wouldn't think he could be your A mic, but you could have another rap person. Like, I mean, frankly, even. Why is someone FaceTiming Ebro's laptop. I'm gonna go ahead and not answer this.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, don't answer.

[Jamal Bowman]

Can I explicitly respond to.

[Ebro Darden]

Yes, I'd like.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, real quick. So Max B. Is not wrong about, like, back in the days, Kane had two phenomenal albums. And then on the third album, there was this pivot where we was like. He went for it, like, what's going on here? Right? It was like just. It was. It was softer. It was like, no, he's going for the ladies, tastes the ladies, man, and all that. And we was like. We was upset about that. Like, I remember.

[Ebro Darden]

It was a thing. He's not making that up.

[Jamal Bowman]

It was absolutely a thing. Right? All of that being said, like, Kane just saw two albums. If you just want to use those two albums is like, arguably on the Mount Rushmore of hip hop.

[Ebro Darden]

Facts. All right. Not Mount Rushmore, but, I mean, are you.

[Jamal Bowman]

Well, you could. You could debate. You could debate.

[Ebro Darden]

You'd lose. But it's a good argument.

[Jamal Bowman]

It's a good. I mean, he's up there. Those first two albums are incredible. Like, Rafa came, set it off. And I mean, like, he has songs that are like, we know.

[Ebro Darden]

But then Smooth Operator popped off, and he was like, let me keep going this direction.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, yeah, he went a little too far.

[Ebro Darden]

But.

[Jamal Bowman]

But Kane is. Is beyond reproach when it comes. When it comes to these sort of conversations. But Max B. Is right about. At that time, like. And then the funny thing is, on Kane's fourth album, I don't know who was. Who was managing him. He came out with an album where on the album cover, he was standing in front of the projects with a black hoodie on, and I was like. And that was like, him trying to show us, like, he's hard again. You know what I'm saying? So it was just. It was just. It was disorder that was.

[Ebro Darden]

Looks like a job for.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, yeah. It was like, okay, now we. Yeah, we messed up. But one last thing. If you really want to know about Kane and you really want to know about just that era and that essence, the Kane Karras one versus Is.

[Ebro Darden]

Were you there?

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

Me too.

[Jamal Bowman]

I was there.

[Ebro Darden]

I was a great night.

[Jamal Bowman]

We didn't see each other.

[Ebro Darden]

Nope. Didn't see each other there either.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Is it online?

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

You can probably find it.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes. It's on YouTube.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

But that. That verses was incredible. And Kane. I left there thinking Kane won. And I remember the next day that Ebro was like. It was like, Bo Garden and Keras one, one Not Ebro Bogarten. Yeah, right. But I remember leaving thinking Kane won because Charis one was, like, doing the crowd thing, like, getting the crowd in and skipping words in his. Kane wrapped every single syllable of every word of every rhyme and every song performed that night. And he was incredible. So, anyway, I'll.

[Ebro Darden]

I. I am. I'm with you. Kane is. Long Live the Cane is an absolute masterpiece, beginning to end. And I've seen him perform so many times. He's always so good. He's such a gentleman. He's such a great representation for old school.

[Jamal Bowman]

He's professional.

[Ebro Darden]

Such a professional. So cool. Yes. I think he. I think he has spoken about some of the missteps that they went when they tried to go. Way too smoothed out Teddy Riley vibes. It didn't work out. But Kane. Yo, Max, you. I hope you have a great career. You ain't never standing next to Big Daddy Kane, my guy. I hope you have the best career ever. Matter of fact, French, Gilly Wallow. Anybody else, you could form a super group. You're never standing next to Big Daddy Kane. Long Live the Cane alone. Is that cover.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

We don't give it. It's that moment in time is up there with the most epic, iconic things that have ever happened to hip hop. And one thing I don't want us to do, and I'm guilty of this too, sometimes, is sometimes because you just want to see representation for the old school in general. Maybe I end up focusing too much on Rakim. And you really, you cannot leave Kane out of that conversation. Just like you can't leave KRS out of it either. But, like, I really think when it came to, like, rap changing in this way, and it started with Run dmc, but I really do believe. My belief is that Rakim and Kane took it to this next place of where you could go with rapping. And obviously. And Chris was right there, too. Oh, you have a lowdown.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I don't have a lowdown. But you know what I do have?

[Ebro Darden]

What?

[Laura Rosenberg]

I do have a note that it says, it's time for the Gurus.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, that's what you were trying to say? When you mouth something to me again, I want to blame Jamal. He took us onto a tangent.

[Jamal Bowman]

Sorry about that.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Theoriesmail.com theoriginalgurusmail.com that's where you write to us. Having a problem? We got you. TheOriginalGurusmail.com Let me burn some sage, Rosenberg. Who's out there? Who's writing to us? Who needs our help?

[Ebro Darden]

Hold on. Laura, I'm pulling up the gmail. All right. The original gurusmail.com. the original gurusmail.Com. your destination, for clarity. All right, here we go. This was less a relationship and a romantic relationship and more a business relationship. Okay, where the hell did it go? Ah, sorry. Hold on. I had. Wasn't there. Give me a second.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Don't you hate when you want to show something to somebody and then it refreshes and you're like, damn, it went away.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, it keeps. It keeps changing off of the one I wanted to read that Griff sent me earlier. I don't know, like, it's like, really weird. Hold on.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Doesn't want to be read.

[Ebro Darden]

No, it's gonna get read. Damn it. Here it is. Backstabbing business owners.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Okay, okay.

[Ebro Darden]

All right. I want to express my sincere gratitude to each of you. Blah, blah, blah. You love us.

[Jamal Bowman]

Okay.

[Ebro Darden]

Thank you so much. Over the past seven months, I've been exploring, quote, the lifestyle.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Does that mean. Wait, what lifestyle? The lifestyle. Okay, keep going, keep going. The lifestyle.

[Ebro Darden]

Do you know he made a face? He made a face.

[Jamal Bowman]

Going somewhere?

[Laura Rosenberg]

My face is confused. You look like you know what he's talking about.

[Ebro Darden]

Usually when people say the lifestyle, I mean, I want.

[Jamal Bowman]

I want to hear the next.

[Ebro Darden]

But you think, you think, you think. Are you thinking pimping or are you thinking swinging?

[Jamal Bowman]

I'm think. I'm thinking in that universe.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah, for sure. The lifestyle. Let me tell you what, by the way, ear muffin for the kids, they're talking about. That's when I hear the lifestyle. That's what I hear.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I was thinking like, effing who?

[Ebro Darden]

Effing who?

[Laura Rosenberg]

Like who. Like fucking who? I want to say that no one

[Jamal Bowman]

expected to hear you say such.

[Laura Rosenberg]

My God, I'm trying to tell you. You're like, what? What?

[Ebro Darden]

All right, here we go.

[Laura Rosenberg]

All right. Go. Just go.

[Ebro Darden]

So. And participating in events and spaces that have been some of the most exhilarating and eye opening experience of my life. One of the most meaningful outcomes from this journey has been developing a friendship with another participant outside of the space. While we share common experiences within the lifestyle. Yo, I'm confused. We have also built a friendship rooted in personal respect and value. Beyond it.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I think it sounds like swingers.

[Jamal Bowman]

Why is this person writing to this show?

[Ebro Darden]

Let's get him. Hold on, hold on, Jamal.

[Laura Rosenberg]

We don't judge.

[Ebro Darden]

We don't judge as gurus, Jamal.

[Laura Rosenberg]

We listen and we don't judge.

[Ebro Darden]

We don't judge.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Well, actually, we're lying, but.

[Ebro Darden]

All right. Recently, however, I entered a dilemma that has left me. Reflecting deeply, my friend shared with me that one of the mentors within this community had been speaking negatively about another mentor's business environment privately. While continuing. I don't understand, bro. While continuing to publicly support and encourage that same business owner. Given the close knit nature of this black and brown community and recognizing how few safe and supportive spaces like this exist for us, I felt a responsibility to protect the integrity of the environment by informing the business owner that is impacted of the situation. You sound like a snitch. I don't understand anything you say, but I do understand that.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Okay, keep going.

[Ebro Darden]

Before doing so, I asked my friend whether she was comfortable with me addressing it, and at the time, she agreed. Unfortunately, the following day, she no longer supported my decision and expressed that she felt my actions were messy or unnecessary, noting that she had been under the influence and did not fully recall the conversation. Since then, there has been noticeable distance between us. I'm realizing that we may approach conflict very differently. I tend to believe in addressing issues directly and standing firm in uncomfortable situations. Standing firm. All right. Especially when I feel accountability and protection of community are involved. In contrast, my friend appears more inclined to avoid conflict and remain silent in situations that may create tension. You're being judgmental and saying your way is better than their way in the

[Jamal Bowman]

way that you describe that.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Get to the point.

[Ebro Darden]

At this point, I am struggling to determine whether this difference in values and communication styles is something that can coexist within a healthy friendship, or whether it reveals a deeper, incompatible incompatibility in how we navigate loyalty, accountability, and adversity. Gurus. It's only been seven months. Does this mean that we are incompatible as friends? Should we quit while we're ahead? Thank you for your advice. I think I speak for all three of us when I say none of us know what the hell you're talking about, bro.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I'm so confused. What is the lifestyle? Like? What is it?

[Ebro Darden]

So, hey, we need someone to explain exactly what he means by the lifestyle,

[Jamal Bowman]

because that a he or she?

[Laura Rosenberg]

We don't know.

[Ebro Darden]

I don't know. Oh, it's a she.

[Laura Rosenberg]

She. Okay, okay. What is the.

[Ebro Darden]

What the hell is the lifestyle?

[Jamal Bowman]

Lady has to be swingers or.

[Ebro Darden]

But like. But there are mentors in the.

[Laura Rosenberg]

That's what I.

[Jamal Bowman]

That's what took me.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Mentors. Because in the chat people are saying swingers. But I don't know.

[Ebro Darden]

I'm just. I didn't know there were mentors.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I mean, listen, you're a snitch. She's Not. She's not messing with you now. That's really what it is.

[Ebro Darden]

Now.

[Laura Rosenberg]

We are still confused about the lifestyle.

[Jamal Bowman]

That's pretty much what it is.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Wait, wait, wait, Louie. So what is the lifestyle according to Gemini? Okay.

[Ebro Darden]

It most often refers to ethnically non monom, monogamous, or swinger communities. So it's black and brown swingers. Damn. We have to be segregated even in swinging.

[Laura Rosenberg]

That.

[Jamal Bowman]

You know, that's.

[Ebro Darden]

You know, this is.

[Jamal Bowman]

It's or it's. Or.

[Ebro Darden]

Say it again. It's. Or. What do you mean? So non monogamous. Yeah, ethically non. Non monogamous or swinger communities. So it could be one of those two things.

[Jamal Bowman]

But they're still. Yeah, ethnic.

[Ebro Darden]

But ethnic was a. Was a part of why. Yeah, that.

[Jamal Bowman]

That's what it was.

[Ebro Darden]

This is why we can't grow as a country when we can't even all just do. When the freakazoids can't even come together. We gotta have separate communities. That's crazy.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I'm still tripping off the mentors in this community.

[Ebro Darden]

They got mentors.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

I wonder if anyone in the lifestyle is in, like, can. Can talk to us about this.

[Jamal Bowman]

So wait a minute.

[Ebro Darden]

You.

[Jamal Bowman]

You were just on. You were just on Ryan Clark's.

[Ebro Darden]

It was a little while ago, but my boy Olu's been posting some of the clips from it.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, right. So the. The light skinned brother on that show he speaks about. He's spoken about this before.

[Ebro Darden]

He spoke about the lifestyle?

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, he. I don't know if he referred to it as that, but he's spoken about it before. Him and his wife have gone to like. Oh, his girl. I don't know if it's right. Let me not. Let me roll that back. Him and his partner. His partner.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Right, right.

[Jamal Bowman]

They've been in places where everybody's naked and blah, blah. It was a. It was a viral clip where Kevin Hart was there. He was talking to Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart was like. Hold on.

[Ebro Darden]

You talking about Shannon Crowder? Yeah. Shannon Crowder is the one who's known for the. I didn't know that.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yeah, he spoke about this before.

[Ebro Darden]

Listen, I got news for you. There's only. Here's all I have to say about swingers. The swingers are those of us who are just brave and crazy enough to not be bored sexually anymore. They're the people who are just like, we're going for it. We're prioritizing this over everything. Most people go, yeah, you're with the same person forever. There's a lot of upside. And there's some things that are not as exciting as when you were single, but I'm not willing to. To do all of the other things for that. And then there are other people like, nah, it's really good. It's worth it.

[Laura Rosenberg]

And then there's people who are like, yeah, let's go, let's do it. Convince their partner. And then when they see their partner getting banged out and enjoying it, they're like, what? I'm out of here. Marriage is over.

[Ebro Darden]

By the way.

[Laura Rosenberg]

I've seen those stories so many times.

[Ebro Darden]

She's dropping facts, folks. And it does happen. Like, they were like, this is a great idea. And then they try to do it and things happen and there's no going back. And then one person's like, I don't really want to do this anymore. And we got, we got a message about that.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

We got an email recently in the Gurus from someone. They tried and then the woman liked it too much and the guy was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Now, of course, because it has to be even weirder in this case, Jamal. It sounded like this was also based in race and the guy was freaked out because she had particularly enjoyed darker skinned black men. And again, I'm like, wait, why is the race you already. So wait, anyways, so people are out here, try taking their shot. Yeah, to me it sounds crazy. So the rest of your email, which we don't even care about. No, wait. The short of this crazy, rambling lifestyle email was basically some drama went down with your friend of seven months. You thought it was the right thing to do to just go right to

[Jamal Bowman]

the person and tell them immediately what to tell.

[Ebro Darden]

And your friend was like, I don't think we should do that. And now you're saying, can I even be friends with this person if they're not of the moral fiber you're judging? No, I think you sound like a snitch. I think it sounds like maybe something you should have just been like, yo, that's between. My name is Paul. And that's between y'. All.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yep, yep.

[Ebro Darden]

So no, to answer your question. Seriously, I don't know if you guys agree. I do think that this person's being very judgmental about the way that their friend would have handled it. Like, calm down.

[Laura Rosenberg]

And she probably feels guilty because the friend told her the next day, I was drunk. I didn't really mean it. Like, too late. I already snitched.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah. Or I didn't want to do that. It's not our place, you know?

[Laura Rosenberg]

Right, right, right, right.

[Ebro Darden]

So we. I think we all think it's weird to end a friendship just because y' all see that differently. If anything, they'd be more in the position to end the friendship.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamal Bowman]

There's interesting people out there, man. Life is interesting.

[Ebro Darden]

So say the gurus. No, we sound judgmental now. The lifestyle.

[Jamal Bowman]

That was funny.

[Ebro Darden]

So you're saying in the. In the book Unpolished, coming in November, Jamal Bowman's new book, there's not going to be any stories of the lifestyle.

[Jamal Bowman]

No lifestyle revelations.

[Ebro Darden]

Yo, what a bore this Jamal Bowman is. He's just out here working with kids in the community, trying to do the regular thing.

[Jamal Bowman]

Mad regular in comparison to the lifestyle.

[Ebro Darden]

Tomorrow we have a big fought Friday. Send your emails to Ebro. Laura rosenbergmail. Jamal, where could people find you if they enjoyed your stylings today?

[Jamal Bowman]

I appreciate that. Instagram is the best place to find me at Jamal Bowman ny.

[Ebro Darden]

Jamal Bowman ny. Check him out. Great. Follow lots of information, Laura. Let's do it again tomorrow for five.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Thanks for hanging out with us today.

[Jamal Bowman]

Appreciate you.

[Ebro Darden]

Enjoy the Knicks game tonight.

[Jamal Bowman]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

Go, Nicks.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Wait, wait, wait. King Lou.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, before we leave, we should give a big shout out to one of our biggest fs. Thank you, Lou. Who is that? Spanx. Spanx?

[Laura Rosenberg]

Spanx is dynamic.

[Ebro Darden]

Yes.

[Jamal Bowman]

One of our biggest fs.

[Ebro Darden]

She's been following us for years. A big birthday.

[Laura Rosenberg]

She's so sweet. Yes. She turns 37.

[Ebro Darden]

Yo, happy birthday, Spanx. We love you and appreciate you. Thank you so much.

[Laura Rosenberg]

Yes. Happy birthday.

[Ebro Darden]

All right, we'll see everyone tomorrow. Jamal. Thank you, man.

[Jamal Bowman]

Peace.

[Laura Rosenberg]

It.

[Jamal Bowman]

Don't call it a podcast.