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- [00:00]
Ed Mylett
So hey guys, listen, we're all trying to get more productive and the question is, how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you're getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth based environment that you're much more likely to grow and you're going to grow faster. And that's why I love Growth Day. Growth Day is an app that my friend Brendan Burchard has created that I'm a big fan of. Write this down growthday.com forward/ed. So if you want to be more productive, by the way, he's asked me, I post videos in there every single Monday that gets your day off to the right start. Got about $5,000, $10,000 worth of courses that are in there that come with the app. Also, some of the top influencers in the world are all posting content in there on a regular basis, like having the avengers of personal development and business in one app. And I'm honored that he asked me to be a part of it as well and contribute on a weekly basis. And I do. So go over there and get signed up. You're going to get a free tuition, free voucher to go to an event with Brendan and myself and a bunch of other influencers as well. So you get a free event out of it also. So go to growthday.com forward slash ed. That's growthday.com ed this episode brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Shifting a little money here, a little there, hoping it all works out well. With the name your price tool from Progressive you can get a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help find you options within your budget. Try it today@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states. Advantage Gold is giving away a free copy of Rogoff's book to anyone who schedules a one on one precious metals appointment. You'll discover why gold is becoming the number one hedge against a global currency ship and how to move your IRA or 401k into physical gold. Tax and penalty free. Get your free copy today while supplies last. Text WIN to 85545 that's WIN 85545 or go to advantagegold.com data and message rates apply. Performance may vary. You should always consult your financial and tax professional. This is the Ed Milet Show. Welcome back to the show, everybody. So today's a special show. I've wanted to talk to this woman for over a decade. I wanted to talk to her before I had a podcast, because her story is unbelievable. Most of you know who she is, but those of you that might be a little bit younger, you may not. So let me give you a little refresher. June 5, 2002. My guest was kidnapped at knife point from her bedroom in Salt Lake City, Utah, by a guy named Brian David Mitchell. And his wife Wanda helped a little bit, too, and she ended up in captivity with these people for nine months, during which she was often moved all over the place. She suffered every type of abuse you can possibly imagine during those nine months, every type you can imagine. And I remember watching, thinking, this little girl is gone. I remember thinking she was gone. And then, shockingly, In March of 2003, Elizabeth was found and rescued in Sandy, Utah, only about 18 miles from her house. And since that time, spoiler alert. She's lived an amazing life of contribution. She's turned that tragedy into something just absolutely miraculous. She is the founder of the Elizabeth Smart foundation, which we're going to talk about today. But when you talk about resilience, toughness, a comeback, whatever you want to call it, there's probably nobody on earth I'd rather talk to, and I mean that, than this woman about those topics. And so, Elizabeth Smart, finally, welcome to the show. It's great to have you.
- [03:52]
Elizabeth Smart
Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.
- [03:55]
Ed Mylett
Well, good. And by the way, guys, on YouTube, she's smiling, which means she is really, really happy. She's got a cold today, but we're gonna. We're gonna power through. Any of you going through. Have gone through any type of trauma in your life, probably difficult to compare to hers, but you've gone through trauma, or you're just going through a hard time right now, and you need some resiliency skills and some comeback skills. We're gonna. We're gonna go through those things today. So I don't even know where to begin, but I think what I want to do is at least go back a little bit. But I want to spend the. On what you're doing now. But I want to go back just a little bit. And I'm wondering, the day you get abducted, if you could go back to yourself at 14, Elizabeth, if you could even put yourself there again, what would you say to that little girl as she's got to be terrified and scared and being whisked away, what would you Whisper to her if you could go back and say something to her.
- [04:44]
Elizabeth Smart
That's a good question. There was nothing that could have prepared me for that moment. There wasn't anything that anyone could have said leading up to it that would have altered what happened or, I don't know, changed how I react. Because I had lived such a sheltered life. I had, you know, never experienced, like, anything bad. I came from a loving family. I lived in a nice neighborhood, I lived in a nice home. Like, this was just something that was so far removed from anything that had ever happened to me. I don't think that there's actually anything that could have prepared me. But I think if I was going to say something, I would tell myself, don't give up. You will survive this. Just make it through every day as it comes.
- [05:33]
Ed Mylett
Every day, one day at a time. It's interesting. Anything traumatic like that adage works. I can't possibly imagine what one day for you was like as a little girl. I'm just having a daughter, just, you know, missing your mom and dad. The abuse that you're taking daily, wondering if it's ever going to end or you're going to be found. Was there a point, and by the way, it would be completely acceptable? I'm just curious, was there a point where you no longer believed you were going to be found and this was going to be it forever? Did you eventually just kind of give into that as a reality?
- [06:06]
Elizabeth Smart
There were definitely moments where I thought that this might be my reality until my captors died, which, like, in my mind at the time, I was like, that could be another 30 years. So I felt like there was a good chance I would outlive them. But like, being rescued, making it home, like it felt like it was far away. Yeah, there were plenty of those times.
- [06:31]
Ed Mylett
One thing that's just mind blowing to me about that time and again, guys, we're going to shift into the tools and the things she's accomplished since and what she's learned. But one thing that blew my mind about this story, because I'm watching it as a young man and I'm thinking, this little girl's gone. Most you don't find someone in nine months. Right. And. And then to learn later, these people, like, walked you into town several times. Like you were right there near even. I think a police officer actually pulled your guy over, did he not like you were that close to being rescued multiple times. Most people don't know that part of the story.
- [07:07]
Elizabeth Smart
It was very close. And actually that's probably one of the more common questions I get asked as well, why didn't you run? Why didn't you scream? Why didn't you say anything? And I feel like it's important to address that because I feel like, although my experience is different from many other survivors, this instance is very common. I mean, we see it in domestic violence situations where people are like, you had a car. Why didn't you just drive away? Your husband was beating you. Why didn't you just sleep? It's never just as simple as, like, getting in a car and going away. For me, it wasn't as simple as, like, just screaming out, being like, I'm Elizabeth Smart. Come save me. As much as I wanted to, I had already spent months in captivity. I'd already been through huge amounts of abuse, and I had been threatened repeatedly that if I said or did anything they didn't want me to do, that they'd kill me, that they would kill my family. They felt like they felt invincible to me. He'd bring back missing posters of the search efforts for me. He'd talk about how Salt Lake City was just covered in my face, and there were blue ribbons everywhere, tied around trees, all in, like, remembrance of me. And he'd just laugh about it and be like, all of Salt Lake is looking for you, but no one will ever find you because I have you. And that felt like that was the truth. And so he really. He really did feel like he was invincible. And when he made threats, they were not idle threats. I mean, the threats that he made, he followed through with enough of them that I truly believe that he would kill me or that he would kill my family if I didn't do exactly what he said. Now, as an adult and like, having been in this space, in hindsight, when I speak to survivors, I often talk about how, like, parents should talk to their children and be like, if anyone ever tells you to keep a secret, you need to tell me. And if anyone ever says, like, we will get hurt, that's not your job to protect us. Our job is to protect you. And so trying to keep those lines of communication open, I think are so important. But that burden was also very heavy on my shoulders. I felt like it was my responsibility to protect my family. So I did what I was told.
- [09:24]
Ed Mylett
I just had a friend. It's ironic that we're talking. I have a female friend. She's just incredibly strong woman. Like, she's like a. Like a badass, you know? And. And. But in her first relationship, her first relationship was abusive. She lived with a Man who was abusive. And it's almost impossible now for me to picture her staying to your point, like, why'd you stay? And she said a couple things. She said, well, one, your identity is completely stripped of you, so you're not thinking in a way of a. A strong person. It's been taken from you. And she had. The other thing was these threats he made. I believed them. And I think this judgment that we have, any of you listening to this today that are in a relationship that you know you need to get out of, maybe you're in it, you're afraid to leave because there's physical abuse. Maybe they've emotionally abused you to the point where you don't love or believe in yourself anymore. Maybe they've stripped your identity from you. Maybe you're afraid to leave because financially you, you can't afford to be on your own. Maybe some of you in a relationship that you aren't going to leave because of the social judgment of what people are going to think that you didn't make it as a couple. If you could talk to someone, Elizabeth, who's in some varying degree because there's degrees of everything of a toxic to all the way up to physically abusive relationship. And they know in their heart this isn't where I belong. I don't belong here. Clearly you didn't. What would you say to someone who's in that spot?
- [10:51]
Elizabeth Smart
You know, I would want them to know they are so strong. They are so strong that they can do hard things. And it's going to be hard. It is going to be scary leaving the abusive relationship. It is going to be difficult. It's not going to be easy, but it is going to be worth it because there are so many good people in this world who want to help, who have built organizations and companies and offered programs around trying to help survivors get out of these horrific situations. And unfortunately, not everyone is always blessed to be born into a supportive family. But these people that you come into contact with, you find your family, you choose your family. And so do not give up. You're so strong, you can do hard things and, and you deserve to be happy. You don't deserve to be in pain. You don't deserve to be hurt.
- [11:47]
Ed Mylett
I remember when you got rescued. I'm just going to speak candidly. I have an hour with you. And I remember when you got rescued. I was thinking, first off, I couldn't believe you were rescued because everyone thought you were gone. And then I remember going, I mean, I'm just be candid. She's going to be a mess. There's just no way that nine months, what she's gone through, there's no way she's going to become a functional, contributory person, bless her heart. I. I felt only empathy and no hope when I thought of you. I'm saying that candidly because I think that was probably what the majority of people thought. I'm curious about one. The day you were rescued, what those emotions were like, if you could even remember. And how did you. Let me listen to you with the foundation and Smart Defense and a couple books and all the stuff. And by the way, a loving marriage and family you created of your own. The broad question first, then we'll get specifics. What was it like the day you were rescued? And how in the world have you turned out the way you have?
- [12:49]
Elizabeth Smart
The day that I was rescued, I mean, it was a roller coaster. Like, it. It was. It was scary. I didn't always know what was going on, but ultimately, at the end of the day, when I finally made it back to my home, I felt like everything that had been taken away from me had all of a sudden been given back. And I just remember feeling like I never wanted to miss out on anything ever again. I felt like I'd already missed out on so much. And so I wanted to, like, I wanted to live my life. I wanted to do all the things that I had ever dreamed of because those had felt like they'd been taken away from me. And I just. I just didn't want to miss out on anything. So that was how I felt the day that I came home. And then. Sorry, what was your second question?
- [13:34]
Ed Mylett
Well, how did you. The broad one, because we're going to get specific to what you teach in a second. But, like, how the heck did this turn out so well? I mean, was it. Was it intensive therapy, prayer, the combination of all of the above? I mean, we're gonna go through your steps in a second, but just broadly speaking, it's in. It's unbelievable how seemingly not just normal, but exceptional your life has become.
- [14:01]
Elizabeth Smart
I think a lot of it had to do with, like, the way I was raised. I did grow up in a very loving, like, solid, secure family. Like, I never doubted as a child whether or not I was wanted or whether I was loved. Like, I always knew that. And I think that really made the difference for me because when I came back, that didn't change. My family still treated me the way that I'd always been treated. And as I look back on what happened, I chose not to go to therapy after I was rescued because I did not understand what therapy was in my mind. It was just like it was going to be going to someone who couldn't possibly understand what I'd been through and rehashing everything that I'd been through. And I remember just thinking in my mind, well, why would I want to do that? I already survived it. Nobody was there beside me while I was going through all that. It would have been nice to talk to someone while I was going through that, but. But I'm not going through that anymore. So why would I want to talk about it with someone who couldn't possibly understand what it was like I was there. That was my very uneducated thoughts around therapy at the time. So I didn't want to. Of course, that scared my parents. They were very worried about me, and so they actually went to therapy bed. And their therapist was like, it's okay. Like, it's okay. She doesn't want to go to therapy. That's fine. Both of you need to make sure that you are in a place that if she ever decides to talk about what happened, you can listen to her and be there for her without crumbling yourselves. So actually, they did go to therapy.
- [15:52]
Ed Mylett
That's so interesting. And not. Not you. Did there become it? This is where I wanted to go. But did there become a time where you did want to talk about it, or is that just that times never arrived, you just dealt with it internally?
- [16:05]
Elizabeth Smart
No, I never wanted to talk about it.
- [16:08]
Ed Mylett
Wow.
- [16:09]
Elizabeth Smart
But then when my case finally came to trial. Yeah, it's a little bit, I guess, of a longer story. Initially, my parents were told that if I would talk to these two psychiatrists, that they could stand as proxy for me, as witness for me in the trial. So probably the day after I was rescued, I went to the Children's Justice Center. I was brought into this room with these two psychiatrists, and they were. They were men. They were roughly the age of my captors. They were clearly. Clearly religious, which, like, that's fine. Like, good for everyone or like, believing whatever they want to believe in, practicing it, being dedicated to it. But having come out of a situation where religion was used to justify every kind of torture they did to me, that just was not a very comfortable situation for me and being alone in this room. And then, you know, they did question me extensively again. Like, I'd grown up in a bubble. I had lived an incredibly sheltered life. I. I mean, you know, my parents didn't just, like, throw around the words penis, vagina, Breasts. I mean, they were your privates. That was how it was referred to. Those are your privates. And so all of a sudden, having to go into great graphic detail and use those. Those words, penis, vagina, that was very uncomfortable and difficult for me. And because they were psychiatrists, I thought, oh, this must be what therapy is like. No, thank you. I never want to do this. My case really got stuck in the courts. There was always a question of. Of competence or versus incompetence. Were they competent right now? Could they prove that they were competent when they kidnapped me? They would need to be forced Medicaid. I mean, it was just like a whole big mess to the point where the statute of limitations actually almost came up within the state courts. And so then I was approached and asked if I wanted to move my case to the federal courts. And of course I wanted to move my case to the federal courts. If my captors got out, like, they.
- [18:43]
Ed Mylett
Would not know this.
- [18:44]
Elizabeth Smart
I have no doubt they would have come back after me. So my case was then moved to the federal courts. And it was, I mean, the better part of a decade before my case actually made it.
- [18:56]
Ed Mylett
Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh.
- [19:00]
Elizabeth Smart
It was, of course, by then, the two psychiatrists, they were no longer allowed to testify for me. I was an adult by then, and so I had to testify myself. And that was the. The interviewing with the prosecution preparing for the trial was the first time that I really went into detail about what happened. And on the stand, that, I guess was about as public as I had ever been talking about what happened. And in that moment, I just felt like all of this, like, all of my story, everything that I'm talking about is. Is coming across like facts, just like bullet points. And this is my life, and it's more than just bullet points. And if I'm going to share, like, the worst moments of my life, it needs. It needs to be more than just entertainment or it needs to be more than just a court case. And so that's really when. It was after that that we started the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. It was after that that I started publicly speaking and sharing my. Sharing my story. Unfortunately, sexual violence is. Is so common, is so high. Like, I know without a doubt anytime I speak that I am not the only survivor in the room.
- [20:32]
Ed Mylett
Wow.
- [20:32]
Elizabeth Smart
So, like, whenever I'm invited to speak, it doesn't really matter who the audience is, because statistically, I'm not the only survivor in there.
- [20:43]
Ed Mylett
It's unbelievable. First off, I did not know that it. That it took a decade. I did know, you confronted, you know, the abuser in court. I think it would surprise most people listening to this right now, Elizabeth, that first off that they put a little girl one day later and with two dudes that look just like the guy that abducted her, I mean, that's more abuse in my mind. So that's shocking. But the other part is probably pretty surprising, I think you would agree, was that you really didn't talk about it until you were on that stand. That's surprising to people that you didn't do therapy, that you didn't talk about it. That's, that would be not what most people would, would guess. And I want to talk about the Elizabeth Smart foundation in a second, but I want to connect it to what you teach because I want them to understand the value they get from it. So, hey guys, I want to jump in here for a second and talk about change and growth. And you know, by the way, it's no secret how people get ahead in life or how they grow. And also taking a look at the future, if you want to change your future, you got to change the things you're doing. If you continue to do the same things, you're probably going to produce the same results. But if you get into a new environment where you're learning new things and you're around other people that are growth oriented, you're much more likely to do that yourself. And that's why I love Growth Day. Write this down for a second. Growthday.com forward/ed my friend Brendan Burchard has created the most incredible personal development and business app that I've ever seen in my life. Everything from goal setting software to personal accountability, journaling courses, thousands of dollars worth of courses in there as well. I create content in there on Mondays where I contribute as do a whole bunch of other influencers like the avengers of influencers and business minds in there. It's the Netflix for high achievers or people that want to be high achievers. So go check it out. My friend Brennan's made it very affordable, very easy to get involved. Growthday.com forward slash ed that's growthday.com forward slash ed. This show is sponsored by Better Help. So you know, guys, men today face immense pressure and they got to be able to perform, provide. They got to keep it all together. I know, I'm a guy, right? Stuff isn't easy. So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the US suffer from depression every year. Think about what I just said. Six million men admit to suffering from depression every year. My hunch that number is more like twice that. And it's often not even diagnosed by most people. If you're a man and you're feeling a little bit of stress, the weight of the world on you, maybe you should look at therapy. And if you're going to look at therapy, take a look at BetterHelp. I can tell you I've had therapy in my life. It's made a big difference. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with better help our listeners get 10 off their first month@betterhelp.com ed show that's better. H E L p.com edshow so you're probably smart enough to know when something isn't working. And for me, when I'm off even my cognitive function, I always kind of decide what's going on with my gut. So when there's things going on like you can't focus at work, your stomach's bothering you, it feels like you've got kind of symptoms like that. Your gut impacts everything from your digestion to your brain function and your energy levels. And so when your energy is draining, you got to ask yourself why. That's why. I love Just Thrive Probiotic. Just Thrive is one of the only probiotics clinically designed to arrive in your gut 100% alive. Try just thrive probiotic for 90 days and see how much better you feel. If you don't feel a difference, they'll refund every penny. Even if the bottle's empty, you just pay for shipping. Start your 90 day free trial today at Just Thrive Health.com and use promo code ED to save 20% on your first bottle. That's Just Thrive. Thrive Health.com promo code ED these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease or condition. These statements and information are not a substitute for or an alternative to seeking care from your health care providers. So any of you that have gone through something, you've heard this term now, ptsd, right? And, and that can be from everything from someone who's a war fighter to someone who's gone through physical abuse, emotional abuse in a relationship. They even attribute that to people like myself who grew up in an alcoholic or drug addicted family. There's, there's again varying degrees and you talk about post traumatic Growth. What does that mean? Like, what's it mean to you personally? Post traumatic growth.
- [25:01]
Elizabeth Smart
To me, like, if I'm just going to explain it using my words.
- [25:05]
Ed Mylett
Yeah.
- [25:06]
Elizabeth Smart
When going through something really hard, I feel like you. You have a choice to make. I think it's a very, very difficult choice. And I don't think it's just like flicking a switch. It's not like, on and off. But basically you choose. Do you allow what's happened to you to crush you, or do you use that as a propellant to push you forward and to, like, live your life to the fullest, to do something greater than what you ever imagined beforehand? So me, it's. It's pushing yourself forward. It's not letting it stop you from living your life.
- [25:46]
Ed Mylett
I had this thing I say on a lot of my content. I say, you're most qualified in life to help the person you used to be. And I just really believe that. I think God takes us through our darkest and most difficult times, or even the things we're ashamed of or embarrassed of or sins or mistakes we've made, and wants us to use those things to serve the people that are similar to us, that are. That are like us. One of the things you guys, about the foundation, I. I'm like, oh, that's great. She's got a foundation. Everybody's got a foundation. That's cool. She's got a big brand name. But if you actually really look into this foundation, you guys, the work they do is tremendous. Like, it's the real deal. And even on how to learn to defend yourself through smart defense, like, it's. There's teeth to this. There's actual tangible things you would learn and go through. I would ask you about forgiveness, and I wonder, do you ever get there? You're. Forgive yourself, Forgive them, and what that concept means to you and does it matter in life?
- [26:41]
Elizabeth Smart
So I think I. I think forgiveness. Maybe my definition's a little different. I don't know. But I. I don't think forgiveness is necessarily like, oh, what you did is okay. Like, it's all right. I mean, at the end of the day, like kidnappings. I was gonna be kidnapping. Rape is always gonna be rape. Like, there. And there's no world that exists that I'm ever gonna think kidnapping someone is okay or raping something is okay. Yeah, I think forgiveness is really more for me, and I think it's more just the letting go of the anger over what happened more than anything else. I actually think probably forgiveness is. Is probably the greatest form of self love that you can have for yourself, because you love yourself enough that you aren't going to let whatever you've experienced ruin the rest of your life. You are like, you've felt the anger. You've. You've processed it, you've gone through it. But then you're also able to leave it alone and move forward. And to me, that's what forgiveness is. So do I feel like I've forgiven my captors? Yes. But I never want to see them again. I never have anything to do with them again. I could happily live the rest of my life and never, like, never think of them or have anything to do with them or see a picture of them ever again. That would be just fine with me.
- [28:24]
Ed Mylett
I imagine that might be one of the most perfectly said things ever said on the show. The way you just described that concept, that was. That was awesome. Here's what I didn't know. I wanted to ask you about it because you're. You've become an expert on this stuff. How does trauma reshape your brain? Like, literally, because I know you've done a little bit of looking into this. How does trauma reshape your brain? And then how do you reclaim your power when you've lost all of it? Like, you've just. You got no power in your life. You're powerless, completely. Are those two things connected? It's reshaped your brain so you don't think you're powerful anymore. Like, how does it affect your brain? And how do you get some sense of power back?
- [29:00]
Elizabeth Smart
I mean, I think everything's connected. And what's really interesting about trauma is that when you go through something very traumatic, like, if you look at me, I don't have any, like, physical scars from when I was abducted. Like, I don't have any knife wounds or, like, I mean, I was never stabbed with a knife, but the knife was held to my neck. Like, I don't have any scarring on my neck. I don't have. I don't have any, like, physical markers on my body that would show to you that I went through something traumatic. And probably if you didn't know me at all and you just met me, you wouldn't think that I ever had a hard day in my life, but guess but if you actually look at the brain. So I went and had a brain scan in Dr. Amen's clinic.
- [29:51]
Ed Mylett
I love him.
- [29:52]
Elizabeth Smart
Fall. And there is actually there are physical markers that show up on your brain when you've experienced trauma. So it shows up in a Diamond pattern. And the diamond pattern did show up in my brain. So there are physical markers on your brain left by trauma. So even if you don't have scarring or broken bones or black eyes, trauma still leaves its mark. And yes, I. I am not the expert. He is. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that yes, it does very much and can affect, like, how you process things and decisions you make moving forward. That's not to say that you are less than or impaired next time. It just affects you. Which makes sense. I mean, all of our experiences affect us. If you had a really bad experience walking home at night in the dark, you might not want to. Again, like, that makes sense, right? And so, yes, it does affect us.
- [30:55]
Ed Mylett
This is personal. But I want to know if you don't mind because you've not talked about it a lot and your relationship with your husband is. Is personal. So I'm not going to go there. Do you flashback? Will you be driving in the car and have a moment and then if you do, I'll give you why I ask in my little tiny speck of a way. It's not even in the same universe as what you went through. I will flashback sometimes to some pretty difficult moments when I was a little boy. And I really wish I didn't, but I do. I'm wondering if you. A random moment or a trigger will flash you back for a second. And if. If it doesn't happen, wonderful. If it does, is there something you do to flip the switch, so to speak, out of that state?
- [31:38]
Elizabeth Smart
Well, there's two. Two parts to the question or two things that I want to address that you said. One of the things you said, oh, like, I don't want to get into your relationship with your husband, but that is actually also something that is very commonly asked, surprisingly enough, like, you were raped. How could you then be intimate with your partner? And that is actually a space that I very much would like to move into in the future with really smart foundation, because so many survivors. First of all, I want to establish that sex and healthy intimacy are different. They are not the same thing. And then I want to, like, I want to have the conversation and great, like, explore with survivors. How do you move past that? That is a future project I very much want to do. We don't have anything yet, but that is something I feel very passionate about because everyone deserves to have a full life. Everyone to feel loved and adored and taken care of. And they should know that abuse is not like healthy intimacy. And healthy intimacy is not Rape, like, should be able to have a very clear separation of those two. And so if a survivor is through it, like, they deserve to find some love with someone else and to feel taken care of. So that is something.
- [33:10]
Ed Mylett
That's major work you'd be doing there. That's tremendous. Yes, that's tremendous.
- [33:15]
Elizabeth Smart
I very much want to get it.
- [33:17]
Ed Mylett
Yeah, I love it.
- [33:19]
Elizabeth Smart
Do I ever have flashbacks and how do I deal with it? I wouldn't say that I struggle with them a lot. They happen occasionally. I'm just like, oh, oh, my goodness. Like, that. That reminds me that that kind of takes me back. But that's. I guess when I kind of look at myself and I say, okay, like, that does remind me of that. I don't really like that, but, like, I am here. I am in this moment. I am sitting in my home or my car or my office, like, whatever. I'm like. I try to bring myself back to the current moment and then, like, acknowledge what happened, but be like, okay, that happened. That's a thing. But I'm here. I'm not in that moment anymore.
- [34:11]
Ed Mylett
I'm amazed by you. Like, I hope I. I assume everybody listening, sort of like me. It's like I'm just processing you. Since you brought your husband up and we're allowed to go there, I want to lean into that just for a second. You married an Irishman, didn't you? Am I right about that?
- [34:25]
Elizabeth Smart
A Scott.
- [34:26]
Ed Mylett
I am a Scott. Close. I knew he had the accent. So you married a Scott. I'm curious, was it difficult initially to trust a man again? Like, for me? Well, I won't say for me.
- [34:39]
Elizabeth Smart
You.
- [34:39]
Ed Mylett
You tell us. You tell us. Was it difficult to trust a man again? And. And. And did it take a long time to establish that?
- [34:46]
Elizabeth Smart
I was scared of older men. I was scared of men around the age of my captor. I didn't want to be left alone with them. That was scary to me. But I wasn't scared around, like, boys my age or men my age as I got older. And I think for me, it was always very. It just felt like there was a difference because I could say no or I could walk away. Like I wasn't completely helpless or powerless. And I think that made a really big difference for me. If I was asking out on a date, I could say no if I didn't feel comfortable, or I could set boundaries for myself. And. And so it was like the power was in me. Like, I made the choices. It wasn't. I think if I came back home and it was like arranged marriages were a thing and being married off to someone, you know, my dad's age and I had no power or no say in anything, I think that would have been, that would have been very difficult to overcome. I don't think I'd be where I am today had that been the scenario. But because everything then coming forward and moving forward with dating and eventually meeting my husband and getting married, that was all on my terms. Like I always had the option to walk away at any point. I mean, I wasn't chained up, I wasn't forced to be there. It was always an option. And I think for me that's what made the difference.
- [36:24]
Ed Mylett
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- [39:23]
Elizabeth Smart
Probably. But then it's, you know, it's like that old saying, you don't know what you have until you lose it. I mean, I lost it. No, I lost my family. I lost my life. For nine months. My life was stolen from me. So do I always remember it? And do I always have, like, a great altruistic Look? I know I'm human, like, days and days where I'm cranky and not grateful, but I try to remember. And, I mean, my husband is the exact opposite from the man who kidnapped me. He is kind and he is gentle, and he would protect me. He would do anything. He always puts me first. And I always tried to do the same for him. Like, I tried to put him first. And. No, I try to be there for him in any way he needs me to be. And, like, we both try to put each other first, and I think that's how relationships should be.
- [40:23]
Ed Mylett
I love that. I watched a little thing on the two of you, and I'm like, he's a good man, of course. Thought he was Irish and not a Scotsman, but I get credit. It's close it's close enough. No offense. No, no offense to my Irish or scotch friends. Okay, I'm sorry. By the way, everybody, in case you were wondering, her captor got life and the woman got 15, which is bizarre, sir. 15, which is bizarre. Okay, I want to get into some of the teeth of things. One thing with the Smart foundation, there's so many smart defense. I brought it up two or three times, and I think I want you to talk to, well, men and women, but particularly women in this. How important is it, do you think, that people begin to learn to physically defend themselves?
- [41:03]
Elizabeth Smart
Well, just to give you a little bit more reference on it, I was on a flight and I'd fallen asleep. I'd been upgraded to first class. I mean, who doesn't love that? Especially if you fly a lot? And I was so tired, I sat down on the plane and I just fell asleep. I think I fell asleep before the plane even took over off. And I woke up as we were starting our descent. And it was because the man who was sitting next to me had reached over and he was rubbing my inner thigh.
- [41:31]
Ed Mylett
Oh, my gosh.
- [41:32]
Elizabeth Smart
I was so shocked that I froze. And I didn't know what to do. Like, I remember just looking at him, waiting for him to apologize or, or say, you know, excuse. Like, I don't know what possible excuse he could give to, like, justify in that moment, but I was like waiting for him to give it to me and he never did. And I had to physically pick up his hand and take it off me. And I reported it to the airline, I reported it to the FBI. But what. We're being so angry that that had happened to me again. And I remember thinking, no, like, I've got to be one of the most well known victims in America. Do I just like, huge billboard across my forehead saying, easy target. Like, this is not okay. And in that moment, you know, like, you're on a plane and we're on our descent, and the airline's like, stay seated. Don't stand up. And so I was just like. And I didn't know what to do. And I thought, if I don't know what to do in that moment, and here I am like, Elizabeth Smart, what does anybody else know? It's actually the very rare kind of person that actually, like responds and fights back or screams. I mean, most people, they freeze. That is just like, you can sit there and think, well, if that was me in that situation, I would have smacked that guy or I would have done this or I would have done that. And that's great. Like, I hope you do. I hope everyone does. But most of us don't. And I think it's because so many of us, particularly women, know you're raised to be like, you're raised to be kind. You're not really raised to say no. You're not really raised to really stand firm with your boundaries. And I think that is incredibly dangerous. That's a very dangerous situation when you add predators into the mix. Look, it's great to be kind, it's great to be polite. Those are, those are good things. But when you, when you have predators in the mix, that is incredibly dangerous and it puts everyone at risk. So when I got off that plane, I was like, I do not want to be that person anymore. Like, I was petrified the night I was kidnapped. No, I just ended up doing exactly what my captor said. And I froze on this plane when the man was rubbing my leg. Like, this is not okay. And so we started Smart defense, which is a combination of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, Krav Magal, just any kind of dirty you can imagine. But it's also very trauma informed because our director, who, she is amazing. Like she's so incredible. She is almost a head shorter than me, but she could kill me with her pinky. Like she is a badass, my French. But yeah, she is amazing. But she is also a survivor herself. And she will be the first to tell you, like she could be raped tomorrow. Even though she's like that five time world champion in her weight group in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Like she's, you know, she's the real deal. So it is very trauma informed. And these are skills that we are just trying to give you. These are tools we are trying to teach you so that should you ever find yourself in that situation, you do not feel as defenseless as maybe you would otherwise. And I think it's so amazing because I like, I've attended the classes and I've been through the program multiple times and like I've held the mats and the pads for the women to strike. And I can tell you like a little, a little 11 year old girl, like she can kick hard. She can kick really hard. And I've held, I've held mats for like nine month pregnant women. Whoa. I would, if I were her husband, I would not want to piss her off. Like she also packs a wallet. Like women are so strong and I think it's easy to feel like we're not and like, oh, I don't know how to hit. I don't know how to strike, I don't know how to kick. Like I don't know how. And I mean my. So I got into running marathons for a while and like I trained and trained and trained and trained and trained. But if I have a, like if I held a race against my husband, like it just hits me. He's just faster than me. That's just unfortunately the truth. Like he is just faster than me. I could out distance him, right? But he would be faster than me. And I think that that's easy to get into our minds that men are just always stronger than us, more powerful than us. If a man attacks you, there's nothing you can do. But that is not true. You are so powerful, you are much stronger than you think you are. Like there are things that you can do and we're not even looking, we're not even training. Like if you pummel the guy or the predator into the ground, fantastic. I am not going to come complain about that. But ultimately what we're trying to give you is, are the skills to give you the opportunity to escape.
- [46:51]
Ed Mylett
Exactly.
- [46:52]
Elizabeth Smart
Just enough to get away.
- [46:55]
Ed Mylett
Exactly. That's exactly right. I hope you all heard that by the way. You men as well. But you ladies, a couple things will benefit you. One, if you could just learn a couple of these skills that might buy you 30 seconds or 20 seconds to get away. That's number one. But number one too also, just believing that you've got some of these skills and abilities will give you so much less anxiety and fear when you are in situations that you know, look a little bit sketchy. And so I really recommend you look into this, that what Elizabeth's doing there. That's why I brought it up three times. The thing you brought up that I want to ask you about. And we're going to run out of time before I get to everything I want. But I'm loving this. This is a broader question for everybody. But it comes to you as well. You said, hey, I'm sitting here in you of front first class discussion. I'm one of the most well known victims of all time. Right. And also because of that you have to talk about it still a lot. And one thing people get trapped in is an identity of their trauma or an identity of their former career. I was a high school quarterback, I was the beauty queen, I was the valedictorian or I'm a victim and I'm going to tell you my story. And then it sort of starts to become a self fulfilling Prophecy. And you reproduce this victimhood perpetually in your life. I wonder for you how you've navigated that because you, you are one of the most well known victims of all time. And to some extent you're going to talk about it to some extent forever because it is such a catalyst to helping create change. How have you, or maybe you haven't, maybe you've held onto that as a, as a reminder, but how have you kind of navigated your own identity? Like who Elizabeth Smart is now. She's not a 14 year old victim anymore. She's a married woman with a beautiful life and an incredible family. She's developed and built and, and makes this huge contribution world. How do you do that? How do you change that identity if you did?
- [48:49]
Elizabeth Smart
For a long time, I think I actually really struggled with that because I had been the wallflower before I was kidnapped. Like I was not the popular girl at school, school and, and that was fine, that was fine. Like I didn't need to be. I was happy just being who I was before. And so coming home, that was a very big change. All of a sudden having people recognizing me all of the time. I think it was good that it was almost a decade before I started sharing my story and speaking. I'm so grateful to other survivors who approached me and shared their stories with me because for the longest time I felt like I was alone and I felt like I was the only one who had been raped. I was the only one who had been kidnapped. I was the only one who had been forced to go through terrible things because they were not commonly talked about. I didn't hear anyone else coming forward and say I was raped. I didn't have any friends to say, no, I would, I'm abused at home. Or nobody talked about what the kinds of things that happen behind closed doors. So I felt very, very alone. So as time went on and I began to meet other survivors, I am so grateful to them for letting me know that I was not the only one who had experienced this. And now, I mean, they say one in three women, girls experience sexual, sexual abuse in their lifetime. Like that is a horrific statistic. And I bet it's probably even worse than that because there's so many cases where nobody ever says anything. And so whether you consciously know someone who has been abused like they've told you, whether they've told you or not, you do actually know someone. Because statistically it's just, it's impossible. If you know three women, you know someone who's been abused that's just, it.
- [50:51]
Ed Mylett
Just blows my mind. You know, you said earlier that when you're talking in a room that, you know, that you're not the only one in there. And I'm, it just made me think, you know, I speak all over the world. Like, I never think about that. You know, like someone in this room, in the front row, more than likely if there's three women in the front row have suffered some form of this abuse. And so many of us just go through our lives. You know, people are invisible or we judge or we criticize or we're we. And you don't know someone's story, you know, Elizabeth's story. But the vast majority of people, you don't know what they've been through or what they're currently going through. We'd all be a lot better off if we gave each other a little bit more grace and a little bit more love and kindness. It's one of the things I love about the show is I think we do do that for people. This message is sponsored by Green Light. So I got to tell you something, I've done a pretty good job with my kids in a few areas and, and some not so good in others, but the one I did a great job on was when it comes to money. But I got to tell you something, would have been a whole lot easier if we had Green Light. Green Light is a debit card and money app made for families that helps kids learn how to save, invest and spend money wisely. It's such a great idea. Parents can send money to their kids and keep an eye on kids spending and saving. Meanwhile, kids and teens are learning money, confidence and skills in a fun, accessible way. Greenlight app has things like a chores feature where you can set up one time or recurring chores, reward the kids with an allowance for a job well done. It's so great. They learn the value of money and it's fun and it's gamified. I wish I had it when I was a kid and I wish I had it when my kids were young. But yours can and you can. It's easy and it's convenient way for parents to help their kids learn money stuff and budgets. That's why millions of parents and kids are already learning about it. They're already using the app. It's top rated everywhere you go. So start your risk free Green Light trial today@greenlight.com that's greenlight.com ED to get started. Greenlight.com ED. You know Elizabeth, I've watched you really close Today, you really don't get that emotional when you talk about your situation. And even when you brought up your, you know, different situations today, you know where your face has changed twice. When. And by the way, and when you step into your power, it's almost like the Holy Spirit's all over you. When you start to talk, you even start speak differently, is when you speak of these other women who are survivors, you light up and you get emotional, your face changes. And I just wonder, is that just so heavy on your heart? I mean, you definitely shift when you begin to talk about the trauma other people, other women have gone through. I don't see it when you talk about your own as much as I see it when you talk about other women. And I'm just wondering if, is that just close to your heart all the time? Has it made a huge impact on you as you travel and speak and meet these women? They're not just like, you know, they're real people with real faces and real lives and real children. And I just wonder, does that speak to your heart? Because I can see it on your face.
- [53:42]
Elizabeth Smart
Yes, yes. And just the fact that so many of them suffer in silence or they don't have the support that I've had had. They don't. I mean, I don't know if anyone's ever had the support that I've had. Like, my. My word was never questioned. I never had to try to convince someone that I was kidnapped or that I was abused. Like, that was always known, believed 100%. I mean, sure, there's like the few.
- [54:09]
Ed Mylett
You know, there's always wackos, fringe wackos. But.
- [54:13]
Elizabeth Smart
Yeah, yeah, but really, like, my word has never been doubted. And I think I'm so grateful for that. I think that's why I'm where I am today. Because I think of the fact that most victims know the person who is abusing them. Usually it's someone that they trust or someone who is close to them. And I just think, no, I am so lucky that what happened to me came at the hands of a stranger because I don't go to bed at night, and I'm not scared who's going to crawl into bed next to me. I don't come home at the end of the day scared of the situation that I'm going to enter into. I know that if I have a hard day, I have a support system at home there for me. I know that if I say something like this happened or this happened, I'm believed. I'm not turned around and Questioned. And I'm not asked, well, why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? Well, why didn't you say something? Why didn't you report it to the police? Because so many victims are. And when they hear those words, why didn't you. They hear the words, you should have. That's how. Like their brain hearsay. You should have done more. It's your fault. You should have done something else. Or when it's, you know, a family member that makes it extra difficult. Like, how are you expected to move forward with your life when it's, you know, again, someone who should have protected you, someone who should have loved you, someone who definitely should not have been hurting you. And maybe it's divided your family. Maybe some of your family believes you and maybe some of your family is like, no, no, they would never do that. They're such a good person. We love them. How dare you say that? I mean, how impossible of a situation is that? Or just don't say anything. We'll have a word with them. Don't say anything. This is just going to go away. How unfair is that? How impossible is that? How is that victim supposed to move forward? How could they ever trust again? I mean, the, like, the level of betrayal for just abuse across the board is huge. But if it's by someone that you know, someone that you love, or maybe the people that you love, love, like, how. How do you overcome that? And that is what is most common. Like, my story is almost the exception. This is like what's happened. This is what happens.
- [56:36]
Ed Mylett
Mostly two things. One, you. Do. You definitely use gratitude about. You do that. I'm right about that. That's part of your map. And the other thing is, I'm just thinking how extraordinary, how remarkable is it that this little girl who is completely defenseless and couldn't protect herself has now become this massive protector of women that are victims, people that are victims. And that she's the protector now, she's the advocate now. She's the one who stands up for them. I want you to all just think about that just for a second. Go back. Go all the way back to 2002, when this little girl is taken from her family and so su. And is suffering unspeakable and immeasurable harm. Totally defenseless, can't protect herself. And now flash forward, and she's the protector and the advocate for people just like her. It's extraordinary. It's remarkable how strong you are. And I really, I'm pro. I. I just met you I'm proud of you and I love you. I'm just very. I'm just very. I'm in awe of you. I just think it's. I think you're extraordinary. I just need to tell you that. So, yeah, it's just the truth. It's just the truth. And by the way, all of you, what an example that if you've gone through something or you're going through something, that when you get to the other side, how qualified you will be to protect and help people just like you, and it'll be the work of your life. You'll be just like this woman. She lights up when that topic comes. There's a strength to her and a spirit that shifts when this topic comes up. And that's the one gift from all of this, I imagine, in her life. All right, last question. I want to ask you about kids as parents or aunties or uncles or big brother or big sister. If you were to give any of us advice, I mean, you were taken from your home. I mean, I don't. There's not a whole lot your family could have done any different. But are there things proactively, us as parents, grandparents, could, that you would recommend we do to, you know, create some level of greater safety for our children, whether that be online or in person type abuse that people suffer? What would you impart? You're obviously in this world all the time. What would you tell us?
- [58:53]
Elizabeth Smart
Love your kids unconditionally and make sure they know it then followed closely by lots of open communication.
- [59:03]
Ed Mylett
Do you do that? I mean, are you an open, you know, communicator with. With yours?
- [59:09]
Elizabeth Smart
I mean, I try. I'm not perfect. I do my best.
- [59:14]
Ed Mylett
Yeah. I think that your humility is. Just takes my breath away. Someone has gone through what you've gone through in your life. I can tell you one thing. I'll give you a compliment. I. You're exactly how I hoped you would be. You're kind and strong, but you're. You're on the other side of this in a dramatic way, and you've really used it to be a force for good in the world. And it's exactly what I would have hoped. And I'm really grateful that you were here today. I know when I'm doing an episode that's like one of the Alzheimer's. I just know I've been doing it long enough. I've done about 900 of them, and I know when I'm doing one, that's going to be like, echoing, you know, throughout the Internet and social media. And this will be one thanks to you, Elizabeth. So thank you. What do you want to tell us about the Smart foundation that we haven't said? Where can they go to find out more about it? I want to make sure we've talked about it, but where do they go to get some info?
- [60:10]
Elizabeth Smart
Yes. First of all, thank you. Thank you for all the kind words you've said. Elizabeth. Smart Foundation. We are online, Elizabeth. Smart foundation.org or on social media. You can just type in Elizabeth Smart Foundation. I'm sure it'll pop right up. There are so many things that I want to do. I mean, I feel like what. Some of the things we've talked about. Smart Defense. We have more programs, just more than that. That's what we mostly talked about today. But to learn more about them, please, please do. Please go to our website. Please check us out. There is so much more I still want to. To do. And we did talk a little bit about that today. Like intimacy versus versus rape. There is so much more I want to do. So please learn. Please have conversations in your own homes. Please become the kind of person that if anyone disclosed to you that you could sit there and listen to them, that you could sit there and be a support to them and that your first words are. Are not. Why didn't you do this? And that your first words instead are, I believe you. How can I. You. I'm here for you. I love you. Those are the kinds of words you should be responding with. And if we're all talking about this and we're all learning about this and we're all paying attention to this and standing up for those around us when we see something suspicious going on. Think of how much change we could actually create in this world. We could see the statistics drop, and wouldn't that be amazing? Wouldn't that be incredible?
- [61:51]
Ed Mylett
Yeah, it would be. And it'll happen. Because thanks to you, this one in three thing, I can't get out of my head. I cannot get that out of my head. So I have three sisters and a daughter. And so. Yeah, yeah, I. You got me there. Anyway, you let me know when we're done. Let me know how I can help. Okay? Let's just. I'm gonna have my producer connect with your team there, and we'll. We'll figure out how I can help. Okay, I would like to do that. All right, Elizabeth. Thank you for doing this, everybody. Share this. I mean, share it. Yeah. Share it with anyone who's gone through anything difficult. Is going through anything difficult? Anyone, anyone who's got children, anyone who's got a family, anybody that you know who may be suffering any type of abuse right now in any form, send this to them, please. All right. God bless you, everybody. Max out. This is the Ed Milan Show.