11. Cashmere

Summary

The Economics of Everyday Things, Episode 11: Cashmere

Host: Zachary Crockett (Freakonomics Network)
Date: February 5, 2026

---

Overview

This episode dives into the hidden world of cashmere—a luxury material most closely associated with high-end sweaters, but deeply entwined with the economies, landscapes, and cultures of Mongolia and China. Host Zachary Crockett explores the journey of cashmere from nomadic herders in the Mongolian steppe to boutiques in New York, illuminating the surprising economics, environmental costs, and changing standards of this now-commoditized good.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Mongolian Origin of Cashmere

• Mongolia’s Goat Population and Economic Role

  • Mongolia is home to 27 million goats—eight times the number of people—whose cashmere undercoat has become a mainstay of the country’s economy.
  • Cashmere is collected once per year in spring; an average goat yields about 250 grams annually, worth around $10.
  • Quote: “Cashmere is a primary income source for herders, but also an important pillar of the country's economy.” – Miyagmarjav Miga, [02:42]

• Nomadic Herding Lifestyle

  • Mongolian herders are nomads, moving hundreds of miles in search of pasture.
  • Herding includes collecting cashmere in spring; goats are often slaughtered for meat in late fall.
  • Quote: “They are land connected people... They always go seeking for better pasture for their animals.” – Miyagmarjav Miga, [05:43]

• Post-1990 Economic Shift

  • After Mongolia’s transition from communism to democracy in 1990, goat herding became privatized, and the population of goats exploded.

Cashmere’s Luxury Status and Global Expansion

• Luxury to Mass Market

  • Cashmere has shifted from an exclusive good (think $2,000 Loro Piana turtlenecks) to everyday wardrobe staple (with brands like Quince and Everlane offering sweaters for $60).
  • Quote: “In the 2000s, there was a lot more democratized cashmere... that's when we really started to see that everyone wanted a cashmere sweater.” – Carolyn Yim, [04:02]

• Cashmere Production & Quality

  • Most raw cashmere flows from Mongolian herders to Chinese traders, who sell it to mills—often at a significant markup.
  • Only 20% of Mongolian cashmere is processed locally; the majority is exported, which Miga laments as a missed opportunity for local economic benefit.
  • Quote: “Mongolia doesn't fully benefit from the Kashmir industry because of this insufficient processing capacity in the country.” – Miyagmarjav Miga, [08:15]

The Making of a Cashmere Sweater

• Processing Techniques and Yield

  • After combing, raw cashmere is carded and spun into yarn; the final product is about half the mass of the starting fiber.
  • It takes the undercoat of 5–6 goats to make one sweater.
  • Quote: “At the end of the production cycle, each sweater takes about one pound of yarn... about five or six goats for one sweater.” – Carolyn Yim, [10:56]

• Assessing Quality

  • High-end cashmere is prized for its softness and fiber length/width (gold standard: pure white, 14 microns wide, 36mm long).
  • Quote: “A really good cashmere sweater will feel peachy or creamy plush, whereas a bad cashmere sweater is dry, cardboardy, papery thin.” – Carolyn Yim, [11:38]

• Mass Production & Corner Cutting

  • Lower-price brands keep costs down with inferior blends, using coarser body hair or chemical bleaching.
  • “The luxury cashmere sweater today is not the same as what it was 20 years ago.” – Carolyn Yim, [12:31]

Environmental Consequences and Sustainability Challenges

• Overgrazing & Land Degradation

  • To meet global demand, Mongolia’s goat population jumped from 5 million to 27 million, intensifying overgrazing and damaging 70% of grasslands.
  • Goats’ eating habits and hooves exacerbate soil erosion and prevent plant regrowth.

• Response Measures

  • Mongolia has implemented livestock taxes to fund revegetation, but infrastructure and processing limitations persist.
  • Chinese government confines herding to corrals to limit roaming and degradation.

• Climate Change Pressure

  • Mongolia faces desertification, rising temperatures, and reduced rainfall—worsening the sustainability crisis.

• Factory Sustainability Costs

  • Modern environmental regulations are pricing small and medium Chinese knitwear makers out of the market.
  • Quote: “I do not have the hubris to claim I have 100% sustainability because it's completely impossible.” – Carolyn Yim, [15:11]

The Future of Cashmere

• Declining Quality & Ongoing Challenges

  • Median cashmere fiber width is increasing—a sign of lower quality due to breeding for volume.
  • Quote: “I'm unable to find the quality that we had 20 years ago... You can't just increase yield of goat hair so quickly to meet up with demand.” – Carolyn Yim, [15:28]

• Cultural Importance and Hopes

  • Amidst environmental and economic turmoil, cashmere production remains central to Mongolian identity.
  • Quote: “This nomadic way of herding practice has been in the country hundreds, hundreds of years... The country has to control in terms of impact, environmental impact, social impact, and also economic impact for that commodity. That's a lot of challenges.” – Miyagmarjav Miga, [16:13]

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "Some people say it's like a baby butt." (Miyagmarjav Miga on touching raw cashmere, [02:15])
• "In the 2000s, there was a lot more democratized cashmere... that's when we really started to see that everyone wanted a cashmere sweater." (Carolyn Yim, [04:02])
• "If you're just measuring grams, it's about five or six goats for one sweater." (Carolyn Yim, [10:56])
• "I do not have the hubris to claim I have 100% sustainability because it's completely impossible." (Carolyn Yim, [15:11])
• "These are prickly issues for something as soft as a baby's butt." (Zachary Crockett, [15:49])
• "It's a part of the country's identity." (Miyagmarjav Miga, [15:49])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:09]: Opening and Mongolian setting
• [02:15]: What makes cashmere so special
• [04:02]: History of luxury and democratization
• [05:18]: The life of modern Mongolian goat herders
• [07:10]: The economics for a Mongolian herder family
• [08:15]: Why Mongolia doesn’t capture more value
• [09:49]: The technical process from fiber to yarn
• [10:56]: Number of goats per sweater
• [12:31]: Compromises in quality with mass production
• [12:59]: Ecological damage from goat overpopulation
• [14:00]: China’s confinement solutions
• [15:11]: Cost/environmental pressures on factories
• [15:28]: Declining fiber quality and increasing yield
• [16:13]: Cashmere’s cultural meaning for Mongolia

---

Tone and Final Thoughts

The episode is engaging and vivid, blending economic facts with on-the-ground voices and a sense of quiet urgency about sustainability. Both the host and guests maintain a matter-of-fact but empathetic tone—balancing appreciation for cashmere’s luxury with a clear-eyed look at the costs of globalization and climate pressure.

---

For listeners unfamiliar with the world of cashmere, this episode provides a concise and compelling primer—rich with memorable detail, candid expert insight, and a subtle weathered humor that makes economic complexity feel human and accessible.

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator 1]

You're juggling a lot, but you can still squeeze in a financial plan with the Northwestern Mutual financial advisor as your partner. It's not only possible, it's personalized. So if you're tying the knot, closing on a house or welcoming a little one, you'll be ready for whatever life tosses your way. It's the right time to feel less stressed and more certain. That's a better way to money. Let's get [e-mail] the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

[Commercial Narrator 2]

Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit Stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit.

[Zachary Crockett]

Take a trip to the Gobi Desert region of southern Mongolia and you'll see vast expanses of arid land.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

Endless. It's endless open space.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's Miyagmarjav Miga for short. She spoke to us from Mongolia's capital, Ulaanbaatar.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

You can see sunset. It's just like you watching sunset in the ocean. You can see the sand dunes and the camels. Birds.

[Zachary Crockett]

You can see something else too. Goats. Lots and lots of goats. The country is home to around 27 million of them. They outnumber people eight to one. These goats are critically important to the Mongolian economy and to the apparel industry. That's because once a year they produce a substantial share of the world's cashmere.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

When you touch it, it's very soft. Some people say it's like a baby butt.

[Zachary Crockett]

It used to be that you could only find cashmere in high end clothes like a $2,000 Loro Piana turtleneck. Today it's everywhere, direct to consumer companies like Quince and Everlane sell $60 cashmere sweaters by the truckload. That's good news for the folks in Mongolia who make a living raising goats.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

Cashmere is a primary income source for herders, but also an important pillar of the country's economy.

[Zachary Crockett]

But it's come at a cost. For the Freakonomics radio network, this is the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. Today, cashmere. If you are a goat in Central Asia, every winter you grow a second coat of hair underneath your outer coat. It's soft, it's fluffy, and it's around six times finer than human hair. This wool is called cashmere.

[Carolyn Yim]

The softness is on the belly and the little areas under the arms and the chin.

[Zachary Crockett]

Carolyn Yim runs Plyknits, a boutique knitwear company based in New York and Hong Kong. Her family has been in the textile business for three generations.

[Carolyn Yim]

I think the reason it's so prized is because it's beyond a functional product. It is a good that is associated with luxury and an elevated sense of style.

[Zachary Crockett]

That association, she says, started back in the 1960s.

[Carolyn Yim]

How it came to be, well, I would say a lot of the association this with old money. Cashmere, like the cashmere, is worn at Ivy Leagues and the cashmere sweaters with like cigarette burns into it. And then in the 2000s, there was a lot more democratized cashmere. That started to happen. And that's when we really started to see that everyone wanted a cashmere sweater.

[Zachary Crockett]

These days, around 30 to 40 million pounds of raw cashmere are harvested each year all over the world. In Afghanistan, Tibet, Iran, Australia, New Zealand. But 90% of the world's supply is comes from China and Mongolia. In Mongolia, where Miga lives, herding was once a collectivist enterprise. But when the country's communist system was replaced by a democracy in 1990, the goat herds were privatized and families flooded into the herding business. Today, tending to Kashmir goats is Mongolia's largest profession.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

We have over 3 million population and 1 third of the population I heard of.

[Zachary Crockett]

Miga manages the Mongolian sustainable Cashmere platform for the United Nations. In short, she spends a lot of time working with herders. While goats in neighboring China are raised on farms, Miga says Mongolian herders are nomadic. They migrate across vast distances, sometimes hundreds of miles, in search of food for their goats.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

They are land connected people. They love their animal and livestock. They also love their nature. Early in the morning, they herd the animals and take them out to the pasture. They move a lot. They always go seeking for better pasture for their animals.

[Zachary Crockett]

The cashmere is harvested with metal combs every spring and weighed out in grams. That's the standard used for international trade. On average, a goat might produce 250 grams of raw cashmere each year. The price that it fetches is governed by its color and its quality. But in general, Miga says that one goat might yield around $10 worth of cashmere. That means that it takes a herd of 500 goats to earn Mongolia's median household income of $5,000. Most herders breed new Goats to ensure they have a sustainable cashmere business.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

Each season, springtime, they collect the cashmere. Then when it comes to slaughter season in November or early December, they slaughter the animal and sell the meat to the market.

[Zachary Crockett]

Mongolia has seen tremendous inflation over the past 30 years. An item that cost the equivalent of a dollar in 1993 costs around $95 today. So even with supplemental income, it's hard to make ends meet.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

Economic return is not sufficient enough to cover their financial demands. Herder family, for instance, have five children, four of them gone to this school. And the herders have to pay all that expenses in the capital city, which is now very expensive.

[Zachary Crockett]

In theory, herders could make more money if they sold their cashmere directly to processing mills. But their options are limited by Mongolia's geography.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

It's a vast country. You can imagine how much effort needs to be to collect all the raw material.

[Zachary Crockett]

Traders from China travel through the far reaches of Mongolia on motorbikes, collecting bags of cashmere from herders. These middlemen clean the cashmere and sell it to mills for around $100 per kilogram, more than twice what they paid for it. A portion of this raw cashmere stays in Mongolia, where it's knitted into goods by local companies. But 80% of it ends up in China. Mega wishes Mongolians could do more of that work themselves.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

Mongolia don't fully benefit from the Kashmir industry because of this insufficient processing capacity in the country.

[Zachary Crockett]

So how does all this cashmere get turned into sweaters, scarves, mittens and even underwear? That's coming up.

[Commercial Narrator 2]

We've been the trusted experts since 1960 because nobody knows tires better than we do. And with over 90 tire brands, we have an abundance of options in stock for your vehicle. Buy and Drive [e-mail] Let's get you taken care of.

[Commercial Narrator 1]

Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession, fashionistas. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. And when you score that rare Adidas Collab or the Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love what do the steam engine, electricity and AI have in common? They don't just change how we work, they they transform entire economies. Where the Internet Lives is an award winning podcast from Google about the unseen world of data centers. This season, we're going inside the AI revolution. From farmers using AI to analyze soil data to researchers discovering new medicines, a new era of AI innovation is here. Listen to where the Internet lives wherever you get your podcasts.

[Zachary Crockett]

Once cashmere is collected from herders, it makes its way all over the world. Some higher end brands like Loro Piana, export the material to Italy, where it's knitted in local factories. But most Mongolian cashmere ends up in China, where full scale milling operations turn it into yarn. It goes through a process called carding, which draws the fibers out into strands.

[Carolyn Yim]

It is like a really, really long Santa's beard. It's really nice and fluffy.

[Zachary Crockett]

Carolyn Yim, the third generation knitter, has visited the factories in China many times.

[Carolyn Yim]

This then is taken into the spinning machine where the hair is twisted in two ways. Kind of like a DNA structure that becomes twisted and twisted until it becomes a really long and that is finally then put onto the cone and becomes usable for knitting.

[Zachary Crockett]

By the end of this process, the cashmere is about 50% smaller. So it can take a lot of goats to make a single article of clothing.

[Carolyn Yim]

At the end of the production cycle, each sweater takes about one pound of yarn. If you're just measuring grams, it's about five or six goats for one sweater.

[Zachary Crockett]

Yim's company, Plyknits, uses this yarn to produce all kinds of cashmere goods. Cardigans, leggings, shirts, most of which cost a few hundred dollars apiece. But not all cashmere is created equal. The gold standard is pure white, with strands that are 14 microns wide and 36 millimeters long. And buyers like Yim have to develop a sixth sense for sniffing it out.

[Carolyn Yim]

I think over time, my sensitivity with my hands has really grown. It's sort of like being a perfumer with a nose. A really good cashmere sweater will feel peachy or creamy plush, whereas a bad cashmere sweater is dry, cardboardy, papery thin.

[Zachary Crockett]

Cashmere goods were once a luxury, produced in small batches and priced out of reach for most consumers. But in recent years, cashmere has entered an era of mass production. A new crop of Companies sells 100% cashmere sweaters for well below $100, supposedly by buying the material directly from herders and cutting out the middleman. But Yim says some brands keep prices down by using less material or by making their sweaters from lower quality fibers.

[Carolyn Yim]

You're taking not just the hair from the belly, you're taking areas that you wouldn't have before to make up for that demand, and then using Methodology afterwards, such as different ways of bleaching. I think this is happening a lot now. Even with high end brands. The luxury cashmere sweater today is not the same as what it was 20 years ago.

[Zachary Crockett]

Mongolia has responded to this boom in demand by cranking up cashmere production. Since 1990, the country's goat population has exploded from 5 million to 27 million. That's had an impact on the landscape. Goats consume up to 11% of their body weight in grass, shrubs and weeds every day. They eat close to the roots, preventing plants from regrowing. Their sharp hooves damage topsoil. Scientists have found that overgrazing has contributed to the degradation of 70% of Mongolia's grasslands. Migus says Mongolian officials have attempted a number of things to combat these issues, including livestock taxes to fund revegetation.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

They know that the land is foundation for everything, their livelihood and their animals. They're not stupid. They are willing to pay that money and they realize the issues.

[Zachary Crockett]

In northern China, measures have been more drastic. Most herding operations have been confined to.

[Carolyn Yim]

Farms in recent years. The Chinese government has a very particular approach to how the flocks can live. The goats are in corrals so that they are not roaming around free.

[Zachary Crockett]

And the region faces an even graver climate change. Most of Mongolia's landscape is made up of dry lands that are prone to becoming deserts. Temperatures are up, rainfall is down, and factories that produce cashmere garments are under pressure to adapt new sustainability standards. Environmental permits can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yim says that in some major production hubs in China, these costs have put up to 50% of small to medium sized knitwear manufacturers out of business in the last five years. Even the most diligent operations are struggling to comply.

[Carolyn Yim]

I do not have the hubris to claim I have 100% sustainability because it's completely impossible.

[Zachary Crockett]

Together, increased demand, overgrazing and climate change mean that Kashmir is getting worse.

[Carolyn Yim]

I'm unable to find the quality that we had 20 years ago. In Inner Mongolia, the cashmere fiber width has been steadily increasing. And that's not a good thing. You can't just increase yield of goat hair so quickly to meet up with demand.

[Zachary Crockett]

These are prickly issues for something as soft as a baby's butt. But Mongolians like Mika are invested in creating a sustainable future for the trade because cashmere is more than a material used to make really soft sweaters. It's a part of the country's identity.

[Miyagmarjav Miga]

This nomadic way of herding practice has been in the country hundreds, hundreds of years. The international demand is going up. The country has to control in terms of impact, environmental impact, social impact, and also economic impact for that commodity. That's a lot of challenges.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. This episode was produced by Sarah Lilly with help from Lyric Bowditch and mixed by Jeremy Johnston.

[Carolyn Yim]

In Mongolia, they wash it with just shampoo or with detergent. And it's just everybody wears it.

[Commercial Narrator 1]

The Freakonomics Radio Network the Hidden side of Everything. Stitcher.

[Commercial Narrator 2]

Tires matter. They're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road. Tread confidently with new tires from Tire Rack Whether you're looking for expert recommendations or know exactly what you want, Tire Rack makes it easy, fast free shipping, free road hazard protection, and convenient installation options. Go to tirerack.com to see Tire test results, tire ratings, and consumer reviews. And be sure to check out all the special offers. Tirerack.com, the way Tire buying should be.

[Commercial Narrator 1]

A year ago, I'm pretty sure I made a baby on Valentine's Day. My cycles were confusing. My doctor didn't listen. My period app couldn't predict ovulation. We missed chances for months. If you want a baby and you're struggling, here's what I did. I got us a Mira Hormone Monitor. Mira tracks four key hormones like a lab from home and found my ovulation in minutes. Plus, it also tracks hormone health and perimenopause. Get 20% off for Valentine's Day with code [e-mail] you're juggling a lot, but you can still squeeze in a financial plan with the Northwestern Mutual Financial Advisor as your partner. It's not only possible, but it's personalized. So if you're tying the knot, closing on a house, or welcoming a little one, you'll be ready for whatever life tosses your way. It's the right time to feel less stressed and more certain. That's a better way to money. Let's get [e-mail] in Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.