The Economics of Everyday Things – Episode 6: T. rex Skeletons
Host: Zachary Crockett (Freakonomics Radio Network)
Date: January 19, 2026
Overview
This episode explores the fascinating and sometimes controversial world of Tyrannosaurus rex skeletons: how they’re found, who gets to own and sell them, and the surprising economic forces at play. Host Zachary Crockett digs into the business of dinosaur fossils—examining how discoveries have moved from academic, scientific pursuits into a lucrative marketplace, and what that shift means for museums, private collectors, scientists, and the public’s understanding of prehistoric life.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Auction That Shook the Fossil World
[00:57–02:01]
- In 2020, Christie’s auctioned a T. rex skeleton named Stan, which sold for nearly $32 million—five times its estimated price.
- This event spotlighted the astonishing market value of dinosaur fossils and the growing excitement (and anxiety) around their sales.
Quote:
“Stan was 25,000 person hours. That's a lot of work. And you know, somebody has to pay for that.”
—Peter Larson, [02:01]
2. Where T. rexes Come From: Finding Dinosaurs
[02:10–03:23]
- Most T. rex fossils come from the Hell Creek Formation (Montana, Wyoming, Dakotas) and are roughly 66 million years old.
- Peter Larson and Dr. Thomas Carr explain that while some land is public (with strict fossil protections), much is private, leading to different rules.
Quote:
“The purpose of collecting fossils on public land is to collect them for science and education. At no point is contact made with the market.”
—Thomas Carr, Ph.D., [03:41]
3. The Wild West of Private Fossil Hunting
[04:09–05:59]
- On private land, “it’s really a free for all,” says Dr. Carr. Fossils can be bought and sold by whoever finds them.
- Peter Larson and Clayton Phipps are key figures in this commercial fossil world. They negotiate splits with landowners (10–50% of value), invest heavily in excavation, and sometimes make or lose money on finds.
Quote:
“If a person finds a dinosaur, they can do whatever they want with it.”
—Thomas Carr, Ph.D., [04:13]
“We come up with a value based upon market prices... that can be anywhere from 10%... to as much as 50% if you've got a nice T. Rex skeleton on your Ground.”
—Peter Larson, [05:41]
4. From Discovery to Dollars: The Business of Dinosaur Bones
[06:28–08:09]
- Excavation and preparation can take years and cost more than a million dollars.
- The value of a T. rex skeleton is primarily in its completeness and condition; full specimens are extremely rare.
- The “Sue” T. rex saga highlighted the legal and financial complexities—involving Native American land rights, federal agents, and a record-setting $8.4 million museum sale (with sponsors like McDonald’s and Disney).
Quote:
“No one has ever found a fully intact specimen. But Larson came close... They named it Sue. Sue came with some drama.”
—Zachary Crockett, [06:56]
5. The Modern Fossil Hunters: Dreams and Disappointments
[08:34–10:09]
- The “Sue” sale inspired amateurs and professionals (“dinosaur dreamers”) to hunt for fossils as livelihood.
- Cowboy-turned-hunter Clayton Phipps shares his journey—selling a skull for “about a year’s wages,” struggling for years to sell a T. rex find.
Quote:
“If I had a dollar for every step I've ever taken looking for a dinosaur, or even probably a dime, I may be better off. Now I'm back to, yep, let's find another one.”
—Clayton Phipps, [13:07]
6. The Challenge of Selling Fossils
[12:33–13:17]
- Even rare, spectacular fossils can be a hard sell; museums mostly buy, but they are often underfunded.
- Phipps sold his “Dueling Dinosaurs” fossil to the North Carolina Museum of Natural Sciences for $6 million after nearly two decades.
7. Who Profits (and How): The Business of Fossil Replicas
[13:17–15:05]
- Peter Larson didn’t profit from Stan’s $32 million sale due to a family business dispute, but did retain intellectual property rights—and has built a major business selling museum-grade casts for $120,000 each.
- “There are Stans all over the place,” including museums in Japan, India, and private homes.
- The celebrity market: The Rock (Dwayne Johnson) has a plastic “Stan” skull.
Quote:
“No two people prepare a bone the same... It's all art. And so we have a registered copyright and we trademarked the name.”
—Peter Larson, [13:59]
“A Stan full mounted cast sells for $120,000... That's a bargain compared to, you know, $32 million.”
—Zachary Crockett & Peter Larson, [14:39–14:42]
“If you build a living room big enough to hold the dinosaur, that cost you way more than a dinosaur.”
—Nathan Myhrvold, [15:28]
8. The Collector’s World: Billionaires & Dinosaur Dreams
[15:05–16:34]
- Collector Nathan Myhrvold (former CTO, Microsoft) recounts being part of an unusual club of private fossil owners—with the likes of Leonardo DiCaprio and Nicolas Cage.
- Myhrvold is unique in that he both funds scientific digs and collects fossils.
9. The Impact on Science: An Existential Threat
[16:34–18:41]
- Myhrvold grants $500,000/year to research, supporting about 10 T. rex discoveries—helping public science compete.
- Dr. Carr and many paleontologists see private sales as a threat: over 60% of T. rex fossils are found and sold outside the public trust, which reduces sample sizes for research and means rare fossils (like Deinonychus) disappear into private homes.
Quote:
“Our natural heritage is just being auctioned off for top dollar. And that's a problem for science because to really understand nature... we have to have a high sample size.”
—Thomas Carr, Ph.D., [18:13]
“It took only 33 years for the commercial folks to collect more T Rexes than public Trust collected in 130 years. It's an existential threat.”
—Thomas Carr, Ph.D., [18:13]
10. Commercial Hunters Respond
[19:07–19:32]
- Peter Larson counters: fossils left in the ground may be destroyed by erosion; commercial sales incentivize their recovery and fairly compensate landowners.
Quote:
“The scientists should be happy that these other fossils are being saved because you cannot leave a fossil in the ground and expect it to survive... I cannot fault someone for capitalizing an asset... especially farmers and ranchers. They need to be paid for these things.”
—Peter Larson, [19:07]
11. The True Value of Dinosaur Bones
[19:32–end]
- For Carr, the ultimate value isn’t in the monetary figure but in discovery and knowledge: the lessons bones can teach about the past.
Quote:
“They may not be worth $32 million, but the real value, he says, is what they can teach us.”
—Zachary Crockett, summarizing Thomas Carr, [19:32]
Notable Quotes & Moments
-
On the thrill and agony of the market:
“Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. We've done projects where we've actually lost money on them just because we underestimate the amount of time it was going to take.”
—Peter Larson, [06:46] -
On building a home for a T. rex skeleton:
“If you build a living room big enough to hold the dinosaur, that cost you way more than a dinosaur.”
—Nathan Myhrvold, [15:28] -
On the intersection of science and commerce:
“Our natural heritage is just being auctioned off for top dollar.”
—Thomas Carr, Ph.D., [18:13]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Auction and Stan’s record price: [00:57–02:01]
- Science vs. Commerce on public vs. private land: [03:23–04:25]
- Life as a commercial fossil hunter: [04:45–07:00]
- The saga of Sue and legal tussles: [07:00–08:34]
- Dinosaur hunting as livelihood (Phipps): [08:42–10:09]
- The replica business and celebrity ownership: [13:59–15:28]
- The impact on science and ethics in paleontology: [16:34–19:32]
Closing Tone
The episode blends humor, curiosity, and admiration for both the business and science of dinosaur fossils. It spotlights quirky personalities, bitter courtroom dramas, and the wonders that lie underground—while leaving listeners to ponder the future of our priceless prehistoric heritage.
Memorable Closing
“How many times do you get to meet the world’s foremost expert on dinosaur vomit?”
—Nathan Myhrvold, [20:21]