B (3:06)

Sorry.

C (3:07)

No, it's awesome, man. So let me ask you. Let's just. Let's just start there. Going to let this thing flow. By the way, I relate to that set point being kind of. I don't know if I'd call mine depressed. I'd call it kind of melancholy.

B (3:20)

Yeah.

C (3:20)

You know what I mean? I relate to that very much, and I think a lot of people do. So is there some way you would say initially that there was a catalyst to change that? Did you hit a bottom of some type or. And what did you do to begin the journey upwards?

B (3:34)

Yeah, man. Like, I had accomplished all these things. I had walked across America. I climbed the tallest mountain in the world, Everest. I had millions of dollars, millions of followers. Everything that a perfect life was supposed to be on the outside, even. Listen to this. I even had an Instagram account full of followers that I had convinced I was inspiring. Right. I was already teaching, selling people to dream that I got it figured out. And then I remember I was at my home in Michigan, and it just was like, the juice ain't here. I am. And I remember this year, I was eating clean. I was doing the ice bath I was in, actually. My body looked beautiful. But I kept getting sick and I kept getting depressed, and I couldn't figure out why. Like, what. What is. What is missing here? I got everything on the external, including that. Supposed to be health, right? I'm doing all the right stuff and what is not working, but something was not working and everything was irritating me. I got this lakefront home. I'd get out of the ice bath and I'd look in the reflection on the sliding door and, like, if my abs didn't look just perfect, was upset with myself, something's wrong. I'd go in that sliding door and my mom was there because I knew what a good person was supposed to act like a good person, that they're kind to their mother. So I'd invited my mom up to stay at the house for a week, but she was putting some dishes away, and the sound of the dishes clanging against each other, it was like sandpaper grading against my, my very being. Like everything irritated me. And then I remember I went downstairs and I, I checked my phone and I had a message from one of my managers at the time. And it was a screenshot. And he goes, I just need to know if this is true. And it was a screenshot of, from Instagram. And someone said a singer who walked across America got my friend pregnant and abandoned the child. And I said I knew I didn't abandon the child because I would never do that. But the way I was living my life, I wasn't sure that I hadn't had a child. And maybe the person just never told me because I was being sloppy with my energy and I was afraid of intimacy. So I would get in weird relationships, one night, stands on the road, things like this. And I wasn't sure. I'm like, dude, do I have a kid out there? And the stress of all these things start add on to one thing after another. And I, I called my friend Doug and I go, hey, man, like, I need help. I, I, I either need like a high level therapist because, you know, I've, I have a freaking ego right at the time. Like, I'm special. So I need like some special therapist who like, knows about famous people, or I need some high level life coach, you know, that gets it. So Doug, he goes, well, you could just talk to me. I said, with all due respect, he's one of my best friends. I go, you're about to have a child. And I got, I got a lot of problems. If I had just one, come on, I'd ask you for help. But these things are stacking. And before I would get over the one, another one was hitting and I was overwhelmed. And I think a lot of people know that feeling, like I'm just underwater with problems and.

C (7:15)

Great description.

B (7:17)

And so he said, okay. And a few days passed, and then he forwarded me a voice note. And the voice note was from Tony Robbins. And Tony said, mike, Doug shared a little bit with me about your story, and I'd be honored if you came to my event date with Destiny as my guest in December. And it was like, you know, August. I was like, what the hell do I do? Till then, I almost didn't go like, man, it's kind of far. But that's my whole life was like, just kind of negative. I'd look for the negative in it. So anyways, Doug said, you gotta go, man. So in December came around. I, I, I went to the conference and I was a little skeptical at first. I was sick again. And I was like, dude, should even, like, do this. And there came a moment, I think it was the third day of the conference, and Tony's leading some, some exercise by the. Tony changed my life.

C (8:20)

Love, Tony.

B (8:20)

He, he's leading some exercise, and he didn't teach this. He was doing some kind of meditation thing, like a visualization. And he didn't say this in the, in the activation, but it's like God just spoke to me in the moment. It, it just landed in my nervous system in a way I knew was true. It was like, you are getting sick, you are getting depressed, because you are avoiding the fact that, that you are scared to death of relationships. You're scared of intimacy. And until you address that and face that fear, life. Hey, life. I'm only giving you pain to wake you up because I want you to go this way so you can have what you actually deserve, what you're actually here for. You got to stop lying to yourself. Because I had this whole story, you know, if, if love happens, great, but I'm not really looking for it. The truth, and I believed myself. But the truth underneath all that was I, I really, they wanted to have love. I really wanted to have a family. I was, I'm here to have a family. You know, we, we as men, we're here to provide, we're here to protect. Right? It's part of our nature. And so I was letting this part of my nature die underneath all these lies I was telling myself and life told me in that moment. Or, you know, I call it God. I believe in God. But for some people, maybe they don't like that word. The word doesn't matter, you know, whether you call it life with a capital L. I think God and life are in many ways synonymous. I think God, life, love may be all one thing. It's above my pay grade. But whatever it is, it gave me the message. Clear. Face the fear, or we're going to give you louder warning signals. The pain is going to get worse until you wake up. So I had a choice, a crossroads. It was like, I'm either going to change my emotional set point, I'm going to stop lying to myself, which I had these stories. I'm an avoidant person. Relationships are hard. You know, my relationships don't work out. Give up all these stories rooted in the past, rooted in fear and step into who I really am, which is a man, a leader. And it's one or the other, you're going to go that way. And I knew where that was going to end if I, if I kept going the way I was. I was going to be a dude with, you know, six pack abs and millions of dollars at his mans alone. 60 years old and people knock on the door, mike, how you doing? I got a big fake smile on my face. I'm doing good. But inside I'm a, I'm a lonely man. That's where my life was headed.

C (10:54)

My gosh, bro.

B (10:54)

And, and or is face the fear. And it's a whole bunch of expansion, growth, freedom, beauty, joy, faith, love. Some pain also. Right. There's pain on the journey, but way less suffering. Right. And so that was it. That was the turning point. And I have not looked back. It's been I think three plus years since that moment. And I cured my own depression. Wow. I want to ask you.

C (11:27)

That was. Whoa, here we go. So I want to ask you about that first off, this story thing. Everybody is real. This story you tell yourself about yourself and your life. You're doing everything in your personal power you possibly can to quote Tony. Personal power to confirm the story and make it true.

B (11:46)

Amen.

C (11:46)

As you validate it over and over and over again to find more proof. That's your reticular activating system in your brain. It's scanning your environment to find more and more proof that what you're saying about you is true. That's why that old adage of if you believe it, it's true actually comes to fruition. But I want to go back a second and we'll talk about what you did to shift. But before we do it, I want to ask you something. And maybe you haven't considered this, maybe you have, but I too relate to that. I had a story one time. I was building my first like big home. It's just a great blessing. I had financial resources for the first time building this mansion. It's just a stressful day. I was mad at the contractor. We had just lost a business deal and I'll never forget it. I walk in the living room of this house that's being built and I'm just furious. Right. And if the quality of your life is the quality of your emotions. I was losing big time. And in the kitchen, building my kitchen were these about six men. They had mariachi music playing, they were dancing, they were working, they were doing work. They Were great at that. They were proud of and they were joyous and blissful and passionate. And I remember standing there like an idiot in the middle of this house under construction going, they're winning in life and I'm losing. But on Instagram, I'm the dude with the mansion, but I'm the dude living in these emotions of stress, fear, anxiety, worry. These men live in bliss. And I remember going, you better change something right here. And in my case, this is what I want to ask you about. I want to meet you in the middle here. I had to try to figure out why I was this way first. And maybe that's not relevant, maybe you just decide to change. But in my case, I realized something about me since I was a little boy, and I think a lot of people do this. I confused significance or recognition with love. Meaning when I, when I was a little boy, if I brought home an A or I hit a home run or I had big muscles, when I got older, I got what felt like love. It's like superficial love acknowledgment. And so in my little brains, significance and recognition was love. Except it's not. They're two totally different things. So I was great at significance, terrible at feeling loved or giving love. Do you relate to that at all? Let me share something with you guys, and I don't say this lightly. Since using Rose nutrition liposomal NAD plus, no joke, I feel incredible. And I don't say that about all the supplements that I take. When you're running companies like I do, like many of you do, leading teams, making high stakes decisions every day, you can't afford brain fog, you can't afford low drive, and you sure can't afford inconsistent energy. Your mind and your body are assets and you got to protect them. And that's where NAD comes in. It's functional, it's foundational, and it's found in every single cell of your body. It supports cellular energy, brain function, recovery, and the reality is, as we age, those levels decline. I've tried all these different approaches, including clinical ones. What I love about Rose liposomal NAD is it's simple, consistent and it's designed to absorb, actually help you. It's third party tested and I take it every day without interrupting my life. The level of clean energy, focus and sharpness I feel is on a totally different level. So go to ro nutrition.com and use code mylet for 20 off site wide. So, you know, we talk a lot on the show, often about health and energy, vitality, strength, wellness, you know, what it comes down to more than anything I found out after about a thousand interviews. Food like what you're putting in your body, you cannot out train a bad diet. What it really comes down to is what you're eating. And you know what? We all want to eat home cooked food. That's why I love hellofresh and it's delicious food. Like I, I've never had any more healthy food in my life that tastes this good. They got 35 high quality protein, different meals. You got G DLP1 friendly ones, you got Mediterranean. They got all wholesome ingredients, none of the bad stuff that you put in food. But the other thing that I like about them is, you know what, you can get seafood on there now for no upcharge. There's three times the amount of seafood on there. My favorite, by the way, is the ribeye. So go to hellofresh.com mylet10fm to get 10 free meals plus a free Zwilling knife which is $144 value on your third box offer valid while supplies last free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by planet.

B (15:58)

Yeah, of course. Organize your first two and a half, maybe three decades of my life around. You know, why do you think us, you know, artists become artists? You know, it's like we want that hit of significance from the audience. We, we have often some psychological flaw that we haven't cleaned up yet and we want to manipulate the audience to giving that fake love or the attention, that significance so we don't have to look at that thing. And so that's unfortunately a large percentage of the artists we have. They don't feel the love, the real love. And so they're trying to outsource it, crowdsource it. Right? And I, I'm not saying that with judgment because I did it for years and sometimes, to be honest, it'll try to rear its head to the street. And I say, hey, you know, I love you, but you're not, you don't get to drive the car anymore. You know, and so I talk about the three stages of artistry and their relationship with their fans. And it probably applies to influencers, podcasters, things too. But, you know, I come from the music world, so I see the first stage is puppy love. You start to get some recognition and you go, wow, like, this is incredible. And what could ever go wrong with this? Like, I actually, maybe I don't even need to have a wife or girlfriend because I get all this, like, I feel so filled up from these strangers who all see the essence of how great I am. And if you've done great work, that's true. There's only seeing your essence and not all your, you know, your, your flaws. And so there's some, there's something to that because you're presenting the, the, the jewel inside yourself in your art, and a bunch of people are relating to that and you're getting this attention back and acknowledgement. So that stage one is puppy love. Stage two, I call disillusionment. Because something happens where you go, dude, some of those people, they don't like me. They're not paying attention anymore. There could be a dip in popularity and scope. Wow, this changes. Or some people flip and they go from liking you to hating you. Or some people just come out of nowhere and they, they're hating you. So this is. Man, I thought I had this security from this, this significance, but now it's gone. And that's painful. That's why I call it disillusionment. Now a lot of people get stuck there and they get in this love, hate relationship with their audience. But there's a third level, a third stage in that service. It's going, okay. Once I actually address the thing that you just got clear on. You addressed it, hey, this came from when I was a child. And, you know, I'm going to stop. I'm gonna stop living under that programming because it's just programming that I've. That I've operated under for years. And we can change any habit. We can change any. It's one of the things I love about Tony, because you don't have a disease. Depression was a disease I had. It's not something I had, it's something I did. Yeah. And so you get clear on in stage three, you get clear on, okay, what, what are these flaws or these pain points that maybe come from childhood? And sometimes, and they even come from before childhood. Sometimes they. Your mom's childhood. I mean, I know for sure there's some, some stuff that I picked up from my mom. And when I was in my early 20s, I was kind of like upset with her about it. But then when I learned more about her, I said, you got it from your mom. And then it probably, you know, went on from there. So sometimes it's not even us, but it's up to us to, to end the cycle. So you get clear on, okay, what are my pain points? What are these old stories? What is the new ones I'm going to tell and where am I going to start? Real relationships with real love? And then I'm going to go back to my audience. I'm actually going to serve them. It's not about manipulating them anymore to get this hit of significance. It becomes about, what can I give? And it can become one of the great joys of your life. And it doesn't replace a primary relationship or your family, but it's a place for you to pour love out and contribute.

C (20:35)

So true, brother. By the way, I don't think. I think you could replace artist with human. I think most humans are figuring, well, if I get enough money or I get a bigger house or I got the right shoes or, you know, people look up to me, I'm going to feel different about me. This thing you just said on Significance, I can tell you an inside thing. It's interesting. Rob Dyrdek is a good friend. He's been on the show a couple of times, and we had this running thing, because this is a topic, once you have a breakthrough in your life that you really discuss with one another. And so I remember telling him, I go, man, I'm not into significance anymore. Recognition. He's like, me either. Like, almost like we were above it, right? And so we went, like, six months bantering back and forth about how evolved we had both become, you know, and we're at a Rams game together, our wives were sitting in between us, and I can't hear him. And he's like, hey, hey. And I'm, you know. I go, what?

B (21:23)

He goes.

C (21:23)

And finally, I can't hear him. I go, what do you say? He goes, I'm a liar. And I go, what are you talking about? He goes, let's go get a hot dog and I'll tell you. And we walk up, he goes, bro, I still love significance and recognition. I go, good, dude, I'm so sick of lying about this. So do I. Right? But he said something, what you just said, he said, but I get it now by contributing. So I feel significant when I'm giving. That's the difference, bro. And so I think I get it in a healthy way now.

B (21:51)

That's it.

C (21:51)

And he goes, and that contribution is because I love people. And so it's just a subtle loop that changes. But this is like one of the more profound conversations we've had on the show, because I think this is just humans. I don't think it's just singing or just speaking on stage like I do. I think it's human nature to be this way. So let me ask you. I mean, this is a broad question, but if someone was Listening this going, bro, I'm with you. And I live kind of in a lower state of being a lot where I'm down or melancholy or worried or anxiety or all the way to depression like you've described. And they said to me, hey, brother, like, what, what, what do I do? What do I do? What would you say to that person?

B (22:31)

I would ask them four questions, but they can answer the questions themselves, you know, so they. I would check and challenge or invite that person to ask themselves these four questions. The first comes from my buddy, Chris Work. Chris Work wrote the book Crispy Cancer. It's an incredible book. He cured himself of cancer without Western medicine, and he's helped thousands of others to, to repeat this miracle. And he credits his entire journey of healing back to, I think he was getting a massage or a Reiki or someone. He went to get some bodywork done, and the healer asked him this question. They go, before we start this journey, I gotta know, do you want to live? Yes or no? And most of us have never really asked that question seriously to each, to ourselves, because, you know, these things build up. You talked about them early, these micro resentments. There's a little bit of feeling a lot of us have of, hey, you know, I'll do this, but I don't really want to. I'm here, but I should be doing something else. And it's so. It's so ubiquitous in a lot of our experience of life that it's just kind of running in the background. A lot of us think that it's. It's actually part of life. It's not part of life. It's an impediment of life. And so most people answer that question, yes, but they realize, like, there's something sort of not as good as they. They think it should be. And that, that part. I'll go on a small side tangent and I get back to question two. That part of oneself that goes, hey, I. I think. I think my life is supposed to feel better than it does. Where does that come from? Because that's really interesting. A lot of us have this idea that life should feel better than it does and, and. But better in a way that maybe we've never even experienced. So how is the mind telling us about some experience that we don't know anything about? Right. Like, so I have a theory. I don't know if it's right, but I think it's right. And I think it comes from beyond the mind. I think that feeling is true. I think that's our soul or if you don't like that word, your higher self or like your deeper self going, hey, there's more for you here. And the pain you feel is actually the chasm between where you are and where on some level, you know, life should be. Not externally, but the feeling, the experience of life. Right. It's like when you see those guys working on the house. The pain isn't just that you felt anger that day, because we all feel anger sometimes. The pain is something's recognizing there's a chasm here. And the amount. The further, the wider the chasm, the more the pain. So. Oh, I think that part of ourselves is correct. And it's a larger part of ourselves calling us to grow, calling us to become more. So that's. That's the end of the tangent. Now, what's the second question? The first question was, do you want to live? Yes or no? The second question is, if. Yes, and most people say yes, why? Why? And this question, it comes from Viktor Frankl. Chris asked it also. But it's man's search for meaning, you know, and would Nietzsche say, he who has a why can endure almost any circumstance, any how, any condition, can overcome anything. And all of us have a purpose of being here, but not all of us have uncovered it yet. And by the way, it changes. Your purpose when you're 15 is not the same as your purpose when you're 30. And it might change week to week. And Viktor Frankl talks about that in the book. He goes, stop measuring life and saying life isn't meeting my expectations and start asking, what does life expect of me?

C (26:59)

Oh, wow.

B (27:00)

What does life expect to me in this moment? And the purpose, your purpose of life might not be some overarching thing, some crazy. It might just be to hold that old lady's hand, to look at that child, and it might be something very immediate. Yeah. So that's the second question. And the third question come. My buddy. My buddy, Elliot Bisnow. So it comes with a story. Am I rambling too long?

C (27:32)

Not in the least.

B (27:33)

Okay. The third question is. Came from Elliot. I was at a point, another low point in my life. This low point came before the one before. There's a bunch of low points. Right. And so I'd reached this point in my life where my father had just passed away. A couple of my. My peers that I worked with in the music industry, Avicii and Mac Miller, they had just died. And there was this feeling like exactly what I just referred to, like there's something inside me that I'm not Expressing like there's some difference between what I have to give and what I'm actually giving. And, and it doesn't feel good. It feels like I'm wasting life. And I got just real down, real down. And I, I grew a big beard at the time. I just turned 30. And I remember I had a new album coming out. And you know, at that, it was about maybe seven, eight years ago at that time, you would still go to a lot of radio stations and you basically schmooze, you know, shake these guys hand, make, make, you know, pretend like you're their best friend. And so then they put your song on the radio and they can get like these 12 year olds addicted to your song. And that's supposed to be success. And I'm just like telling Elliot, we were, we were in Alaska on a camping trip and I'm like, dude, I'm done. Like, I don't, I'm 30.

C (29:07)

I'm.

B (29:08)

What am I doing? I don't want to play this game anymore. Like, I'm, I'm through. I don't want to do it. And, and when I say I'm done, I'm like, I was really there, Ed. Like, I had thoughts of like, I should kill myself.

C (29:24)

Whoa.

B (29:25)

Like, like I, I. There's something about how I'm showing up in the world that feels like it's taking away from the world, not adding to it. And so I said to Elliot, I go, dude, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm done. He looks at me, and by the way, I think friendship is seeing another's potential so clearly that they can see it themselves. So that's Elliot. He's incredible. And my, like, depressing words just kind of like bounce off him as if he's got a force field. And he looks at me and he goes, because I just told him, I don't want to do it. I don't want all this stuff. And he goes, what do you want? Yep. I never, I never asked that question. I'm sitting here bouncing around my life making lists and lists of what I don't want. And if any of your listeners, like, if your mind is like mine, by the way, you're not your mind, but if your mind is like mine, it creates lists of things that happened in the past you didn't want. It's got a list of things right now that are happening you don't want. And it even has a giant list of things that haven't happened yet, but if they did, you sure as heck wouldn't want those too. So no wonder, no wonder I was miserable. I sat there, I thought, what do I want? What a question. And I couldn't believe the words that came out of my mouth. They were, I want to walk across America. Well, I almost couldn't believe I said it.

C (31:02)

Had you ever thought that before?

B (31:04)

I had heard about a guy who had done it five years ago, and I remember I thought that was. That's pretty freaking cool, you know. And then I just threw on the back burner, like it. I thought, maybe I'll do it one day. But then I got back to businesses usual. Make album, going tour, make album going tour. Make album going tour. And then in that moment, he asked what I wanted. And that was the answer. It came from beyond my mind, like it just. I almost heard the words come out of my mouth, like as if someone else said it. I was surprised. And I. And I. I reeled back because when I heard the words come out, I went, My mind came back in. I said to Elliot, I said, but, you know, I told my manager about this once, and he said it was a crazy idea. Elliot goes, that's great news.

C (31:56)

I like Elliot.

B (31:57)

I like him too. I said, what do you mean it's great news? He goes, that your manager said it's a crazy idea. I said, what do you mean? He goes, you got to understand, man, not all crazy ideas are great, but all great ideas are crazy.

C (32:13)

Oh, so good.

B (32:15)

And he goes, so your manager thing is crazy is a great sign. He goes, and I think you walking across America is a great idea. So I eventually did that walk and it changed my life. It didn't cure me in my depression, but it gave me some, some amazing tools and eventually put me on the path that got me to where I did. So that's question number three. And

C (32:43)

I'm stealing that.

B (32:44)

Steal it because I steal from him all the time, by the way. I asked him, I go later, you know, because it was such a deep moment. I said, because he's one of my best friends. So I go, dude, did you make that up? He goes, what did not. Crazy idea. He goes, I don't know. Probably he didn't even know. So maybe he got it from someplace else. But I. I think he did.

C (33:08)

I think sharing to the world for sure.

B (33:10)

I think he channeled bit. But the last question is, is sort of just an expansion on that, which is, you know, what really would make life worth living. So I would start there, you know, answer these four questions and, and get a little momentum, focusing on What I do want, you know what I do want, by the way, it's best way to give someone feedback, right? Don't tell them all the things that they just did that piss you off. Ask them to do what you want them to do. Hey, hey, this. This would really make a difference for me. It would light me up if you did. X, Y or Z works. So life is rigged in a way where. Where we get what we focus on. So life is rigged in such a way where when you focus on what's wrong, you notice more of what's wrong. You get more of what's wrong when you focus on what you want, right? And Jesus said, pray as if you've already received it, right? I think that's true, right? We got all this new age stuff came out about law of attraction, right? And it's all true, but Jesus was talking about it 2000 years ago. Pray as if you've already received it, right? It didn't come from the secret. And I love the secret, right? But this concept has been around for a long time. And it's true. We get what we focus on. And so you got to get clear on what you want. You got to get clear on, do you want to live? You got to get clear on what's your purpose, what's your why? Because without a why, dude, I don't care. You can have the craziest life. It'll turn to mush, it'll turn to drudgery. If you don't know what that why is, you got to get clear on what you do want and what would make life really worth living.

C (34:54)

So you know how when you're doing something that's good for you and then you stop doing it, all of a sudden you feel, what the heck changed? So here's what happened to me. I've been feeling great for like a year and a half. It's because I've been on IM8. Then we moved to our place in Maine and I didn't bring my supplement with me. So if you've been looking for something easy to stick with that actually makes you feel better, this might be it for me. It absolutely is something I rely on and I noticed when I missed a few days. So give your body what it deserves with IMA. Go to im8health.comed and use code ED for a free welcome kit. Five free travel sachets plus 10 off your order. So seriously, this is one of those offers you're going to wish you jumped on sooner. That's IM8.com ED and use code ED for a free welcome kit. Five free travel sachets plus 10% off your order at imaidhealth.com ED code ED. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. So I just did this retreat at my house for four days where I had four different groups come in. But one of the things I kept hearing at the retreat was hey man, where'd you get that shirt? And I'm like missing in Maine. And I got to tell you, picture anything. You want to wear your go to shirt. You want to feel sharp, look sharp, dress sharp and you want to do it affordably. When you put their clothes on, you feel like a million bucks and you act like a million bucks. They're also wrinkle resistant. So when you travel or you pull them out of the washing machine, they're ready to go. You don't have to iron over dry clean. Mizzen and Maine is a veteran led organization and proudly give back to veteran based causes. Right now Mizzen and Main is offering our listeners 20% off your first purchase and mizzeninmain.com promo code mylet20 that's mizzen spelled M I Z Z E N and main M A I N.com promo code mylet20 for 20% off mizzeninmain.com Promo mylet20 and if you'd rather shop in person, you can find Mizzen and Main stores in select states. This is a master class, brother. I didn't know we're going to go this deep.

B (36:58)

Come on.

C (36:59)

Thing I would add, I just want to keep rifting and I want you to be doing the teaching here today. But you know everybody, this is what we're really talking about is beginning to live your life with some intention. Auditing where you're at. Is this still my dream? Is this still what I want? Is this what I wanted when I was 15 but now I'm 30. That's not what I want anymore. Right? It's okay to audit your life and audit and ask yourself these questions because that's a life that's lived with intention. That's a life when you get to the end of it, you go, okay, I gave it everything I had and, and I maxed out my life. But one where you just live unconsciously with all of your patterns running all of the time. It's just like a book that's the same chapter on every the same page. Same chapter every, every Time you turn the page, it's the same experience. So if you want a different experience, you've got to ask different questions. And one thing Tony does talk about that I do as well, is the quality of your life is often the quality of your emotions. But a lot of times your emotions come from the questions you're asking yourself.

B (37:55)

Huge.

C (37:58)

You said something really profound earlier that was like of a million profound things. And I'll mess up how you said it. So explain. You said you're not your thoughts or you're not always what's going on in your mind. You said something like that. What did you mean by that?

B (38:11)

That? Yeah, absolutely. I mean this, this machine in our brains that's just saying words, saying thoughts. It's not who you are. Some very small part of your being as, as, as a soul, you know, was it Chardin said we're not human beings having a spiritual experience for spiritual beings having a human experience. So the mind, right, was evolved to keep us safe. It's a scanning device often for what's wrong. Because, you know, our ancestors, if you believe in evolution, the ones that scanned for what was wrong, that noticed all this little sound or that over, they were paranoid. They survived because they noticed. They noticed the potential danger when it occurred. And so all of us have what's called a negativity bias built in, meaning we tend to focus more on what's wrong because this mind thing is here to keep us alive. It's not here to make us happy. It's not designed to. So if you live your whole life in your mind, you're not going to be fulfilled because your soul is way bigger than, than the mind. And so I'm a big meditator. I also love, you know, as much as Tony, equally in a different way, Eckhart Tolle, who teaches we're not our mind. And I don't know about you, but we talked about earlier. You know, this thing is always saying what you don't want, but it's just always saying stuff all day long. And some of the stuff it says is great, and some of the stuff it says is really stupid. And most of what it says is very repetitive. If you ever take a day, you know, a lot of people, I've had this blessed life with a lot of freedom. So I've been able to do weird experiments. So, like, I've gone to a retreat center for a total of two months of my life where they put you, put you in a little cabin and they just leave you there. And once a week they drop food off in the bear box. So you're take, you're taking care of the woods already chopped. So you just sit there and you meditate. And, and when I watched my mind just sitting there for hours a day, seven hours, it's like, hey, this thing, it's often pretty negative. Not always. And it's super repetitive.

C (40:51)

Yes.

B (40:51)

If you ever take a day, if you ever take a day, and I know not everyone has this luxury, but even if you take two hours and you just sit down without your phone and you just observe the thoughts in your head, I forget who had the quote. All of humanity's problems stem from the fact that a man and woman too is the olden days, right. Is that we cannot sit quietly alone in a room. So if you ever take just two hours and just watch the thoughts you have, you'll be amazed. First of all, you'll forget you're doing it almost immediately and you'll get carried away with your thoughts. But then after a while you notice it keeps thinking the same thing. And it's like, so our culture is almost a monument to rationality, to the thinking mind, right. We have, for better or worse, gotten away from the churches, the synagogues, the mosque, and we worship more the university, the scientists. Right. And science is amazing, right. It makes all of our lives great and comfortable, but it's not going to make you fulfilled. So you are not your mind. I'm not. My mind is not his mind. We are the consciousness. I'm the consciousness that gets to move Mike Posner around. I'm not even Mike Posner. Right. That's like, I believe a costume that I'm wearing this go around. And the more we can identify with the part of ourselves is actually beyond language, beyond words. You can just feel it. And in moments of quiet. And everyone's had these moments. Virginia Wolf call these moments of being right. Everyone's had a moment where it just made sense. The mind actually stopped. It was, it was pure. That's you. That's the real you. Right?

C (42:55)

Tell you, I can just tell you this idea. I just want to say this to us. I want to acknowledge you just for a second. You. You are making a difference. This is a real contribution. I just want you to know, like, legitimately, like, this is extraordinary what you're sharing and that's worth acknowledging in you. Like God's really using you, Mike. I mean, truly, truly. And you know, everyone, what Mike was saying earlier about your brain and you know, these repetitive thoughts, your mind is always trying to move towards what it's most familiar with. And so if it's familiar with these ruminations of what you're worried about and afraid of or not liking or not going, well, you're going to get more of it, because your brain's designed to conserve energy. It's lazy. And so that's why a life that's not evaluated is an unlived life. And so what we're really talking about here is just the gift of today, because you and I are both blessed. We could go somewhere for a week. Some people listen is going, I got three kids I got to pick up from school. I got to do homework, I got to take them to soccer. I got to get back to work. But here's the thing. You have to give yourself those couple hours once a week somewhere to just sit with yourself, sit with God and just be with you. And if you can't do that, you have to ask yourself, why do I not enjoy my own company? Why do I need other people around me all the time? That's worth at least asking why. And then I think it's building your own recipe that causes change in you. Don't want to ask you about this, and maybe it's not one of the formulas, but as I read about you, and I've known about you, obviously, for a long time, but it's not normal resume, bro. I mean, let's just be honest. I mean, I haven't climbed Mount Everest. I haven't walked across the country. I haven't done the Continental Divide. I almost haven't died of a rattlesnake bite. I don't have Grammy nominations. I'm just a dude with a flag behind him doing a podcast. Right. That's all I am, but. So I don't relate to all of that. Having said all of that, though, humans develop sort of recipes to their. Their wellness, their bliss. If you look at your life, it looks to me like challenging yourself to do something is one of those recipes. Like you, it appears as if part of you living your life is a challenge that then you go pursue and see if you can expand your being relative to the level of that challenges. I always say I'm addicted to the expansion of my being. Right. Thank you. Is part of your formula from time to time, coming up with a challenge for yourself to see what you're capable of. Or is that something in the past?

B (45:28)

It's evolved. It's evolved, but it's definitely part of it. Right? And life will give you these challenges anyways. Right. So it's like I like to put challenges in my life, so I'm inviting in, they grow. I like to set a goal sometimes where I go, hey, the version of me setting this goal cannot do this. I actually have to become some version of myself that I'm not now in order to get this done. So I like a goal like that. In the past, they've been some physical challenges, some expeditions, things like that. But I'll be honest with you, Ed, because I. I, you know, was. It was an army of one for so many years. The challenge, now that you know and I have somebody, you know, I still run the ultras and stuff right here. There, right? It's important for me to keep that sort of warrior part of life. But the number one challenge, right, I want to. I want to be humble today, right? Because it's like, I receive what you said. I know God. When I'm at my best, God is working through me, right? And not all the time, because sometime my brain gets in the way. But my challenge now is I'm building a family. And some of the things that I'm teaching today, dude, like, when I'm with my fiance, who's the most wonderful woman in the world, I sometimes get angry, right? I'm like, oh, where did that come from? Oh, that's the part I need to work on now, right? That. This is, like, this is life pointing me in the direction, what I need to work on. And so for me, when I said it evolves, it's less about going and do something. Doing something really hard with my body, although that does. That does. Do you know, it's a certain flavor of the expansion. But having done a bunch of those, the one that's more challenging for me is. Is being less selfish. Being in a family unit, putting others before myself doesn't come naturally to me because I've been. I've been doing the Mike Posner thing for a lot of years, and so that's where the. The juice of my life is now. It's the most challenging part of my life now because I need to grow the most to have the. The family that I. That I want, that I will have. So there's some pain in that for me, and I welcome it. And so the other things have been training, and the other thing about. There's been a lot of external achievements in my life. And like I said, part of that was by design. I wanted to become somebody I was proud of. Part of that was I wanted to, you know, get attention. I wanted to be able to go in the Podcast and have my. Like, oh, he's the most interesting. Right? So part of it was not good motor. It was significance. And part of it, I think, is grace. I think that, listen, I want to share light with the world. And for some people, they'll listen to me versus someone else because I got all these things.

C (48:42)

That's right.

B (48:43)

And I got to report back, hey, I was still at that Michigan house, depressed. I was still in Alaska with Elliot, thinking maybe I should kill myself. And. And so maybe, I think so. God gave me all those blessings, and then he gave me the pain with it so I could teach from a place, not. Not from. From having read it in a book, but from having lived it. Hey, like, I got the external stuff, but I wasn't winning the internal game. And you want to be there, so let me help you in the internal game. And you can win the external game, too. There's a lot. He has a lot of teachers on that. Right. And you can have both, but.

C (49:24)

Amen, I agree with you. Listen, some of us have just chosen our giftedness, if we're great at it, grabs attention. My sister, I think, is the greatest school teacher. She's actually an assistant principal now. Her gift is to work with children. She's expressing her gift and pushing the expansion of her being daily. She's not going to get lots of recognition for that gift. She'll get it when she gets to heaven. Right. So many of you, your recognition won't be here. It's okay to go chase money. There's nothing wrong with that. There's no. They don't want to have a big house. That's okay. It's just what we're both telling you. Nothing's worse than a couple rich people telling you it's not worth getting rich. That's not right. It's certainly better probably to have financial means than not. Something's a goal of yours, and you and God work together to make it real. That's wonderful. But when it becomes your identity, you will be empty. And so that's the difference. I'm just curious. I'm watching you.

B (50:22)

Well said. Well said.

C (50:23)

Thank you. Well, you're in. You embody it. I said it. So there's a difference.

B (50:28)

Some days I want to ask you

C (50:30)

if I'd have met you at 30. He's 37. When we're recording this, you have a certain. And everyone's hearing it. There's a. There's a spirit about you that's. I'd call it wise, like an old soul, but very Gentle. There's a, There's a peaceful spirit about you. Had I met you seven years ago with that same spirit, have been present, or have you sort of. Or has that changed in you? In other words, externally, are you different also in the way that you communicate? You vibrate, you know, you go about your life? Has there been a difference in that, or did you always have a little of that?

B (51:07)

I think there's a huge difference. I mean, I feel way different. My, my frequency, like we talked about, my set point 30 was that 30 was like that conversation with Elliot that was like. And that's part of what I want to share too, with people. Like, because maybe there's someone listening to this who's really in a tough moment. Like, really in a tough moment. And maybe no one knows about it, but keep going. Because at 30, I had no idea it would be this good. Not ex, not the external stuff, the. I had no idea it could feel this good. And you can't have a life without pain, but you have a pain with a lot less suffering. So at 30, to answer your question, I, I always go through a lot of pain. I think I was seeking a lot already. I was already into meditation. I already read. I'd already spent a lot of time seeking out answers because I, I, I was searching for them. I was just getting ready to walk across America. So I think I could probably spit some, spit some game at that point. But looking back, was. Was I really mastering that? That the feeling part, the internal part yet? No, I hadn't, I hadn't figured that out yet. And I haven't fully figured it out now, but I got it more figured

C (52:36)

out than this is part of that figuring it out. You talk about relationships earlier. I just have this feeling list listening to you, and I don't know this, that I have to believe. This is just my belief system. And you can believe whatever you want, everybody, I love all of you. But doing this alone, without a knowing or a growing relationship with your version of God sure is hard. And for me, you know, I'm where I'm at in my life through God's grace, and I'm pretty bold about that fact. I love people that, you know, I love people. And so whatever your faith choice is, that's not what today's episode's about necessarily, but I'd be making a huge miss if I didn't ask you about that part of your life. Has your relationship or understanding of God changed over this time as well? And is that a big. Is that the most important relationship you have, or one of them.

B (53:32)

Yeah, it's the most important, and it has changed. I grew up in a Jewish household, but I was raised what was called secular humanistic, meaning I went to Sunday school, but I wasn't taught anything about God. I asked my mom about this later. I said, why didn't. Why did you raise like that? She goes, I. I had a childhood where a lot of stuff was forced on me. And so we raised you that way not because I don't believe it, she believes in God. But we raised that way because we wanted you to make a decision when you're an adult. So actually, that makes a lot of sense. So then the spiritual part of my life really started with my friend Big Sean. Big Sean? Yeah. Do you know Big Sean?

C (54:29)

Yeah, I do. I know who he is. Yes.

B (54:31)

So he and I, we met in Detroit when we were kids, so we're the same age. So I knew him when I was 18. And then my music started to. To take off. Then his took off. And I saw him about. I think we're probably 23, 24. And he was, like, glowing. Like, glowing. And his. The external part of his life was exploding as well. And I said to him, like, dude, what. What do you. What changed? He goes, you gotta read two books. One was the Alchemist, and the second one was asking. It is given. It's a book all by the law of attraction. So I read these books, and they start opening my eyes to have a spiritual part of my life. I would run. I would say, well, I used to be depressed. I would say, I am joy. I would say, I am faith. I am love. And it taught me to reframe challenges when they came. But I learned to ask this new question, what am I supposed to learn from this? Inherent in that question? You know, assume the subtext is like, there's something out there that is. Is, like, actually gifting me this experience. Katie says, life. Life's not happening for you. Excuse me. Life's not happening to you. Life's happening for you. Right.

C (55:56)

Her book right there. Yep.

B (55:58)

And so that. That was a big part of faith. And then it evolved. Like, even it's evolving. Excuse me. Last year in 2025. Excuse me, I. Some wild experiences with. With Jesus moving in my life. Signs in my life. Like, just. I don't want to go. It's like, you know, crazy. Excuse me. Crazy stories, but just having wild signs where Jesus was moving in my life. And so it's evolved so much and is evolving, but it is the most important relationship Louise Hay says my security does not come from my bank account, my spouse, or my parents. It comes from my ability to connect to all that is. Which I call God, right? And that's the only place I. I'm always mess up. This line from scripture, Jesus says, you know, don't store up your treasure where what, rust and thieves can get them or something. I don't know the exact way to say it, but what he means is everything on this earth, it changes. It goes away. You can't. You can't place your security in another person. Even in my fiance. I love her. If she could give me that security, she would. But she's a human being, right? She can't be exactly what I needed to be at all times. What kind of man would I be, right? But that's what I needed. So you can only get that security from one place. And. And that's God. I think that's what we're all searching for. And it's a personal. It's a personal relationship. And I'm like you. I. I love people. I'm here to just be a blessing. The more we can realize, you know, our life, actually, my life actually doesn't belong to me. That this higher power and. And we talk about not being the mind. I think that's how you connect to it faster, right? You. You identify with this part of you that's connected to it, and you start to live a life that I'm stepping into more is scary for me, Ed, where you just. You just listen to that thing as it guides you. And sometimes it speaks to us in dreams, sometimes speak to us in. Through other human beings, and sometimes it speaks to us through that still small voice inside us. And that's the life that I'm interested in leading. Not one that's like, hey, I read this. This is the next step. Go do that. You know, it's like I feel like I'm on. On a magical journey. And. And the breadcrumbs get left for me by. By God. And I. I just try to follow what it says. And here we are, bro.

C (58:58)

I'm sitting here emotional. I'm being this quiet because I can't believe we've had this conversation today. And first off, just remember this. As you're afraid, Jesus holds you in the palm of his hand, and so he's always with you. He'll never leave you nor forsake you. And so you don't have to have that fear. But I know exactly what you mean. I have it from time to time as well, it just makes me emotional to see this, the whole conversation. I've done 800 and some odd 900 of these. None have flown by this quickly and none have. I felt like I'm just in the beginning, not the end of this conversation. I truly mean that. And I'm going to make you come back on here and do this again.

B (59:40)

I would love. It'd be my pleasure.

C (59:42)

Because, bro, like, you know, I'll just tell you that you're being used for good and. And you're remarkable. Just accept that, please.

B (59:53)

Thank you.

C (59:53)

And I also. Something's out right now that we need to talk about at the end, because here's the good thing about this conversation. It's been so incredible. I'm a hundred percent sure everybody stayed to the end. That's how good this is. And I think everybody's with me saying, please come back. But what's up with. I went back to Ibiza. We need to know about this. So tell us.

B (60:13)

Yeah, this is incredible. So it's such a blessing. We talk about my life story, you know, today, and I get to encapsulate a lot of these moments with music, you know, so you want to know how I felt right at this moment at Elliot, where I'm thinking about, listen to a real good kid. It's. It's, you know, I made an album, a lot of these chapters of life. And so when I look back on these, this body of work of music, it's pretty cool because it's all there. But I think it's 12 years ago now. I wrote a song called I Took a Pill in Ibiza and is a very successful song. And it was a heartbreaking song about how empty my life was, having reached fame, but kind of on the other side of it. And the chorus was, all I know are sad songs. Maybe two years ago on my birthday, because I wrote the song on my birthday, 26th birthday, I wrote an Instagram post. I said, you know, 10 years had gone by, and this song, every lyric in it is now untrue in my life. So I went through each line, I said, you know what I was talking about in my life at that time, when it was honest and vulnerable and it was real at the time. I go all these things that transformed in 10 years, like, what a great. What an amazing 10 years. Thank you. And I had a guy that works me on social media. So he would. The post went viral. So then he would, like, every six months, he would change the post, repost it up, it'd go viral again. You know how they do that, right? And they keep telling me all this keeps going, keeps being, taking off. People keep resonating with the message. Finally, my fiance says to me, well, you keep doing this post about how your life changed. She goes, why don't you rewrite this song with new words about your life now? So I said, hey, I'm supposed to come up with the song ideas. You know, Come on, you're creeping on my territory. So I said, this is a good idea. So I did. So. And it came out. It just came out more beautiful than I could imagine. So I'm really excited to share that song with the world and people can go check it out. It's called I to Want Went Back to Ibiza. And it's about. It's about transformation. Okay.

C (62:43)

You're coming back to the Ed My Let show.

B (62:45)

Yes, I am. Yes. I can't wait to meet you in person, man.

C (62:48)

Yeah, brother, same here. We need to do that. We'll do it soon, too. So, everybody, I just sometimes already know what your response is, so I'm not going to add anything to today. This was extraordinary. And put this one in a time capsule. And I'm really grateful for you, bro.

B (63:03)

Really grateful for you, too. God bless you.

C (63:05)

God bless you, man. Hey, everybody, this is. This is why I do the show. It's why this old man is still doing this thing right now. It's days like today. This is why I do the show right here. God bless you, everybody. Please share this. Max out your life.

B (63:23)

This is the Ed Milan show.