21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Q&A Season 1, w/John Maxwell

Summary

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THE ED MYLETT SHOW

21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Q&A Season 1, w/ John Maxwell

Date: July 23, 2026
Host: Ed Mylett
Guest: John Maxwell
Special Guest Moderator: Max Mylet

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Episode Overview

This special Q&A episode of The Ed Mylett Show brings together two of the world’s most respected voices in leadership—Ed Mylett and John Maxwell—for a deep and lively conversation focused on the practical application of Maxwell’s “21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.” Using questions submitted by listeners, Ed and John discuss how to lead with influence, foster authentic relationships (at home and at work), embrace humility, navigate uncertainty as a leader, and stay disciplined in the face of delayed results. Throughout, the tone is warm, honest, vulnerable, and filled with actionable wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Leading Your Family Through Influence, Not Authority

Timestamp: 01:47–04:43

• Listener Question: “I feel like I’m losing influence with my kids as they get older. How do I lead my family through influence instead of authority?”
• John Maxwell: Parenting is inherently humbling. As kids grow, direct authority fades, and influence must be earned.
  • Shares a personal anecdote about wanting to write a parenting book, only to realize as his kids entered their teens that he was still figuring it out.
  • Advice:
    • Open conversation: “You get it back when you talk to your children and ask THEM how you get it back … The moment I included my children in the conversation, we up leveled it every time.” (03:29)
    • Admit mistakes and invite input: *“There’s something beautiful about a parent looking at their child and saying, ‘I'm sorry. I could have done that better. Help me next time so I can do it better FOR you.’”_ (04:09)
  • Key Insight: Don’t ignore the problem or just dispense answers; ask questions and involve your kids in the process.

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2. Moving Your Team from Compliance to Genuine Buy-In

Timestamp: 04:48–07:11

• Listener Question: “My team does what I ask but there’s no energy. How do I shift from authority to real influence?”

• Ed Mylett: As a young leader, he was a “tell” leader; over time, he learned the power of being an “ask” leader.

  • “I learned to be a better ask leader. I’d say, ‘Here’s the direction we need to go. How do we get there, everybody?’” (05:20)
  • Remind the team of why—the mission—and show belief in individuals:
    • “You’ll never make a mistake by pouring belief into people … Not just hype, but looking at somebody and saying, ‘This is exactly what I see in you.’” (06:28)

• John Maxwell: Affirms the power of genuine need and value:

  • Shares a practice from his own teams: “For me to look at you and say, ‘I need you. What we’re trying to do, I’m not sure we can accomplish it without you.’ … When the leader truly needs them and it’s authentic, it brings great buy-in.” (07:17)

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3. Humility as the Secret Ingredient in Leadership

Timestamp: 07:55–10:28

• Ed Mylett: Observes that a throughline in John Maxwell’s teaching is humility.
  • “So much of the through line of the things that you teach involves humility as a leader.” (08:31)
  • Asks if this comes from faith: referencing Biblical examples of servant leadership.
• John Maxwell: Reflects on his journey:
  • Attributes his own success to the help of others: “I’m not a self-made man. … The reason I am where I am today … is because I have a lot of people who help me.” (08:56)
  • Stresses the importance of gratitude and recognizing the contributions of others.
  • “I really do know that I’m on the shoulders of a lot of people ... That’s not only humbling, it just fills me with gratitude.” (09:42)

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4. Authenticity and ‘Walking the Walk’

Timestamp: 12:10–13:49

• Ed Mylett: Notes that John Maxwell doesn’t just teach leadership principles, he lives them.
  • “You value people. You embody these traits and characteristics and laws yourself.” (12:17)
• John Maxwell: Describes his approach:
  • “It’s one thing to say it, it’s another thing to live it. All of the moral gravitas of life is in embracing and living what you teach.” (12:53)
  • Decided early never to teach what he hadn’t lived: “Teaching from the head will inform people. Teaching from the heart will impact people.” (13:45)

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5. Leading With Confidence Amid Uncertainty

Timestamp: 17:15–22:15

• Listener Question: “How do I lead with confidence when I don’t have all the answers?”

• Ed Mylett:

  • Shares a lesson from John: It’s okay—not necessary—to have all the answers; authenticity matters more.
  • “If you want to impress people, tell them how perfect you are. If you want to connect, reveal your imperfections.” (17:32)
  • Calls for leaders (in all spheres) to admit mistakes: “They’d have much more deep connections with us and therefore more trust if they behave that way.” (18:46)

• John Maxwell:

  • Debunks the myth of always “having it all figured out”:
    • “Let me relieve you. You’ll never get it all figured out.” (18:51)
    • Reframes the “I don’t have a clue” side as equally unrealistic—leaders should do their best, involve others, and value collaboration.
    • “I don’t have it all figured out, but I’m giving it a lot of thought, and I’m getting some of it figured out. ... The best understanding comes from shared thinking and collaboration.” (21:08)
  • Advises leaders to “walk down the middle of the road”—balancing confidence and humility:
    • “There’s more margin there and more reality and more humility … Stay right down the middle.” (21:40)

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6. Remaining Disciplined When Results Are Delayed

Timestamp: 22:23–27:23

• Listener Question (to Ed): “How do you stay disciplined when you’re not seeing immediate results?”
• Ed Mylett:
  • Tells a pinata metaphor: Each swing by a child seems fruitless, but eventually, all the blows add up and the reward comes suddenly.
  • “It’s like compound pounding. You’re making invisible progress, but it doesn’t feel like it … Most people quit before the candy comes out in their life.” (24:38)
  • Urges consistency and faith in unseen progress.
• John Maxwell:
  • Echoes the importance of unseen work (“4:30 AM writing that’s never seen”) and faith in the compounding effect of disciplined effort.
    • “There are two things that are unseen that make a person great: the unseen hours of work … and the honest good work that you do when there’s no immediate return.” (25:22)
  • “It’s been stored up, it’s about to show up.” (26:11)

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7. Transitioning through the Laws of Leadership

Timestamp: 27:31–29:24

• Question: “How do you transition from the Law of Respect to the Law of Intuition in the series?”
• John Maxwell:
  • Emphasizes that there is no single key to great leadership—it’s the compound effect of all the laws.
    • “The one thing you need to know to be a great leader is that there are 21 things to be a great leader ... keep going, keep growing, there’s more ahead of you.” (28:19)
  • Encourages embracing the journey and never “arriving” as a leader.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John Maxwell (on parenting):

  • “The most humbling thing in life is being a parent.” (02:08)
  • “You never fix a problem by ignoring the problem. You only fix a problem not by giving answers, but by asking questions, including them in the process.” (04:21)

• Ed Mylett (on leadership):

  • “Sometimes it’s not about saying new things all the time to the older people. Sometimes it’s about saying the same old things to new people.” (07:02)

• John Maxwell (on humility/gratitude):

  • “I am not a self-made man. … The reason I am where I am today is because I have a lot of people who help me.” (08:56)

• John Maxwell (on integrity):

  • “All of the moral gravitas of life is in embracing and living what you teach. That’s where the power, that’s where the impact is.” (12:53)

• Ed Mylett (on invisible progress):

  • “Most people quit before the candy comes out in their life.” (24:38)

• John Maxwell (on growing as a leader):

  • “There’s something beautiful about the fact that we have to grow to get there. I never want to arrive.” (29:06)

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Episode Flow (with Timestamps)

• [01:47] Leading Through Influence at Home (parenting)
• [04:48] Getting Buy-In from Your Team
• [07:55] Humility as a Leadership Superpower
• [12:10] Walking the Walk as a Leader
• [17:15] Leading Confidently Through Uncertainty
• [22:23] Staying Disciplined When Results Lag (the pinata analogy)
• [27:31] Embracing the Ongoing Journey of Leadership

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is engaging, heartfelt, packed with practical wisdom, and grounded in real-life experiences. Ed and John model exactly the kind of authentic, humble, and people-first leadership they advocate. Their genuine respect and care for each other and their listeners shine through.

For listeners: Rather than needing all the answers or being perfect, true leadership—at work or home—means admitting what you don’t know, honoring others, creating genuine connection, and valuing the unseen and incremental work. Leadership, like progress, compounds over time.

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If you lead, parent, coach, or simply want to grow, this Q&A episode is rich with applicable advice, empathy, and timeless truths.

Transcript

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[John Maxwell]

This is the Ed Milan Show.

[Ed Mylett]

Welcome back to the show, everybody. Very excited to be here with John Maxwell and we are going to take some time today and we're going to learn from you even some more. And so, as you know, we're through season one of the 21 laws and today we're going to have a chance to get questions answered by John. I might even kick in a couple ideas as well. But this is a chance for those of you that have downloaded the workbook and submitted your questions. You can do this for season two and three as well. Your question may show up here on the show through the voice of Max Mylet, who's going to be asking us the questions today. So, John, thank you for being here.

[John Maxwell]

Oh my gosh. If I'm with you, I'm a happy man.

[Ed Mylett]

So am I. We've had more fun off camera than you can possibly imagine. So hopefully.

[John Maxwell]

And now we're going to have some fun on camera.

[Ed Mylett]

On camera. Exactly. Go ahead, Max, why don't you start us off?

[Max Mylet]

Yeah, sounds good, guys. So the first question we have comes from one of the fans that downloaded the workbook and it's for you, John. So question one will be, I feel like I'm losing influence with my kids as they get older. They don't listen the same way. And I just don't want to trust, control them. I want them to trust me. How do I lead my family? Through influence instead of authority.

[John Maxwell]

Well, first of all, the most humbling thing in life is being a parent. Okay, let's start right there. Everybody needs to be a parent. And everybody knows exactly what this question's all about. Because. Because as your children grow, the relationship changes with them. And there does come a time, I remember when Margaret and I, when our two children became teenagers. I'll tell you something just real quick. Funny story, Ann. I told the publisher I would write a book called Breakthrough Parenting. Get the picture? I'm going to write this book when my kids become teenagers. Let's talk about who doesn't understand timing. And so I'm doing breakthrough parenting. My kids are teenagers. Hey, they're not listening. My influence is waning. In fact, I'm calling the publisher and I'm saying, this isn't working. This is not working. I said, could I change the title of the book? I'd like to call it A Breakdown Parenting. I think that, oh, hey, here's a better breakup parenting. We may break up over this thing. Now, please understand where you are. Every parent has been and will be. And I love your question because you're a good parent. And I know you're a good parent because you're saying, I know it's not what it was. And how do I get it back? And let me see if I can help you just for a moment. You get it back when you talk to your children and ask them how you get it back. This is so key. I learned with our children that when it wasn't going well, instead of me telling them why it wasn't going well, I sat down and said, help me out as a parent. It's not going well. What could I do better to kind of up level us? Is there something I could say differently? Let's just talk about it. The moment I included my children in the conversation, we up leveled it every time. And I think that's a big miss. I think so many times we as parents say, I've got to have direction here and I've got to make sure that I'm the one that's in control. And I think there's something beautiful about a parent, in fact, there's something beautiful about a parent looking at their child and say, I'm sorry, I could have done that better. I wish I had another shot at it. But I will have another shot at it. So help me next time so I can do it better for You. So I would just say to you, you never fix a problem by ignoring the problem. You only fix a problem not by giving answers, but by asking questions, including them in the process. Trust me, if you do that, you'll up level that connection.

[Ed Mylett]

What a tremendous answer.

[Max Mylet]

Yeah, that was a great.

[Ed Mylett]

I can't add to that one. That was too good.

[Max Mylet]

Yeah, that was a great one there. So for the next question, we have it for you. Gosh, that was a great answer. Our next question is I'm in a leadership role, but I can feel my team complying but not fully buying in. They do what I ask, but there's just no energy there. How do I shift from authority based leadership to real influence?

[Ed Mylett]

Well, I would defer to John on all of these things, but one of the things that I've learned to do a better job of, that I was not very good at. And it goes along the lines of what John was just answering on the other question. When I was a younger leader, I was a tell leader where I would walk in a room and sort of tell them where we were going, dictate sort of the sense of direction because I thought that's what a leader does. You know, a leader's got vision. It tells you where we're going and how great it's going to be when we get there. And there's an element of that. But I learned to be a better ask leader. When I walk in a room and say, hey, here's the challenge we've got or this is the direction we need to go. How do we get there? Everybody? And it's interesting that you say what you just said regarding children because I hope I did that as a dad, but I know definitively I did a better job of that as a, as a business leader as I got older. The other thing that I think when you're not getting total buy in or there's a lack of energy, I think oftentimes people forget why. And I think a reminder of why we do what we do, why we exist as a company, why we exist as a church, why we exist as a family, reminding people of why we're doing this. And then I always really believe that when a leader starts to feel distance from people, even as a parent or a business leader, I think people forget how much you believe in them or maybe they were never told in the first place. And so I'm pretty big on reminding people of why. Exactly. I believe not just the hokey, the general, you're a champion.

[John Maxwell]

Not just hype, you're Amazing.

[Ed Mylett]

But looking at somebody and saying, this is exactly what I see in you. This is your giftedness, this is your talent. This is what I admire. This is what I respect and pour into people and then link that belief to the mission. But I think you'll never make a mistake as a leader in any way by pouring belief into people. And I think what happens to a lot of leaders, John, is I think they just get tired of it. I think there's leadership fatigue. They think they've got to come up with new things to say all the time, you know, and I, at least for me, oftentimes, to me, it's not about saying new things all the time to the older people. Sometimes it's about saying the same old things to new people.

[John Maxwell]

That's right.

[Ed Mylett]

And just pouring in belief to people, reminding them why and where we're going and how amazing it's going to be when we get there. I think that can infuse energy into the team or the organization.

[John Maxwell]

That's so good. You know, I was having a conversation with Mark Cole, who owns all of Maxwell Enterprise.

[Ed Mylett]

I love Mark.

[John Maxwell]

And Mark was talking about one of the people on our team and he said, I'm having conversation right now and basically my conversation is, I need you. And when he was telling me that, I thought to myself, that's powerful for me to look at you on the team and say, ed, I need you. I really do. Truthfully, what we're trying to accomplish, I'm not sure we can accomplish. We don't have you. I think when a person has that sense that the leader truly needs them and it's authentic, I just think it also brings great buy in the more

[Ed Mylett]

I listen to you and I listen to you all the time, even, you know, privately as a friend. One of the through lines. I'm just saying this now, but I've always felt it. You really infuse a great deal of humility in your leadership formula. Have you noticed that? That's one of the real nuances, like I used to think when I was younger, like I've got almost flex as a leader to prove I'm in charge.

[John Maxwell]

We've all been, we evolved. I think all of us are, I think introductory. All of us think we've got this, have this right appearance and posture. Posture, yeah, that's a better word.

[Ed Mylett]

But you. So much of the through line of the things that you teach involves humility as a leader. And I, you know, whether we keep this in or not, I'd like to know this. Is that That's a biblical principle. I mean, I think of Jesus knowing my time here is going to end him. Washington, the disciples feet, the apostles. Like do you. Is that part of the, is that something you always come back to as humility as a leader, service?

[John Maxwell]

Here's what I think. I think where I am today, if somebody said, what's the one thing that you point to, to success in your life? It wouldn't be the books I've written, it wouldn't be the leadership speeches I've given. These are the stuff that people would probably say. The reason I'm where I am today, Ed, is because I have a lot of people who help me. I, I am not a self made man. Neither am I. I'm a teammate man. And I look at the people who have given up a lot in their life, who could have probably gone and done their own thing and probably done very well with it, but they decided to help me. And I am. It's. That's what's humbling. I don't know if I have thought of it the way you said of having humility and leadership, like you just said it, but that's who you are. Ed Mylett. Ed Mylett brings out the insights that we none of us think of until you give it to us. And then we say, yeah, that makes sense. So the way you said it to me, I probably have never integrated it that way. But in my heart, here's what I know. The reason I am where I am today and the reason I am still where I am at 79 and still going forward is because the people in my life that have given up everything to make sure that I can be a success, that to me is not only humbling, it just fills me with gratitude. I mean, what would I do without all those people? Well, what I would have done would have been less than what I'm doing. That's a draft pact.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah, that's true for you in my life, just so you know.

[John Maxwell]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

I would have done a whole lot less in my life without you in it.

[John Maxwell]

Let's see. But I feel the same thing about you. See, that's what, you know what makes a great relationship, a great relationship. You look at each other with integrity and you could say, honestly, you make me better.

[Ed Mylett]

I can honestly say that.

[John Maxwell]

And when that's with. And that, I don't. You think that's what a great relationship is all about?

[Ed Mylett]

I do.

[John Maxwell]

I think so too.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[John Maxwell]

I look at you and I'm full of love. I look at Mark, I look at Aaron, I look at my team, I look at people that are with me. These people, Ed, would take a bullet.

[Ed Mylett]

They would, they would.

[John Maxwell]

What do you say? The only thing I could say to them is I would hope I would be as good as them. I'm not sure I am, but I would hope I take a bullet for them too.

[Ed Mylett]

You were, you, look at you getting emotional.

[John Maxwell]

What's your fault? It's your fault.

[Ed Mylett]

I love you.

[John Maxwell]

If you would be tapped, I mean, but I've never had anybody express my leadership in that way that you just did. As soon as you said, I thought, that's insight. And I've really not thought about it, but I think I know where it comes from. It comes from the fact that I really do know there's no fake to this. I really do know that I'm on the shoulders of a lot of people who have said, we'll carry you.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah, sure, yeah. None of the things that you teach. And I know we're going a little longer than maybe they thought on this, but sometimes you're right. You know, you. Was it 100 books now?

[John Maxwell]

Well, it's, it's 90 something, but 97. Who's cow around? I'm just old.

[Ed Mylett]

It'll be. You got it.

[John Maxwell]

When you're old, you do that many books.

[Ed Mylett]

That's not true. He writes every day, everybody. That's why he's got, he, he's, he's dedicated. He writes every single day of his life. We were talking about this off camera, but, you know, these aren't strategies in your book. You live these things. You're like, oh, I need to value people. You, you value people. You embody these traits and characteristics and, and laws yourself. That's the thing about you that I know it's an old adage of leadership, but walking the walk. Yeah, being the example. I know you probably won't accept that compliment, but it's actually so true.

[John Maxwell]

Yeah, you. It's one thing to know and teach a principle, it's another thing to integrate it and live that principle. If I, if I know a good principle and I teach it, people really get help from it because it's a good principle. When I integrate it and I live it, they're impacted by it. You see, it's one thing to say it, it's one thing to live it. All of the moral gravitas of life is in embracing and living what you teach. That's where the power, that's where the impact is. I think when I was very young, I was in my 20s, I could still remember making a very conscious decision that I would never teach what I did not believe and what I did not live. And I want to tell you as a young leader, because I didn't have experience that left out a lot of teaching in my life, because I just didn't. I hadn't lived it yet. I hadn't embraced it yet, even though I thought it was true. And I thought teaching from the head will inform people. Teaching from the heart will impact people.

[Ed Mylett]

Outstanding.

[John Maxwell]

And there's a difference between those two.

[Ed Mylett]

Huge difference. I know it when I see it. I see it with John.

[John Maxwell]

Well, we all know when we see it anywhere. You don't have to tell people when it's happening. You don't need to say it's happening. Everybody knows it's happening because they're impacted by it. I believe that.

[Ed Mylett]

Amen.

[John Maxwell]

Gosh, I love talking with you.

[Ed Mylett]

I do, too. I'm sitting here thinking what a blessing this is. You know, every time we just sit down together, just this stuff happens. There's one thing in common every single time.

[Whatnot and Chime Advertiser]

John,

[John Maxwell]

Ed and John like to do this together. You know why we like to do this together? Because we learn from each other, and we know what we're learning from each other transfers right to the listener, to the people that are asking these questions today. You benefit from this because we're both learning and growing from each other. And so it's kind of like the overflow hopefully you're getting today.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right.

[Max Mylet]

Guys, this is just so good here. I almost just didn't even want to interrupt. It's amazing.

[Ed Mylett]

Thank you.

[Max Mylet]

So the next question we got from a fan, and I would say this is for the both of you guys. As a leader in both of my family and my business, I feel this big pressure on me to just have everything figured out, whether it's finances, the future decision. But the big truth is, most of the time, I have no clue what I'm doing. How do I lead my family and my business with confidence while I'm still feeling a little uncertain myself?

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[Ed Mylett]

A million dollars a year.

[Whatnot and Chime Advertiser]

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[Ed Mylett]

Here's the hook. They keep coming back.

[Whatnot and Chime Advertiser]

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[John Maxwell]

It's insane.

[Whatnot and Chime Advertiser]

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[Ed Mylett]

So I got to tell you, when

[Whatnot and Chime Advertiser]

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[Ed Mylett]

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[Ed Mylett]

It only takes a few minutes to sign up. I'll, I'll go first on this one just because it's something I learned from John. And I'll, I'll phrase it wrong, but the, but the, the lesson is learned. John says it better than I do. But I've wondered about that too, particularly when I was younger as a leader. And one of the things that John's impressed upon me, that I'm more comfortable. In fact, I, I give him credit for this. If anybody ever tells me, you know, Ed, you seem a little bit more comfortable in your own skin as you've gotten older. I think some of that comes with age, right? But you told me one time you said, ed, if you really want to impress people, and I know you've said this prior, but then, you know, tell them how perfect you are. But what I heard from you is if you want to connect with people, reveal your imperfections to them, and I've just become much more comfortable saying, I don't know, or I made a mistake, I'm sorry, or can you help me? You know, all these are things I've learned from you. And so I think my answer to you would be that I think you'd be surprised by revealing the fact that you don't have every answer.

[John Maxwell]

Course.

[Ed Mylett]

And then maybe you've made mistakes and you're not perfect will deepen the connection you have and. And for that matter, the influence you have, ironically, by revealing that. And it's one of the things you and I talk privately all the time about. Wish, wish we saw more in our leaders in the political world that they would just say, I don't know, I'm sorry, I've made a mistake. My intention was X or Y, I got it wrong. And to me, they'd have much more deep connections with us and therefore more trust if they behave that way. And so that would be my part of the answer. What would it be for you?

[John Maxwell]

And again, I think what you're saying, Ed, is I don't think people look for a perfect leader. They just would like to have an authentic leader, somebody that's real, you know, in the question. I was very interested in that question because there were two phrases that just kind of pulled my mind out in the. In the question you ask. It's such a good question. I haven't got it all figured out. They all figured out. I want to talk about in a moment. The second thing I want you to that I got is that I don't have a clue. Those are extreme statements. So let me relieve you. You'll never get it all figured out. My name's John. I'm your friend. We can never connect the dots looking forward. If you want figured out, you got to get at 79 and go back and it makes sense. You can connect the dots looking backwards, you can't connect forward. So all figured out is too heavy of a burden to carry. Be just understanding that you won't get all figured out. The flip side of that is I don't have a clue that you don't want to be there either. You want to have a clue. It is your job and my job to do our very best as parents, as leaders, to figure as much out as we possibly can, to not go to our group and just say, I don't have a clue. It's kind of like, here's what I'm thinking, and now you add to it. I would like you to live in that middle road, and that middle road is a good road. And that is. I don't have it all figured out, but I'm giving it a lot of thought, and I'm getting some of it figured out. I'm very content with some of it figured out because some of it figured out. If I have the right attitude and I go to people like Ed and my team and say, help me. Here's where I am, but you're gonna help me get further. And now they're gonna help me figure that out, and we're gonna do that together. I. I think having the best understanding of any situation comes from shared thinking and collaboration. And so therefore, I'm very comfortable not having all the answers, but I would not be comfortable having no answers. I mean, we're not glorifying stupid, but we're also not trying to make a person feel like they have to know everything. So I have a teaching sometimes, and it's just a simple teaching. It just says, just walk down the middle of the road. Okay, sometimes I'm really good and I have some success, but that's not who I really am. And sometimes I'm really bad and I'm in the ditch, but that's not really who I am. Basically, I just want to walk in the middle of the road because there's more margin there and there's more reality and there's more humility there. Walking down. There's just walk down the middle of the road, and every once in a while, you get over there on that right side and get some of that success, and it's a good thing. But, you know, that's not really who you are. Once in a while, you kind of go over in the ditch, but that's not who you really are. Just stay right down the middle. It's in the middle of the road that you get your questions answered. It's in the middle of the road that you're seen and understood. So just stay in that middle and understand that you'll never get it all figured out and understand you have to have some of it figured out.

[Ed Mylett]

I'm so glad we're doing this. This is just stuff that we've not talked about before, even privately. This is so good. The questions too, by the way, from the audience.

[John Maxwell]

Great questions.

[Max Mylet]

They're doing a great job. And this next one we have here, I mean, I wish we could just ask a ton of them. Part of this. I actually have a question for you, Ed. So you've said quite a bit, and this came from a fan, that leadership is built in the unseen hours. Obviously, growing up, I've seen this with you personally. But for someone who feels like they're in a season and has been following these reps that you've been giving after every single one of these laws, but they haven't seen the immediate results yet, how would you stay disciplined in the process when the outcome is starting to feel really far away?

[Ed Mylett]

Such a great question. Again, I keep deferring to things I've actually learned from John, and a lot of this has been reinforced the last few years. But I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for progress and growth. And a lot of this stuff is, it's, it's not seen. I'll give you an example. When you were little, Max, we went to a birthday party of like a fellow six or seven year old, and they had a pinata, you know, where you hit the pinata. And it was such an incredible metaphor for life because it's. You think about this tradition, it's a beautiful tradition, but what do we really do? It's kind of like business a little bit. You take a young kid, you put a blindfold on them, you spin them around, you give them a weapon. They've got no sense of direction. They just start aimlessly swinging. So I'm watching these kids, right? So first off, they're just missing it all together. Then you got to line them up. It's kind of like being a leader in business. People are all spun around, then you, they feel blindfolded. Then you line them up, and the kids are whacking away at this pinata. And the first kid's just hitting the heck out of it. No candy comes out and he kind of gets tired. So it looked like there was no progress being made.

[John Maxwell]

This is good, right?

[Ed Mylett]

But there's something called like compound pounding. You don't see it. And so then the next little guy gets up there, Max. And they spun him around and he's got this blindfold on and he's whacking away at the pinata and no candy comes out and he gets tired and quits Looks like there's no progress. Then you got spun around, Max, and you hit the heck out of that pinata. No candy. Finally, we go through about seven, eight kids. This thing's not breaking. It looks like there's no progress. And they take the littlest guy there, the little brother of the boy who's four years old, and they spin him around. He takes the little baton, and he hits it one time, and all candy comes out.

[John Maxwell]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Mylett]

And the question is, was it just that one blow from that last kid, or was it the cumulative blows that everybody hit that pinata with that was breaking it down, even though there was no evidence? And life in business is a lot like that pinata. You're swinging away and you're making invisible progress, but it doesn't feel like it. Here's the hook. Most people quit before the candy comes out in their life. They quit because they didn't think they made the progress. They didn't see it coming. And you've seen this enough times, John. Oftentimes they quit one or two blows away from pay dirt. And so watching it that day, I thought, that's a metaphor for life in business. Almost better than anything I've ever seen. Compound pounding and making invisible progress. Don't quit before the candy comes out.

[John Maxwell]

I love the phrase compound pound. I mean, so she said. I said, I got my content curator, Aaron here. I thought, oh, my gosh, you're going to hear that from Maxwell, because a compound pounding is a great visual, and the pinata is a great pounding. Compound pounding. And so let me. Let me go. Let me take this question, because it's a great question. I think there are two things that are unseen that make a person great, but they're unseen. One would be the unseen hours of work that are done before you go out and be with the public. My, my. 4:30, getting in the morning and writing every day is never seen. But it will show up. It'll show up because I did something with it. So there's that unseen part. And then the other unseen part is the honest good work that you do. A pounding on the pinata, but there's no candy coming out. And what I don't want you to miss is those are two unseen things that as a leader, you want to have in your life. The unseen hours before you go out that help you when you go out to have a gravitas. And then the pounding that is seen. And people begin to appreciate the fact that when the little kid hits it one time, it comes out. Everybody that was there understood that it wasn't that four year old boy that was amazing. It was all the pounding of the compounding of the pounding that made it happen. But those have to be there. And what I find is there are people that don't put in the silent hours before or don't value the fact that we've been working on this for a long time and it's been stored up, it's about to show up. You gotta do both of those things to get that return.

[Ed Mylett]

That's exactly right.

[John Maxwell]

Totally. I love the pinata compound pounding. Wow. That's gonna be in a book somewhere.

[Max Mylet]

This is great. I know we could go on for hours and hours, but we got one more question we wanna get in really quick and it's for you, John. So as we're wrapping up season one here, as we're going into this next session, into session number two, what do you think is something somebody can do from going from the law of respect to the next law of the law of intuition?

[John Maxwell]

Well, the reason I like the 21 laws is, I mean, we've just done seven of them. Okay, let me answer the question by a story. When the 21 Laws of Leadership came out, I spent about three years just traveling the world because it became a immediate bestseller. Everybody wanted to hear the 21 laws. The 21 laws. So I'm teaching the 21 laws of leadership. One day, I'm two thirds away, we're in a break. A guy comes up to me, I'm signing books and he asked me a question. He says this 21 law stuff he says is just fantastic. He said, that's, this is just great. He said, now, But I have a question to ask you. I said, yeah, what's the question? He said, what's the one thing I need to know to be a great leader? So I can't even say, well, the one thing you need to know to be a great leader is that there are 21 things to be a great leader. When the person asks this question, I just lovingly say, you're a third of the way. There are 14 more of these little suckers out there. And so congratulations on the first seven. They're not 21. Keep going, keep growing. There's more ahead of you. I think when we know that we're not there, there's something beautiful about the fact that we have to grow to get there. I never want to arrive. In fact, my biggest question to answer for you is when we're done with the 21 laws, then you know what's next because. But the 21 laws really work. So dive into the next seven.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right. Thank you, everybody, just for being here with us today. John, I. I love you. And it just feels like, you know, to be sitting with someone who's accomplished what you've done in your life and then have you in person be able to share these principles with the audience. It's the. It's the greatest honor since we've had this podcast to be able to share these weeks with you and go through these laws with the man who wrote them and created them and get your insights on this. And so I feel like everybody in the audience sort of gets a gift for these weeks that I get all the time with you, which is to just be in your heart and your mind in an intimate way like this. So thank you.

[John Maxwell]

Feel the same way about you, my brother. Very same way. That's why it works.

[Ed Mylett]

That's why it works. Everybody, I have a request, which is if there's somebody that you care about, that you love, could you please share these episodes and these laws with them? This is such a special thing we've been able to do on the show. And if you haven't yet, download the workbook and so that you can submit your questions as well. This is one of the great things happening you can get anywhere in the digital space. And I'm so grateful that John's been willing to do this with us and grateful you spent this time with us. All right, everybody, let's get into the rest of the laws. God bless you. Max out.

[John Maxwell]

This is the ed milan show.

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