Podcast Summary: The Economics of Everyday Things – Episode 7: Animal Urine

Podcast: The Economics of Everyday Things
Host: Zachary Crockett (Freakonomics Network)
Episode Title: Animal Urine
Release Date: January 22, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores the surprising industry built around animal urine—a substance most consider waste, but which savvy entrepreneurs and homeowners view as both a potent commercial product and an all-natural pest control solution. Journalist Zachary Crockett investigates how animal urine goes from zoos and game farms to bottles on store shelves, who buys it, and why its demand is soaring for uses ranging from garden protection to airport rabbit control.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Aroma of Opportunity: Meet the "PE Man" (01:02–02:08)

• Ken Johnson (aka "the PE Man") is an entrepreneur behind the company PredatorPee.com, specializing in predator animal urines.
• Johnson describes himself as a connoisseur, likening the aromatic notes of different urines to wine tasting.
  • "Mountain lion is my favorite. It has a very unique burnt umber smell. The wolf has the darkest color. The smell is rich and it has, I would say, notes of earth."
    — Ken Johnson (01:10)
  • "In a crude way, to me, it's the smell of money."
    — Ken Johnson (01:46)

2. Origins: From Hunter's Trick to Market Opportunity (03:17–04:35)

• Johnson's original client, Wayne Bossowitz, bottled animal urine as hunting scent in the 1980s.
• Animal pee serves as both an attractant (for hunters) and a camouflage, helping hunters mask their human scent.
  • "Foxes are naturally occurring animals in the same territory as a deer, but they're not a predator of a deer. So deer, when they smell a fox, there's no concern."
    — Ken Johnson (04:09)

3. A Whole New Market: Suburban Gardeners & Rising Deer Populations (05:05–06:20)

• Johnson realizes a huge market exists beyond hunting: home gardeners fighting rabbits and deer.
  • "That’s a light bulb moment. I realized that urine is a communications player in the wild."
    — Ken Johnson (05:05)
• Surging deer populations (from 300,000 in 1900 to 32 million in 2020) have made deer a nuisance in suburban America, causing $250 million annual damage in landscaping across just 13 states.

4. Predator Urine as Pest Deterrent: Products and Sourcing (06:20–09:11)

• Coyote urine is marketed for deterring deer; wolf urine, for driving away coyotes; and other animal urines (fox, skunk, bobcat, mountain lion, bear) each target specific pests.
  • "The wolf is the alpha. Deep down, a coyote knows the smell of wolf urine is a problem."
    — Ken Johnson (08:09)
• Sourcing: Urine is collected from zoos, game farms, and refuges using floor drains and shipped in 55-gallon drums.
  • "They collect the urine with a floor drain and they ship it to us. And that’s about it. It’s not very complicated."
    — Ken Johnson (08:59)
• The industry is sizable: about $200,000 monthly sales on Amazon alone for coyote and wolf urine.

5. Who Buys Animal Urine? Japan, Airports, and Homeowners (11:30–13:57)

• International demand is strong: A major distributor in Japan uses predator urine to keep wild boar out of rice paddies.
• Denver International Airport used "Peashots" canisters to deter rabbits from eating soy-based car wires in parked cars (12:01).
• Majority of customers are U.S. homeowners seeking nontoxic solutions for gardens and chicken coops.
  • "They buy a hundred dollars worth of pee to keep raccoons out of the chicken coop or discourage chipmunks from foraging for butter lettuce in the garden."
    — Zachary Crockett (12:23)

6. Does It Work? Science & Psychology of Urine-Based Deterrents (12:53–13:37)

• Studies show mixed results: Bobcat urine reduced groundhog damage to apple trees by up to 98%, but leopard pee was ineffective against rodents.
• Some customers simply like using a natural pest deterrent rather than chemical products.
  • "Here’s an all natural product that takes animals’ natural instinct and puts it to work for your customers."
    — Ken Johnson (13:28)

7. Offbeat Uses and The Future of Pee (13:37–14:09)

• Beyond pest control:
  • Pranks (bottles sent to friends, ex-spouses, lawyers).
  • Retailers spray storefronts to dissuade loiterers.
• Family business: Johnson's daughter and son-in-law are set to take over.
  • "It supported our family for 37 years and now my daughter and her husband are in the process of taking it over. It’s been good to us."
    — Ken Johnson (14:09)

8. Logistics: Shipping Animal Urine (14:40–14:51)

• Shipping is handled carefully to avoid unpleasant accidents:
  • "We’re very careful in our packing and everything because the mailman would not like it to burst open in his truck."
    — Ken Johnson (14:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "In a crude way, to me, it's the smell of money." — Ken Johnson (01:46)
• "That’s a light bulb moment. I realized that urine is a communications player in the wild." — Ken Johnson (05:05)
• "Coyote urine is one of our two best sellers. The other one: wolf." — Zachary Crockett (07:47)
• On product sourcing: "They collect the urine with a floor drain and they ship it to us. And that’s about it. It’s not very complicated." — Ken Johnson (08:59)
• On animal instincts: "Here’s an all natural product that takes animals’ natural instinct and puts it to work for your customers." — Ken Johnson (13:28)
• On unusual customers: "We’ve had people send it to their ex wives, to their ex wives’ lawyers or to their current wives’ lawyers." — Ken Johnson (13:57)

Important Timestamps

• 01:02 – Introduction of Ken Johnson, “the PE Man”
• 03:17 – Origins of using animal urine for hunting camouflage
• 05:05 – Shift from hunting to home & garden market
• 06:20 – Coyote/wolf urine as pest deterrent, industry growth
• 08:59 – Collection and logistics of animal urine
• 11:30 – Major customers: Japan, airports, and homeowners
• 12:53 – Scientific studies on effectiveness
• 13:37 – Strange and humorous uses for animal urine
• 14:09 – Johnson discusses family legacy and succession
• 14:40 – Careful shipping to avoid leaks

Conclusion

This episode pulls back the curtain on the decidedly unglamorous but unexpectedly thriving industry of animal urine as a pest repellent and commercial product. What began as a hunter’s trade secret has become a lucrative niche business, fueled by both rising suburban wildlife encounters and the appeal of natural solutions. Through quirky anecdotes and economic insight, Zachary Crockett reveals that sometimes, one man’s waste is truly another man’s treasure.