36.) Vic Mensa Talks Chicago, Bad Bunny, + Being Independent (2/13/26)

Summary

---

The Ebro, Laura, Rosenberg Show: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Vic Mensa Talks Chicago, Bad Bunny, + Being Independent
Date: February 13, 2026
Guests: Vic Mensa
Hosts: Ebro, Laura, Rosenberg

---

Overview

In this lively, thought-provoking conversation, Ebro, Laura, and Rosenberg welcome Vic Mensa for the first guest appearance on their newly-independent show. The group delves deep into Vic’s evolution as an artist, his recent independent music journey, commitment to political advocacy, navigating social media, family life, and Chicago politics. They tie this together with broader commentary on current events, the challenges of speaking truth in the music industry, and the complexity of identity, activism, and social solidarity in today's world.

---

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Freedom, Ownership, and Media Platforms

• The hosts kick off discussing how little creators truly own—just the studio and their voices, not the platforms (00:16). This segues into the episode's broader reflections of independence, control, and authenticity.

2. Discomfort with "Teams" and Tribalism in Media

• The group debates public figures (Van Jones, Bill Maher, Don Lemon), highlighting the dangers of “team” mentalities and how rapidly alignments can shift based on societal conditions (00:36–04:33).
• Ebro emphasizes shifting alliances: “Let’s just say depending on what’s going on in society, you may align with people you didn’t align before.” (02:24)
• Vic reflects on ideological confusion and self-hate within the Black community, and how misinformation and "red pill" content thrive when people lack a sense of self or solid community (04:52).

3. Vic Mensa’s Independent Pivot & Creative Process

• Vic explains why he’s gone independent, directly distributing his music and merch, and embracing his creative and cultural heritage (05:11-05:55).
  • “I more specifically told myself about a year ago I was gonna take part in social media…I’m gonna just see what works.” (06:25 - Vic Mensa)
  • His viral “orange tree” videos underscore how authenticity can cut through the digital noise:
  • “The orange tree thing just work. It’s just in my backyard.” (06:25)
• The power of hip-hop’s educational roots and personal growth through artistry:
  • “Hip hop has always been, like, knowledge has been a core tenet, a pillar of hip hop ... even what I’m doing right now is hip hop.” (08:06 - Vic Mensa)

4. Social Media as a Double-Edged Sword

• While many find social media toxic, Vic feels it’s helped him connect and express himself honestly (10:16).
  • “It’s helping me express who I am…the way I’m using it now has given me a space to do that through my own channel.” (10:16 - Vic Mensa)
  • Still, he avoids comment sections for mental health:
  • “It could be…it’s like Tom and Jerry. Either you’re lookin’ for something good or you’re finding something bad.” (10:49)

5. The Risks and Costs of Political Outspokenness

• Vic has lost deals and opportunities because of his outspokenness—especially on issues like Palestine (11:55-13:34).
  • “I felt like I was muzzling myself in pursuit of success or certain deals… And I also felt pretty empty when trying to be silent, you know, trying to be muzzled.” (12:08)
  • He draws a line between responsibility as an artist and personal authenticity.
• Finding a sustainable way to speak out:
  • “What you say is not always even as important as how you say it and when you say it, like timing and presentation.” (13:37 - Vic Mensa)

6. Necessity Driving Innovation & Direct-to-Consumer Art

• When traditional support dried up, Vic leaned into self-distribution, learning the business side out of necessity (14:53–16:58).
  • “The lack of resource and, and support has out of necessity pushed me to, to grow significantly … It also pushed me to...be the producer for a lot of my music...really start to understand the whole supply chain.” (15:13 - Vic Mensa)

7. Early Activism, Palestine, and the Price of Empathy

• Vic narrates his 2017 trip to Palestine with a delegation of Black artists. The firsthand experience of occupation opened his eyes and influenced his advocacy—despite resistance from his management and others (19:01–22:20).
  • “We were there for 10 days…saw the occupation firsthand. Stood on rooftops and watched the worms swimming in Palestinian people’s rationed water...It was just as astounded as I saw friends of mine be in the past two years seeing the genocide on tape on TikTok.” (20:26–21:05 – Vic Mensa)
• The group critiques the U.S.’s complicity and willful ignorance regarding global human rights violations.
• Vic also reflects on how empathy can bridge divides—but acknowledges that real-world divisions and power structures often overwhelm.

8. Personal Growth and Message Delivery

• Conversation on how to engage in activism—anger vs. strategy (25:35–28:13).
  • “Anger is a poison that corrodes things. The vessel, it carries it.” (28:08 – Vic Mensa)
  • Ebro: “Nobody wants to go on an angry journey. They really don’t.” (26:39)

9. Media, Social Division, and Rage-Bait

• Dissection of how political actors and conservative media exploit music/culture events (Bad Bunny, Kid Rock) to provoke outrage and division for political gain (28:39–33:00).
  • “They go to all the community board meetings. They show up at all the elections...The only people having conversations about this shit not working be us. Think about that. Why is that?” (64:36 – Ebro)

10. Chicago Politics & The Opportunity of Representation

• Vic applauds Mayor Brandon Johnson’s authentic connection to the city's real communities (33:52–39:26).
  • “He’s the first mayor that Chicago’s had in my life that represented my interests, that speaks my language.” (33:52 – Vic Mensa)
• Contrasts past mayors’ corruption vs. emerging authentic local leadership.

11. Family, Fatherhood, and Breaking Generational Cycles

• Vic on integrating his family into his creative life and striving for emotional regulation and intentional parenting (41:36–45:45).
  • “I want him [my son] to gain those parts of me and not the worst...trying to be an emotionally regulated version of myself...” (42:48 – Vic Mensa)
  • Describes giving his son daily affirmations to combat inherited worry.

12. Shared Traumas, Intersectional Solidarity, and Indoctrination

• Rosenberg shares his family’s post-Holocaust displacement, leading to nuanced discussion on Jewish identity, Israel, indoctrination, and solidarity with Palestinians (46:00–54:00).
  • Vic: “The nuanced perspective ... is the one that actually makes sense to me as someone who has that history to say, Okay, these are the ways in which my family was impacted by hate and fascism...”
• Unpacks how propaganda conflates anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism (56:58).

13. American Hypocrisy: Critiquing Power Structures

• The group reflects on parallels between US imperialism and Israel, the importance of acknowledging real history, and the dangers of erasing or sanitizing radical leaders or movements (57:15–61:44).
  • “Cointelpro’s so effective. Oh, man, so effective not only at assassinating all those leaders, but at also, like, scrubbing the history.” (61:35 – Vic Mensa)

14. Solidarity vs. Division: The True Enemies

• Warning against turning oppressed groups against each other and losing focus on the real sources of power and oppression:
  • “I wonder how...people can believe that their enemy is the person that’s in the other detention center and not the one owning the detention center.” (63:24 – Vic Mensa)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Vic on authenticity and growth:
  • “Just being authentic, just being real to myself, you know what I mean?” (14:31)
• On rage as a distraction:
  • “They relying on us being upset, on us being in argument … so that they can rob us.” (29:18 – Vic Mensa)
• On political and economic power:
  • “It's the same people. It's the same Geo Group and Corecivic privatized prison companies that are profiting from niggas making Starbucks caps and shit in the prison that are creating ICE detention centers.” (62:26 – Vic Mensa)
• On history and erasure:
  • “We end up at an interesting place when people have forgotten the actual life words and work of these leaders and heroes of black history, but only remember the iconography and then use it as they see fit...” (62:26 – Vic Mensa)
• On parenthood and generational healing:
  • “I'm trying to be intentional to not give that [worry] to him, you know what I mean? Because if I can make that decision, then I need to.” (45:45 – Vic Mensa)
• On intersectional struggles:
  • “You don’t fight racism with racism. You fight it with solidarity.” (61:11 – quoting Fred Hampton)

---

Key Timestamps

• [05:11] – Vic on independent release, direct-to-consumer business.
• [06:25] – Orange tree/viral social media story.
• [08:06] – Hip-hop as education and social change.
• [10:16] – Positive (but cautious) relationship with social media.
• [13:34] – Career frustration, silencing, and loss of deals due to activism.
• [15:13] – Self-reliance through necessity; mastering music business.
• [19:01]–[22:20] – The Palestine trip, awakening, and management pushback.
• [25:35]–[28:13] – Shifting from anger to strategic, sustainable messaging.
• [28:39]–[33:00] – Rage-bait, using culture for political division (Bad Bunny, Kid Rock).
• [33:52]–[39:26] – Chicago mayoral politics, real vs. performative representation.
• [41:36] – Fatherhood, affirmations, and intentional parenting.
• [46:00]–[54:00] – Rosenberg’s family Holocaust story, critiques of Israel, identity, and solidarity.
• [57:15]–[61:44] – U.S. hypocrisy, historical erasure, COINTELPRO.
• [63:24] – The true sources of oppression, warning against scapegoating.

---

Conclusion

This episode stands out for its sincere, wide-ranging conversation that puts both personal struggles and systemic issues under the microscope. Vic Mensa’s journey—through industry pitfalls, political activism, and family—is woven together with sharp observations about our current media landscape, the importance of solidarity, and the ongoing fight for agency and authenticity. The hosts and their guest challenge listeners not only to pay attention, but to act with intention, perspective, and empathy.

---

Transcript

[A]

Just don't call it a podcast.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Okay. Doing something different on a Friday. About to talk that talk.

[C]

Oh, you want to do freedom? You want to talk freedom?

[A]

Freedom Friday. You know what I'm saying? They can't stop this convo. I guess they kind of could because we distributed it on YouTube, so I guess they could, like, what, cancel our page? We don't own these platforms.

[B]

We.

[A]

We own. All we own right now is these microphones, this room, and this light. That's all we got.

[C]

Yeah. Where we're distributed, we don't own.

[A]

But that. Listen, this is a key component. Right. Which we're gonna talk to Vic Menzel about today. Cause he's decided to be more active on social media, which is something he wasn't all the way into before, what, about a year ago, bro. Let's run through some of the people we all genuinely dislike to set the stage today. I love this conference.

[C]

Oh, cool.

[A]

This is good. This is good.

[B]

This is good.

[A]

Who we got? Who we got? Who we got? How you feel about Van Jones, man?

[B]

Coon Jones, Yo.

[C]

I, I, I, I. Van Jones is a special kind of. He's had it so many occasions where he's shown us. Remember tonight, Donald Trump showed us that he's presidential.

[D]

I could not. I cannot.

[C]

That's when it started. It was. That was his first term. He hit a. Tonight, he's. He showed he's presidential.

[B]

Bill Maher can't stand.

[C]

Oh, Bill Maher. No, Bill Maher is in the hall of fame. Bill Maher, you need to. I would like to see you on. Even though I can't stand him. I would love to see you on that show, though.

[A]

Could you do it?

[B]

Yeah, I could do it. I had to on them, though.

[C]

No, I want.

[D]

No, you would have to.

[C]

It's. I can't. The Islamophobia is so crazy.

[A]

Where you at on Don Lemon these days? I.

[B]

With Don Lemon.

[C]

Yeah, he's. We had. We had to talk about this pre show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm gonna go see Don Lemon while I'm free. Don Lemon matter.

[C]

Yo, tell Don Lemon we need to have him on the show. For sure.

[A]

Don Lemon's platform is bigger than us now.

[C]

Yeah. You know, on his show, we gotta.

[A]

Remember we got this new thing popping up. People don't necessarily want to run up.

[C]

No, I. I was telling Vic before, and I. The other audience knows I have. I'm coming back to liking Don Lemon. I still.

[A]

He thinks he's a pompous elitist.

[C]

Well, I was still. I'm still Stuck on the Ferguson protest from it smell. I smell marijuana in the air. I was always, like, a little put off by him. But listen, we. People come to the team. When people come to the team and start, you know, really getting behind the right issues.

[A]

Well, let's not call it a team. Let's just say. Let's just say depending on what's going on in society, you may align with people you didn't align before.

[B]

That's fair enough.

[C]

How about your team? I don't like team. That's a bad word. Mindset. Positive mindset. He has a positive mindset, and he's.

[B]

Been doing some valuable journalism.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

In Chicago, after ICE repelled out the helicopters, he was on the block talking to people like, he was one of the first, firsthand accounts that I saw of the people that were being pulled out of their homes in the nude by ice.

[C]

Like, no, he's doing good. He is. He is doing good work. He's doing.

[B]

I was like, damn, Don Lemon, where are you at? 67th Street?

[A]

Where? Do you have any on that note? Because, you know, there I definitely see people who supported this latest regime of Donald Trump's who are black and wanted to act like the illegal immigrant conversation was only going to apply to people who look like they were from Central America or fit some sort of, you know, narrative that they look Mexican or something. Even though there's black people in all of those countries as well. Where are those individual. Do you, do you have any individuals like that in your circle or in your, you know, friend group that were, like, supportive of MAGA and was like, yo, get these immigrants out of here type? Nah.

[D]

Supporting of MAGA may be too far right.

[A]

Let's go. Supporting of Trump, not thinking Trump was too bad.

[B]

I had. I had about two people who seem like they was either on the fence or, or trumping, and, you know, it just ain't lasted. You know what I'm saying? It's. It's kind of become a hard. A hard line.

[D]

Obviously, your friendship didn't last or their, Their, Their viewpoint.

[B]

I don't even want a nigga telling me about some Trump shit in a favorable light. You know, that's going to end the relationship fast.

[A]

Fact.

[B]

So if I knew a Trumper, they just didn't say nothing to me about it, you know? But there's a lot of conservative bent in the black community as well, though, a deep conservative bent in the black community. And I definitely have friends whose parents are in support of Trump or maga. I don't know where they're at right now, but also in Chicago.

[A]

And racism, white supremacy, or any of that alignment, or the realization that looks all Republicans aren't racist, but all races support Donald Trump. Like, that's not enough for them to be like, I don't need to be on that side.

[B]

People be hating they self, man. People be deeply self hating. You know what I'm saying? And miseducated and consuming red pill content just like ideologically confused all at once.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

All right, let's come back around to all. We're going to come back around to everything. We got to talk some Vic Mensa too, though.

[A]

Now, Vic, you. You have had a successful pivot, not only putting your music out direct to consumer, no label, all that. I love that whole last release with the vinyl and appreciate that and thank.

[B]

You for supporting it.

[A]

Of course, man.

[B]

My first purchase.

[C]

For real, Literally.

[A]

That was your first.

[B]

I mean, you bought everything. No, you, bro. Bought the. Yeah, vinyl.

[C]

Oh, man, I'm behind too. I haven't even bought the merch. Look at me.

[B]

Whatever, you know.

[C]

Yo, that's dope.

[A]

Well, and the art, I mean, the artwork on, it's amazing. Obviously what it stands for. What you're talking about in the record is beautiful. Thank you. And, and just, you know, the, the, I guess the, the embracing of your heritage, both being from Chicago, being a mixed kid and being Ghanaian, like, packing all of that into how you express yourself. Amazing.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

But we didn't get a motherfucking orange today. How do you not show up to interviews with a bag like, he's got an orange. What are we even doing?

[C]

The oranges from the tree, he's got an orange.

[A]

So.

[C]

So I was asking you off the air, though, was the orange thing a random thing? Cause you are officially on fire on social media. Like, you hit everybody's algorithm now. And it's great content and it's not often that thoughtful. Good content cuts through the algorithm. Right. So did this happen organically? No pun intended?

[B]

Yes, it's in my backyard. But I more specifically told myself about a year ago I was gonna take part in social media. I never really took part. You know, I always would come and I would speak to you guys. We speak about, you know, so many things of weight. And people would be like, oh, I love your interviews. I watch them all the time. You know what I mean? But I never took part in the social media arena, in the experiment. You know what I mean? And so I told myself about a year ago, I was like, man, I'm gonna take part. I'M gonna just see what works. I'm gonna try things, speak about different things, you know what I mean? Speak about my mental health, speak about stupid funny stories, speak about African history. And. And the orange tree thing just work. It's just in my backyard.

[D]

And it's like you were just like, I'm gonna plot my phone right there and I'm just gonna go for it.

[B]

No, actually, the first time I did it, I had somebody shooting it. Most of the time I shoot it myself, though.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's also taught me, like, experiments in filmmaking. You know, I mean, I've been learning use of light and color correction and kind of bringing together worlds that I've already been inside of. Like, I've been acting for a few years now, obviously been like a student. And hip hop, to me is educational in its, like, root form, the form that I fell in love with, you know, saying. And when I think about, like, KRS1 was my favorite MC growing up. KRS1 was literally the teacher.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Right?

[B]

I. I listen to KRS and I would make parallels between things that I didn't get before. Because he made it succinct, cultural, linguistic. Overseer, officer, obviously. Overseer, officer, officer, yeah. You know, like, that just. I could sense.

[A]

Or even.

[B]

Or even Nas. You know, I think about Nas, Lupe. Lupe teaching me about conflict diamonds and Sierra Leone and then. And then Kanye stepping into that. Or come and teach me about Assada Shakur. Like, hip hop has always been, like, the knowledge has been a core tenet, a pillar of hip hop. And may not be right now, you know, commercially, but I still believe in its DNA that that's hip hop. So even what I'm doing right now is hip hop.

[C]

It is just giving gems that you've.

[A]

Drop a gem on.

[C]

But it is crazy. There's a couple things that are interesting. Number one, you mentioned the film part, and it is very, like, visually pleasing. Pause. But like. Cause pause. Cause my man's wearing a belly shirt jersey half the time.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yo, Ebro is the reason why when I actually put the jersey out, I made it longer because I had it on.

[A]

I'm on one of them jerseys, but.

[C]

I'm not doing the belly. The 80s, the 80s, locker room vibe.

[B]

I can't do it. I made it longer. Cause that was with Ebro. And he was like, yo, man, yo, what's that jersey, yo? Like, I want one, you know what I'm saying? But like, the crop joints not going.

[D]

To Work for me if I walked in with a crop.

[B]

That's why now it's regular leg. Now it's regular. It's no longer cropped, but they sell.

[A]

And by the way, they sell out as soon as you put them up. Right?

[B]

Like, yeah, for sure.

[C]

That's so. So not only the videos look good, like the lights, dope, the. The orange tree, it looks. It's just satisfying. It's kind of a satisfying watch. But you also are doing this crazy thing, which is. It seems as if social media is like positively impacting your life, which is a rare thing. Which is so rare, bro. Like, you're like, you seem. You haven't changed as an artist. This is always the guy you've been in many ways as an artist, the way you espouse the views you hold, just like you mentioned in our interviews. But now you're able to do it on social media, and I feel like it's actually feeding your brand. I just commend you. That is a unique thing to happen because most people have a very toxic relationship with social media. And yours seems really good from the outside.

[B]

You know, it's complex. It definitely is good, though. You know what I'm saying? I think that it's helping me to express who I am. Like I said, you guys would give me a floor oftentimes to have conversations that I couldn't really have in many places, you know, and social media and the way I'm using it now has given me a space to do that through my own channel, you know, I mean, so I do think that it's been a positive force in my life. And. And at the same time, obviously, it's still, you know, it's social media. It's time.

[C]

So you still look in comment. You still have the moments of like, comments or.

[B]

I stay away from it. I don't read. I try not to read it, you know, I mean, I try not to read too much of the comments because it could be. It's like Tom and Jerry. It's like a cat and mouse game. Like, either you're looking for something good or you're finding something bad. You know, vice versa.

[A]

But. But I think the reason you're having a positive experience with social media is honestly. Cause you're growing up as yourself.

[B]

Word.

[A]

And I think when you were, and I know you pretty well, I think from the many conversations and the ups and downs you've been in your career and the trouble you've been in, in your career and in real life, you've done it all. But I think you were. I think you were trying to find your center. I think that's where. I don't know if you want to expound on some of the. The past turmoil, but it seems like you found your center. You're grounded in it. You love what you have, you love your family, you love the world you've created and you showing up as yourself. And when you can do that and unapologetically and pay your bills, doing so, I think that's. You can be happy, for sure.

[B]

No, that's blessed. I mean, I had some years, even preceding this past year, when the general sentiment amongst the people working with me was like, yo, don't stir the pot, you know, I mean, don't speak on politics. Like, just don't, you know, and genocide is happening in Palestine and Trump's coming into power and chaos throughout the world. And I'm trying to. I'm like, you know, I felt like I was muzzling myself in pursuit of success or certain deals, because I've seen those deals evaporate, you know, based on something I said on social media or in an interview or being in Palestine. I've seen many a deal, you know what I mean, just fade into the wind. And. And I also felt pretty empty when trying to be silent, you know, trying to be muzzled. Because, I mean, I think if you know better, you do better, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't look to everyday artists to be fucking the spokesman for the ills of society and capitalism, because maybe that's just not their bag, you know, But I've studied these things a lot and have always been this person. So I feel like I also have a responsibility and a duty to share my perspective, and trying not to was a lot harder for me.

[A]

And you feel like that's where the frustration came in. As you were.

[B]

Yeah, that was a real frustration. But like you said, it's a reaction to having both, like, seen success and tanked it through being too honest, but also tied up in my own insecurities, of course, but, you know, really telling truths that people just didn't want to hear at all. And wasn't the right time, the right moment or the right delivery, you know, I did learn. I feel like what you say is not always even as important as how you say it and when you say it, like timing and presentation, you know, and so I'm working on all those things and trying to be informed by the missteps in how I communicate. But at the same time, like you said, Just being authentic, just being real to myself, you know what I mean?

[D]

At what point did you feel like, okay, I am going to take social media and I'm just gonna speak my mind directly, unapologetically. Like you talked about it in interviews, your points of view, but at what point were you like, they're going to hear it from me directly? What was it that made you, what, what, what clicked in your head that made you make that decision?

[B]

That was about a year ago. And I didn't have no distribution and didn't really have a pathway to release my album. I've been having this album before I started doing this, before I did the direct to consumer project, and I didn't have the money to pay for it, you know, didn't have a label partner or distribution partner.

[C]

The music was done, though. Pretty much done.

[B]

I mean, it's, you know, been pretty much done and I guess kind of, yeah, out of necessity. I always had a feeling that were I to communicate the conversations that Ebro and I have, you know, for example, just off air, if I was to communicate those things through my own social media, that I think it would bring people in because they're, they're conversations of content and of substance, you know what I mean? And the things we talk about on this show, I always thought it would bring people in, but it was one of those things that every year I was like, oh man, I'm gonna do that next year, you know, okay, next year. All right. I didn't get to that this year, you know, I'm gonna do it next year. Kept being procrastinated and as I'm sitting there without this, just without distribution, I'm like, okay, well this, this is the right time to do the thing that you've been kind of afraid to do. And saying that you would do year in and year out and low key. The lack of resource and, and support has out of necessity pushed me to, to grow significantly. You know what I mean? Like, not having that outlet for the music pushed me to create this other lane and this other avenue. It also pushed me to like, be the producer for a lot of my music. It pushed me to do the direct to consumer project, which has helped me to understand like fan engagement, create data capture funnels, work on merch production, and like, really start to understand the whole supply chain.

[C]

And it's made you a businessman.

[B]

Yeah, it's made me figure a lot of things out because I didn't have the, the structure.

[C]

Well, you were the exact opposite of this. I mean, to. When Your origin story in hip hop post being a part of kids these days, when you. The Vic Mensa solo story, you're talking about Roc Nation, Scooter Braun, big management, big companies. It was the exact kind of opposite of what you are right now. No.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

In ways like you're expected to kind of not do very much.

[B]

Not do much. Yeah. And then you just don't gain the information. Then you just don't learn how to actually do your business.

[C]

And then of course it didn't work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It didn't work.

[C]

And that you. Other people are trying to find a way to make money off of you. But even I'm not saying none of them had care for your, you know, personal well being. But it's not aligned with what your vision is. And now you are doing all the business and it's obviously aligned with your vision.

[B]

I don't think a lot of those relationships were antithetical to who I am too. And so I would go and I would do things and say things that I do when I say now. And this shit would crash and burn and I wouldn't all the way understand why, you know. Cause I was 22 or 23 and I didn't know how the Epstein files were gonna shape out.

[A]

You didn't know that back then?

[B]

No.

[A]

You didn't have that foresight.

[B]

I didn't really understand.

[A]

You didn't have unredacted in your.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? The whole like web of, you know, connectivity of corporate, you know, I just didn't understand that.

[C]

Do you ever laugh at the irony at any point that of all people, Scooter was your manager. And I know you guys discussed at some point your differences.

[B]

I also want to lay clear that I was not making that connection exactly.

[C]

Oh no, no, I know, I know, but I'm referring more to the. To the, to the Palestine stuff. Yeah, no, which I know you guys got into it before.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I didn't know about Palestine. I didn't know really the difference between Palestine.

[A]

Well, for the audience, Vic went to Palestine in 2017. 18, before the pandemic.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You and a few artists, actually.

[B]

Yeah. Aja Monet, she took me down there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My Hill was there too.

[A]

Aaron Allen Kane.

[B]

Aaron Allen Kane was there.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Did you have to have three names to go on the trip? And what's your middle name?

[B]

Quesi Mentos.

[D]

Okay, so wait, a group of you just decided. Tell me how that came together.

[C]

We did just. It's a long time, but we Did a whole breakdown of it afterwards. He came on our show, but it was dumb, long ago.

[B]

And then I just remember, yeah, Aja Monet is my big sister. Used to live in Chicago for a short period of time. She's ill poet and just brilliant mind. Recently got nominated for the Grammy for her spoken word album. When the Poems do what they Do, Always gotta shout her out. So she took me down there and it was this delegation of black artists, poets, activists that included Mark Lamont and Aaron Allen Cain. And we were there for 10 days. I was there. You know, we traveled all through the west bank, through, like, old city of Jerusalem, through Ramallah, Bethlehem refugee camps, and saw firsthand what the fuck is going on, you know what I mean? We saw the occupation firsthand. We spoke to the people firsthand who were being impacted by the occupations, stood on rooftops and watched the worms swimming in Palestinian people's rationed water. Stared across the wall into rolling green pastures and Olympic swimming pools. You know, just saw it firsthand. The apartheid saw the apartheid firsthand. And I was just shocked, you know what I mean? I'm 23. I didn't know about Palestine. I didn't know Palestine from Pakistan a year before that, to be honest. And so I'm like, yo, the world must know about this. I start. I'm all on my. On my stories, completely innocently, these kids being dragged down the street, you know, like real videos, like real graphic shit, right? And, you know, my. My management team at the time was like, you mean, like, stop the tape here. Like, yo, what are you doing, fam?

[A]

Right?

[B]

And I'm like, oh, I'm doing what. What should be done, right? And, yeah, did you know? Did you know about this? You know, like, does anybody know about this? I was just as astounded as I saw friends of mine be in the past two years seeing the genocide on tape on TikTok and being just, like, blown away, like, yo, this is happening today. This is something that people are okay with, but it's actually been happening, you know, hasn't been as potent and as accelerated as this right now.

[A]

Well, and then the. For many, not all, but for many, the idea that as the United States of America, which claims to be this beacon of human rights, that we are part of the funding of this behavior. The funding, right? You know what I mean?

[C]

It's basically us.

[A]

It's basically us and not doing anything about it. Matter of fact, helping hide it or helping try to make it look like there's nothing to see here. Everybody keep moving and Just move along. There's nothing to see here. I think that also is very shocking when you realize it. Like, wait a minute. People do know and have known and.

[B]

Have funded, and they don't want the general public to know.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

That was what blew my mind, was like, oh, this is like a concerted effort.

[C]

So did you and. Did you and Scooter ever have like a come to Jesus on this topic?

[B]

We did have a conversation about it, man, and it wasn't this current political moment. So between myself and Scooter, between myself and my therapist even at the time, it's like a Jewish dude who I, you know, loved very much, helped me so much to, like, overcome drug addiction and, you know, me stay alive through suicide and all this type of those relationships. We had these conversations and those relationships at the time, they. They survived, you know, they subsisted. And I saw it as being an example of, like, the power of empathy, humanity, like love between people of different viewpoints. But ultimately, you know, the world is a little more complicated than that. And now in particular. And they crumbled, you know, in time. So that wasn't. That was like the straw that broke the camel's back. I think that actually, although that was the mound of straws that the straw that broke the camel's back was eventually placed on top of, you know, with some of the relationships, like the thing that actually maybe took it over the edge with some things I said about police, you know, and this was before ACAB was like the General 2016. And now I don't even know what people say about cops these days. I feel like there's a general acceptance among people to the left. They're like, yo, the cops are full of shit entirely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Defund. This was like, before a defund the police was even a. A conversation, you know, I mean, but I was, like, at the same time coming into that consciousness, and I tell people all the time, man, like, coming into, like, a revolutionary consciousness or just an understanding of the world as it really is as a young man. Plus, testosterone is like a wild combination, you know? I mean, it makes you turn, you know, and you just want to tell every truth as loud as possible. And isn't it good, though, that you.

[C]

At that time, as you were discovering all these things, that you weren't a big social media person yet, like, really active because you were able to do a lot of learning and really get to a point where now when you deliver a message, it's based in so much information and experience.

[B]

Right, Right.

[C]

Cause we got a lot of people who are vocal, like what you just said of, like, I didn't know the difference between Palestine and Pakistan a year before that. People are super loud and active about stuff and would never have that admission.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I gotta be honest. Three months ago, I didn't even know this was going on.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But now I'm out here posting and you should, you should know that everything I say is coming with the facts.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right.

[C]

So I just think it's sort of a blessing that it's. And now it's landed you in this spot where I know it's a really generic thing to say, you catch more bees with honey. It makes the deliverer of the message sound soft. Your messages are not soft at all, but your delivery of the message is way more pleasant than a lot of message delivery is on social media. And I think it is more impactful as a result.

[B]

Oh, it definitely helps. Yeah, well.

[A]

Cause you're not angry anymore?

[C]

You're not screaming at the kid?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[A]

I was very angry. Well. Cause I. I lived that. I lived. I was. I was 16, 17. Right. Like, I was. My mom was angry when it's A.K. rabin got killed. You know what I mean? Like, that's a story I tell all the time, that my mom was like, netanyahu's a devil. Israel is lied. This is a lie. Like, my mom was on that in, you know, in the 90s. So. And then that's in your house. And then my dad is on the type of time that he's been on. So then you're like 17, 18, 19, and you're listening to the records. You listen to. You listen to krs. You grew up on pe. You've seen all of this, people going to jail, police brutality and all that stuff. And you have to rationalize and understand, like, am I going to go out here and also be angry, or am I going to navigate this in a way where I could bring people actually along on a journey with them? And we can make this a space where people want to come on the journey because nobody wants to go on an angry journey. They really don't.

[D]

But people are open to learn, but.

[A]

They're open to learn, but they don't want to hang out with you when everybody. Everything's mad.

[B]

We.

[A]

So we're going to be mad all the time.

[C]

No. There are certain people out there who are big in the alcohol algorithm, and I. I will end up getting. They hit me. I will agree with them and think I don't want to Watch this. Like you're screaming at me. I don't want to be. We all know it's bad out here. Like, it's bad out here. I don't need it to be bad when in my phone too. So I do think there's something to be said for delivering the message in a way that's thoughtful, passionate, radical ideas.

[A]

And I'm not saying there's not a time to be angry. It can't be seven. Not saying that. But we gotta. We gotta. We gotta keep our energy locked and loaded for when it's time.

[C]

Pick the spots.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta keep your energy locked and loaded. Otherwise it just becomes wallpaper. And then people do stop listening because it's like. So we're yelling every day. We're yelling all the time.

[C]

Even though it is. We're living in a world that is worthy of yelling every day. I don't want to say it's not.

[D]

But you get rage, bait, fatigue.

[C]

You do now. I've seen.

[D]

Definitely do. It comes a time, like, all of us are well informed and connected. And there's times where I can't. Like, my brain can't. I can't watch another video of, like, kids getting hauled off, ripped away from their families because. And I see Ice just beating people up sometimes for my mental health, I have to. And that's my privilege. Just scroll. Because I can't do it right now in this moment.

[C]

Right. I need. I need a moment to pace myself, take care of my baby so I can live life, come back and be effective the next day.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Anger is a poison that corrodes things. The vessel, it carries it. You know, it just.

[A]

Well, so. And so when you. When you sitting at the table, right? When you're sitting at the table and you got all the chips right, like the. The current elites do right now. They got all the chips. They not mad. They got us mad. And so we're mad, wasting all our energy being mad. And they got all the chips.

[B]

Well, that's what they relying on.

[A]

Us being mad and unfocused.

[B]

That's low key. One of the most pivotal. Epstein fo Lyles. Was Epstein talking to Peter Thiel?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And he's celebrating Brexit.

[C]

He's like, oh, that's got him beginning.

[B]

And Peter Thiel says, the beginning of what? Epstein says a return to tribalism, the end of globalization. It's easier to buy something on its way to collapse than it is to find the next bargain. So you gotta know they trying to Keep relying on us, being upset, on us being in argument with one another, in hatred of one another, in fighting constantly in dispute so that they can rob us.

[C]

Yo, look at the bad bunny thing. This week is a perfect example.

[B]

Word.

[C]

We can just roll. We can just roll out a Super bowl performer and it will split people into screaming at each other all night.

[A]

How about this? He wasn't even on that type of time.

[C]

I know.

[A]

He went out there to party and celebrate his community and up and bring people together. And as soon as that thing was done, Donald Trump's first words out his mouth was to attack it.

[D]

That Jeff was ready.

[A]

Yo, he had to be ready. That's a scam, bro. It's such a scam. They scam.

[C]

It's such a scamming. You realize how. How truthful it would have been if he. If his tweet had been. I gotta be honest, it actually wasn't so bad. I might learn a little Spanish. Like, the truth is, people watch that, you know, they weren't offended by it. You know, in their gut, they were not actually offended by anything that happened.

[A]

Unless they're a white supremacist racist.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Unless you're a Nazi. Unless you. But even then, I don't want to see.

[C]

Yeah, I'm not going like people.

[B]

And you had to just go watch Kid Rock.

[C]

Exactly. I thought you had your way to not be.

[A]

This is how twisted it is. They are speaking a European language.

[B]

Kid Rock. And the other dude was rapping the, I don't know, Morgan Wallen looking nigger.

[C]

Yes, rapping.

[B]

Here's the funniest part to me is that even in their attempts at silencing people of color, they still use our mediums. Like, they can't even put down our paintbrush. Them niggas was up there at the TP USA joint rapping about being racist. Like they was rapping about T Pusa, their toilet paper USA experience. Like, literally rapping about it. Like, Kid Rock is up there a rapping fool.

[A]

And his whole existence is based on our stuff. His whole existence. No one knows you without hip hop.

[B]

I don't.

[C]

I really do one day need to under. He. He may be a study in a lot of big hits.

[B]

I heard he was Canadian.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I don't think so. Well, I don't know. He could be from Windsor or something. He's from Detroit, but he was. We're talking about, you know, battle. DJ battle, rap battle. Everything was rap connected for a long time.

[B]

Classic playbook, though. I know that's that classic Use the black fishing like fishing rod to get into general consciousness. Like, attach myself to this wave. Ride it until I'm ready to go country on af.

[C]

Yeah, he was the ultimate example.

[B]

He might have kicked it off. No, I think he might be the.

[A]

Might be.

[B]

He might be the architect. I gotta give Kid Rock more credit for being the architect of.

[A]

At least he fathered some of the black fishermen.

[B]

Blackface rapper turned country singer. You know me. And he went, put that in the game.

[C]

He went hip hop to like a weird metal Y kind of thing, then eased his way into the little country twang sample. Lynyrd Skynyrd. They took the. Took the Sweet Home Alabama riff, full on country. And then I remember the quote where I went. Because I used to like a couple of kid records as guilty pleasures. I had like two real guilty pleasures. Also shut the up all summer long and. And picture with Cheryl Crow. Two guilty pleasures.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Okay, that was hot.

[C]

That was not hot for a second.

[A]

I don't remember it.

[C]

That was big.

[A]

I probably know it if I heard it.

[C]

It was a guilt. It was a legitimate. I like this song. I don't want to know. I like this song. In the early 2000s, the moment I knew was there like eight, nine years ago. He was like, I don't like chicks like Beyonce. I like chicks who look like. Blah, blah, blah.

[D]

All right.

[C]

I went, oh, this is where we're going.

[B]

I regret to inform you, Kid Rock, Beyonce is out of your league, my nigga. Like, it does not matter. It doesn't matter. You like chicks like Beyonce.

[D]

As if anyone like Beyonce would give a second.

[B]

I like chicks like Beyonce to shoot a bag, my nigga, Yo.

[A]

It's a wild. It's a wild time. It's a wild time. The Chicago mayor seems to be very. Doing very well. What is your feedback for us?

[B]

You.

[A]

I mean, you're in Chicago.

[B]

You.

[A]

You don't live. Do you still live in Chicago or you just part time?

[C]

But I'd be interested in Orange street like that in February in Chicago?

[A]

Well, no, I thought, I know he has a place.

[B]

Yeah, I'll be back.

[A]

But I didn't know where he spent most of the day. My only bounce out to the Orange Tree for the. Y' all know what he's doing. That might be one weekend of content and then he goes on back.

[C]

Orange tree weekend.

[A]

Shot 40 videos one weekend.

[B]

Chicago mayor Brandon Johnson is dope, man. I mean, I love Brandon Johnson. He's the first mayor that Chicago's had in my life that represented my Interests that speaks my language, you know what I mean? That I can relate to, that relates to the people that I've grown up with, the Chicago that I know. I do think he's found his stride in terms of his messaging. Like he's, he's really started to become very poignant and very brilliant with his delivery. And I do think it's really reaching audiences nationally and people are, are impressed with his, with his intellect and with his leadership. And at the same time, you know, Chicago is a, is a tough crowd, man. You know, so he, he's got his work cut out for him. But above all, we coming from Rahm Emanuel, man, we coming from like a mayor that literally sold our parking meters to like multinational.

[A]

You guys know that story, right?

[C]

And then they, I, I don't know that specific one.

[A]

So the parking meters in Chicago, the money made on those meters do not go to the city of Chicago.

[C]

He made a deal for them.

[B]

Yeah. And he took a cut. He made a deal for a little, for a couple bucks, you know what I mean? Maybe like 10 million. He made a little deal to some multinational billionaires from somewhere else and it's a hundred year lease or some shit like that. He took his little bread and they turned around and sold it for like 10x the next year. You know what I mean? It's like classic Chicago corruption. When I came into, man, maybe it was high school kids these days, I knew Rahm Emanuel was, was phony as fuck because Rahm Emanuel wanted us to be performing at his, you know, his concerts and shit like that. And I remember going to perform at this city concert with the band in high school. And Ron was like all on our dick. And he's like, yo, this is my, this is my favorite group. My favorite group are coming to perform. What's you guys name again?

[C]

He didn't do that.

[B]

He did.

[C]

He was one of those.

[B]

He did. And I was like this, I didn't know everything. Kids those days, I didn't know everything he was up to, but I knew he was a phony, you know. And then on the other, on the other side, Brandon Johnson, when he was so my man is part of the teachers union, you know, one of my guys that I came up with who was an organizer even back then and organized a big walk out of school when they mass fired a bunch of teachers and were closing schools. And that was probably all of our first like political action organized by my man Yayo. And so Brandon Johnson comes from the teachers union. Yayo is a teacher. When Brandon Johnson was campaigning. I met up with him and I suggested that he come to meet the homegirl, Inglewood Barbie, who does a lot of work with, like, the unhoused community. And she's, like, selfless and dedicates herself to that. And it was cold as shit. It was like now in Chicago.

[A]

And she out there delivering food, out.

[B]

There constantly staying, having a party at night, you know what I mean? Like, Club 51 is what she calls it. Playing music, feeding the people, like, sleeping out there. And I told Brandon Johnson, I was like, yo, this is what I think you should do. I think you should come out here, you know, in the cold, and be with the people that are actually helping, like the most common denominator, Chicagoans. And I didn't think he was gonna come at all. Cause who would do that, you know? Like, my homies wouldn't come do that. You know what I'm saying?

[D]

Right, right, right, right.

[B]

And when Brandon Johnson did come in the middle of the winter, dead of winter, to be with Inglewood Barbie and the unhoused people, I thought that that was indicative of his character. You know, I don't know everything that happened after that, but I do know that that moment, to me, spoke to a larger sentiment of him being different from an average politician, you know what I mean? And. And so I'm glad to have him. You know, I mean, I think that, like, we've had such trash representation. I mean, we had Lori. I want to say Lori Harvey. That's not her name.

[C]

No, because that would be fire. Chicago would have been on fire.

[B]

We had Lori Harvey.

[C]

As would have been something.

[A]

It would have been lit. It would at least look good.

[B]

It would look good.

[A]

We don't know.

[C]

I mean, Rock wouldn't be into it, but you know what I mean? The rest of us might.

[B]

Lori Lightfoot with those suits. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? With this haircut, with the damn suit.

[A]

Nah, don't trash that haircut.

[C]

Nice. Been bad for Chicago.

[B]

Yeah, it's been real, real bad. Slim Pickens, you know what I mean? And there's not going to be so many opportunities, you know, to have representation that actually understands your life experience as like a working class Chicago person or even just a person of color, you know what I'm saying? Like, they ain't gonna give you too many shots. So I'm glad that, you know, we got this one.

[A]

There it is. Vic Mentor. So people can still buy the last Direct to Consumer Project.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you could buy that. You could just buy it on my Website now, if you just go to vicminsa.com, it's like in the merch store.

[A]

And, and. And a lot of the stuff that you wear when you picking oranges off the orange tree and dropping knowledge, it'd be for sale. All that's for sale?

[B]

Yeah, it'd be for sale.

[A]

Now, I had a. You know, I had to hit him in the DMs, like, Yo, bro, you gotta pick from a different spot on the orange tree. Cause it can't be that many oranges in the same spot on the orange tree, right? Just grow back.

[C]

The moment I pick them, it's like, no, it's crazy. They're on fire now.

[A]

But listen, and, and. And your. Your. Your. Your family and, and your father. I don't know very. I don't. You've shown your family or. You guys did a photo shoot together?

[B]

Yeah, we did. I had them modeling. My mom and my dad were modeling. Selling the merch.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, even your. Your kid and your. Your lady, y' all did a photo shoot too?

[B]

Yeah, we be taking pictures. And.

[A]

Yeah, like, you really on some family.

[B]

Man, it gotta be.

[A]

No have to be, but it's. I wanted to applaud you.

[B]

I appreciate it, because I think that's beautiful. No, for sure. I mean, it's definitely the most important thing to me. You know what I'm saying? I think I'm new as a father, so I'm still learning how to balance rigorous work and ambition, you know what I mean, with being a father and a family man. But I think in time, I'm learning more and lucky to have my lady who's just like a wonderful mother and a wonderful partner. Very supportive of me. I mean, she even styled this thing. I did, like, I shot a short film. It kind of turns out the Orange Tree into like my more narrative scripted tv. I love that ambitions. And she styled it the other day, you know what I'm saying? And. And my mom and dad were in it. I'm saying they acted in it. They flew in town, acted in it.

[C]

I gotta watch this.

[B]

It's not out yet.

[C]

No, you didn't put it out yet. Okay. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I'm still editing it. I just shot it.

[D]

Oh, I'm excited about it.

[A]

How much. How much does all of that family being around, being supportive at this stage, how much has that also helped you feel? Grounded, focused, happy, fulfilled? Has to be a lot.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's number one, you know, in my prayers. It's like I pray for my son and My girl and my mother and my father, like, and my sisters, first. First of all, like, it's the most important thing. And I was already a lot more focused, but I think that crystallized it, like, locked it in for me. Like, I'm okay. I'm fully focused. Like, I don't really have the time, space, energy, or necessity for anything frivolous. Like, anything outside of what I got to be doing. You know, it's like, I'm not getting into drama, I'm not getting into beef. I'm not going to the club. I'm not, you know, I mean, doing a lot of things that are liabilities. Yeah, Right. You know me, like.

[D]

And then on top of that, being a parent is wild, right?

[B]

Yes.

[D]

You're in charge of this human. You're going to shape this human. Everything that you do is going to affect this human. We both have one. Ibrah has two. But sometimes I look at my child and I'm like, oh, my God, like, I made you and I'm in charge.

[C]

I still. I still. I mean, she's only a year, but I still. I have those moments. I'm like, man, every reaction I have, everything that I encourage or discourage, all of the things that I deal with that I don't want her to deal with.

[B]

Yeah, I think about that a lot, man. It's just like trying to be an emotionally regulated version of myself. Trying to be the best me, especially in the presence of my child, because I want him to gain those parts of me and not the worst. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want him to be influenced by my shortcomings. And so that means I have to be hard at work and overcoming those shortcomings or at least like, transforming them. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Not giving them no fear, you know, not giving them anger. I can't be angry all the time. Cause, like, I can't be having my child see that.

[C]

No. Cause we do take, so. And the funny thing is, we don't know what our kid's gonna take from us. Like, there's stuff I took from my dad I'm glad I took for sure. There's other stuff I took that I'm like, dad, you could have kept that. We didn't both need to have that trait. That's the same thing that held you back is holding me back.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, that's real life. I think about that. Exactly, man. Like, worry. You know what I'm saying? Worry is something I consider a lot because my father being Immigrant father from Ghana and from a pretty abject poverty in Ghana. Then coming here, having his family in Chicago, I think he held on to a lot of anxieties of like what he felt like he had escaped, you know, and worried about even teaching us his own language and worried if I was going to get killed by the police because I'm always getting arrested and worried if I would do well in school and worry and worry. And obviously having my father as this incredibly educated and brilliant and dedicated dad, huge privilege. Not everybody has that. Most people don't have that actually, at least in my life and experience. So the primary thing I take away from my father is privilege to have had him in my life and to have him in my life. But also he's a worry wart, you know what I mean? So I got a lot of that, you know what I mean? Because it was always like, man, you gonna be okay? And you know, and so I think about that as I spend time with my son, like to intentionally like with my son, every morning I wake him up with affirmations like, I'm powerful beyond measure and I attract exactly what I need because I expect nothing less. Just statements of faith and power to counteract the. I know that I got worry inside of me, you know, I mean, it's been passed down to me, but I'm. I'm trying to be intentional to not give that to him, you know what I mean? Because if I can make that decision, then I need to, you know.

[C]

Yeah, I can't imagine not having worry like that. You know, the. The child of a mom who was born in a displaced person's camp after the Holocaust. It's so built like that sort of trauma is so built baked in.

[B]

You tell me about that.

[C]

I don't know. That comes up from.

[B]

Your mom was born in a displacement.

[A]

Can you tell him or did you not that.

[B]

Can you.

[C]

Oh, can I short. Oh, sorry, I thought you said.

[B]

Did you.

[C]

Yeah. My mom was born in a DP camp. So after. After the Holocaust, after the US showed up or whatever and started to get things together, people were sent to different places and my. My grandparents had been on the move for like 8, 9, even whatever it was in from Poland. So they had. They had gone different directions. They ended up. My grandfather ended up so far east, he was like in Russia doing like slave labor basically. And they just kind of kept moving. It's my grandparents story is really nuts. And literally every place they'd go, they would just be asking, hey, do you. Have you seen so. And so when they'd meet other polls, you know, they'd say, hey, do you know so and so you so and so. And because they'd only been dating. They'd been dating for a couple of years, and then their families bounced. So when their families bounced, they were from the same town, but when their families ran, they. They obviously were separated. So they just kept in contact through that. And then somehow, eventually, that game of telephone worked, and they found each other towards the end, and they ended up in the same. They ended up together. And then they were put into a displaced persons camp, which is where a lot of people post Holocaust went because your homes were gone because the Nazis had taken Poland. So they ended up in this camp. And my mom was born there.

[B]

Damn.

[C]

Because I guess you. So I guess I need to ask my mom the specifics. But, yeah, I guess you were there for a minute, because they got married there. They got married there. They had a baby there. Like, they were in the camp for a couple of years.

[D]

Your mom grew up there?

[C]

No, no. Till she was two.

[D]

Two. Okay.

[C]

Yeah. And then. Yeah, that's.

[B]

That's.

[C]

That's more than Maya is now. No, listen, I spent the last 13 months working on my baby. That was all in a displaced person's camp.

[B]

That's crazy.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And then. And then they ended up in getting to come to the U.S. i don't.

[A]

Get you to stop complaining about your new apartment. How about that?

[C]

Will it. I mean, it should get me to stop complaining about my new apartment. Will it? Listen, my parents, my grandparents worked very hard so I could complain about my apartment just a couple of generations later.

[B]

I. See. I didn't know that, but it makes a lot of sense to me because the fearless perspective that you've taken in support of the Palestinian people and also the nuanced perspective that you've taken in that entire conversation is the one that actually makes sense to me as somebody who has that history to say, okay, these are the ways in which my family was impacted by, like, hate and fascism and that.

[C]

Well, that's why it's so hurtful. That's why. So for my mom, it's like, I. And she's the exact same as me. I can't imagine what it feels like for her to now see this place that they had seen as a place of refuge.

[A]

And, you know, you're talking about the United States or Israel.

[C]

No, no, Israel.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

You know, like, you know, you listen, my parents. My parents went to a. You know, spent this. They went to Israel in the Summer of, you know, like 72 or 71 or whatever and lived on a kibbutz. And this is a long time ago. My big Zionist vibes, big different energy at that, totally different understanding of what they. And now my dad is like literally had to relearn what the whole thing even was because we were taught like this is what makes it fundamentally so complicated. You are asking people to not believe what they have been taught from the second they were old enough to understand anything that Israel has only been good and for the protection of you. And they are on the right side of everything. And it was just done to protect people. And particularly this is where I see a big misunderstanding about it post Holocaust, which turned out to be kind of like the best marketing Israel could have gotten. Because obviously it was already going on for a very long time when the Holocaust came, right? We're talking about 50, 60 years after Theodore Herzl or 50 years after Theodore Herzl. So like this is already moving, but now there's a place that Jews can go. And so your whole life you're taught about what it can mean to you. And then to find out while there may be like pieces, kernels of truth in there about what it could be for you, there's all kinds of other stuff that you were not aware of at all. Asking people to relearn that, especially when people are lazy and selfish. People don't want to do that.

[A]

Lazy, selfish privilege and they're privileged and they don't have to.

[B]

It's like oxynated. I mean indoctrination is just.

[A]

But so that's why like when I talk about my mom, right. Who's also Ashkenazi and parents were from Poland. That's why she's angry when they kill it. Sakura Bean because it's a. Rabin was and Yasser Arafat were trying to solve this problem and were on the verge of signing a document to create a two state solution. And there was a push from Netanyahu and these crazy right wingers that ended up resulting in the murder of Itzhak Rabin who was trying to find a solve for what we're seeing today. They don't want us all.

[C]

And also you're talking about in Arafat and Rabin coming together. You're talking about two people who were seen as absolute criminals by the other side. Yitzhak Rabin considered a full on war criminal for when he was in the military just murdering people, doing what he had to do at the time he.

[B]

Was in what military?

[C]

The Israeli military. Yitzhak Rabin was a bit. He was a decorated military person prior to this. Okay. Prior to his political career. Then he ends up rising in the political ranks and starts moving further to the left and being like, this isn't sustainable what we're doing here. This is not. We're talking about the long term sustainment of our well being. This is not working for sure. Arafat, who when I grew up was the definition of a terrorist, right. PLO terrorist, Arafat terrorist. That's what all we thought of, buses blowing up. These are the things you picture, right? These two guys come together and shake hands with Bill Clinton to be like, we're gonna. This is gonna change. Think about what we're seeing. People how they're reacting to Bad Bunny at the fucking Super Bowl. Imagine what they felt when Rabin and Arafat shook hands. To think we could actually change this.

[A]

So they kill Itzhak Rabino, a crazed.

[C]

Right winger in Israel.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

But by the way, who still gets celebrated? There's like a fact, a weird right wing faction.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Celebrates.

[C]

No, no.

[B]

It was what, when Netanyahu was called for kill.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it's Akwa beans. Widow is like, I entirely blame.

[C]

Yes, yes, 100%. And the guy who most celebrated. Obviously I'm not knowledgeable enough. I don't know his name. The guy who most celebrated the murder of Robin, treated it as a national holiday, would go out in the streets every year and have a rally to celebrate his murder. Is in Netanyahu's cabinet right now.

[B]

Oh, they. Wow. Though Netanyahu's cabinet. I met. No, they're one of them, actually.

[C]

I met on that trip.

[B]

I did, I did. I was. I was kind of forced to go see the other side.

[A]

Yeah, they hit you with.

[C]

You got. Hold on. They didn't just let you go party in Tel Aviv. They had to make you go talk to you. Could have done some fun stuff on the other side.

[B]

Speak to the minister of propaganda. I don't. Maybe he was the publicist.

[D]

What was that like?

[B]

It was interesting because I had this whole notebook full of all the things I had seen and read and thought I was gonna catch him up with logic. You know what I mean? I was like, well, what about this? How is this okay? My grand argument was framed as a kid from Chicago, which obviously is a very violent environment. When I walk through Jerusalem and I see Israeli men with shorts, flip flops and yarmulkes carrying open M16s. And then I dart my eyes to the left and I see Palestinian teenagers who are being arrested and given mandatory minimum sentences for throwing stones. I ask him, like I'm asking you, how is that a logical equivalent? How, how does that make sense? One can carry M16s openly and the other has a mandatory minimum for throwing stones. The propaganda minister was like, well, you know, stones could be very big.

[D]

And dangerous.

[B]

And I was like, okay, so we're not having a conversation.

[C]

That was his first line, literally 100%.

[B]

That was his response to why one group of people can carry assault rifles and the other can carry sentences for throwing rocks, was how big rocks can come.

[A]

And that's why. And that's why, like, for years on this show we've talked about how unserious, uncivilized, white supremacist and racist that thing is for years on this show, understanding what it was meant to be, right? But now watching people have to grapple with the reality of what it actually is, because that's where we are today.

[B]

And it ain't no different from what we're dealing with.

[C]

That's what I always.

[A]

And that's what we always say.

[C]

I always try to tell other Jews, like, don't feel bad. America sucks too.

[B]

America's the exact same.

[C]

Yeah, you don't have to feel because we. I understand it, everyone. Like, I get all these comments from people thinking I'm a self hater. But bro, my wife is Israeli. The food that I eat, my comfort food now, is all Israeli food. I'm not some person who like, is hateful and doesn't believe when people say Israeli culture doesn't exist.

[A]

Nothing.

[C]

It's bullshit. Of course there's real things to it. It's real people. There are good people and real culture there that exists, just like in America. But there's also tons of bullshit. We could just accept it the way we've all accepted that America is not what they said it was on paper.

[A]

But on the indoctrination point, shared some Instagram posts with some young ladies trying to break apart the identity of Jewish people away from the Israeli government. Right? Because they've tried to conflate Zionism and Judaism as the same thing.

[C]

Because then if you go anti Israel, you get to call it anti Semitism. And if you go, if you raise enough anti Semitism, you're going to scare the ish out of Jews. And then are they going to go, Israel, they, we need Israel needs anti Semitism.

[B]

Wow, Vicious cycle.

[C]

It's a w. They always equate it.

[B]

To America, man, and say like, America is an evil imperialist state. It is like it carries out acts of atrocity around the globe for financial gain. Financial gain is built on acts of atrocities, built on genocide, is built on the largest slavery in the history of mankind. Like we can collectively acknowledge that. I mean, the, I guess the MAGA crowd, they. They like to pretend that it's not significant, but they don't really.

[A]

Even so did the confederates.

[B]

Yeah, they are the confederates. You know, I mean, they don't deny its existence. They just say it's not as important as we think it is. But obviously the photographic evidence exists. We know what happened and we can criticize that without saying that we hate all the people of New York City. That's what I'm saying. Like we can criticize that and actually be the people of New York City.

[D]

Absolutely.

[A]

And also critiquing something actually shows that you care.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Because guess what? If it didn't matter and you didn't care, you.

[C]

But it's so complicated, you wouldn't even.

[A]

Be talking about it.

[C]

But it's the part that makes it so complicated is that even for someone like me, with all of my thoughts on this, if someone brings it up the wrong way, it could still make you go, I don't like how that sounds. And like, you know, Ye, for example, was a great example of that. Hopefully now he's turned over a new leaf. But you know, when ye was doing all his stuff, the conflating, like I would. You just see it in the comments, like the. So to be anti Israel is absolutely not to be anti Semitic. However, I see my share of people who, when they're really chest puffed about their anti Israel, half the time, 40% of the time, the anti Semitism does follow. And that's what makes it super complicated and hard. Back to my parents, back to my mom who was born in a displaced persons camp. Because we've seen this recently. Like as we get older, you realize how recent that was. Like, this isn't hundreds of years ago. And as I'm watching the dynamic now of everything that's going, bro, you talk about not wanting to worry. Between the Epstein files, Israel, Stephen Miller, I see all the pieces in place for the worst and most unimaginable things to happen. Again, it does exist in my brain.

[A]

Yeah. But on the same token, black people, and we've had this same conversation. When I be like, yo, when they start hanging black people again, y' all gonna start acting real different. Acting like this white supremacy thing ain't something you supposed to be worried about. You supposed to be worried about this at all times.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

When these police get to killing people. Oh, we're here now. Oh, now y' all want to pay attention.

[C]

Well, and this is what we saw this week with people and the way even you see certain people talk about ice like other people of color acting as if the ICE thing isn't their problem. It's the most insane thing of all time. As if it's not gonna all of a sudden become other people. Oh, well, one generation, that's not enough for citizenship. Or wait, what did that person say on their podcast? Or this is the beginning. What did that. This is just the beginning.

[B]

The white supremacist machine relies on collective amnesia.

[C]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Lies on us forgetting what the Black Panther, the party, actually stood for. I've seen a lot of people commenting on the new groups calling themselves Black Panthers, saying, oh, the Black Panthers wouldn't have supported immigrants.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

I'm like, okay, so you haven't read a single book, listened to a speech, nothing. You haven't heard Chairman Fred Hampton say, you don't fight racism with racism. You fight it with solidarity. You haven't heard Huey P. Newton say that we dedicate ourselves to the struggle of all oppressed people and we've decided to call ourselves internationalists. Like, you know how wiped out Malcolm X they were.

[C]

Wiped out. They did such a great job. I gotta give it up. We give credit to Kid Rock earlier. You gotta give it up to the full on white supremacy built baked into our government for the way that they erased the Black Panthers. By the time I was a kid, it meant like, fringe crazy. Like, only hip hop taught me that it was not that.

[D]

Yeah, you had to really look.

[C]

You had to look.

[B]

Facts. Cointelpro's so effective. Oh, man, so effective not only at assassinating all those leaders, but at also, like scrubbing the history.

[D]

Look what's happening now, though, with. With book banning.

[A]

Well, we. And we conveniently like to act like there was freedom of press before. Like they weren't shaping a narrative in the 60s and 70s using mainstream media outlets, the news cycle, in the newspaper. Yes, there were independent newspapers before and that it's very hard to exist now as one, but always and forever, they have shaped the narrative against black consciousness, black activism and all that in this country. So I know people like to act like, oh, we're the media is a problem now. It's always been a problem. It's always been a problem. That's not new.

[B]

I think we end up at an interesting place when people have forgotten the actual life words and work of these leaders and heroes of black history, but only remember the iconography and then use it as they see fit without having actually studied any of what they believed in and what they. What they stood for. And then you end up at a place where a lot of our people think that their enemy is Mexicans or think that their enemy is the Venezuelans or think their enemy is the Somali people, not the. The structure that incarcerates and profits from their incarceration. It's not Palantir that had the conversation with Epstein about returning us to tribalism and then funds or powers ice. Like it's the same people. It's the same Geo Group and Corecivic privatized prison companies that are profiting from niggas making Starbucks caps and shit in the prison that are creating ICE detention centers. And I wonder how, how people can believe that their enemy is the person that's in the other detention center and not the one owning the fucking detention center.

[A]

Cause we. We have a lot of waking up to do, bro. For sure. We have a lot of waking up to do. And also, I don't think people, generally speaking, while they're in the rat race and on the hamster wheel and all these things, have the capacity to do the work and build a life that can disconnect from these machines, these institutions, these conveniences that are provided to them by tech or corporate entities. It's very hard for people. You know what I mean? Even us having this conversation feels great. People are gonna love it, they're gonna like it, they're gonna comment, they're gonna share. And then what? And then what? I mean, okay, yeah, the midterms we got. There's always a new hurdle. Just get to the midterms and get them out of here. And then we'll figure it out. And then there'll be a new hurdle on top of that, and then we.

[C]

Ah, but don't worry. They got to solve for that. The. The Republicans, the Trump is working, so we don't even have to have that. Yeah, we won't even have to play the midterm game anymore.

[A]

Look, they didn't made. They didn't made you not believe in the election process so much that now people maybe will be apathetic, which is what they really want. Because the only people who don't believe in the election process tends to be people who are struggling the most and are the most marginalized. Because I'm going to tell you who's always showing up to cast their ballots. White rich people. They Never not show up. The only people having conversations about this shit not working be us. Think about that. Why is that? They go to all the community board meetings. They show up at all the elections because they have time. They're never talking about not voting.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Why do we do that?

[C]

Yeah, man.

[A]

Vic Mensa, I love you. Proud of you, man. Happy.

[B]

Appreciate you, man. Thank y' all for having me, man.

[A]

Yeah, man. Listen, the Ebro Laura Rosenberg show. Vicminsa.com. anything else we supposed to promo today? Before you out here, I say you just showed up to be our first interview on the love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, listen, man, take notes, man. Didn't even have nothing to promote.

[C]

Nah, he can't. This was a. This was a.

[B]

Surely.

[C]

Yo, when you coming to town? Actually, next week. Come through.

[D]

Love it, love it, love it, love it.

[A]

Yo, give it up one time, Vic. Men on the program.

[C]

Appre.

[A]

A little outro for the people.

[C]

Yes. That's the intro.

[A]

That's the intro. Whoop.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

There you go.

[A]

There we go.

[C]

Pull it together, man. It's our first.

[A]

Sorry, man. Sorry. First guest, you know?

[C]

I mean, your boy had to come.

[B]

With your boy Cuomo.

[A]

Yo, classic moment, man. Might have lost us our gig at high 97. We don't.

[C]

No, but it was worth it.

[D]

It was worth it.

[C]

I think so. Well, listen, in our own way, this show. In our own way, this show, this studio is Vic Mensa with the orange tree.

[A]

That's right. There you go.

[C]

And we wouldn't have found the tree if we hadn't hung Cuomo, hadn't hung up on us. They tried to shut that whole thing down. That's what we knew.

[A]

Listen, subscribe right here. Share, like, do all the things you do on the Internet to let the algorithm know it's possible.

[C]

Are we doing a show on Monday? It's a holiday.

[A]

Oh, that's a good point. Well, holidays.

[C]

We got to figure this out. It's President's Day. It's a real day off for people.

[B]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[A]

All right. We may not be here Monday.

[C]

Of course, you know, we'll see you soon.

[A]

We work for ourselves. We'll figure it out Monday.

[C]

Love y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Maybe we'll throw up, like some greatest hits or something for y' all to check out. Maybe reminisce for the people who just checked in and missed some shows.

[C]

Get a little catch up, you know what I mean?

[A]

Plus, we're gonna be getting into some new logos and things next week. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

The plans continue.

[B]

You.

[A]

Yeah, man, we've got plans and Also, the merch, too, is happening.

[D]

Yes, it's out. Go to IBR. Laura Rosenberg, show.com. it's limited, so I don't want to hear any complaints. Get it now, cuz I'm going to shut it down in a little.

[A]

We might need to take some merch advice from mc.

[C]

Well, I'll tell you one thing we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to do a, a belly, a belly crop version of the We Got Plan shirt. The Vic Mensa style, you know, I.

[A]

Mean, a mesh belly shirt. See y', all, man. Ebro. Laura Rosenberg.

[B]

Yo, boy.

[A]

Just don't call it a podcast.