Hasan Piker (2:03)

Right.

Laura Rosenberg (2:04)

He's an incredible passer.

Hasan Piker (2:05)

I've said too, when people ask me, like, what should America have done after 9 11? I was like, well, not apology. I didn't say apologize. I was like, nothing. It's like, do nothing.

Laura Rosenberg (2:13)

Because Try to figure out what is going on that.

Hasan Piker (2:15)

Because. Because think about like what we did after 9 11. We did a million 911, like since 9 11, right? Just like Israel has done thousands of October 7th since October 7th. And. And no one ever tries to figure out why these things, how these things are incited and the somehow peace isn't happening.

Ebro Darden (2:36)

Well, it's crazy because we're all bloodthirsty savages, right? That's really what it is. And we think that more violence is a path to peace.

Hasan Piker (2:45)

Well, I, I don't even necessarily think that that is like a sincerely held belief. I think, I think it's racism. That's why I think, like, I always try to talk about Zionism from that perspective, which really pisses off people because it's this idea that like, oh no, our opposition are like rapist barbarians. Like, they have to be brought to heel. And this is exactly the same principle that was motivating the pilgrims to, you know, come in, the initial settler colonials, to come in and do Manifest Destiny.

Laura Rosenberg (3:17)

And if we don't kill them, they're wild animals. We have to kill them.

Hasan Piker (3:21)

We have to bring them to heel. We have to tame these uncivilized barbarians. And that's always been the white supremacist motivator that justifies some of the most heinous atrocities that our forefathers have committed in many respects and still continue to do so.

Laura Rosenberg (3:39)

If you're actually American.

Hasan Piker (3:40)

Yeah, yeah, actually, exactly. But even then, my point is it's still happening and it's the exact same mentality. And part of it is because we haven't really healed those old wounds. We've never really offered full restitution for chattel slavery. We've never offered any sort of real reparations for the indigenous massacres, the indigenous genocide in this country. And it's left unchecked. So that's why that same destructive and very divisive attitude rears this ugly head

Laura Rosenberg (4:12)

over and over again. Your Ebro's big on this if you don't own it. Have you been to Germany before?

Hasan Piker (4:17)

Yes, of course.

Ebro Darden (4:18)

You think they've done a good job?

Hasan Piker (4:19)

Fuck no.

Laura Rosenberg (4:20)

You say? Because I thought, I thought, I thought compared to America, they seemed like they actually.

Ebro Darden (4:24)

Relative to America, they've done a lot.

Hasan Piker (4:26)

No, I think. Nah, I know I have a very different.

Ebro Darden (4:29)

See, this is where the, the I've never been. So tell me.

Hasan Piker (4:32)

Okay, this is where the socialism versus, like liberalism change happens.

Laura Rosenberg (4:36)

Okay?

Hasan Piker (4:37)

Where it's like, I don't think. I think West Germany was, was, Was propped up with Nazis. And if you look at, like, if you look at the way that Germany treated, you know, the perpetrators of the Holocaust, like, there were many different schools of thought, like the clean Vermont theory, the idea that, like, some of these soldiers were just following orders and it was fine, as opposed to, like, you know, the SS and some of the more prominent figures, but like America, by way of NATO, reinstituted the same, like, ideological Nazi control in West Germany and use it as a weapon against. Use it as like a vicious, anti communist, anti socialist weapon in Western Europe and certainly in Germany as well. And that's the reason why I was actually reading an article on the Baffler yesterday on this. Germans have a very weird approach to Judaism in general. They have this intense philo. Semitism that I think is only comparable to, like, what white people, how white people treat indigenous people in this country, like, taking on, you know, Jewish traditions and even having, you know, even having, like, wearing a kippah when they're just German, they're not Jewish.

Ebro Darden (5:57)

Oh, almost like here in America, where you'll be driving through a town that clearly has an Indian name.

Hasan Piker (6:03)

Yeah.

Ebro Darden (6:03)

And you're like, but there's no indigenous people here. But they've taken on this identity of, like, this is, this is all these indigenous landmarks. There's all this indigenous stuff claiming, claiming Jewish heritage.

Hasan Piker (6:16)

That's another big one. Like saying, oh, my grandfather, my great, great grandfather is Jewish.

Laura Rosenberg (6:21)

But it makes sense on some sort of deep psychological level to disassociate yourself from these, like, heinous things that happen is like, no, I'm actually connected to the Jewish part of it.

Hasan Piker (6:29)

Yeah, it's, it's, it's a fascinating phenomena. I highly suggest you. You research it a little bit, because I think it's. There's something very interesting about it. And there's something that is, like, not dissimilar to the way white Americans or like, white supremacists treat Native Americans, you know, promoting, like. I mean, look at all of our murder machines. We've all, We've named all of them, like Tomahawk missile and Apache helicopters. I never thought about these sorts of things.

Ebro Darden (7:02)

Are, Are the Redskins.

Hasan Piker (7:03)

Yeah, well, yeah, no, exactly.

Laura Rosenberg (7:06)

I'm a Redskins.

Ebro Darden (7:08)

Well, no, but, but yes, but, yes. Right. Where High school mascots.

Laura Rosenberg (7:12)

Yes, all of it. All of it.

Ebro Darden (7:14)

All of it.

Laura Rosenberg (7:14)

All of it.

Hasan Piker (7:15)

Yeah. So we take on the tradition without actually, like, looking seriously at, like, what we've done to the native population here and, and try to offer some kind of significant Restitution for the, the colonial crimes.

Ebro Darden (7:30)

Well, and, and, and really what you're talking about, too, is the deeper work that a, that a population, a community would have to do if they were serious about actually solving problems long term. Right. And I don't think many, especially in the American, you know, United States culture. We're not serious. We're very unseen.

Hasan Piker (7:54)

No, we are.

Ebro Darden (7:55)

The only thing we're serious about is jobs and money. Yeah. We're not serious.

Hasan Piker (7:58)

Burgers.

Ebro Darden (8:00)

Burgers and fries.

Laura Rosenberg (8:01)

Well, no. And something else that, that leads to a controversy. We need to ask him about. We're serious about our dogs. Oh, serious dog people. Yeah, I saw him too, and I.

Ebro Darden (8:10)

We're serious about my. We're serious about Michael Jackson thriller. We're serious.

Laura Rosenberg (8:14)

No, no, no. And Michael in general.

Ebro Darden (8:15)

Don't you dare disrespect.

Laura Rosenberg (8:16)

But what was so the. You, you use the shot collar on your dog.

Hasan Piker (8:19)

Was that the big I have a. I have a E collar. There's a vibration collar, but she didn't even have it on that day. But it's one of those things where when I tell you, you'll see when this episode comes out. Like, I have unbelievable stalkers that have spent almost seven years of their life at this point, almost eight years of their life at this point, watching every little thing that I do and, like, try to clip it and just, like, blast it out into the ether. And there are content creators that, like, play a role in this as well, where there's an entire economy around.

Laura Rosenberg (8:53)

Yeah, clip economy. There's a Hasan Piker clip economy.

Hasan Piker (8:57)

Been a part of the clip economy for many, many years. Like the American desert 911. Like, there weren't that many people watching me while I was saying that. They put it on Reddit, they blasted it, they. They shipped it off, and then, you know, it went to Keemstar.

Laura Rosenberg (9:10)

Wait, so you just used the, you just used the collar to calm your dog without actually turning on the buzz and people got angry, Is that what you're saying?

Hasan Piker (9:18)

She didn't even have the collar on that day.

Ebro Darden (9:20)

So he has used the collar.

Hasan Piker (9:22)

But I have a. I have a. She's trained, like, she's, she's off leash train.

Laura Rosenberg (9:27)

Right.

Hasan Piker (9:27)

And she has a vibration collar that I use to. When I'm, you know, when I'm out in the park to, like, do recall, like to, to do call back to get her to come back.

Laura Rosenberg (9:37)

I know people who use those.

Hasan Piker (9:38)

And it's not. And have you felt them?

Laura Rosenberg (9:40)

They're not very.

Hasan Piker (9:41)

No, no. There's no. There's.

Ebro Darden (9:42)

No.

Hasan Piker (9:42)

There's. There's shock collars as well. And I have literally put a shock collar on myself to do, like, a bit before with. With another content creator. So, like, I know it. I know how it feels.

Laura Rosenberg (9:53)

So what is this if it's not the E collar, if it's not a shit?

Hasan Piker (9:55)

It just vibrates.

Laura Rosenberg (9:56)

Just vibrates, right?

Hasan Piker (9:57)

It just vibrates.

Ebro Darden (9:59)

Well, they're gonna. They're gonna watch this and say, you're a liar.

Hasan Piker (10:01)

Yeah. Yeah. I don't really care.

Laura Rosenberg (10:02)

But that's it. That's the crux of this.

Hasan Piker (10:04)

But the crux of it is, like, they pieced up, like, so many different clips to be like, oh, every time he's moving his arm. And, like, my dog moves in any way, they're like, oh, he has a button on his desk that he's hitting to, like, zap his. His dog. And then they crafted this, like, insane theory that, like, I'm forcing her to stay behind me. And it's like, dogs sleep in the same low. In the same place. They want to be next to their owners. You have a dog? I do, yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (10:31)

He likes his bed right next to my bed.

Hasan Piker (10:32)

Exactly. And so they crafted this elaborate scheme where they were like, oh, he's, like, zapping her. Zapping his dog to stay in one location in front of the camera. I don't give a shit if she's on camera or not. Like, I don't. You know, she. She has a bed behind me.

Laura Rosenberg (10:48)

Are you messed up at all by this? The amount of, like, talk around?

Hasan Piker (10:51)

I'm so used to it. I am, yeah. At this point.

Ebro Darden (10:55)

Are you okay?

Hasan Piker (10:57)

I am okay. I. It's. I'm surprisingly all right. And the reason why I'm all right is because I. I've been advocating for socialism with no audience whatsoever for the past 10 years, and back then, you know, 10 years ago, 13 years ago, there weren't a lot of people like me out there. There was, you know, we're talking pre Bernie Sanders even, Right. So I'm used to getting yelled at a lot by people who misunderstand what I'm saying or professional misunderstanders who want to disparage what I'm saying.

Ebro Darden (11:28)

Stealing.

Laura Rosenberg (11:29)

That's a great one. Professional misunderstanders. There's a lot of them.

Hasan Piker (11:32)

Yeah. So I've been used to that. I'm. I'm used to death threats. I'm used to people doxing and, you know, trying to swap me and. And all this stuff. And now I don't feel so lonely anymore. So what?

Laura Rosenberg (11:47)

Because of the amount of. You feel like you have, like, protection from people who care for you or

Ebro Darden (11:52)

just people who are.

Laura Rosenberg (11:53)

Yeah. Rooting for you?

Ebro Darden (11:54)

This.

Hasan Piker (11:55)

This movement has grown so much since 2016 when Bernie first ran. You know, you got the DSA. That's a powerful political organization in this. In this city. I mean, you got Zora Momdani and. And numerous other candidates. You have incredible candidates are running for office all around the country right now. You asked me some more. I can give you some more. Shoika Chakrabarti is another guy in San Francisco running for Pelosi seat that I really like.

Ebro Darden (12:24)

Yeah, I see. I've seen him too.

Hasan Piker (12:25)

Yeah.

Ebro Darden (12:26)

How do you pronounce his name?

Hasan Piker (12:27)

Shoykat.

Ebro Darden (12:28)

Shoykat.

Hasan Piker (12:28)

Yeah, sure. Got Chakrabarti. I'm doing something with Chris Rab in Philly tomorrow. I'm doing something with Cori Bush in Missouri the day after. So there are a lot.

Ebro Darden (12:38)

You remember Cori Bush was one apac right now.

Hasan Piker (12:40)

Yeah. Yeah, with Wesley Bell. That was crazy. That was a crazy election. I couldn't.

Ebro Darden (12:45)

Well, Jamal, we're close with Jamal Bowman here.

Hasan Piker (12:47)

Same. I saw him last night.

Ebro Darden (12:48)

Yeah.

Hasan Piker (12:49)

Yeah, Jamal's the man. I love him.

Laura Rosenberg (12:50)

Yeah, he got. He got a packed bad.

Hasan Piker (12:52)

Yeah, he. Four plates. He can do four plates? Yeah, for three. It's crazy.

Ebro Darden (12:57)

He can.

Hasan Piker (12:57)

He can rep four place on the bench press.

Laura Rosenberg (13:00)

Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know. He goes hard like that.

Ebro Darden (13:02)

Big bad Dean, big bench press. He's a big bench press guy.

Hasan Piker (13:06)

No, no, no, He's. I'm not Jamal. Jamal Bowman is. Is so stacked, it's crazy.

Laura Rosenberg (13:12)

He's a good dude. He just hit me like, an hour ago.

Hasan Piker (13:14)

Another. Another guy who's stacked is Abdul. Abdul can do three plates.

Ebro Darden (13:17)

I saw you guys working out on your. On your Instagram. Yeah, I reached out to Abdul. I haven't. I wanted to give him some time.

Hasan Piker (13:23)

Oh, yeah, no, he'd love to. Come on. Yeah, I saw him last night as well, but. So there are a lot of great people out there who are. Who I think are more responsive in their politics. Like, genuinely want to put, you know, class interests first, the working classes interest first. And. And I think that's what a lot of people are threatened by nowadays, and that's why you see all these, like, heinous smears and attacks coming from the Republican side that many Democrats are leaning into as well, because they feel like they're losing their grip of power.

Ebro Darden (13:54)

So prepare us after this interview. How much Hate.

Hasan Piker (13:57)

Are we going to get a tremendous amount?

Ebro Darden (13:59)

Really, going forward?

Hasan Piker (14:00)

People will always be like, why did you have this guy here? Here's a million different things that is impossible for you to find the context of. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. He said this, he said that.

Ebro Darden (14:11)

But we have what you said here though.

Laura Rosenberg (14:13)

But it will matter.

Hasan Piker (14:14)

It doesn't matter.

Laura Rosenberg (14:15)

Not with the clip economy.

Hasan Piker (14:16)

Yeah.

Ebro Darden (14:16)

It doesn't matter that I sat in front of you and you took accountability for being a white guy who doesn't quite, you know, get all of the racial nuances and, and, and are not anti black.

Hasan Piker (14:29)

Yeah, it. That doesn't matter at all. Doesn't matter because I had a conversation.

Ebro Darden (14:33)

Doesn't matter that we sat here and you talked about all your Jewish friends and how you have a Jewish friend group and.

Hasan Piker (14:39)

No, they'll say, oh, of course.

Laura Rosenberg (14:41)

Yeah. By the way. Come on.

Hasan Piker (14:42)

Yeah. They're going to be like, oh, Jewish friends. Yeah. I don't even, you know, that's why

Ebro Darden (14:48)

I don't it up like that.

Hasan Piker (14:50)

But that's why I don't even play with that. Like I don't even talk about that at all. I'm like, no, these are my opinions because I know everyone's going to be like, no, it's regardless, right?

Laura Rosenberg (14:58)

The try, the checking.

Ebro Darden (14:59)

You try to adjust similarly. Not quite as serious. Drake fans don't believe that I'm a Drake fan.

Laura Rosenberg (15:05)

Yeah. No matter what he says.

Ebro Darden (15:07)

No matter what I say.

Hasan Piker (15:08)

Wow.

Ebro Darden (15:08)

That's just because during the battle he got washed.

Hasan Piker (15:11)

That's a, That's a real struggle for you.

Laura Rosenberg (15:13)

Yo, it's hard every day.

Hasan Piker (15:15)

Okay.

Ebro Darden (15:16)

Yo, the comments are crazy.

Laura Rosenberg (15:17)

Did you weigh into Drake and Kendrick at all?

Hasan Piker (15:19)

Yeah, I definitely sided with Kendrick.

Ebro Darden (15:21)

Why? Why? Definitely. Why are you saying it like that, bro?

Hasan Piker (15:24)

What?

Ebro Darden (15:24)

You agreed saying, no, I'm a Drake fan. So you know Kendrick during the battle and then there's during battle, after battle.

Hasan Piker (15:31)

Ok. I think he's just don't get mad at me. I think he's kind of corny, which is the biggest crime you can commit. I think he's a corny guy. Who Drake is Drake not corny.

Laura Rosenberg (15:44)

Don't put him in the spot because this is. This is now.

Ebro Darden (15:47)

I don't. I believe Drake is himself and that's why we loved who he was. So if you think he's corny, you just don't like who he is as a person. I don't think he's corny. I think he's been vulnerable. I think he's made great songs and I think He's a great rapper.

Laura Rosenberg (15:59)

And no matter what he does, he cannot defeat the clip economy that has decided he hates Drake right now.

Ebro Darden (16:05)

Now, I believe that people throw the corny on Drake because they have an archetype for a rapper. And so because they have this archetype in their brain of what a rapper is supposed to act like and look like and talk like.

Laura Rosenberg (16:19)

But Drake plays that part ironically. He's very into the arch.

Ebro Darden (16:23)

But that's the mistake that he.

Laura Rosenberg (16:24)

I agree, right. He got baited, but that's what he feels is corny. You're not. You may not pinpoint it, but what I think you probably think is corny about Drake is that he plays the archetype of what a rapper is instead.

Ebro Darden (16:34)

But he didn't always do that, though. He. When we first met Drake, he was not doing this badmin rapper show, like, you know what I mean? He wasn't talking about slime and gang and mob life and all. He wasn't doing that. But I think along. Along the timeline somewhere he felt, you know, either he started hanging out in that circle and he took on that, or people was playing with him a little bit and he felt like, if I act a little bit. What were you gonna say, Lou? Huh?

Laura Rosenberg (17:06)

He's saying the young money era.

Ebro Darden (17:08)

Whenever there, whatever the error is, I just don't. I think Drake became something that we didn't meet him as. And that was the critique that Kendrick used.

Hasan Piker (17:16)

Also, he's a big steak affiliate, so those are my main ops too. I got. What is the.

Ebro Darden (17:22)

Wait, wait, tell me more.

Laura Rosenberg (17:23)

Yeah, what's the stake thing?

Hasan Piker (17:24)

The crypto casino.

Laura Rosenberg (17:26)

Right.

Hasan Piker (17:26)

And they. They're not fond of me.

Ebro Darden (17:29)

Why?

Laura Rosenberg (17:29)

Why?

Hasan Piker (17:30)

Yeah, because I was very critical of them doing gambling ads on Twitch and they got kicked off of Twitch. And I mean, the. The founders, they're printing money, they're multi billionaires at this point of Steak or Twitch?

Ebro Darden (17:43)

Steak. Steak.

Hasan Piker (17:44)

Got it. And then that's what they. They got kicked off Twitch. So they were like, all right, you. We're gonna start our own competitive platform.

Laura Rosenberg (17:53)

And what'd they start?

Hasan Piker (17:53)

Kick.

Laura Rosenberg (17:54)

They started kick.

Hasan Piker (17:55)

Yeah. So they have. They've never given up on that.

Ebro Darden (17:59)

Well, so now I do critique Drake, though, which is also why his fan base doesn't take kindly. Right. Because what's this Aiden Ross thing we're doing, my guy? What is this? Yeah, what are we doing? Another.

Hasan Piker (18:11)

Another one of my ain Ross up the. Every. Every villain that you know on the Internet has had a long and extended protracted war.

Laura Rosenberg (18:22)

What about academics, though? You ever battled with academics?

Hasan Piker (18:24)

Yes.

Laura Rosenberg (18:24)

Wow.

Ebro Darden (18:25)

Yo, act don't like us either. Talk to us.

Hasan Piker (18:28)

DJ academics is. I mean, he's, he's aligned with all of these like right wing shitheads. So of course he.

Ebro Darden (18:34)

Well, yeah, we saw him promote Trump and we were really like.

Hasan Piker (18:36)

We've had a conversation in the past where he was like, yeah, I watched him pool and I watch you. And he didn't like fully grasp what my worldview was. There's a very famous line in that interview where he goes like, you're kind of sounding like a socialist. Dangerously close to a socialist, my guy. That's what he said to me.

Laura Rosenberg (18:50)

Dangerously close.

Hasan Piker (18:51)

Like, wow. Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (18:52)

You don't say, huh?

Hasan Piker (18:53)

You nailed it.

Laura Rosenberg (18:54)

Yeah, you really, you get him.

Ebro Darden (18:55)

Do you think, do you think the world view on the term socialism. Well, let's not say worldview. Let's say the American view on the term socialism is shifting due to. Oh, yeah, due to what we're seeing with Mom, Donnie and even the work you're doing.

Hasan Piker (19:10)

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you got. What is it like this new polling that comes out every day where they're, you know, it's like 40% of Democrats self identify as like Democratic soldiers is unheard of. It's unbelievable.

Laura Rosenberg (19:23)

So the growth of that sect of the party is really. It's a real thing.

Hasan Piker (19:27)

Absolutely.

Laura Rosenberg (19:28)

You think there's any chance for a National Democratic Socialist to.

Hasan Piker (19:33)

I mean, there are DSA aligned and affiliated candidates that are running and in all these different races. So it's slowly but surely growing.

Ebro Darden (19:44)

And what would you say the. Give us the short term view on what Democratic socialism is working on today because it feels like you're getting whatever the group emails are and all the conference calls and give us the long.

Hasan Piker (19:59)

Well, there's one thing about the left is we're always infighting. So no, no two Left is ever going to agree on everything. But the most like, top down, somewhat reductive viewpoint here is, is the goals are to put forth through the Democratic Party, which is, you know, the only viable party in the duopoly that we currently have to run candidates that are, you know, DSA cadre candidates and have them perform in the exact way that Zoron is currently, you know, like, have them identify key problems that they want to solve and, and have them be popular governors and have people come to terms, like maybe people come to terms with the idea that like, democratic socialism isn't this like scary concept at all and that it actually just should be associated with more responsive governance rather than whatever scary Red scare propaganda that people

Ebro Darden (21:04)

still believe the marketing.

Hasan Piker (21:05)

Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (21:06)

Do you have a. Is there a current candidate that's interesting you for president?

Hasan Piker (21:12)

Aoc.

Laura Rosenberg (21:14)

That's the only one who could get you excited at this moment. She's the only person I come around to that I go think could potentially actually run and win an election who I would actually be excited about.

Hasan Piker (21:24)

But I think she needs to be way more aggressive. You know, I, I further left. You mean not even further. I think she's. See, this is the thing. A lot of people don't realize that she's one of the most progressive congresspersons in the country. Like, her track record is insane.

Laura Rosenberg (21:39)

But.

Hasan Piker (21:40)

But people don't know that well.

Ebro Darden (21:41)

But some of you're saying more aggressive about her marketing and getting, getting more

Hasan Piker (21:45)

aggressive with their messaging. Just duke it out. And you think they're gonna.

Ebro Darden (21:49)

If she runs, you think they'll pull up that interview we did with her when we were just grilling. I mean that was before it was even popular. I was going so hard on Israel in that interview.

Laura Rosenberg (21:59)

People. I think she's spoken enough about that that, you know. Yeah, there's some people who won't. She won't be good on it for some people.

Ebro Darden (22:05)

How long was that?

Hasan Piker (22:06)

27 grilled her on Israel.

Ebro Darden (22:07)

She was not grilled her. We were just talking about Israel and I was calling a white, white supremacist state. And you. You know, this is before October 7th.

Hasan Piker (22:17)

I think her foreign policy stuff was not as great when she first ran. She's gotten a lot better on foreign. Well, but that's again another area where her left, like people to her left and I'm definitely to her left ideologically. But a lot of people I think don't give her a fair shake necessarily where they just grill the. Out of her. They like are. We are very mean to people that are closest to us ideologically on the left. Like, we are so much.

Laura Rosenberg (22:45)

Especially if they're slightly to the right.

Hasan Piker (22:47)

Yeah. We're so much more aggressive towards people who are maybe, you know, to people we have slight disagreements with on the. On the left. And it's just an annoying thing.

Laura Rosenberg (22:59)

It's going to get worse and worse for you too.

Hasan Piker (23:01)

Oh.

Laura Rosenberg (23:01)

Because now that you're mainstream, no matter how you cut it, and you're really

Ebro Darden (23:04)

influential and he's advocating for different.

Laura Rosenberg (23:07)

And you're advocating for different things. You are going to have the people on your left who are going to now be coming for your neck all the time.

Hasan Piker (23:13)

It's also been a constant, though. There There are, there are people call me a Zionist, bro. Yeah, no, like, literally me too. There are people who call me a Zionist. And I'm like, you know, I went on Pod Save America to explain the concept of like, you know, a legal right to resistance, which I think is a major hurdle for a lot of Americans. Like, they can't, they understand it. Like the pro Palestinian people, they understand like, oh, Palestinians are getting destroyed. Like, this is really fucked up, it's a genocide. But they, they can't comprehend how like brown people would potentially take up arms and try to fight back against it. That's a bridge too far for a lot of, for a lot of white people, a lot of Western people in general.

Ebro Darden (23:54)

No, when white people see black people angry and with guns.

Hasan Piker (23:58)

Same with Hezbollah as well. Like, that's, that's a major, that's a big part of the reason why, like, a lot of people that, that, you know, call me an anti Semite. That's the real reason why they say that, because they're like, this guy is like defending resistance movements.

Laura Rosenberg (24:15)

But you, but that's, but that's across the board. That's not. Yeah, that's not specific to Israel.

Hasan Piker (24:19)

And it's, and it's, it's a principled stance that I have. Same with the anc, same with the ira, same with the fln. Like, there are so many different historic anti colonial resistance movements that have done heinous things. But at the end of the day, the true crime in that situation is always the systemic, the systemic violence that people are subjected to. Apartheid is an illegal endeavor, but, you know, at the time of its existence in South Africa, it was legal, right? It was, it was codified, right? Same with Israel. Israel's apartheid, the maintenance of apartheid is unbelievably violent. And that standard of violence is ever present, and that violence is what invokes a violent retaliatory response. And when I make this argument, a lot of people, some people understand it, they go, okay, that does make sense. When I say, look, what would you do, right? What would you do if you were in that situation? If you were Palestinian and your entire family was slaughtered by Israeli missiles? Like, would you not fight back? Would you not take up?

Laura Rosenberg (25:22)

Yeah, but the easy response for a lot of people would be, well, what I wouldn't do is go to a music festival and murder civilians.

Hasan Piker (25:27)

Well, the problem is most people, once again, don't understand what it looks like to live under those conditions for 75 years at that point. Right? It's. And they look at Analysis. And they say, oh, that's justification. It's heinous.

Laura Rosenberg (25:44)

It is.

Hasan Piker (25:45)

But so is the regular maintenance of the Israeli apartheid for the past 75 years up until that point that many people were oblivious to and only have now recently found out about.

Laura Rosenberg (25:56)

But I maintain that those things that you believe could all be significantly more palatable if you didn't add the slight little algorithm hustle of. And that's why I would choose Hamas a thousand times in a row. Because it's. The truth is, as Ebert I've been talking about. We talked about having you up here. You're probably not choosing either my guy. You're probably not choosing Hamas or Israel. The best answer is this isn't working out altogether.

Hasan Piker (26:19)

Yeah, it's not. But my point always is also, like, Hamas would not be this, like, violent enterprise or there would be no, like, violent militant resistance if the apartheid didn't exist. Their primary goal is the abolition of the occupation. I do believe that 100%, like, that is the North Star of the Palestinians. Even those who disagree with Hamas.

Laura Rosenberg (26:44)

Do you take any issue with, like, the idea that the tops of Hamas and the people funding Hamas are like, living in, you know, villas in Qatar?

Hasan Piker (26:53)

No, all that stuff is bullshit. I mean, Yahya Sinwar was. Was executed by the Israeli state inside of Gaza.

Laura Rosenberg (27:00)

So that. That's not even. You don't even believe that to be true, that they have leadership in those places?

Hasan Piker (27:04)

No, I mean, there's people that live in Doha. Yeah, the. The Hamas politburo.

Laura Rosenberg (27:08)

Yeah. They have an actual office.

Hasan Piker (27:09)

Yeah, yeah. The civilian wing of Hamas, that is the, the politburo, they live in. In Doha. Right. But even they're getting assassinated by Israel. I mean, Ismail Haniyeh, the. The principal negotiator and the previous chief, he got assassinated in Tehran.

Ebro Darden (27:28)

They killed him.

Hasan Piker (27:28)

So it's not like these guys are in like, fantastic conditions. You know what I mean? Like, they have to live in constant and fear.

Laura Rosenberg (27:35)

Do you realize that I have to check myself too when I'm saying things that there are times when I realize that my thoughts are all still coming from. They're still coming from a propaganda machine. It's still built into me. Like, if I'm like, oh, but the rich living in Qatar and they're being served tea and they're. I'm hearing that from the places that would want me to feel that way. By the way, I am firmly not in Hasan's camp of thinking. I take Hamas. I'm not on board with that at all. I'm anti Anti. Anti. I'm just saying in my discussing them, I am being fed what's being fed to me.

Hasan Piker (28:07)

Yeah. So the way I see it is like, look, I am not fond of the Turkish government. Right. Erdogan is horrible. I can't go back to Turkey. I've been threatened by the Turkish government in the past for things that are written about the Turkish.

Ebro Darden (28:22)

Maybe Eric Adams could have helped you.

Hasan Piker (28:24)

Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (28:24)

Is that what he is now?

Hasan Piker (28:25)

Yeah. And now.

Ebro Darden (28:26)

Now I remember. Yeah, that was part of the scam.

Hasan Piker (28:28)

He was Albanian now.

Laura Rosenberg (28:29)

Oh, no, he's Albanian.

Hasan Piker (28:31)

But he's.

Ebro Darden (28:32)

No, but him in Turkey was moving soldier.

Hasan Piker (28:35)

He was our strongest soldier for sure. Which is why when I talked to Zoran the first time in the. In the primaries, I was like, bro, come on. Like, I'm. I'm. I'm helping you out here. But, you know, my God, for tat. Quid pro quo, like, we gotta. We gotta do something for the Turks. And then what did he do? He's over there recognizing the Armenian genocide and. And doing everything else that Eric Adams didn't do. Which, by the way, I also recognize for the record, before people yell.

Laura Rosenberg (29:02)

Yeah, by the way, you wanna. Eric Adams didn't recognize the Armenian genocide.

Hasan Piker (29:06)

No. One of the. One of the conditions. Oh, God. Is it's so low motion. Like, the Turks have no motion. It makes me kind of sad. It's embarrassing. They literally were like, hey, we're giving you all these, like, flights. Can you please not say anything about the Armenian Genocide on Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day? That was one of the things that they got out of that bargain. And then the other thing was, the other thing was they fast tracked the embassy. It wasn't up to fire code. And then they fast tracked the. The embassy opening without going through the proper fire code and getting it cleared. And I'm thinking, like, that's the most that the Turks were able to do. Meanwhile, Israel is literally, like, if you don't say that, you know, Palestinian children are Hamas, we are going to make sure you get fired from your, you know, comptroller position in fucking Terre Haute, Indiana. Meanwhile, you can't even get the Eric Adams. You can't get anything. It was fucking bullshit. It's bullshit.

Laura Rosenberg (30:03)

Nah, he wasn't the soldier you needed. You didn't get enough done.

Hasan Piker (30:06)

There's just. That's why I'm saying it's like such a funny double standard where people are like, wow, this is unbelievably corrupt. Which it was. Of course it was corrupt. And Eric Adams is a piece of Shit. For a million different reasons. Even before we talk about, you know, fire safety standards in the Turkish embassy. But it's just funny that, like, we. We will. We will look at things like that and be like, well, that. Look at how corrupt this guy is. Meanwhile, AIPAC is just, you know, making politicians dance all around the country.

Laura Rosenberg (30:35)

We're seeing a little distance. Creating, though there's a little more distance than there ever was before.

Ebro Darden (30:39)

Even Cory Booker. We call Cory Booker trans Jewish up here.

Laura Rosenberg (30:43)

Yeah, he's trans. He is trans Jewish.

Hasan Piker (30:45)

Hey, Cory Booker. Have you guys ever seen the videos with him and Rabbi Shmuli? No, I. Oh, my God. You got to pull that up and watch.

Laura Rosenberg (30:52)

Wait, is this.

Hasan Piker (30:52)

He's giving a piggyback ride to Rabbi.

Laura Rosenberg (30:54)

No. It's wild, bro.

Hasan Piker (30:55)

Yeah, I'm not.

Laura Rosenberg (30:56)

I can't say I'm surprised.

Hasan Piker (30:57)

That's not. AI. I don't think they're as tight anymore. But, I mean, he was homies with Rabbi Schmolley.

Laura Rosenberg (31:04)

Well, if piggyback rides are happening.

Hasan Piker (31:05)

Yeah.

Ebro Darden (31:06)

Wait, and other than the piggyback ride being controversial. Shmuley. Rabbi Schmooley is controversial just because he's a rabbi?

Laura Rosenberg (31:13)

No, no, he's the. He's the.

Hasan Piker (31:15)

I don't know who Rabbi Shmuley is.

Laura Rosenberg (31:16)

Rabbi Schmuley's the Michael Jackson's in trouble. He better go hang with Rabbi Schmooley. He's the I'll get you. He's the get you out of jail card rabbi.

Hasan Piker (31:23)

He's a very famous.

Ebro Darden (31:24)

That's not the Kanye west rabbi, is it?

Hasan Piker (31:26)

No, no, no. That's a different rabbi. That one.

Laura Rosenberg (31:29)

A lot of fraudulent rabbis you can find.

Hasan Piker (31:31)

Apparently, the kai was. Rabbi is crazy, too. Look at. Look at.

Laura Rosenberg (31:34)

No, I looked him up.

Hasan Piker (31:35)

You look at what he did in Israel, like, what his. What his homies have done in Israel. There's some very strange cases in Israel about, like, weird case.

Laura Rosenberg (31:44)

Why are you around?

Hasan Piker (31:46)

Yeah, for sure. But regardless, Rabbi Shmuli Bot is. Is. I don't even know if he has, like, a synagogue that he's affiliated with, but his daughter sells kosher sex toys, has a kosher sex shop.

Ebro Darden (32:00)

All right.

Laura Rosenberg (32:01)

Yeah, I didn't know we needed. I didn't know they needed to be coach.

Hasan Piker (32:04)

Yeah, and he's like. He's like a woke. Or was a woke rabbi who was like. I think he was, like, positioning himself as, like, a liberal Zionist. That obviously has changed post October 7th. But he's. He's a very interesting character. I. I personally think he's really you

Ebro Darden (32:20)

know, you show there's no. So as terrible as October 7th was, as terrible and as horrific as it was, and it's recent, it's new, it's fresh. So I get the pain. Does no one talk about how like through all of the different painful instances since 1948, October 7th is being, you know, marketed as the most horrible. But there's been tons of horrible stuff.

Laura Rosenberg (32:45)

Right, but that's what marketing. But that's, I mean, well, two things to what you just said. It's recent and people were actually hurt by like there's. I've seen people whose brains have broken and I think it started from an authentic feeling of sadness and hurt over October 7th. Then their brain broke, then the marketing kicked in and the combination of the recency, the marketing, the actual pain, it was the perfect storm to make it. What you're saying the all important defining

Hasan Piker (33:14)

thing is intergenerational trauma, right?

Laura Rosenberg (33:16)

That's it.

Hasan Piker (33:17)

It's intergenerational trauma from pogroms. Like Jews have always been like the historic enemies. Anytime there's any sort of economic problem, blame the Jew Jesus are. Or whether it be, you know, the village leaders, like, oh, the Jews are poisoning the well. Right. So, so there is, there's, you know, thousands of years of this historic trauma that's baked into the Jewish identity and Jewish education. And then obviously the Holocaust, which is this like final event, right? So when you're, when you're taught that, and that's understandable that you're taught that and then you see, and then you hear Israel is like the safe haven that is going to make sure that that never happens again. And you're taught to love Israel this way. And then you see October 7th happen and then people who are more knowledgeable about what Israel was doing leading up to October 7th, that that is the reason why October 7th happened, come out and be like, no, no, no, Israel is still at fault here and that you go, what the fuck are you saying? You must be a vicious anti semi. And in some ways it is hysteria. I mean there was so many hysterical things that happened after October 7th. There were doxxing trucks on college campuses. Things that we forgot about.

Ebro Darden (34:30)

Wait, what?

Hasan Piker (34:31)

Oh, you don't remember this? Do you guys not remember this at all? Doxing trucks, Yale, Harvard, every single major college campus that had an SJP Students for Justice for Palestine group or JJP group, they all released statements after October 7th saying basically what the Haaretz editorial board said after October 7th, like almost identical, where it was like, we have to take a sincere look at, like, what Israel has done for the last 75 years. This is the reason why October 7th happened. Like, that's what everyone was saying, myself included. And so was Haaretz, obviously. And when you said that in America, a bunch of unbelievably wealthy Zionist donors would go to those college campuses and hire trucks with those, like, you know, the trucks that, like, promote strip clubs

Laura Rosenberg (35:16)

and shit to blast music.

Ebro Darden (35:20)

The screens, on the side of the

Hasan Piker (35:21)

screens, and they would have the students name identification, like, where they are, and they would be like, this is a heinous Hamas, like, rape enjoyer. Boom, boom, boom. Names and everything else. And. And they would just, like, roam around campus. That was, like, right after October 7th, like, Canary Mission.

Ebro Darden (35:40)

I feel like I saw that. I mean, I definitely heard about, like, the.

Hasan Piker (35:43)

The people were doing the Would you hide me? Like, people are in the Upper west side, like, getting in an Uber and being like, oh, would you hide me? Like, I'm like, there. It was like a. Like a sense of panic. You didn't. You didn't.

Ebro Darden (35:56)

You know.

Laura Rosenberg (35:56)

What was the word? You hide me? The. The docs and stuff.

Hasan Piker (35:58)

There were. There were. There were, like, prominent influencers that would be like, oh, the would you hide me? Campaign was like, if October 7th happened in America, would you hide me? Like, the. The idea that, like, Jews were under serious threat, not dissimilar to what happened in, like, Nova Festival or in the Gaza envelope, in the kibbutzim in the Upper west side.

Laura Rosenberg (36:22)

Well, I live on the Upper west side, and I just want to say I didn't feel that level of stress. Yeah, no, there was crazy things that happened, and it's really messed up because, like you mentioned, there is real intergenerational trauma and there is real sadness. And the fact that always. What broke my heart so much extra about October 7th was that, like, these were, like, peaceful kids partying near the border. It wasn't. Of course it wasn't in the West Bank. It wasn't violent settlers who were attacked. It all worked out perfectly. It seemed like for everybody, from the

Hasan Piker (36:52)

perspective of the Palestinians, like, they're living in a concentration camp. Like, from their perspective is the Warsaw ghetto uprising, which, again, another thing that really pisses off people when I say that. When I make a comparison, they're like, it's still heinous, but it's. It's almost zone of interest. Like, where you have a festival so close to this, like, Gaza boundary we talked about.

Laura Rosenberg (37:15)

No, it's more ironic tragedy to me than I Feel, like, purposeful in that?

Ebro Darden (37:19)

No, but we talked about this after October 7th, remember? I was asking, I was like, in what world do they put a music festival in that proximity?

Hasan Piker (37:28)

It's hubris. 100 they. They. It's the same.

Ebro Darden (37:32)

Who approved?

Laura Rosenberg (37:33)

Well, they. But they wouldn't have had. They wouldn't have had, like, orthodox settlers hanging out over there. They knew the kind of people that would be there. They knew it was lefty kids that would be there.

Hasan Piker (37:42)

Yeah, they were making that distinction, is what I'm saying.

Laura Rosenberg (37:45)

No, no, no, you're saying that, you're saying that. That Hamas wasn't making that distinction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're saying that Israel would make that distinction.

Hasan Piker (37:51)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (37:52)

In terms of comfort, of who's where.

Hasan Piker (37:54)

The kibbutzim is like, it's like, you know, communal living. These are like peaceniks who want to

Laura Rosenberg (38:00)

be close and are like.

Hasan Piker (38:01)

And understand established relationships inside of Gaza as well. But like, the Gaza envelope is surrounding the Gaza Strip with those kibbutzim as like almost like the first perimeter. It's like a barrier, almost a security barrier to potentially be sacrificed as well. From the Israeli government's perspective, which was the prevailing initially.

Ebro Darden (38:24)

And this is new for me. You're telling me right outside the Gaza Strip are people who are sympathetic.

Hasan Piker (38:32)

More sympathetic.

Ebro Darden (38:33)

More sympathetic to what's going on in the Gaza.

Hasan Piker (38:36)

Some of the older people. Like, like, there are. There are definitely, like, people who would try to do, like, medical missions inside of Gaza, like get people with cancer out of Gaza. But, like, the whole point is like, these are. These people are in fucking Gaza and they can't get the treatment itself or the medicine. So, like, the real, the real solution there isn't to, like, try to help individual Palestinians living in Gaza. The real solution is the abolition of the apartheid. Right? The abolition of this. The destruction of this wall, this partition that exists.

Laura Rosenberg (39:06)

I'm told that we have the Cory Booker video. Should we want to see it? You want to see it?

Ebro Darden (39:10)

Yeah, it sounds crazy.

Hasan Piker (39:36)

I mean, I'm not, I'm not pointing to be like, you know how like white supremacists will. Will point to this and be like, see, they're doing like a weird Jewish ritual or something. Well, I'm just showing that to tell you that he's. He was homies.

Ebro Darden (39:49)

No, but we, We've known this.

Hasan Piker (39:50)

Yeah, yeah.

Ebro Darden (39:51)

I mean, look, we've.

Laura Rosenberg (39:52)

But even book supported.

Ebro Darden (39:53)

We've supported Cory Booker. We've had him on our.

Laura Rosenberg (39:55)

No, no, we have. There have been times I've Liked Cory and there have been times I've been immensely disappointed by him. I you brought you.

Ebro Darden (40:01)

Frozenberg was very passionate about how pro is real and apac. Cory Booker was before me before.

Laura Rosenberg (40:08)

I think he was. I think he was like president of the Hillel in college. Like, my man just went really far.

Hasan Piker (40:12)

Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (40:13)

Like you went, I'm Jewish, bro. Like, you went really? You're going really far. But. But to the point we were making, he has start. Even Cory Booker is starting to create a little distance and point out things.

Hasan Piker (40:23)

He's still doing the whole I won't go on a song stream. It's like, bro, I didn't ask you to come on.

Ebro Darden (40:27)

You know, I didn't even know about that.

Hasan Piker (40:29)

Yeah, oh, yeah, he did that. He was like one of the guys that they. Because Jewish insider went to every single person and was like, would you go on piker stream? Would you not go on a song? It's like, why is this news, man? Like, it's crazy anyway.

Ebro Darden (40:42)

Well, it gets the Internet going. It's algorithm hustle. Never forget.

Laura Rosenberg (40:44)

And that mean and you're hot, so people want to mention stuff next to you.

Ebro Darden (40:47)

Clip economy. What have you learned today? Clip economy. Oh, no, I'm algorithm hustling.

Hasan Piker (40:52)

This is bro Fox News yesterday. First of all, Fox News been doing a hit piece on me every hour at the top of the hour for eight hours every single day for the last three weeks.

Laura Rosenberg (41:03)

Well, because you've been on this media run, it's a good time.

Hasan Piker (41:05)

And they, they, yesterday, they said, Jimmy Kimmel is the Hasan piker of ABC Strong.

Ebro Darden (41:12)

No, that's big.

Hasan Piker (41:14)

Which is. I mean, I like it. I'm like, no, that's aura. That's aura.

Laura Rosenberg (41:17)

No, that's. That's because Kimmel. Kimmel goes hard. Yeah, that's. But for him to be the. You go, well, listen, relative.

Hasan Piker (41:24)

He's.

Laura Rosenberg (41:25)

He's working for Disney now. We have talked about a lot of different things with regard to algorithm hustling. The different people you have associated with, We've had found a lot of similar enemies that we've had. People who've hated me have also hated you. I haven't even met. You've mentioned some. I've left it alone for now. I'll tell you off here. Where do you stand? Speaking of people that I really have come to detest, where do you stand on Bill Maher?

Ebro Darden (41:49)

Oh, oh, I know it.

Hasan Piker (41:53)

I hated Bill Maher for years.

Laura Rosenberg (41:55)

One of the great Islamophobes of all time.

Hasan Piker (41:57)

I know. He is so. Well, it's not even. Just obviously there's that.

Ebro Darden (42:02)

Not so much.

Hasan Piker (42:03)

I mean, he is literally like a, like a Klansman when it comes to Islam. Like it's.

Laura Rosenberg (42:07)

Oh, it's great. Even in his movie called Religious.

Hasan Piker (42:10)

Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (42:10)

Where he just did it for a movie.

Hasan Piker (42:12)

Yeah. But then. But then also he's like one of those guys that's like, weirdly, it's like Sam Harris, these guys were like, well, I'm atheist. But then it's like, oh, it's. But you know, a theocratic state in Israel would probably be fine. It's much better than the uncivilized.

Laura Rosenberg (42:27)

You know, that's his whole.

Hasan Piker (42:28)

Eric Muslims. And it's like, okay, bro, so then you're not a fucking atheist. Like, what do you mean? Like.

Laura Rosenberg (42:32)

Well, he's not. But. But it's. He plays a crazy line. His name's Bill Maher. He doesn't give Jewish. But he is. He is.

Hasan Piker (42:40)

Oh, but he didn't even know he was Jewish.

Laura Rosenberg (42:41)

No, he didn't know he was Jewish.

Hasan Piker (42:42)

I didn't know he was Jewish.

Laura Rosenberg (42:43)

No one. He's not practicing. He's not a Jew.

Hasan Piker (42:45)

He was raised Catholic.

Laura Rosenberg (42:46)

Catholic, correct. But I believe the mom is Jewish. I believe like he's technically Jewish.

Hasan Piker (42:51)

Yeah.

Ebro Darden (42:51)

Down by law.

Laura Rosenberg (42:52)

So he's down by law. He can put. But he's not. But like you can get by his vibe. He's not a Jew.

Hasan Piker (42:57)

And he's. Yeah, he is.

Laura Rosenberg (42:58)

He's not Jewish. Gives no Jewish whatsoever.

Hasan Piker (43:01)

He's not even remotely like self effacing or, Or.

Laura Rosenberg (43:05)

No. None of the things that are built into our DNA. It's not him.

Hasan Piker (43:09)

He gives off such like annoying Christian. Like I would say. I, I would. I wouldn't be surprised if he was wasp. But like I could see him being Catholic too, where he's just like so self important in a way that I think like you. The only Jewish guys that I've seen behave like that are in Israel. You know what I mean?

Laura Rosenberg (43:27)

It's not an American Jewish way like a. Yeah.

Hasan Piker (43:29)

It's not like a western Jewish.

Laura Rosenberg (43:30)

Larry David is our mascot.

Hasan Piker (43:31)

Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (43:32)

You know, that's who we put. That's who we put forward.

Hasan Piker (43:34)

Exactly. I love Larry David. So he also hates Barry Weiss, which is awesome.

Laura Rosenberg (43:38)

Of course, Barry Weiss is a special one.

Hasan Piker (43:40)

Yeah. But Bill Maher I despise.

Laura Rosenberg (43:44)

And would you go on the show?

Hasan Piker (43:46)

Yeah, of course. I mean, I shit on him.

Ebro Darden (43:48)

Bill Maher book it.

Hasan Piker (43:50)

He would never have me on though. These guys don't have me on.

Laura Rosenberg (43:52)

Well, you're very. You're smarter than the average person that they would put across from them to spar with there.

Hasan Piker (43:57)

They won't have me on Tucker Carlson is the same where, like I've through back channels tried to get on to have a conversation with them to address the same points that I have right to be like, what's this about, like, you critical of Israel, but you want to do Israel in America, what's going on? You know, but they, they know that and they know that that's an inherent contradiction that they will never have addressed as long as they position themselves against, like, the Huckabees of the world. And as long as they, you know, have white supremacists or other content creators who are not going to ask them that question, they're fine.

Laura Rosenberg (44:30)

Well, it's back to the controlled opposition thing. They know where to position themselves, so it works for them. And you can remove. You pull that out and you go, well, hold on. You did X, Y, Z and Z, but you're anti Israel all of a sudden. Make it make sense.

Hasan Piker (44:41)

Yeah. So that's not going to happen. Even though I would give him a fair shake, like, I will always. I'm not a very.

Ebro Darden (44:47)

You're not going to scream, suck my dick.

Hasan Piker (44:49)

Yeah. I'm not in person. It takes a lot for me to get to that level, to get to that level of anger. So I'm fairly pleasant in, in normal conversations. But, you know, I, these guys are just still worried for some reason.

Ebro Darden (45:08)

But the other part is. Here's the other part of what I've learned today is you're trying to find solutions.

Hasan Piker (45:13)

Yeah, of course.

Ebro Darden (45:14)

I feel like whether you, whether people agree with you or disagree with you, what I heard in this discourse today is someone who's trying to find solutions and have honest convo about factual incidents that have taken place. Yeah, okay. And people may disagree, whatever, but it sounds solution based to some degree. I don't believe a lot of these individuals.

Laura Rosenberg (45:37)

Professional misunderstanders, bro. Like he said.

Ebro Darden (45:40)

Yeah, well, but, but also just constantly. But also constantly keeping the machine going.

Laura Rosenberg (45:47)

Yes, Right.

Ebro Darden (45:47)

Because if we find solutions, what's the grift?

Laura Rosenberg (45:51)

Yeah, like you didn't like to put a bow on this. We've done enough on Israel. But you have a specific way that you think that could play out and there could be peace. And here is my thought on that. Yeah, no, you don't get a lot of that. Otherwise you get a lot of the noise that no, where's the solution? We could all hope to get to.

Hasan Piker (46:08)

Yeah. And my methods to Achieve that are also very peaceful as well. I mean, I'm in favor of boycott divestments and sanctions like in a manner not dissimilar to what happened in apartheid South Africa. I think that's a very successful way to, to, to force large subsects of Israeli society that still are connected to the West. The ones that do dominate Israeli government are still the Ashkenazi Jews that are very Western focused. There's now obviously the Israeli demographics are changing quite a bit as well. And I think like, there is.

Ebro Darden (46:43)

In what way?

Hasan Piker (46:44)

Oh, the. So Israel is one of the only, like, I guess if you want to call it a developed nation, one of the only developed nations that doesn't have a, that's above replacement rate in its, in its population growth. Very young population. Orthodox Jews, they have a ton of kids. Many of them now live in the west bank as well. A lot of the American Orthodox communities

Laura Rosenberg (47:06)

also go, you did once call them inbred and that was. It sounded like a misstep as well.

Hasan Piker (47:10)

No, a lot of, a lot of people get mad at me for.

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Hasan Piker (47:41)

call every, every, every, like supremacy.

Ebro Darden (47:44)

And by the way, that's not nice.

Hasan Piker (47:46)

No, I know, but, but that's what I always say. I'm like, I, I know it's not nice, I know it's vulgar. But I think it's infinitely worse to support Israel and, and defend Israel than to say like, oh, these, these violent, rabid settlers are inbred.

Laura Rosenberg (48:01)

But you're saying use inbred is a nasty term in general.

Hasan Piker (48:04)

Inbred. I, I use as a, as a, a placeholder for, you know, more vulgar things that I would say about like neo Nazis, hicks, racists in general. Because like, what is, what is the underlying ideology of all supremacists? It's genetic purity.

Laura Rosenberg (48:19)

Right.

Hasan Piker (48:19)

How do you achieve genetic purity through inbreeding.

Laura Rosenberg (48:22)

Right.

Hasan Piker (48:22)

So that's why I think it's like always a good term. But of course people will weaponize that against me to be like, oh, you're saying Jews are inbred? I'M not saying that.

Laura Rosenberg (48:30)

But back to your point, you were saying that because the Orthodox community has so many kids.

Hasan Piker (48:33)

Yeah. The population, the population has exploded and the Haredi population has exploded. This has created a lot of domestic issues in Israel as well. There's the whole point about like, should Haredi serve because they get a religious exemption? They go to religious school, so they don't even serve. Crazy. A lot of liberal Zionists in, in Tel Aviv treat the, the Haredi population, the Orthodox population is like they say, way worse than I do about them.

Laura Rosenberg (48:57)

Well, yeah, imagine how you'd feel if you have to go to the army at 18 and they just get an exemption.

Hasan Piker (49:01)

And on top of that they see him as like, you know, welfare queens basically because they, they get a lot

Ebro Darden (49:06)

of subsidies in America. And a lot of people who live in Tel Aviv are also very much like secular too. Right. So you see these kind of like hyper religious group and you're judgmental and mean to them.

Hasan Piker (49:17)

Oh yeah. And, but the problem is now those forces are growing. What's, what's been fascinating to watch is you have Itamar Benir Otsmayehudit, which is the Jewish Power party, just like white power, by the way. And then you have Bezela Smotrich. These are the two settlers who are like ultra right wing in the current cabinet, in the current administration. Because Bezela Smotrich has tried to justify some of the restraint, which is hilarious to even assume that there was any restraint whatsoever. He has dropped in popularity. And Itamar Ben Givir, that's been going extra hard, has risen in popularity in the process, which is terrifying. And given the demographic changes that are happening, the crisis Israel currently faces is it will no longer be like a western aligned nation at all. It's going to be a nuclear armed, militant, fascist country that is almost entirely comprised of the ultra right wing, ultra Orthodox population whose party representation in the Knesset and the ideological disagreements that they have are not on, like, you know, how hard they killed the Palestinians. They're all in agreement on there with the exception of like my friend Dr. Ofer Kossif and you know, the two, three lone anti Zionist voices in the Knesset, their disagreements are on. Should women be able to read. How much do we let them read like Israel has, because of its ideological fervor and its intense investment in this ethnic cleansing campaign, totally lost sight of continuing a liberal secular country, even for the liberal secular Jews that live there.

Laura Rosenberg (51:05)

And which is the best part of Israel.

Hasan Piker (51:06)

Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (51:07)

Which makes Tel Aviv a vibrant.

Hasan Piker (51:09)

But, but Then. But they're losing sight of that. And I think it's like obviously from the anti Zionist perspective, it's like tough titties like you're. This is a suicidal ideology. You've, you know, made your bed, now lie in it. But, but I think there is a, there's an opportunity to at least like right now, use a more peaceful solution of like maintaining Israel's pariah status so that the more dominant Ashkenazi population, the more dominant. The more dominant political forces recognize that this death and destruction, this ethnic cleansing can't continue and they pull back so that Israel doesn't turn into a nuclear armed state run by Itamar Ben gvir.

Laura Rosenberg (51:54)

And remember Netanyahu said recently that the plan is to not need the US dollars very, very soon. Yeah, that's bullshit probably. But imagine a world where they're discon. Or even if it just goes the other way and we elect good people who distance themselves from Israel. That can make it even scarier that now you don't even have the same level of US Influence.

Hasan Piker (52:12)

I don't think Israel would have any. Israel would not be able to do a single militant action if they weren't attached to America by the hip.

Laura Rosenberg (52:21)

So you don't. So that. That version doesn't exist.

Hasan Piker (52:23)

That's all bullshit.

Laura Rosenberg (52:24)

Got it?

Hasan Piker (52:24)

And that's, that's precisely the reason why you got J Street still trying to maintain some connection in American politics to, to Israel.

Ebro Darden (52:31)

They're very worried about the J Street,

Hasan Piker (52:33)

which is like the, the liberal version, not apac, but it's like the anti apac, but still Israel support Israel lobby. And, and again, that's another point that like a lot of people get frustrated with me because like there's a lot of liberal Zionists who will be like, come on man, like, give us something. And I'm like, no. Like, no, we have to not only put an embargo on Israel, an arms embargo, to follow our laws, to follow international humanitarian laws that they have violated, but we also need to punish Israel. Like we have to hold Israel accountable. It's unbelievable that like that's not even punish.

Ebro Darden (53:09)

We can't even police ourselves.

Hasan Piker (53:11)

No, I, I know. We can't even country.

Ebro Darden (53:14)

Yeah, but we can't even do that here, bro. I think we have no interest in holding Donald Trump accountable. So it seems.

Hasan Piker (53:21)

Oh my God. I know.

Ebro Darden (53:22)

We have zero interest in holding any of the people who have taken part in all of the shenanigans accountable. Yeah, we couldn't even hold people rubbing on the Wall at the Capitol. Accountable.

Laura Rosenberg (53:34)

Yeah. They literally were all free rub.

Hasan Piker (53:36)

Do.

Laura Rosenberg (53:36)

They just intentionally disrespected the entire foundation of our country.

Hasan Piker (53:40)

No, I know. I mean, that was a. Look, I. I thought January 6th was very funny, I will admit. And liberal.

Laura Rosenberg (53:46)

There's some pretty bad parts there.

Hasan Piker (53:47)

Liberals get really mad at me for saying that.

Laura Rosenberg (53:49)

But again, that's because you're doing the same thing.

Hasan Piker (53:50)

No, no, because people died. That so.

Laura Rosenberg (53:52)

You know, people died that day.

Hasan Piker (53:53)

I know, but it was like, an objectively funny event because you had the fattest H vac business owners, some of them flying fucking first class.

Ebro Darden (54:01)

And that's clean. If no one died.

Laura Rosenberg (54:03)

Right. Then we can laugh.

Ebro Darden (54:04)

Here, let me just help you out here with this mainstream thing, because you've been streaming. Once people start losing their lives, we

Laura Rosenberg (54:10)

can't say it's funny.

Ebro Darden (54:12)

You can't lead with funny. Okay, well, like, you know, we could talk now, like. Because I always say, just sit here

Hasan Piker (54:18)

and talk about police brutality against Ashley Babbage habit.

Ebro Darden (54:20)

Okay.

Hasan Piker (54:21)

Like, she was. Sure.

Laura Rosenberg (54:22)

But it's still. It's overall sad. She was that demented and then was killed.

Hasan Piker (54:26)

I agree.

Laura Rosenberg (54:26)

That's sad.

Hasan Piker (54:27)

I agree. But.

Ebro Darden (54:28)

But also, what I guess what I'm saying is, is, like, I, for years, have been screaming, they wipe doo doo on the walls. Yeah, Right. That's my version of going, yo, some wild took place. And it was kind of funny, but I don't use the word funny.

Hasan Piker (54:43)

Okay.

Ebro Darden (54:44)

Right.

Laura Rosenberg (54:45)

But even. That's why he's hotter than us.

Ebro Darden (54:47)

Right. But that. But he's algorithm hustler, I guess.

Hasan Piker (54:49)

Well, I mean, it's just. I think it's a more honest assessment, is what I'm saying.

Ebro Darden (54:55)

I don't.

Hasan Piker (54:55)

I don't have these setbacks. And I know mainstream outlets, when they hear that, they go, what the fuck are you saying? It was like. It was basically 9 11.

Ebro Darden (55:02)

Like, I'm like, well, I'm not going,

Laura Rosenberg (55:04)

well, the 2,000 people. Yeah. That's not. Let's not be crazy. But people did die.

Hasan Piker (55:08)

Yeah.

Laura Rosenberg (55:08)

And it was a horrible moment. But I also see what.

Hasan Piker (55:10)

There's. There's humor in that.

Laura Rosenberg (55:11)

The doodle on the wall, especially because

Hasan Piker (55:13)

the doodle on the walls is funny. But also, it was the most, like, rudderless. Like, they were. They had a direction. They wanted to stop the vote certification, but they didn't get the assurance from Mike Pence. And even if they had gotten that assurance, what the fuck were they thinking? That America was just gonna be like, oh, yeah, we all voted, but I guess you Stopped this symbolic process.

Laura Rosenberg (55:37)

Oh, no, no. So you think the humor for you is just how pathetic the whole operation was? Yeah, it was a pathetic operation being like.

Hasan Piker (55:43)

Like the. The white audacity.

Ebro Darden (55:45)

Yeah, The.

Hasan Piker (55:46)

The idea, if you will. Yeah, the caucasity. The idea that you could just like, roll up to the Capitol and be like, we're stopping the election process altogether. We're still in charge. Like, I love that.

Laura Rosenberg (55:58)

Yeah. Oh, whoops, we didn't pull that off. Let's just go rub doodle on the wall. Yeah.

Hasan Piker (56:01)

And then, of course. Yeah, exactly. Because it was rudderless movement. They just did nothing.

Ebro Darden (56:05)

And I'm like, where did you get the doodle from? So somebody went Duda, I guess, and then scooped. Dude.

Laura Rosenberg (56:11)

Maybe it was the guy with the.

Ebro Darden (56:12)

Or was like, yo, the doodoo's over here.

Laura Rosenberg (56:15)

I don't know.

Ebro Darden (56:17)

Get your doo doo before you head to the hallway.

Hasan Piker (56:19)

Facilitating the doo doo.

Laura Rosenberg (56:21)

Right? We brought it. Here you go.

Hasan Piker (56:23)

Dookie facilitated. But that was funny. And then the other. The other thing that is. Is also incredible is, you know, Trump did this blanket pardon, right? And like, half of the dudes that were released had to either immediately get back, put back in jail, or like, they died in a. In a altercation with cops later on. Because as soon as they got out of prison, there was like, where's my gun? Where is the child pornography?

Laura Rosenberg (56:52)

I'm going right back to my favorite stuff.

Hasan Piker (56:53)

Yeah. They were like, I need to immediately drive to the nearest kindergarten and whip my dick out.

Laura Rosenberg (56:58)

Like, that is the crowd they were pardoning.

Hasan Piker (57:02)

So many of them were just popped for CSAM instantly after. But what was another one that was crazy is there was a guy who had CSAM prior to January 6th in his hard drive, and his argument was, well, the President gave me a blanket pardon. And you wouldn't have found the CSAM in my computer if it wasn't for the J6 investigation. So you shouldn't even arrest me for this. You shouldn't even put me in prison for this.

Ebro Darden (57:29)

That's not a thing.

Laura Rosenberg (57:31)

Bold play, bold strategy cop. Let's see how it plays out.

Hasan Piker (57:34)

Yeah. So again, the audacity is just. Is incredible to watch unfold.

Ebro Darden (57:40)

So question is this.

Hasan Piker (57:42)

We should have punished him. We should have punished every single one of them.

Ebro Darden (57:44)

We're not punishing white people who commit political violence in this country. Like, it's just not happening at a clip. Or even corruption. Like the amount of crypto back door. I mean, the amount of money that's just getting funneled out of the back door. From taxpayers right now is insane, bro.

Hasan Piker (58:05)

Yeah, no, it's unbearable. It's, it's unbelievably frustrating to watch unfold. And I'm always like, what are we doing? Like, nothing. Have to do something.

Ebro Darden (58:12)

No, we're doing nothing.

Hasan Piker (58:12)

But that's the point. If you don't hold anyone in power accountable.

Laura Rosenberg (58:17)

Hebrew's favorite line. If no one goes to jail or loses all their money, everything just happens again.

Hasan Piker (58:21)

Yeah, exactly.

Ebro Darden (58:22)

Been saying this for how long?

Laura Rosenberg (58:24)

Since Trump. Well, since Trump started committing crimes in office.

Ebro Darden (58:27)

So 2018.

Laura Rosenberg (58:28)

Yeah, like 18.

Hasan Piker (58:29)

But that, but that's the point. And, and that is the same principle that I have for Israel as well, which is a foreign state. We have a lot of power over Israel. We have unbelievable influence over Israel. And the greatest evidence for that is the multi billion dollar influence peddling operation that's very sophisticated and very pervasive in American media, in institutions of higher learning, in American politics by way of aipac. And I mean, Mershimer talks about this stuff extensively, obviously, and it's gotten even worse than, than his famous work on the lobby. But, but basically what I'm saying is like, if that didn't exist or if, for example, if Jews were a monolith, right, if they were a monolith and there was this like, organized Jewry in the way that Nick Fuentes presents it, then Jonathan Greenblatt wouldn't be so pissed on converting his nephews and nieces into anti Zionists.

Ebro Darden (59:23)

Right?

Laura Rosenberg (59:23)

But of course it's not like.

Hasan Piker (59:24)

And, and young Jews would not be taking a very different approach to Israel than, than, you know, older Jews are. Right. Like there's this massive generational divide and it even exists amongst.

Ebro Darden (59:35)

Do you think it would be powerful? And we can, we can close right here and. You don't have to answer. And you. We, I think we agree. We'd love to have you back on the program if you have time, of course, recognizing the pain, right when we're speaking specifically about Israel? Because I think you, based on what I heard today, you recognize the pain of black people in America and oppress people around the world. Is there a space to recognize the pain of someone like a Rosenberg who more recently has had to unpack, unplug from this idea of what they thought Israel could have been?

Laura Rosenberg (60:14)

I mean, I've been unpacking for 10, 15 years, but it's time.

Ebro Darden (60:18)

But your dad, your dad was before you. You.

Laura Rosenberg (60:20)

My dad's been on. My dad went from being a part of APAC to unpacking for the last 25 years. Yeah, it takes a long. But it was his whole life.

Ebro Darden (60:27)

But, but. And, and I know there's somebody watching this, like, shut the up, Ebro. That's not painful, but it is hearing.

Hasan Piker (60:34)

I understand it. I, I believe in rehabilitation, both in the criminal justice system and rehabilitation in, in. In our lives as well, for, like, previous thought crimes that we might have committed or bad opinions that we had or bad behavior we demonstrated. If I didn't believe in it, I wouldn't be advocating for the things that I'm advocating for. If I thought that people were these, like, unchanging forces, if there was like a concept of good and evil in the world and, and they were, you know, some people were objectively good and they'll always be good, some people are objectively bad and always be bad, then I wouldn't try to convert people, right? I wouldn't try to explain my position to them. I would just say, all right, you're my fucking enemy. Fuck you. Right? So of course I believe that. And of course a part of that is to also understand the social conditioning that takes place. I've worked with people like Simone Zimmerman, who wrote the Israeli Israelism documentary. And I think, like, that was very formative. Having her on the stream, having her on the broadcast. And like, that was very good for a lot of younger Jewish fans that I have that, that there is a. A space for them where I'm not like, automatically saying like, you are the devil if you've had any positive associations with Israel, because I understand that. Just like I understand where people are coming from with, with. With even white supremacist attitudes that they might have had, like the, the residual white supremacist blind spots that they have that, that end up rearing their head in, in their decision making because America is in its foundation of white supremacist country. This is very frustrating for Republicans to hear. This is even frustrating for liberals to hear sometimes. But it's just the truth, right? And so my assessment always is, yeah, there's gonna be some things that people say that are going to be objectively heinous, some implicit biases that they have. But I don't treat people that have those implicit biases as, like, permanent villains. I try to talk to them coming from a place of understanding and try to identify exactly how they arrived at that conclusion and then change their mindset and to hopefully help heal in that process and to ensure that they don't fall into those same traps again. So one of the things I always ask people in my Community is like, look, your mind has changed now. You should identify what the hangups were that stopped you from seeing the world in the way that you do now. Especially with the case of Israel, Palestine, where this has been a dramatic sea change for so many people. So that next time something happens and you're rushing back into the mainstream opinion, you should really reconsider. Like, was this social conditioning? Was I duped? Is there an alternative perspective here? I love Amy Goodman. One of the things that, I mean, she's been an inspirational figure in my life. Very fortunate to have been able to call her, appear at times. One of the things she always says is you have to put a microphone to the people who are under the bombs, to the people who are in the crosshairs. And that's precisely what I try to do in my commentary as well. Offer a voice to the voiceless. Which is very frustrating for, you know, people who are doing propaganda for the State Department, people who are behaving like stenographers rather than journalists, because their goal is to just say, no. Those guys are voiceless for a good reason. They don't need to be heard from. They're all a part of this barbaric entity that must be dominated by force and will prop up certain groups that will identify and vilify. Hamas, Hezbollah, these are, you know, state designated terror organizations. And we will disparage their movement. We'll disparage the entirety of the Palestinian resistance movement because we can't really disparage the underlying ideology that people have a just and honest emancipatory need.

Ebro Darden (64:30)

Hasan Piker.

Laura Rosenberg (64:32)

Yeah, this is. This is great, man. Thank you so much for making this time. Good luck on this journey that you're on.

Hasan Piker (64:37)

Thank you for having me.

Laura Rosenberg (64:38)

Good stuff, man.

Ebro Darden (64:39)

We'll hopefully have you back, man.

Hasan Piker (64:40)

Of course,

Ebro Darden (64:51)

Don't call it a podcast.

Hasan Piker (64:53)

It.