33. Sex Scenes

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Economics of Everyday Things - "Sex Scenes"

Host: Zachary Crockett (Freakonomics Network)
Air Date: April 23, 2026
Episode: 33

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Overview

This episode explores the hidden world and economics of sex scenes in film and television. Host Zachary Crockett delves into who choreographs these intimate moments, how the industry has changed post-#MeToo, the legal and logistical intricacies behind on-screen intimacy, and the unique role of the intimacy coordinator. Through interviews with Alicia Rodas (pioneering intimacy coordinator) and entertainment lawyer Matthew Swanlund, the episode reveals the technical, emotional, and economic processes that keep actors safe—and studios protected.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Wild West to Choreographed Care

• Historical Approach to Sex Scenes (03:00 - 04:00)

  • Intimate encounters on film were once haphazard, with actors often left unsupported or surprised.
  • Example: In "Last Tango in Paris," actress Maria Schneider was subjected to a surprise sex act for authenticity—an approach widely condemned today.

• Alicia Rodas’s Early Acting Experience (04:00 - 05:08)

  • Sex and nudity were often unplanned: "The expectation would be just to do whatever you felt was right." (Alicia Rodas, 04:33)
  • Lack of communication and structure led to uncomfortable and unsafe environments.

2. Birth of the Intimacy Coordinator Role

• Inspired by Stunt Choreography (05:08 - 05:41)

  • Rodas observed how carefully stunts were planned and supported, prompting her to ask: Why not do this for sex scenes?
  • She collaborated with other actors to create intimacy guidelines.

• Industry Change Post-#MeToo (05:41 - 06:14)

  • The Weinstein scandal and #MeToo movement exposed the urgent need for oversight on set.

• First Major Job: HBO’s "The Deuce" (06:12 - 07:24)

  • Rodas describes her breakthrough, noting the awkwardness of early inquiries into intimacy coordination: "He sort of sounded like he was calling a prostitute." (Alicia Rodas, 06:27)
  • Rodas successfully managed complex scenes and became HBO’s go-to coordinator.

3. The Legal Framework of Intimacy

• Actors Union Protections (07:24 - 09:11)

  • Lawyer Matthew Swanlund outlines that unions prohibit real sex and require physical barriers; everything must be negotiated beforehand.
  • Detailed "nudity riders" specify what’s allowed: "The performer’s left breast will be displayed from the side for no more than three [seconds] on screen." (Matthew Swanlund, 08:20)
  • Westworld's notably explicit rider is cited as an example (09:11 - 09:49).

• Negotiation and Compensation (10:19 - 10:39)

  • Actors receive premium pay for nudity, driven by supply and demand.
  • Body doubles are common when actors do not want to appear nude: Isla Fisher had three for "Wedding Crashers".

4. The Art and Craft of Sex Scene Choreography

• Detailed Preparation (11:40 - 13:14, 14:50 - 16:25)

  • Intimacy coordinator acts as a liaison amidst directors, actors, costumers, and props managers.
  • Every detail is mapped out: from undressing cues (costume department) to prosthetic genitals (prop department).
  • Prosthetics cost $6,500–$9,000 and should match character details—circumcision, body part, etc.

• On-Set Essentials (16:36 - 17:23)

  • Rodas’s kit includes breath mints, antiseptics, mouthwash, tape, and more.

• Ensuring Emotions and Safety (17:23 - 17:40)

  • Ongoing consent checks and role as emotional buffer.
  • Scenes are always contextualized for narrative and character purpose, not just shock.

5. Creative and Cultural Pushback

• Mixed Industry Acceptance (17:58 - 18:27)

  • Some actors and directors resist, fearing spontaneity is lost.
  • Jennifer Aniston famously opted out, saying, "We're seasoned. We can figure this one out." ("Variety", as cited at 17:58)

• Rodas’s Defense (18:27 - 18:54)

  • Compares to choreographed violence: "You could say the same thing about a moment of violence. It still needs to be safe and repeatable." (Alicia Rodas, 18:27)
  • Says her role allows for safe improvisation within clear boundaries.

6. The Economics of Intimacy Coordination

• Reducing Production Risk (18:54 - 19:22)

  • Coordinators speed up shooting and avoid liability, making them an economic asset.
  • "A misjudgment... could then sour the relationship between the actors and the director..." (Alicia Rodas, 19:05)

• Industry Growth and Standardization (19:37 - 19:52)

  • Hundreds of coordinators now work globally.
  • Certification programs are standardizing the profession.

• Union Recognition (19:52 - 20:20)

  • Recent union contracts require studios to make a "best effort" to hire intimacy coordinators, and protect actors who request them from retaliation.
  • "For the first time, they got intimacy coordinators included in the contract.” (Alicia Rodas, 19:59)

7. Changing Audience Tastes and the Future

• Survey: Sex Scenes May Decline (20:20 - 20:59)

  • Nearly half of young viewers (13–24) think there are too many sex scenes.
  • Swanlund suggests legal negotiations over nudity may diminish in the future: “In the next 10, 20, 30 years we have less and less of these types of scenes.” (Matthew Swanlund, 20:50)

• Last Word: Focus on Safety (21:08)

  • "People want to know everyone is safe. They want to know that there is some oversight and that folks are being taken care of." (Alicia Rodas, 21:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Alicia Rodas on Industry Change:

  • "The phone started ringing." (06:12)
    Describing the post-#MeToo demand for intimacy coordinators.

• On the Creative Value of Sex Scenes:

  • "Why is this moment of intimacy here? What does it mean for the characters? What does it mean for the story itself?" (Alicia Rodas, 17:40)

• On Prosthetics:

  • "This character is Jewish and this person is not circumcised." (Alicia Rodas, 15:50)
  • “A high quality prosthetic penis runs between $6,500 and $9,000.” (Zachary Crockett, 16:25)

• On the Profession’s Growth:

  • "Job prospects are higher than ever before...this is something people now have a line item for in their budgets." (Alicia Rodas, 19:37)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• HBO "The Deuce" Orgy Scene — [01:11]
• Industry’s Past Approach to On-Screen Sex — [03:00]
• Birth of Intimacy Guidelines & Role — [05:41]
• Legal Protections & "Nudity Riders" — [07:24], [08:20]
• Westworld’s Extremes — [09:20]
• Body Doubles & Stunt Comparisons — [10:59]
• Scene Planning: From Costumes to Props — [15:00]
• Prosthetic Choices & Economics — [16:25]
• Industry Pushback & Changing Tastes — [17:58], [20:20]
• Union Recognition & Future Trends — [19:52], [20:50]
• Final Word on Safety — [21:08]

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Conclusion

This episode pulls back the curtain on the intricacies, risks, and evolving norms of filming sex scenes. Thanks to pioneers like Alicia Rodas and evolving union standards, the industry now values preparation, clear consent, and professional choreography—for the safety of everyone involved, and the security of the studios. Yet with shifting viewer preferences, the volume and shape of on-screen intimacy may continue to change, making the economics of sex scenes as dynamic as the industry itself.

Transcript

[Alicia Rodas]

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[Zachary Crockett]

Hey, it's Zach. Before we start the show, I just want to let you know that we're covering some adult topics in this episode. If you listen to the show with kids, you might want to skip this one. Okay, on with the show. A few years ago, while working on the HBO TV show the Deuce, Alicia Rodas was assigned the sex scene of a lifetime.

[Alicia Rodas]

There is a scene where one of the characters went into this warehouse and it was filled with folks having sex. And this was a massive day on set where I think we had around 38 background performers who were in different various states of undress. And this director was very specific of like, I think I want a threesome. I think I want a couple of group sex scenes. I want to pass by a couple people maybe getting oral sex. I spent days leading up to the shooting of the scene calling each one of these performers, going through what exactly was expected of them, how we were going to shoot it, making sure there were barriers between the folks that were simulating sex. And it ended up being just a very large strategic dance that we all set in motion that day.

[Zachary Crockett]

Choreographing that kind of dance is Rodis job. She is what the film and television industry calls an intimacy coordinator. She oversees sex scenes or really scenes involving any kind of intimacy, from a simple kiss to a 38 person orgy. And these days, producers for movies and TV shows are increasingly hiring people like her to make sure everyone on set feels comfortable and safe. It's a job that involves prosthetics, pubic hair, wigs, body doubles, emotional counseling, and some very explicit contracts.

[Matthew Swanlund]

There's no or very little romance involved in most of these scenes.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the Freakonomics Radio Network, this is the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. Today, sex scenes for most of the history of cinema, intimate encounters weren't treated with Much sensitivity. For the 1987 film Fatal Attraction, for instance, Michael Douglas and Glenn Close were given alcohol to help them loosen up before their big moments. When filming 1972's Last Tango in Paris, Maria Schneider, who played the female lead, wasn't even told that she was going to shoot a rape scene. Director Bernardo Bertolucci later said he wanted it to be a surprise so that Schneider's terrified reaction would feel more genuine. Alicia Rodas experienced this laissez faire approach for herself. She got her start as an actor in the 90s, and from the beginning she was involved with intimate scenes on camera.

[Alicia Rodas]

The joke in my household from the time I was 13 was that if a show had a slutty best friend or had a prostitute, I was usually gonna be at least called back for it. I had a lower voice. I developed early and just had a more of a character actor sort of look. I was often put in these situations where I had to exude a certain amount of sexuality or I had to bring some sort of intimacy.

[Zachary Crockett]

Most of the time, she says, these scenes weren't planned out.

[Alicia Rodas]

We would just start going and the expectation would be just to do whatever you felt was right. There was a real sort of feeling of just go for it and wanting a sense of authenticity. I was working background for Boardwalk Empire, and at one point I had to be topless. We, you know, are about to like, go up and camera's up and we're about to go and I'm like, so is anyone gonna tell me to take my top off? The communication wasn't there, and people didn't know how to just put plainly and simply what it was they needed.

[Zachary Crockett]

Rodis eventually switched over to stunt work. Each stunt was mapped out in detail by choreographers and other dedicated crew members. For the first time as an actor, she felt supported.

[Alicia Rodas]

They would be checking in with me at the beginning of the day, making sure I know what's going on. Hey, I know you were brought in for a 10 foot high fall. It's actually looking like 12ft. How do you feel about that? What do you think about, you know, this is the padding and this, et cetera. And the good stunt coordinators really made me feel like I was held. I was part of the process.

[Zachary Crockett]

Rodas began to ask why there wasn't a similar system in place for sex scenes. She eventually partnered with two other actors, Tonya Cena and Siobhan Richardson, and wrote up some guidelines for coordinating that kind of sequence. Not long after that, the Harvey Weinstein scandal broke. The Metoo movement emerged, and Hollywood had a moment of reckoning. Producers realized that they needed more oversight on set, particularly for scenes involving nudity and sex.

[Alicia Rodas]

And the phone started ringing.

[Zachary Crockett]

In 2017, Rodas received a call from a producer at HBO. They were looking for an intimacy coordinator to work on the Deuce. It was a show about sex workers in the 1970s.

[Alicia Rodas]

He sort of sounded like he was calling a prostitute. We had a website at the time that described what we did. And he was like, hi, I'm looking at a website and I see you offer a service.

[Zachary Crockett]

Rodas ended up getting hired for the job. And after successfully steering the Deuce through that warehouse orgy and dozens of other sex scenes, she was brought in to oversee intimate scenes across all of HBO's shows. Today, the process of planning a sex scene begins before the show has even even started casting. Any TV show or film that uses union actors has to follow the actors union contract, a 786 page document that lays out everything from travel insurance to the humane treatment of animals on set. It also has a section devoted to nudity. And when actors need help understanding it, they usually turn to someone like Matthew Swanlund.

[Matthew Swanlund]

I am an art and entertainment attorney at Aesthetic Legal in Los Angeles, California.

[Zachary Crockett]

Swanlund has been practicing law for more than 20 years, and during that time, he's negotiated a lot of contracts for actors. He says that the union agreement provides several basic intimacy protections. First off, it strictly prohibits real sex on camera or any kind of direct sexual contact.

[Matthew Swanlund]

Genital to genital contact is not permitted. There has to be a physical barrier in place which prohibits or stops any kind of bodily fluids from being transmitted. You don't usually have two fully nude bodies touching each other in any production.

[Zachary Crockett]

The agreement also gives actors the right to negotiate any nudity or simulated sex before they sign on for a role. That so called nudity rider can get pretty detailed.

[Matthew Swanlund]

The writer can be very, very specific in terms of what does this scene look like, what is the actor expected to do in this scene? Most of them are governed by confidentiality clauses that are never gonna see the light of day. But I can tell you that there are nudity writers that say the performer's left breast will be displayed from the side for no more than three on screen. Or the performer will remove his boxer shorts, exposing full frontal nudity for three seconds. It's somewhat uncomfortable sometimes to draft those and to negotiate those.

[Zachary Crockett]

The craziest nudity rider Swanlund ever saw was from the TV show Westworld. It called for situations that would never fly.

[Matthew Swanlund]

Today, I Have some of the text if you want me to read an interesting section of this. The performer may be required to simulate oral sex with hand to genital touching. Contort to form a table like shape while being fully nude. Pose on all fours while others who are fully nude ride on your back. Ride on someone's back while you are both fully nude or have your genitals painted.

[Zachary Crockett]

These graphic upfront descriptions give actors and their lawyers a chance to go over anything they might not like.

[Matthew Swanlund]

And if there's full frontal or if there's, you know, some element of the nudity that they're not comfortable with, we negotiate that to say, you know, there's nipple covers or there's a modesty garment of some sort for the bottom half, or, you know, the butt crack won't be visible.

[Zachary Crockett]

Swanlund says that actors are typically paid a premium for participating in intimate scenes, particularly scenes that require them to be naked. The director of the 2001 film Swordfish once claimed that leading actor Halle Berry was paid a $500,000 bonus to go topless, though Barry denied it.

[Matthew Swanlund]

If a producer wants a certain actor to be nude, they want that actor to be nude for a reason. There's something that is in demand there. And so that supply, demand dynamic creates an additional compensation element for the actor to pursue.

[Zachary Crockett]

Sometimes actors want to take on a role, but don't want to appear nude on camera. In those cases, the nudity rider might allow for a body double, kind of like a stunt performer, except instead of jumping out of a moving car, they're having simulated sex. In the 2005 comedy the Wedding Crashers, the actor Isla Fisher had body doubles for three different body parts. Once the actors have signed on and their stipulations around sex and nudity have been written up in legalese intimacy coordinator Alicia Rodas becomes a liaison between the actors and the filmmakers. She'll review the nudity riders and talk over the details of each scene with the director.

[Alicia Rodas]

It's just like, okay, so the script says they fall into bed and make love. Tell me everything. What does that look like to you? What are we trying to exude? What's the tone of this? You know, what's the extent of nudity that you're looking for? And we all work artistically and also as technically technicians to figure out what that scene is going to be and then set it up.

[Zachary Crockett]

So after all this preparation, what does it take to make a sex scene work? That's coming up.

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[Zachary Crockett]

For Alicia Rodas, planning a sex scene involves coordination with many different production crews. That starts with the costume department.

[Alicia Rodas]

If they are removing clothes, that's something we want to make sure costumes is looped in on the costume pas and the costumers on set Making sure that they're set up with exactly what's coming off, where it's coming off, how it's coming off.

[Zachary Crockett]

Rodis often works with the prop department, too.

[Alicia Rodas]

Let's say we need a scene where a hand is going onto a penis, then, okay, we're going to need to get a prosthetic of a penis to see the hand on that penis.

[Zachary Crockett]

In the past few years, you might have noticed a lot more full frontal male nudity in movies and on tv. In a lot of cases, what you're seeing is a silicone prosthetic. Sometimes actors don't want to show their actual penis. Other times it doesn't fit the script.

[Alicia Rodas]

I was on a show once where the actor really wanted to get naked. We filmed it and immediately I was like, so this probably isn't going to work for you all. And they were like, what do you mean? I was like, this character is Jewish and this person is not circumcised. That's my job to think about for that prosthetic. I'm going to ask a lot of questions about what kind of prosthetic you're looking for. What's the size, what's the skin tone? I like to give different options for folks because if it's too big, it can be awkward or even be somewhat shaming in a way.

[Zachary Crockett]

In Hollywood, a high quality prosthetic penis runs between $6,500 and $9,000. And that's not the only device you might find in an actor's pants.

[Alicia Rodas]

There are things called camel toe protectors that was actually designed for someone with a vulva to put in their yoga pants to avoid having camel that we rigged in certain ways so that they had more coverage over their genitals when they were performing simulated sex with someone.

[Zachary Crockett]

When actors are shooting a sex scene, Rodas always brings supplies to the set.

[Alicia Rodas]

My kit usually includes a bare minimum of breath mints, breath strips, antiseptic wipes. If it's just a kissing scene, then it's gonna be mouthwash, things like that. And if it's something more involved, usually I'll bring two sided tape and things like that. So that if we need to make sure a garment stays one way, then it stays that way.

[Zachary Crockett]

When she's on set, Rhodas continuously checks in with every actor to make sure everything is okay. She ensures that each movement is safe and clearly communicated. And she thinks about the context of an intimate scene and the purpose it serves in the production.

[Alicia Rodas]

Why is this moment of intimacy here? What does it mean for the characters? What does it mean for the story itself? What are the power dynamics between the performers involved? Because all of that is going to change what is going on and how it is that you're approaching it.

[Zachary Crockett]

Most people are grateful for her interventions, but a few are less receptive. Some directors are wary of relinquishing creative control. And some veteran actors feel like they don't need coaching or supervision. Jennifer Aniston chose not to use an intimacy coordinator for a sex scene with Jon Hamm for the Apple TV series the Morning Show. I'm from the olden days, she told Variety. We're seasoned. We can figure this one out.

[Alicia Rodas]

You know, there's been things in the news of celebrities saying, oh, it takes the spontaneity out of situations, etc. It's like you could say the same thing about a moment of violence. It still needs to be safe and repeatable. There are ways to find a moment of intimacy and a moment of improv. We just make sure that it's within a container. We know what we're not doing so that we know what is open and on the table that we can do.

[Zachary Crockett]

Rodis says there's an economic case for having intimacy coordinators on set. She can help move the production along efficiently and reduce liability for the studio.

[Alicia Rodas]

It's a higher risk situation than just a day at the office filming. A misjudgment of a scene and an issue that could arise could then sour the relationship between the actors and the director or a producer, or between the actors themselves for the rest of your filming.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the most part, it seems like the industry agrees. There are now hundreds of intimacy coordinators working on film and TV sets around the world. And there are certification programs that are helping to standardize the profession.

[Alicia Rodas]

The job prospects are higher than ever before because of the awareness and because this is something that people now have a line item for in their budgets. It's expected from a lot of actors and directors now.

[Zachary Crockett]

The agreement that emerged from the actors strike at the end of 2023 even directly addressed intimacy coordinators.

[Alicia Rodas]

For the first time, they got intimacy coordinators included in the contract. So we are not mandated yet. But the producers have to make a best effort to hire an intimacy coordinator, and an actor cannot be retaliated against if they ask for an intimacy coordinator on set.

[Zachary Crockett]

So the market for intimacy coordinators looks bright, but it's possible they may have fewer scenes to oversee. A recent survey out of UCLA found that nearly half of respondents between the ages of 13 and 24 felt that there were too many gratuitous sex scenes in movies and TV shows. Matthew Swanland, the entertainment attorney, thinks his younger actor clients might have less negotiating to do in their future nudity riders.

[Matthew Swanlund]

It's entirely possible that in the next 10, 20, 30 years we have less and less of these types of scenes.

[Zachary Crockett]

Regardless of what the future holds, Alicia Rodas will be there to make sure everything goes smoothly.

[Alicia Rodas]

People want to know everyone is safe. They want to know that there is some oversight and that folks are being taken care of.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the economics of everyday things, I'm Zachary Crockett. This episode was produced by Sarah Lilly and mixed by Jeremy Johnston. We had additional help from Daniel Moritz Rapson.

[Matthew Swanlund]

It has happened. After the scene is completely shot, the performer says, I made a mistake. I never should have done that. My grandmother's gonna be horrified.

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[Alicia Rodas]

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