87. Ski Areas

Summary

The Economics of Everyday Things: Episode 87 - Ski Areas
Hosted by Zachary Crockett, Freakonomics Network & Zachary Crockett
Release Date: April 7, 2025

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Introduction to the Ski Industry

In Episode 87 of The Economics of Everyday Things, journalist Zachary Crockett delves into the intricate world of ski areas, unraveling the economic dynamics that sustain these winter recreational hubs. The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of both independent ski resorts and conglomerate-owned giants, exploring their operational challenges, revenue streams, and the community impact they foster.

Independent vs. Conglomerate Ski Areas

Rob Goodell, Chief Operating Officer of Loveland Ski Area near Silverthorne, Colorado, opens the discussion by painting a vivid picture of the ski industry's complexities:

"And I'm making a pitch to you and I tell you that my business is seasonal, labor intensive, weather dependent, capital intensive, and is based on a discretionary recreational activity that has inherent risks. I don't know if the conversation would go much further, but that kind of sums up the ski industry."
[01:09] Rob Goodell

Loveland Ski Area, established 85 years ago and currently owned by the descendants of original investors Chet and Virginia Upham, epitomizes the independent ski resort model. With over 70% of U.S. ski areas being independently owned, these resorts face unique challenges compared to larger conglomerates like Vail Resorts and Alterra Mountain Company, which collectively own about 10% of U.S. ski areas and offer extensive package deals to attract skiers.

Operational Challenges and Sustainability

Maintaining an independent ski area requires navigating a myriad of operational hurdles. Goodell emphasizes the resilience needed to manage unexpected weather patterns and the inherent volatility of ski seasons:

"Takes a lot of intestinal fortitude because there are seasons that are late to get started early to close, dry spells in between, and you have to be committed to it."
[02:10] Rob Goodell

Andrew Gast, General Manager of Mount Ashland Ski Area in southern Oregon, highlights the labor-intensive nature of the industry:

"One of our largest costs is labor. We have about 60 year-round employees. Then we'll balloon up to just over 600, about 620 to maybe 640, depending upon different department needs."
[08:36] Andrew Gast

Securing and retaining seasonal workers is a significant challenge, especially in expensive real estate markets. Loveland mitigates this by providing housing for employees, a strategy Gast notes has improved staffing stability over recent years.

Revenue Streams and Financial Management

Ski areas primarily generate revenue through lift ticket sales, which account for approximately 60-65% of income, followed by food and beverage operations, rentals, and ski school services:

"The number one revenue stream for us is the lift revenue, which includes season passes. The lift tickets, 60 to 65% comes from lift ticket sales and then food and beverage, ski and ride school and rentals, probably about 30% all combined."
[04:21] Andrew Gast

Independent resorts like Loveland price their single-day adult lift tickets at $149, with season passes available for $699. In contrast, conglomerate-owned resorts offer expansive packages, such as Vail's Epic Pass priced at over $1,000, granting access to 42 resorts worldwide. This disparity poses a competitive challenge for smaller operations.

Infrastructure and Maintenance

Chairlifts are a critical component of ski area infrastructure, representing significant capital expenditure and maintenance costs. Modern high-speed detachable lifts, while increasing capacity and operational efficiency, come with higher installation and maintenance expenses and a shorter lifespan compared to traditional lifts. Gast explains Mount Ashland's recent investment in a new chairlift:

"Mount Ashland recently installed a new chairlift. The nonprofit spent over $3 million total—$2 million for the lift itself and an additional million for installation, trail braking, and lighting."
[21:13] Community Member

The intricate process of chairlift installation involves extensive engineering, ground surveys, deep foundation foundations, and rigorous safety testing, ensuring these vital systems operate flawlessly to transport thousands daily.

Snowmaking and Environmental Considerations

Snowmaking is essential, especially during seasons with insufficient natural snowfall. Loveland employs nine large snowcats to groom snow efficiently:

"We have nine snowcats, very large, powerful, tracked machinery to push and groom snow that cost more than the first house that I owned."
[14:32] Andrew Gast

Water rights are a critical asset for snowmaking operations. Loveland holds a Special Use Permit from Colorado, supplemented by additional water purchases, to meet their snowmaking needs—a costly but necessary investment to ensure consistent operations.

Community Involvement and Nonprofit Models

Mount Ashland Ski Area operates as a nonprofit, a model sustained largely by community support and ancillary revenue streams. Facing potential closure in the early '90s, the local community intervened to purchase and sustain the mountain:

"The community came together and bought the mountain from that company and formed the nonprofit that operates it today."
[07:33] Community Member

Despite donations covering only a fraction of operating costs, Mount Ashland generates revenue through summer activities, such as trail running, hiking, and innovative additions like axe throwing, aiming to diversify income and engage the community year-round.

Risk Management and Insurance

Ski areas must navigate substantial operational risks, including liability insurance due to the inherent dangers of skiing and infrastructure maintenance. Gast points out the high costs associated with comprehensive insurance policies:

"Our insurance amounts to about 9% of our expenses that we pay annually for the mountain."
[19:09] Community Member

Property insurance remains a significant expense, especially with the increasing wildfire risks across the West, necessitating robust coverage to protect valuable assets like chairlifts and lodges.

Adapting to Market Demands and Future Prospects

To remain competitive, independent ski areas must continuously innovate and adapt. Loveland considers upgrading to high-speed lifts to enhance capacity and efficiency, while Mount Ashland focuses on maintaining manageable lift capacities to suit its size:

"Some ski areas, like Loveland, are choosing to upgrade their chairs to high speed lifts. Mount Ashland is not."
[21:13] Zachary Crockett

Additionally, exploring off-season revenue opportunities is crucial. Mount Ashland's introduction of summer camps and activities like axe throwing exemplifies strategic diversification to stabilize income beyond the winter months.

Conclusion: The Resilient Joy of Skiing

Despite tight margins and fierce competition, the enduring passion for skiing and snowboarding ensures a loyal customer base. Goodell encapsulates this sentiment:

"It's the pure joy of skiing, snowboarding, being outdoors. It's a family activity, and once people get introduced to it, and have that feeling. It's really unsurpassed."
[24:08] Rob Goodell

The episode concludes by highlighting the delicate balance ski areas must maintain between operational efficiency, financial sustainability, and fostering community engagement to thrive in an ever-evolving market.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rob Goodell [01:09]:
  "And I'm making a pitch to you and I tell you that my business is seasonal, labor intensive, weather dependent, capital intensive, and is based on a discretionary recreational activity that has inherent risks. I don't know if the conversation would go much further, but that kind of sums up the ski industry."

• Andrew Gast [04:21]:
  "The number one revenue stream for us is the lift revenue, which includes season passes. The lift tickets, 60 to 65% comes from lift ticket sales and then food and beverage, ski and ride school and rentals, probably about 30% all combined."

• Rob Goodell [02:10]:
  "Takes a lot of intestinal fortitude because there are seasons that are late to get started early to close, dry spells in between, and you have to be committed to it."

• Rob Goodell [24:08]:
  "It's the pure joy of skiing, snowboarding, being outdoors. It's a family activity, and once people get introduced to it, and have that feeling. It's really unsurpassed."

---

This episode was produced by Morgan Levy and Sarah Lilly, mixed by Jeremy Johnston, with contributions from Daniel Moritz Rapson and listener Naboja Kulich.

Transcript

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[Zachary Crockett]

Imagine for a moment that you're a venture capitalist and you're looking for your next big investment.

[Rob Goodell]

And I'm making a pitch to you and I tell you that my business is seasonal, labor intensive, weather dependent, capital intensive, and is based on a discretionary recreational activity that has inherent risks. I don't know if the conversation would go much further, but that kind of sums up the ski industry.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's Rob Goodell. He's the chief operating officer of Loveland ski area near Silverthorne, Colorado. Loveland is 11,000ft up in the Rocky Mountains, just an hour's drive from the Denver metro area.

[Andrew Gast]

Been in operation for 85 years.

[Rob Goodell]

We're owned by one family from Texas. Chet and Virginia Upham were investors back in the 50s, and then in the early 70s, 1972 they became the outright owners.

[Zachary Crockett]

Chet and Virginia's descendants own Loveland today, and Goodell's been working for the family for 32 years.

[Rob Goodell]

Takes a lot of intestinal fortitude because there are seasons that are late to get started early to close, dry spells in between, and you have to be committed to it.

[Zachary Crockett]

Over 70% of ski areas in the United States are independently owned like Loveland. But the industry has become more consolidated over the years, and the bigger companies are less vulnerable to the inherent instability of the ski business.

[Rob Goodell]

Their model is global. They have resorts around the world, so they're kind of hedging their investment by saying that if the eastern part of the United States doesn't have a good winter, hopefully they' Western part or the Midwest or the Southern hemisphere.

[Zachary Crockett]

So what does it take to stay independent?

[Andrew Gast]

There is a joke in the industry.

[Rob Goodell]

That says, how do you become a millionaire in the ski industry? You start out as a multi millionaire and buy a ski area.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the Freakonomics radio network. This is the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. Today, ski areas, recreational skiing and Snowboarding generate nearly $60 billion in economic activity in the US each year. On one end of the industry, you've got giant ski resorts like Vail in Colorado, Palisades in California and Big sky in Montana. These places are like Disneyland for snow enthusiasts. They have all kinds of activities. Dog sled rides, snow tubing, ice skating. And with luxury lodges and fine dining on site, you can stay for a week or more. But ski areas like Loveland cater to people who just want to enjoy a day of skiing.

[Andrew Gast]

We pride ourselves in being just a day ski area. We have all the support services to make your day complete. From rentals, food and beverage operations, retail sales.

[Zachary Crockett]

A single day adult lyft ticket costs $149 at Loveland and a season pass costs $699.

[Andrew Gast]

Definitely the number one revenue stream for us is the Lyft revenue, which includes season passes. The Lyft tickets, 60 to 65% comes from lift ticket sales and then food and beverage, ski and ride school and rentals, probably about 30% all combined.

[Rob Goodell]

Most years we do make money, but you also keep a capital reserve. We call it lack of snow fund instead of a rainy day fund. But from one season to the next, it is fairly sustainable. We do a decent volume in our season pass sales and ticket sales and ancillary revenue that we can make it.

[Zachary Crockett]

Loveland ski area faces fierce competition for skiers from conglomerates like Vail Resorts and Alterra Mountain Company. Together, those two companies own about 10% of the ski areas in the US and they offer package deals to skiers who want to try the slopes at more than one resort in a season.

[Andrew Gast]

Within that one hour drive from the Denver metro area, pretty much all the rest of our competition is either with the Icon or Epic Pass, which is Alterra and Vail Resorts. Really puts us on an island that we don't have that cooperative past with the big guys.

[Zachary Crockett]

A single day adult lift ticket at a big resort can cost over $300. But many skiers save money buying a season pass. Passes usually go on sale starting at the end of the previous ski season and increase in price through the summer and fall. And they're generally a much better deal. The spring sale price for Vail's Epic Pass is a little more than 1,000 bucks, and it gives skiers access to 42 resorts around the world. The smaller independent ski areas have trouble competing with that kind of offer.

[Community Member]

Those mega passes are very, very affordable.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's Andrew Gast. He's the general manager of Mount Ashland Ski area, a small independently run mountain in southern Oregon.

[Community Member]

And often that pass price is comparable to our season pass. And that's just a function of the fact of buying power and us having to be self sustaining and do everything ourselves.

[Zachary Crockett]

But Rob Goodell says there are other dimensions besides price that make independent mountains desirable.

[Andrew Gast]

We just do not get as crowded as the bigger guys or those that accept those passes. One of our most limiting factors is our parking. Our uphill capacity far exceeds what our parking capacity is. The exp on the hill is not congested at all because everyone spreads out and is able to find their own terrain. And we are actually looking to expand some parking so we can accommodate more people.

[Zachary Crockett]

In the early 90s, Mount Ashland's ski area was on the verge of closure. The owners, a company called Harbor Properties, were tired of losing money during the drier winters, so they planned to shut down operations.

[Community Member]

The community came together and bought the mountain from that company and formed the nonprofit that operates it today.

[Zachary Crockett]

As a nonprofit corporation, Mount Ashland takes donations. But donations only cover about 1% of their day to day costs. Their operating budget is in the millions.

[Community Member]

In a typical year right now it's a little over $4 million. For our particular mountain, the most profitable months are December, January, February is a little bit less so. And then we're actually budgeted to lose about a quarter million dollars in March. We open just because it's a non profit mountain and we're there for the community.

[Zachary Crockett]

Whether a ski area is a nonprofit, an independent business, or a part of a conglomerate, it's a big operation to manage. Thousands of visitors flock to the slopes each day and they expect to find plowed parking lots, groomed ski slopes, and functioning chairlifts. Goodell says all of those operations require manpower.

[Andrew Gast]

One of our largest costs is labor. We have about 60 year round employees. Then we'll balloon up to just over 600, about 620 to maybe 640, depending upon different department needs. In the middle of the season, the.

[Zachary Crockett]

Peak times, finding so many seasonal workers can be a challenge, especially when your business is located in an expensive real estate market. Like most mountain towns in Colorado, Loveland provides housing for new employees over the.

[Andrew Gast]

Last five years, six years, we have upped our housing inventory. Before that, we would get applicants from out of state and hope that they could find housing. In the last few years we have been staffed better than we had before.

[Zachary Crockett]

It's so integral, gast says. Mount Ashland has other hiring challenges.

[Community Member]

Last year we didn't open until January 11th because we got no snow in the month of December. We do our staff orientation in the middle of November, preparing to operate early December. And if something happens then those employees are kind of on standby. They're not earning their paychecks, and often they'll start to find other employment.

[Zachary Crockett]

There's another group of employees in a ski area that bring a different kind of operational risk.

[Andrew Gast]

Our ski patrol not only are emergency outdoor responders transporters, but they do carry explosives.

[Zachary Crockett]

That's coming up. The Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by acorns. April is Financial Literacy Month. That's right, they made a whole month reminding you to finally take control of your money. Good news is you don't need 30 days. Acorns makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future in just five minutes. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you have right now, even if all you've got is spare change. Sign up now and join over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com economics or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier one compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] Economics the Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by 1Password Tax season comes down to three preparation, preparation and preparation. It can be difficult trying to keep all your financial logins and documents secure and accessible, but One Password can help with that all in one place. Along with creating and securing passwords, One Password deters fake tax prep sites by only auto filling logins on sites you've saved, plus easily auto fill form fields like emails, addresses and more in a single click. And what about wrangling all of Those financial documents? 1Password has encrypted sharing and storage space to secure things like receipts, W2s and IRS forms. Year round taxes can be a hassle, but failure to prepare is preparing to fail. So let 1Password protect your sensitive information and bring order to the tax prep chaos. Right now you get 25% off your first year of 1Password individual or 50% off your first year of [e-mail] everydaythings that's 25% or 50% off your first [e-mail] everyday things all lowercase1Password.com everyday things the Economics of Everyday Things is sponsored by NetSuite. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Rates will rise or fall. Inflation's up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com everydaythings the guide is free to you at netsuite.com everyday things netsuite.com everyday things Loveland Ski Area opens for business each year around Thanksgiving and aims to be open until May. That's usually 180 to 200 days per year that mountain operators pray for snow. But Rob Gudell of Loveland Ski Area says more snow means more preparation for ski areas in the off hours.

[Andrew Gast]

We have nine snowcats, very large, powerful, tracked machinery to push and groom snow that cost more than the first house that I owned. But they're very efficient in what they do and the operators that we have can take a 16 inch storm and get it ready to open the next day.

[Zachary Crockett]

Snowcat operators navigate massive machines around the mountain at night, sometimes in white out conditions. They ensure that ski trails are groomed by the time the sun comes up on the ground. There's another group of staff that make sure conditions are safe.

[Andrew Gast]

We've got about 50 ski patrol and then we also have a large chapter of National Ski Patrol, which are volunteers that work on weekends or holidays. Over 100 of those that volunteer throughout.

[Zachary Crockett]

The season Ski patrol are identifiable by their red coats with white crosses. They're trained first responders and medics, ready in the event of an Emergency on the mountain. They're also the ones responsible for assessing snow conditions, particularly on the steeper slopes where there's a risk of avalanches.

[Andrew Gast]

This crew is very well versed in snow science and how to evaluate snowpacks. And it's a constant monitoring, measuring. The challenge is not to allow really deep snowpack on top of unstable layers that have been there for a long time.

[Zachary Crockett]

At any ski area with advanced, steep terrain, ski patrol will set off explosives. This is to trigger avalanches before skiers hit the slopes.

[Andrew Gast]

It is a smaller, handheld charge that they tie to a rope so they can throw it and know exactly where it'll be placed in the trigger zone. And they have the length of the fuse, so they know to step back, get into a safe zone. And there's always a remote team watching them from afar to keep contact with them, to make sure that they are well beyond harm's way. And then, then there's a muffled boom. And hopefully snow moves and slides down when and where we want it to go, as opposed to when the public is on it.

[Zachary Crockett]

Ski areas are usually located in remote, high alpine locations that sometimes require them to source their own water and treat their own sewage. And water at a ski area isn't just for toilets. It's for snowmaking, particularly in the early season, when winter storms can be scant.

[Rob Goodell]

They either need compressed air and water or the power to create the compressed air and the water mix. And so that runs for miles. The pipes and the power lines up all the trails that we have snowmaking on.

[Zachary Crockett]

These lines connect to fan guns that spray snow over the ski slopes.

[Rob Goodell]

We start making snow as soon as Mother Nature cooperates and gives us some temperatures. Typically, we will be ready anytime from the end of September on. We're very jealous of the ski areas back in the eastern United States that have access to almost unlimited water supplies. But out here in the west, it's all about the water. We do have a finite amount of water that we can use to make snow, and that lasts about two months.

[Zachary Crockett]

Loveland is granted water rights by the state of Colorado. It's called a Special Use Permit, and through the permit, they're granted water rights. But Loveland's water grant isn't enough for their snowmaking operations.

[Rob Goodell]

We have a certain amount of rights that we own, but then we also purchase some from other right holders in the area. And it's expensive.

[Zachary Crockett]

Ski areas typically own facilities like chairlifts and lodges, but they lease their land from the US Forest Service. Both Loveland in Colorado and Mount Ashland in Oregon have a 40 year special use permit for the land they're on. Again, here's Andrew Gast, general manager of Mount Ashland Ski Area.

[Community Member]

That was signed in 2012. The permit costs a percentage of the revenue that we take in. So for every ticket that's bought, there's a part of that that goes back to the forest.

[Zachary Crockett]

Skiing is an inherently risky activity, and with staff members carrying explosives, liability insurance becomes a big expense.

[Community Member]

Our insurance amounts to about 9% of our expenses that we pay annually for the mountain. They will come several times a year to represent some insurance and look at really the entire operation, the techniques that ski patrol is using explosives. They look at the maintenance of the chairlifts and are they up to code? Really all of our equipment, even down to they'll look at in the rental shop, the ski bindings on the skis. Have they been tested? How are those things maintained?

[Zachary Crockett]

Property insurance is a major consideration as well.

[Andrew Gast]

At least a third of our mountain is above treeline. But most ski areas are very heavily wooded. And with the wildfire risk throughout the west and, well, all across the country, the property insurance is high because it's a large exposure.

[Zachary Crockett]

The equipment that is most exposed at a ski area and that is covered by both property and liability insurance is the chairlift. A lift involves two loading zones, One at the bottom of the lift and one at the top with cables and chairs strung between large towers. It's responsible for ushering thousands of people, including young children, up the mountain all day in all weather conditions. And they can range in costs from hundreds of thousands to over $10 million, depending on their capacity and speed.

[Andrew Gast]

We have 10 lifts, takes about 70 employees to man those on a daily basis, seven days a week. There's a whole separate lift maintenance staff that is responsible for making sure all safety systems are operational.

[Zachary Crockett]

Traditional chairlifts transport skiers uphill at about 2.8 meters per second. The newer models with detachable chairs are about twice as fast. A faster lift can increase capacity and help a ski area's bottom line. Some ski areas, like Loveland, are choosing to upgrade their chairs to high speed lifts. Mount Ashland is not.

[Community Member]

The high speed detachable lifts are much more expensive to install, they're more expensive to maintain, and their lifespan is significantly lower. We have one chairlift that's currently 61 years old now, but the lifespan of a high speed detachable lift is only about 25 years. The capacity of dumping more people onto the chairlift top of a chairlift for us is an issue. We're a small mountain. And so we want to manage the capacity, the number of people that are getting to that top of that chairlift in a certain amount of time.

[Zachary Crockett]

Gast says Mount Ashland recently installed a new chairlift. The nonprofit spent over $3 million total $2 million for the lift itself and an additional million for installation, trail braking and lighting.

[Community Member]

It's a really complicated process. It starts with the engineering and having folks who really understand all the technicalities of hanging chair carriers in the air and moving them in tough conditions.

[Zachary Crockett]

Engineers have to do survey work on the ground to plan the chairlift's route. Then they dig the foundations for the metal towers.

[Community Member]

The foundations are really, really deep. They'll set the forms, pour concrete in those forms, and then they'll attach to the towers. And those could be either done with cranes, which is what we did on this chairlift, because it was really close to our lodge. We plan to build two other chairlifts here in the near future, and those will use helicopters, both for concrete and lowering the towers.

[Zachary Crockett]

Once the chairlift is fully installed, it's checked for safety.

[Community Member]

We ran it for about 100 hours with no people to test it to make sure it was safe to operate.

[Zachary Crockett]

When a ski area replaces a chairlift, they can usually part out the old one on the secondary market.

[Community Member]

What we can do is basically auction off each of the chairs from those chairlifts to our own community. And we'll probably raise 250 to $300,000 just from doing that, which is more than what selling it off privately would earn us.

[Zachary Crockett]

Small mountains like Mount Ashland are always on the lookout for additional revenue streams. Two years ago, the ski area began to keep its restaurants open for summer visitors.

[Community Member]

There's a lot of trail running. There's a lot of hiking that goes on. Our goal is to kind of be a hub for all those people. We started introducing summer camps. Those are for kids 8 to 13 years old. We did those last year, and we'll do more sessions this year.

[Zachary Crockett]

They're also looking into some more inventive sources of revenue.

[Community Member]

We're finding that axe throwing is actually one of those most popular things.

[Zachary Crockett]

What kind of revenue do you expect axe throwing to bring in?

[Community Member]

Probably 25,000 to $30,000 this first summer.

[Zachary Crockett]

Even with ancillary axe throwing revenue, ski areas function on tight margins. But Rob Goodell believes the one thing mountains can count on is devotees returning to the snow.

[Rob Goodell]

It's the pure joy of skiing, snowboarding, being outdoors. It's a family activity, and once people get introduced to it, and have that feeling. It's really unsurpassed.

[Zachary Crockett]

For the economics of everyday things. I'm Zachary Crockett. This episode was produced by Morgan Levy and Sarah Lilly and mixed by Jeremy Johnston. We had help from Daniel Moritz Rapson and thanks to listener Naboja Kulich who suggested this topic. If you have an idea for an episode, feel free to email us at every [e-mail] our inbox is always open. All right, until next week.

[Andrew Gast]

People love those chairs. You'll see them hanging as porch swings.

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[Zachary Crockett]

Stitcher.

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