106. Maple Syrup

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Economics of Everyday Things – "Maple Syrup" (Episode 106)

Host: Zachary Crockett, Freakonomics Network
Air Date: September 15, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, host Zachary Crockett explores the economics, history, and culture of maple syrup through the eyes of the Marvin family, who run Butternut Mountain Farm in Vermont. The discussion dives into the complexity of maple syrup production, shifting market forces, the role of Canadian supply, changing climate patterns, and why maple syrup remains a beloved—if pricey—luxury.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural and Historic Roots of Maple Syrup

• Emma Marvin, co-CEO of Butternut Mountain Farm, describes syrupmaking as a generational tradition deeply tied to the land.
  • "There is a temporal connection...my dad was here 25 years ago. My grandfather might have visited this tree. Maple syrup is the embodiment of a cultural practice in the Northeast that dates back centuries." (01:35)
• Early North American Indigenous peoples pioneered the process, using stone tools to extract sap and create hard sugar through freezing and boiling.
  • "Indigenous people in North America used stone tools to gash the trunks of trees and concentrated sap into hard chunks of sugar." (03:59)
• By the 19th century, maple sugar was marketed as an alternative to slave-produced cane sugar, making it an important American product.
  • "From the Revolutionary War through the Civil War, Vermont maple sugar was positioned as an American-made product that could reduce the US's dependence on Caribbean cane sugar produced by slaves." (04:49)

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2. Production Process — From Tree to Table

• Tapping maple trees: 40 years to reach maturity; can be tapped for centuries.
  • "It takes about 40 years for a tree to become a size where we feel comfortable tapping it." (07:50)
  • "And how long can a tree be tapped?"
  • "Hundreds of years." (08:27)
• Geographic constraints: Only possible in the northeastern US and eastern Canada.
  • "Maple syrup is only produced in the geographies of the northeastern US and eastern Canada...north through New England into Quebec and New Brunswick." (06:42)
• Collection evolution: From buckets and horses to a vast tubing network with pressure gauges—up to 100 miles of tubing on a single farm.
  • "Historically, it was sap collected in a bucket...today, almost universally, maple sap is collected using a system of tubing." (09:00)
  • "A hundred miles of tubing is not an exaggeration." (09:33)
• Reverse osmosis: Technological advances like reverse osmosis dramatically increased efficiency, reducing boiling time and energy costs.
  • "In the mid-70s, I came on this idea of using reverse osmosis, and it was almost an epiphany." —David Marvin (11:08)
• 40:1 ratio: It takes about 40 gallons of sap to make 1 gallon of syrup. (12:19)
• Color and flavor spectrum: Varies from golden delicate (subtle, vanillin, buttery) to dark robust (earthy, caramel) and strong dark (~Grade B: deep brown, earthy, brown sugar notes). Usage varies from cocktails to baking.
  • "Early in the season...lighter colors, more delicate flavors...as the season progresses...darker colors, stronger flavors." (12:34)

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3. Economics and Market Dynamics

• High cost: Pure maple syrup about five times more expensive than table syrup/pancake syrup.
  • "A gallon of Butternut Mountain Farm's grade A maple syrup is around five times more expensive..." (03:17)
  • "When people have made the commitment to try the real thing, 99 out of 100 will say, 'This is really amazing and I'm not going back.'" (03:33)
• US market: Vermont produced about $95 million of syrup in 2024; retail price around $58/gallon, wholesale $42, bulk $28—prices have risen.
  • "The retail price for a gallon of Vermont Maple syrup in 2024 was about $58." (21:41)
• Canadian dominance: Canada provides 73% of global supply, with Quebec heavily regulating production and pricing, effectively setting a price floor via quotas and reserves.
  • "In Quebec, there is a quasi-governmental entity...to set prices, maintain a quota, and also maintain a reserve." (22:09)
• Supply chain and distribution: Butternut Mountain Farm acts as a distributor for smaller farms, buying bulk syrup, storing, bottling, and marketing, which involves significant inventory and risk.
  • "We purchase the syrup in bulk in drums from the farms...store it and then we bottle it and then we sell it to our customers." (19:38)

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4. Agricultural Complexity and Environmental Uncertainty

• Volatility: Unpredictable production due to weather and shifting climate patterns (seasons starting earlier, more violent storms, loss of species diversity).
  • "As producers, none of us have any real indicator of what crop yields are going to be in any given season...I'll tell you when it's over." —Emma Marvin (15:11)
  • "It's starting earlier and ending earlier. We are seeing loss of tree species, less diversity, and that is a real threat for the industry." (23:38)
• Comparison to timber: Sugaring provides yearly yields, whereas harvesting timber takes decades for each payout.
  • "If I cut my maplewoods, I get a check every 25 years. If I sugar, I get a check every year." (21:12)

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5. Consumer Preferences and Cultural Value

• Real vs. table syrup confusion: Most US consumers use "pancake syrup" (corn syrup-based), often not realizing the difference.
  • "One of the biggest challenges the maple industry has had is that most consumers don't understand the difference between maple syrup and pancake syrup." (24:31)
• Changing minds: Once people try real maple syrup, most don't go back—even if it’s more expensive.
  • "The silver lining for us is we have people who chose to try the real thing, and they're not going back to artificial." (25:19)
• Maple syrup as daily staple: For producers like the Marvins, maple syrup is more than a luxury—it’s a kitchen essential (coffee, salad dressings, marinades, pasta sauces, etc.), with only avocado seen as a poor pairing!
  • "I think about maple syrup every day. It goes into my coffee in the morning. Salad dressings, marinades, pasta sauces...Maple is good with just about everything. I think the only thing I've not really been super fond of as a pairing with maple is maybe avocado." (25:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the generational magic of maple syrup:
  • "Maple syrup is sunlight captured by a plant...creation of this product has so much additional value beyond the product itself." —Emma Marvin (02:19)
• On the unpredictability of “sugaring” season:
  • "When people ask me what's the season going to be like, I often laugh and say, like, I'll tell you when it's over." —Emma Marvin (15:11)
• How the industry shifted from timber to syrup:
  • "Land that was in timber production...has been sold by the timber industry directly to producers...maple producers have been buying land and continue to buy land pretty aggressively." (20:44)
• On flavor defects (the “Buddy Sap”):
  • "If you ever have an opportunity to taste or smell it, you'll know, but it is often characterized as maybe chocolatey or could be like locker room." —Emma Marvin (14:17)
• On terminology:
  • "I think I just realized I've been saying the word syrup wrong my whole life. Like I say syrup and it sounds like you say syrup." —Zachary Crockett
  • "I do say syrup, although my mind has been polluted now that you've said it the other way." —Emma Marvin (26:59)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Personal and generational connection (01:35)
• What is (and isn’t) maple syrup? (03:03)
• Early history—Indigenous methods and American adoption (03:59-05:55)
• Modern production process: tapping, tubing, reverse osmosis (06:42-13:25)
• Grading, flavors, and 'Buddy' sap (12:34-14:31)
• Economic uncertainty and climate change (15:11, 23:28)
• Canadian dominance and tariffs (22:09)
• Market pricing, bulk vs. retail (21:41)
• Timberland conversion and economics (20:44, 21:12)
• Consumer confusion and real vs. fake syrup (24:31-25:19)
• Creative uses and daily consumption (25:44)

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Conclusion

Maple syrup is a product with deep historical roots and significant cultural and economic complexity. The Marvins' story reveals a world where tradition, technology, environmental change, and global economics collide—yielding a product that, while expensive and challenging to produce, is powerfully beloved by those who taste the real thing. The episode captures both the nostalgia and science behind sugaring, the industry’s resilience, and the everyday joys found in something as simple as a sweet pour.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

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[Zachary Crockett]

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[Zachary Crockett]

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[Emma Marvin]

There are places where you stand and the realization sort of flows over you that I was here five years ago, my dad was here 25 years ago. Maybe my grandfather might have visited this tree. That there is a temporal connection. That's really different with this kind of work. Maple syrup is the embodiment of a cultural practice in the Northeast that dates back centuries.

[Zachary Crockett]

Marvin is the co CEO of Butternut Mountain Farm, a maple syrup company that she runs with her brother, and for her, the sweet, sticky golden brown liquid is more than just a breakfast topping.

[Emma Marvin]

Maple syrup is sunlight captured by a plant. We're harvesting a tiny bit of the stored carbon from the tree and everything else stays intact. The way maple syrup production works, there is economic incentive to be great stewards of the Northern forest. Creation of this product has so much additional value beyond the product itself.

[Zachary Crockett]

Maple syrup is the end result of a long process that starts with the SAP of maple trees. What it's not is table syrup, the stuff made by brands like log cabin and Mrs. Butterworth's, which contain corn syrup.

[Emma Marvin]

And preservatives to be called maple syrup. It can only contain the SAP of the maple tree. That's it. There is nothing except a lot of effort added to maple syrup.

[Zachary Crockett]

But all of that effort makes for a pricey product. A gallon of Butternut Mountain Farm's grade A maple syrup is around five times more expensive than a gallon of Mrs. Butterworth's. So is it worth is hard to.

[Narrator/Host]

Convert people from the less expensive table syrups or pancake syrups to pure maple. Cost is a big factor. But when people have made the commit and to try the real thing, 99 out of 100 will say, this is really amazing and I'm not going back. Those small luxuries are for those of us who can have them, really an important part of life to me.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the Freakonomics Radio Network, this is the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. Today, maple syrup. Maple syrup producers often call themselves sugar farmers. In the simplest terms, they collect SAP from maple trees and reduce it to sugar. It's a tradition that goes back thousands of years. Indigenous people in North America used stone tools to gash the trunks of trees and concentrated SAP into hard chunks of sugar through rounds of freezing or boiling.

[Narrator/Host]

For most of the time that Europeans have been here, it was a less expensive sugar than say, cane sugar.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's David Marvin, Emma's father and the founder of Butternut Mountain Farm.

[Narrator/Host]

It was something that could be homemade.

[Zachary Crockett]

From the Revolutionary War through the Civil War, Vermont maple sugar was positioned as an American made product that could reduce the US's dependence on Caribbean cane sugar produced by slaves. By the end of the 19th century, Vermont farmers were producing 14 million pounds of maple sugar. In the decades after the Civil War, the price of cane sugar dropped and maple sugar makers shifted their output to syrup. But making it was a laborious process. It involved boiling down SAP for long hours over an open fire to reach the right density. And for many years it remained a niche product.

[Narrator/Host]

Fifty plus years ago, the maple industry was just a marginal, almost inconsequential part of farming. It had been a way for hill farmers to make some money, either to pay off the grain bill from the winter or to buy seed and fertilizer to get started in the spring. And it wasn't really an industry in any way.

[Zachary Crockett]

When David started Butternut mountain farm in 1972, producing maple syrup as a standalone product was a novel and to many crazy idea. But technical advances eventually lowered the energy costs and shortened the time required to produce maple syrup, helping to rebound the industry.

[Narrator/Host]

It seemed to me like, wow, I could just go to the woods with a little bit of capital and some energy and labor and come out with a really valuable product.

[Zachary Crockett]

Today, maple syrup is a small but mighty industry. Global production in 2024 was around 25 million gallons, enough to fill 38 Olympic sized swimming pools and pretty Much all of that comes from North America. Here's Emma Marvin.

[Emma Marvin]

Maple syrup is only produced in the geographies of the northeastern US and eastern Canada, as far west as Minnesota and Wisconsin, as far south as Virginia and Kentucky, and then north through New England into Quebec and New Brunswick.

[Zachary Crockett]

Canada has a stronghold on the maple syrup industry, producing 73% of the world's supply. Most of the rest comes from the northeastern US in particular Vermont, which makes around $95 million worth of the stuff every year. There's a reason for this geographic specificity. Syrup comes primarily from the SAP of sugar water, black and red maple trees, which naturally grow in this region. On its Property In Johnson, Vermont, Butternut Mountain Farm has more than 30,000 of them. In a process called tapping, small holes are drilled into the trunk and plastic spouts are inserted to collect SAP. It's labor intensive work.

[Emma Marvin]

We're going out and visiting 30,000 trees on the slope of a mountain. There may be a couple of inches of snow, but much more likely a couple of feet of snow. Snow machines, four wheelers make getting into the woods a little bit easier, but ultimately we're putting snowshoes on our feet and trekking from tree to tree. It takes about 40 years for a tree to become a size where we feel comfortable tapping it.

[Zachary Crockett]

And how long can a tree be tapped?

[Emma Marvin]

Hundreds of years.

[Zachary Crockett]

This SAP has to be collected during a window in the winter and early spring, when the nights are freezing and the days are moderately warm. For sugar makers in Vermont, the sweet spot tends to run from February through late April or early May.

[Emma Marvin]

It is that freeze thaw that creates the pressure dynamic within the tree that allows SAP movement.

[Zachary Crockett]

The SAP flows through the taps into a complex collection system.

[Emma Marvin]

Historically, it was SAP collected in a bucket, maybe gathered with horses. Today, almost universally, maple SAP is collected using a system of tubing. So pipeline that connects the trees to tanks or directly to a sugarhouse, where we're making that transformation from SAP to syrup happen.

[Zachary Crockett]

There's like a system of tubes connected to these trees that all sort of like run into a central vat or something.

[Emma Marvin]

A hundred miles of tubing is not an exaggeration.

[Zachary Crockett]

Probably this immense tubing network is controlled by a system of pressure gauges to ensure that the SAP can flow as long as possible. Emma's grandfather, James Marvin, was a researcher who studied the mechanism of SAP flow in sugar maple trees. It was his work that led to the development of these systems.

[Emma Marvin]

A SAP run can be anything from a slow drip to a gusher.

[Zachary Crockett]

Wow, that must be exciting to See, Yeah, it is.

[Emma Marvin]

It can also be a little daunting. Maple SAP is highly perishable, and so when the SAP is flowing, you've gotta be ready to go.

[Zachary Crockett]

SAP is mostly water, and that water needs to be removed to concentrate SAP into syrup. That takes place in a building called a sugar house.

[Emma Marvin]

You can't make maple syrup without heat. That is what develops the characteristic color and flavor compounds.

[Zachary Crockett]

In the 1970s, syrup makers began using reverse osmosis to concentrate their SAP quickly. The SAP is forced into a semi permeable membrane that only allows water molecules to pass through, isolating SAP with a higher sugar concentration. It allows sugar makers to cut their boiling time down significantly. Before reverse osmosis was introduced, David Martin tried planting trees with higher sugar content in their SAP.

[Narrator/Host]

My dad and I planted trees back in the 1960s. The real interest in planting trees back in the 60s and 70s was in using sweeter genetic stock in order to make syrup more affordably. But then in the mid-70s, I came on this idea of using reverse osmosis, and it was almost an epiphany. I needed to just use the healthiest trees in the wild forest as our producer because we could take that 2% tree and turn it into a 20% SAP yield.

[Zachary Crockett]

This highly concentrated sugar SAP is then boiled down further in an evaporator. The key is getting maple syrup to the correct density. Too light and it'll ferment. Too dense, and the sugar will crystallize.

[Emma Marvin]

What it is is a series of pans that are over heat. So think of it as a maze that the SAP might go through, a series of flues where the thinner SAP pushes the thinner, thickening SAP through to a point where it's ready to be drawn off at that density of maple syrup.

[Zachary Crockett]

When all is said and done, it takes around 40 gallons of SAP to make 1 gallon of maple syrup. And the final product comes in a spectrum of colors, each with a different flavor profile.

[Emma Marvin]

Typically, early in the season, we tend to see lighter colors, more delicate flavors produced when the weather is colder. As the season progresses and the daytime temperatures get warmer, we tend to see darker colors, stronger flavors in the syrup that's being produced.

[Zachary Crockett]

In 2013, the International Maple Syrup Institute created new internationally recognized standards to sell the product.

[Emma Marvin]

You've got golden delicate at the lightest end of the spectrum. It is subtly flavored, has vanillin, is buttery. The next category would be amber rich, dark, robust, has a more earthy caramel flavor profile to it.

[Zachary Crockett]

There's also very strong dark, which can be anywhere from a deep brown to almost black in color. It has a very earthy taste with hints of brown sugar. Syrup classes are used in different ways. Golden for a cocktail, amber for pancakes, and the darker ones for baking. Any syrup that doesn't meet these Grade A standards for color, clarity, density and flavor is called processing grade.

[Emma Marvin]

If syrup has some kind of flavor defect, like a sour flavor, it goes into this category called processing grade, where it's really great as an ingredient but probably would be an unhappy surprise on your pancakes in the morning.

[Zachary Crockett]

This includes so called Buddy SAP, which is SAP collected late in the season when maple trees begin to bud.

[Emma Marvin]

If you ever have an opportunity to taste or smell it, you'll know, but it is often characterized as maybe chocolatey or could be like locker room.

[Zachary Crockett]

Locker room and chocolatey are two very different things.

[Emma Marvin]

Spectrum. You can't miss it when it's happening.

[Zachary Crockett]

Across the industry, different grades of maple syrup often carry different prices, with the lightest and rarest golden syrups usually commanding top dollar. Butternut Mountain Farm charges $69 per gallon for their top three grade A syrups, about $10 more than the average Vermont maple syrup. But for the Marvin family, it can be hard to predict the financial outcome of all this labor in any given year. Like other agricultural work, the maple syrup business is rife with uncertainty.

[Emma Marvin]

As producers, none of us have any real indicator of what crop yields are going to be in any given season. When people ask me what's the season going to be like, I often laugh and say, like, I'll tell you when it's over.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's coming up. The Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by LinkedIn. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B ROAS of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. No strings attached. Just go to LinkedIn.com economics that's LinkedIn.com economics. Terms and conditions apply. The Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by Shopify. Starting a business is a dream many share, but for some it stays just that doubt creeps in. What if the skills aren't there? What if it's too much to handle alone? Well with Shopify, what if becomes why not? Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US. Can't design a website? No worries, just choose from one of Shopify's beautiful ready to go templates that match your brand style. Plus get help with everyday tasks like enhancing product images, writing product descriptions or generating discount codes with Shopify's AI tools created for commerce. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always round to help with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. Turn those dreams into dollars and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com everyday things go to shopify.com everyday things shopify.com everydaythings the economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by Indeed. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed with Sponsored Jobs. Your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can stand out and reach the people you want faster. There are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts and you only pay for results. Join the 3.5 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility at indeed.comeverydaythings just go to indeed.comeverydaythings right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com everyday things terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. For the first 30 years of running Butternut Mountain Farm, David Marvin relied on other forms of income. He raised and sold Christmas trees in the off season to supplement his maple syrup sales. Today, the business has diversified in other ways. The Marvin's operate a retail shop, Marvin's Country Store, where they sell maple syrup and other maple products under their own brand. They also provide forest management services to other sugar makers who might need help caring for their trees. But the majority of their revenue comes from serving as a distributor for smaller maple farms.

[Narrator/Host]

So the way it works is we purchase the syrup in bulk in drums from the farms we work with, we store it and then we bottle it and then we sell it to our customers who are mostly intermediary to the consumer. They cover the gamut from mass market and grocery to mail order, industrial markets, all of that. It's not a good business model because we buy all this inventory or commit to buy it in the spring, and we market it over the next 12 months until the next crop year. So we have a big cost of holding inventory.

[Zachary Crockett]

For smaller farms, selling syrup to Butternut Mountain farm is a better option than competing in the broader market. Selling maple syrup can be a game of volume.

[Narrator/Host]

You need a large enough tract of land to be economical today.

[Zachary Crockett]

In recent years, some farms have used a downturn in the New England timber industry as an opportunity to expand their footprint.

[Narrator/Host]

Land that was in timber production, a lot of it, has been sold by the timber industry industry directly to producers. The returns to farming in maple have been strong enough that maple producers have been buying land and continue to, to this day, pretty aggressively.

[Zachary Crockett]

When you think about sugaring as sort of like a cost per acre enterprise, would you say it favorably stacks up to other forms of farming?

[Narrator/Host]

It does. It's not maybe as high as corn or potatoes, but it's pretty high. Off the top of my head, I would say we can generate maybe 2, $150 per acre of gross income. That's the syrup value from each acre, and it's a sustained yield compared to timber. You know, if I cut my maplewoods, I get a check every 25 years. If I sugar, I get a check every year.

[Zachary Crockett]

In the U.S. maple syrup prices are tracked by the United States Department of Agriculture. The retail price for a gallon of Vermont Maple syrup in 2024 was about $58. The wholesale price was around $42. And at the lowest end, larger bulk volumes sell at a rate of $28. All of these prices are up from the previous year. Again, here's David's daughter, Emma Marvin.

[Emma Marvin]

In Quebec, there is a quasi governmental entity that represents the producers in the province, and that entity has authority to set prices, maintain a quota, and also maintain a reserve. That, coupled with the fact that Quebec produces most of the world's supply, sets a relative floor or really sets the landscape for what pricing looks like for maple syrup.

[Zachary Crockett]

Obviously, there's been a lot of focus on Canada lately with the tariffs. Is there any speculation that tariffs might lead to more US Production or have any kind of impact on businesses like yours?

[Emma Marvin]

Has there been any speculation? I mean. Yes. Is there anything definitive or concrete? No. Maple is complicated. 70% of the world's supply comes from Canada. 60% of that flows into the U.S. does a changing economic and trade landscape have the potential to have radical impacts here? Absolutely. What are they? That's much harder to understand, particularly in a volatile environment like this.

[Zachary Crockett]

And the physical environment is just as volatile as the climate changes. It's increasing the unpredictability of SAP yields each season.

[Emma Marvin]

Undoubtedly, maple syrup is going to continue to exist into the future, but we're seeing changes over decades and decades in terms of when the sugaring season is starting. It's starting earlier and ending earlier. We are seeing loss of tree species, less diversity, and that is a real threat for the industry.

[Narrator/Host]

What worries me is the violent storms and potential wind impacts. So we've had a number of hurricanes here in Vermont in the last 20 years.

[Zachary Crockett]

Another threat to the maple syrup business is the rise of table syrup, a competing product on store shelves made from corn syrup, it was designed to mimic the flavor of real maple syrup.

[Emma Marvin]

One of the biggest challenges the maple industry has had is that most consumers don't understand the difference between maple syrup and pancake syrup. Most people are maybe having maple syrup at a special breakfast once a month on the weekends. That kind of interaction with pure maple syrup doesn't leave a lot of opportunity for folks to think about the product.

[Zachary Crockett]

A 2015 consumer survey found that 70% of Americans preferred table syrup to the real stuff. Producers have had to convince the public that maple is worth a hefty price premium, and that battle is waged one customer at a time.

[Narrator/Host]

The silver lining for us is we have people who chose to try the real thing, and they're not going back to artificial. They may not eat maple seven days a week, but they will make it their enjoyment.

[Zachary Crockett]

But for the Marvins, maple syrup isn't just for special occasions. It's a part of everyday life, both out in the forest and in the kitchen.

[Emma Marvin]

I think about maple syrup every day. It goes into my coffee in the morning. Salad dressings, marinades, pasta sauces. Maple with Asian flavor pairings is phenomenal. Maple is good with just about everything. I think the only thing I've not really been super fond of as a pairing with maple is maybe avocado.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the economics of everyday things, I'm Zachary Crockett. This episode was produced by Morgan Levy and Sarah Lilly and mixed by Jeremy Johnston. We had help from Daniel Moritz Rapid, and thanks to Shane Kirkland, Paul Ely, Miles Quillen and Eric park for suggesting this topic. If you have an idea for an episode, feel free to email us@everyday thingsreakonomics.com Our inbox is always open. All right, until next week. I think I just realized I've been saying the word syrup wrong. My whole life. Like I say syrup and it sounds like you say syrup.

[Emma Marvin]

I do say syrup, although my mind has been polluted now that you've said it the other way.

[Zachary Crockett]

The Freakonomics Radio Network the hidden side of everything.

[Emma Marvin]

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