112. Campgrounds

Summary

The Economics of Everyday Things — Episode 112: Campgrounds

Host: Zachary Crockett (Freakonomics Network)
Date: October 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the surprisingly complex economics behind American campgrounds. Host Zachary Crockett explores how campgrounds are owned and operated, what it takes to start or buy one, how they're run as businesses, and the financial realities behind this slice of Americana — all through the journey of Mark Lemoine, a former political lobbyist turned campground entrepreneur and KOA executive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Politics to Campgrounds: Mark Lemoine’s Pivot

• [01:07 – 02:31]
  • Mark Lemoine describes leaving a high-stress, decades-long political career for a radical life change, inspired by a simple dream: running a campground.
  • “With no hesitation, I told him, 'you're going to think I'm crazy, but I’ve always wanted to own and operate a campground.’” – Mark Lemoine [01:43]
  • Sold his home, cars, and belongings to fund buying a campground within six months.

2. Types of Campgrounds in America

• [02:31 – 03:31]
  • Nearly 27,000 US campgrounds with over 2 million campsites; variety ranges from minimalist tent sites to “glamping” and deluxe cabin setups.
  • Publicly owned (about half, run by NPS, BLM, state, city) vs. privately owned (often mom-and-pop or franchise).
• Quote: “Campgrounds can be built on either large tracts of land, let’s say 40 acres... or I would probably say, you know, as small as about 10 acres.” — Mark Lemoine [05:25]

3. Public vs. Private Campgrounds: Economics and Purpose

• [03:31 – 04:59]
  • Public campgrounds have low fees but require tax subsidies; they usually don’t fully cover operational costs.
  • “The park service estimates that each tax dollar invested in National Parks returns $10 in local economic activity.” — Zachary Crockett [04:06]
  • Private campgrounds operate for profit, heavily entrepreneurial, and often treat guests as family.
  • “Our industry is very fragmented… mostly owned and operated by mom and pops.” — Mark Lemoine [04:59]

4. Starting or Buying a Campground: Costs and Logistics

• [05:17 – 07:29]
  • Building new: At least 100 sites recommended; infrastructure costs alone range from $1.5M–$2.5M+, not including land.
    • "It’s estimated that it would be about $15,000 to $25,000 per site..." — Mark Lemoine [05:51]
  • Red tape: Licensing, permits, and compliance with various regulations in every state.
  • Buying existing: Often $4–6 million for established, well-located parks.
  • Franchise route (e.g., KOA) provides brand visibility but adds royalty and marketing fees.

5. The KOA Franchise Model

• [07:29 – 09:06]
  • “KOA is the most recognized brand in the outdoor hospitality industry.” — Mark Lemoine [08:07]
  • As franchisees, owners pay 8% of registration revenue as royalties and an additional 2% for marketing.
  • In 2023, KOA parks generated about $500M collectively, averaging nearly $1M per location (excluding ancillary revenue).

6. Campground Operations and Financial Realities

• [11:48 – 13:15]

  • Description of Lemoine’s Michigan campground: 130 sites (101 RV, 9 tent, 20 cabins), earning about $1.5M/year.
  • Higher-end sites and amenities rent faster than basic (“value” sites).
  • “It’s our more expensive sites with the larger amenities that go first.” — Mark Lemoine [12:42]

• [13:15 – 14:29]

  • 85% of his revenue from site rentals; the rest from the general store and other features.
  • Average rates: Tent sites ~$40/night, RV ~$50 and up (some RV sites $200+ for premium).
  • Dynamic (“airline-style”) pricing is growing more common: book early for better prices.

7. Maximizing Occupancy and Revenue Streams

• [14:29 – 15:34]

  • Goal: 60–70% nightly occupancy overall, near 100% in peak summer.
  • Diversified income: Onsite stores (food, supplies, firewood), especially valuable because KOA royalties don’t apply.
  • “The store really is, from an economic standpoint, the engine…” — Mark Lemoine [15:34]

• [16:01 – 16:31]

  • Typical family of four spends about $150/night including camping, snacks, and souvenirs.
  • Seasonal nature means most revenue comes between Memorial Day and Labor Day (“like farming”).

8. Expenses, Staffing, and Hidden Costs

• [16:50 – 17:47]
  • Year-round bills but seasonal cash flow.
  • Staff: Mix of “work campers” (retirees trading labor for stay) and local youth.
  • Massive electric bills: “My peak electric bill, I paid as much as $15,000 once in a month.” — Mark Lemoine [17:41]
  • Unpredictable repairs: Trees snapping lines, water hookups breaking.

9. Profit Margins and Business Sustainability

• [18:12 – 18:46]
  • Lemoine targets a 30% profit margin (~$450K/year), reinvesting profits or paying himself as owner.
  • “You’ve got that 30% to be able to reinvest back into the campground or, you know, a novel idea with most people, business owners, especially mom and pops, is ultimately you’d like to pay yourself.” — Mark Lemoine [18:34]

10. Reflections on the Campground Life

• [18:46 – 19:41]
  • Formerly in government/policy, Lemoine finds immense fulfillment from creating visible, direct positive impact for guests and families.
  • “I get no greater joy than walking around my campground on an evening and seeing families sitting around the fire…” — Mark Lemoine [18:51]
  • Running a campground likened to running a small town: “I’m the president, the Congress, the Supreme Court, the governor, I’m the chief of police and the dog catcher all wrapped in one.” — Mark Lemoine [19:25]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Why campgrounds?

  “You’re going to think I’m crazy, but I’ve always wanted to own and operate a campground.”
  — Mark Lemoine [01:43]

• Campground infrastructure cost:

  “If you were building a 100 site campground, you’re looking... at a top range of about $2.5 million just to build the infrastructure. That doesn’t include the land.”
  — Mark Lemoine [05:51]

• Seasonal stress:

  “As a seasonal business, it’s like farming. You need to make money when the sun is shining. But those bills come in year round.”
  — Mark Lemoine [16:31]

• Biggest expense surprise:

  “My peak electric bill, I paid as much as $15,000 once in a month.”
  — Mark Lemoine [17:41]

• On being a campground operator:

  “I’m the president, I’m the Congress, I’m the Supreme Court, the governor, I’m the chief of police and the dog catcher all wrapped in one.”
  — Mark Lemoine [19:25]

• DIY warning:

  “Our industry has largely been known for a lot of DIY. I don’t recommend that necessarily.”
  — Mark Lemoine [20:15]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Mark’s origin story: [01:07 – 02:31]
• Public vs. Private Campgrounds: [03:31 – 04:59]
• Campground construction costs & process: [05:17 – 06:46]
• KOA franchise economics: [07:29 – 09:06]
• Campground daily operations: [11:48 – 13:15]
• Revenue breakdown and pricing: [13:40 – 14:29]
• Seasonality and staffing: [16:31 – 17:21]
• Profit margins & owner reflections: [18:12 – 19:41]

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Podcast Tone and Language

• Conversational, candid, and curious tone
• Direct testimonies from an entrepreneur navigating industry realities
• Accessible explanations demystifying financial and regulatory complexities
• Light, occasionally humorous banter (e.g., about building picnic tables, [20:21])

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Takeaways

Running a campground might look like an idyllic escape, but it’s a serious business with major capital investment, complex operations, and a blend of hospitality, logistics, and a touch of local governance. For people like Mark Lemoine, the deep satisfaction comes not just from owning land, but from building a place for families to gather, relax, and make memories — all while balancing the books and dodging snapped water lines.

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For more episodes and topics, or to suggest an idea, listeners are invited to email [e-mail]

Transcript

[Zachary Crockett]

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[Zachary Crockett]

Back in 2016, Mark Lemoine was at the tail end of a long and stressful career in politics.

[Mark Lemoine]

I was very much engaged in the public policy arena, worked several years in the Michigan State Senate, and then I was a lobbyist at the state and federal level, working in the industries of retail and healthcare. And after 24 years in that industry, my wife and I hit what we call the midlife reset button.

[Zachary Crockett]

As a part of that reset, Lemoine met up with an old friend to get some advice on what to do next, and it led to an unexpected outcome.

[Mark Lemoine]

He says, if I could do anything in the world, what would it be? And with no hesitation, I told him, you're going to think I'm crazy, but I've always wanted to own and operate a campground. And rather than laughing at me, he continued with the challenge of, well, then you got to do that. And within six months, my wife and I sold the house, a second car, furnishings, you know, clothes, different things we knew we wouldn't need. And we bought a campground and jumped in head first. It was like an adrenaline rush. I remember coming back from the title office, signing a stack of paperwork that was about a foot high. And literally everything we own, including, you know, the 401k, was in the form of a campground. We had a great sense of accomplishment, but then also looked at each other just terrible with, oh my gosh, what.

[Zachary Crockett]

Did we do for the Freakonomics Radio network? This is the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. Today campgrounds it's estimated that There are around 27,000 campgrounds in the United States. Together, they have more than 2 million campsites. And they come in many different shapes and forms.

[Mark Lemoine]

For most campers, tenting is still the entree into camping. You know, it's very economical. You can, you know, buy a tent for about $100.

[Zachary Crockett]

Again, that's Mark Lemoine.

[Mark Lemoine]

Guests are coming in RVs, whether it be a pop up or a travel trailer or class a motorhomes that are literally million dollar units with all of the creature comforts of home. Then we also offer accommodations, whether it be small basic cabins or deluxe cabins. And many of us even have what we call unique accommodations. Glamping tents, tree houses, train cabo.

[Zachary Crockett]

Around half of these campgrounds are publicly owned. They're run by federal agencies like the national park service or the bureau of land management, and by state and municipal governments.

[Mark Lemoine]

The United States obviously has invested a lot of time and energy through the years to protect lands for the enjoyment of the public. The public parks do a nice job of providing great settings, but usually more base amenities. You know, outhouse perhaps, or a bathroom. Bathroom and a shower, but not much more.

[Zachary Crockett]

Public campgrounds charge modest reservation fees, but this money usually isn't enough to break even. The average public campground might only recover 50 to 75% of the cost to run it. To stay operational, they rely heavily on tax dollars. Governments are willing to make this investment because there's still a net economic benefit to the local communities outside of the park, where visitors spend money on things like gas, lodging and food. The park service estimates that each tax dollar invested in National Parks returns $10 in local economic activity. But these economics aren't a concern for the other campgrounds. In the United States, a growing percentage of campgrounds are privately owned and operated, either by large investors or by individuals like Marc lemoine and his wife.

[Mark Lemoine]

Our industry is very fragmented in that it is mostly owned and operated by mom and pops single owner operators. It's entrepreneurial at its heart, and we operate our parks as if we've opened up our home to our guests.

[Zachary Crockett]

There are a few different ways to own a campground. For starters, you can buy land somewhere and build one yourself.

[Mark Lemoine]

Campgrounds can be built on either large tracts of land, let's say 40 acres, 20 of which is the campground itself with the sites on them, or I would probably say, you know, as small as about 10 acres. That would be pretty tight.

[Zachary Crockett]

If you want to build a mid sized facility with room for tents and RVs and a couple bathrooms, you're looking at a pretty sizable cost.

[Mark Lemoine]

You're typically wanting to start with at least 100 sites, and it's estimated that it would be about $15,000 to $25,000 per site. So if you were building a 100 site campground, you're looking, you know, at a top range of about $2.5 million just to build the infrastructure. You know, the sewer, the water, the electric, you're going to need restrooms and perhaps a general store. And that $2.5 million doesn't include the land.

[Zachary Crockett]

When you go this route, you also better expect some red tape.

[Mark Lemoine]

Governments in all 50 states still regulate the operation of a campground because it is a business. Everything from, you know, you need a campground license and a sales tax license, and you might need a permit to be able to provide water if you're on a well system as opposed to public utilities. So there are definitely expenses on the front end.

[Zachary Crockett]

If you don't want to deal with all of this, you can buy an existing campground instead. You can find dozens of them for sale on listing sites like Campground Marketplace or through a specialty campground broker. But you're likely to pay a bit of a premium since you're buying both real estate and an established business. A campground with 100 sites in a good location with a proven customer base could set you back around 4 to 6 million dollars. Even if you manage to get a campground up and running, it can be hard to market it to campers. Many buyers choose to purchase a campground franchise from Campgrounds of America, or koa. That's the path that Mark Lemoine and his wife took.

[Mark Lemoine]

We purchased our park in 2016 for 1.6 million. It had been a KOA the entire time and was owned by its original owners. They operated it for 42 years, and they get the credit for building a beautiful park on top of what was formerly a blueberry field. So all the infrastructure was there.

[Zachary Crockett]

Lemoyne's campground in Benton Harbor, Michigan, is one of more than 520 franchise locations in North America under the Koa brand. In addition to owning his own campground franchise, Lemoine is now the senior vice president of franchise operations for Campgrounds of America.

[Mark Lemoine]

KOA is the most recognized brand in the outdoor hospitality industry. And, you know, one of the biggest benefits that we get as a franchisee is just that awareness. Just affiliating ourselves with the brand alone puts us on the map. All franchisees are independent business owners and operators, so the greatest asset that they own is the land and the buildings themselves. And koa's partnership really is just for the operation of the campground itself.

[Zachary Crockett]

As a franchisee with a recognizable campground brand, you can get more visibility, but it doesn't come for free. You have to fork over a percentage of the revenue you earn from campsite bookings.

[Mark Lemoine]

We pay royalties and the royalties are applied to our registration revenue. It's 8% for the royalties, and then we also pay 2% specifically for marketing and advertising.

[Zachary Crockett]

In 2023, KOA reported that its franchises collectively brought in around $500 million in campsite registration fees. That averages out to just under a million dollars in revenue per location, and that doesn't include additional income from things like on site general stores and restaurants. But running a campground is about more than just putting your boots up by the fire and roasting marshmallows. It involves seasonal swings in demand, sky high electrical bills, and a lot of calculations about occupancy rates. That's coming up. The Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by SurveyMonkey. Look, we get it. You can hardly go anywhere or do anything these days without hearing about AI this or AI that. And if you're like most people when it comes to AI, you're impressed but have a few concerns. But what if AI was used not as a tool to replace people, but as a way to help understand people better? AI from SurveyMonkey is designed to do just that. From crafting the perfect survey, which is harder than you might think, to analysis that digs deep, finds patterns and surfaces trends quickly. SurveyMonkey's powerful suite of AI capabilities makes it faster and easier than ever before to get insights from real people helping you make confident decisions for your business. Try it [e-mail] Economics.

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[Zachary Crockett]

Mark Lemoine's campground is set on 40 acres of land not far from the eastern banks of Lake Michigan. It's shrouded by maple and pine trees and well manicured paths lead to a stately general store. About half the land is devoted to campsites, almost all of them for RVs.

[Mark Lemoine]

My park, I have 130 sites that would include 101 RV sites, nine tent sites, and then 20 cabins.

[Zachary Crockett]

And how many guests are coming through there?

[Mark Lemoine]

Every year we see 15,000 guests from all over the US as well as international countries.

[Zachary Crockett]

Like many privately owned campgrounds, especially those in franchise systems like campgrounds of America, LeMoyne's park is heavily developed. This isn't a state run campground with little more than a carved up picnic bench and a well used grill.

[Mark Lemoine]

We've got a nice in ground heated pool. We've got a playground. We also have a nice pond that we do catch and release fishing on. And for the area of our property that is not developed, we have carved a walking trail. One of the things that I found interesting is that while we try to offer guests the sites that are the value, sites that are, you know, less expensive and lesser bells and whistles, lo and behold, it's our more expensive sites with the larger amenities that go first.

[Zachary Crockett]

The $1.6 million investment that Lemoine made nine years ago has paid off. Today his campground generates around 1.5 million in annual revenue. He says around 85% of that money comes from the site rentals. Private campgrounds generally charge higher nightly rates than public campgrounds. But Lemoine says they're still beholden to market forces.

[Mark Lemoine]

The market is ultimately going to dictate price, and that can be determined based upon the competition that you have in the area. There's other public parks or private parks that charge a little bit less. There's a number of other private parks that are always surrounding every location. And you take a look at what they're charging and ultimately most tent sites are I'll say $40. And then you go up to the RV class, which could be $50 or more. Most of our RV sites always offer at least water and electric. But then when you start adding sewer or things like patio and then grills and furniture, those price points will go up. I think the most expensive RV site that I have ever paid for myself would be for about $200 a night on average.

[Zachary Crockett]

Lemoyne wants to see at least 60 to 70% of the campsites booked every night and closer to 100% during peak summer months. The price of a site can fluctuate based on demand. Some campgrounds are now experimenting with dynamic pricing, similar to what you see with Uber rides or airline tickets.

[Mark Lemoine]

If you buy a plane ticket earlier, it's going to cost a little bit less. But as that plane fills up, it might cost more. Camping, in many respects now is working exactly the same way. The old strategy of just setting your rate and forgetting it all year long has changed. So most guests, if they book earlier, they are going to get the better prices on the better sites. As the supply and demand chain changes and adjust, that price is going to go up and down accordingly.

[Zachary Crockett]

10% of that revenue gets kicked back to Campgrounds of America. But LeMoyne gets to keep all of the money from other income streams, which makes the general store important to the business.

[Mark Lemoine]

The store really is, from an economic standpoint, the engine, because the store revenue is not tied to the royalties at koa. In our general store, we have RV supplies, apparel, and then toys or grocery items that you might have forgotten. Mustard, ketchup, in the morning. We have lattes and espressos and muffins. Firewood is my number one product in total.

[Zachary Crockett]

Lemoine says the average family of four that stays at his campground spends around $150 per night.

[Mark Lemoine]

That includes the site. That includes some firewood, maybe some marshmallows and graham crackers and chocolate, making everybody's favorite camping treat. And then they might buy a sweatshirt or a knickknack.

[Zachary Crockett]

Due to the Harsh Michigan winters, LeMoyne's campground is only open six months of the year, and he has to make enough to cover the off season.

[Mark Lemoine]

Across our industry, the overwhelming majority of our revenue comes in the summer months of June, July, and August, you know, basically between Memorial Day and Labor Day. And as a seasonal business, it's like farming. You need to make money when the sun is shining. But those bills come in year round.

[Zachary Crockett]

Running a campground isn't cheap. LeMoyne pays taxes on the land, ongoing fees for business licenses, and labor costs for seasonal workers.

[Mark Lemoine]

I have at my park as many as 22 to 25 staff members that usually are retired individuals that we call work campers who come and exchange time at our campground for the work that they do. And we also hire high school and college students as well.

[Zachary Crockett]

And then there are the electric bills.

[Mark Lemoine]

They are more than my mortgage in my house used to be in an entire year, you know, 130 sites and everybody's plugging in on a hot July day. And some RVs have two or three air conditioners. That meter is cooking for sure.

[Zachary Crockett]

What's your peak electric bill?

[Mark Lemoine]

My peak electric bill, I paid as much as $15,000 once in a month.

[Zachary Crockett]

Are there less obvious expenses that come up?

[Mark Lemoine]

I mean, trees literally in your own park can snap an electric line over time, and then all of a sudden you have a number of sites that have no electricity. I think one of the most unexpected repairs that we might have to do are on behalf of a guest who forgets to unhook the water line to our water. And as they pull off, it snaps. And then I've got a geyser in the park.

[Zachary Crockett]

And how much does something like that set you back?

[Mark Lemoine]

Usually a couple hours. The digging is the most treacherous work.

[Zachary Crockett]

All costs considered, Lemoine aims to make around a 30% profit margin. If he has around $450,000 left over from his 1.5 million in annual revenue, he's a happy camper.

[Mark Lemoine]

You've got that 30% to be able to reinvest back into the campground or, you know, a novel idea with most people, business owners, especially mom and Pops, is ultimately, you'd like to pay yourself.

[Zachary Crockett]

Looking back, how do you feel about your decision to pivot careers nine years ago?

[Mark Lemoine]

It's incredibly cathartic. Many of us are in industries where you may or may not see the results of the efforts that you're putting into a job, and government would be one of the greatest examples of that. And now I get no greater joy than walking around my campground on an evening and seeing families sitting around the fire enjoying stories or kids riding their bikes.

[Zachary Crockett]

But in some respect, running a campground isn't too dissimilar from the political world that Mark Lemoine left behind.

[Mark Lemoine]

I'm running a small community. I'm the president, I'm the Congress, I'm the Supreme Court, the governor, I'm the chief of police and the dog catcher all wrapped in one.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the economics of everyday things, I'm Zachary Crockett. This episode was produced by me and Sarah Lilly and mixed by Jeremy Johnston. We had help from Daniel Moritz Rapson and Dalvin Abuadiji. And thanks to listeners Madeline Nasser and Brian Roy for suggesting this topic. If you have an idea for an episode, feel free to email us anytime@everyday thingsreconomics.com Our inbox is always open. All right, see you next week.

[Mark Lemoine]

Our industry has largely been known for a lot of diy. I don't recommend that necessarily.

[Zachary Crockett]

You're telling me you don't want to build 50 picnic tables from scratch?

[Mark Lemoine]

I do not. I do not. Carpentry is not necessarily one of my skills.

[Zachary Crockett]

The Freakonomics Radio Network the Hidden side of everything Stitcher.

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