Michael Chandler (2:18)

True, true. Yeah. And I think it's. I mean, for me, people ask, they're always asking me about my opponent. My opponent, he's. He's this tall, he's got these attributes, he's got these accolades. And without sounding cocky, like I'm not, like I'm looking past the opponent, truthfully, I can tell you this with 100% certainty that I don't need to be. I don't need to train to beat that opponent. I just need to be the best version of myself that night inside the octagon. I need to be the Michael Chandler with zero hindrances, zero second guessing, zero fears, and only faith and excitement about becoming my best self. If I can get done with that fight, get my hand raised and have zero regrets about my performance, knowing that I performed at the highest level that I possibly could that night, then there's not a man on this planet that can beat me. And I truly believe that. So. And so my prayer before the fight isn't, God, give me the victory or God, let my opponent stumble. My prayer is, God, just let me perform like I trained. Let me perform in a manner that is consistent with the way that you see me, God, and that is consistent with my gifts and my abilities that you blessed me with. Because like I said, I truly believe that in that moment, if I'm inside that octagon and that cage door closes, if I perform at the BET at my best, I'm not going to lose. And this isn't like. And this isn't kind of the hoorah. Well, you gave it your best, so you, you really didn't lose. Even if you did lose. Yeah, this is this, you know, like they say, well, if you gave it your best, you didn't lose. You know, that's true in a lot of senses. But also, I'm more just saying that if I can go out there and get in that flow state, there's nobody that can beat me. And I truly believe that. So, so how do you get. How do you make sure that you perform that way? Well, you can't ever make sure with 100% certainty. We're going to have bad days, we're going to have off nights, we're going to have bad performances. What? But number one, never being afraid of having a bad performance. Number two, being okay with the uncertainty that's about to ensue. I mean, you can't really think of a career more volatile than mixed martial arts. Being inside of a cage, locked inside of a cage, being tied on tour, tornado. You have to be okay with the uncertainty that's about to happen. And for me, I always say, you know, win, lose or draw, I. I'm going to be okay because my God still loves me, my family still loves me, and I still love me. And the hardest thing was I always knew my God loved me. I always knew my family loved me. But that hardest part was, and I still love me. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But you have to be okay with the uncertainty that's about to happen.

Ed Mylett (4:53)

I talk about every area of life being willing to embrace uncertainty and run towards it. On the other side of uncertainty is everything you want, best relationship you ever had. There's no certainty to it, right? There's no certainty that at all. Any great victory, anything you've ever done, you have to go through the uncertainty barrier. Everyone's like your comfort zone. Forget all that comfort zone, you got to go through complete uncertainty. You, the other thing too, for me, I don't know if you relate to this or I'm just curious that I love me third one's my issue too. And I've gotten a lot better that over the years. And one of the reasons, I don't mean overly hokey, here I am with one of the toughest men in the world, but one of the reasons that I would not give myself love or affirmation or permission to like myself, even if I'm being completely candid, like actually like myself, just so everybody knows, is to me, I had to be perfect. And if I wasn't perfect, I wasn't worthy of really liking or loving myself. And perfect is a cop out. Standard, perfect is impossible. But I've kind of heard you talk about this a little bit too. This notion of the perfect fight or the perfect sparring session or the perfect husband. Right? The perfect man of faith. Well, you're going to miss that one every time. So if that's your standard, you have wired yourself for misery. And then it stumbles into, at least for me, kind of this cycle of lack of confidence because I'm not hitting the promise I made myself, which was perfection, because self confidence is keeping the promises you make to yourself. So I'm just curious how that plays with you 100%.

Michael Chandler (6:23)

And that's, you know, I think especially whenever you. And not to get overly, you know, overly spiritual about it, but when you, when you truly believe that God, you know, Rick Warren's purpose driven life, that's. That, that's what everybody wants, right? How do I find my purpose? Whenever you feel like you found your purpose, And I truly believe that mixed martial arts, being put on a platform through mixed martial arts is my purpose. So I found my purpose. So it's God ordained. So if it's God ordained, then, okay, I got to be perfect, right? Because this is the gift that I'm trying to give God and God deserves. We all know God deserves a perfect gift when really he's looking down on us saying, you're all. You're all flawed individuals. I made you perfect in the image of myself, but you are made perfect through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross, right? So we are striving for perfection. And that's really, truthfully, if I'm being honest, why my first loss happened. So really, I go out and, yes, and I win. I win my. I beat Eddie Alvarez. I become the number three guy in the entire world. Everybody's saying Michael Chandler is the next big thing. So immediately, okay, I'm the number three guy in the world. Everybody wants me to go win the UFC title when I'm done with my Bellator contract, media is talking about me. Award after award. You know, this guy's the next big thing. So what do I say in my human brain, okay, now I gotta be perfect. Right? Before, I was just trying to go. Before, I was just shooting off the cuff. I was working hard. I was doing things right. I was living. Living the champion lifestyle. But now that I am the champion, now I got to be perfect. So what did I do? Instead of. Instead of taking my training to the next level, it went down in the dumps. Because just as you said, every sparring session was another opportunity to be imperfect. You know, I could win four minutes and 58 seconds of a round, but it was that two seconds that I lost that told me in my mind I lost that round. I could have hit a guy a thousand times with the best combinations in the world, but I got popped once with a jab, and immediately my mind said, michael, you're not perfect yet. You know, I could lift a thousand pounds, but, well, Michael, you're not perfect because that guy over there can lift a thousand and two pounds, you know, So I gave. I started. I started living in this jail cell inside my brain of perfect. And there was. It was impossibly perfect. And it wasn't until my mentor, Chris Patterson, talked about, instead of trying to be perfect, why don't you just focus on success? So. Because success can be gained. 1%. 1. 1%. 1% every single day and over a long career. You know, I can joke about it now, but it took me 12 years to become an overnight success. Now, all of a sudden, I'm Michael Chandler, UFC lightweight, number four in the world, probably going to win the UFC title here in the next calendar year. But it took me 12 years to become this success named Michael Chandler. Right? So I just needed to start. Just stop putting so much pressure on myself to be perfect and just put the pressure on myself and the friendly pressure on myself to be above board, to be. To be excellent, but not be perfect. There's a lot of different things that we can strive for that are just below perfect, that allow you just enough grace, just enough. Just enough leeway to still love yourself through your trials, through your bad days. Because let's be honest, man, it doesn't matter. You speak to a lot of high performers, millionaires, billionaires, the people at the highest level. They have their bad days, they have their ups, and they have their downs. And it's in those downs, it's in those bad days where they can continue to motivate, continue to see through the mud, see through the muck, towards a brighter future, knowing that the sun did go down today, but it will rise again tomorrow, and our best day could be tomorrow, even if we had a bad day today.

Ed Mylett (9:52)

This is one of these shows, brother, I will listen to back several times. So one of the things that's really true is when I started to really work with what everyone would call higher elite performers or whatever it was, this is many, many years I come home and think to myself, man, these are very human beings. You know, like, I was struck by their humanity. I was struck by their frailties, I was struck by their. Some of their weaknesses, and it actually gave me hope. I think that's what you're doing right now. And we've all heard this thing like, comparison is just this deadly game to play compared with another person. Compare. The worst comparison is to perfection, because that's a standard you're going to miss every single time you've literally wired yourself for pain. I'm just curious about fighting in general. By the way, I love Chris Patterson. I just want to make sure I stick that in there. In fact, that's how you and I met. Let me ask you this question. I'm just curious. Is there fear before a fight for you? In other words, 10 minutes out, you're going to go in there. This is the thing about fighting that I think people just forget, because it almost looks like a video game when you're watching it on TV for guys, right? I've had the pleasure of Being in the cage a little bit myself. And so I know what it's like. Not like you do, but there's another man in there. You can't hide. They close the door, Michelle Waterson said on the show, you know, and there's you and another man. That's the ultimate form of combat. It's the ultimate form of you dealing with you. Ironically, as you said, do you have fear in those moments, or is there no fear because of confidence, because of faith, because of preparation, or what do you do with the fear if you do have it?

Michael Chandler (11:21)

You know, I actually, there is no fear of the physical. You know, could I get injured? Of course. Could I break a bone? Could I, you know, even worse, could I end up. Could, could tonight be the night that my career just ends? Career in the injury, of course those things could happen. But once again, as I was alluding to earlier, if you're afraid of that uncertainty that's about to happen, if you're, if you're afraid of that physical aspect of the fight, it's going to be tough because you're not going to, you're not going to be fighting in that flow state. You're not going to be fighting at your. At your top level. Me standing across a wrestling mat or standing across a cage from another man my size doesn't. Doesn't scare me. The biggest fears that I have are, you know, going out there and performing at a subpar level. And not just subpar, but, you know, a really bad level. You know, we've all had those moments where we, you know, you get back in your car after a meeting or for me, go back to the locker room after a fight and you just, you just take a deep breath and you take a step back and say, what just happened? That was, that was such a bad performance. And I've had those. And those are the worst. That's the worst feeling in the entire world because for a mixed martial artist, we only get two, maybe three opportunities a year to showcase our skills in a cage in front of millions of people. So there's so much riding on that one performance. But I've gotten to the point where once again, going back to, no matter what, win, lose or draw, my God still loves me, my family still loves me, and I still love me. And because I've gotten to that point, knowing that, once again, leaning on the fact that I'm not going to be perfect, just trying to be successful, you know, if I would have hang my hat, hung my hat on the couple of losses that I had in my past, I never would have got here to become the overnight success who is Michael Chandler in the ufc.

Ed Mylett (13:06)

Right.

Michael Chandler (13:06)

You know, it took a. Took a long time for me to get here, but I'm a battle hardened veteran. I was galvanized by the road that I took. You know, I was, I was a new name to a lot of people when I made my UFC debut back in January at UFC 257. But I was not a new name to, to the true MMA fans. I was not a new mixed martial artist, a new professional fighter. For me, all roads had led to, to me being backstage at that UFC 257. But it's almost a weird parallel because before I felt like I always had something to lose. When I was fighting in Bellator, I was fighting a lot of guys who I was supposed to be in the first round. There was almost, there was almost no way to win or it be a positive outcome unless I went out there and finished somebody in the first round. And you're talking about fighting, fighting world class. They're still world class athletes. They still train every single day. They're still across the cage where you want to rip your head off, just like you want to do the same. But I was always fighting guys who for the most part, were ranked below me.

Ed Mylett (14:04)

Yeah.

Michael Chandler (14:04)

And I had to go out there and have a dominant performance so I could go out there and if I beat someone in the second round, people would always say, well, you should have been in the first round. You're Michael Chandler. You're supposed to be that much better than them. Whereas this was also a beautiful thing at UFC 257, I was fighting Dan Hooker, the number five, number six guy in the world. I had nothing to lose, you know, so it was a. That was a beautiful feeling, having nothing to lose, because I would venture to say that the guy the underdog is in is so in such more of an advantageous situation because they have nothing to lose compared to the guy who is on top, who has everything to lose every single time he steps into an arena. And I got, I got to that point at UFC 257, and luckily for me, I'm going to be an underdog next fight. Probably an underdog the next fight. So you're going to see the best version of myself for sure the next couple of fights.

Ed Mylett (14:48)

I was going to say to you, I want you to remind yourself of that, no matter what situation you're in, because you're exactly right. In every situation, it's the illusion of loss that causes us to underperform. So if you can always not give yourself this bogus illusion of loss, even if you're the world champion in anything you do, even if you're the best. When I'm on a speaking ticket and there's 10 other speakers, but everyone maybe assumes in that case potentially I should dominate that stage when I speak, I don't let myself think that there's an illusion of loss coming if someone, if I don't live up to my game because that's when I slip that idea, that subpar fight. I just had a subpar engagement recently. But for me, every time I've had one of those what just happened moments, if I'm really self reflective and it's really self reflection, there was something in my preparation that I could have done better there. It's always back to me. Like you said earlier, it's not my opponent, especially in business, it's always preparation. How much of your confidence and when in this particular situation, there were a couple things where I said to myself, literally what just happened, no joke. And by the time I got on the plane to come home, I'm like, I know exactly what happened. I'm BSing myself. Here's what happened. I took a little bit for granted. This one area, that's my big strength. I didn't need to work on that preparing for this. Turns out I did right. And so is that for you usually the answer to what just happened and how much of your confidence is linked to preparation.

Michael Chandler (16:14)

Being being the small guy from the small town who had to always fight and scrap and claw his way to be being seen by the coaches or being seen by, by the team. I had to be the hardest worker in the room. You know, I talk about the walk on mentality. You know, I walked on to the University of Missouri, there were 16 guys in my, in my, in my class. Only two of us ended up becoming all Americans. And one of them was going to become an all American. His name was Raymond Jordan. He was a state champion from New Bern, North Carolina. He was my roommate. He was going, he was destined for big things. He was full ride scholarship guy. But I was the walk on guy. I was the guy who the coaches didn't look at for a whole year, didn't say a word to for the whole year. So you know, me being the naive young guy, I had to outwork everybody. I was the first one at practice, I was the last one to leave. I was putting in the extra reps and, and although that might, might sound A little bit, I guess, maybe insecure to a lot of, maybe people listening right now. You still have to have that walk on mentality, that mentality that says even though I've gotten to where I am now, even though there's a couple zeros in my bank account, even though I got this name, even though I have this account, even though I have this level of success, I have this level of platform, you still have to be working every single day like you're a walk on. So for me, my preparation is the most important part. I know for a fact that if I step inside the cage and there is doubts about my preparation, I'm never ever going to perform at a, at the highest level. Now I might win the fight still, I might win the contest, so to speak, but there still will be some self reflecting of you got kind of lucky because you slacked in this area, you slacked in that area. And that's I think what a lot of high achievers do. They, they hold themselves to a higher standard. Not the perfection standard. That's where you fall into that valley of trying to be too perfect, but that level of excellence. Am I excellent in all these areas that I need to be excellent in? And if that answer is no, then chances are you're going to be in a spot that you're leaving yourself open to having failures and having loss.

Ed Mylett (18:25)

I just think it's amazing that when you walk into an octagon, you walk into the cage. By the way, I'm going to take this from you myself. God still loves me, my family still loves me, I still love me. Everybody listening to the show should be writing that down or watching the show. That'll be a mantra you give yourself the gift of on a very regular basis. What a beautiful reminder as you're going into combat. It's just amazing. That's what you're saying to yourself. Okay, isn't it easy once you stop doing something to realize, oh, that was working and you don't realize it until you've stopped. And so if you've been looking for something easy to stick with that actually makes you feel better, this might be for you when you look. What's an imate's daily ultimate essentials Drink. It brings together 92 high quality nutrients. What's wild is it actually replaces 16 different supplements so you don't have to juggle all these pills and stuff. You get it in one IM8 drink. So give your body what it deserves with IM8. Go to IM8Health.com ED and use code ED for a free welcome kit five free travel satchels plus 10% off your order. Seriously, this is one of those offers you'll wish you jumped on sooner. That's im8health.com ed and use code ED for a free welcome kit five free travel satchels plus 10% off your order. Im8health.com ed code ED these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administrations. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Abercrombie knows how denim should fit and feel, and this year is about curating a denim collection that carries your closet head straight to Abercrombie's Baggy and Ultra Baggy Fits. These are the pairs that turn any tee or shirt into a full outfit. All of their jeans come in classic fit with select jeans available in Athletic Fit designed for guys who want more room in the thigh Shop Abercrombie Denim in the app online and in stores Nicole When I look at you and I, you know, I'm around a lot of athletes, I see a superior physical specimen. And even as you've gotten older, I look at you six, seven years ago, I look at a dude. Now this is a superior physical specimen. And I for a lot of my self confidence just comes from my physicality. I'm not the same as you, obviously, but I think self confidence can come from moving your body. It's one of the first places everybody listening or watching this can transform their self confidence because it's something you can control. You can't control a sales call or a close or the amount of money you've got or even how someone's treating you in a relationship. Is there something specific you've done the last two or three years? Is it, is it heavier lifting? Is it incorporating more weights? Is it, you know, like in Brady's case, it's all this plyometric stuff he's doing to be more pliable. What is it for you that's made you, I mean, to me, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you were physically better before, but you look physically better to me now. Am I right about that? And what's the difference?

Michael Chandler (21:17)

I think you are right about that. I think, I think I when I got into the sport, I was already going to be more athletic or stronger physically than a lot of people because of my, my wrestling background. Division 1 Wrestling, in my opinion, is the hardest, most physically demanding sport in the entire world. So when I was going to come from Division 1 wrestling into the sport of mixed martial arts, where these guys have just been training mixed martial arts. I knew for sure I was going to be faster than them, stronger than them. I wasn't going to have great striking, I wasn't going to have great submissions or submission defense necessarily, but I was going to be a good athlete coming from wrestling. Since then, I've always trained to become the best athlete I can possibly be. And it was actually interesting that you say that because there was a young football player from MTSU here in Nashville. I was training with my trainer and he asked my trainer, he said, hey, Jay Holm, if you've never fought before, how do you train a fighter? And I love that. I heard it because I wanted to hear his, his, his, his response. And his response was, well, we're just training to become a better athlete. Because I say if I can be the better athlete in, in the cage that night, it might not win me the fight for sure, but it will put me head and shoulders above my opponent when it comes to speed, quickness, changing angles, closing the distance, strength, picking a guy up, putting him down, and cardio. The only one who is undefeated is Father Time. You know, so eventually there will come a time when that clock ticks for the last time and okay, it's time for me to be done fighting. I just don't have it anymore. So the more I can turn back the hands of time by doing explosive, more plyometric movements, the better and taking care of my body, you know, I, it'd be crazy. I've been training now for 12 years and probably only about the last five or six years have I been doing body work. Every single, every single week, I get a, I get body work by a massage therapist, a, a highly knowledgeable physio body worker who understands the body. And I lived in back pain for a really long time and I discovered a product called the Pso Rite. Realized my psoas, my psoas muscle from running, jumping, kicking, doing all these things was hindering me physically. And also I just woke up in pain every single day. So I had low back pain at all times. So I started lengthening my psoas. You got a call, Michael, so. Right, okay. PSO R I T E. I'll send you a few of them because I believe you've heard David Goggins talk about it. I actually spoke about it on the Joe Rogan podcast because everybody. You speak to anybody, what's the one thing that hurts everybody? Their back always hurts. And I think right now, I'm sitting at a desk right now in this chair and my psoas is being crunched down and God didn't design our bodies to sit for the crazy amount of hours that we do. Or if you're sitting in, you know, beautiful Southern California traffic, you know, you're sitting in your car, it doesn't matter how nice your car is and how beautiful the weather is on the seats, you're still sitting down in a non optimal position.

Ed Mylett (24:09)

I think when it's affordable, people need to investigate more of this bodywork stuff. I've neglected that all my life. I've done pretty good with nutrition. I've trained really hard. I've not done enough bodywork. And I know that there's a dollar amount, although I have sponsors on my show with little different gadgets and different things that do help you with that. I'm not plugging the sponsor. I'm just telling you guys the theragun is something that's really made a difference for me. And I'm not plugging the product. I'm just saying that's a form of body work. The other thing I want to just say to everybody too, this is one of my favorite conversations of all time, bro, which I knew it would be, but the fact that you define yourself as an athlete as much as you do a fighter. And I just want all the business people or moms or dads out there. What if one of the definitions, one of the terms you gave yourself is you were an athlete. You can be an athlete at any age. I actually call myself that. Like it's one of the words I use in my affirmations is I'm an athlete. I think about that. I think that way. I think more athletes are attempting to become business people. If you look at the LeBron James and the Michael Chandlers and the Tom Brady's are good examples of they're becoming business people. More business people need to become athletes. That's the future, that's the present of where we are. So totally agree with you on that. Okay. Got to ask you about maybe my favorite thing I wanted to talk to you about all the time that we've known one another. And by the way, we're going a little longer, brother. Sorry. It's just so good.

Michael Chandler (25:21)

I love it.

Ed Mylett (25:22)

But the last part I want to ask you about is your faith. Because you're a sinner, saved by the grace of God, just like I am. I don't want anybody thinking either one of us are perfect people because we're not. And neither one of us have all the answers. I don't. People say all the time. You just got all the answers that I said, no, I have all the mistakes and I can save you on your life with all the mistakes I've made. More than those, more than I, just some, you know, you know, the Yoda of answers. But my faith has been central in my life. It's given me the most comfort. I love that the first thing you say is, God still loves me. How important is that to you in your life overall, pre and post your fight career? I'm just curious.

Michael Chandler (26:00)

I mean, it's the most important part because it's the wellspring by which everything else flows from. You know, I think the overarching theme of this entire talk that we've had been having, even though we haven't even said the words, the actual word, too much. But the word is gratitude. You know, operating in gratitude, realizing the gifts that I've been given, realizing that to give anything less than my best every single day is to sacrifice these amazing life that God has given me. Man, I got every single thing. I don't have a lot, but I'm not missing a dang thing, you know, I'm not missing a thing in my life that I need. And all of that is by the grace of God, all of that is when I think about the young Michael Chandler. Coming from High Ridge, Missouri. Got every single person, every single setback, every single up, every single down, every single door, door that stayed closed, every closed, every single door that opened. God had me in the palm of his hand all the way through and the entire time. And if you can, and I do, do I do this often too? Even just visualizing the hand of God, it looks just like my hand, right? Because we were made in the image of an almighty God. But I see myself, the young Michael Chandler, the middle school Michael Chandler, the high school Michael Chandler who had all his doubts and insecurities. And then the high school, the college and high school wrestler Michael Chandler who just wanted to win medals and wanted to put on, put on the top of that podium. And then now, the fighter Michael Chandler, the father, Michael Chandler, the husband Michael Chandler. All of these things I can see, and I can see him all the way through my entire life knowing that there's so much comfort and there's so much rest in God having me in the palm of his hand. And it's, it's, it's such a humbling feeling. And I think, I think when you really pull yourself back from a 30,000 foot view of man, there's been some tough times and man, there's been some. Some tears shed, and, man, there's been a lot of dark, you know, sleepless nights, and there's been. Been some rough roadblocks, but all of Those things, Romans 8, 28, everything worked out for the good of his people, you know, and it's as you said, I by no means am any better than you or anybody else listening, but we are sinners saved by the grace of God. And it's that humbling feeling of knowing that you don't get what you do deserve, and you do get what you don't deserve every single day and every single season, and now arguably, you know, every single thing. I've accomplished so many of the things that I wanted to set out to accomplish, and I still have so many things left to accomplish, and all of them are tied to my faith and. And a faith in an almighty God who is merciful enough to see me through the tough times, and he is gracious enough to continue to bless me even when I look and say, man, how the heck did this work out for me? You know? And it is just such a beautiful thing. And I am just so grateful for the opportunity that I have been given. And I feel like I can take this thing to the top only because I live in a constant state of gratitude. And truthfully, if I can just help other people live with a little bit more gratitude, knowing that their best days and their blessed days are out ahead of them. Because a guy like me, who comes from a small town, who I was taught to do small things, that somehow I've touched every. Every corner of the globe somehow, because God's given me some amazing gifts that. That hopefully a few people can be inspired by my story. And all of it, all of it ties back to my faith.

Ed Mylett (29:26)

I'm so grateful for you, bro. And I'm really proud of you. This has been an absolutely remarkable conversation. I knew that when you and I got together and did this in front of everybody that it would be special. But I mean this. I just want you to know I am so proud of you. I am so grateful for you. I am grateful that I got to share this man with the millions of people that I love so much in my audience. I started out by saying that not only are you a special athlete, but you are a special man. And everybody saw that on full display today. Your calling is even beyond fighting. It is this. It's this platform. It's going to get bigger and bigger and bigger, and then someday it's going to be all of this based on that platform. But you stepped into a state today, brother. That was a championship level state. And so thank you, man. Very short intermission here folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. Hey everybody. Ed Mylett. I'm so excited to be back with you today with another program on the Max out show. We bring you people all the time that have maxed out areas of their life that are the best in the world. And the gentleman to my left, the reason I've been after him to do this show for so long is because I think he's maxing out multiple areas of his life. The obvious area is that this is one of the greatest boxers of the last two decades and you might even argue in the history of the sport. And so the gentleman on my left here is retired this last year to be a year old ago this week. 32 0. 320 has not lost a fight since he was 14 years old and was an Olympic gold medalist, went on to win the super six tournament in the super middleweight division and was a light heavyweight champion of the world. And so this is one of the greatest athletes, but I think one of the great men in the United States. So Andre Ward, thank you for being here today.

Andre Ward (31:13)

Thanks for having me.

Ed Mylett (31:14)

This is, this is going to be awesome. So I wish as some interviews, I wish we were recording the pre interview because it's been. It's been so good. So thank you so much, man.

Andre Ward (31:22)

I'm happy to be here.

Ed Mylett (31:23)

Talk just for a second. I'm just curious because I didn't know I'd go there. Virgil, did he play a role in your life in any other way other than boxing in terms of your confidence or any of that other stuff? Even your demeanor to some extent. And watching him in interviews, he's got sort of a. I'm sure he burns rages on the inside, but he's got kind of a cool, calm exterior about him that I see in you too. Go ahead and speak to that.

Andre Ward (31:46)

No, I mean I have a lot of my father in me and I also have a lot of. A lot of verge in me. It's hard not to have their imprint on me, you know, when I've been around them and spent so much time, you know, we spent so much time together. And that again, that's probably something. Throughout the course of my life as a fighter and just as a man that has separated me is like they came, you know, Virgil, my dad came from the old school. Like they didn't come in the social media era where, you know, a lot of athletes today, they'll show you the hard work and you really don't know how much work they're put really putting in behind the scenes. Like we really got it the hard way. And one thing that they always like, we didn't just go to the gym and work the body. They always were working my mind whether I was on my way to a run that morning and didn't really want to be there and was dragging, getting ready as an 1112 year old kid or, or going to a big tournament where I wasn't touted to really do anything. Like the mental reps, him being in my ear year after year, day after day telling me, listen son, you're meant to be here. I'll give you an example. Athens, Greece in 2004 had not fought the upper echelon of international competition. I'd fought Puerto Rico, Mexico, but never the Cubans, never the Russians. Those were the countries that dominated boxing.

Ed Mylett (33:03)

They were really professional boxers in the amateur ranks.

Andre Ward (33:06)

They do it full time and most of the time, unless they come over to America, they don't turn pro.

Ed Mylett (33:13)

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Andre Ward (34:08)

A smaller guy I fought at 178 pounds. Should have been at the lower weight class of 165 pounds. But I had a cousin that during the Olympic trials was trying to make it. I said okay, I don't want us to fight. I think I'm gonna grow anyway, so.

Ed Mylett (34:22)

Let me go up. Are you kidding me? You took a different weight class.

Andre Ward (34:25)

I didn't grow like I was like I thought I was. Okay, so I'm weighing in every morning at 170, 171, maybe 72. On a good day, I'm drinking waters and Gatorades Power Raise just to, just to be respectable. When I get on the scales and the weight master, they would look at me and say, oh, you're little, you're small, you should be lower. And I just kind of point to the sky. I had a burner phone that they gave us and Verge had a burner phone and he would just call me and he'd stay in my ear. Look, son, you're here for a reason. God didn't bring you this far for nothing. And those types of words like, would just, like, just cause me to be emboldened. You know, when we first got the draw and I found out what bracket I was in, I got the toughest bracket.

Michael Chandler (35:13)

Yes.

Andre Ward (35:13)

Yanny Macarenko, the two time world champion from Russia, was going to be my second fight. If I won my first fight. And everybody's kind of like, you know, everybody on the US Team was like, oh my God, you know, act like it was a death. Like, man, Drake got a tough draw and this and that and versus that's the way it's supposed to be. That mentality that he had, that those types of words, that type of faith and belief has been something that has been ingrained in me, instilled in me, drilled in me since I've been a kid.

Ed Mylett (35:38)

Wow, that's gold. A couple gold things. One is just having somebody in your life that you can find and seek out. That's feeding you all of these, you know, these beliefs, this confidence you have finding that mentor in your life. And then also the part that you shared earlier, I just want to make sure we reiterate too, about if your dad had it his way in the very beginning, you probably wouldn't have even been boxing. And that's true for me in my career. I think if my family had it their way in the very beginning, I'd have been working at, you know, some employee job and paying my bills. And so, so many of you out there listen to these voices you have in your family, these people who love you, but they don't necessarily have the vision or the wisdom to know exactly where you're supposed to go in your life. Thank God that you got Virgil and your own beliefs in yourself. That was A great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back to the program, everybody. I'm so fired up today. I have some man I've admired from a distance for so many years. He is one of the great leaders in American sports. He just is. And he does it with a style that is all his own, and it's one that I've admired from a distance. Some of our mutual friends have confirmed what a good man he is for me. And let me tell you, 143 while he's been at Clemson as the head football coach there. But he started to get better and better and better. Last three years, only lost three games. Undefeated in 2018, two national championships. The list goes on and on. And this is from a guy who was a walk on at Alabama, by the way, which is even more ironic that you went to Alabama, now you coach at Clemson. But I am honored to have Dabo Sweeney on the program today. Coach, thank you for being here.

Dabo Sweeney (37:12)

Thank you, Ed. It's good to be with you, man. This is what a great, great, great treat to be on this podcast or show and opportunity to meet you.

Ed Mylett (37:24)

Yeah, my pleasure, Coach. So we're gonna go all over the place. We're gonna talk leadership, recruiting culture, all these different things. But as I was reading about you, you know, you walked on in college and then you end up, you win a national championship as a player, too. A lot of people don't know that. So you've done a lot of winning in your life, but you get this job. And I heard you say that they rated you a D higher because you were like the interim coach. But is this true? Because I want everyone to get this. A lot of you that are listening as you're entrepreneurs, your leaders, maybe you're a little bit young in some cases, too. This man was 38 years old when he takes over this program. Is it true that when they hired you, you went like, in, literally into a closet, like a physical closet, and were talking to yourself? Is that actually true?

Dabo Sweeney (38:06)

That is true. So what happened is I just came to work on October 13, 2008. I was an assistant in my sixth year here as an assistant. And middle of the season, three and three, we were coming off a tough loss, and they decided to make a change at head coach, the head coach position. And, you know, I had no, really, I mean, absolutely no idea we had a 7am staff meeting that morning and it was actually my day to do the devotion. Kind of rotates around the room and just happened to be my day that day. And it was just business as usual.

Ed Mylett (38:46)

It was a Monday.

Dabo Sweeney (38:46)

We were going to play Georgia Tech that weekend and had our staff meeting like we always do, went on in our offensive meetings. I was an offensive coach. And so we're in our planning and about mid morning, about 10:30 or so, the operations guy walks in and says, hey, Coach Bowden needs to see the whole staff in the staff room. Well, that never happens. We had already had staff meeting that morning, so it was really kind of odd. So we all got in there, knew something was going on. He walks in and he basically just said, you know, he was. Didn't have a lot of words. He just said, you know, how much he appreciated us. And hey, this is something that's gonna happen. We're gonna make it. They're gonna make a change. And he said, you know, hey, look, I'm good. He said, I just, you know, worry about all you guys. I'm gonna visit with you individually in due time. But right now the AD wants to step in and say a few words. So you're sitting there, you know, you got a lot going through your mind. I'm a young guy, I got young family, you know, people going on AD steps in. AD was, was not a man of many words either. Old school guy from Arkansas, he basically just said, hey, look, you know, this isn't something that I wanted to happen. But he did tell Coach Bowden he was going to make a change at the end of the year regardless of what happened. And Coach Bowden, they revisited later on that morning and said, you know what, this is going to be a negative seven weeks. You know, why don't we just make a change here and let's let Dabo be the interim and Coach Bowden, the head coach. He kind of, you know, said, hey, would you consider Dabo being the interim? And AD said, absolutely. He said, you know, and so anyway, next thing you know, he walks in and he says, hey, here's what's happening. You know, I know it's a tough business. I expect you all to just continue to do your job. We got a bunch of kids counting on us. And. And he said, dabo, you're now the head coach and I need to see you in my office in five minutes. And walked out. And so, you know, he walks out, we're in there. It was this weird moment, kind of slamming pens and notebooks. And then all of a sudden, it got dead quiet and everybody in the room's looking at me. I mean, I'm in sweatpants. I mean, Mondays are long days in our world. And. And just, you know, I didn't really know what to say, but it was just. I mean, I was like having an out of body experience, you know, But I just said, you know what? Hey, guys, you know, look, let me go meet with him. We'll get back together in a little bit. I didn't really know what to say. I went and got. Went to my office and grabbed a notebook and pen, called my wife on the way to his office, said, hey, you know, we just got let go. They just fired Tommy. Oh, my God. I said, oh, it gets worse. I'm the interim. And I said, I don't know when I'll talk to you, Kath. So I go around, take a deep breath. I walk in his. In his office, and I really went in with the mindset of, this is going to be a miserable. We had six games left and an open date. So seven weeks. This is going to be a miserable seven weeks, you know, and. But I'm thinking, he's probably going to tell me, hey, do a good job. I'll try to get the next guy to keep you or something, you know, along those lines. But just the opposite happened. There's such great lessons that came out of that that I still tell people to this day when I go speak. So I walk in this man's office and I sit down and he looks at me and he said. He said, dabo, let me tell you something. I know you're in a tough spot here. He goes, but here's what I want you to know. And he kind of told me how it all kind of came about. He goes, but here's where we are. He said, for the next seven weeks, I want you to be the head coach. I don't want you to be the interim head coach for the next seven weeks. I want you to do whatever you think you need to do to fix us. He said, if you need to fire the whole staff, fire the whole staff. He said, whatever you think you need to do for the next seven weeks, you have my full support. That was a mistake on his part, okay? But this is what he tells me. And then he goes. He said, for five and a half years, I've watched you. I've watched how you've led your players, how you've handled yourself in the community. I watch you with your family. He said, I see these kids in your office. I've seen how you handle discipline and recruiting. And he said, dabo, I'm gonna be honest with you. I've done this a long time. He said, I personally, he said, I think you're what we need here at Clemson.

Terrell Owens (43:02)

He goes.

Dabo Sweeney (43:03)

He goes, so what I want you to know is when this thing's over, you're going to get an interview for the job. He said. He goes, whether you win them all or lose them all, he said, I'm gonna give you an interview for this job. He goes, now, I'm gonna hire the best coach, and I'm gonna go all over. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna hire the best coach. He goes, but I'll say it again. I think you're what we need at Clemson. He goes, it sure would help if you could win a few ball games. And then he goes. And then he kind of sits back. He says, you got any questions? And I'm like, I mean, my mind, my whole mind. So now my mind is racing. So I leaned up and I said, so. So you're, you know. I said, well, I appreciate that. And I said, you're telling me that, like, I can be the head coach. And for seven weeks. He said, I'm telling you whatever you think we need to do, you need to do to fix us. You got my full support. And I'm like. And I. And so I walked out of this office, and I've had a notepad, and my mind is racing, and I, you know, because I went in there with one mindset, and I came out with a different mindset. And the lesson that I got from that was, number one, you never know who's watching. So just be great at whatever you do, you know? I mean, whatever it is you're doing, just be great at it. So many people, especially in this business, they're chasing things. They want this title or they're this and that. And the grass is green where you're watering it, right? You know, just be great where you are. Just be great where your feet are bloom, where you're planted, is what I always say. You don't know who's watching. But I know this. If you're great at what you do, people will notice that.

Ed Mylett (44:44)

Amen.

Dabo Sweeney (44:45)

That was a lesson. And I learned that as a player. Same thing happened to me as a player. A sophomore, I'm a walk on. I come to a Tuesday practice, boom. They say, hey, we're going to give you a shot, you know, And I Didn't even know he was paying attention. Next thing you know, I let her. Three years, I get a scholarship, win a national championship. But the second part of that lesson is you got to be prepared for your opportunity. You know, you got to be prepared for your opportunity. You may not ever get it, but. But right. Better be prepared, you know?

Ed Mylett (45:14)

Anyway, so what did you do, Coach, to be prepared? Like, you on the shoulder. You're ready. Did you think you were ready?

Dabo Sweeney (45:21)

Absolutely. So to answer that. So when I walked out of there, I went in a closet. I literally. I went in like a.

Ed Mylett (45:27)

That's a true story.

Dabo Sweeney (45:28)

Half janitor closet, half vent. And I just closed the door, and I just sat in there and for 45 minutes, I just started writing. I just started writing, and I was all over the place. You know, I'm thinking recruiting, I'm thinking discipline, how I want to change practice. What would I want to do this week? How am I going to meet with the team? I got to meet with the staff. Is there anybody I need to make a change with? You know, I'm going to run the offense. I'm going to call. You know, I had all these things going on, and I'm just scribbling 100 things, you know, for that moment.

Ed Mylett (45:56)

All right?

Dabo Sweeney (45:57)

But as I. And so. So I go through that. But the second part of it is, from the time I got into coaching in 1993, I was preparing to be a head coach. All right? I didn't know if I'd ever get a chance to be a head coach, but I was just. I love what I do. I love what I was doing. I love my. I mean, I just. Trying to be the best at whatever it was. But I started kind of building a book, started putting a head coach book together in 19. I mean, literally right out of the gate, things I liked, things I didn't like, you know, academic stuff, philosophy of offense, philosophy of defense, philosophy of recruiting, philosophy of special teams. You know, who I would want to hire, you know, what would be my staff expectation, you know, whatever, how I would run practice, you know, And I started putting all this. Just building this all over the years. And all through the years, I'd. Oh, man, I like that. Throw it in the book. Or, you know, a lot of times. So I coached eight years at Alabama. When I finished playing, I played five, Coached eight. And a lot of times we learn more from the bad than we do the good, you know, and that's called experience. You know, when we touch that hot stove and we get that big, you Know, we learn, right? Yes, but the wise man learns from other people's experiences, so we all learn from our own. That's just life. But, man, I just spent a lot of time learning from other people, and I do that with my players to this. To this day, I send them stuff from all over the country all the time, you know, whether it's something good or something bad, you know, to learn from others. And so I just started going through things, and I spent the first seven years. I spent all seven years of Coach Stalin's career at Alabama with him. And then all of a sudden, I start working for other people, getting exposed to different things, and I started going up. Well, now I know why he did it that way, you know, and so I started having things reinforced. And then I started, you know, growing into my own as far as my beliefs, my philosophy, and I started putting all this together. And what happened to me, this was a great, great turning point for me. In 2000, I think it was 2006, they were starting a football program at the University of South Alabama, the Jaguars down in Mobile. And they're. They're a good program, but they were starting football there, and they reached out to me to come interview for the job. And I'm like, you know what? You know what? And it was, to be quite honest with you, and I only told this to my wife. If I had gotten the job, I wouldn't have taken it. But I told Kath, I said, you know what? Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna prepare for this job like it's the University of Alabama, like it's the job. And so it forced me to take all those years of stuff, and I put it together, and I organized, and I went after that job like it was the greatest job. I mean, I had Jaguar Nation. We're fixing to rule the world, man. I had everything in there. And so I had. I was prepared and, you know, and I finished, like, second or third on the job. They didn't offer me the job, but. But I finished second or third on the job, but I really wouldn't have taken if they'd offered it, but it was such a great process. And so all of a sudden, two years later, I'm the interim head coach at Clemson. And so when I'm getting an interview, so I'm. I'm in the middle of the season. I'm in chaos. I'm making changes. I got all this stuff going on, and. But when that season was over, you know what I did? I walked In I had the president, I had the ad, the assistant, and I had them all. And I say, hey, this is who I am. This is what we're going to be. This is how we're. This is what we're going to do. This is what our philosophy is. This is how we're going to run the program. This is the staff I want to hire. This is, you know, our discipline policy. This is what I believe in. And, you know, bam, here we go.

Ed Mylett (49:43)

That, to me, is like, coach, I feel like we just did the whole show. Like, I hope everybody got this and goes all the way back. All this stuff about blooming where you're planted, the grass is greener where you water it. I've actually never heard it said that way before. But this idea that he was blooming where he was planted, being the best and great at what he did, but preparing for the future all the time, it's amazing to me. Even entrepreneurs that even will listen to the show, they'll write down little keys. But are you watching how the guest says it, how they phrase it, how they position it, how they tell a story, how I do it. Where you work right now, if you're an employee somewhere, are you prepping to be a business owner someday? Studying what works and what you said, too, about what doesn't work, Are you keeping that binder that Coach kept of keeping these notes? And experience allows you to anticipate, too. If you don't have experience, I think you're constantly reacting.

Dabo Sweeney (50:27)

Yes.

Ed Mylett (50:27)

And I think what happened was when you got this job, a lot of guys get that opportunity. They didn't prepare like you. Now they're just reacting. Recruiting this problem, the boosters, we just had this loss. Oh, my gosh, our center's hurt, and they're reacting all the time. This allowed you, I think. Would you agree with me, Coach, that preparation allows you to anticipate situations sometimes that you wouldn't get if you weren't prepared.

Dabo Sweeney (50:46)

You got a plan. You know, Abraham, that one of my favorite quotes from Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln was, if you. Abraham Lincoln said, you give him six hours to chop down a tree, he's going to spend the first four hours sharpening the axe. You know, I mean, it's all about preparation. It's just in my world and what we do, we only play about 3% of the time. We prepare 97% of the time. But it's what you're doing when nobody's watching, that's what separates people. You know, you didn't get here. I don't know your whole background, but I guarantee you didn't get here doing this show. You didn't just show up. I mean, it's what you're doing. Championships are won when nobody's watching. They're. When the stands are empty. And it's the same thing with people. Champions are made when what you do when nobody's watching, you know, so it's that 97% of the time, you know, we all work, we have jobs, but it is all about preparation and having a plan, and so having a vision, being able to articulate that vision. You're going to deal with young people today. Number one, they better know that you care. Number two, you better be able to communicate why. All right? And so. And you've got to be able to articulate a vision and get people to buy in and get behind that. I don't care if you're running a company or whatever it is. But the other key thing, this is very important because, you know, especially in my world, and I deal with a lot of young people and I deal with a lot of young coaches now, you know, and I've been. I've been an 18 to 22 year old, and I have a PhD in 18 to 22 year olds because I've spent my entire life with that group.

Ed Mylett (52:15)

My whole life.

Dabo Sweeney (52:16)

In fact. I was at a convention a couple years ago and I had this young couple, young guys. I'm going up. We were in Louisville, and I'm going up to. Going back to my hotel room, and I'm standing over by the elevator, and these couple of these young guys came up to me. They were like, GA's at grad assistants somewhere. I don't know if they were at Baylor or where, some school. And they came up to me, coach me, coach me. You know, just wanted to introduce himself. Nice to meet you guys. And I'm literally standing there at the elevator and they're like. They're like, you know, Coach Sweeney, listen, we just, you know, we just want to, you know, they wanted me to give them like, you know, 30 years of stuff and knowledge and in a minute here. And they want to go. They want to go from GA to head coach.

Ed Mylett (52:58)

And I.

Dabo Sweeney (52:59)

And I just. And they'd listen. I said, well, here's. Here's what I would tell you guys, all right? And it's exactly what I just said. I said, be great at whatever you're doing. If you're the GA, be the best GA in the history of GA's. If your job's to go get the coffee, man. You bring the best coffee that anybody's ever. You get that coffee, man. Everybody's going, manage. You get that? This guy's unbelievable. All right? People notice that. I said, I can't tell you how many people I've hired that they don't have some fancy resume. What they got is they got an unbelievable work ethic and attention to detail, and they're just so focused being great at what they're doing. They don't get distracted. So that's number one.

Sean Casey (53:33)

Prepare.

Dabo Sweeney (53:34)

But you need to hear me on this, guys. I'm about to get on this elevator, and I'm going to hit 14 because I'm on the 14th floor, and when the doors open, I'm on the 14th floor. Well, let me tell you this. You got to take the steps, all right? There's no elevator to being a head coach. There's no elevator to being the CEO. There's no elevator to greatness. You got to put the work in and take the steps, period. And you know what? Enjoy it. Yeah, enjoy it. It's not about. Because I've been to the top. I tell our guys all the time, I've been to the mountaintop, and it's awesome. We love it. We climb a mountain every year at Clemson. That's kind of our thing. You know how you climb mountain one step at a time.

Ed Mylett (54:14)

We love that.

Dabo Sweeney (54:14)

And we start out base camp, you know, and the top of the mountain is awesome, but that's not what it's all about. That's just a moment. What you will cherish more than anything is the journey that it took to get there. Like, man, what it took to get there, the people you were with, the relationships that you developed along the way, the failures that you had, the mistakes that you made that you learned from, that you grew from, that's what you cherish more than anything. Everybody looks and they see the grand moments, you know, Tom Brady winning a Super Bowl. That's great. You know what Tom Brady's going to remember more than anything, man? Those practices, you know, getting together with the guys, the bus rides, the plane rides, the. When nobody's watching. The preparation. That's what it takes.

Ed Mylett (55:00)

I'm getting goosebumps, y'. All. Like, you gotta fall in love with that.

Dabo Sweeney (55:03)

You gotta embrace the suck, right? There's a lot of it that just sucks. And you gotta. You gotta fall in love with that part. If you're gonna. If you're gonna, you know, do anything great in life, it's not gonna just happen. So the preparation and falling in love with the preparation. All the great players that I've been around, that's what separates them. They love the preparation. Everybody loves to play. Yeah, right. But it's falling in love and embracing the suck along the way. That's. That's what separates us. Oh, my gosh.

Ed Mylett (55:34)

Very rarely am I in the middle of one of these shows. I'm like, this is freaking great. You know, we're in the first quarter just because it's a. I just want you. I just want to keep going. But I was gonna say this to you. I just gave a talk this weekend, a bunch of entrepreneurs very high on. I said, I'm gonna give you my overall business philosophy. It's gonna surprise you. I said, here's what it is. Everybody you encounter wants to feel this from you. That you love them, care about them, believe in them, and you can show them how to get a little bit better. That's it. And they're saying, help me. You said it of young people. But it's true, I think coach of all people, as you said. And then this notion, I just want to review. I'm not gonna review everything he says, but he says so many good things. This idea of the love of the preparation, I promise you that's true across the board with the athletes I've worked with too. But in addition to that, being able to create a vision that you can articulate that people buy into is like, you're listening to this man talk. There's a rhythm, there's a flow. It's so easy to listen to him. He wasn't born with that. That's something that he's worked on over time. Before we start the interview with my next guest, just want to remind you all that you can subscribe to the show on YouTube or follow the show on Apple or Spotify. We have all the links in our show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Now, on with the show. Welcome back to Max out with Ed Mylett. Gentleman to my left does not need an introduction. This is Terrell Eldorado Owens.

Terrell Owens (56:49)

Not my full name.

Ed Mylett (56:50)

Otherwise known as to. To most of you out there and newly elected NFL hall of Famer to So congratulations on that. Appreciate it and welcome to the program.

Terrell Owens (57:00)

Appreciate it. Max Out.

Ed Mylett (57:02)

Max Out. Exactly. We're gonna max out the day here today. So let's talk about that for the career for a second. I'm curious because this small town guy, not a big time school. Now you're in camp with the Niners your rookie year. Okay. Jerry freakin Rice is there. Probably your hero growing up, right?

Terrell Owens (57:19)

I never, like I said, my grandmother's so strict. I didn't get to do a whole lot, didn't watch a lot of tv.

Ed Mylett (57:24)

That's crazy.

Terrell Owens (57:25)

The only TV shows that I really got to watch was Wheel of Fortune. I got to watch, I got to watch the channel six turn the 1212. Channel 12 news.

Ed Mylett (57:32)

Really?

Terrell Owens (57:32)

I got to watch the Cosby show get out.

Ed Mylett (57:34)

Really? For real. But did you know who Rice was?

Terrell Owens (57:36)

No, not until like my junior year in college.

Ed Mylett (57:39)

Oh my gosh. That's bananas. Like, you didn't know who Jerry Rice was till your junior year?

Terrell Owens (57:43)

Junior year in college. I had no idea because I never followed football like that.

Ed Mylett (57:46)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (57:47)

So I never really was a football fan.

Ed Mylett (57:48)

So you go to camp though. I know a little bit about the history. So Jerry Rice is there. Then There's a number one pick in front of you. Stokes out of UCLA.

Terrell Owens (57:55)

Wasn't he there it the year before 1995.

Ed Mylett (57:58)

So they got a number one. They invest a third round pick in you, right? What was that like going, did you have to earn a roster spot? Like, were you the first thing, like I gotta make the spot or.

Terrell Owens (58:06)

Oh, yeah, well, absolutely. I, I again, not really knowing and being aware of what, what the draft consists of.

Ed Mylett (58:14)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (58:15)

What it encompasses. I mean, I, I, I thought, okay, you drafted, you're on the team. I mean, I didn't know you had, Yeah, I didn't know you had to go through the process of you got to make the team.

Dabo Sweeney (58:28)

So that's awesome.

Terrell Owens (58:29)

Again, like I said, that was kind of how clueless I was to really me playing beyond the collegiate level because I never thought that I would play beyond the collegiate level.

Ed Mylett (58:36)

Awesome.

Terrell Owens (58:37)

We mentioned basketball. I played three years of basketball. I mean, the program wanted me not to play my senior year, understanding that I had an opportunity to play professionally football. So. But I, my love was so great for basketball. I was like, no, I'm not going to forego my senior year of playing basketball to concentrate on football when that was never really on my radar. That's crazy. But yeah, I was drafted war number 15 in camp. My coaches, Larry Kirksey at the time, they drafted me on potential based on my physical attributes and what I could probably add to the game. They thought that I could learn under Jerry Rice, J.J. stokes. And then I got to be there and saw guys like Nate Singleton. These are veteran receivers, Chris Thomas and a lot of other free agents that were on the team at the time. So I'm looking Around, I'm like, I'm number 15. I don't get an 80 number. You don't get an 80 number, a legit number, until you make the team.

Ed Mylett (59:32)

I didn't know that.

Terrell Owens (59:32)

So 15 was my number going all the way through preseason. And as a. As this preseason unfolded, you started to see the cuts break down as we get closer to the season. So I saw guys that I felt in my mind were better than I was. Really, they were getting cut. So I. I mean, it's. It's natural. Natural instinct. Okay. If you know that you're not. Your skill set is not where theirs are.

Ed Mylett (59:59)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (59:59)

You're like, okay, well, I'm next.

Ed Mylett (60:00)

You're next.

Terrell Owens (60:01)

Yeah, that's the same. I. I was a realist about my abilities when I was in high school and college. I knew that there were guys that were better than me.

Ed Mylett (60:09)

That's crazy to hear.

Terrell Owens (60:09)

I knew in college, I knew that there were guys that were bigger, bad, bigger, faster, and stronger than me, even in college. But that's what prompted me to get the key. Not only did I work out in my spare time when I was in high school, those 30, 45 minutes, I didn't go home during the summer after my freshman and sophomore year of school. So I got the key from the strength and conditioning coach. I did the same thing. Got the key to the weight room.

Ed Mylett (60:35)

Here we go.

Terrell Owens (60:36)

Did the same thing. I would go in. That's how I got stronger, because I was in there by myself. So I had to lift off by myself. I had to be careful because I was in there by myself. Nobody's spotting me. So that's how I got stronger. So these are some of the things that I did, unbeknownst to the world out there, in terms of how I. But how I made it.

Ed Mylett (60:56)

This is so good because you outworked everybody. It's also the things you do when no one's watching. Like when you played, one of the things everyone would say, ah, his physique. His physique.

Dabo Sweeney (61:02)

Right.

Ed Mylett (61:02)

Now you know where this comes from.

Terrell Owens (61:03)

It doesn't happen overnight.

Ed Mylett (61:04)

That's awesome to hear. I hope everyone's hearing these lessons. Business, sports, you name it. And then again, this running theme of you taking advantage of opportunity. Right. So during that season, Rice gets hurt.

Terrell Owens (61:15)

That's sec. My second.

Ed Mylett (61:16)

Second season. Is that when you had your breakthrough, was really the second season?

Terrell Owens (61:18)

Yeah, it's kind of sort of.

Sean Casey (61:19)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (61:19)

I played sparingly. You know, my. My rookie year, I played a lot of special teams.

Ed Mylett (61:23)

Yes. But would you catch A couple passes that year.

Terrell Owens (61:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I had my. I don't know how many yards I had. No, I think I had like four touchdowns my rookie year. But again, I started to kind of just familiarize myself with the playbook, Steve Young, just the culture of professional football in itself.

Ed Mylett (61:41)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (61:42)

And so I go in my second year again, going into the offseason season, I'm preparing myself just to be a vital part of value to the team. And so we go into my second season, first game, we go down to Tampa. Jerry Rice, I think he runs a reverse or something, and Warren Sapps, I think just beat our defensive end. Got him from behind and he tears his ACL from that point on, I mean, I get thrown into the fire.

Ed Mylett (62:08)

Here we go.

Terrell Owens (62:09)

And so that's where that preparation, you know, know that I. And, and just me familiarizing everything that I had done my, My rookie year leading up to my second year, I was preparing myself for this moment.

Ed Mylett (62:20)

I love it.

Terrell Owens (62:21)

And if I wasn't prepared, then I wouldn't have been able to, to. To add value to the scene, to the, to the team. You see, I didn't say success because I hadn't, I hadn't. There was no level of success at that point.

Ed Mylett (62:32)

Wow.

Terrell Owens (62:33)

I was still trying to add value. I was trying to add value to, to the Jerry Rice's, to the Steve Youngs, to the JJ Stokes, to the organization, to the team itself. So I hadn't really experienced any success at this point. I was still trying in that mode of proving myself that I could play at the professional level.

Ed Mylett (62:52)

What a great distinction. So when did the. By the way, I want to tell you one thing, just off the whole thing, I turn on a football game, it's the playoffs, it's you guys against Green Bay. The best catch I've seen in the clutch moment in my entire life is that catch you made in the end zone.

Terrell Owens (63:06)

Says a lot.

Ed Mylett (63:07)

What year was that though?

Terrell Owens (63:08)

99.

Ed Mylett (63:09)

Okay, we're going to feed this in right here. You're going to watch this guy come across, it's the middle, and you get obliterated and hold on to this football, right? Like that's the kind of stuff about, like, you added value, added value, added value. And then it was like, oh my God, this guy's special. It's.

Terrell Owens (63:20)

It's literally like where I caught the ball. It's like it's equivalent to going in between 2, 2, 2 cars.

Ed Mylett (63:26)

Unreal.

Terrell Owens (63:26)

Going into the eye of a hurricane or tornado. Tornado. Because Steve Young, he Put that pass where nobody else could catch it but me.

Ed Mylett (63:34)

How much time was left in the game?

Terrell Owens (63:36)

I think at that time, when I caught about 8 seconds left.

Ed Mylett (63:39)

8 seconds left in the game, Right? So I think things like that start happening. So you took advantage of your opportunity. Then there's these special moments, and you start going, wait a minute. Maybe I got something here. Right? Maybe I'm special. When did you have the. This guy? Just so you know, this man had 20 catches in a single football game. So I'm curious. Did you know going into that game, like, whoever the corner was, that way, I'm gonna eat this dude up, or. Or was that just the game kind of fell in your direction?

Terrell Owens (64:02)

Well, for everybody that don't know out there, this is Jerry Rice's last home game.

Ed Mylett (64:06)

Okay. I didn't know.

Terrell Owens (64:07)

So, yeah, this is Jerry Rice's last home game. We playing the Chicago Bears.

Ed Mylett (64:10)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (64:12)

We go into this game with the game plan and the mindset of we're trying to send this guy off into the sunset. You know what I mean? We trying to. To send him off into something like this. You know what I mean? So our first 15 plays, scripted or 20 plays, they were. If it was. I think it was 15.

Ed Mylett (64:27)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (64:28)

I guarantee you 13, 98% of the pass plays. 13 to 14 of the pass plays or the plays in general.

Ed Mylett (64:35)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (64:35)

Were for Jerry.

Ed Mylett (64:36)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (64:37)

We're trying to send the greatest receiver of all time out the best way possible.

Ed Mylett (64:40)

Gotcha.

Terrell Owens (64:41)

But not only did we know that, but the work knew that. The Chicago Bears knew that. The defense knew that.

Ed Mylett (64:49)

Yes.

Terrell Owens (64:50)

So they tried to prevent. And they did a great job of taking him out of the game, taking.

Ed Mylett (64:54)

Him away, which opened up space for you.

Terrell Owens (64:56)

What did you just mention? You segue into this by saying, me taking advantage of opportunities. So that's what I did. So Jeff Garcia, the quarterback at the time, he had to be smart going through his progressions, knowing that. Okay. I can't imagine. Imagine what Jeff was like. We trying to get the greatest receiver of all time. We trying to get him off, and he's. So he has to be smart about the game plan not to force anything. So he goes through his progressions. And Jerry being the number one receiver. And you could have said that. Me and jj, again, depending on the receiver sets or formations, we're two and three in the progression.

Ed Mylett (65:31)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (65:31)

So I was just basically running my routes to win, to be open, to be that secondary receiver. If Jeff goes through his one option and Jerry's not there, he goes to two or he goes to three. I was on the receiving end of 20 of those passes.

Ed Mylett (65:46)

It's interesting. This is like the most telling part of the interview, just so you know, because the perception of you, I think sometimes is that this is. And it's completely opposite. I'm going to bring another example up in a minute. I think like the ultimate team player on the field. I just asked you about a record you have had for a long time, and you credited Jerry with it. You literally just said that he created opportunities for me. Right?

Terrell Owens (66:07)

Like it really was.

Ed Mylett (66:07)

That's a team. That's what a team person. Actually, most team guys would not even say that. So that's incredible that I ask you about a record you hold. You basically give credit to Rice for moving coverage his way and opening things up for you and. And your quarterback, by the way, too. I'm curious, because now you become the Jerry Rice the rest of your career. One of the things that's unique, you guys, when you're going to highlight level of sports, is that, you know, you see the records he's got and. But you have to understand something. Every football game this man went into, for about a decade or more, the defense on that Monday when they got together was, how do we stop 81, right? You understand the whole. The whole structure of the defense is how do we take away their best weapon? This was their best weapon. What's that like? I'm curious. Like, all week you got to be so good, you're going to face their best corner, right?

Dabo Sweeney (66:49)

Or.

Ed Mylett (66:50)

Or they're going to slant coverage your way. You get double cover most of the time, whatever it is. What's it like knowing a whole team is scheming against you? And how did you end up prevailing week after week after week, beating coverage like that? What was that? Was it your. Was it your. The ability to run the route? Was it your film study? All of it? Like, what was it?

Terrell Owens (67:07)

It's just my preparation, understanding what they're going to give me, understanding my coaching, them helping me. They were helping me perfect the craft of becoming a receiver. Coming out of Chattanooga, I had no idea of, really. I wasn't faced with the level of competition that I was going to be facing in the pros. So I had to work on these things, you know, day in and day out after practice, working with my hands, working with my feet, my physical park. That was a given. I mean, I could run through a guy all day, all day, but I knew in order for me to progress and get to the level of Jerry Rice. Yeah, Then I had to add some tools to my toolbox. I probably, I had a toolbox, but I probably had maybe two or three tools in there.

Ed Mylett (67:51)

Wow.

Terrell Owens (67:52)

You know, I mean, so I was, I was lacking. So I had to add some tools to my repertoire into my box in order to, to really perform at the level that I knew that I could once I started to grasp what I could do on the football field.

Ed Mylett (68:05)

So the separator was that extra preparation, those extra tools.

Terrell Owens (68:08)

Again, you have, have average, you have good, and you have great football players.

Ed Mylett (68:12)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (68:12)

And you see that there's only that the margin of with good and great is very, very slim. And what separates those guys. When you think about, in football, you think about the Jerry's, you think about the Tom Brady's, your, your Steve Young office, you know, hall of Fame caliber or talent guys in basketball, you think about the Cobras, you think about the Michael George, you think about, about the LeBrons and what they're doing later on in their careers is because they realize that there is something that separates them from good to go from good to great coming out of high school. I wasn't that great coming out of high school. But these guys, when you think about Kobe's, the Kevin Garnett, the LeBron's, they're projected to be great, but it'll be a big disappointment and failure if they don't exceed or live up to those expectations. But you think about what Kobe did, he took the blueprint of what Michael Jordan did. You think about what LeBron has done. Not only. You can't just pinpoint and characterize him with one particular player. He possesses so many abilities from all these great players that have paved the way from him. He realizes that and he took advantage of the opportunities. So he takes the time to play 15 seasons. And now you feel like you look, look at this guy play. He can play 15 more because he's invested in himself. He believes in himself. And that's what I had to do, too. I knew that I wasn't good at that. At one point, I was average. I started from average and I worked my way to good. And then once I saw him, like, okay, I'm a pretty decent athlete, what can I do to take me to the next level? I utilize the resources around me, from my personal trainer to my coaches. I listen to, listen. When I would be on the football field and I would see Steve Young talking to Brent Jones, or he would be talking to the quarterback coach Matt Kavanaugh, or when Bill Walsh may walk on the Field or he's talking to Jerry Rice. These are conversations that they had. I was in earshot distance. I would be paying attention. So if there was something that he and Steve. Steve and Jerry are trying to get on the same page with, I knew that he's talking to him, but I'm being taught at the same time. So I'm taking all this into. Into account, into consideration, because I may be in that situation one day. And ultimately I was, because I had some big shoes to fill. I was honestly, I was afraid to be average. I was afraid to be good. I wanted to be great. I wanted to be better than good. And so that's what enabled me to do the things that I did on the football field. When I saw smaller guys, you know, squirt through defenses, how quick they were, how agile they were, I knew as a big body, in order for me to get to that level, I had to work on these things.

Ed Mylett (70:49)

Wow, this is awesome. Like, maybe some of my favorite three or four minutes in the history of doing this, because this is like inside the inside of the inside of a Hall of Famer of anything. Same is true for any of you guys in business. You get to that level where you're good, you want to get to that level where you're being great. It's fighting for these little extra things, those extra mentors, extra conversations, extra preparation, extra tool in your toolbox to communicate or close or product or whatever the heck it is. Like, it's awesome. Curious. This is a football question. Toughest corner you had to go up against in your career.

Terrell Owens (71:17)

Aeneas Williams.

Ed Mylett (71:18)

Aeneas went from the Cardinals. Was he the Cardinals?

Ryan Holiday (71:20)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (71:21)

First he was with the St. Louis Rams.

Ed Mylett (71:24)

Yeah, Rams and then Cards. Right.

Terrell Owens (71:25)

Cause we played. I was in the NFC west, so we played them twice a year for my first three or four years. And so he was a big corner.

Ed Mylett (71:31)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (71:32)

I was a big receiver. So again, I'm sure he did film study.

Ed Mylett (71:36)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (71:37)

Just like I had to do film study and guys that did film study to try to minimize you. Like you said, they game plan. How do you stop this guy?

Ed Mylett (71:44)

Yes.

Terrell Owens (71:44)

You know, I was just a young buck 81.

Ed Mylett (71:46)

How do you stop. How do you stop this young kid?

Terrell Owens (71:48)

Yeah, how do you stop this young kid?

Ryan Holiday (71:49)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (71:50)

So him being a veteran, I'm sure he studied film on what I did good, what I did decent, what I did poorly. And he probably tried to minimize those things, eliminate those things. What I did great good at that time. And so it was. It was tough getting off bump and run because Going to a small school.

Ed Mylett (72:08)

Yes.

Terrell Owens (72:08)

I wasn't. I wasn't faced with a lot of that.

Ed Mylett (72:10)

Okay, so everybody probably wanted to get physical with you at the line of scares, but very few guys had the capacity to do it because you were so strong.

Terrell Owens (72:15)

Right.

Ed Mylett (72:15)

And Williams could.

Terrell Owens (72:16)

Right. And the thing is, especially for him, he was just my size, so he could. There was some room for error for him to make up. But if it's a small, smaller guy, if they mess around and they slip, I use my physicality or my quickness to get by. They know it's a rap. They know it's a rap. So they didn't. They. They didn't come up and impress me as much. But he was the guy that. That forced me. I'm like, man, I gotta get better. Because I. I can't only just. I can't only just get by with getting. Having some success against these other corners.

Ed Mylett (72:49)

Yeah.

Terrell Owens (72:50)

There are going to be other big corners in the league. They're going to look at him like, okay, he stopped to. So let me see how he did it.

Ed Mylett (72:56)

Wow.

Terrell Owens (72:56)

So I had to prepare myself for any and every situation.

Ed Mylett (72:59)

I love hearing this. The other thing about you as a player, then we'll move off this. But I want to say one thing is, I think people underestimate how tough you are. First off, the best of ability is availability. You were available all the time. You just. You were durable, like LeBron. It's one of the great things about LeBron James.

Terrell Owens (73:11)

Nutrition, nutrition.

Ed Mylett (73:12)

And Brady. Brady had the one year with his neighbor. This dude plays football. Right. Like, he's available. It's how you rack up these numbers. Right. And help your football team bring value. You were tough, though. And so I'm a Patriot fan, so I just want to talk about this one situation. You know what I'm going to say. Right.

Terrell Owens (73:26)

But Super Bowl 39.

Ed Mylett (73:28)

Super Bowl 39. So this man gets to the super bowl, and the truth is, a few weeks prior to that, he basically breaks his leg and has a screw in your leg.

Terrell Owens (73:36)

Is that not two screws in my ankle. I tore a lot of the ligaments in my ankle.

Ed Mylett (73:41)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (73:43)

Upon the diagnosis, once I got my MRI the following day, a lot of ligaments torn. I didn't know my leg was broken until I got an X ray because they MRI'd my whole leg. Because I went to sleep that night and my leg was really. It was aching so bad. Not my ankle. Like, I iced it.

Ed Mylett (73:59)

Yep.

Terrell Owens (74:00)

But I was throbbing throughout the course of the night up by my knee.

Ryan Holiday (74:03)

Okay.

Terrell Owens (74:04)

So I told the radiologist up like, yeah. I was like, man, my leg was aching throughout the course of the night. He was like, all right, cool, we'll just X ray the whole leg or whatever and see what's going on.

Ed Mylett (74:12)

This is one of the most underreported stories, seriously, I think, in the history of the NFL, right? This man played in the Super Bowl. No one thought he was going to play. They weren't sure the game plan for it, but no one thought he played. This man played with a recently broken leg in the Super Bowl. This is something that no one talks about. There was even a slight limp when you would watch him warm up and then he flat early in the game. I'm watching the game, I go, oh, God, Owens is going to kill us. The only reason I'm not being negative about anybody, I want you to talk about playing with that injury, playing through some pain because you had to be in some pain or some discomfort or you weren't at your best. But I'll be honest with you, I watched that Super Bowl. If they'd have continued to get you that football in that game, there would have been a different result in that football game. I remember that last couple drives you had were taking forever. I'm like, thank God it's taken forever not getting the ball to, to. They literally, if they just kept feeding you the football, they could not cover you. You were like a man on a mission in that football. I'm not saying that because you're sitting here either. It's a standout moment for me in sports. I coach a lot of athletes. I know that you weren't at your best. And you, you came into, again, the greatest opportunity of your career was this super bowl to shine and you shine. And had they won the football game, it would have been a legendary story people would tell forever because you played so hurt. So that was a great conversation. Be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Here's an excerpt I did with our next guest. Welcome back, everybody. My guest today played 12 years in the major leagues. Let me just tell you something. He could flat mash. This dude could hit. I used to watch him going, that's the natural. He should call him the natural. But then the more I got to know his story, turns out it wasn't natural that he worked really hard to build this incredible swing three time all star. And I'm just telling you guys, any of you, that Know baseball. This dude could flat out hit. But today we're going to talk about, you know, you got someone here that played in the big leagues, in the major leagues that long. There's a mental aspect to what they did and how they live and what they do now that got them there. So we're going to talk about peak performance today and overcoming adversity, all kinds of incredible stuff with Sean Casey. Casey, welcome to the show, bro.

Sean Casey (76:11)

Thanks for having me on, dude. So fired up to be here, brother.

Ed Mylett (76:14)

You came all the way in. Flew. Flew from Pennsylvania to be here today. So thank you for being here. I know you got a lot of family stuff going right now.

Sean Casey (76:21)

Dude, I just wanted to say, too, like, before we get going, like, listening to your podcast, dude, like, who's the guy? Who's the voice of. Like, welcome to. Who is that guy? The guy that does that. He introduces your show.

Ed Mylett (76:31)

He used to do incredible. Yeah, he used to do something for the NFL. And I heard his voice way back in the day. It's so funny. Seven years ago, I'm like, I told my team, I don't know who that dude is. I want that voice saying my name. And what's funny about that thing is, too, is that even to this day, he still can't say Mylet correctly. It's what? Welcome to the Ed Milet show. He still doesn't even say my name right. But his voice is so good. I'm like, okay, he can just say my. He says my name wrong on my own show. But he says it was such a great voice. I'm like, let's just leave it. Every time he does the takes, I'm like, can you get him to say Mylet? Like, no, it's Mylet. Whatever. Anyway, so I want to go back to the kind of the beginning with you. So Michael Jordan's got this amazing story that everyone throws around that, you know, he ends up being the greatest of all time. But he didn't even, you know, make his varsity team his sophomore year. There's this great story, and it's a great story, but the guy went to North Carolina, had a bunch of scholarship offers. You, on the other hand, when I say this guy could hit, I mean, I. Other big league baseball players envied your swing and just were, you know, you just a remarkable hitter and player. But in high school, we go back like, you didn't really have any juice. No one wanted you out of high school. You couldn't even get a scholarship. You couldn't even get someone to look at you. I want you to think about this that are listening. Wherever you are in your life right now, you're like, no one knows me. Nothing's happening. This dude couldn't even get someone to come scout him, never mind him offer you money. No one even come look, right? Is that true?

Sean Casey (77:56)

No. I mean, you know, it's funny. We were talking about, you know, you're out in Cal, California, you've got, you got. Hey, we had nine dudes from our high school get drafted.

Ed Mylett (78:03)

Like what?

Sean Casey (78:03)

Like I could, I haven't seen, I haven't seen nine scouts in my life in Pittsburgh, you know, I mean, it was incredible. So, you know, it's a great story. And I, you know, as I look back and I, I think we were, we were talking earlier, like, my dad's in a place right now where he's. Has gone through two open heart surgeries and, and all this stuff. So, you know, even more like he and I have connected and, and we, we've kind of gone back down memory laden, you know, it's funny, when I look back at, when I look back at, you know, growing up in Pittsburgh, like, you know, I was one of the better players, probably 10, 11, 12, you know how that goes. Then you go to the bigger fields, 13, 14. And so I remember being 14 years old and, and, and I, I wasn't, I didn't play it all freshman year. And I'm like, man, why am I not playing? Well, you didn't play, like, I played a little bit. I was like, hey, Casey, get in there and pinch hit. And I'm like, what? You know, so, yeah, so didn't really play much. Played a little bit here and there. And I remember like a few games into the year, going to my dad and being like, hey, dad, help me out here. You know, I mean, like, you know how good I am. You saw me hitting bombs when I was 12, just crushing balls, like 220 in the gap. You know what I mean? Like, dominating, you know, and, and I'm like, you know, and I, you know, that I should be starting as a freshman, you know, freshman baseball. And he's like. And I was like, do you think you go talk to the coach? That'd be. Just help me out, you know what I mean? We go get your dad to kind of snowplow in there and hey, a.

Ed Mylett (79:19)

Lot of guys do do that.

Sean Casey (79:20)

That's what I mean. Exactly. You know, and I, I think back now as a dad, and I know you do too, Ed, is the conversations you have with your Kid, like, man, am I enabling my kids? You know, I feel like you disable people when you enable them, you know, am I enabling my kids sometimes? Am I making it too easy? And. And do I say no enough to maybe sometimes for. For a lesson. Right? And, like, so when I look back at this conversation, had my dad gone and talked to the coach? We're not even talking.

Ed Mylett (79:45)

Yeah, isn't that incredible?

Sean Casey (79:46)

We're not even talking.

Ed Mylett (79:47)

So he says no.

Sean Casey (79:47)

So my dad says no. He's like, you know what, Sean? I'm not going to talk to the coach. He goes. He goes. But he goes, one thing I will say is, the kid that's playing ahead of you, I don't think he's better than you, but you're not glaringly better than him. You're not glaringly better than him. He goes, if you want to start playing, then you got to start taking accountability for who you are as a player and for you. Who you are as, you know, putting in the work. He goes, there's a batting cage that just opened up in the town next to us. He goes, I'll make you a deal. He goes, I'll buy you as many tokens as you want as long as you hit every day. As soon as you stop hitting, the deal's off.

Ed Mylett (80:25)

I love you, dad.

Sean Casey (80:26)

Yeah, it was incredible. And I said, you know what? You got a deal, dad. He goes, you got to start being accountable for who you are and putting in the work. And, Ed, dude, I started falling in love. I went to the cages. I went to this batting cage. It was Grand Slam usa. And remember Grand Slam when they first came out. And I look back, like, things you're grateful for. I literally, my gratitude journal recently was like, I'm so grateful that that guy, Dick Thomas, decided to put a Grand Slam USA in the town next to me in Pittsburgh.

Andre Ward (80:53)

Wow.

Sean Casey (80:54)

You know, it's incredible when you think back of your life, you know. So I end up meeting a guy on Tuesday nights named Frank Porco. Never played. Never played. Never, ever played college baseball, but he was a hitting instructor.

Ed Mylett (81:04)

I wanted to ask you that. So this guy that helped you didn't even play college baseball?

Sean Casey (81:08)

Didn't play college baseball. Just a high school, and he was making some money on the side. But, Ed, talk about divine intervention. This guy knew hitting. This guy knew hitting. And all the years I played in the big leagues and all the. All the, you know, hitting coaches I've been around, I still feel like Frank Porco in Bethel park, you know, Pennsylvania was the best Coach.

Terrell Owens (81:25)

Wow.

Sean Casey (81:26)

So I would go to him every Tuesday night. My dad didn't make a lot of money. He was a chemical salesman making, like 33 grand a year, you know? So I knew those tokens were a big deal. Yeah, I didn't take that for granted. I knew those tokens. I knew the deal was a big deal, right? So I would go every Tuesday night, hit with Frank Porker for 30 minutes. Five, 30, 6O'. Clock, 20 bucks. You know, it's a lot more now. It's not 20 bucks, but 20 bucks. And then I would just stay, man. And I became obsessed with the mechanics of a swing. All because I wanted to play JV baseball.

Ed Mylett (81:55)

It was free.

Sean Casey (81:56)

All because I wanted to start my sophomore year, really, right? And it's just when I look back and, like, you know how you talk about just, like, the compound pounding and the marginal gains? Like, I could see myself getting, like, a little bit better every time. Like, oh, man, my front shoulder staying a little better. I'm really driving off my back. So next year it comes along. And my dad was right. He's like, man, this is gonna work. So sophomore year, I start jv, right? And I'm like, wow, this is working. My dad's right. Like, it's that, you know, and he was always telling me, you want to. And I was like, well, I'm College baseball. One day, I was like, all right. Preparation, meeting, opportunity. Like, be ashamed one day, Sean, if you came. If the opportunity came along and you weren't prepared, I'm like. And I kind of took that stuff to heart. It was just such great lessons. So my sophomore year, hitting every day still, I. I didn't play any other sports. I did play some football and basketball, but by my sophomore year, I was just playing bas. But I hit every day. Hit every day after school. Next thing you know, junior year, I'm starting varsity. And then senior year, I'm starting varsity. Now I'm a good hitter, though, Ed.

Ed Mylett (82:50)

Yeah, now you're a break.

Sean Casey (82:52)

This works.

Ed Mylett (82:52)

Yeah, yeah.

Sean Casey (82:53)

This. Doing stuff every day. Like, you know, that invisible. Those invisible games. He really do work. And I was driving balls all over the park. So we get to my senior year, man, and, you know, kind of another, just a great lesson from my dad. He had just started a new company called Casey Chemical. He's been waiting to do it. He's 50 years old now. He's like, you know what? I'm going to start it. He was like a middleman for, like, you know, for selling surfactant chemicals, right? And. And so I could. I saw how. How much he grinded. I saw, like, the work ethic that he put in. And I could see now what he was talking about four, three years earlier. So. And we. Every. Every month, I'd come home from school and. And he would be, hey, time to send out the network marketing. He said, we got 5,000 letters. Shawny. Get those. Get that. Those lips ready, because you're going to be licking those envelopes and sending them off. And we would send them out. He would say, hey, listen, if we get three or four people to come back, we got a sale. We're gonna pay the bills. And that was, like, the kind of thought process, right? So during my senior year, I had no college scholarship offers. Not Division 1, Division 2, Division 3, right? Just, like, they weren't there. And, you know, remember back in high school, you'd go to those tryouts where, like, you know, the big league teams would come, and then you'd run the 60, and that's why you got. And you're getting drafted. He's like, this is. My leg can fly. You know what I mean? They're like this, Casey, like, does he have. Does he have a disease we don't know about? Guy looks like he's ice skating quicksand.

Ed Mylett (84:16)

You know what I mean?

Sean Casey (84:18)

So I'd run the 67, 4, 7, 5. I'd come back, Eddie, after the Trout, I'm like, oh, yeah, when are we gonna hit? They're like, all right. These guys are coming back for day two.

Ed Mylett (84:26)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (84:27)

They'd go down the list. They'd be like. And I'm like, casey, I think you left off. Sean. Casey. Like, no, you're not on the list. 7, 4, 5. We'll see you next time. Go to the Royals tryout next week. I'm like, so, dude, it was, like, so frustrating because I'm like, is this a train tryout or are we gonna hit? We're not gonna hit like this, right? So. So. So my dad, at that point, I was getting not many looks, and my dad said, you know what, Sean? I sat down with him, Mike. I said, dad, I really want to play college baseball, but no one's coming. And he goes, no one is going to come. He goes, no one's coming, Sean. He says, you want to make you. You want to go play college baseball, you got to start playing offense, not defense, and quit waiting for somebody to come. He's like, how about tomorrow you come home from school, you come up to my office. Casey Chemical. You sit down with Me. We're gonna write 30 letters. You're gonna write the 30 schools that you want to go to. Division two, division three, wherever you want. So I come home from school that day. I'm kind of fired up. Yeah, I got a guy. I got a game plan. I sit down with my dad. He goes, here we go. So, bam. I wrote the first one to Penn State, next one to Clemson. Then I'm writing to College of Wooster Mary. I'm writing whoever. Whoever will listen.

Ed Mylett (85:35)

Yep.

Sean Casey (85:35)

I just opened my mind. I'm like, I'm gonna play in the big leagues one day, but I gotta get to a college.

Ed Mylett (85:38)

Why do your face change when you started to talk about your dad writing the letter? I'm just curious. Like, your face changed a little.

Sean Casey (85:43)

Yeah. You know what? Because it fires me up. I'm so grateful.

Ed Mylett (85:46)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (85:46)

I'm so grateful. You know, it just. You know, I'm 48 now, so. You're grateful for those. You're grateful when you look back when you're 18 years old. 17. 17 years old. And. And you know, you got a dad that's. That's willing to stand next to you when you're. When you're grinding.

Dabo Sweeney (86:02)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (86:02)

You know, I mean that. When it's. You know, when it's. You know, when it's not. You know, when everyone tells you you're too slow, you're this and that. You know, you got the guy next to you say, you can do it.

Dabo Sweeney (86:11)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (86:11)

Why not? You?

Ed Mylett (86:12)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (86:12)

You know I told you the truth, too, right?

Ed Mylett (86:14)

Like, hey, no one's coming, April.

Sean Casey (86:15)

No one's coming. And you know what? And I think that's the reality of it. That was the reality of it. Like, And I get. You know, I was like, when you fight with reality, only you lose 100. I'm like, they're not.

Ed Mylett (86:24)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (86:24)

He's like. So we sit down and write these 30s, 30.

Ed Mylett (86:27)

Amazing. I just gotta tell you, like, you're getting me. Like, I don't know why my eyes are watering, but, like, I know that that was a. Like, you're not here if you don't write those letters. You're not. I know they're gonna hear it in a minute, but, like, you're not here if your dad doesn't stand by you. You're not here if you don't play offense. He doesn't tell you. No one's coming, Shawnee.

Sean Casey (86:43)

No one's coming. No one's coming.

Ed Mylett (86:45)

It's just amazing how moments in life can define us, right?

Sean Casey (86:48)

I mean, like, even with my kids, I'm like, God, I hope I'm saying the right stuff.

Ed Mylett (86:52)

Yes.

Sean Casey (86:52)

I hope I'm giving the right lessons. I hope I'm not just snow plowing, you know, the road for them and making sure everything's smooth. You know what I mean? Because the adversity that I had was. That's where I got my advantages, right? So.

Ed Mylett (87:03)

So you write the letters.

Sean Casey (87:04)

So I write the letters, dude. Write 30 letters right before I'm done. I get up to go. He goes, hey, hey, hey, sit back down. He goes, got one more letter. He goes, university of Richmond sent you a flyer. I'm like, a flyer, you know? Now it's like social media. These kids are like, hey, look at my swing. Check me out. Look, I got millions of followers. They're like, hey, University of Richmond sent you a flyer last year from the Keystone State games. Why don't you send them one, too? So, bam. Last letter. University of Richmond. Dear University of Richmond, thanks for the flyer.

Ed Mylett (87:28)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (87:31)

I really think I can play there, you know? I mean, boom, boom. So, Bam, season goes on, dude, and I'm still hitting every day after school, and I'm having a great year. We end up winning the championship that year at my. My school, Upper Sinclair. But with four games to go, brother, it's incredible how this. How this works. First at Batimen, we're playing this team called Montour. I get a pitch, middle away. Bam. Rocket, left, center, you know, my. Let's go. Couple ribies, you know, next. Next pitch, you know, pitch Midland, Bam. Right. Right, center, you know, so I'm four for four. Eight. Eight rbis, you know, and. And four doubles. And, you know, bro, like, you. You could probably look back at your high school career, college career, and, you know, the games. Yeah, there's a handful of them where.

Ed Mylett (88:08)

You'Re like, that was.

Sean Casey (88:09)

That's incredible.

Ed Mylett (88:10)

Yeah. Yep.

Sean Casey (88:11)

That was my greatest high school game ever.

Ryan Holiday (88:13)

Yeah.

Sean Casey (88:13)

Hands down. No doubt about it. 100. So Jerry Malarkey, who's the. Who's the coach at Upper Sinclair? I'm running out to play first for the seventh inning. We're dominating his team. He's like, hey, Case. He's like, man, you've had a heck of a game. He goes, how many hits you got? I got four hits, man. He goes, how many ribbons? I got eight ribbies, Jerry. He goes, yeah, you know what? That's great because you see the guy behind the backstop right there? That's Mark McQueen. Just drove six hours from the University of Richmond to come see you play. And I was like, are you serious? He's like, yeah, he wants to talk to you after the game.

Ed Mylett (88:45)

Oh, my God.

Sean Casey (88:47)

So after the game, I went over.

Ed Mylett (88:48)

Preparation, opportunity, preparation meeting, opportunity.

Sean Casey (88:50)

And I remember thinking to my dad, that's. What's this preparation meeting, opportunity stuff? Are you BS in here? Because I don't see any opportunities.

Ed Mylett (88:57)

Right, right.

Sean Casey (88:58)

But he's like. And he always. He was always adamant, once one's gonna come, one's gonna show up, you know? And I went over to Mark McQueen, shook his hand, he said, hey, man. He's like, really like your swing, you know? He goes, let me get back to you tomorrow. So he went back to Coach Atkins back in Richmond, called me, offered me a thousand dollar scholarship. And I think at the time, Richmond was like, 30 grand. My dad made 33 grand. I was like, dad, what are we gonna do? He's like, we'll figure it out. We'll take a second mortgage on the house. We'll get some financial aid. So I went to University of Richmond, brother, on the only offer that I had from those letters that I sent out. Playing offense and not defense, right? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Incredible. I go to University of Richmond.

Ed Mylett (89:35)

Are you all hearing this? Just so you know, the end of the story is this man plays 12 years in the major leagues as one of the greatest hitters over a decade in the major leagues. Multiple all star teams. This dude got no looks, no look, if you feel like you're missing your, like, are you hearing this? He gets $1,000. And all due respect to University of Richmond, all due respect, but this is not like Arizona State either, right?

Sean Casey (90:00)

It's a mid major.

Dabo Sweeney (90:01)

Yeah, exactly.

Sean Casey (90:02)

It's something like big time.

Ed Mylett (90:03)

It's incredible. Go ahead.

Sean Casey (90:04)

It's incredible. Incredible. So I go to University of Richmond. Hadn't even seen the school show up, first day with my buddy Jay Adams. Hey, man. Hey, nice campus. You know, you're taking 45 visits like, hey, Ed, Milette, let's get him. This guy's gonna be leading off three years. We got boom, boom, boom, pack 10 sec. I'm like, hey, great campus.

Ed Mylett (90:23)

And I'm interviewing you now, just so you know. And you're the one who played 12 years in the big league, so it all works out okay. You're on my show talking about your big league career.

Sean Casey (90:32)

Isn't that incredible?

Ryan Holiday (90:33)

It's incredible.

Sean Casey (90:33)

It's incredible how life works out so true. So I go to University of Richmond, bro. I end up starting my freshman year. Have a good, good freshman year. Freshman. All American like, you know, I mean, in that litigant, you know, But I'm still developing as a player. My sophomore year, I do well and I go to Cape Cod and you obviously know that's your ticket if you can get to the Cape. You know, in that year, Todd Helton was there, Darren Urstadt was there, Mike Lowell. Some good players, right? Have a really good summer, hit like 340 with the wood bat, you know, almost, you know, League and RBIs. And the only reason I say that is because it's the part of the story. I go back my junior year and I be and I, and I and I hit.461 and I led Division 1 NCA baseball and hit and batting.461. Incredible. So I think back to three years earlier or, or six years, seven years earlier. I'm asking my dad to go talk to the freshman high school coach because I'm not playing. And he just gives me the lesson of, you've got to work harder, you got to put the time in, you got to start being accountable for what you do, set new routines, what are your habits after school, all that stuff. And then for me, it all started to develop. I look back and like seven years later, gosh, like, you talk about the compound pounding, that pinata effect of the invisible gains, all that stuff. Seven years later in the NCAA Division one champ.

Ed Mylett (91:47)

Freaking incredible.

Sean Casey (91:48)

And I become a second round pick of the Cleveland Indians.

Ed Mylett (91:50)

Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest.

Ryan Holiday (92:00)

All right, Ed, it's so great to have you here on the Learning Leader show. Welcome, man.

Ed Mylett (92:04)

Pleasure to be here. And you have I told you I'm a fan of your work for a while. So it's great to finally join you.

Ryan Holiday (92:09)

Means it means a lot to me. The feeling is mutual. Going back to earlier in your life, your athletic career. So we have that in common, right? College sports in your athletic career. I can tell looking at you, just jacked and still in amazing shape. But your career was cut short by an injury. Can you share more about what athletics meant to you and then how you felt when it got cut short based on getting hurt?

Ed Mylett (92:36)

Yeah, athletics for me was the only place, man, where I felt any confidence. When you're raised with anxiety or, you know, dysfunction, your family dysfunction could be they didn't love you and didn't tell you they loved you enough. They didn't give you enough water, you know, fighting divorce, bankruptcy. You know, one version of child neglect is a parent not chasing their dream. It's a form of neglect. It's an insidious one that most people don't appreciate. But a parent not living their full potential installs that software in that child. That's a form of neglect if you're a parent. And so when my career ended, it probably ended something that would have ended anyway. You know, quite frankly, it's a hidden blessing, but at the time, it was devastating because it was my only dream. And it ended. And I was really lost for quite a long time, sort of flailing away, trying to find who I was. Because the mistake I made, this is true for a lot of executives listening to this too. I had linked my identity to what I did. My identity was what I did or what I accomplished or what I had. It's a very dangerous way to live because that stuff changes and sometimes it goes away. And now I learned my identity is who I am as a man. The decisions I make, the way I live my life, the way I treat other people. And I'll never again allow. And I'm, you know, become pretty wealthy guy and got jets and houses and islands and all this stuff, but I'll never allow my identity to be tied to things I do, because that's fleeting. And I know many, many people have climbed the corporate ladder. They finally get that position, they finally get that influence. They're like, wow, I thought I'd feel differently. I thought it would be more. I thought it would be better. And that's because their identity is tied to what they do. And that's a shallow way to live your life. And that's something I had to learn in that moment when my identity disappeared, which was baseball.

Ryan Holiday (94:25)

Now, if you fast forward and see that you've gained immense wealth, like you said, the planes, the cars, the houses, the islands, you got the Richard Branson type stuff going on. But even I noticed, like, I think, as you know this, as a podcast host, you learn a lot in the first few seconds when you meet somebody prior to pressing record. And sometimes people flip a switch and kind of go into character. Once you hit record, you have been the same guy from the second we started. And one thing I noticed, too, is an immense amount of humor, humility, which I'm not gonna lie, like, I, I was pleasantly surprised, Ed, because you could have easily not have that based on all of the. The other stuff that you've accomplished. How do you, how do you think about that I'm curious of, of humility in the role of. Not just like fake humility which we all have seen. Some. I'm talking genuine, real. Hey, man, it's good to get to get to know you. I've listened to your show. Like you can tell like this is real. And that to me is like a really a key cog. When I think about your future, it's like, how does it not continue to go like this when you have this humility about you?

Ed Mylett (95:34)

Thank you. By the way, great question. It's one of the most important things in my life with people I want around me is humility. Well one, I'm a faith based person, so I'm not. I don't think that everything that's happened in my life is just me. That does not mean I haven't busted my tail. But I know there's an element of blessing, quite frankly. There's been a little luck too, right? I've made my own luck, but there's a little bit of luck. The second thing is I know how fragile it is. It could go away. And so I don't really catch up too much in that stuff. But the big thing is this. The people that I like the most, like I try to surround myself with, also have a ton of self confidence. By the way, I think there's a nuance. I want people that nuance this line. And it's not an easy way to, to live. I mean, it's difficult to find this balance, tremendous self confidence with humility. Because we all know really self confident people that don't have any humility, what happens, they're not curious, they don't grow. They usually finally flame out and make mistakes because they believe their own press clippings. Right? Then we also have friends that are really, really humble with no self confidence. And you're dragging their butt through life all the time, right? Come on, man, we can do this. You're not that. It's not. You're not a victim. So I try to have a lot of self confidence with a degree of humility. And most of the people I surround myself with have that as well. I like curious people. I want to grow. What a ridiculous way to live. To not be curious, to not want to learn. Like people go, why do you even do your show? It's not a financial win for me. Right. I love people. I love learning from people. I love. I'm watching you, your level of preparation. I'm like, all right, I got to up my game a little bit. How does he know about these indexes cards with my dad, like, that's not a very public thing. So I'm always trying to grow. I get in an Uber. You can ask my wife. It was like, do you always have limo drivers? No, I take a lot of ubers.

Dabo Sweeney (97:24)

Why?

Ed Mylett (97:24)

I want to meet real people, man. And automatically everyone will tell you if I have a server in a restaurant. Tell me your story. What's your story? I had a guy drive me yesterday. Really quick. Guys from Lebanon, right? Driving it. He's got a kid at Harvard, a kid at Yale and a kid at Stanford. He's driving an uber to put him through school. And I'm like, tell me about your family. How'd they get to. Well, education is important. Tell me about Lebanon. I didn't want to get out of the car. It was like a 20 minute ride. I'm like, can we? I'm like extending the drive, you know. I wanted to learn more about this man. What a fascinating man. You get a new ass guy making him three. Two kids in an ivy league and another one at Stanford. What a remarkable man. And like, tell me about your wife. You must have an amazing wife to have these three kids. And he's lighting up about his wife. We met when we were 14. I said, oh, man. I met my wife in kindergarten. We started dating when I was 14. That's the juice of life, is to have humility. It's where you learn and you reach people. Hablas espanol spries to diocese. If you used babbel, you would.

Sean Casey (98:44)

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