84. Mall Cops

Summary

Summary of Podcast Episode 84: "Mall Cops"

The Economics of Everyday Things
Host: Zachary Crockett
Guest: Gus Parsons, Veteran Mall Cop
Release Date: March 17, 2025
Produced by: Freakonomics Network & Zachary Crockett

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1. Introduction to Mall Cops

In this episode, journalist Zachary Crockett delves into the world of mall security, exploring the role and significance of mall cops within America's retail landscape. Malls, often seen as the epitome of capitalism and consumerism, are not just centers for shopping and entertainment but also hubs where a wide spectrum of human behavior unfolds. Ensuring safety and order in these bustling environments necessitates the presence of mall security personnel.

2. Interview with Veteran Mall Cop: Gus Parsons

Crockett speaks with Gus Parsons, a seasoned mall security officer with two decades of experience in San Diego's shopping centers. Parsons provides an insider's perspective on the daily life of a mall cop, highlighting both the mundane and unexpected aspects of the job.

Notable Quote:
"If you ever met me, I'm five'eleven, $300, you know, bald headed, 40. I'm not approachable by any means."
— Gus Parsons [01:37]

3. The Private Security Industry and Economics

Private security is a massive industry in the United States, with approximately 1.2 million security officers nationwide and a market valuation of $48 billion. Mall security constitutes a portion of this sector, where companies like Allied Universal dominate, employing tens of thousands and managing security operations across numerous malls.

Notable Quote:
"There are 1.2 million of them in the United States, more than all police forces combined. Private security is a $48 billion industry in the United States."
— Zachary Crockett [02:17]

Mall owners typically outsource security to these firms, which charge retailers a markup over the guards' wages. This cost is then passed on to the retailers, ranging from $3 to $10 per square foot, depending on the mall's size, location, and crime rates.

4. Roles and Responsibilities of Mall Cops

Mall security officers perform a variety of duties aimed at maintaining a safe and pleasant environment for shoppers. Their responsibilities include:

• Customer Service: Assisting shoppers with directions, lost items, and general inquiries.
• Monitoring: Keeping an eye on parking lots, security cameras, and common areas.
• Enforcement: Upholding the mall's code of conduct, such as managing unruly behavior or minor disturbances.
• Reporting: Documenting daily activities and incidents through detailed reports.

Notable Quote:
"Their function is to patrol what's called a common area. Those concourses between the stores in a mall and the parking lots or parking garages. And they're a visible presence to try to deter disruptive or criminal behavior."
— David Levenberg [05:58]

5. Limitations and Challenges Faced by Mall Cops

Despite their visible presence, mall cops often operate with limited authority compared to traditional law enforcement. They typically do not possess police powers, restricting their ability to intervene directly in criminal activities. Instead, their role is primarily observational, gathering information and relaying it to the police when necessary.

Notable Quote:
"You're not allowed to do any hands on. You're not a law enforcement type person. You basically just observe and report."
— Gus Parsons [02:52]

This limitation stems from both legal restrictions and liability concerns faced by security firms, which have led to a cautious approach in mall security operations to avoid incidents like false arrests or excessive force.

6. Technology in Mall Security

Modern malls employ a range of technological solutions to aid security operations. These include:

• Surveillance Cameras: Extensive coverage of mall premises to monitor activity.
• Facial Recognition: Enhancing the ability to identify known offenders or suspicious individuals.
• License Plate Scanning: Managing parking security and tracking vehicles.
• Autonomous Security Robots: Though still experimental, robots like Knightscope units offer supplementary surveillance capabilities.

Notable Quote:
"Today's malls are retrofitted with hundreds of cameras. And there's usually a control room somewhere in the bowels of the building where an operator is watching live footage on dozens of split screen monitors."
— Zachary Crockett [19:05]

7. Cultural Perception and Impact

The portrayal of mall cops in media has significantly influenced public perception. The 2009 comedy film Paul Blart: Mall Cop, featuring an overweight and bumbling security guard, has left a lasting impression, often leading to ridicule and underestimation of real-life mall security officers.

Notable Quote:
"We were more of a target after that. Now they can take all these jokes out of the movie. And because I'm a bigger guy, I knew that I was going to be called Paul Blair."
— Gus Parsons [20:45]

This cultural stereotype exacerbates the challenges faced by mall cops, making them targets for mockery and undermining their authority in the eyes of some mall patrons.

8. Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

Parsons shares various experiences from his tenure, illustrating the diverse and often unexpected nature of mall security work. From dealing with high-end shoplifters to managing non-threatening yet disruptive behavior, the job requires adaptability and resilience.

Notable Quote:
"I've seen the most clean-cut mom like you think she was on the PTA...and she's like, bye, thank you for this $20,000 purse."
— Gus Parsons [16:59]

Despite the challenges, Parsons finds value in the role, citing financial stability and mall discounts as perks that compensate for the job's demands.

9. Conclusion and Insights

The episode underscores the complex economics behind mall security, balancing costs, responsibilities, and the limitations imposed on private security personnel. While mall cops play a crucial role in deterring and managing incidents within shopping centers, their effectiveness is constrained by legal and structural boundaries. Advances in technology offer new tools for enhancing security, but the human element remains indispensable.

Parsons' reflections highlight the personal dimension of mall security work—navigating public perceptions, maintaining professionalism, and adapting to evolving challenges. Overall, the episode paints a comprehensive picture of the multifaceted world of mall cops, shedding light on an often-overlooked aspect of everyday life.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• "If you ever met me, I'm five'eleven, $300, you know, bald headed, 40. I'm not approachable by any means." — Gus Parsons [01:37]
• "There are 1.2 million of them in the United States, more than all police forces combined. Private security is a $48 billion industry in the United States." — Zachary Crockett [02:17]
• "Their function is to patrol what's called a common area..." — David Levenberg [05:58]
• "You're not allowed to do any hands on..." — Gus Parsons [02:52]
• "Today's malls are retrofitted with hundreds of cameras..." — Zachary Crockett [19:05]
• "We were more of a target after that..." — Gus Parsons [20:45]
• "I've seen the most clean-cut mom like you think she was on the PTA..." — Gus Parsons [16:59]

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This episode of The Economics of Everyday Things provides an insightful exploration into the economics and realities of mall security, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the challenges and dynamics faced by those who work behind the scenes to maintain safety in America's malls.

Transcript

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[Zachary Crockett]

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[David Levenberg]

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[Gus Parsons]

Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.

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[Zachary Crockett]

It's human.

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[Zachary Crockett]

There is no greater bastion of capitalism than the American shopping mall. It's a place where in the course of an afternoon, you can buy a pair of crocs, eat a Cinnabon, and test out a pina colada scented lotion at Bath and Body Works. But it's also a place where the full spectrum of human behavior is on display. A place that calls for protection. And out on the concourse, scanning the crowds for suspicious activity, a guy like Gus Parsons is heeding the call.

[Gus Parsons]

If you ever met me, I'm five'eleven £300, you know, bald headed, 40. I'm not approachable by any means.

[Zachary Crockett]

Parsons is a veteran mall cop. He spent 20 years on and off working as a security guard at shopping centers in San Diego.

[Gus Parsons]

We would dress like the normal knockoff cop. Sometimes we'd have to wear those little fake mountie hats. I carried a radio. I carried a glass breaker, handcuffs, extra handcuff keys. Some malls wanted you to wear a utility belt, but there was no utility. The only thing that would be on the belt is a flashlight.

[Zachary Crockett]

Private security officers are a common sight for Americans. We encounter them at airports, grocery stores, gas stations, office buildings and banks. There are 1.2 million of them in the United States, more than all police forces combined. Private security is a $48 billion industry in the United States. And while mall security only makes up a fraction of that market, it's a strange calling. Mall guards are there to provide a sense of public safety, but they often don't have the authority to enforce it.

[Gus Parsons]

You're not allowed to do any hands on. You're not a law enforcement type person. You basically just observe and report. It's a mall job. It's eight hours worth of nothing. And you get to walk around and lose some weight. And that's about it.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the Freakonomics radio network. This is the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. Today mall cops. A lot of malls have closed in recent years, but they're still a significant part of America's retail landscape. There are more than a thousand enclosed shopping malls and tens of thousands of smaller strip malls and commercial centers in the U.S. most major cities have at least one mega mall, a Goliath complex of shops, department stores, restaurants and movie theaters where you can waste a Saturday afternoon. But where you might see a convenient place to get some errands done. Someone like David Levenberg sees a minefield.

[David Levenberg]

A large shopping center may have 10 to 15 to 20 million people a year come through. And when you have that many people in one location, something is bound to happen.

[Zachary Crockett]

Levenberg is the owner of Center Security Services, a consulting agency that helps malls and other commercial properties assess risk. He says that all kinds of things can go down in a mall.

[David Levenberg]

There might be auto burglaries or auto thefts in the parking lot. Could be assaults or fights, major thefts, homicides, kidnapping, rape.

[Zachary Crockett]

The Department of Homeland Security even classifies malls as a soft target, which means.

[David Levenberg]

Someplace easy to get into. An area that a potential terrorist might target because of the amount of people in one confined space.

[Zachary Crockett]

Now a mall is essentially just a piece of real estate with a bunch of storefronts that are leased out to retailers. Each retailer in the mall is responsible for what happens inside of its own store. And many of them hire their own private security to protect their merchandise. Bigger stores may even have a whole team of loss prevention officers roaming around inside watching for shoplifters. But the areas outside the stores, the walkways, the atriums, the escalators, those are the mall owners responsibility. In most jurisdictions they're required to provide a reasonably safe environment for patrons. And that means hiring mall cops.

[David Levenberg]

Their function is to patrol what's called a common area. Those concourses between the stores in a mall and the parking lots or parking garages. And they're a visible presence to try to deter disruptive or criminal behavior.

[Zachary Crockett]

Most malls choose to work with an outside security firm that hires, trains and provides guards. There are hundreds of these companies to choose from, but the industry giant is Allied Universal. They're the third largest non government employer In North America, trailing only Walmart and Amazon. A company like Allied will sign a deal with the mall developers corporate security department. It'll pay its guards an hourly wage, typically around $18, and then charge them all a marked up rate for their services.

[David Levenberg]

The markup over wages when I was in the industry was 41, 42%. But the larger you are and the more business you give to a particular vendor, the more leverage you have to negotiate a lower markup.

[Zachary Crockett]

Every mall's security needs are different. The property's size, location and historical crime rates determine its budget.

[David Levenberg]

For guards, I've seen as low as $100,000 a year for a small, quiet property, up to several million dollars a year for a very large busy property.

[Zachary Crockett]

The mall owner usually offsets this bill by passing the cost onto the retailers who rent the space there.

[David Levenberg]

The mall calculates what are all my common area expenses every year, and that would include janitorial service, maintenance, security, and then they calculate a dollar per square foot charge to a retailer.

[Zachary Crockett]

For a retailer, that cost can be anywhere from $3 to $10 per square foot. Levenberg says that investment can pay off.

[David Levenberg]

The mall owners understand that if my customers feel safe coming here, they're going to come more frequently. They're going to spend longer time here, and that translates into dollars in the pocket.

[Zachary Crockett]

The presence of mall security may make some people feel safe, but when things go wrong, many guards don't have the legal authority to physically get involved.

[David Levenberg]

Typically, the security officer is no different than any citizen. They don't have any police powers. If they observe a crime being committed legally, they could make a citizen's arrest, detain an individual, and hold them for the police.

[Zachary Crockett]

Most guards are instructed not to pursue that option. Security firms are often held liable for any security related issue that arises at the mall. Over the years, they've had to pay out millions of dollars in settlements and verdicts. Due to false arrests and excessive force, most firms tend to shy away from intervention.

[David Levenberg]

Employers and the owners of the shopping center say, we don't want you to get involved. We want you to simply observe, gather information, give it to the police when they arrive, and help them with their investigation.

[Zachary Crockett]

So what exactly does a mall cop do all day?

[Gus Parsons]

I'm not saying I'm a lazy employee, but if you're not a stoner as a security guard, I think you're doing it wrong.

[Zachary Crockett]

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[Zachary Crockett]

The Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by NetSuite. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Rates will rise or fall. Inflation's up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one Cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com everydaythings the guide is free to you at netsuite.com everyday things netsuite.com everyday things Gus Parsons first got into the security business in the late 90s. At the age of 18, he started out patrolling at sporting events. But that changed when a friend called him with a different opportunity.

[Gus Parsons]

He's like, hey, I have a full time security job at the mall. Do you want to come check it out? I said, sure, why not?

[Zachary Crockett]

In most states, security guards have to go through an eight hour training course to get a guard card, the same basic certification required to be a bouncer at a bar. Once they pass, they can apply to be a mall security guard with a private company. And depending on the company, they might have to go through another set of training protocols. Or maybe they won't.

[Gus Parsons]

The hiring process is a cakewalk. You'll go in with a group, you'll do a group interview, you'll do a group test. It's like, can you breathe? Yeah. Can you count the 10? Yeah. And that's pretty much it.

[Zachary Crockett]

During his 20 years in mall security, Parsons says he encountered the same recurring cast of characters.

[Gus Parsons]

We have what's called the pant booters. Those are the security guards that tuck their pants into their boots and, you know, they've been there a while and they're protecting them all like it's their own house. There's the old guys that were in the military and bring the military with them. They like to assert their stuff and show off their walkie talkies. And then you have the lazy security guards who just don't care. Those are the guys that like to get in trouble a little bit and they make the job more fun.

[Zachary Crockett]

Parsons says he fell into the latter camp, whether that was sneaking off to the movie theater or taking the occasional nap on the job for his work. Parsons says he was paid around $20 an hour, but he had ways of supplementing his income.

[Gus Parsons]

If you can work the system right with a mall cop, man, you can get in good. I've had some people tip me quite well.

[Zachary Crockett]

Was that a common side hustle of security guards, in your experience?

[Gus Parsons]

100%. We're the ones that have to call the tow truck companies, like, hey, man, you could park right here. Don't worry, just 20 bucks.

[Zachary Crockett]

Watching a movie on the job or taking the occasional bribe is relatively harmless compared to the behavior of Parsons peers. Mall security guards have been caught macing people in the face, doing donuts in the parking lots, and even allegedly recording women in bathrooms. But most guards are happy just sticking to the monotony of the daily routine. A mall security guard has a few recurring duties. A big part of the job is customer service, telling shoppers where the bathrooms are, or helping them find a lost cell phone. They keep an eye on parking lots, monitor security cameras in the back room, and enforce the mall's code of conduct, say, reprimanding a teenager on a skateboard. At many malls, they patrol around the perimeter of the property, Scanning a wand or other handheld device at designated spots to create a digital footprint of where they've been. They also have to write up daily activity reports chronicling all of the things they encounter on their shift.

[Gus Parsons]

It's just the pass down of what happened today. Like, hey, such and such is being a nuisance over at the jewelry store. Just keep an eye on that.

[Zachary Crockett]

While on the job, Parsons and his colleagues would communicate on radios, Often in a shorthand, liberally based on police codes.

[Gus Parsons]

There's 1011-021031-04105, 10 6, 10, 10 19, baby. 10 19.

[Zachary Crockett]

What's a 10 19?

[Gus Parsons]

That's the bathroom break. 1020 is where you're at. Code four is basically, it's all good. Blue code was someone was not breathing. I have been in a code blue situation a few times because of the food court, you know, someone choking up there. There's a few codes that I don't care what kind of security guard you are, you will perk up, you will do your job. And code blue is definitely one of them.

[Zachary Crockett]

A coat of blue isn't the only thing that perks up a mall guard. The dull days walking the perimeter and napping in the parking lot are broken up by small moments of action. For starters, there's the occasional lost child.

[Gus Parsons]

You got hysterical parents. A lot of the time, the kid would either be in the same store and just like camped out somewhere, Just kind of like hiding or in the toy section.

[Zachary Crockett]

Then there are the crimes, fights, domestic disputes, threats, and most commonly, theft. Parsons contended with shoplifters on a weekly basis.

[Gus Parsons]

I've seen the most clean cut mom like you think she was on the PTA and, you know, Mrs. Soccer mom herself. And she's over here reaching over the counter, grabbing jewelry. I had grandparents stealing high end purses. The lady would walk right out in front of everybody, and then people like, oh, bye, have a good day. And she's like, bye, thank you for this $20,000 purse. I had a kid directly look at me in the face and ask me, do you work for the mall? I said, why? He said, if you work for the mall, you can't even chase me. And he literally just jacked a bunch of gucci belts in front of me and just walked out.

[Zachary Crockett]

Parsons says that when he first started working mall security back in the late 90s, he had more leeway to apprehend unruly mall patrons.

[Gus Parsons]

You could chase them down, grab them, arrest them, you know, hog time and throw them in the back. At one point, we were actually allowed to use a baton to defend ourselves and have pepper spray on us.

[Zachary Crockett]

But by the end of his tenure, Parsons, like most small cops, was under strict orders to let those kids with Gucci belts run away.

[Gus Parsons]

We can't touch them and we can't chase them. Most of the training is to get height, weight, hair color, stuff like that. That's pretty much all you're doing. You're just trying to get as much information as you can to pass it on and then that's it, case closed.

[Zachary Crockett]

David Levenberg, the security consultant, says most retailers and malls they operate out of have a certain protocol in place.

[David Levenberg]

Normally the retailer is going to let the shoplifter exit the store because they want to be able to show that they passed all cash registers, all points of sale, had no intention to pay for that item that they've stuck down their pants. The mall dispatcher will send patrol to standby in that area to simply act as more of a deterrent, more of a show of force, which hopefully would dissuade the shoplifters from fighting or trying to run.

[Zachary Crockett]

Most small cops have a little help in the form of technology. Today's malls are retrofitted with hundreds of cameras. And there's usually a control room somewhere in the bowels of the building where an operator is watching live footage on dozens of split screen monitors.

[David Levenberg]

The technology that's available today can detect and alert the operator to unusual activity. There's a lot of things behind the scenes that people may not be aware of.

[Zachary Crockett]

Malls have experimented with facial recognition, license plate scanning technology in parking garages, and even robots. Companies like Knightscope rent out autonomous security guards that look like giant roombas for around $9 an hour. Although the product still isn't perfect. A few years ago at a California Mall, a 5 foot tall 300 pound RoboCop allegedly knocked down a toddler and ran over his foot. For the most part, though, malls still prefer human guards, ideally humans with thick skin. Security guards are still dealing with the fallout from the 2009 movie Paul Mall cop. In it, comedian Kevin James portrays a failed police officer who becomes a security guard at a mall in New Jersey. He's overweight and clumsy, riding around on a segway while guzzling pixie sticks.

[David Levenberg]

Okay, ladies need to see some id? No you don't.

[Zachary Crockett]

Gus Parsons says the film gave teenage Jamal goers a whole new catalog of heckling material.

[Gus Parsons]

We were more of a target after that. Now they can take all these jokes out of the movie. And because I'm a bigger guy, I knew that I was going to be called Paul Blair. But it's either you embrace the or you don't. And if you don't, then this might not be the job for you. Because mall security is definitely a targeted job for bullies.

[Zachary Crockett]

But at the end of the day, shrugging it off is just another part of the job.

[Gus Parsons]

Mall security has definitely always gotten a bad perception like, oh, you fake security guards, fake mall cops and stuff like that. They just completely clown on the whole security guard thing. I've never minded that because, you know, we're still getting paid. I still get a check. I still get a discount at the mall at Mrs. Field, so I'm okay.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the economics of everyday things, I'm Zachary Crockett. This episode was produced by me and Sarah Lilly and mixed by Jeremy Johnston. We had help from Daniel Moritz Rapson.

[Gus Parsons]

I've seen people defacing property with their butt. You know, I've seen a lot man.

[Zachary Crockett]

The Freakonomics Radio Network the hidden side.

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[Zachary Crockett]

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