115. Miniature Golf

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Economics of Everyday Things — Episode 115: Miniature Golf

Host: Zachary Crockett
Guests: Mike Matzinger, Sal Conoboy, Katie Conoboy
Release Date: November 17, 2025
Duration (excluding ads/intros/outros): ~26 minutes

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Overview

In this episode, Zachary Crockett delves into the quirky, nostalgic world of miniature golf to uncover its surprisingly robust economics. The episode explores the business mechanics of building and running a mini golf course, the history and design behind these adventurous putting greens, and why mini golf remains a durable, profitable, and sociable pastime. The episode is supported by interviews with industry veterans, including a hands-on course owner and a powerhouse course-design couple.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Allure and Structure of Mini Golf

• Location Spotlight: Starts with Surf's Up Mini Golf in Carolina Beach, NC, owned by Mike Matzinger, featuring a $20,000 animatronic octopus and an immersive surfing theme.
• Course Design: The course offers thematic challenges, such as surf-related weather write-ups at each hole and a challenging final obstacle.
• Industry Landscape: There are around 5,000 mini golf courses in the US, making it a quirky yet significant industry with many moving parts (designers, turf installers, themed prop builders).

2. Economics of Course Operation

• Cost Structure:
  • The upfront cost for a new course often ranges from $300,000 to $2.5 million, with some elaborate features costing upwards.
  • Example: Matzinger’s Surf’s Up course cost about $2 million for land, design, construction, and extras.
  • Ongoing costs are minimal compared to most businesses: putters cost $14 and balls $1 (and last several years), minimal full-time staff, and limited ongoing materials.
• Revenue & Profitability:
  • Typical course annual revenue: $250,000–$500,000 (Katie Conoboy, 22:02).
  • Owners often recover their investment in less than two years (Katie Conoboy, 13:09).
  • Courses can break even on a very small daily revenue ($500/day—Mike Matzinger, 21:16).
• Seasonality:
  • Strongly seasonal (especially in tourist towns)—summer is peak, winters are quiet (Mike Matzinger, 21:45).

3. The Business of Mini Golf Course Design

• Leading Firm: Harris Miniature Golf, run by Sal and Katie Conoboy, has built over 900 courses worldwide—including on Caribbean islands and in Saudi Arabia.
• Design Process:
  • Begins with surveying the land and using AutoCAD to craft every hole.
  • Creativity is essential: classic motifs (windmills, clown faces) and new elements (streams carrying balls, log bridges).
  • “It’s about knowing the right order to put [holes] in…too many difficult holes in a row might cause traffic jams.” — Katie Conoboy, 10:24.
• Customization and Competition:
  • In tourist hotspots, operators compete on theming to draw customers. In smaller towns, simplicity may suffice.
  • Decision-making often centers on anticipated return on investment (Sal Conoboy, 09:03).

4. Running the Course: Real Stories from an Owner

• Entrepreneurial Journey:
  • Mike Matzinger has a diverse background (mattress stores, poker leagues, board games) and was drawn to mini golf by both its fun factor and its low ongoing overhead (18:11).
  • Discovered hidden challenges, e.g., running out of putters on opening weekend due to unexpected group behavior (Mike Matzinger, 20:42).
• Operational Insights:
  • Staffing is minimal, mostly part-time or seasonal.
  • Most expenses are fixed upfront; ongoing maintenance is primary recurring cost (e.g., vacuuming turf, Mike Matzinger, 23:20).
  • Manual processes persist—most customers prefer handwritten scorecards (23:39).
• Community & Social Element:
  • Mini golf remains popular because it’s accessible fun for all ages and brings out friendly (or fierce) competition—“You’ll never expect the grandparents out with their grandkids and how competitive that could get.” — Sal Conoboy, 25:50
  • The COVID-19 pandemic boosted the industry as people sought outdoor entertainment (Katie Conoboy, 24:36).

5. Sustainability and Growth

• Industry Health:
  • Demand higher than ever, with corporate chains entering but independents thriving.
  • Industry revenue exceeds $2B with 18 million annual players.
  • “The demand right now is higher than it’s ever been before.” — Katie Conoboy, 24:31

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Wow” Factor in Theming:
  • “It was about 20 grand for that, but it’s a wow factor. I want my kids to be able to say their dad owns an octopus. Who doesn’t want to do that?”
    — Mike Matzinger (01:11)
• On the Profit Model:
  • “Someone comes in and you hand them a putter. And whether they pay a dollar or they pay a hundred dollars, it doesn’t cost you anything. But it has the opportunity to be a very profitable business.”
    — Mike Matzinger (02:57)
• Design Evolution:
  • “It really started as a business venture in the early 1920s with Tom Thumb Golf…miniature golf courses with whimsical themes…”
    — Sal Conoboy (03:49)
• Design Challenge:
  • “We want everyone to feel like they are successful.”
    — Katie Conoboy (10:53)
• On Manual Labor:
  • “If you’re the kind of person that really doesn’t like vacuuming your 2,000 square foot home, do not build a mini golf course. All 18 holes get vacuumed twice a week.”
    — Mike Matzinger (23:20)
• On Customer Experience:
  • “Part of the mini golf experience is jabbing yourself in the leg with that pencil and figuring out how to carry a beer and a scorecard at the same time. More technology doesn’t necessarily make it better.”
    — Mike Matzinger (23:57)
• On Operator Skill:
  • “No, I am definitely not a very good mini golf player. You don’t have to be good at mini golf to open a mini golf course.”
    — Mike Matzinger (25:05)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:11] Mike Matzinger introduces Surf’s Up and its signature octopus.
• [02:57] Mini golf’s profit model—low recurring expenses.
• [03:39] Sal Conoboy on mini golf history.
• [05:09] Harris Miniature Golf’s approach to design and global reach.
• [09:22] Designing for fun and fun-for-all difficulty.
• [11:09] Specialized construction, including $500,000 volcano features.
• [13:09] Return on investment for new mini golf courses (usually within two years).
• [17:28] Matzinger’s background and entrepreneurial philosophy.
• [20:42] Unexpected operational problems, such as running out of putters.
• [21:16] Daily break-even revenue.
• [23:20] Course maintenance realities.
• [23:57] Why the analog mini golf experience persists.
• [24:31] Post-COVID demand surge and the future outlook.
• [25:05] You don’t have to play mini golf well to run a successful course.
• [25:50] Intergenerational competition—grandparent stories.

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a lively, fact-packed journey into the surprisingly complicated world of miniature golf economics. With anecdotes, industry stats, and a peek into the creative art of course design, it demonstrates how a nostalgic leisure activity can become a multi-million-dollar enterprise—all while reminding listeners of the importance of fun, community, and play.

Transcript

[Zachary Crockett]

We know that weeknights are not for the week, but are you gonna throw.

[Katie Conoboy]

In the kitchen towel and order takeout?

[Zachary Crockett]

No way.

[Katie Conoboy]

You've got Land O' Lakes butter, a.

[Zachary Crockett]

Skillet and a plan.

[Katie Conoboy]

Land O' Lakes.

[Zachary Crockett]

Eat it like you own it.

[Walmart Ad Narrator]

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[Zachary Crockett]

If you take a drive through the coastal town of Carolina beach in North Carolina, you'll see a lot of familiar businesses. There's a Walgreens, a cvs, a Dollar General. But if you pay attention, you might also catch a glimpse of a 15 foot wide animatronic octopus wriggling its tentacles in the distance.

[Mike Matzinger]

I mean, it was about 20 grand for that, but it's a wow factor. I want my kids to be able to say their dad owns an octopus. You know what I mean? Like, who doesn't want to do that, right?

[Zachary Crockett]

That's Mike Matzinger. He and his wife are the owners of Surf's up, the mini golf course where that octopus lives.

[Mike Matzinger]

The concept is that you're kind of surfing the whole time as you go through each hole. We have write ups about that hole that give you the conditions for surfing that day. It might say the current's pulling strong left today. Be careful or you might wind up in the rocks. We have a 1974 redone VW bug with surfboards on top of it. We have five ponds that we've got a 15 foot tall waterfall.

[Zachary Crockett]

Like many mini golf courses, surf's up has 18 holes. It takes around an hour for a family of four to reach the final obstacle.

[Mike Matzinger]

In the center of the hole there is this mound and there's rocks all along the mound on either side. And if you hit it up and you leave it a little short of the peak of the mound, you roll down to the right into the water. The people that get most upset about it are the good golfers. They've got the collar shirt and their own putter. And then they're angry at me when they leave because it's humbled them. You know, it's a tough course.

[Zachary Crockett]

Surf's up is one of around 5,000 mini golf courses in the US it's a quirky industry full of quirky people. Mini golf course designers, construction firms, turf installers, and architects of artificial waterfalls. Bringing a course to life is complicated and pricey. But once it's up and running, it can be a financial hole in one.

[Mike Matzinger]

Someone comes in and you hand them a putter. And whether they pay a dollar or they pay a hundred dollars, it doesn't cost you anything. But has the opportunity to be a very profitable business.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the Freakonomics radio network, this is the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. Today, miniature golf. The game of golf first came about in Scotland during the middle ages. By the 18th century, it was a formalized sport, but it was a sport that required a ton of land. And as populations urbanized, people started to think about ways to consolidate certain parts of the game into smaller spaces.

[Sal Conoboy]

The earliest adaptations were more of a miniature version of golf courses.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's Sal Conoboy. He's a mini golf expert.

[Sal Conoboy]

It really started as a business venture in the early 1920s with Tom Thumb Golf. They created miniature golf courses with whimsical themes that you would picture in your mind as an old school style miniature golf course.

[Zachary Crockett]

So these were sort of like the precursors to your classic windmill and artificial turf courses?

[Sal Conoboy]

Yep, yep, exactly. That kind of carried through the 20s and the 30s. It became very popular in places like New York City on rooftops. It was all throughout the city.

[Zachary Crockett]

In the post war 1950s, the pastime surged in popularity. You had national chains like Putt Putt that emphasized real golf skills. And you also had themed courses with all kinds of gimmicks, Castles, bridges, and those giant mechanical clown faces where you had to hit the ball into the open mouth at just the right moment. Today, a lot of those older courses are still around, but you may also notice a more modern type of mini golf experience. One with more water and a lot more space.

[Sal Conoboy]

Our average size course is probably around 18,000 square feet for an 18 hole course. And it's probably gonna have a multitude of water features.

[Zachary Crockett]

Sal is the president of Harris Miniature Golf. He co owns the company with his wife Katie Conoboy, who serves as CEO.

[Katie Conoboy]

We're still able to create fun obstacles on the course without having things, things like windmills. So we like to include waterfalls and streams on a lot of our courses. And then we also have other things like sand traps along the side of the hole to keep it interesting.

[Zachary Crockett]

Harris was started by two entrepreneurs in the 1950s and was later purchased by Katie's father, Rich. Today, it's one of the nation's leading mini golf course design and construction firms.

[Katie Conoboy]

We have built over 900 miniature golf courses. We average around 25 courses per year.

[Zachary Crockett]

The company has built mini golf courses all over the world in all kinds of locations.

[Sal Conoboy]

Yeah, I mean, the Caribbean, Australia, Ireland, Saudi Arabia, Germany, and then We've built in 49 states except for Alaska. I would say probably half of our customers build standalone golf courses, while the other half are part of another facility. You have campgrounds, ice cream stands, restaurants, bars, beer gardens, resorts, you know.

[Zachary Crockett]

By the latest estimate from the National Golf foundation, some 18 million Americans play mini golf each year. Total revenue across the industry is now north of $2 billion annually. And it's likely to keep going up. In recent years, the space has been flooded by a number of corporate operators like Puttery, Puttshack, Drive Shack and Pop Stroke, which is co owned by Tiger Woods. But Katie Conoboy says that many of Harris clients are independent operators who just want to start a fun business.

[Katie Conoboy]

A lot of our golf courses are maybe an older retired couple who are kind of looking for what's next. We've also had people who are looking to get out of their corporate jobs and want something that they're going to really enjoy and be able to put their full time into and have fun when they go to work. And then we have a lot of entrepreneurs who are looking to start larger entertainment centers or a resort owner who needs to have the greatest amenity to add to their resort.

[Zachary Crockett]

These clients usually come to Harris after they've secured a plot of land for their course. And the process begins with a comprehensive design plan.

[Katie Conoboy]

So both of our designers are landscape architects by background. I don't think either of them had planned when they went to college that they were going to be designing and building miniature golf courses. Fortunately, they are really amazing at it.

[Zachary Crockett]

The designers start with a topographic survey of the locations where the mini golf course is being built. A map is that details elevation, trees, and other natural features of the land. Then they design each hole using software like AutoCAD and Lumion. While every course is custom built, Harris has some signature hole designs that it often reuses if the space allows for it. Sal has a favorite.

[Sal Conoboy]

So this hole, it's pretty much a dogleg left with a stream running through the center of the hole. You have a little tiny bridge to shoot over the stream, and it's designed to make the ball go into the water. So you hit the ball, the ball goes into the water and you think you lost the ball, but it continues down the stream. You're chasing the ball, all of a sudden it goes under a log and it pops out onto the green down on the other side of the hill. So that's one of the holes that we took in the center of the course because people are gonna play it again and again.

[Zachary Crockett]

A decision that's made early on is whether to build a heavily themed course or something more basic we try and.

[Sal Conoboy]

Convey to our customers. You should always be thinking about your return on your investment in a heavy tourist area where you're competing against other courses that have castles on them or have Scooby Doo features. Of course, you're gonna need to compete with that in smaller markets. It might not be that necessary.

[Zachary Crockett]

Regardless of what the client chooses, part of the challenge in mini golf course design is striking the right balance and difficulty level. You want a course that's easy enough for a five year old to play, but challenging enough to give mom and dad a few head scratches.

[Katie Conoboy]

So some of the easier holes are going to be a little bit more straightforward where you can putt the ball almost directly to the hole, but we will offer banks around the side or planters that can get in the way to make sure that the hole is still interesting and fun.

[Sal Conoboy]

There's different obstacles. The classic pipe shot, where it goes into a pipe and you might think it's coming out in one spot and comes out in another spot. That's kind of classic miniature golf, right? We're constantly creating multiple different angles on a shot.

[Zachary Crockett]

It's not just about designing fun holes, it's about knowing what order to put them in. Too many difficult holes in a row might cause traffic jams on the course.

[Katie Conoboy]

In the beginning, we need to have some of those easier, faster playing holes so there's not a buildup for customers to get onto the course. And then as you're playing it, there needs to be a bit of an alteration between a hole that takes a little bit longer to play with the easier, quicker playing holes. That makes it more fun for the people as well. You don't want anyone to get frustrated and kind of feel like, why am I here? This isn't fun, I'm not good at this. We want everyone to feel like they are successful.

[Zachary Crockett]

It usually takes around two to three weeks to design a mini golf course. And once the plans are in place, the project enters a four to six week construction phase. Harris has an in house team of workers that travel all over the world to build courses.

[Sal Conoboy]

These crew members that we have are extremely specialized tradesmen. They're going out there and they're creating art. They have to be able to visualize exactly how the hole is going to play. And then we do a lot of specialized rock work like you would see at Disney or Universal. We recently built a 20 foot volcano in Cape Coral, Florida that shoots a ball of flame 30ft up in the air and has three waterfalls on it as well.

[Zachary Crockett]

How much does a volcano like that cost?

[Sal Conoboy]

All said and done, with the pyrotechnics and everything that has to go into that, there had to be propane tanks put into the ground. It could get up to about 500 to 600,000.

[Zachary Crockett]

Once the site is prepared, the concrete walkways are poured, the water features are installed, and any volcanoes are done. It's time for the turf to go in. And that's an entire specialty in itself.

[Katie Conoboy]

The turf that we select for our courses is a polypropylene turf and it's a commercial grade turf that holds up for seven to 10 years. And that's really important. With the high traffic that the courses are going to see, and then also withstanding any type of weather, rain, snow.

[Sal Conoboy]

And things like that, we use the best miniature golf carpet installers in the world. You know, you wouldn't think that that's a specialty, but it definitely is and we use them.

[Zachary Crockett]

Do you have a rough idea of what it would cost to carpet like an entire 20,000 square foot course?

[Sal Conoboy]

It's probably around $30,000.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's a relatively small part of the overall cost to design and build a mini golf course.

[Katie Conoboy]

It depends on what somebody is looking for. From three holes to 36 holes with all of the bells and whistles. On average, it's around 300,000 to upwards of 2.5 million.

[Zachary Crockett]

And how long does it generally take a new owner to make that upfront investment back?

[Katie Conoboy]

Most of our customers tell us that they're able to pay back their investment within the first two years.

[Zachary Crockett]

So once a course is up and running, what's it like on the other side for the new business owner? That's coming up. The economics of everyday things is sponsored by booking.com if you're looking to grow your vacation rental business, this is the place to be. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world, and for good reason. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can list their properties on booking.com. and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see, right? But once you start listing on booking.com, your property gets seen by a massive global audience of unique travelers. You can register your property in as little as 15 minutes, and nearly half of hosts get their first booking within a week. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen get booked on booking.com the economics of Everyday Things is Sponsored by Rula Finding a therapist online is hard enough, but finding one who actually takes your insurance? That's even harder. Ruala is a healthcare company that makes accessing affordable, high quality mental health care easier. They partner with over 100 insurance plans and match users with licensed in network therapists and psychiatrists nationwide based on their goals, preferences and background. No long wait lists, no frustrating back and forth, just personalized care that fits. Plus, Rula sticks with you throughout your journey, checking in to make sure your care is helping you move forward. Appointments are often available as soon as tomorrow and with most patients paying just $15 per session and sometimes even less, it's care that actually fits your budget too. Thousands are already using Rula for therapy that's high quality, accessible and covered by insurance. Visit rules rula.com everyday to get started. After signing up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Let them know this show sent you that's r u l a.com everyday because mental health care should work with you, not against your budget. The Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by Mint Mobile. Most holiday gifts end up in a drawer or in the back of your closet or accidentally left behind. Not this one. Mint Mobile is offering unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month. That's the best deal of the year, aka the only holiday gift you'll actually use every single day. All Mint Mobile plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. Don't get them socks, get them Premium Wireless for $15 a month. Shop Mint Mobile Unlimited [e-mail] economics that's mintmobile.com economics Limited time offer upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees, extra initial Planned term Only greater than 35 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Capable device required Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com When Mike Matzinger moved to the coastal North Carolina town of Carolina beach six years ago, he was already a seasoned entrepreneur.

[Mike Matzinger]

I started my first business when I was 14 years old. It was just a little lawn business in South Jersey, as a matter of fact, and I'd always knew that I'd wanted to create things and work for myself.

[Zachary Crockett]

He owned a chain of mattress stores, ran one of the biggest poker leagues in the country, started a bar trivia business, and even dabbled in board games.

[Mike Matzinger]

We actually had a top 500 seller on Amazon called Really Karen. And it's a game where you get to go around town and act like a Karen for the day. The more people you make cry, the better chance of winning.

[Zachary Crockett]

After his move, he was looking for a new venture. Sitting on the beach one day, a friend suggested building a mini golf course.

[Mike Matzinger]

I just immersed myself in everything I could learn about the miniature golf business and decided after five days that it was a good chance we were going to do this. One of the things that was very interesting and really kind of turned me on about it was that I didn't have a cost of goods sold. Of course, lose some balls or some putters get broken or the course takes some abuse, but you didn't have to worry about carrying a lot of inventory and the high risk of that. Now it's a huge upfront cost.

[Zachary Crockett]

Of course, that upfront cost started with the land. Some mini golf proprietors lease land. Matsinger chose to buy it outright.

[Mike Matzinger]

It was about $600,000 for the land, for an acre of land.

[Zachary Crockett]

Matzinger then brought in Harris Miniature Golf to design and build his course. He says he paid them around $500,000, but the total cost, including leveling the land and installing underground utilities, was significantly higher. In addition to the 18 holes and the $20,000 animatronic octopus, he chose to put in a two level tiki bar that serves beer and wine. All in, he spent around 2 million. Matzinger's course Surf's up, opened for business earlier this year, and the first decision he had to make was how much to charge for a round of mini golf. In middle America, a course might charge around $10 per person. In a resort town, there's a premium. Carolina beach is a two hour drive from Myrtle Beach, a city that is often called the mini golf capital of the world. The region has more than 30 mini golf courses in a 60 mile stretch. Surf' sup is priced on par with those courses. $15 for adults and $12 for kids.

[Mike Matzinger]

Every weekend during the summer, the doorbell rings and there's the new people. And what do they want to do? They want to play mini golf and they want to go to the beach and they want to go to the aquarium. All the normal things you do when you're on a beach vacation.

[Zachary Crockett]

The next thing he had to do was think about how to manage the flow of foot traffic. It takes around an hour for the average person to play a standard 18 hole mini golf course. And the rule of thumb is that you don't want more than 90 people playing at any given time. That's roughly one party of five at each hole. But Matzinger learned that mini golfers don't always play in an orderly fashion.

[Mike Matzinger]

I did the math. I said, okay, we need to have 90 putters. And when we first opened, my son was there and I get a text, dad, we're out of putters. What I didn't realize was that I only took into consideration there would be 18 groups on the course of the time. I didn't consider group groups waiting in between holes. That was one of those big aha moments. And so I think now we have 200 putters or something. We haven't run out of putters in a long time.

[Zachary Crockett]

In a way, running out of putters is a good problem to have. Each one of those clubs represents a small sliver of revenue.

[Mike Matzinger]

You don't have a huge amount of fixed expenses, so the break even is very, very low on a daily basis. We have to $500 a day to break even for the day. Now that's incredibly low. I'd rather not share our best day, but I will tell you it is significantly higher than that.

[Zachary Crockett]

In many places, including North Carolina, mini golf is a seasonal business.

[Mike Matzinger]

We are six months a year full open, and then six months a year, limited hours. We were an hour wait in the summertime every day. And then as soon as Labor Day hit, it was like this massive depression I was in. Everybody's like, are you okay? I'm like, we're not packed.

[Zachary Crockett]

The typical Harris mini golf course generates $250,000 to $500,000 in revenue per year. And as Matt Singer says, the fixed expenses are pretty low. Most courses only have around two employees on shift at any given time, earning somewhere around minimum wage. And the cost of the equipment is negligible. Your standard mini golf putter, ordered in bulk, runs about $14 and lasts five years. Those classic, colorful balls are around $1 each, and a course can never have too many of them on hand.

[Mike Matzinger]

We have this one hole that people just whack it too hard and it goes through our fence. And we have this massive ditch right next to our course. It's totally overgrown. You don't want to go in there. I don't know what's living in there. And so we always joke that at some point in time, we're going to find $10,000 worth of golf balls in there. You know.

[Zachary Crockett]

The most significant ongoing expense is the maintenance of the course. The water systems that power the ponds and waterfalls generally have to be emptied out two to three times per year. And that fancy $30,000 turf needs constant love and attention.

[Mike Matzinger]

If you're the kind of person that really doesn't like vacuuming your 2,000 square foot home, do not build a mini golf course. All 18 holes get vacuumed twice a week.

[Zachary Crockett]

How long does it take to vacuum the whole course?

[Mike Matzinger]

It takes about an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and a half of straight vacuuming.

[Zachary Crockett]

There aren't any shortcuts for manual labor like this. Mini golf generally isn't a business that can be optimized with technology. Matzinger has experimented with things like digital scorecards, but he says around 80% of his customers still want to write their scores by hand.

[Mike Matzinger]

Part of the mini golf experience is jabbing yourself in the leg with that pencil and figuring out how to carry a beer and a scorecard at the same time. More technology doesn't necessarily make it better. You don't want everybody on their phones, right? You're out there, you're having fun with your friends and family.

[Zachary Crockett]

The social element is also part of the appeal that draws operators like Matzinger to mini golf. Katie and Sal Conoboy, the owners of Harris Miniature Golf, say that the business of designing and building courses has never been better.

[Katie Conoboy]

The demand right now is higher than it's ever been before.

[Zachary Crockett]

Why do you think that is?

[Katie Conoboy]

You know, after Covid, there was a big boom of people wanting these outdoor activities. And once that hit, it hasn't slowed down.

[Sal Conoboy]

People are looking to do something different. You know, they're looking to get out of their normal day to day, and this offers that. You know, running a miniature golf business.

[Zachary Crockett]

Is the dream for Mike Matzinger. There's only one downside. Since building his course, he hasn't had much time to improve his mini golf skills.

[Mike Matzinger]

I hadn't played mini golf in 10 years before I started doing this. I'M there for the fun. If you didn't keep score, it wouldn't matter to me. But no, I am definitely not a very good mini golf player. You don't have to be good at mini golf to open a mini golf course.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the Economics of Everyday things, I'm Zachary Crockett. This episode was produced by me and Sarah Lilly and mixed by Jeremy Johnston. We had help from Daniel Moritz Rapson and special thanks to Drew Heffelfinger for suggesting this topic. All right, until next week.

[Sal Conoboy]

You'll never expect the grandparents out with their grandkids and how competitive that could get.

[Zachary Crockett]

My grandpa used to clean me up on the mini golf course. The Freakonomics Radio Network the Hidden side of Everything Stitcher.

[Sal Conoboy]

I was at a.

[Mike Matzinger]

Chase Sapphire lounge and I saw a burger on the menu.

[Zachary Crockett]

I took a bite and I was.

[Mike Matzinger]

Like, whoa, I think this is one.

[Zachary Crockett]

Of the best burgers ever.

[Katie Conoboy]

Access to Sapphire Airport lounges with Chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding. See More [e-mail] Reserve IT cards issued by JP Morgan Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval Term.

[Sal Conoboy]

Supply chain with Sylvania Seeing better while driving at night starts with you because headlight bulbs dim over time and can lose up to 50ft of visibility before burnout. That's why you shouldn't wait. Upgrade your drive with brighter lights for better visibility on the road ahead. Sylvania's step by step installation video guides make it easier than ever to take control of your nighttime clarity, all without a trip to the mechanic. So before a burnout darkens your day, upgrade to Sylvania and see better.

[Walmart Ad Narrator]

Tonight Tis the season of gifting and holes to deck and the who's in Whoville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled, Walmart's the place to start. And each who added headphones, TVs and games to their carts. With Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry. They cried out, who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.