142.) Joy Reid Talks Democratic Socialism + Rosenberg Insecurities (7/16/26)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ebro, Laura, Rosenberg Show — Ep. 142: “Joy Reid Talks Democratic Socialism + Rosenberg Insecurities” (7/16/26)

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Overview

This episode brings MSNBC’s Joy Reid to the show for a deep dive into Democratic politics, media criticism, the rise of democratic socialism, and the scrutiny facing both power and protest in contemporary America. The regular crew—Ebro Darden, Laura Stylez, and Peter Rosenberg—set the stage with a wide-ranging conversation about hip-hop’s legacy, generational divides, and personal insecurities before welcoming Joy Reid for a candid and insightful discussion.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Interpersonal Friction and Insecurities in the Industry (01:28–12:20)

• Revisiting the Pete Rock Conflict:
  The team discusses a lingering disagreement with Pete Rock and how personal history, cultural backgrounds, and mixed signals often complicate industry relationships.

  • “Some people just don’t like you because you’re white, or Jewish, or whatever.” (Ebro Darden, 07:04)
  • “If I don’t like somebody, I don’t want to do anything.” (Peter Rosenberg, 07:23)

• Identity, Confidence, and Perception:
  Ebro, as a biracial personality, reflects on how both white and Black spaces have challenged his authenticity.

  • “I grew up with that. So… I’m accustomed to people just not liking me because they don’t like the cut of your jib.” (Ebro Darden, 04:01)

• Money, Success, and Cultural Capital:
  Laura and Rosenberg open up about their family backgrounds, the assumptions made about them, and their pride in having earned their place.

  • “I’m proud of what I put together. Trust me, I have it to invest. I worked my ass…” (Peter Rosenberg, 11:57)

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2. Hip-Hop Classics vs. Mainstream Success (12:20–21:40)

• What Makes a Classic?: The panel debates which hip-hop records from the ‘90s actually crossed over to the pop charts, and the difference between commercial hits and the music that shaped the culture.

  • “[Jay-Z’s] Reasonable Doubt… didn’t go platinum for five years…” (Ebro Darden, 13:29)
  • “Some of the greatest things in hip hop were not the biggest selling, most chart topping things.” (Ebro Darden, 14:46)

• Generational Change in Fan Culture:
  They discuss how today’s discourse around hip-hop is distorted by metrics like streaming and charts rather than lived cultural impact.

  • “Now so much of the discourse around what is deemed even credible in hip hop is tied to charts.” (Ebro Darden, 18:03)

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3. Celebration, Fandom, and Vulnerability (21:40–39:20)

• Fan Culture and Criticism:
  Jay-Z’s recent concert becomes a lens for discussing middle-aged Black male joy, the challenge of publicly celebrating an artist (“glazing”), and how internet trolling can make genuine excitement seem suspect.

  • “Do not be too cool to be a fan.” (Ebro Darden, 29:40)

• Difference Between Real Impact and Internet Clout:
  The real meaning of legacy, community, and cultural ownership versus fleeting online narratives.

  • “To have people like us… [just celebrating] an era of a time as a 40+ year old Black man… name another.” (Ebro Darden, 30:56)

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4. Joy Reid Joins: The Media, Corporate Cowardice, and Democratic Dilemmas (40:41–77:59)

Corporate Media’s Relationship with Power (40:54–49:07)

• Protection vs. Compliance:
  Joy Reid explains the misconception that a corporate media environment offers security. While at MSNBC, she was told not to respond to attacks from Trump.

  • “What the corporation wants is for you to not be attacked by people in power—and for you to not respond.” (Joy Reid, 41:36)
  • “Now I can respond. There’s a freedom actually to defend myself that did not exist when I was there.” (Joy Reid, 42:01)

• Mainstream Media’s Timidity with Trump:
  Reid critiques leading networks for capitulating to Trump’s intimidation—even allowing call-ins rather than demanding in-person interviews.

  • “Jake Tapper on Jake’s show… made him look like a scrub, treated him like a child, slapped him around on his own show… I’m like, what are we doing?” (Joy Reid, 46:56)

Democratic Powerlessness and the Problem with Leadership (52:19–57:26)

• Limits of Institutional Power:
  Democrats in Congress are largely powerless without majorities or control of the White House/Supreme Court.

  • “Can they actually stop the war? No. Legislatively? No. Can they shut off the money? No.” (Joy Reid, 52:50)

• Messaging and Progressivism:
  Joy points to a generational and ideological split, with the party establishment suspicious or dismissive of its growing progressive wing.

  • “The people who are fighting the hardest… are the progressives that the leadership can’t stand.” (Joy Reid, 54:12)
  • “The fear of losing a primary… is enough to make politicians heal.” (Joy Reid, 55:47)

Democratic Socialism & the Blocked Path to Real Change (57:26–64:13)

• Why the Establishment Fears Progressives:
  Reid argues the Democratic establishment resists progressive policy because actual change would mean defunding lobbyists’ priorities (military aid, healthcare conglomerates).

  • “The reason we can’t have nice things… is [because] to do that, they’d have to take money away from Israel [and] big hospital giants.” (Joy Reid, 61:46)
  • “Democrats are beholden to too many rich lobbies…” (Joy Reid, 62:57)

• Transactional Politics, Not Team Sports:
  Younger voters in particular see voting less as loyalty and more as a transaction. What’s being offered for my support?

  • “I’m only going to vote for you because you’re going to change my life, not because you have the blue jersey on.” (Joy Reid, 56:24)

• Notable Line:

  • “You can’t replace something with nothing. And what Democrats are doing at the national level is they’re just saying the word ‘affordability’ a lot…” (Joy Reid, 60:14)

Israel, Lobby Influence, and Structural Change (64:13–66:54)

• Lobby Influence:
  Discussion shifts to AIPAC and why major changes (like universal healthcare, infrastructure overhauls) are blocked by both parties’ financial dependence.
  • “AIPAC tries to win either way, they fund the Democrat and… the Republican… Israel gets your money anyway.” (Joy Reid, 63:37)
  • “We’d rather spend that money on us than bombing those poor kids.” (Joy Reid, 64:01)

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5. Political Morality, Death, and Eulogizing Villains (67:08–77:35)

• Mitch McConnell “Proof of Life” — Political Theater:
  Joy Reid theorizes on McConnell’s suspiciously orchestrated public appearances (“proof of life” to prevent a Democratic appointment after McConnell’s rumored incapacitation or death).

  • “This is about trying to deny Andy Beshear the opportunity to legally replace [McConnell] in the immediate future.” (Joy Reid, 69:23)

• Eulogies and Decorum:
  The show contrasts how Democrats and Republicans honor deceased politicians. Joy criticizes Democrats for holding up tradition and showing excessive decorum even in the face of harmful legacies.

  • “When [Lindsey Graham] dies, I think we have to be honest about that and don’t do fake encomiums…” (Joy Reid, 74:32)

• On Lindsey Graham:
  “The things you most remember about him, he called Donald Trump a kook, a racist, and then he turned around and said, ‘I love him.’ All I remember is him being a traitor to his own principles.” (Joy Reid, 76:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Democrats aren’t morally evil, but they’re not strong and they don’t lead.” (Joy Reid, 63:37)
• “To have people like us… as Black men, there’s not a lot of things we get to go to where, like, yo, this is a celebration of an era of a time.” (Ebro Darden, 30:56)
• “If we nominate Donald Trump, we will be destroyed and we will deserve it.” (Joy Reid on Lindsey Graham’s infamous 2016 tweet, 76:37)
• “They just need to lose a bunch more primaries to progressives, and then they’ll comply.” (Joy Reid, 57:26)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:28–12:20 — Pete Rock, insecurities, and the complexities of industry relationships
• 12:20–21:40 — Hip-hop classics, the culture vs. the charts
• 21:40–39:20 — Fandom, Jay-Z’s legacy, and refusing to be “too cool” to be a fan
• 40:41–49:07 — Joy Reid on media cowardice, corporate risk aversion, and Trump’s bullying
• 52:19–57:26 — Democratic leadership vs. the progressive wing
• 57:26–64:13 — The hurdles of democratic socialism and policy
• 67:08–77:35 — Political death, eulogies, and keeping it real about harmful legacies

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Tone & Style

Conversational, sharp, unfiltered, with a blend of earnest political analysis, personal storytelling, humor, and industry insider observations. The episode balances music and pop culture commentary with deep dives into contemporary political strategy and media critique—staying true to the hosts’ reputation for honesty and directness.

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For anyone who wants the spirit and insights from this episode, this summary captures it—no need for the ads, only the content and the fire.

Transcript

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Joy Reid]

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[Laura Stylez]

I'm Gwen Washington from Snap Judgment, the storytelling podcast from kqed. Imagine an iconic piece of paradise overrun by one of the most horrific fires in recent memory. Everyone flees. Everyone except one person who decides to fight the flames alone. The moment when nature, institutions, and technology fail at the exact same time. That's all. Systems down. A new Snap Judgment miniseries from kqed. Tap to listen now.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Laura Stylez]

The Ebro Laura Rosenberg show.

[Ebro Darden]

Hey, Thursday back.

[Joy Reid]

Er.

[Ebro Darden]

Rosenberg was popping. Okay. Did you guys feel like yesterday

[Joy Reid]

the

[Ebro Darden]

P Rock conversation stuck with me yesterday.

[Laura Stylez]

Really?

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

Why?

[Ebro Darden]

I don't know.

[Laura Stylez]

Feel bad.

[Ebro Darden]

It's not a feel. Is it a. Yeah, just listen, man. I don't really be wanting problems. I don't want problems.

[Laura Stylez]

No, me neither.

[Ebro Darden]

I mean, if.

[Laura Stylez]

If there is a problem, you'll solve it. No, Check out the hook while your DJ revolves it.

[Ebro Darden]

No, no, no, no, no. I'll lean in and I'm fine. But ultimately, I don't want beef and problems and static. That's not my thing.

[Laura Stylez]

Well, it's.

[Ebro Darden]

It's a. I'm just not gonna back down from it, I guess.

[Laura Stylez]

Well, so. So. So it's. It's a blurry line. It's not unlike the. The B word conversation of the other day.

[Ebro Darden]

I don't like bitches and hoes.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah. The name of that episode, which should be that I didn't like myself for coming out of pocket and saying something to a friend. That's an unkind word. But at the same time, you were being a D in that moment. And at a certain point, I went, all right, let's. All right, we're doing it. Let's do it. Right. I don't feel different about the Pete thing in the sense that. Listen, of course, my thing is I'm being good. I've always been good to you and I will continue to play records and I want to be good to you. But, like, I do not understand why you are repeatedly, anytime you get a chance to, as you see it, sort of dance on our grave. Even though that is not what happened, that's how you see it. The fact that you're choosing to do that, and you would do that after how kind I've been to you, while I still don't wish ill on you. Now we're gonna. Okay, we're playing soul games. Let's play games.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, you know, also too, there is a thing where, like, people just don't like people like people. There's people who just don't like me. They don't like my posture, they don't like how I look, they don't like how I enunciate words. They don't like my story, they don't like my confidence. They don't like me.

[Laura Stylez]

I think also you being black and confident about your views, it strikes a chord in certain whites that they don't love.

[Ebro Darden]

But there's that. But there's also on the other side. And I've always dealt with this, being a mixed kid with a white mom and having confidence. People don't like that either. In black spaces, right? Where they want to intimidate you just because you're light skinned and they think, oh, you light skin, you must be soft. Right? And so I grew up with that. So that's also like a chip I have where it's like, oh, you trying to play me like something I've dealt with my entire life. So I'm accustomed to people like, just not liking me because not liking the

[Laura Stylez]

cut of your jib.

[Ebro Darden]

They don't like it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I get it.

[Ebro Darden]

And so that might be maybe P Rock just don't like us.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But my whole thing, if he never liked us, like, why would you act like you do when you see each other in person? You know? Do you see what I'm saying? Like, why play the part? Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

So there's multiple. Okay, so there's a couple ways to look at this. You remember there was that clip a while ago of Vlad talking about me and he was the reason he was saying I was a bitch or whatever I was, is because I said things about him. Then when I saw him in person 20 years, 15 years ago, he brought it up to me and I was like, yeah, you know what, man? That's my bad. I shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry. And he thought that was me being soft. To me, that is me seeing a person, them reminding me of what I did, that offended them and made me like, hey, you know what? In retrospect, I don't think that's cool that I said that. I'm sorry. Then there's. You see someone, you're friendly to them, it's all good. Then you walk away and you're like, ha, ha ha. I hope they lose their job. That is a vastly different and weird way to be. And I know you have some relationship with Pete. I have like a years long. Like, I sort of idolized him. So when I got to New York, at that time, he was putting out an indie project. I don't know if you remember, he had a Jim Jones record called we roll. He had 914. Remember 914 with the locks. Hard, hard record. And I was playing him on my show all the time, interviewing him, supporting anything that he did. My first, before there was ever Peter Palooza, I did a boat party.

[Ebro Darden]

Did you come?

[Laura Stylez]

It's preemie being close with you, but did you. I don't remember if you came on the boat. It's like 0809.

[Ebro Darden]

I was a big Rosenberg supporter, so I may have came.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah, you were so. But I just don't remember you. But you're not in the pictures, so maybe you didn't come. Boats are annoying. You're stuck on the.

[Ebro Darden]

You know what? I may not have come.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Laura Stylez]

Because boats are.

[Ebro Darden]

I don't like a boat.

[Laura Stylez]

But at the time, Ballard had a connection with this guy Jake, who owned this company called Rocks Off. And they did the boats around the Hudson where they played music. Great time.

[Ebro Darden]

Pause.

[Laura Stylez]

Ayo rox off Chill Ayo get your rocks off. I guess I had access to the boat at a good deal through a party. Pete Rock and DJ Premier DJ'd the Party SP. The Ghost came through and rapped homeboy Sandman. All my people came through. Great time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Sounds fire.

[Laura Stylez]

It was fire. But Pete DJed it. Prior to that, Pete and I did a Cornerstone mixtape together called. Yeah. Called Recipes. Rob Stone. There you go. Called the Pete's Rock. And it was brand. I was brand new here. You know what it said for Pete Rock? It said, Pete Rock, Soul Survivor Records. And it said, Peter Rosenberg, Hot 97.97.1 FM. Like I was brand new. We had mad shit. So, so many interviews. Different things to all of a sudden because.

[Ebro Darden]

And that's why I went to Weird. No, but that's why I went to. Maybe he don't like you. Like, maybe he just.

[Laura Stylez]

But when I was a fan and a support, how much would you have to not like me?

[Ebro Darden]

No, but that's why. Let me finish. He doesn't like you because you're white or he doesn't like you because you're. You haven't just experienced people who just don't like you because you're white or don't like you because you're Jewish or don't like because you're Jewish and white.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But why would he do all these things with him if he didn't like him?

[Ebro Darden]

It's just business, I guess.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I just don't. That's the part that I don't comprehend.

[Joy Reid]

I.

[Peter Rosenberg]

If I don't like somebody, I don't want to do anything.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah, I'm not doing anything. That's the. That's.

[Ebro Darden]

But that's us, though. But that's us, though. That's us.

[Laura Stylez]

I. I lean towards the weirdo.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Have you ever texted him to say, hey, what's up? Like, why are you doing that?

[Laura Stylez]

The time I did that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

He said it wasn't him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, that's when you were. Okay, Okay. I remember you.

[Laura Stylez]

When I'm like, yo, what's going on? He was like, what?

[Ebro Darden]

Who are you?

[Laura Stylez]

Went off on me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Wrong number.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah. He wrong numbered me. I wish him nothing but the best, one of the greatest of all time.

[Ebro Darden]

But that's why this combo. It stuck with me. That's why I started by. That stuck with me from yesterday, talking about it. Right. Because. And also this week that stuck with me is just how many people hadn't known our crash outs blackouts. But people aren't that close to it and they forget things. So that's fine.

[Laura Stylez]

Hey, listen, Natalie had mixed feelings about it. She's sort of new to seeing us go to that.

[Ebro Darden]

So Jazz because. And. But Jazz admitted that she was like. But maybe it was because it was on camera and it was live. Like, if we would have heard it through the radio and there was no visual, maybe it wouldn't have.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah. Because they probably both have heard morning shows where it was like, ooh, this feels a little tense.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

But now you're watching the whole thing. But I. But the thing that I find a little odd about it, and this is maybe me to blame. I. Natalie wasn't watching live. I hit her up and I'm like, oh, by the way, me and Ebro got into it today.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, man.

[Laura Stylez]

So she goes into it like a. She said. She almost texted both of us and said, I'm disappointed with you. I was like, why did she. I was like, sure.

[Ebro Darden]

But that also shows that you took it as a real. Got into it.

[Laura Stylez]

But I didn't. I didn't. I just wanted to warn her.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, for the visual.

[Laura Stylez]

You might.

[Ebro Darden]

When you got into. On the show.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah, yeah. No, you and I had already. By the time I told her, we'd

[Peter Rosenberg]

already moved on and it was gonna hit her algo.

[Laura Stylez]

And it was gonna hit her algo. But then like I said, by the end of the day, she kind of. Listen. We're only. Nat and I are only six years in relative to my whole thing. That's still pretty new. And we're in a new era where all of it feels different. Funny thing is, my dad. My dad texted me MJ yesterday and wrote your quote, fight with Ebro was so funny. And your Netflix thing, hilarious.

[Ebro Darden]

So he got it.

[Laura Stylez]

But maybe he thought it was fully

[Ebro Darden]

at work or maybe he just thought it was funny because it was about something ridiculous like investing.

[Laura Stylez]

And my dad crashes out.

[Ebro Darden]

Right.

[Laura Stylez]

My dad's a known crash out, so.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, and it's interesting too. Your dad would not be offended about not having money to invest? No, he wouldn't give a shit.

[Laura Stylez]

Nope, he doesn't. Again, that's where I get it from. My dad doesn't respect money like that.

[Ebro Darden]

He doesn't care. So to him, us arguing about having money to invest is hilarious.

[Laura Stylez]

It doesn't even. It's not Larry Register. My dad. My dad is. My dad is one of the only people I know who's judgmental. The other direction on money, like, well,

[Ebro Darden]

let me ask you this stupid. Let me ask you this. Were you sensitive about the money to invest because you've worked hard to have money to invest?

[Laura Stylez]

Yes, and I'm proud of what I've done because. And I think maybe that taps into it too. Is that like. And I mentioned this yesterday, people make assumptions about me because of who I am. Okay. I think I'm getting somewhere. I feel away probably about, you know, oh, man. So and so's down with so and so. They're doing all those things. Why don't they call me? I probably feel a little bit of a way about that.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right.

[Laura Stylez]

But on the flip side of that, I'm proud of the fact that when people meet me, they assume I have things. I've never gotten anything right. Now, the irony of me fighting with you, who's part of the reason I was able to be in a position to make the money, is ironic. But that was A long time ago. And now we're too close. So if you act like a bitch, I gotta call it out. But you know it. You know my story, right? I wasn't given, like, everyone's made up assumptions to Jason Lee's are false. Yes. I came from a safe east, Nice neighborhood. Nice neighborhood. If my DJ career had failed, my parents definitely would have taken me back in the house. I'm like, oh God, this guy's living in our basement. I didn't have to worry. But I also was never given anything. Didn't know anyone. Remember when people were like, yo, you don't know Rosenberg's dad owns Hot 97? I mean, that was a thing I had to deal with. I'm like, my parents never heard of Hot 97 except for me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That is crazy.

[Laura Stylez]

So I think it is the fact that I earned it and I'm proud of what I put together. That, yeah, maybe I was like, bro, I work. Trust me, I have it to invest. I know, because I worked my ass.

[Ebro Darden]

But you don't have money to invest.

[Laura Stylez]

But I don't have money. But I. But now that you mention it, I

[Ebro Darden]

don't have money to invest.

[Laura Stylez]

Maybe you come with the right thing. I will.

[Ebro Darden]

I might have money to invest in that.

[Laura Stylez]

Oh, I might. Yeah. Hey, listen, let me know.

[Ebro Darden]

This week was also something too. I. You know. I know. And I'm happy you guys. You know Danny from the stop and everybody, that clips of our show, for Better, For Worse, and they framed it around it being us arguing about Roc Nation, which, you know, in my opinion, wasn't that. But if that's how you guys received it, whatever. On that note, though, this week I saw 9th Wonder twice.

[Laura Stylez]

Oh, really?

[Ebro Darden]

At Yankee Stadium on. Maybe it was Saturday and Sunday. I saw. Maybe it was Friday. Saturday, I don't remember. But he had posted this and I thought it was a great conversation that we should have.

[Joy Reid]

And.

[Ebro Darden]

And we'll just leave it up here for a second.

[Laura Stylez]

Oh, yeah, I love to read it.

[Ebro Darden]

Someone needs to compile a list of the rap songs that made the Billboard Hot 100 Top 40 from 1990 to 1996. I want to see exactly how many songs we were actually playing amongst our friends, dorm rooms, etc, and how many we deemed to be classic. Rarely did we play a song that was top 40 on the billboard. We didn't even have to know where it was. We just knew how the song sounded and if it was too mainstream. Here are the songs I actually listened to Owned, either on tape or CD, then finished in the top 40 on the Billboard charts from 1996. So 10 songs in a six year span. So.

[Laura Stylez]

So okay.

[Ebro Darden]

Mind you, I had no clue where these songs ranked on the Billboard Hot 100 charts until today. Now the reason this struck a chord with me was because going into Reasonable Doubt on Friday I was so I started to get really excited because we were celebrating something at Yankee Stadium with the biggest, most successful, greatest skilled rapper to ever do it. Of an album that only sold 43,000 copies in the first week and didn't go platinum for five years until Blueprint came out.

[Laura Stylez]

Right.

[Ebro Darden]

And I was like, this is an important thing now. How things get measured and what is deemed important shifts and changes over time. That's fine. But I think for hip hop, this thing that we've always loved so much and has afforded us this opportunity, I think it's important for us to point out that some of the greatest things in hip hop were not the biggest selling, most chart topping things. I think that's an important conversation to not lose.

[Laura Stylez]

But that goes back to also the thing you were saying about people not understanding how the game works, right. That whole made up conversation of like y' all were in the mornings and you weren't playing. That was never what morning radio was doing. It's never what commercial radio was doing. The records, if I think I.

[Ebro Darden]

When Hot 97 started and was saying where hip hop lives, they weren't even playing hip hop all day. They were still playing R B. And the point is making though is

[Laura Stylez]

that during that time there were only that many songs that were actually that big.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right.

[Laura Stylez]

Got it. Like we owned all these CDs and

[Ebro Darden]

but, and right now when you're talking about Illmatic and you're talking about Reasonable Doubt, none of that is up there.

[Laura Stylez]

No, only Biggie One More Chance was there.

[Ebro Darden]

Go back to it. Rahsaan. Let's see.

[Laura Stylez]

And that was mad Commercial Summertime, Summertime was big Tennessee.

[Ebro Darden]

Tennessee was Jump Around, Big jump, Crisscross, Slam Onyx, Nothing but a G thing, Regulate, One More Chance, Lounging and hey

[Laura Stylez]

Lover and they did finish. And those are the only ones that actually finished in the top 40. That's, that's fascinating. And of those songs that you see real quick. Go back one more time. Sorry. And of those songs that you see for people like us, while we owned it, we weren't checking for jump like that. It was just, it was a good rapper.

[Ebro Darden]

It was popular.

[Laura Stylez]

I was 13 at the time, so it was cute. They were 13, I was 13. Ebro, you were 7. You were not being like, yo, yo, beat that. Crisscross. Didn't happen. All right, go back in, jump around. We all love the Pete Rock remix. And the record itself was hard. Like the beat was hard. But like, at a certain point, you're not listening to it every day. Tennessee. I love the rest of development. I had love for them, but like no one. Yo, by the way, there's a showbiz remix. Tennessee. But the regular version, no one's playing that on their own time like that. Now. Summertime to me is one of the best of the bunch. Like, that was a great.

[Ebro Darden]

Nothing but a G thing I'd put up there.

[Laura Stylez]

And G thing too. That was. Everyone loved that.

[Ebro Darden]

And also One more Chance. Stop it. One more time.

[Laura Stylez]

I didn't get there yet.

[Ebro Darden]

Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

But nothing but a G thing for sure. We played that slam, big commercial joint Regulate. We all had a mixed feeling about. It was goofy, but we liked it. Of course, the samples, incredible samples. No, but by the way, I love this DJ too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Me too.

[Laura Stylez]

It's also kind of goofy, but I loved it. And then One More chance. Stay with me. Mix, obviously is huge and fantastic and well done lounging and hey Lover. I mean, you know, they are what they are.

[Ebro Darden]

They're good records.

[Laura Stylez]

They're good records. I like. I like hey Lover, obviously, but they don't go analyze some of the troubling parts of that song and ll doing some of the most all time classic hating on another man we've ever seen.

[Ebro Darden]

But they don't go down in the conversation. Most of those don't go down in the conversation of quote unquote hip hop classics. And they're not debated on in the same ways we're going to debate like, you know, like once again, you know, Illmatic or reasonable doubt or 36 chambers or. I mean, hell, I could probably. I just started earlier, but we could keep going and outcast records and on and on and on.

[Laura Stylez]

Yo, Diggle Planets isn't even in there, right? Reminisce isn't in there. These records that we consider really big are not never made it to top 40.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

And now so much of the discourse around what is deemed even credible in hip hop is tied to charts.

[Laura Stylez]

Correct. You have to be like, that's like a part of the conversation in a way that it doesn't even jive with back then.

[Ebro Darden]

And I challenge anybody from a young, younger generation right now who will who? I mean, we know Drake's gonna do it and we know Kendrick will have it and we know Cole will likely have it.

[Laura Stylez]

What,

[Ebro Darden]

30 year celebrations of albums that will sell out stadiums.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah, but, but, but, but also, none of them are gonna be like this. I mean, I know they're gonna mean a lot and be cool for their fans and. But here's what I was thinking about with Jay. God, I can't believe the D sucking is continuing all the way to the end of the week.

[Ebro Darden]

But I can't help but I want to point out that. But why even, Even the Internet has convinced you. Yeah, right. That the entity, the artist, Jay Z, as great as he is, that you should somehow hesitate to acknowledge what was able to be accomplished.

[Laura Stylez]

No, it's an immature part of the way we are in hip hop. It is like we. If we stay too much time on one person. But, but let's be honest, respectfully, Jay himself will do the same thing if you're doing it about another artist ever. They will all do it like, yo, my man, you really still going off about so and so? So let's not act like it's not part of it. We all do this. No, no, no.

[Ebro Darden]

I'm not saying it's you.

[Laura Stylez]

I'm not saying it's all of us

[Ebro Darden]

that we all say. But why do we.

[Laura Stylez]

It's dumb. It's dumb. You're right. He's. What? He's. He's. He's our Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan. Like, why would we not put him up here like we should?

[Ebro Darden]

Well, and by the way, it's about the work. It's not personal.

[Laura Stylez]

No, I know.

[Ebro Darden]

It's about what you've given us and the work that you put in to the music. That's what we're celebrating, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, but, you know, we're living in a time where the Internet has an effect on people. Like, that's why I think you're also. You know, people say you're glazing, you're this, you're that.

[Laura Stylez]

And they are saying, look in the chat right now, I guarantee you, they say we're glazing.

[Ebro Darden]

But a lot of that is just. But a lot of that is just trolling, right? Like, a lot of you can't really not. Like, I don't pay attention to that. I'm looking at. This is in, man, that album. Even when. Even when dre, Snoop, Kendrick, M50 Mary did the super bowl, okay? The power of hip hop and those records to be on stage at a stadium built in the neighborhood where these artists come from, that nobody wanted to hear their story. Nobody wanted them to have A voice. And now they're at the Super Bowl.

[Laura Stylez]

Incredible. Incredibly powerful.

[Ebro Darden]

That's. I guess that's where I'm. I'm at. I'm standing there in the Yankee Stadium, bro. And I think I said this earlier this week. I'm like, yo, bro doesn't have to do this. Like, think about that. It's not like he needs to tour to. Does he need to tour?

[Laura Stylez]

No, of course not. I mean, listen, people will tell you it's for the money because the tickets are expensive and all of that stuff.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

And he's making money, but obviously you're gonna make money. He's doing the thing. But to Ebro's point, at this point, they are so rich, they can sit around every day and watch their money, make more money than we all make in a year combined.

[Ebro Darden]

They make it in a day.

[Laura Stylez]

So, like, yeah, of course they make money. They also spent a ton of money on the show and on the promo, the subways, the events, the blah, blah. I just sit there and go, I thought about this about Drake, about Kendrick, about Cole. I love all of them. They all have things that are incredibly valuable. Jay's combination of the great things that each of them have. You know what I'm saying? Like, to me, Drake has an endless supply of hits. His hits surpass Jay's number of hits. Meaningful records, though, that, like, resonate on a deeper level. Not just like you complaining about girls or your own situation, but, like, no, you're really getting into some real stuff. He doesn't have records like Jay does. Kendrick has a lot of the records that mean a lot to a lot of people. Kendrick's an incredible rapper, all those things. He doesn't have Jay's level of charisma, so. And Jay has more charisma, frankly, on stage than both of them. Right. He has a different sort of swagger. Cole, same thing, does a lot of things well. But the combination of what Jay does mixed with the fact that he's of the true. I love that he's celebrating. When you celebrate Jay Z, in my opinion, you're celebrating Biggie and Artifact and Sadat X and Lord Jamar. All these. Yo, he was with them. I have a story from Juan Epp of Elva Sensei, from Artifacts, talking about being on a bus because they were on tour and Jay freestyling and Jay wanted to listen back to Come on with the get down remix over and over again. He was doing the little college tours with the other underground rappers all hustling.

[Ebro Darden]

You saw Joe and Jada this week, Jada Put out told a story about them recording their demo at D and D Studios and Jay being in the other room. And Jay was working on his, I think, Reasonable Doubt at the time, probably.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

And they were just, like, playing pool, and they were like, oh, that's the skinny kid. That's Jay Z. And he went. And that's how he ended up on a demo that ended up on the album.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, that's so funny.

[Ebro Darden]

You know what I'm saying?

[Laura Stylez]

Like, no, they were all of the same thing.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

It's interesting for Jay because he was older than some of them, had already been around.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, he doesn't start really moving around in music Till, what, 24. Yeah, 25.

[Laura Stylez]

And this album's when he's 27.

[Ebro Darden]

26. 27. Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

But I. And I didn't really know Jay. I know everyone talks about the jazz. Oh, I really didn't know Hawaiian Sophie when it came out. I didn't know. I knew Jay Z for the first time from Original Flavor.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

I don't remember him from the Big Daddy Kane feature. I don't remember him from Hawaiian Sophie. I knew about Hawaiian Sophie later. I don't know why. I just missed. I was watching rap videos at that time, but I missed Hawaiian Sophie. Did you really know it like that?

[Ebro Darden]

I saw it. I saw it. But I didn't. Wasn't.

[Laura Stylez]

It didn't register, like. And then it was Original Flavor and the fast raps that I was like, ooh, ooh, I like this guy. And then I heard In My Lifetime on WKYs in D.C. that was the

[Ebro Darden]

first vinyl I got.

[Laura Stylez]

It was In My lifetime.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

Now, did you get the. In My Lifetime promo with the bottle of Don P?

[Ebro Darden]

I didn't get the bottle. I don't remember.

[Laura Stylez]

You have the white. You have the white label.

[Ebro Darden]

I have the white label. Then I have the. And then I have the. The Orig Champagne bottle. In My Lifetime.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

So. So they did In. They probably didn't do it outside of New York. Maybe in Philly. We'd have to ask Jay. Ask Jay. You could ask him. But they did the Dom P. And I might even ask them on one app, probably. It's been too long. They did, like, I think 50 or 100 brought people the record with the bottle of Dom P. Because that was the logo, right. For the thing. Like. And they really were like, we're gonna make a big impact with this. In My Lifetime, of course, was not

[Ebro Darden]

a huge record, but people were excited about it.

[Laura Stylez]

But it did do Something.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah. It was silent.

[Laura Stylez]

Clark did the B side. Can't get with that. That's another good record. But he still sounds like jig a da dip, Jibba da dip, dibba da dip.

[Joy Reid]

A lot of it.

[Ebro Darden]

And that was the other thing going into Reasonable Doubt show this weekend and all these shows was how many times he's evolved as an artist. And that's why I go back to the work part. Like the actual effort of what we're seeing, what we saw this weekend and, and not. And remembering the effort of the whole thing. You know what I'm saying? I know we got. We had a convo with Joy Reid, so we're going to be bringing her in. But I just. That really stuck with me this week, like it really was.

[Laura Stylez]

And how about the 444 work?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I know.

[Laura Stylez]

Because that we were. Listen, Jay has had misses before every. Every artist. Paul Simon has had misses. The Beatles have had. Everyone's had misses. But when he came back with four four, four to go that personal, when there were that many eyeballs on them, when he had an opportunity to put up a shield, he let the shield down and let people in. And to me, that, that took him to another level. I think four four, four truly elevated him as an artist in my vulnerability once again.

[Ebro Darden]

Once again. Was that a number one? Was that a look for me? Was that a number one album? Was it to have top 10 hits on it? Back to not what 9th wonders thing. And I, I. The reason I'm staying on that is because we're living in a time right now where success for hip hop is stuck with charts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

And there's so much hip hop out here that is phenomenal and great. That is not necessarily charting. And I, and I just want us all to remember that. Right? It's not only. It's done. The radio and mainstream media is not the end all be all. Never was for hip hop. It never was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

You're pretending. Just look from that year. The score was big. We saw that score was really big. Did Killing Me Soldier get to number one?

[Ebro Darden]

I don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Eventually. I think it did.

[Laura Stylez]

I think it hit number one at aliens. Did not sniff a hit. Didn't sniff one.

[Ebro Darden]

And that's a classic. Super class.

[Laura Stylez]

Yo yo, the.

[Ebro Darden]

And that's also something I want to point out. This year. You, you know, we have Jay Z who's willing to spend his money and has infrastructure and a business that can actually go out and celebrate his shit. All right? And I, you know, I don't know Big boy and. And. And 3,000 situation. Who owns what and whatever. Where's the Atleans Celebration? Where's the Score Celebration?

[Laura Stylez]

Where's the Iron Man Celebration?

[Ebro Darden]

Where's the Iron Man Celebration? Those are. Those would also be 30 this year, right?

[Laura Stylez]

Yep. Hell on Earth as well.

[Ebro Darden]

Hell on Earth.

[Laura Stylez]

Right.

[Ebro Darden]

But that's because those record labels who own that content aren't investing in doing that. There's no business upside to them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And you never know. Also, the relationship within the artist, though, if they care to. You know what I mean? Like, you know. Yeah, listen, the Fugees, they've always been a little rocky.

[Laura Stylez]

They've tried.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Had the pleasure of watching a reunion. And I remember we talked about we may never see this again.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right. That's right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And we haven't.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, and. And I want to say that it's another important piece. Do the artists care? And it's going back to Jay Z. I think that. Bro. Like, as much as we could critique what. And you could critique whatever you like or dislike or all the things as a music fan and a hip hop fan, which is how and the why I am even sitting here right now.

[Joy Reid]

Yep.

[Ebro Darden]

I saw a dude that actually cared to put on something dope.

[Laura Stylez]

And you put in the work to make the show. Like a moment. You'd go, oh, my God, Yes. Like, that's why I was so impressed by. I just know that I'm a cynic about certain things that'll never reach where I was when I was. And. And I was. I gotta post some of the videos. I haven't posted any of the videos of me going crazy. Natalie filmed me a lot going just absolutely crazy.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

Like, to. To have people like us.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, because you don't want to get accused of glazing.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

You got to watch out for the guys.

[Ebro Darden]

And you got to stop running from the Internet, bro. You got. We have to stop.

[Laura Stylez]

No, you got to. No, no, I agree. You got to accept it. You got to just take it.

[Ebro Darden]

We have to stop and be like, yes. I love the work that Jay Z or whatever artists you're into. I am completely into this. Be a fan. Do not be too cool to be a fan.

[Joy Reid]

But that's.

[Ebro Darden]

That's what made the.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Those show. Those shows special, though. Because I said it before. You saw people go back to fandom.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, like, their true connection, the way you saw the audience on Reasonable Doubt Night was a completely different audience from Blueprint because it affected them in a completely different.

[Ebro Darden]

And you know what hit me on Friday. Laura, what really struck me so being in the in business, especially in the music and concert, I know how hard it is to get men to show up to a thing to buy a ticket if it doesn't have anything to do with their girl.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ebro Darden]

It has nothing to do with your children and your girl. To carve out time, buy a ticket and go to a place. Friday night when I walked around and I walked around the whole thing, I was outside. Dudes was with their friends from that time.

[Joy Reid]

Yes, yes.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was unfast.

[Laura Stylez]

Oh no. It was. It was uncanny. Auntie fest.

[Ebro Darden]

Listen and, and, and as. Listen. As black men, there's not a lot of things we get to go to where like yo, this is a celebration of an era of a time as a 40 plus year old black man to see another 40 plus 50 plus year old black man with his children and his wife on stage. Name another.

[Laura Stylez]

Can't. Which is why I'm sorry. I care about all the issues. I deeply do. And you have the right to have your problems with things. I can't spend the whole thing thinking about Jay Z's politics and his business. It's not. There's more to it than that. If you want to spend all your time on that, you have the right to. But I'm a rap fan first. More than anything, it defines me more

[Ebro Darden]

than why you're here.

[Laura Stylez]

It's why I'm here. So I'm not saying you don't have the right to discuss those things, but I'm sorry, I am here for the hip hop moment and it just frigging delivered. Tell me I didn't show you guys this picture. I could show you in one second why I love New York more than any place else in the world. Tell me how someone showed up to the Reasonable Doubt concert at Yankee Stadium wearing this, The Prodigy Queensbridge 95 jersey and how hip hop that is. You're still there to see hov.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right.

[Laura Stylez]

But don't ever forget it. No, I'm team Mobb Deep. All day long. Yo, I did think about that. That would have been a fun thing. I wonder if he considered for Takeover changing it and like doing tribute instead. Yeah, like bringing out havoc and playing Shook ones and doing like. I wonder if they played with that idea because, you know, I know he didn't have any ill will towards Prodigy by the end at all. So that, that was one. I just, I'm so curious what ideas didn't make it.

[Ebro Darden]

That's.

[Laura Stylez]

They chose such.

[Ebro Darden]

Really.

[Laura Stylez]

They chose great stuff.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right.

[Laura Stylez]

But it's. It's. That's what's. You didn't even think about how much. And guys they're going to do. You know, the way we got NAS in the world is yours. Sample for Dead Presidents.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

You know, in la, for the evils.

[Ebro Darden]

Snoop is coming out, I hope.

[Joy Reid]

Of course.

[Laura Stylez]

And you know, when he did the evils, they switched to the Murder Was the Case beat. Oh, yo, that beat hit so much more like that hit.

[Ebro Darden]

So you're right, he did maybe give us a little Easter egg right there for the LA show.

[Laura Stylez]

The LA show. No, Snoop's doing Murder Was the Case. Murder Was the Case.

[Ebro Darden]

And we might have to go to la. We might. After you said that. Yes. It's October.

[Laura Stylez]

It's October. We got time to see.

[Ebro Darden]

By the way, guys, by. By the way, guys, by the way, I'm going to Paris.

[Laura Stylez]

Is that you really going to do Paris?

[Ebro Darden]

I'm going to Paris. I might go to London too.

[Laura Stylez]

No, you need to calm down. No, you need. The glazing is out of control.

[Ebro Darden]

No, I have to. There's a after. It's just really hitting you, man.

[Laura Stylez]

It's really hitting la.

[Peter Rosenberg]

La.

[Laura Stylez]

LA is the one to me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

LA is the one. And it's going to be so fun. Like, see, listen, London and Paris would be great. We know the Europe hip hop fans are great, but I also kind of know what they're like.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

Whereas the LA thing, seeing LA celebrate this New York legend is going to be fun in its own right.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

Plus mad New Yorkers obviously are in.

[Ebro Darden]

But listen, London is like, London is September something.

[Laura Stylez]

September 4th, Beyonce's birthday. Yeah, don't get.

[Ebro Darden]

You're not going to go to London, Beyonce's birthday. What's Beyonce's birthday going to be like?

[Laura Stylez]

They're going to do Dan Dan and Young Hov in the rock.

[Ebro Darden]

Like that.

[Joy Reid]

And then.

[Ebro Darden]

And then I think September 10th, because I remember it was right before Blue. That's. He's gonna be in Paris for that. And then LA is not until the end of October.

[Laura Stylez]

I think LA's early October.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I said we go to. We go to la. Go to la.

[Laura Stylez]

I don't. I don't say. Well, listen, Laura, just. By the way, she's doing too many international trips this summer. So she's like, I'm only doing. Like she only has.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I said to. I was like, I might want to go to la.

[Ebro Darden]

Wait, Laura, you don't have money to invest?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I have.

[Laura Stylez]

I didn't say money. I Mean, more like time and long form.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like, I did send him and a

[Laura Stylez]

babysitter built it in la.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, I don't know if I said this to you, but I was like, yeah, I think I want to go to London. It was. It's Movada and Vibes Cartel.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh.

[Laura Stylez]

Oh, she said that, too. Wait, when is that gully in Gaza?

[Ebro Darden]

Wait, when is that? When is that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

When is it?

[Laura Stylez]

She sent me the flyer. It's soon fall.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was like, should we. I think we might need to. I've never been to London, guys.

[Ebro Darden]

What? I told you guys, no, we got to do that.

[Laura Stylez]

By the way, Laura, never going to London is a crazy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've never been. I've been to Helsinki, Finland.

[Laura Stylez]

You not having gone to London makes no sense. It's like my boy Jim Scranton McGee who didn't like mashed potatoes.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, September 9th is the one in the O2 Arena.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yes, that's the one.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah, they're clashing on July 18th also.

[Laura Stylez]

Wait, where's that?

[Ebro Darden]

That is in Jamaica.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, man, that's.

[Laura Stylez]

No, they're clashing in Jamaica. I gotta be honest.

[Ebro Darden]

That's this weekend, bro.

[Laura Stylez]

No, September 18th.

[Ebro Darden]

He said July 18th.

[Laura Stylez]

July 18th.

[Ebro Darden]

July at Reggae Sunfest. Yo, Movado and Cartel are clashing this weekend. Yeah.

[Laura Stylez]

Is that streaming?

[Joy Reid]

I don't know.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I hope so. Since we can't do that, let's go to London now.

[Laura Stylez]

That would be. That would be a lot of fun.

[Ebro Darden]

I know. We got Joy Reid coming up on the show, and we're going to run that back for y'.

[Joy Reid]

All.

[Ebro Darden]

And then tomorrow, remember, Patreon is where you can get a bulk of the content, which is, you know, the family stuff. But we still will pop on with things we missed.

[Laura Stylez]

Yes. So we'll have. We'll have a short, free show tomorrow on YouTube and then Patreon as well, if you want to join us there. For all kinds of hijinks before.

[Ebro Darden]

Before we get into Joy Reid, which we taped earlier in the week, I want to put this Charlie Kirk statue vid up that Laura sent in the chat. And I just want to tell everyone if she now, she sent this. This is a clip 12 for you. Basco 12 sneak peek of new Charlie Kirk mom unimp set to unveil in Times Square in December. Now, I mean, September.

[Laura Stylez]

That's not true.

[Ebro Darden]

I just want to say this might be like a person who bought a permit, you know, the same way you have, like, the different people who can dress up and go out there and take photos. So this person is likely creating this so that they can charge people to take photos next to it. Who knows tourism? But I also want to say that this is called Rage Bait, and that's

[Peter Rosenberg]

what that guy does. He does, like, statues of Donald Trump. Like, this is his thing. He's a megamaniac.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah. So let's. Let's all. Let's all not make this more than it needs to be. People want to go out there and take photos. Go take your photos. If Charlie Kirk is your savior, you know, I mean, do what you got to do.

[Laura Stylez]

I. I just. I. I don't really see in Mom, Donnie's New York, him being like, hey, let's go into Times Square.

[Ebro Darden]

No, but that's why he's doing it.

[Laura Stylez]

What do you mean?

[Ebro Darden]

This person.

[Laura Stylez]

This person. Right, right, of course.

[Ebro Darden]

But mom died. If I don't know the policy, like, I don't know who can buy permits to do.

[Laura Stylez]

Where are the statues in Times Square? It's not a thing.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, that looks like just like, a little art. Like somebody who brings out their own thing. Like, you know, in Times Square where somebody's, like, doing, like, a drawing.

[Laura Stylez]

Sure.

[Ebro Darden]

Or somebody's dressed up as Spider Man. I don't know how those things get approved. That's not like a giant statue. That stays.

[Laura Stylez]

You're right.

[Ebro Darden]

Permanently. I'm saying it's. He's going to wheel it out there.

[Laura Stylez]

Yes.

[Ebro Darden]

Promote it and then, like, try to cause havoc.

[Laura Stylez]

Correct.

[Ebro Darden]

Which is why I called it Rage.

[Laura Stylez]

And then be like, they don't want me to have this here. They don't think there should.

[Ebro Darden]

New York City's hating on Charlie Kirk and try to, like, get people to come here and vandalize it and turn it into a whole thing.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah. I'm not falling for that. That ain't.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah. So that's why I wanted to show it, because at some point, we're. We're gonna see this, and, you know, I just don't want people to give it more energy than it needs to get. You know, if we start ignoring stuff, it goes away.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Does it?

[Laura Stylez]

Is that true?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Does it?

[Ebro Darden]

If people ignore it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know. I have mixed feelings about that, because I was like, if you ignore it, then I think it will exist and it will be there longer.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, no, I meant like, that. That sort of thing. If nobody shows up to take photos with that thing, it won't happen or covers what's happening. It goes away. He's gone. I'm not saying the KKK goes away. If we ignore it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying white supremacy goes away if we ignore it.

[Laura Stylez]

Right.

[Ebro Darden]

I'm saying, you know, there's certain things that if we don't give it any energy.

[Laura Stylez]

If you're intentionally trolling.

[Ebro Darden]

Right. There it is. Let's get into Joy Reid joining the show right now.

[Laura Stylez]

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[Joy Reid]

Wasn't that delicious?

[Peter Rosenberg]

So good.

[Laura Stylez]

Your bill, ladies.

[Joy Reid]

I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I insisted first.

[Joy Reid]

Don't be silly. You know, be silly.

[Ebro Darden]

People with the Wells Fargo active cash

[Laura Stylez]

credit card prefer to pay because they

[Ebro Darden]

earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Joy Reid]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No.

[Laura Stylez]

The Wells Fargo active cash credit card.

[Ebro Darden]

Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply. Got a Sam's Cafe pizza.

[Laura Stylez]

Order up.

[Ebro Darden]

Mm, mm, mm.

[Laura Stylez]

You know the best part about this spicy Italian sausage? I voted for this topping.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah, Just another perk of being a member.

[Laura Stylez]

Come join us, Sam's Club.

[Ebro Darden]

The host of the Joy Reid Show, Joy Reid. Give it up one time. Hey, hey, hey. Thanks for joining our program.

[Joy Reid]

Look, it's an honor. I'm a fan, so I appreciate being able to come to the table so.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, we have, we have loved what your work that you've done, both on MSNBC and what you started for yourself here after msnbc. But I wanted to just ask you about that because Rosenberg and I were talking before this conversation that you, you know, as a black woman who's been under attack by the Trump administration as well as his sycophants and all of that being at msnbc, I'm sure there was a level of kind of corporate protection, right? Like feeling like you had, you know, some, some people in your. That had your back, but now doing it on your own. How does it feel? And is. Are the attacks still as aggressive?

[Joy Reid]

You know, it's interesting because I think you assume that if you're in a corporate environment, that that is protection, but in a way it is, and in a way it isn't. Right? Because what the corporation wants is for you to not be attacked by people in power and for you to not respond. And so generally, you know, when I would get attacked by Fox or I would get attacked by Trump or his people. You know, what my bosses wanted was for me to not say anything.

[Ebro Darden]

Got it.

[Joy Reid]

For me to not respond. And I was a responder, especially when I was active on Twitter, I was very quick to clap back, and they did not like that. And so the difference now that I'm not in a corporate. In a corporate media environment is now I can respond. You know, there's a freedom, actually defend myself that did not really exist when I was there. Because, you know, people think that when you're at a kind of nominally liberal network, that they want to be in a fight with the right, and they don't. They're a corporation. They would rather not be in a fight with the government.

[Ebro Darden]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

So, yeah, it wasn't like protection. It was like, why are you making them mad? Please stop doing that.

[Laura Stylez]

Right. Like, they wanted to do the news the way they did it. They understood who your guys audiences were, but they still didn't want to encounter active problems. Was there a moment when you started feeling like this is going bad? They're clearly having enough of me sort of getting into it with the right.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, the first time Donald Trump actually tweeted at me, and this had to be like 2018, you know, he was in. He was in office, and I was told in unequivocally, do not respond. So I just kind of had to let it go. Right. And then in the last year that I was there, I was hyper scrutinized. Anything I posted about him, don't post that, don't repost anything. That's like a, you know, me mocking the president. You know, it was just. It was very intense. They really did not want to fight with this man. And I think it was clear that, you know, and I get it in a way, you know, their corporation is not just their news business. They have a bigger business. They have theme parks, they have broad television networks that they've now really literally separated the artists formerly known as MSNBC from their broadcast networks because the FCC regulates the broadcast side. So anything you say that pisses off the administration could impact their bigger business. So, you know, a lot of people see msnbc. That's what you see from the outside, but from the inside, it's a corporation that has business with the government. So they don't want. They don't want you in a fight with the government.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, and on that note, this week, you know, there's the Trump doing his speech and whatever comes out of his mouth, we probably can't believe Much of it, which is a whole conversation I want to have about like accepting because I still see all of us in media, try every time the President, which is, I mean, it's the President of the United States. We're accustomed to listening to the words that comes out of that person's mouth and believing it. Yeah, right. We are currently living in a time where that's not the case. Like it is just, it's literally words with no meaning. But we're living in a time where many corporations have had to toe the line, kowtow, payout, all of these things. Are you seeing anybody get a backbone, any corporations, anyone actually having a backbone as we get towards these midterms to stand up for this reality that we're in where we have a president who can't be trusted, can't be believed, and is out of his marbles.

[Joy Reid]

I mean, the only thing I would call what you said, brother, is had to, they didn't have to do anything. You know, I mean, these are corporations that pay millions of dollars to the top law firms in the country. Their in house legal teams are top notch. They didn't have to pay them. CBS didn't have to pay them. ABC didn't have to have to pay him. George Stephanopoulos did nothing wrong. They would have won that case had it gone to court. They would have won the cbs. Donald Trump's lawsuit against cbs.

[Ebro Darden]

But they don't want to fight. To your point. They don't want to fight.

[Joy Reid]

Exactly, exactly. They don't have to pay. But what they, what they, the way that these corporations are situated is that they want to pay. This is an active bribe. There is no way Melania Trump would have gotten $40 million to do a documentary about her clothes and her party going and whatever else that stupid movie was about. That was a bribe. You know, and these corporations are like, the easiest way to deal with an autocrat is bribe him. What Donald Trump wants, and I've written a Trump biography, what he wants is, is the appearance of respect and money. And that's all he wants. He wants you to praise him and he wants money. And so if you understand Donald Trump, and he's that simple, he really is that simple. You pay him, give him a lot of money, let him be as rich as he's ever wanted to be, that he could not become through his chosen profession. He's a real estate developer, couldn't become a billionaire doing that because he's really not that good at that. But you just give him money and you praise him. Treat him like a king. Tell him he's great. Give him praise. That's all he wants. And so corporations are like, yeah, that's how to deal with that dictator. Just pay him and praise him. And so they're all doing it. It's shameful. It's embarrassing. It's made our media an object of mockery. Did y' all see the other day, Jake Tapper take a call? First of all, back in the day, I'm og. I'm an old school. I'm an old bitch. I tell people from the media. In the olden days, you could not call in to Meet the Press or any. The president would have to bring his ass and sit down and Meet the Press. Now he gets to call in. And now that's a thing. He gets to call in to Meet the Press. He gets to call into cnn. He called into CNN the other day and rebuked Jake Tapper on Jake's show, made him look like a scrub, treated him like a child, slapped him around on his own show and said, I don't want to talk about that. And you're going to stop talking about that. Don't ask. Don't ask me any questions about Iran. I'm trying to get CNN on a normal path. And Jake Tapper's response was, yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm on a normal path now. I'm like, what are we doing?

[Ebro Darden]

Wow.

[Laura Stylez]

I didn't see that completely.

[Ebro Darden]

Jake Tapper has had to tap. He tapped dance, tapped out.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's crazy.

[Joy Reid]

I was embarrassed for him. I'm like, you let that. Jim Acosta would never. Jim Acosta had Trump for lunch. But, you know, that's what they do now, even Meet the Press. Everything is, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, Mr. President, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, Mr. President, sir, please don't leave, sir. We. We paid so much money to fly out here and interview you, sir. Like, everything is so solicitous. They kiss up to Donald Trump in a way that I've only seen them do for George W. Bush. They don't do this with Democratic presidents. No. No one. Yes or yes or Barack Obama like that. They only do it with these Republicans because Republicans know how to exercise power, and Republicans will hurt them. And so they're like, they'll take things from me. We have to kiss up. So the only people who are not doing that are independent media. Don Lemon's not doing it. I'm not doing it. You know, Jim Acosta in his independent show is not doing it at this point. Only independent media is willing to stand up to Trump the way he needs to. Now, there are some people in mainstream journalism that are still doing it, you know, like Lawrence o' Donnell would never, you know, Rachel Maddow would never. Like, they're, they're still doing what they do and they're still doing it, you know, very well. I think Nicole Wallace is still doing it. Like, there are still people doing it, but it's a lot more dangerous because people know you can get fired.

[Laura Stylez]

Stephanopoulos had a good battle back and forth with, with Vance before he kind of hung up on him.

[Joy Reid]

He's great.

[Laura Stylez]

And I thought, I thought, yeah, no,

[Joy Reid]

George Stephanopoulos, he, he's still George. Like George is still georging, you know, so some people are still doing it.

[Laura Stylez]

And I thought Kristen fought hard in that Meet the Press moment when she went out there to Indiana, wherever the hell she went. But, but he puts these people sometimes, Joy, it seems like in impossible situations and tries to then literally intimidate them in front of the world.

[Joy Reid]

Exactly. His goal is to humiliate people. So if you understand Donald Trump, you have to understand that per his niece, Mary Trump, he was raised by sociopaths. His parents were sociopathic, and he was raised without love. He's never known love. And so there's this loveless, angry little boy that now has the powers of the most powerful office in the world. And he's using it, you know, the way Charlie X on Star Trek used it, you know, to freeze people and make their mouths disappear if they say anything that he thinks is mean, like he, there's something wrong with that man. And so he wants to humiliate Kristen Welker, not do an interview with her. And she's in this terrible position because if she claps back too hard, she's going to get rebuked by her bosses. They don't want her to get in a showdown with him. If you come too hard against him, you'll get in trouble.

[Laura Stylez]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

So these, these journalists are in a terrible position. You know, I feel badly again for Jake Tapper, for her. I feel badly for them because I, I been there. You're not going to be supported in getting in a knockdown, drag out argument with the President, United States. You're going to get in trouble.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Joy, I wanted to ask you because, you know, we've been covering the murders of these two men that were murdered by ICE agents this week, and you had an episode called Born in the usa. I'm curious to know what kind of feedback you got from that episode and your personal opinion, like, where do you see this going?

[Joy Reid]

Well, I mean, the feedback we got was, you know, people are horrified. People are scared at this point, even if they've been a naturalized citizen for a long time. You know, my parents were both, you know, foreigners when I was born. You know, I'm a first generation. I'm a natural. You know, I'm a citizen that is, you know, created by chain migration. You know, I'm a birthright citizen. And so I think that I've never lived in a time in America when people who were, you know, chose this country feel so afraid to be in this country, to go to work, to leave their homes. And so, you know, that one moment when the Supreme Court for once, barely did the right thing and affirmed that what it says in the 14th amendment is literally what it means, that those words mean what they say. I think it was a temporary relief. But no one thinks that this is over. You know, and a lot of the conversations I've had since that episode are, you know, we won one round in a very long boxing match, and we, you know, and we got a lot of rounds to go because they will be back to try to take birthright citizenship again. And in the meantime, they're just killing people. You know, Mr. Salgado Araujo just killed them. They just killed another person in Maine. I did. So we're just not safe on our own streets.

[Ebro Darden]

Joy. All of the things we're talking about with Trump now, this ICE thing, and we'll get into, you know, the, the sham. The sham and the. And the embarrassment. That's Iran and the straight of Hormuz and all of that stuff on the Internet. People are like, where are the Democrats? What are they doing? Why is this happening? Do something, stop something. What are you hearing? What do you know? And what has been the, the, the. Has there been a Democratic plan to stop this, slow any of this down?

[Joy Reid]

I mean, you know, on the one hand, Democrats are in a terrible position because they don't control any part of the government. You know, they don't have majorities in either House, obviously. They don't have the White House. And the Supreme Court is, you know, six Republicans who just act like Republicans. They act like politicians rather than judges. And so, you know, Democrats are in a bad position. Can they actually stop the war? No. Legislatively? No. Can they shut off the money? No. So I think their problem is now rhetorical. It's what do. What do Democratic. What do the leadership in the Democratic Party say that makes it feel like they're fighting. Some of them really know how to talk like fighters, I think Jon Ossoff, I just listened to one of the speeches he did in Georgia recently. Brilliant. Like, he speaks like a fighter. He knows how to communicate like he's fighting. Not a lot of national Democrats know how to do that. And so I think the problem they have right now is that they don't sound like they're fighting, and the leadership really doesn't sound like it. And the people who sound and feel like they're really putting their bodies on the line and fighting are the progressives that the leadership can't stand. So the people who are fighting the hardest and who are actually delivering real material change to their people, like Zorhan Mamdani, the leadership in D.C. does not like those people and doesn't want more of them.

[Ebro Darden]

You mean the Democratic Socialists?

[Laura Stylez]

Oh, my God. I had to talk about this with my. My dad this weekend, Joy. My dad is about to be 79 next month and just continues to get more progressive as he gets older. In fact, I didn't tell you guys, this past weekend, my dad got three different color momdani shirts.

[Ebro Darden]

Oh, he's in. He's in. Okay.

[Laura Stylez]

My dad hasn't voted in a New York election in 40 years. And he's walking around Chevy Chase, Maryland, and we walked past this woman the other day in our neighborhood. And my dad's very friendly. He's like, hi, good morning. And she was like. And gave him like a little half ass. I was like, oh, dad, that lady feeling your Mom Donna shirt. My dad goes, good. But anyways, God bless him. He was telling me about some of his friends of the same age, Boomers who, you know, were always seemingly progressive, who now are like, so moderate that they're terrified of these people. What the hell do we do about this problem, Joy? Because we can all hate the things the right stands for, but hey, Tea Party got energy. We're going to get behind the Tea Party. This. This lunatic is starting this MAGA movement. Hey, it's hot. Let's get behind it. There's no reason why there has to be this rift. What can we possibly do to convince these boomers and others that the Democratic Socialists, that's what you want to call them, exactly, Are not actually scary. What do we do about this?

[Joy Reid]

Well, look, you can do what MAGA did and what the Tea Party did, which is they just beat them in primaries. And once they started to lose enough primaries, the Mitch McConnells and the John Thunes and the Reaganite normie Republicans just began to behave. Mitt Romney started sounding more like a Tea Partier. They just forced them to behave by beating them in primaries. And the fear of losing a primary, believe it or not, is enough to make politicians heal. It brings them to heal immediately. It's the best, you know, sort of therapy for people who are resistant to change. And that's all the Tea Party did. They just beat them in primaries. And the reason that incumbents get so much support is that the biggest fear that politicians have is that in a primary, which is where people have the most power, they'll choose somebody that's more progressive, that will actually do something. And I've been arguing this, and I guess the Democratic Party people don't like me very much for saying it, but they need to lose some primaries to people who are more progressive, who are more like Mamdani, because that's what people want. They want change. They don't want to just have the blue jersey on and feel good that it's a Democrat that's not doing shit for them. They want something to change. And at a certain point, politics is transactional. And I think what younger people understand is that it's a transaction. I'm only going to vote for you because you're going to change my life, not because you have the blue jersey on. And so Democrats need to offer more than the blue jersey. And so I just think they just need to lose a bunch more primaries to progressives, and they just need to live with it. They'll, they'll, they'll behave. Once they see that the progressives are winning, they'll do what they have to do. They'll comply.

[Ebro Darden]

Hearing you talk about Democrats, quote, can't stand Democratic socialists. The word can't stand. What's not to stand? Like, what's not to like about the policies they're talking about? Like, you know what I mean? And I think that's the frustrating thing for the common voter, which is like, democratic socialist. What the fuck are you saying? I don't even. Okay, you're talking about things that I like, all right? And boom, let's, let's get to it. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. And instead of talking about, like, you're talking about blue jersey and this and that, a lot of voters want to talk about policy, which is why you have Trump distracting with this whole Ossoff and, and Warnock were elected illegitimately six years ago in 2020 and all of this shit, because they want to distract from policy. Convos. So, like, what? Don't Democrats actually, like, like, like, make it make sense?

[Joy Reid]

It doesn't. I mean, the reality is that if you break down. We just had Abdul Al Sayed on the Jury Reed show literally yesterday, last night.

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

And when he's talking. And maybe you need the music again, because I do believe he is a Democratic socialist. I just like the music. I just left the music. And what he wants to do, rather than send $3 billion a year to Israel and another 2 billion a year to Egypt, which is where his people are from, so he's like, don't even send it there. What he wants to do instead is open Medicare to everyone, meaning that everyone in the United States, regardless of your age or income, could get access to health care. Shocker. He wants to take some of that money that we're sending overseas to drop bombs on brown people and instead shore up the hospitals in Michigan so that you actually can get a doctor or a nurse when you're sick. He wants people access to preschool. Instead of having to go broke trying to put your kid in preschool so you can go to work every day at your underpaid job, you get preschool for free. Like, the things he wants are things Democrats used to say they wanted. But because Democratic socialists and because progressives are saying, oh,

[Ebro Darden]

sorry, sorry. Okay.

[Joy Reid]

Because. Because they're saying, we're not just going to talk about these things, we're actually going to deliver them in real life. We're going to make them real. The Democratic leadership dislikes them because the Democratic leadership prefers to coast on the idea of Trump. Bad. They just coast.

[Ebro Darden]

Not gonna work anymore, guys. It's over.

[Joy Reid]

It's gonna be true.

[Ebro Darden]

It's not gonna work anymore. It's over.

[Joy Reid]

Not gonna work.

[Ebro Darden]

By the way. And by the way, it's been over. It hasn't worked. Y' all have lost, and you've lost two of three.

[Joy Reid]

Correct. And everyone knows he's bad. Everyone knows he's corrupt. Everybody knows he's a thief. Everybody knows he's an idiot. Everybody knows he's too old to be in the White House. Everybody knows these things. They know he's terrible at his job. We know that. But the reality is, again, it's a transaction. The question is, you can't replace something with nothing. And what Democrats are doing at the national level is they're just saying the word affordability a lot. And they think if we say the word affordability and say, put the blue jersey in, that'll be enough for voters. It isn't. You need to offer material change. Lower prices on your actual rent, lower prices on your actual food, lower prices on the actual cost of gas, free preschool, access to health care. Like, specific things. And the pressure to have to really deliver that. It makes them uncomfortable.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, and then take it a step further. Like, take it a step further, like sayed and say, and stop giving billions to Israel and Egypt and these other places that don't have our children's best interests at heart. And let's invest in our communities, because there's definitely. I mean, it's a clear blowback against aipac. Like, that is clear. Like, if you have that on you.

[Joy Reid]

I'm sorry, go ahead.

[Ebro Darden]

No, I was just going to say, if you have that next to your name anywhere, accepting donations, like, we just keep seeing losses and losses, Right?

[Joy Reid]

Because I think what people are finally realizing is the reason we can't have nice things, the reason our bridges. When you drive around the country, it's embarrassing. My daughter just came back from a trip to Japan. She's like, mom, their buses and trains are pristine.

[Ebro Darden]

No, it's amazing.

[Joy Reid]

Super fast. They're clean. Their infrastructure is great. You walk around the streets, it's clean. We are living, like, in a dump. Like, the one thing Trump ever said that's true is our. Our airport crap. Our roads are crap. Our infrastructure is crap. It's like the 1970s, 60s. It's not even up to date. While other countries are living their best life, Israelis get free health care and free education. We pay for where we can't pay for it for ourselves. We don't only want to stop the bombing of Palestinian kids. We want that money back to fix our roads, our schools, our hospitals. And the reason I actually think Democrats object to the idea of delivering the things they say they're for is that to do that, they'd have to take money away from Israel. And the lobbyists demand that they keep giving Israel money. They'd have to take money away from the big hospital giants that also fund them. And the hospital giants are like, well, you can't take our money away and give it to the people. They're. They're answering to too many corporate interests and too many lobbies because you'd have to take money away from those lobbies to give it to the people. And so the Democrats, just like the Republicans, they're beholden to too many rich lobbies that don't want them to take away that money and give it to the American.

[Ebro Darden]

And this is the. And we always talk about this two wings of the same Bird shit. When people say that, I generally disagree. But when it comes to the money and the money in politics, you have to agree.

[Joy Reid]

Right? I mean, they're not the same. I mean, one thing I will say is on their worst day, the Democrats are not fascists.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right.

[Joy Reid]

The Republican Party at this point is a racist fascist party. The MAGA movement is just packaged up racism and fascism and that's all it is. And so they're not the same in the sense that Republican Party, what Republicans believe in is actually morally evil.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right.

[Joy Reid]

Democrats are morally evil, but they're not strong and they don't lead. And when it comes to, as you said, to taking money from these wealthy lobbies, including aipac, they are the same. What AIPAC is doing right now in our elections is they're trying to win. Either way, they fund the Democrat and they fund the Republican. So whichever one wins, they win. And Israel gets your money anyway.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right.

[Joy Reid]

To bomb Palestinian kids instead of paying for your health care. It's an either or. Either Israel gets the bombs or you get your health care. There's a finite amount of money. We would rather spend that money on us than on bombing those poor kids.

[Laura Stylez]

But, but don't despair, because if somehow things and, and in Israel, they will find more kids to bomb elsewhere the United States.

[Joy Reid]

We're already in Lebanon.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, and that's why they're. We were talking the other day, I was like, we're talking about bombing Iran. But I'm not hearing like, where are these bombs being dropped? Is this a cover for what Israel's doing in southern Lebanon? Like, why are you talking to me about your bombing the side of a mountain in Iran? Just because while there's humans actually being bombed in southern Lebanon,

[Joy Reid]

first of all, how are you going to have a whole war to get rid of the elderly Ayatona Ayatollah Khamenei, to replace him with a young Ayatollah Khomeini? You've literally done no regime change. It's the same guy's child. So it's like you would, what was the purpose of this war? Again, you do a war that then closes the straight of Hormuz and now we're fighting to reopen the straight of Hormuz. It was open before you started and

[Ebro Darden]

then charged, and then charged money to go through the strait, which was free before.

[Joy Reid]

You don't turn Iran into the toll troll. You have empowered this mid level power in the Middle east and made them the most powerful country in that region because they are the toll collector and they were made the toll collector by Donald Trump. You almost gotta wonder, are they giving him a side check? Because this has been great for them. They have decided to bomb the crap out of all the Gulf countries that are our allies. So all our allies are going, why are we allied with you? We're getting bombed now. UAE that was hosting comedy festivals and fashion shows is now getting the shit bombed out of them. So it's like this has been bad for the whole region. Meanwhile, Israel is trying to steal southern Lebanon to make their, their Greater Israel project because, you know, their goal is to have piece of Turkey, have a piece of Jordan. They want to have all of Palestine. They want a little piece of Egypt. They want a piece of like five different countries to make their giant Israel. That's their goal. They just want land. They're trying to expand and make themselves. Five times.

[Ebro Darden]

I mean, he's been clear about it.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. Since the 70s. Since the 70s, this guy's been saying our goal. And he, he himself, from what I understand, is not a religious man. But in order to stay in power, he's empowered these religious fanatics around him whose goal is this, Eretz Israel. And he's going to give them that so he can stay in power for life. And because the only way to stay out of prison, since he's corrupt and is due to go on trial for corruption, the only way to stay out of prison is to stay at war. As long as they're at war, he gets to stay in power. And that's the goal.

[Ebro Darden]

Well, Joy Ann Reid, we thank you for your time today. Great conversation.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you.

[Ebro Darden]

We didn't get to Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell. You know, now everybody dead.

[Joy Reid]

What is happening, y' all think? Can I just ask y' all before we go, I know we out of time. Do you guys think Mitch McConnell's alive?

[Ebro Darden]

No.

[Joy Reid]

What?

[Peter Rosenberg]

No.

[Ebro Darden]

No.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That AI photo, those, those jeans in the hospital.

[Ebro Darden]

Why are you dressed like that in the hospital?

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah, the photo did not help the cause.

[Joy Reid]

Can I tell y', all, my, my makeup artist caught, caught it. She was like, that dude has makeup on. He's a professional makeup artist looked at that picture and said, he's wearing makeup. So you have made up. Someone came and took your picture. You wrote an eight paragraph opus in the time. You wrote those eight paragraphs. Supposedly. You supposedly wrote that eight paragraphs. Why did you just go on camera and do a video?

[Ebro Darden]

Well, so there's that part. Now there is, listen, there is a, you know, maybe he's still breathing and heart beating, but brain dead. Right. So most people would say, you know, he's. Yes, he's still alive in that regard. Right. Like he's not passed. They have him on a, a respirator or some sort of machine keeping him alive. So that's a possibility for sure.

[Joy Reid]

It's possible. And he can't commute. The clear thing is he cannot communicate verbally.

[Ebro Darden]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

Okay, whatever is his. What? And then they do the belated post on his Facebook. All of this is being done on his Facebook page. So this is my, my final critique of the media before I let y' all go. I'm sorry, I'm like taking up your time.

[Laura Stylez]

That was great.

[Joy Reid]

But the meat. But the media saying that there are headlines that say Mitch McConnell finally speaks out. He did not speak out. And so any headlines saying that he spoke out or that he finally confirmed that he's okay, that's not true. There's a Facebook post on his official Facebook page that has a photo of him with his wife and an eight paragraph missive about.

[Ebro Darden]

But he didn't say shit. There is no audio of him saying shit at all.

[Joy Reid]

And the other problem is the 911 call that was released kind of contradicts what he says in that Facebook post where he's saying he had a fall and then he had a brief spot of pneumonia. Someone called 911 to your. To your, your, you know, to your home that you were taken away in an ambulance. Dude. Like, this is more serious than a mere fall. I mean, I guess it could have been a fall at his age.

[Ebro Darden]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

But it's all. I think what's happening is he needs to appear to be still coherent through August 8th, which is the deadline. If he can make it through August 8th, they don't have to have a special election. This is about trying to deny Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky, the opportunity to legally replace him in the immediate future. He could theoretically replace him, put in a temporary placeholder for that office, and that person can vote and they'd be a Democrat.

[Ebro Darden]

That's right. And similarly in South Carolina, but their laws are different. Right. Because Lindsey Graham's passing, the governor has to appoint someone who is a Republican.

[Joy Reid]

That's right. And he appointed his sister. So he's. But, but because Lindsey Graham was running for reelection, there still has to be a special election before November. So that special election will take place in August. Lindsey Graham's sister will hold the office until the special election. But there now will be a snap quick election because he was running for reelection in Kentucky, the Republican legislature. Because Andy Beshear won the governorship, they quickly passed a law disallowing him from appointing a replacement if somebody dies in office. But he could challenge that because it's never been tested with an incapacitated U.S. senator.

[Peter Rosenberg]

So he.

[Joy Reid]

This is the thing that's making people say, yeah, this is politics. Not long before that Facebook post went up, Governor Andy Beshear did an interview on Reverend Sharpton show on Ms. Now, the new MSNBC. And not long after that interview, where he said, I will challenge for my right to appoint a replacement if I don't get a proof of life on this man, because I have not gotten a proof of life as the governor of this state. Then that Facebook post went up not long after. So they did the proof of life. This is about thwarting Andy Beshear. This is not about Mitch McConnell. So Mitch McConnell may be dead. Alive, brain dead, we don't know. But we do know that he's incapacitated, that he cannot return to the Senate and vote anytime soon. That's also been disclosed. So this is about stopping Andy Beshear from appointing a Democrat to that seat. That's what this is about.

[Ebro Darden]

One last question. You, as somebody who's dealt with politics and politicians for a long time, Lindsey Graham passes and you see the outpouring of. Of decent, let's call it decency and in some cases, love from individuals in the Democratic Party. And then I saw voters who were like, I hate you guys. This man has harmed lgbtq trans. How are. How are you a voted and elected person? And you're doting and talking about this guy being your friend when he is a harmful, hateful, evil person. Like people were losing their shit. Right. How do you feel about that when you. When you see different, when you see this?

[Joy Reid]

No, God. You know, it's. It's the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats are so traditional, and they uphold all of the traditions of politics, which I guess is sweet if we weren't in fascism. You know, I mean, one of the things people like about Donald Trump, and I despise Donald Trump, let's just be clear. I was a teenager when the Central Park Five, when that was, you know, I was their age. And so I lived in. You know, I was living through being a teenager in New York when he was calling for the death of five black and brown young men for doing nothing wrong. You know, for doing nothing. Who are railroaded into prison some for 13 years. Right. So I Despise. I never even watched the Apprentice. That's how much I'm a hater, right?

[Ebro Darden]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

But one thing people like about him is he doesn't pretend that he likes somebody he doesn't like. When. When. When poor John McCain died, he poured scorn on that man. He pours scorn on people he hates. And I don't. It's not very decor. It's not great decorum, but people on his side like that. He keeps it real. Democrats, they keep up the decorum. But if we're being honest, you know, when. When Henry Kissinger died, that was a horrible, evil man. When Charlie Kirk died, what I remembered about Charlie Kirk was the horrible things he said about black people, gay people, women. And I'm like, I'm not gonna not remember that because that he died in a tragic way. He was still a horrible person. And Lindsey Grant, a horrible person. He just was. We talked about it last night. If we're being honest, he betrayed his good friend. John McCain did not defend him when Donald Trump disparaged his war service. He betrayed his good friend Joe Biden. Though he said he loves Joe Biden, he still approved investigating Joe Biden's son. And he knew that was bullshit. He literally betrayed his own principles. He stood up on January 6, 2021, and said that, I'm out. I'm done. This is wrong. He gave the history of the South's attempt to overthrow elections that led to the end of Reconstruction. So he knew better. He still sucked up to Donald Trump, told Michael Fanon and the mother of a dead Capitol Police officer, you are not going to blame Donald Trump for this. Even though he blamed Donald Trump for it, he betrayed his principles. A lot of people believe he was closeted, but he was very anti lgbt, you name it. Bad man. And so when he dies, I think we have to be honest about that and don't do fake encomiums to somebody who. Who did wrong and did dirt and did evil and was a traitor to his own principles. That's what I remember about Lindsey Graham.

[Laura Stylez]

Yeah. I just think, like, in particular, the way the Democrats do it often is just so weak. Like, there was a way Cory Booker could have expressed himself that disappointed me. He could have pointed out, you know, one, you know, there's a way to show decorum and not look like an ass kisser. And Cory Booker did what he often does and just looked like an ass kisser.

[Peter Rosenberg]

He called him a hero.

[Laura Stylez]

It's just too far. It's just there's. Listen. And we have to be able to draw different lines between the way, for example, you know, Barack Obama would talk about John McCain, who had actual heroic qualities, even if he had political things we really disagreed with, we have to be able to draw the different lines between a McCain and a Lindsey Graham. And that's what makes people like Booker and other Democrats such. Just such disappointments.

[Joy Reid]

No, you're absolutely right. John McCain. I had deep disagreements with John McCain on most things, and I thought in many ways he was a warmonger, but he was an objective hero. He was a hero. He did not leave his men behind in Vietnam when he could have, because of his political position, he could have social position, he could have left them. And he didn't. So he's a hero. And when he died, what you most remembered about him was that he was a war hero who did the thumbs down and protected Obamacare, and that he really, in a decent, in an act of pure decency, defended Barack Obama when he was running against him for president, when a woman tried to lie about Barack Obama. And so you had to. Those are the things you most remember about John McCain. What are the things you most remember about Lindsey Graham? Him saying I'm out after January 6th, and then betraying that. Him saying, I love Joe Biden and then betraying. Him betraying his good friend John McCain. All I remember is him being a traitor to his principles. And I'm not sure what you could say about him is heroic. I mean, you know, sadly, I think probably.

[Ebro Darden]

And on that, on that note, Joy, when he was running for office, Lindsey Graham in 2016, he's video, on video openly talking about what Donald Trump is and how bad he is and how he's a liar and a thief and all of these things and can't be trusted. That was the be. That's at the beginning,

[Joy Reid]

his tweet. If we nominate Donald Trump, we will be destroyed and we will deserve it. That's his most memorable tweet. The things you most remember about him, he called Donald Trump a kook, a racist, and then he turned around and said, I love him. He's my favorite president. Like, what happened here? And what happened is true honor. And yeah, Donald Trump gave him war. And I think he loved Israel. And I think, you know, Cory Booker is very pro Israel. And so I think they agreed on that. And so maybe that's why he considered him heroic, but I don't know. I couldn't call him heroic.

[Ebro Darden]

Sorry. Well, yeah, I called him spineless. And mostly because, you know, everything we just, you know, ran down. And the fact that, you know, people knew, it was common knowledge that his lifestyle was not the one he perpetuated publicly. But by the way, that's none of our business, honestly, if you're voting for somebody. But if you're going to now demean and harm the individuals who also live a similar lifestyle, I have a problem with you.

[Laura Stylez]

I just want to say that Joy somehow surpassed you last week when you had the transition to McConnell being brain dead. She saw that and she raised you by going, everybody dead.

[Joy Reid]

Everybody dead.

[Ebro Darden]

Everybody dead.

[Laura Stylez]

What was mine? You just changed the subject. You were like, well, Mitch McConnell's brain dead. You did one of those. But she went. She leveled up.

[Ebro Darden]

Everybody's dead.

[Laura Stylez]

Thanks, Joy.

[Ebro Darden]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

Joy needs a musical, like, hit for that. You just do everybody dead. It needs, like, a song.

[Laura Stylez]

We're making a drop, don't you worry.

[Joy Reid]

Everybody dead, please.

[Laura Stylez]

Thanks, Joy.

[Ebro Darden]

Joy, thank you. And everybody go check out the hoist, the host of the Joy Reed Show. Joy and Reed with us today, and we hope to have you back.

[Joy Reid]

I would love to come back anytime.

[Ebro Darden]

All right, take care.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thank you.

[Joy Reid]

All right, brothers, thank you. Thank you, and thanks. Take care.

[Laura Stylez]

Bye.

[Ebro Darden]

But don't call it a podcast. Job site moved.

[Laura Stylez]

Your crew needs four more rooms tomorrow.

[Ebro Darden]

If you booked on your own, you could be left high and dry. But you booked with Engine, found the right hotel with one click and avoided cancellation fees because Engine lets you do that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Two.

[Ebro Darden]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Ouch. This knee is killing me. But I can't stop training. The marathon is in two weeks. Let's get on Zocdoc and find a doctor to take a look at that for you. Okay, Here's a review. Dr. Craddock really takes his time. No, I don't have time. What about Dr. Charles? His patients say he can help find a quick fix and he's in network. Great. Now we're talking. Book it.

[Joy Reid]

Booked.

[Peter Rosenberg]

One mile down, 19 to go. Bring it on.

[Ebro Darden]

You've got Options. Download the ZocDoc app today.

[Laura Stylez]

Some personality quirks are really funny. Like, I talk to my left foot more than I talk to my right. You know what's not funny and not a personality quirk?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Ocd.

[Laura Stylez]

Although the term OCD is widely recognized, it's misunderstood by most people. It doesn't mean being tidy or clean. It's having obsessive fears, thoughts, and urges. You question your character, you question your safety. That's OCD. Breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment. Go to nocd.com to learn more.