Ed Mylett (1:51)

Don'T look like you drink any.

Troy Aikman (1:52)

Yeah, no. But yeah, I met my partners and we started kicking it around and seeing if it something that I might want to do. And you know, I work out, I'm mindful of what I put in my body, all those things. And I said, well, if we can do something that complements my lifestyle, then I'm all for it. And so we spent two years coming up with the recipe. And what's unique about Eight, which is the name of the beer, is that we're 100% organic grains. We have no adjuncts and no fillers. So we're the only widely available beer that can say that. Every other widely available beer adds corn, rice syrup, or sugar. So there's a lot of junk that's thrown in there. Ours has none of that. And yet we're still at 90 calories and just 2.6 carbs.

Ed Mylett (2:37)

That was my next question on those two things.

Troy Aikman (2:39)

So it's been really good. And I feel like we're a lifestyle brand, quite honestly, because the people who I've always been inspired by are the people who never settle and the people who do the work and all those things. And I feel like I'm one of those people, and that's why I'm usually drawn to that. And so that's really who this beer was made for. Now, anyone who wants to drink it that wants a better for you beer, we'll certainly accept.

Ed Mylett (3:08)

By the way, you're in the right demo in this audience. They can drink beer and be healthy, and it's actually unique. They can get it anywhere.

Troy Aikman (3:14)

Where can you get it in Texas? Yeah. It's distributed across the entire state. Eventually, we hope that we'll move outside of Texas and, you know, be in.

Ed Mylett (3:23)

Other states, get it online so we can buy it online.

Troy Aikman (3:26)

Yeah, eventually. I don't know what the restrictions are on that. I've been asked about that a lot, but it's done really well. So we just. We just kicked off our second year and a lot of good stuff is happening.

Ed Mylett (3:35)

Congratulations.

Troy Aikman (3:36)

Yeah, thank you.

Ed Mylett (3:37)

You, like I said, you've had this incredible life. I want to ask you hard stuff today, stuff that I don't think you get asked all the time. I had a chance a few weeks ago. I was with Brady for a few days at an event, and I've been blessed that I get to have been around some guys that played your position at a pretty high level. Woody, John Elway's been a friend of mine for a long time. What's a through line for the great leaders in anything but especially we'll just take quarterbacks now. What's the through line then? Don't be humble today between like a Troy Aikman because you're different personalities, very different. Troy Aikman, a John Elway, a Tom Brady. What is the through line that made you all great leaders? I know there's differences, but what's a through line?

Troy Aikman (4:16)

Yeah, I think we are all different. We all lead in a different way, which is true of any field, of course, but I think that probably what the through line is for all great quarterbacks, great leaders at that position or in general, is that they put in the work and they're not outworked. And I think that, that, first of all, you got to play well, but you have to also be the guy who your teammates understand is there, putting in the work and doing what's necessary in order to be the best that you can be. And I think that those guys that you mentioned, I'd like to think that I'm one of them as well. That your teammates never questioned your commitment, your dedication and your persistence to being the best that you could be.

Ed Mylett (5:03)

Why does it matter? Like in business, as an entrepreneur, I'll tell entrepreneurs, one of the reasons you gotta outwork everybody is when you're leading a team. An ironic thing, and maybe this isn't true in football, but I think it is. You actually create safety for everybody around you. Stability. When you're the hardest working person in the room and the leader, I think that's one of those, like, invisible things. Like, you actually have created a sense of stability just by your mere presence and your work ethic that doesn't exist if you're a little bit hit and miss in an environment. Do you see that?

Troy Aikman (5:33)

Yeah. And I think that in football, maybe this is true in all sports, but I know that what I can relate to is the dynamics of a locker room and within an organization. And what generally happens is for the quarterback, the quarterback, the franchise quarterback, is always viewed as the guy who didn't really have to fight necessarily for his pay. He's been treated well, you know, that. Okay, well, the organization, and maybe even more so now, even though we've seen situations where some quarterbacks have had to hold out and hopefully get what they feel is their, you know, correct corrected pay. But I think in general, when you have a franchise quarterback, it's like, oh, okay, well, his contract's up, so we pay him and then we move on and these other guys are holding out and then they gotta, you know, they gotta fight a little harder. The quarterback usually has great relationships with not only the coaches, but also the owner himself and all that. So I think that with that, the quarterback has to, in his way, make the other players, his teammates, understand that he's with them, you know, that he's one of them, and that he's doing the work just like they are. And it's not always easy to do. And there have been those quarterbacks, those guys, those franchise quarterbacks that have struggled in that area, and it's not easy. And not to get off tangent, but I think that becomes a challenge right now with what we're seeing in college with the nil is that now you've got, you've got 18 year olds instead of 24 year olds that are having to navigate those waters of getting paid more than the rest of the players within the locker room. And how do you do that? It's not easy.

Ed Mylett (7:13)

That's interesting because I've had a chance at Peyton Manning. I've interviewed Peyton, I interviewed John Montana and then you. And when people make their list, this is. Which is interesting to me. I don't know if you take this personally or not, but when people go, okay, my top five quarterbacks of all time, usually going to hear Joe's name, you're going to hear Brady's name and then they'll interchange, you know, Marino, Peyton Manning, you know, whoever, they get their list. Rogers, I guess is on that list somehow now, but Mahomes, I want to.

Troy Aikman (7:44)

Know where Otto Graham is. That guy won like 10 championships.

Ed Mylett (7:48)

But what is it in your case? I mean, it's clear you should be in that. And by the way, I'm sure on many lists you are. I don't mean to say.

Troy Aikman (7:56)

Well, no, that's not. Well, no, I'm not, I'm not. Why. And quite honestly, Ed, it. Does it affect me at all? I mean, it really doesn't. I mean, I played the game hoping that one day I would be thought of amongst the greats of all time. And I feel like that happened by the simple fact that I'm in the hall of Fame. But you know, when you're talking about, okay, name the top five. I wouldn't probably be in there. Maybe I would be if they mentioned the top 10. But I understand that my career really was about winning championships, which ultimately is what everyone's career should be about. That's what they pay us for. But I think that the world that we're in with, especially with fantasy football, and then for those fans or people who are making those lists that if they didn't see me play, they look at stats and they say, okay, well, shoot. I mean, Troy, my numbers are pretty modest relative to many others and there's reasons for that, you know, Emmett, of course there's a reason why he's the all time leading rusher and you know, you know, but we didn't throw the ball as often, but when we threw it, we threw it as well as anybody. Sure. And that's why Michael Irvin's in the, in the hall of Fame as well. So. No, it doesn't bother you? It does not bother me. In fact, during my hall of Fame speech, what I mentioned was that I feel like everyone talks about how team comes first. You never hear a player say that, oh, no, I'm all about me. You know, they all say, hey, I just want to win. But there's very few, as you know, who really only want to win. They want to win as long as they're also putting up their big numbers, you know. Yes, for me, I felt like I did sacrifice individually. I felt like I could throw the ball as well as anybody, but I feel like I did sacrifice individually for what was best for the team. And so the greatest reward for that was that I then received the greatest honor an individual can ever receive, and that is to be voted into the Pro Football hall of Fame. So that's what, that's what meant so much to me. And the rest of it. I'm proud of my career, you know, overly proud of it. If someone had told me I, you know, I always wanted to be a professional athlete. If somebody told me that I was going to go on and win three world championships and have the teammates and the career that I was able to have, I would have taken it, you know, all day long. And so I'm proud of it and where that ranks or where everyone else thinks. I just, you know, I've never, I've never really.

Ed Mylett (10:25)

It's not something you dwelled on that. Because, you know, a lot of guys, other guys do. I mean, look at, look at Michael Jordan's hall of Fame speech. He's considered the goat and he's still like nailing dudes, you know.

Troy Aikman (10:34)

Yeah. Right.

Ed Mylett (10:35)

And there's nothing wrong with that. I just. There's an ego that comes with being great at anything that I think is a healthy ego. But you did. You're also known as like one of the most accurate throwers of the football of all time. Right. One of the most cerebral guys. Stuff that quarterbacks do. I asked Noel Mazone one time, you know, the quarterback guru dude, and he's like probably the most accurate guy I've seen throw the football was actually Troy Aikman, but it was all the other things. It's actually getting into protections that you're supposed to get into. I remember when Peyton really couldn't throw anymore.

Troy Aikman (11:00)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (11:01)

Yet they ended up doing a lot better with him than they did with, with Brock because of his ability just pre snap to get them into different. The right formations and Block. And, you know, obviously you know a lot more about that than I do, but I want to ask you also about your career. I'm always, I'm just fascinated by the people that are the best. Like, people don't realize this because I watch it on tv, but every guy that's out there in the NFL was not only the best player, more than likely on their, you know, their high school team, but they became elite in college. You UCLA guy, did you come from Nebraska before that?

Troy Aikman (11:30)

Oklahoma.

Ed Mylett (11:31)

Oklahoma. So you didn't get it at Oklahoma. You end up red shirting at UCLA and ends up winning three Super Bowls and a Super bowl mvp. But I look at guys like that are just different. And I think, what's the commonality? Because even me as an entrepreneur, I'm different than Elon Musk. I'm not anywhere near as wealthy as Elon Musk, but, you know, Phil Knight, Elon Musk, and you know, Mark Cuban, three very different dudes. What's the through line? Right? And I look at Jimmie Johnson, I look at Bill Belichick, Bill Walsh, and let's just say Andy Reid right now. They're very different for human beings. You know, all of them or knew all of them, I met them. What is common amongst them that made them great leaders? That's a tough one.

Troy Aikman (12:16)

Well, that's a great question. I mean, it really is, because I actually was just having this conversation with somebody that for the most part. For the most part, I would say if you tell me someone's a player's coach, I will tell you, then they probably haven't won at the highest level in general. In general. All right. But I think Andy Reid would be regarded as a player's coach, and he's been one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game. So. But I do think that players in general, they want to be coached by people that they know are going to make them better.

Ed Mylett (12:55)

Right.

Troy Aikman (12:55)

You know, and that's, that's the bottom line. I mean, that's the key. And so do they know something that I don't? And they can put me in a position to where I can achieve the things that I want to achieve, both individually and then as well for us as a team. This is true in business, true in life, true in everything. I mean, it really is. And so there's obviously a lot of parallels between sports and business and other things. But, you know, you take Bill Belichick, for instance. I've talked to a number of people, you know, clearly regard as, you know, what May be the greatest coach of all time. He's on certainly a short list, but, you know, he's not a whole lot different in a lot of ways from the guy that we see. But when you talk to people who have played for the Patriots, I said, how is he so effective? And they say, we know that if we do what he asks us to do, there's a really good probability that we're going to win the game.

Ed Mylett (13:51)

Right. And so did you feel the way about Jimmy?

Troy Aikman (13:53)

Yeah. Yeah. And Jimmy was tough. I mean, Jimmy was really tough. He demanded a lot attention to detail. No detail was too small. And we worked hard, you know, so we had really talented players. That was his. Jimmy's greatest strength, probably was his evaluator, his evaluating of talent. I mean, he was sensational at that. So we had really talented players that worked exceptionally hard, and then Jimmy didn't let anything slide. And so that's a pretty good formula.

Ed Mylett (14:23)

I watched something. I don't know if it was last year or the year before. I happen to be watching. We have some mutual friends that are involved at Fox Sports for football, and I watched the day that they told Jimmy Johnson that he had made the hall of Fame, and then they threw to you, and I watched your reaction, and I thought, I don't know that these guys necessarily got along that well. When a dude's beating the drum, when you're playing and, you know, threaten you with, you don't, I'm gonna play Walsh or whatever.

Troy Aikman (14:49)

What's going on in your career, Right? Yeah.

Ed Mylett (14:51)

But you sincerely seemed emotional about it on his behalf. And I wonder if that's just because when you're forged in a battle, either you're building a company or a family or a football team, that when you get to the other side of that, although it may be messy in the middle, that at the end, there's this tremendous admiration that you've done something great together. Is that what that was, or what was it? Because you were pretty emotional.

Jim Rome (15:16)

Yeah.

Troy Aikman (15:17)

And I didn't know that he was going to be told that he was going into the hall of Fame. We were going to halftime, and my producer said to me, hey, the studio wants you to watch a little bit of this halftime show. They're gonna be doing something. And I just thought, okay, they're going to be doing something. And then sometime in the second half, I'm going to be asked to maybe talk on it. And so I'm just watching what's going on. And then when I see David Baker walk out, who was Running the Pro Football hall of Fame. Then I knew that Jimmy was going in, and I knew that there was a chance, but I had no idea that he was going to be told that night. I thought he was going to be months before he was going to ever find out.

Ed Mylett (15:55)

Okay.

Troy Aikman (15:56)

And so why I was emotional, Ed, was, you're right. Our career. I've known Jimmy since I was about 14 years old. He was recruiting me out of high school when he was at Oklahoma Snow State. Okay. And I didn't go to Oklahoma State, of course. And then he went to Miami, recruited me there, and I didn't go there. And then I go to Dallas, and he's. He takes over for Tom Landry. So now he's coaching me. And then he drafted Steve Walsh or. And, And. And you're right, it got off to a really tough start, but he and I have gotten. We're really close. And so he's never gone into the Ring of Honor at Cowboy Stadium, where they have all the names. And, you know, we all feel. Those of us that played for him feel that if any of us are in the Ring of Honor, he certainly should be in the Ring of Honor. But that's a decision for Jerry Jones to make. And so I never was certain he would get into the Pro Football hall of Fame because he hadn't coached long enough was the reason. Not that he didn't deserve to be in. I just didn't think that. Well, he. He wanted to go on and do. Do his boat and be in South Florida and all that. And so I just didn't know that because he'd been a finalist for a number of years. And so knowing how much that meant to him and had not yet been recognized for what he had done for those teams with the Cowboys. To see him go into the Pro Football hall of Fame that night was really special. I mean, that's why I was so emotional. Just, I was so happy for him. And then to take it a step further is he asked me to be his presenter. So I presented him then, which was the greatest honor. I mean, the greatest athletic honor I've ever received is, as I mentioned, going into the Pro Football hall of Fame. The greatest honor I've ever received in general was Jimmy Johnson asking me to be his presenter. Because when you go into the hall of Fame, you can ask anybody you want to be your presenter. And so when he asked me, I just thought, man, that's. That is huge. That's a. That's a pretty special thing. And so how wonderful, man.

Ed Mylett (17:56)

Congratulations. Speaking of emotions, dealing with failure, it's part of being an athlete. I think back to just watching a lot of football. Your rookie year was not gorgeous. So most people that listen to my show may not even be football fans, but I'm interested to hear. Why don't you describe it a little bit? Tell them what happened your rookie year, which was not. You weren't winning a Super bowl that year, and how you dealt with a lot of the rejection and failure criticism that came with it. And probably even to this day, you get criticism, people saying things about you.

Troy Aikman (18:28)

That aren't real favorable. How do you deal with that? No, it's a. It's my rookie year was. I guess it. When I first got criticized or had to deal with that was at Oklahoma. You know, I was trying to run an offense that just didn't fit my skills. And so it was a real challenge. And ou, of course, is a hotbed for football. And we were pretty good at the time, and I was probably holding us back just because we were trying to run this wishbone offense. And it just wasn't for me. So that was the first time I really had to deal with it. I broke my leg, and then I went to UCLA and ended up going to Dallas as the number one overall pick. But I went to the worst team in football. And then my rookie year, you know, new head coach, college coach, bringing in a lot of different players every week. We really did not have much of a fighting chance. I was 011 as a starter, and it was tough. I took a beating. We weren't very good up front.

Ed Mylett (19:27)

0 and 11, everyone.

Troy Aikman (19:28)

0 and 11. And so there were games where we should have lost based on how I played. And then there were other games where I thought I played pretty well, you know, and we'd have a lead with 30 seconds left in the game, and somehow we'd lose it, you know, And I just remember thinking, man, what does it take to win a game in this league? I mean, this is brutal. And. But I never lost confidence. And I think the reason was I had a quarterback coach by the name of Jerry Rome, and he had played in the NFL, and. And he just. He refused to let me get down on myself. And. And there were days when it was hard. It was hard to be positive, it was hard to be upbeat. It was hard to believe that good things were going to happen. But. But he was always there being my champion, and he was in my corner. And. And so, fortunately, my very first game, my second season, we won. And so I got that Monkey off my back. And then over time, we slowly got better and better. And then, of course, we won the super bowl in my fourth year and had great success. But, yeah, I just think that.

Ed Mylett (20:33)

Does criticism hurt you even now?

Troy Aikman (20:35)

Well, nobody likes it. You know, it's easy. I hear people say, hey, I don't pay any attention to criticism. I have a hard time believing that anyone just can totally brush it off. But if you get criticized enough, you know, and I'm in now that I'm still in the public eye with the broadcasting and all that, that you just learn that it's just part of it. You know, someone once told me that, hey, it's part of the, you know, comes with the dinner, and criticism just comes with the dinner. And, you know, I'll read Twitter from time to time, and if you've called a game and you read Twitter, buckle up. But some of these, some of it's pretty funny and I laugh at most of it. But what I like, the reason I do it is because, you know, you know, deep down, if there's truth to those criticisms. Sure, you know, yeah. And so I try to evaluate myself objectively, and I don't dismiss that. I mean, I listen and then think, yeah, you know what? They're right.

Ed Mylett (21:38)

Me too.

Troy Aikman (21:38)

They're right. I do the same.

Ed Mylett (21:39)

I kind of dig some of it. Some of it's ridiculous, but some of it, I'm like, you know what? I've heard this enough times. There's some validity.

Troy Aikman (21:45)

That's right.

Ed Mylett (21:45)

They do need to make that adjustment.

Troy Aikman (21:46)

And it's a bit of a wake up and all that's good. So I don't mind it. I mean, I honestly don't mind it. Even at the criticism, if, you know, deep down, like, you've done your best and whatever it is, and then you just accept it and move on. And now, as you know, I mean, the critics, now everyone has a platform, so you get all the. Everyone gets criticized now.

Ed Mylett (22:09)

I mean, yeah, we definitely don't lack feedback in this day and age. There's plenty of. I want to ask you about winning. I've always wanted to ask somebody who's won a lot this. I'm going to be honest with you. The things that have happened in my life where I've kind of won in business or whatever, there were. There were. It was amazing. There were elements of it that were better than what I thought it was going to be, but there are also elements of it that surprised me. And I'm curious. You win this as much as you can go back and really be there. You win this first super bowl, maybe you're still on the field, you're in the locker room, it's the next day. Was it what you thought it would be like? Did you feel what you thought you would feel? Because there's these new studies that actually say that you get more dopamine in the pursuit of something that actually, when you hit it, there's like a dopamine crash in your brain. And it's like, is that all there is? There's a little bit of a letdown.

Troy Aikman (22:55)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (22:56)

Did you have that happen to you? What did it really feel like?

Troy Aikman (23:01)

Well, I'll take you back a little bit earlier than that. When I was about 14 years old, I couldn't wait to get my driver's license. I mean, I thought that anyone who could drive, how could they ever have a bad day in their life? I mean, I just thought that. How could you ever be upset about anything? I mean, you can drive. Well, you turn 16, you get your driver's license, and you learn to drive and all that, and you've got a car, and then you realize that, hey, you still have bad days. And that always stuck with me. So I've always known that achievement isn't going to. It's not going to fulfill you anymore. I mean, you're proud and you're working towards that, and you reach these goals, but it's not going to make you any happier. It's not. You know, that comes from a totally different place. Now. I will tell you, I was in my 50s before I really figured that part of it out, really. And so. But when I won my. My first Super Bowl, I. I knew it was. At least I knew that was in my back pocket. And that's what I was drafted to do. So that's where the satisfaction came. Like, for the rest of my career, they can't say I can't win the big one. Was it.

Ed Mylett (24:18)

Was it satisfaction or relief?

Troy Aikman (24:22)

Great question. I. I would say, in all honesty, it was. It was more relief.

Ed Mylett (24:26)

Yeah.

Troy Aikman (24:26)

Yeah. Because I was never one of these athletes who. People would say, how come. How come you don't smile more? How come you don't, you know, you don't look like you're really enjoying playing. I. I didn't smile or enjoy it until it was over, until we won, you know, until we won the game. I mean, that's when. That's when you were really able to enjoy the effort. But during it. No, I mean, it was. It was a grind, you know, so but, yeah, I think I. I think in all honesty, it was. It was more. More relief.

Ed Mylett (24:56)

That's been my emotion, too. It's interesting you say that like it wasn't what I thought it would be. Although there's other benefits that come with it that you don't dream of or imagine as well. But it's almost like, okay, a little bit of relief. But the other thing that's unique about you, brother, is that you repeat. And I know it's a team sport, but we're gonna get into broadcasting in a minute. Then you repeated. I mean, most of you know this, but if you don't, I mean, Troy has had this prolific career at Fox. Now he's at Monday Night Football at abc. He's like. He's the number one sports broadcaster in football now. He's also become number one of that. So he's. Guys that has to leave college to go to UCLA because the offense didn't work for him, ends up becoming the number one pick in the draft, ends up being one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and then after that, duplicates it with a career that's been dominant. And by the way, he could be a professional bodybuilder if he wanted to.

Troy Aikman (25:41)

Be right now, too.

Ed Mylett (25:42)

So, like, the guy, and the guy is this. Finds this way to the top position. But a lot of people don't deal very well with rejection or failure, but a lot, A lot. And you know this, whether it's been business, people you've met in your life, or people that are in a good relationship or an athlete, like we're talking about the ufc guys that I work with are the boxers. Guys work really hard to win a championship, and then something happens to them after they win a championship. That hunger, the drive, whatever it is, they don't. Most people deal very poorly with winning, is the truth. It seems like that has not happened to you.

Troy Aikman (26:14)

No, it hasn't. And I think in general, most people. Well, my approach, whether it's in football or whether it was in broadcasting or it's in my personal life, is that most people aren't willing to do the work. I mean, that's what I believe. And I don't know where it came from for me, I don't know if it was the way I was raised by my father, but. And that, to me, is what has driven me throughout my life and in everything that I've done now. The super bowl, as far as that goes, I can't imagine winning a Super bowl and then not being more hungry than you were. And the reason I say that is because it is such a great experience that how could you not want to go and do that again and again?

Ed Mylett (27:03)

But you played with the guys. You didn't.

Troy Aikman (27:04)

You played with guys. And I've seen those teams and we all see, because it is. It's a bit of human nature. Jimmy was great in our repeat Jimmie Johnson, he treated us harder. I mean, he worked us harder the second year and there was a reason for that. Jimmy was a psychology major and he felt that, hey, now is when people get complacent, I'm not going to allow it. And so he worked us even that much harder. But, you know, Ed, I'm asked a lot about why I work out so much, why I do all this, and the reason really is simple, that I feel like my success as a player was because I just refused to be outworked. And so I was gonna do whatever was required. And when I got into broadcasting, I'm not the greatest speaker in the world, but I just said I'm give myself at least a fighting chance and I'm gonna put more time into this. And so I work hard at trying to be as prepared as I possibly can be to go into a broadcast. And then with the working out now, in my personal life, it's been about discipline and commitment. And if I let myself go, I feel like then I become a bit of a fraud. And what I believe is the foundation of who I am and why I've been able to have some degree of success. And so I think it's. You know, when you talk about a through line, when you've been asking me those questions, that's the through line for me. It's discipline, it's consistency, and it's commitment.

Ed Mylett (28:39)

Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. Welcome back to the program, everybody. I'm so fired up today. I have some man I've admired from a distance for so many years. He is one of the great leaders in American sports. He just is. And he does it with a style that is all his own. And it's one that I've admired from a distance. Some of our mutual friends have confirmed what a good man he is for me. And let me tell you, 140 and 33 while he's been at Clemson as the head football coach there. But he started to get better and better. And better. Last three years, only lost three games. Undefeated in 2018, two national championships. The list goes on and on. And this is from a guy who was a walk on at Alabama, by the way, which is even more ironic that you went to Alabama, now you coach at Clemson. But I am honored to have Dabo Sweeney on the program today. Coach, thank you for being here. Thank you, Ed.

Dabo Swinney (29:36)

It's good to be with you, man. This is what a great, great, great treat to be on this podcast or show and opportunity to meet you.

Ed Mylett (29:47)

Yeah, my pleasure, Coach. So we're gonna go all over the place. We're gonna talk leadership, recruiting, culture, all these different things, but this is like a masterclass on leadership and recruiting. But there's one thing I gotta ask you because I've always wondered this about you.

Troy Aikman (30:01)

You.

Ed Mylett (30:02)

Lots of coaches talk about faith in the locker room right before a game. Let's pray together. Or they're Christian men or women that lead teams. You were the first coach that I saw do it outside the locker room in like post game interviews. Now, I'm sure it's been done before, but it's not been done before, to my understanding, on the level you compete at the magnitude of your job. And I remember watching you get interviewed after a game going, this dude fires me up, man. He always acknowledges God. He always says something about his faith. And that's bold. And I actually thought, at first, I thought it was aggressive because. Or amazing because I wonder if it cost him some recruits and it must be okay with him that he does do that. Is that a conscious thing where you're like, I'm going to be bold about what I believe in the locker. I'm the same guy in the locker room that I am in an interview, that I am with my family, that I am coaching baseball. And I'm sure you might have caught a little flack for it at one point in your life for being so bold about it. I just want to know your thoughts about your faith, how it plays into being a coach, a leader, and your boldness about it.

Dabo Swinney (31:04)

Oh, yeah, I've caught a lot of flack about that. I think, you know, that's why the Bible says, you better put your armor on every day. I mean, like, every single day, you know? And listen, I don't judge people or things. I just. I just believe what I believe. And, you know, Colossians 3, 23 says, one of my favorite verses says, it says, whatever you do, do it with all your heart, as if you're working for the Lord. All right? Whatever you do, all right, I tell me, if you're cleaning the room, your bedroom, do it as if you're working for the Lord. Because that's, that's the perspective God wants us to have. And that's, you know, we have a really crazy world. You know, we're in a fallen world. Sin is real. The devil is real, too. Nobody wants to acknowledge that. That's what I believe, alright? And maybe I'm wrong. I'm gonna meet my maker one day, but I know what I believe. And I believe in Jesus and I believe in God. And I believe that in Colossians where it says whatever you do, you do it with all your heart, as if you're working for the Lord. And when you do something with all your heart, you're going to go above and beyond right in everything that you do. And so God, I don't, I don't get how you can separate that. And, and so, yeah, I've had all kind of flak. I've. One year where were some, some, some group that, man, they tried to, you know, come and like, they said all this crazy stuff like, I'm only playing Christian. I'm like, let me tell you something, if I'm only playing Christians, we ain't winning. Like, we winning. I promise you. You know, ain't nobody checking roll at chapel. I got chapel, but, but I don't sit around and go, oh, you didn't come to chapel? You don't play today? No, give me a break. You know, I just think you have to be who you are there. And that's what, that's what I said back then. There's nobody that comes to Clemson. If I was an atheist, guess what? Everybody who came to Clemson would know that. I think you just be who you are. Beautiful, you know, and there's nobody that comes to Clemson and goes, well, that guy, man, I know Coach Sweeney was a Christian, you know, and so I just think you just be who you are. I know what my job is. My job is to win football games. But, but I know who my maker is too. And I know that when you are a person of faith and you're a Christian, that's not something you turn on and off. You know, whatever you do, you do it as if you're working for the Lord. And so, yeah, my paycheck says Clemson University, but let me tell you, at the end of the day, I'm working for the Lord because one of these days there's going to be a scoreboard a whole lot bigger than the One that hangs out here in Death Valley. And it's going to be, you know, dabo, I gave you all these things and all these young people. What did you do for me? And listen, my job's not to save them, but I do feel like that I have a responsibility to be an example. And I try to live. My man, I'm the biggest sinner in the world. I try to live my life in a way that glorifies God. And in those moments, from time to time, listen, I don't ever want anyone. We live in such a superficial world. I don't want anyone to ever think that, man, this is because. Anything that I am is because of God. Anything that I've done is because of God's favor on my life. God's grace, you know, man, God's grace and his favor, his will, His Holy Spirit, you know, leading the way. I mean, that's just how I look at it. And so, because we live in this world now where everybody wants to put you up on this pedestal, and I try to be quick to say, hey, listen, ain't none great about me. If there's anything great about me, it's the Holy Spirit inside of me, all right? And guess what? Everybody can have that. And you said something a minute ago. And listen, greatness is for everyone. And I told our team back in 2013, we beat Ohio State in our first ever BCS win on the Orange Bowl. And then we'd beaten Alabama a couple times, and we've beaten some of these big, big schools. If we walked out there at the middle of the field and we compared checkbooks and we compared budgets and we compared all. We'd get dominated. Yeah, we would get smoke or. If we. Guess what I mean. Number one recruiting classes we've had in 12 years as a head coach. Zero, right? Zero. None. None. You know, so it's not all about that, all right? It's about. It's about people. It's about passion. It's about, you know, synergy, iron sharpening iron. It's about attitude. It's about belief. That's what it's all about. And so, you know, I don't see it as being bold when I give God the glory. You know, I don't want any coach either when I have glory for anything that happens in my life.

Ed Mylett (35:36)

We're two guys that have that in common. I'm a sinner saved by the grace of God, too, thank God. But I'm told that I'm bold when I do it because I catch some criticism for it, just like you do. That's. I think, what I meant by bold. And I like you so much.

Dabo Swinney (35:51)

Yeah, well, I can't worry. I just don't worry about that, you know, I mean, listen. I mean, that outside noise is always going to be there. And again, if we spend our lives sitting around worried about, you know, what we need to worry about is pleasing God. And when you live your life and that's your belief, pleasing God, you're going to upset people. That's just part of it. And you know what the. It goes back to what I said earlier, being inside out, you know, I don't know who said it, but there was a quote.

Ed Mylett (36:20)

I love it.

Dabo Swinney (36:21)

It says, you know, ships don't sink because of the water around them. They sink because the water gets in them.

Troy Aikman (36:26)

Right?

Dabo Swinney (36:26)

And so we can't let all that stuff in us. And, you know, we got to let the light inside of us be brighter than the light on us at all times, you know, and so the light gets bright, man. That was the last thing I told our team in 16. I was like, hey, you know, this is what we got to do. The light's going to be bright, man, but we've got to. We got to let the light inside of us be brighter. What an opportunity that we have. And listen, you know what? Some of the best opportunities that we have is when we have failed miserably.

Ed Mylett (36:55)

All right?

Dabo Swinney (36:57)

That's when. Especially when you're a Christian, you know? And so, you know, it's all good. That's what God teaches us. It's all good. All things. All things work together for the good, for those who love the Lord. And so it's a mindset. It's a mentality. Yeah, it sucks. We hate it. We don't. You know, but guess what? All things.

Ed Mylett (37:17)

All right?

Dabo Swinney (37:17)

And so we're all here for a blink of an eye. I mean, a blur. I mean, we've lived long enough, you and I. We've seen young, young people die. I've spoken at a bunch of funerals. I've had, you know, former players die. I've had family die.

Ed Mylett (37:31)

We've all.

Jim Rome (37:31)

We.

Ed Mylett (37:31)

It's.

Troy Aikman (37:32)

Boom.

Dabo Swinney (37:32)

It's a blink of an eye. So are we going to live for something that's just superficial? You know, that's not my choice. And here's the good thing about the God we serve. He gives us the choice. It's a choice, and it's everybody's choice. But I hope that we can live our lives in a way where maybe other people May say, you know what, there's just something different. And say, well, let me tell you about that. There's this guy named Jesus and man, if you just put your eyes on him in the good and bad and you believe and you don't quit, man, he's, he's gonna, he's gonna bless your life. And some things this side of eternity will never know, we'll never understand, alright? But that's what fate's all about. You know, it's really just, just believing when you don't understand. And then one of these days, when we meet our maker, man, we're gonna, we're gonna celebrate and you know, and see the bigger picture of life.

Ed Mylett (38:29)

So awesome. I was saying earlier, I just like you. I just like you. I respect you, but I like you. I'm so glad I like you. You know, when you have somebody from a distance you've admired, then you meet them, they kind of exceed your expectations. That's a wonderful thing. And you're doing that for me. And I know this for millions of people too. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back to Max out, everybody. I'm Ed Mylett. Fired up about today because this is a man that I've admired from a distance. We have some mutual friends that connected us and today is about really the longest tenured WWE Superstar in the history of the organization. Kind of a leader in the locker room, more television appearances than anybody ever had, the streak at WrestleMania forever. But what I'm excited about is we get to talk out of character now and not just in character the whole time so we can talk about life and growth and longevity and being productive with someone who's highly qualified to do it. So my guest today is the Undertaker, AKA Mark Callaway. So Mark, thanks for being here, brother.

The Undertaker (39:41)

No, thanks for having me, man. I'm excited.

Ed Mylett (39:44)

Talk about the very unique relationship you have with the overall leader of the organization, invents McMahon. It seems that that's become a special friendship forged through loyalty probably more than anything. And I got to think that friendship's been both good to his career and your career as well. So speak to those couple things.

The Undertaker (40:01)

Yeah, absolutely. So as far as the, you know, being the leader, it was never really, it was never really something like I tried to pursue it just, it just kind of happened through the years and I fell into this Unique position where the, the boys, the guy, the wrestlers, you know, they saw what the business meant to me and that the business always came first. No matter what, the business came first. As far when we're out on the road, obviously you know, your family comes first. But in a business sense, when I'm, when I don't care how late we stayed out, how, whatever we did, nightlife wise, it did not affect the next day's performance. If it did, then you knew you were going to get, you know, you get pulled aside, say, look, if you can't handle this, then maybe you shouldn't be doing this. Because at the end of the day, it depends on what we do for our audience the next day. Guys appreciated that, but they knew, like, okay, hey, you know, takes one of us, he goes out and he has a good time just like everybody else. But at bell time, all that goes out the window until after it's all over with. And so, yeah, so there was this and then I had the. Also I had the trust of what we call the office. You know, there's the office and then there's the boys. Somehow another, I kind of landed in the middle. I was always accepted as one of the boys, but the office knew that they could trust me. And there were a lot of times, like whoever our talent relations VP was, there was a lot of times they would come to me and say, hey, this is, you know, we're having this issue. And I could go to the guys or a guy or a person, pull them aside and say, look man, you know, I understand. And they appreciate that because they know that I've been through everything, everything possible to go through. So, you know, it wasn't like, oh, well, you know, Undertaker's a stooge for the Office and he's trying to. Right, you know, they trusted me, so I had that trust on each side. But I could, many times I could talk to somebody and say, hey, look, this is, this is their perspective. Okay, I understand your perspective because I'm, you know, I'm talent, right? I'm telling, I'm with you. So a lot of times that happened and I could divert bigger issues with guys if they could kind of get over, you know, if they could get over the ego. And then they knew and they trusted me enough like, well, you know, taker's not going to screw me over. So it worked out. It worked. It worked out really nice. And then with Vince and the loyalty and everything else.

Troy Aikman (42:58)

I.

The Undertaker (43:00)

So I was told by wcw, I was told I'd been there for about a year. My contract was coming up and I went in to renegotiate my contract. And I wasn't looking for a huge bump, but I was looking for.

Troy Aikman (43:16)

I'd been.

The Undertaker (43:17)

I had a pretty good year and I was just looking for a slight, just a slight bump. And I was told by Jim Hurd, who was running the company at the time, Ole Anderson and Jim Barnett, they looked me square in my eyes and they said, you're a great athlete, but no one's ever going to pay money to watch you wrestle. Seriously. Okay, that's all I needed to hear. So I get a meeting with Vince and you know, he eventually gives me that opportunity and that's all he ever promised me was an opportunity. He didn't ever told me, hey, you're gonna be, you're gonna be this guy here for 30 years and do all these things. He said, I'm gonna give you an opportunity. And then. But that's all. I always remembered when I did become a commodity, when WCW wanted me back, you know, they wanted to pay me big bucks because they were paying everybody big bucks. Yeah, you know, it's like, no, I can't do that. You know, they're offering me a lot more money, but this is the man who made me. And that's just the way it is. And then obviously we just. We've been through so much together professionally, personally, that, you know, most times now, I don't even deal with Vince hardly. When it comes to business, our relationship, 90% of the time is more of that of friends than it is of business. Unless there's a special ask that nobody else wants to ask me to do, then they say, okay, you're the only one that's going to be able to get him to do it. So, yeah.

Ed Mylett (44:55)

Before we start the interview with my next guest, just want to remind you all that you can subscribe to the show on YouTube or follow the show on Apple or Spotify. We have all the links in our show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Now, on with the show. Welcome back to Max Out. I'm Ed Mylett and I am so fired up about today's program because I have one of the most successful human beings on the spinning earth right now that is under 35 years old. This guy to my right, right here, you all know who he is. You can tell from looking at him, but let me give him the right introduction. Okay? This young man right here founded Elite Daily, sold that thing for about $50 million. He's one of the great thought leaders on social media today. He's a serial entrepreneur. Forbes magazine called you the millennial mentor.

Troy Aikman (45:39)

Right.

Ed Mylett (45:40)

And above all of that stuff, having getting to know him today, I must tell you my favorite thing about him is the caliber of man that you are and how generous you are and your spirit and your heart and your character. So today is going to be amazing. And so this is Gerard Adams. Gerard, thanks for being here, brother.

Gerard Adams (45:55)

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. So inspired right now. It's one thing when you look through the lens of social media and you look through on the video, it's another when you're able to actually come and feel the energy and see it. And most importantly, right back at you, brother. Like, there's a lot of successful people in the world, but for me, it's about character.

Ed Mylett (46:16)

Yeah.

Gerard Adams (46:16)

And not only do you show up for your community, but the way that you are, you know, when I met you and how humble you are and how welcoming you were for me and our team. Really appreciate that, man.

Ed Mylett (46:26)

Thank you. It's my pleasure, man, to have you here. You know, I wanted you to do this for a long time. And so the stars align. So let's do something great here today. I hope my billing of you was accurate because Gerard has a lot, you know, the very few people you would meet with the success that Gerard's had so young, who has kept such a humble spirit about them too, and such a generous, giving person. So. But I think some of that, having got to know you a little bit, has to do with your upbringing. I always like to take people back just a little bit. So you grew up a little bit like I did, in the middle, right in the middle class. But tell everybody, you know, just a little bit about young Gerard. Even though I still think you're young, but young, Young Gerard, how'd you grow up? Tell us about your background.

Gerard Adams (47:05)

Well, you know, I. I really had an unbelievable upbringing because I had a really strong, you know, group of parents like my mother, you know, she just really showed me a love and compassion and empathy and like, the things that, you know, you know, a lot of people I feel like don't have. That's worth more than anything in the world. And my father was just a strong man. You know, he really instilled the leadership in a very young age.

Jim Rome (47:33)

What he used to do is used.

Gerard Adams (47:35)

To write notes and leave them for me hidden and throughout my house, really. So if I went to go get a glass of milk, there's a freaking little ripped up note in There. If I went to bed, there's something under. When I pull the blanket up. If I wanted to go to school. He's dropping some. Something in a freaking notebook for me or something. And there were these, you know, just quotes from whether it was John F. Kennedy, Marcus Aurelius, you know, just different leaders. And for me, you don't really understand it when you're really young, you're kind of like, oh, this is kind of cool again. But I really started to appreciate it as I started to get older. So I grew up with unbelievable parents, hard working. They really instilled the work ethic for me. But I walked to school, I took the bus. I loved bmx. I was a skater. And you know, for me, I was just a very creative person.

Ed Mylett (48:20)

Even young.

Gerard Adams (48:21)

Yeah, I had charisma even when I was young. I used to make my own clothes. I used to, I loved. I begged my parents for one thing only put me into art school.

Ed Mylett (48:28)

Really?

Gerard Adams (48:29)

Yeah, I wanted to go to art school.

Ed Mylett (48:30)

Were you the only child?

Gerard Adams (48:31)

No, I have two unbelievable sisters.

Ed Mylett (48:34)

Okay.

Jim Rome (48:34)

Yes.

Ed Mylett (48:35)

Did he do the same thing for them? Was he writing them notes too? Is that something he did?

Jim Rome (48:37)

Just when.

Gerard Adams (48:38)

You know what's funny, I've actually never asked them.

Ed Mylett (48:40)

Yeah. Be interesting to know, wouldn't it? Were you the only one getting these notes?

Gerard Adams (48:45)

You know, it was just, you know, they were. He was very protective of my sisters.

Ed Mylett (48:50)

Okay. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Gerard Adams (48:52)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (48:52)

As a dad.

Gerard Adams (48:52)

And he just, you know, they were way more educated and of course, he nurtured them. With me, it was a little more tough love.

Ed Mylett (49:01)

And your mom, by the way, I just get to see your mom's a major influence just because of how hard she worked. And I watched earlier when you talked about your mom. There's certainly something very special there with you and your mom too, right? What you learn from mom?

Gerard Adams (49:12)

Well, you know, on both sides of my family, I'm extremely grateful of my heritage.

Ed Mylett (49:19)

Which is what, by the way, people? I mean, I know you get asked this all the time, right?

Gerard Adams (49:23)

I'm so Colombian and Italian, but, you know, my mother's side. I'm just. Must say like 30 days ago, I went and visited my grandfather. He turned 99 years old. And I, you know, I said it to myself, I wrote it down like, my grandfather's turning 99 this year. I don't care what I'm doing, I don't care what interview, I don't care what. Who wants to pay me for anything but business, you know, opportunity. There is. I am going to See my grandfather to help celebrate his 99, and ask him these questions about immigrating to this country. And, you know, I'm second generation, and I just feel like, you know, my mom's, you know, parents, my grandparents, they came here, you know, with that typical immigrant story, with nothing. My grandfather came here first, then he sent back for my grandmother.

Jim Rome (50:08)

And my mother.

Gerard Adams (50:09)

My mother was born in Colombia, and she came here. So I think that that work ethic and that, you know, and just the appreciation for. For being here and, like, and. And making and building a life is inside, instilled in my mom. And then. So I'm really. I really think about that, and that's what really drives me. But it was the moment that I saw my mom working seven days a week in a supermarket. And that was my first job. You know, I wanted to work.

Jim Rome (50:34)

I wanted.

Gerard Adams (50:34)

You know, my parents weren't, like, they didn't give me things, like, I had to earn it. So my first job, believe it or not, was like, working at the supermarket where my mom worked. She was an employee there. And I'd never forget getting that first paycheck. And it was like, maybe $300. And I looked at that paycheck, and I remember just seeing my mom working there, and I'm just like, wow. Like, there's no way. Like, I gotta get my mom out of this. Like, this isn't real money. Like, how, you know, and at that moment, I started to really feel and think about that. I'm so proud of them. I'm so proud of what they've done.

Ed Mylett (51:08)

You watch your mom work, you see this struggle that she's gone through. You go away to college, which I. I'm sure was like, a major priority for your dad and your mom, especially for you to go. Right? But you didn't last in college. And so I want people that are listening this, because a lot of millennials are gonna watch this because you're here. They're in my audience as well. What happened with you in college?

Gerard Adams (51:26)

Well, this is a. This is really interesting. I really didn't want to go to college. I was a bad kid right before graduating high school. In fact, I lost touch with a lot of my, you know, my good friends that I had grown up with early. I started hustling weed when I was in high school, and I almost had a moment that really set me back. And I'll never forget the day my father caught me scaling in my bedroom. And typically, you know, I was old school. My dad's a little bit more of an old school Italian. So, like, growing up, if I did something wrong, like, he kind of like.

Jim Rome (51:56)

I got the belt.

Gerard Adams (51:57)

Like, my dad, like, pushed me around. It wasn't like.

Ed Mylett (51:59)

I know what you mean.

Gerard Adams (52:00)

You know what I mean?

Ed Mylett (52:01)

I relate.

Gerard Adams (52:01)

And I had a moment where I got pulled over and I think thought that moment I was about to get arrested and it was gonna completely. Oh, my God, ruin, you know, my. The respect that my father would have for me and just for my community. And that story I've talked about, but someone who's committing grand theft auto in front of me. And when I was doing this drop off, they ended up figuring that out, letting that person go and saying, hey, kid, all right, get out of here. And when I had drove all the day, that was the date, I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to college.

Troy Aikman (52:33)

Whoa.

Gerard Adams (52:33)

Okay. Like, I got it. I got to take this muscle mentality and I got to learn about business. Like, I cannot be someone who ends.

Ed Mylett (52:41)

Up life altering moment.

Gerard Adams (52:42)

That was a life altering moment for me. But I ended up crying during graduation because my father wanted me to get into a good college. He wanted me to go to Princeton, and I went to. I got into barely a community college. So I remember just completely freaking distraught.

Ed Mylett (52:57)

Being like, were you crying because you thought you let your dad down?

Gerard Adams (53:00)

Actually, no. I was actually really more about the fact that, like, the people that I had been friends with, they were going to these great schools and I was alone going to this community college. And I was like, I'm such a disappointment to myself. But going to college that first semester, I instantly was like, this just isn't for me.

Ed Mylett (53:22)

You just knew.

Gerard Adams (53:22)

I just knew.

Jim Rome (53:23)

I think it was part of the.

Gerard Adams (53:24)

Reason why I hustled. Like, I just always was this creative. I wanted to be outside the box. I didn't want to be, you know, I wanted to break the rules.

Ed Mylett (53:33)

That's that art thing in you, huh?

Gerard Adams (53:34)

The art thing in me. Very creative to this day. And, you know, being in school, I was like, this isn't for me.

Ed Mylett (53:40)

Yeah, I went to college and it's one of the things that I. You know, there's more and more people I interviewed, but that wasn't their thing. And I think the consciousness about that is changing too. Because when I was in college, one of the things that I observed too, is, like, it just sort of brings out these cookie cutter people. The business school, you know. Yeah. And it sort of squashes from people their ambition, their creativity. I'm not knocking college at all. I have a degree Me neither. Do you mean and I'm pro.

Gerard Adams (54:01)

Jason, if I would tell them it's.

Ed Mylett (54:04)

A great debate in my family. My wife's like, they don't need to go to college. I go, absolutely, they're going to college. Well, they're going to be entrepreneurs anyway. It'll give them experience and it's an achievement. It shows work and finishing an idea. That was a great conversation. Be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back to Max out, everybody. I'm so excited about today's show because this is somebody that I admired from a distance for shoot a couple decades now at a minimum. And to put it bluntly, he is the most successful man in the history of his craft. He's the most successful man in the history of sports radio. And he's done a whole lot more than that when it comes to television as well. Right now, the Jim Rome show is hosted on the CBS Sports Radio Network at simulcast over to the CBS Sports Network. He also makes appearances on CBS for the NFL and he's had a storied career in an area and an arena that I'm very, very fond of. And it's great to have him with me here today. So, Jim, thanks for being here.

Jim Rome (54:59)

That is so good to see you. Boy, that is some kind of view, my man. That lives up to all the hype. That is a beautiful, beautiful scene. Well done.

Ed Mylett (55:06)

Very blessed for sure. And so have you been, by the way, I'm curious as we start because, you know, most of my audience knows you for sure and I've admired you for so long and one of the things I admire about you is your humility for how successful you've become. But today I want to give you permission to be. You can brag a little bit when it comes to the truth about your career. So I want to ask you, how did you get started? Because I know that you went to University of Santa Barbara because we were both in the Big West Conference, but did you know way before you even got to Santa Barbara that this is what you wanted to do?

Jim Rome (55:34)

You know, I would say this my, my only advantage I think that I really had was I did know exactly what I wanted to do at an early age. You know, unlike you, I mean, I had professional athletic aspirations, but I did figure out early on this was not going to happen for me. You have to understand, I grew up in Los Angeles at a very different time, when there was no Internet and there was no cable. But I was obsessed with sports, man, I loved it. I had my childhood heroes, and I couldn't get enough. I mean, if my old man was not saying to me, get your ass out of the house, it's beautiful day, I would have watched sports all day long and read sports. But I did realize at a pretty early age that I could not hit a curveball. I was not blessed with this great size and ability, so how do I stay in sports? And I just kind of got it in my head, maybe I could be on the radio. Maybe if I got really lucky, I could be on tv. So I knew at an early age, and what that did for me, Ed, was I knew that the second I got to UC Santa Barbara, I checked into the dorm and I went right to the radio station, and I never left. And I just kind of locked in. So my one advantage was I knew when you're not supposed to know, who knows when they enter college what they want to do. Did you know, well, you want to be a pro baseball player?

Ed Mylett (56:37)

And it didn't work, right? Yeah, you ended up doing what you wanted.

Jim Rome (56:39)

But I think it's like, my son just started college. It's okay not to know when you start college, right?

Ed Mylett (56:44)

Absolutely.

Jim Rome (56:44)

But I knew, and I was willing to lock in and start paying the price. So, yes, I knew.

Ed Mylett (56:48)

That's awesome. So you get started. I was a radio TV broadcast major. I was a communication major. And one of the things that I tell all entrepreneurs is I think especially in this day and age with the Internet technology, everybody wants stuff to happen right now, right? Like, hey, man, I'm give this a shot for six months. I'm going to make a run at this, you know, until it hurts a little bit. One of the things I admired about you because you chose a craft that it does not happen quickly in. So what about, like, staying power? You get going, you leave Santa Barbara. It's not like the next year you're, you know, in San Diego, you know, becoming the gym Rome that we know now.

Jim Rome (57:21)

No, there's lots of layers to that. It's a really interesting question. You know, like Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan, so they get punched in the face. Everybody's like, I'm gonna do this. Like, when I was in Santa Barbara, we all thought we would go right to the top because you're in college and you're naive and you don't know how the world works just yet. So we all believe that until you actually get into it. And then all of a sudden, you see what's going on around you. So when I was a young person in the business, I would apply myself. But then I see my other friends who are not in the business, and they're going to law school, or they got into marketing, or they got into sales, or they went to Wall street and they're killing it. And all of a sudden, now I'm still grinding in market 174, which is Santa Barbara, and I'm not making much money, and all my buddies are just thriving, and they're killing it. It's at that point that people start to say, it's a dream. It's a pipe dream. It's not meant to be. It's not for me. I'm gonna give in. And then people give in. So I would say, this is a great story. I knew not to give in. But you. But you know what I did? I was one of the guys that gave in. So here's what happened. When I was in college, I had seven internships in three and a half years because I was obsessed, man. I was like. I was terrified of falling behind, and I was so committed. But then I had one bad experience. I got punched in the face once and did not react well to it. I worked for a radio station in Santa Barbara for free for nine months. A paid position opened up. The news director says to me, you're the guy. You've earned it. It's your time. I'm just getting you cut a demo tape. We play it for the owner, and then you're in. The owner hears it. He hates it. He goes, I'm not hiring that guy. And I'm like, wow. But I had a fallback plan. My parents owned a business. So I go to my old man because I have visions of, there's the BMW, there's the house, there's the presidency. So I go to my tough old man from Boston. I'm like, hey, dad, listen, I want to go to work for you. He goes, no, no. I'm like, dad, every old man wants their son to follow in their footsteps, their legacy. He's like, not this one. And I'm looking at him like, what? And he says to me, you've never once displayed any interest in the family company. You don't come to me now, right now, and say, you want to? No. He said, no. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, what do I do? I want to control my own fate and my own destiny and Then radio is not fair. Life's not fair. So I talked him into it. I wore him down. I. Because I always had this kind of drive and passion. I wore him down. I worked on him for six months. Of course it was the wrong thing for the wrong reason. He fired me. And then, you know, to make this super long story short, I've never heard this before. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

Ed Mylett (59:47)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (59:47)

So he. And keep in mind, I grew up at a. At a dinner table every night when my parents owned a small business. They were manufacturers, and they manufactured high tech garments, and they had a factory in Chatsworth. And I heard every day at dinner, business is business. Business is business. You take care of the business, the business will take care of you. So about six months in, he fires me nicely. But business is business. He said, what are you gonna do now? I said, I'm gonna get a sales job. He looks at me like I'm crazy. He's like, you suck at sales. I just fired you. I'm like, no, I suck at selling your product. I will sell something else. I got a job working at Harris Lanier selling dictation equipment. Oh, my God. And because when I went to a headhunter, they said, we're gonna send you out. And here's the best one. Here's the one that everybody wants. I can always sell me.

Ed Mylett (60:31)

Yeah, you're right.

Jim Rome (60:32)

But nothing else. So I got the job. I stayed there 38 days. I quit. They're furious. And then I'm selling phone equipment, and it's going terrible, man. I'm getting my face beat in. And finally, in a fit of just. I'm near tears, I call my old boss where I had an internship in Santa Barbara. And I said, my life. He. He's like, hey, Rome, what's going on? I'm like, nothing good. Nothing good. He's like, what? I lay out my whole sales life. I'm a failure. I'm worth nothing. Do you have any radio work in Santa Barbara? He said, I got one thing. 30 hours vacation, relief traffic reports, $5 an hour. Do you want it? I said, yes, yes. And I tell my old man. He's like, how are you gonna live? I said, I have no idea, but my life is going right down the gutter. I got to get back up there. And so I committed to this at $5 an hour, 30 hours a week, for one month. No benefits, because the kid was on vacation for Christmas. And I said, I'll figure it out when I get up there. I just know that I'm not good at sales, brother. I don't even know where that question started. Sorry about that.

Ed Mylett (61:37)

No, no, I knew your whole story and I did not know that part of it. Like, that's a huge thing. Like, I'm so grateful you said this because a lot of entrepreneurial types listen to this, right? Probably in your life, you know, you've pursued the business side and maybe a lot of you listen this right now, you've gone back to some goofy plan B that you know you don't belong at. You know, it's not your calling. You know, you're not great at it. It's like this place you're kind of hiding because this other thing so painful. And it's really cool to know that. I mean, and you're humble about it. But someone who becomes the best of all time at what they do. This man's in the radio hall of fame, guys. I mean, legitimately, three decades plus on the air, I mean, the staying power has been unreal. To know that you went through this little stage where you were a little bit lost is nuts to me.

Jim Rome (62:19)

Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Ed Mylett (62:20)

Yeah. No, no, what I was going to say, the thing that I admire about you is that post that it seems to me you made this decision like, okay, I went and played with this stuff I'm not any good at. And then there's becomes this part of you. I love what you talk about this. You're like, this is what I'm going to do now. I'm going to figure this shit out. And it's like a burn the boats type thing for you. You've almost got this theory about success that it doesn't always go to the necessarily the most talented person with the most gifted person, but it goes to the who.

Jim Rome (62:44)

No. And I've seen you talk about this as well, that it's not always the talent, but it's the grind and it's the effort and it's the dedication. And I think that's where the separation is. And by the way, if you know that you're not the most talented guy and you know that you're not the most brilliant person, what are you going to do? Like, here's the one thing, the one thing that I had aside from I knew what I wanted to do at a pretty early age, I knew the price that I was willing to negotiate with myself to get that done. That's the other sidebar. When I was in UC Santa Barbara, I thought nothing of getting up at 4:30 in the morning to go Work an internship for free. When the other kids were saying, dude, I'm not going to make that 8 o' clock class. And I'm not saying I'm a hero for doing that. In fact, I'm kind of a loser for doing it. Because I was terrified of falling behind. I was afraid that somebody else would get that gig if I didn't do it. But because I knew what I wanted to do and because I negotiated that price with myself at an early age, it was nothing for me. In fact, it felt good, man. I've heard you talk about this like the dopamine that goes off in your head. It was a drug, it was an adrenaline thing. It was natural. I felt good. I was getting up early, going to work, getting the line on the resume. So I felt good. But at the same time, to your point, the reason I was self aware and that the one other advantage I had, I did this. I did this math. When I got to ucsb, I thought to myself, why you? Why you? You were not a professional athlete. You don't have an amazing look, you don't have an amazing voice, yet you want to be on the radio, yet you want to be on tv. Exactly. What do you have to bring to it? Why you? And I couldn't answer the question at first. And I thought, man, if I don't come up with that answer, I'm not going to make it. So why you? Why you? Why you? And what I finally came down to was this. It's going to be me. Because I'm going to come at it differently, with a different slant. Rather than being the answer man on the radio, I'm going to come at it with a declarative slant, a point of view, a take, have a take, don't suck. And then the other thing that I was going to bring to it, if I wasn't smarter and I wasn't better, I damn well were going to want it. I was going to want it worse than anybody else. Yeah, I was not gonna give in. I was not going to give in. And I learned my lesson by going into business and sales. Luckily, I got my face beat in. So now I knew what it took. I'm like, this time you don't punk out, you lock in. No matter. It's not up to you to know how long it's gonna take. You just put your head down and you go to war until you find out.

Troy Aikman (65:08)

I freaking love it.

Jim Rome (65:09)

That was my thing.

Ed Mylett (65:10)

I freaking love it. And that's what you're, that's what people That I know that know you, that's what you're known for. This dude has a psycho work ethic. He's ferocious. And I'm curious about the mechanism that drives you. Like that's loaded with stuff there for all of you trying to do something great. I want to, I'm curious. You said something like, almost like fear based. Like hey, I might miss this or it may get past me or I'm. That self awareness piece is monster. You and I both, most of the most successful people we know are very self aware.

Jim Rome (65:36)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (65:36)

They know what they're good at, they know what they're not good at.

Jim Rome (65:38)

That's it.

Ed Mylett (65:38)

Do you agree with that?

Jim Rome (65:39)

Yes, I do.

Ed Mylett (65:40)

Yeah. Immediately in meeting you too, it's like, this is, this is one of your great gifts. And I think it also gives you an element of humility too. Like I know what I'm not good at, so I'm going to have to outwork somebody. But I'm curious, what's made you. To this day, I don't know the answer. I'm curious, do you have this little thing where you're afraid it may leave you? Is that a driving mechanism for you or is it always what you're trying to create? Which, which one moves you?

Jim Rome (66:03)

It really is both those things. And I think one drives the other. And understand this, I don't. Yeah, I have this fear that they're gonna come to me one day. Hey, listen, if they came to me today, if I walked outside your door and somebody came to me and said, yo man, you've had a pretty good run, we really don't care. The last thing this world needs is a 50 something smack talker and you hit the bricks. A hole that I far exceeded anything that I ever thought that I would do. And it was a great run. However, I don't want it to end. And not for the reasons you may think. Like, I'm not one of those guys. Like, I gotta be on the radio, I gotta be on tv, I gotta. It's not about that ego. It's about the process. It's about wanting to be relevant. It's about me still wanting to be competitive. It's about me wanting to have another act. It's about me wanting to reinvent. It's about me wanting to have people look at me and my brand and say, damn, man, that guy's not looking for an off ramp. That guy's not going away. I still care what that guy thinks because one day it will be over and it will be a great Run. But, man, I feel good. And I'm still really motivated by the puzzle. Like, the whole world has changed. It's not the way it was when I got in or when you were getting in. So now it's up to me intellectually to figure it out again. And I want to be able to say, hey, man, I did not give in. And the world changed and I changed with it and I'm still relevant. And that's important to me. That still gets me out of bed.

Ed Mylett (67:16)

Like, literally right now. As much as when you're that guy that got the $5 paid 30 day deal, like, you think you want it that bad still right now?

Jim Rome (67:22)

Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I. And I frequently, I don't keep notes, but I don't have to. I remember what my mindset was, was a weird deal. You probably know this too. Like, I could get into a flow state back then. Like, I knew. I knew I'd walk around campus and I could lose an hour at a time because I was just so into this. This is what I need to do. This is what I want. And if you think about it hard enough and you're vivid enough with your imagery and how badly you want it, you lose time, don't you?

Ed Mylett (67:48)

You do.

Jim Rome (67:48)

You get into a flow state.

Ed Mylett (67:50)

You do.

Jim Rome (67:51)

And I knew it. And so now I'm trying to think back. Well, think like any athlete, right? The guys always. They want to get back in the flow state. So when they had their best game ever, what did they do? They thought about what they did that morning. They thought about what music they listened to. They thought about the rituals. And I'm trying to think, man, do it again. Do it again.

Ed Mylett (68:08)

Do you have a big ritual you do? We have anything specific you do. You get up real early, don't you?

Jim Rome (68:11)

Yeah, I drink coffee. That's my ritual. Yeah, I get up. I get up early, but not as early as I would like. And I fight that thing every single day. But. But I try to be very ritualistic about it, man, get up, get going, get to work, lock in. And you know, like anybody else, like any entrepreneur watching, get yourself to do the things that you do not want to do. Because that's also one of the separators between those who do. And don't make yourself do the things you do not want to do and do them consistently.

Ed Mylett (68:38)

You guys see why I wanted them on you guys.

Jim Rome (68:41)

I think because a lot of us read the same things, think about the same things. Like, even before I got into this, I probably read a lot of of the stuff that you read on the way up, I would read Zig Ziglar, Og Mandino, Tom Hopkins, Me too, Dale Carnegie, you know, like. And some of it resonated more than some of the other stuff.

Troy Aikman (68:58)

But.

Jim Rome (68:58)

But I read a lot of that stuff too.

Ed Mylett (69:00)

I have this feeling, and you don't need to acknowledge it, I think that some of your brand is going to end up in this area. I think that here's what's rare about you and it is, it's significantly different about you. One, you were born with some incredible giftedness to articulate thoughts. Let's be real. I mean, you're given a great voice. You were given the ability to think and process information through your mouth at the speed of thought. That's a very rare thing. But you seem to be, I think, a lot of people. Success leaves clues. I think there are a lot of people and you've met them too. I don't think they can explain to you why they're successful. A lot of people have arrived to success because they're not self aware. They can't explain to you the steps. You're very unique and that you do know what the things were that made you who you are and you can articulate them very well. I think you'd be short changing people by not doing more of this stuff.

Jim Rome (69:46)

This is fun.

Troy Aikman (69:47)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (69:48)

I mean, I like this. I've always, I've always, I've always liked this. And again, I don't. I think about these things. I think the reason I can articulate it is because I've thought about it long and hard because of what you're talking about. I really, I'm not being cute when I say this. I really think that I'm. I'm pretty average in most things. So I wanted to figure out where I could be above average or way above average. And the only thing I kept coming back to was have a very different approach to the format as it exists. And if you're lucky, people will like it. And then control what you can control. And that's your attitude and your energy and your grit and your ability to deal with adversity and bounce back.

Troy Aikman (70:26)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (70:26)

And you do something else. I've seen guys that outwork everybody the first year or two or the third or fourth year. And then there's this point where like they're bought. We all know these. They just get bought with their success. Their price tag gets met and then all of a sudden they don't show up like they used to. They don't they don't innovate, they don't evolve, they don't think through. For most people, what makes you special, why I was so attracted to you is it's 30 plus years and you're still trying to get better. You're still fighting for these inches. That's the separators. Like that's what, that's what separates to me, someone like a LeBron in his 17th year, somebody else. Don't you?

Jim Rome (71:02)

100%. I was just going to say to you that you will, you will recognize this. It is exactly like LeBron. It's exactly like your guy Tom Brady. Explain to me how people who've had that much success, that have paid that kind of price, that have all the shiny things and the view of the ocean, why are they still working as hard as they are? Because you know what? It wasn't about the shiny things. It wasn't necessarily about that money, man. It was about the right stuff. Who in their right mind is still getting up at 3:30 in the morning when they've got money that they can't get to and their kids can't get to and they can't get to because they still want it so badly? This is what I'm saying. This is why I watch you and we talk to similar people. How do you bottle this stuff? How do we get this stuff?

Ed Mylett (71:48)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (71:48)

And how do we go to our kids? Right, right, right. How do you do that? How. By the way, that's a whole sidebar. But when you have this, your kids aren't coming up the way you came up.

Troy Aikman (71:58)

That's right.

Ed Mylett (71:59)

I have a dad. I know.

Jim Rome (72:00)

Your kid never went to a public shower at a swimming pool. Right. Because this old man busted his ass. So how do you put that in your kid? And by the way, if they don't want it as badly as us, that's fine. That's okay. However, just know the whole world isn't this. It's tough out there.

Ed Mylett (72:16)

I do think one of the ways you do it. By the way, I have a dad from Boston too. I was born in Boston and my dad.

Jim Rome (72:21)

You were born in Boston?

Troy Aikman (72:22)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (72:22)

And my mom. My dad and mom are Boston too. But one of the things I've tried to do, and you have the same situation. Your children have grown up completely different than you grew up. Right. But one of the things I think is a key to that is that they have seen their old man still after it. In other words, they've linked it to the work. So many kids that get to this Another thing. So you have a success if you have children, you know, your children may be later in life, then your effort was paid, your price was paid. My kids have still seen me paying the price even after the money part. Don't you think?

Jim Rome (72:53)

Oh, yeah.

Ed Mylett (72:53)

And same with yours. Like, I bet if I asked your, your kids, they'd be like, hey, one thing about my dad, he's a horse. This dude gets up and goes all the time. They've linked what they see you doing to the work. Supposed to. Maybe someone who inherited it or something.

Jim Rome (73:05)

You'll get this. Like my son Jake. So now he's a freshman at the University of Madison. Wisconsin or Wisconsin? Madison. And what I do on Fridays, we have a little ritual. I'll go in my backyard. It's probably like you, Ed, like how hard do you work just to get the five feet over there? It's not easy, right?

Ed Mylett (73:21)

Right.

Jim Rome (73:21)

And so you spent your whole life trying to get to those five feet. But I bet it's hard to get. Unless you already understand. I know I'm killing myself to get to that backyard. And it doesn't happen very often. On Friday afternoon, once I put in a long work week and I've done my workout, I'll go in the backyard and I'll pour myself a dull beverage and I'll take a picture of it and I'll send it to my kid and I'll write, cheers. Love you, son. And you know what he says to me? Dad, now pops, pops, you earn that. Enjoy that.

Ed Mylett (73:47)

I love that.

Jim Rome (73:48)

And I'm like, man, that is just so deep. Like, it worked.

Ed Mylett (73:53)

He got it before he left the house.

Jim Rome (73:54)

Not, not I love you, I miss you. Send money. That may all come later on, but the text always says, you earned it. Enjoy that.

Ed Mylett (74:01)

I love that. Beautiful, man. That's beautiful. That's the key, man. That's one of the keys. One of the things you've done well that I've noticed. So you said something that is another line that I agree with, line of thinking. I mean, I had a guy on here a few weeks ago, Mark Laurie, he runs Walmart. Said a couple big exits. Successful, pretty good, by the way, Just at the combine for 250 grand. He's a 43 year old, middle aged white dude. For 250, he races Jerry Rice in the 40.

Jim Rome (74:25)

How'd that go?

Ed Mylett (74:25)

He beat him.

Jim Rome (74:26)

Yeah, man, he beat Jerry. By the way, Jerry's taking care of himself.

Ed Mylett (74:29)

Jerry's in still good shape. This isn't like running against some guys. Put on £30. He beat him. It's just.

Jim Rome (74:33)

I guarantee you want some rich guy to beat him.

Ed Mylett (74:35)

Yeah, I know. Like legit. Right around about 5, flat 40. Which at that age is remarkable. Right. Anyway, one of the things he said was I said, give me some advice for entrepreneurs. And he said, find something that already exists and just do it better. Quit trying to make up some brilliant things.

Jim Rome (74:48)

Interesting.

Ed Mylett (74:48)

And what you've done on your show. I want you to talk about this for a minute. One of the separators for entrepreneurs for any business is culture. Your show with the vine, the jungle, the clones, have a take, don't suck. The way you lead the group, the way you talk to them, there's a culture to the gym, roam, experience. Did you consciously kind of create that whole deal?

Jim Rome (75:09)

Not consciously, but I think was part and parcel of what I was doing, that it was different and I didn't know how they would react to it. Here's the funny thing. The real secret of the whole thing is I just did on the radio what I was doing with my buddies in college. We just talk shit. I just love sports. And that's just the way I saw the world. Literally. I did not sit around with a legal pad at night and just think of, I'm gonna just make up all these terms and just like call the Knicks the bricks because they can't shoot the ball. That really was the way I saw the world, you know, and we would just talk shit. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. They might pay me to come up with this as a format, right? So. But luckily, again, understand the world that I came into. When I got my first big break in 1990, not to date myself, there were two sports talk radio stations in America, Fan in New York, and Extra Sports 690. In fact, when I started to apply for that station, which is a whole different story onto itself, they weren't even all sports. They were like news talk. But they had the Chargers rights and there was a sports talk show in the afternoon.

Ed Mylett (76:04)

Were they the mighty 690?

Jim Rome (76:05)

Sure was.

Ed Mylett (76:06)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (76:06)

Mighty 690, exactly. So there was. There was nothing. And when they did that, there certainly was not a format like that. You had a couple of gunners that would kind of come pretty hard. But I just came at it a whole different way, with a vernacular and the way I was kind of going after athletes and doing tough interviews, but smart. I want to make sure that I could always back up what I was saying. Like, even if you didn't agree with it, it was well reasoned. I didn't just get on there and start running off the mouth.

Ed Mylett (76:29)

You're not a hot taker. You, like, really believe the things you're saying.

Jim Rome (76:31)

Yeah, you might not like me at all, but this is really who I am. Now. That said, I think part of your thing might be like, I want to talk to this guy. Because I think there's more to this guy than that guy who's on the radio. Of course it's a show. Now, don't get me wrong. I mean. I mean, I mean what I say, and I say what I mean. And I wouldn't walk any of this back except the stuff that I was factually wrong about. I mean, this is who I am, but I don't go around talking smack 24 and 7. It is a show. The one thing I did figure out too be different. Never give in. Always keep coming. But give them a show. That much I understood early in my life. Make it a show. It's showbiz.

Ed Mylett (77:05)

Anything you regret you've done.

Jim Rome (77:08)

I mean, sure. I mean, sure there. Yeah.

Ed Mylett (77:11)

I mean, yeah.

Jim Rome (77:11)

I kind of regret calling Jim Everett Chris several times. I know he was. So I regret that and understand that situation better. That's really interesting. So Jim Everett, people know. A lot of people know me as the guy, the quarterback, attack him. Understand this about this incident. That was not a setup. That was not me. People think this really. What happened was. There's a whole backstory to it that I've told a few times. But this guy was coming on the show, and it was kind of interesting how it got booked.

Ed Mylett (77:37)

Okay.

Jim Rome (77:38)

Like, I didn't. I didn't say, go get this guy as a guest, but I always had a standing policy. Yes. You understand that. That's good. We have always had a standing policy, especially back in the day when I was really coming hard, really coming hard, that if somebody And I could tell you lots of stories about athletes that had an issue, and I said, if you have an issue. Here I am. Here I am. Come on the show and we'll discuss this. And we'll be up. Let's put them all on the table, man. And so he wanted to be on the show, and I'd been pretty critical of him. And I said, good, that's fine. But I didn't know how that came to be. So I said to my booker, did you call him? And my booker said, no, he called us. I said, okay, because that's what my policy was. And then right before, like, the night before, and I asked the question a few times. Now you Called him. He called us, right? Yes, yes, yes, Jim, he called us right before my booker admits to me, I called him. I said, all right, let's get on the phone and be sure that he knows. He knows. So my producer, who is an extraordinarily successful guy, my name, Mark Shapiro, he ran ESPN for years. He now is with William Morris, where I am right now. And he said, hey, listen, you know Rome has called you. Chris Everett. Yes, we know. He's talking to him. He's like, yes, I know. You know, he's gonna say it on the show because he would never not say to a guy's face what he said about him on the radio. Yes, I know. We know what show we're getting on, but this is not gonna be the show. We really wanna do this interview. There's a lot here. He's like, I know, I'm aware. And then he came on and then I said it, and then he goes, I bet you don't do it again. And I said it again. So one regret is I didn't need to say it again, you know, and I really, honestly, I didn't know he was that angry. It was live TV and I didn't play live.

Ed Mylett (79:20)

It was live.

Jim Rome (79:20)

It was live.

Troy Aikman (79:21)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (79:21)

And so I was a really bad day at work for me. Jim, good to have you on the show.

Dabo Swinney (79:24)

Good to be here, Jim. Thank you.

Jim Rome (79:26)

Check that. Chris Everett, good to have you on the show.

Dabo Swinney (79:28)

You know what? You know, you've been calling me that for about the last five years, about.

Jim Rome (79:32)

Two years, actually, Chris.

Dabo Swinney (79:33)

Well, hey, you know what?

Ed Mylett (79:35)

Let me, let me say one thing. In that game, how many sacks did.

Dabo Swinney (79:37)

I have that we came back and won?

Jim Rome (79:38)

How many sacks did you have a game?

Dabo Swinney (79:40)

How many sacks.

Jim Rome (79:41)

See, but this was back in 1989.

Troy Aikman (79:42)

Oh, yeah, that's.

Jim Rome (79:43)

You may have even been Jim Everett back there, but somewhere along the way, Jim, you ceased being Jim and you became Chris.

Troy Aikman (79:48)

Well, let me tell you a little.

Ed Mylett (79:49)

Secret that, you know, we're sitting here.

Dabo Swinney (79:51)

Right now, and if you guys want.

Ed Mylett (79:53)

To take a station break, you can. But if you call me Chris Everett.

Dabo Swinney (79:56)

To my face one more time.

Jim Rome (79:57)

I already did it twice.

Ed Mylett (79:58)

You better call one more time.

Dabo Swinney (79:59)

We better take a station break.

Jim Rome (80:01)

Well, it's a five minute segment. Our five segment show. We got a long way to go.

Troy Aikman (80:05)

We do.

Jim Rome (80:05)

We got a long way to go. We do. I'll get a couple segments out of here.

Ed Mylett (80:08)

It's good to be here with you, though.

Jim Rome (80:09)

Well, it's good, you know, because you've.

Dabo Swinney (80:10)

Been talking like this behind my back.

Jim Rome (80:12)

For a long time, but now I said it right here.

Ed Mylett (80:14)

Right? Exactly.

Jim Rome (80:15)

We got no problem.

Dabo Swinney (80:16)

I think that you.

Troy Aikman (80:17)

You probably.

Ed Mylett (80:17)

Probably won't say it again.

Jim Rome (80:18)

I bet I do. Okay, Chris, That was a really bad day at work.

Ed Mylett (80:28)

Was that a career threatening type day?

Jim Rome (80:30)

You bet it was. You bet it was. You better was. And people. People to this day say to me, it made you. It made you. I kind of take exception to that. I didn't want to be known for that. Yeah. I did not want to be known for that. I own. Look, I'm accountable. I had a bad day. That was. That was my bad. I've apologized for that a million times. I always will. I did not handle that well, period.

Ed Mylett (80:50)

The backstory is pretty interesting, though, to be honest with you. I mean, he knew what he was getting into. The reason, I think.

Jim Rome (80:55)

I think. Here's the thing, though. Somebody said to me, excuse me. Somebody said, I think he was coming for you. I don't know that he was. I think that he got really upset. And understandably so.

Ed Mylett (81:04)

I think in the moment, of course he got upset.

Troy Aikman (81:06)

Right.

Jim Rome (81:07)

And what's he. You'll find this even more interesting. For years, I tried to do the interview after it happened. I'm like, let's get some closure.

Ed Mylett (81:13)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (81:14)

And not for the wrong reason. Now people want to see it, just to see it. Would you believe to this day we've never spoken?

Troy Aikman (81:20)

Wow.

Jim Rome (81:20)

I tried for years and years and years to do the interview, and he always said no. And I just stopped asking after about 10 years.

Ed Mylett (81:28)

Well, of course, after a decade of asking.

Jim Rome (81:30)

Right.

Ed Mylett (81:30)

Maybe he'll see this and agree to do it. Maybe it would be.

Jim Rome (81:32)

Maybe I don't want to anymore.

Ed Mylett (81:34)

It's a big takeaway. The reason I asked you, I wasn't going to bring the incident up. I was going to see what you answered was. That's the other thing. I kind of want people to get another lesson through you is that that could have been a career altering day for you. It certainly didn't.

Jim Rome (81:46)

It was scary, right?

Ed Mylett (81:47)

It certainly didn't make you. That's not true. What's made you is the prolific culture you've created and your relentless work ethic over time. That's what's made you. Your preparation, the way you interact with the athletes, your ability to articulate. However, it's a great lesson. It's a great lesson because I look at a guy like our mutual buddy. A Rod's a good buddy. And I look at a Rod, you know, three, four years ago, he was a pariah, right? Like, nobody in the world would touch him. And he's remade himself into this. Like, he's the ESPN face of ESPN baseball. He's revered again. Right? And so why that's important is for everybody. A lot of us have this one mistake in our life. It could be a divorce, a bankruptcy, and we shame ourselves the rest of our life. Like, okay, I don't. I can't win again because I made this one particular error in our career. You're proof of that. Whether it was an error or not on air, it was one of the most shocking sports interview moments in the history of sports interview.

Jim Rome (82:39)

I don't want to give myself too much credit. It was one of the most shocking moments on TV ever in a long time.

Ed Mylett (82:43)

Ever.

Jim Rome (82:44)

Ever. I would tell you one more thing, too. I don't know if you know this, but it's a little cheesy, but I think it is apropos. The LA Times did a piece shortly thereafter, and the title of the article was, is this the End of the Roman Empire?

Ed Mylett (82:55)

Whoa.

Jim Rome (82:55)

I put it on my mirror. I looked at it every day for a year. I saw it every morning when I shaved. I sat every morning when I got out. Like, they're speculating that my career is over before it starts. And so it's one thing to pump yourself up with. Don't give in. Don't quit. Yeah, easy to say all that until adversity hits. Adversity hit. And, you know, the world was different then. I mean, there was no social media then, which would have made it tougher. But I'll tell you what, there was. There was Saturday Night Live, Katie Couric talking shit about me. They were killing me on Saturday Night Live. And so people, like now say, yeah, well, that's. That's awesome. And it's not awesome when you're in it and you think that maybe you're not getting contracts renewed. And then all of a sudden, when people don't know you, you're going to restaurants and everybody knows you, and it's for the wrong reason because it was one bad night. And let. Let that be a lesson. You know, one. One bad decision could impact the rest.

Ed Mylett (83:48)

Of your life during those moments. I'm curious about Janet. Yeah, so I've been married once, and she's had my back through a bunch of different ups and downs. You talk about Janet on the show, but I think she's only been on the show, like, one time.

Jim Rome (84:00)

One time.

Ed Mylett (84:00)

Yeah. We both are. Both also have this thing where we're real private with our families. We're doing a lot of posts and pictures and things like that. I'm protective of that, too. But if you don't mind talking about it, because I just think she's been such an important part of your life. How important has Janet been through moments like that in your career? Or are you just like, do you do your thing and she does her thing?

Jim Rome (84:19)

No, no, no. She's definitely right in the middle of that whole thing because we met through the business. The funny thing about Janet, when I met Janet, she was way more successful at this business than I was. She was a vice president of the corporation that owned the mighty 690.

Ed Mylett (84:34)

Okay?

Jim Rome (84:34)

Janet heard me and tried to fire me right away. So Janet's the vice president of Human Resources. And the funny thing about. Because the corporate office was in San Diego, where the station was, but they own several stations nationwide, they all had a vote at the conference table about programming. I always thought that was kind of weird, that. Why is accounting voting on programming? Why is Human Resources voting on programming? Because they could. I guess they did, because I did this differently than anybody else had. They had never heard anything like that before. So Janet grows up in Long Beach. She's a huge Dodger fan. And I get on the radio and I said, let me tell you about Fernando Valenzuela, man. That old man will be on food stamps by the end of the week. And she literally was mortified. This is a churchgoing girl who grew up loving the Dodgers, and she was mortified. She's like, I don't know who the new guy is. I don't know where he came from. I move that we fire him right now.

Ed Mylett (85:25)

Really?

Jim Rome (85:26)

So I married her. Ultimately, that's awesome. But the moral of that story is she was doing way better than me, making a lot more money, way more successful. And she saw me before any of this happened. And so we. I kind of schooled her and my friends and family that when I came up, and people who liked me, loved me, and people who didn't like me, hated my guts and said things that were not nice, in some cases horrible, and didn't know me. And family and friends get really upset. I'm like, listen, this is part of it. This is what we signed up for. So you need to understand, you cannot react to this. You can't fight everybody who says something. Yeah, but they don't know you well. You can't control that.

Ed Mylett (86:05)

Right?

Jim Rome (86:06)

So she knows that. So when. When it hit the fan, she was there. She was Fine.

Ed Mylett (86:11)

That's awesome, man. You've had a great partner all these years, which led you into. I just want to talk about this for a little bit because I think it's a really weird part of your story. Like, somehow this sports guy was in all these other sports, and I knew enough about you. We had no interest in horse business. Business before.

Jim Rome (86:25)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (86:25)

Like, all of a sudden you're like. And by the way, like, anything you've done, like, you didn't just do it a little bit. I mean, eventually you got into, like, you're pretty deep.

Jim Rome (86:34)

Yeah, I was really deep. And I had no interest in that either, so. No interest in that. So there's a guy named Billy Koch, and Billy Koch actually was a college baseball player at Northwestern and a Beverly Hills kid. And he was in this. He had a racing syndicate. So what he would do is he would go out and he'd find people and they'd invest and they'd buy pieces of a horse. And he saw me in Del Mar and said, hey, hey. He knew me. And he's like, you'll love this. You're going to love this. I'm like, no, I won't. No, I won't. I have no interest. I have no interest. Why would I want to do that? I want to go to Del Mar. I want to watch the races. I'll put on a suit, have a few pops, and I'll do that once or twice a summer, and I'm good. He's like, no, no, you'll love it. You'll love, love it. I didn't want to do it. Janet says to me one night, you know, you really should. We should do this. I said, do what? She said, buy a horse. I'm like, why would I do that? You need a hobby. You need a hobby. We bought 10% of a horse. I go to Santa Anita. The horses, Argentinian bred. They bring them in. He runs. And I was naive. I thought, I'm a sports talk show host, man. I know everything. I didn't know that much about horse racing. I really didn't. Running Styles strategies. I buy 10% on the horse. The horse is running dead last. I'm like, I must be the biggest sucker ever. There must be, like, easy mark on my forehead. I'm like, I'm trying to put a stop on the check in the middle of the race. Asshole. The horse comes from dead last to win the race in the most exciting fashion ever. And I've told this story. It's like somebody rolled up behind me and injected Me with equine crack. I look at this guy, I'm like, dude, you got anything else you can sell me? What else do you have for sale? And I couldn't stop. It felt so amazing. So then I'm all in. And some of the best and worst days of my life have been at the track.

Ed Mylett (88:01)

But you went up to like 14 horses or something, right? And then you get to Misdirection, and you're talking about a horse that's like multiple victories at the Breeders Cup.

Troy Aikman (88:09)

So.

Jim Rome (88:10)

Yeah. So the really short version is. So Janet's like, hey, how much money have we lost, by the way, doing this? I'm like, a lot. She's like, maybe we should stop. I'm like, you told me to get a hobby. She goes, I didn't tell you to get one that expensive.

Troy Aikman (88:20)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (88:21)

I said, here's the thing, one more time. There's this horse named Ms. Direction. She's like, jimmy, stop. I'm like, listen to me. This horse won its maiden race by nine and a half lengths. We've never been anywhere near an animal like this. I want to take one more shot. She's like, all right. So that was it. Misdirection literally saved my horse racing life, because up until then, that was the last shot. And then I bought in. They made us the majority owner. We ran in our silks and she won two Breeders cup races against the boys, which was unbelievable. And to this day, I've never experienced anything in business that felt like that first win that she had. It was the most surreal moment of my life that did not involve the things that matter.

Ed Mylett (88:58)

So that was the high. The lowest shared belief, right?

Jim Rome (89:01)

The lowest shared belief.

Ed Mylett (89:02)

Yeah, just tell them about that.

Jim Rome (89:03)

So Shared belief was a. So we sold Misdirection at auction because we wanted to retire her, give her the right life. Share Belief is a horse that we bought that we thought we'd have some fun with. He was a gelding, okay? So you cannot. If they're gelded, they've got no residual value. You cannot breed them. That's why he was for sale. And we bought the horse and the horse was unbelievable. We had no idea. He went from a horse that we thought we'd have fun with to the top ranked thoroughbred in the world. He was the number one ranked horse in the world. He beat California Chrome. He won the award for the. The two year old male of the year. He won the Pacific class in Del Mar, which is the biggest race here, I think the Sanita Handicap. I mean, an unbelievable athlete Ed. Unbelievable. And then he comes down with colic. I get this phone call one morning during my radio show from my race manager, Alex Solis, who says, jim, the big horse has colic. And I said, oh, my God, how bad is that? He goes, they're rushing him to Davis Medical Center. He may not make it. Keep in mind, the horse is. Four horses live to be in their 20s. He was like larger than life. And the horse passed away, you know, and I'm still not over it. Like, it's like anything in life, right? Really bad things happen. You hope to get beyond it, but some things you don't really ever get over. So it's like, also in sports, the lows are much more intense than the highs or high. So as good as it was, that misdirection won the Breeders cup to twice. The intensity of losing, shared belief like that I think will far outweigh everything.

Ed Mylett (90:32)

I can see on your face.

Jim Rome (90:33)

Yeah, it's hard, man.

Ed Mylett (90:34)

Even now.

Jim Rome (90:34)

Yeah. I said to my. I told the story. Maybe you've seen the video. I did, but I said to my 10 year old at the time, Logan was at my office crying. My desk at work. I had this whole thing, man, don't you ever cry at work. Don't cry. I don't care how bad your workday is, you don't cry at work unless you get a phone call with some really bad news. You don't cry at work. And my 10 year old goes, dad, I've never seen you cry. I said, because I don't very much. Man, I love that animal.

Ed Mylett (90:58)

Oh, man, I'm so sorry.

Jim Rome (90:59)

I love that animal.

Ed Mylett (91:00)

But the whole reason you did it, I'm going to get into, like, your mind a little bit, so. Or you, like, be real. I know you've been real, but, like, be real, you needed a hobby. That sounds like something my wife would say. And one of the things that I've always struggled with and I just want people that are like this, maybe you're this way, maybe you're not. I'm not as much as I relate really well with people, I'm not like one of the guys. Do you know what I mean?

Jim Rome (91:23)

I know exactly like my.

Ed Mylett (91:25)

Because I think this is a model or a personality trait that I see in a lot of people that are successful. That surprises people. But, like, my social circle is not as big as most people would think. Like, as many people as you and I both know, like, who I really spend time with is surprising.

Jim Rome (91:39)

You're actually shaking my head because I totally know exactly where you're going with that.

Ed Mylett (91:41)

Yeah. So what is your. What is that like for you? Like, is your social circle really as big as most people with. Think are you. Or like, what are you like socially and what's your kind of. Are you. Are you a dude who's like kind of playing grab ass with dudes all the time, or are you typically more serious?

Jim Rome (91:55)

No, no. I've got like four guys. I got friends, I have associates, but I've got three or four dudes. Like, I don't. I used to be a big Bombay Sapphire guy. So we had a Bombay club because who drinks gin? Only old men, old lawyers, and me. Until I didn't. But I. But I had a crew. I got some guys and. And I don't want the guys. I'm not doing this in any order of importance.

Ed Mylett (92:17)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (92:18)

But my guys are guys like Rob Guthrie, Mike Treason, Matt Coleman. You know, I just have a crew.

Ed Mylett (92:25)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (92:25)

And we used to be almost fanatical. About once a quarter, no matter where we are, we drop everything. We go out and we hit it pretty hard responsibly.

Ed Mylett (92:31)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (92:32)

And it, you know, as you get older, it's tougher because everybody has lives and kids. But no, I'm not. My job was my thing.

Ed Mylett (92:39)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (92:40)

My career was my career and family. Career and family. Career, family and career. Family and career. I didn't need all that other stuff.

Ed Mylett (92:47)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (92:47)

And if I had to blow off some steam, I blow off some steam, then get right back to the grind. So when you say to me that you have a tight knit circle of the people who matter most to you that you want to hang out with, I understand that.

Ed Mylett (92:57)

I really believe what you said. Like, I take to heart that I think you have some unbelievable gifts and talents. But I know from being around you now, like, this man's made it because he's a crazy competitor. He evolves, he works his ass off and he flat out wants it probably more than most people. Right. And I feel like I'm kind of in that boat in my own unique way too. Like, I know I don't have a super high iq. You know, I'm not six foot three. I'm not super gifted in any particular area.

Jim Rome (93:24)

Yeah. But Ed, you can bench the house, though.

Ed Mylett (93:26)

No, I can't bench the house. You know what I put. I had Mike O'Hearn on here. If you know who that is, that dude can bench the house. Like, but comparatively speaking. But I. But I do. Like, I really want to win.

Jim Rome (93:36)

Yeah.

Ed Mylett (93:36)

Like, I really want to be Somebody I connect with athletes.

Jim Rome (93:39)

Why do you think that is? Like, what? Here, here's the thing. I always, always ask guys like this. Nature or nurture? Are you wired for it or are you a product of your culture? Where does that come from?

Ed Mylett (93:49)

What do you think?

Jim Rome (93:50)

For you?

Ed Mylett (93:50)

What do you think? For you?

Jim Rome (93:53)

I think. Okay, for me?

Ed Mylett (93:56)

Yeah. For me, this is the ultimate question of all questions right here.

Jim Rome (94:01)

Because I have an upper middle class upbringing.

Ed Mylett (94:05)

Me too.

Jim Rome (94:05)

Okay. I did not. I did not come up the hard way either. I lived in a gated neighborhood.

Ed Mylett (94:10)

Okay. I didn't quite go there, but same close.

Jim Rome (94:12)

I mean, I wasn't. My parents were not wealthy, but they worked hard and they had a business and they did well, I'll be honest with you, me personally, because even my old man, my dad, he passed away when he was 59. He had leukemia. And this is amazing to me, really. Just sidebar really quickly. He was fine with it. Like, it's a strange thing. Like, he, this Boston guy, he's diagnosed with cancer at 50. And he and my mother don't tell anybody. They don't tell anybody. Yes. Just. Just us, though, my sister and I. And they say to us, we're not telling anybody. I'm like, what? You just told me you have leukemia and you're not telling anybody. He didn't tell his mother. They didn't tell anybody. In business, they're like, this is how we're handling it. If you want to talk about it, we'll talk about it all day, every day, but we're not talking about outside these doors. I thought that was unbelievable. And then. And then when it's. It gets into his brain and it's terminal, he has brain surgery. He's fine. He's fine. He's at peace. He's like, man, I had an amazing life. I've got these incredible kids. He didn't. You know, he's like, I have this. I never thought I'd be good in business. I am. Like, he was fine. He had this peace of mind. But we had this one talk back to your question. He's like, you gotta relax. I'm like, what do you mean I gotta relax? He's like, I don't know where you got your drive from? You didn't get it from me.

Dabo Swinney (95:25)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (95:26)

I'm like, I don't know, dad. You've had a pretty good run. He's like, you didn't get it from me. So to answer your question, where'd it come from? I don't know, man. I kind of Had a chip on my shoulder. Maybe it was because I was a dorky kid.

Ed Mylett (95:35)

Maybe.

Jim Rome (95:35)

I don't know. But I wanted it. Yeah, I wanted it. And I was able to feed it and tap into it. And you still do, though.

Ed Mylett (95:44)

That's the crazy part. You still do. Like, I can feel you. Like, I think you're as hungry like this minute after hall of fame, 30 years, millions of dollars in income, live a great life.

Jim Rome (95:57)

I think you're just part of it is game recognizes game. I think I'm kind of in the element. But no, I mean, I still. It gets me up in the morning still yet. And you got to answer your question now. Where did yours come from?

Ed Mylett (96:07)

I think it's a great question. I think it's probably similar to yours. My dad. Here's what I got from my dad. Maybe you did. I did model, like, a work ethic from my old man, like, and a decency from my parents that they treat people well. There's a. Like, I think I picked up some of that.

Troy Aikman (96:22)

I hope.

Ed Mylett (96:23)

Like, I. But my dad never had ambition. My dad's told me many times I just wanted to work and provide for the family. I wanted a good life. Like, what the hell happened to you? My dad and I have this conversation all the time, I bet. And it sort of shocks him. I don't even think they saw. I think they knew they wanted me to be successful, but I'm not sure. They thought whatever happened, happened. I think that.

Jim Rome (96:43)

So what happened?

Ed Mylett (96:44)

I don't know. I think some of it was that I was an undersized athlete. Stuff like that, too. But again, I think it's probably more nature because I'll just. Four siblings grew up in my household. We're very different people. Same stimulus, same family, same parents. And I'm different.

Jim Rome (96:56)

I'm always fascinated by that.

Ed Mylett (96:58)

I am, too. But I think that the people that have that psycho streak, that have that I want to be somebody thing need to know that it's great. Like, my dad says that to me, too. You need to chill. Like, hey, when's enough enough? And, hey, even this morning, we're talking about some deal I'm doing. He's like, you know, put the pressure off yourself a little bit. Because I think as a parent, you want them to be okay.

Gerard Adams (97:17)

Right?

Ed Mylett (97:17)

I don't know that that's. Maybe it's good that he dials me in once while that someone does that, but I wouldn't recommend that to somebody. Like, if I'm not in pursuit of something, I'm miserable I tried for, like, a half a year to, like, go golf and sit on the beach, and I just. It's not what makes me happy.

Jim Rome (97:32)

Yeah, but you enjoy this, though, right?

Ed Mylett (97:33)

I do.

Jim Rome (97:34)

I think it'd be a real mistake to hit it, and it took me a long time to figure this out. And then you have all these things you work so hard for, but you just keep grinding and grinding and grinding, and then it got. It got away. It didn't take that minute.

Ed Mylett (97:47)

Yeah.

Jim Rome (97:47)

I'm not saying dial it down. I'm not saying downshift. I'm saying this is the best view I've ever seen. Hopefully you get your ass out on that deck and you have. You have some of that tequila once in a while. I mean, you have to do it.

Troy Aikman (97:58)

Right.

Ed Mylett (97:58)

We both had a little before we started today.

Jim Rome (98:00)

I didn't. Well, maybe a little.

Ed Mylett (98:01)

You had a sip. But I had a lot. I had a little bit. I do do that. I think that's one of the things that. Maybe you're right. Maybe one of the things. You're pointing out something out to me. Maybe. Maybe I need to show that side of me a little bit more that people go, I want to be like that. Like, I want to have some fun doing it, too.

Jim Rome (98:15)

Or not even show yourself. Just do it.

Ed Mylett (98:16)

Yeah, do it.

Jim Rome (98:17)

Just do it, man. Just do it. Like, I'm not saying don't ever, ever compromise who you are and what you do, because you're right. What are you. You're not going to be happy.

Ed Mylett (98:24)

Yeah.

Dabo Swinney (98:24)

You're not going to be.

Jim Rome (98:25)

What are you going to do? Not. Not get up in the morning and work out? Not get up and go to work.

Ed Mylett (98:28)

Right.

Jim Rome (98:29)

You know, one day, maybe.