B (2:31)

Yeah, it is serious.

A (2:32)

He's also a Boston boy like me originally, and I think he's one of the funniest humans in the world. So welcome to the show, Pete Holmes.

B (2:39)

Thank you very much. What a nice. I've, I, I'm already glad that we did this.

A (2:44)

Yeah, let's just cut right now. We can end it.

B (2:46)

We could.

A (2:47)

He has his own podcast. It's called you make it weird, right?

B (2:49)

It's just been made it weird past. Yeah.

A (2:51)

But yeah, it's been around forever, you guys. It's like, oh, yeah. After his TV show, I wanted to ask you, why are so many standups from Boston?

B (2:59)

I mean, that's a great question. I, I, it's not to be too much of a cliche, but I think there's something about, I don't, I don't want to put it down, but there's something a little repressed about Boston. Meaning it's, you know, remember Gary Gman had this great line where if you drank sprite in Boston, you were, that was considered effeminate. You know what I mean? There's, so, there's something kind of like, I grew up in this pressure cooker of like, toughness and, and kind of, again, I don't want to put it down. I really love Boston. But like, knuckleheads, I'll say knuckleheads. Toughness and intense liberalism and intense geniuses. So like mit, but also like the die hard Red sock fan. Fuck you and all that sort of stuff. And, and Harvard and roads made for horses in the snow. And like, my father, and my mother's from Lithuania, but she's from South Boston. And, and my father's from, like, Somerville, so they were from, like, real, I say with respect, like, real Boston. Like, they knew all these connected people and all this, like, dangerous stuff. And I grew up in Lexington, so there's something about the first generation that gets to safely express themselves in a place that doesn't really celebrate expressing yourself. You know what I mean?

A (4:26)

I do know exactly.

B (4:27)

I'm like the first, I'm like the first dog that escaped the porch, you know, And I ran real fast and I, I sometimes catch my dad, I think, having warm, like, pride that, like, he provided a life for me, that I was like, safe to tell people about my insecurities or my fears or whatever it was. And he never really got to have that. And I think he think. I hope. Quiet. He's a. He's a Boston dad, so I can't know for sure, but I think he thinks it's pretty cool that I've gone the other way and. And that I had a. A cozy of enough of a. Or a safe enough of a life to be like, you know, he. He must look at my standup, like, what are you doing? You know, like, why are. Why are you admitting that you know, or whatever it might be?

A (5:10)

No, man, I totally relate to that. That sounds exactly like my dad, like, 100. So I wanted to ask you, like, I do watch you on stage, and I speak for a living, but I. What I want to make today is like, lessons of success. We're going to talk a little bit about God, you guys, and. But lessons of. Of winning. I'm just curious. Some of these. Some of the people in Stand up, I've had on. I've asked, were you funny originally? And were you good originally? And they're like, no, it took me forever. I bombed. In your case. Were you good, like, right out of the gate on stage and in stand Up? And it's okay if you were. Some people try to make it, like, oh, I was terrible.

B (5:42)

Yeah, great.

A (5:43)

Were you.

B (5:44)

You know, the classic. Is that Chappelle was good the first time he went up. What? I. You know, it's interesting. I really, like. I hope you don't mind the term self help. I think motivation is very interesting, and I read a lot of that stuff and grew up and changed my life, so I hope I'm not. It doesn't sound pandering if I speak in these terms, but it's true. I would gauge my success based on my environment. So I. I wasn't measuring myself against Jerry Seinfeld or. Or, you know, the greats, like, the people that were huge. I just wanted to be one of the better people at the open mic. And. And I didn't do that consciously. I just. I knew it would overwhelm me if I was like, am I great? You know, I'm talking about when I really first started. I just was like, was I in the top five of this awful open mic? So that I will say pretty much from the beginning, even though I wasn't very good, I was pretty conscientious. I would write. I would have, like, a theme. I remember at an open mic at the Comedy Connection in Faneuil hall, the host went up and I didn't do very well. It was probably the second or third time I went up. But my parents were there and they remember this too. He got up on stage as real pro. You know, he'd been doing it 20 years. And he goes like, that's how you do it. He goes beginning, middle and end. He was talking about something like, I, I was, I was a student of it. I studied. Like, oh, a lot of these things end with. I didn't know it was called a callback. But you call something back, something you established at the beginning. It's a good way to cue to the audience that you're done. And you go. And I look at him and it's. It's the clown from before or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. So I did that. I did it kind of like conscientiously. And I, I feel like even in those early shows, I was like, at my level, at the amateur level, I was in the top three consistently. And that's what I tell people when I start. I go, don't measure yourself against Bill Burr. Go to an open mic. You'll laugh, you'll be like, look, it's just, it just is awful at the beginning.

A (7:42)

Yeah.

B (7:43)

Not throwing shade on. We're just all awful. So go and just see if you can be one of the three best awful people. And, and that's a good. I, I do feel like I was, you know, in that top three at most open mics.

A (7:59)

That's probably good advice for anything.

B (8:01)

Yeah, right.

A (8:02)

Like, whatever your stage is, don't compare your chapter one to chapter nine of someone else. Same time.

B (8:07)

You ought to paralyze you.

A (8:09)

You think you should show some proclivity to being decent at something in the beginning. Like, maybe that's a sign. Like, hey, you, this might be your lane. You know what I mean?

B (8:18)

Well, the tricky thing was stand up. Not so much when I was starting, but when people tell me they want to be stand ups now, I'm like, are you sure? Because a lot of times I think you're saying, I want to be rich and I want to be famous. Because standup is culturally relevant right now. Believe it or not, when I started in 2000, 2001, it wasn't as relevant. It was still kind of like a fringe activity. Not entirely, but it wasn't. They didn't have as many standups like hosting snl. It wasn't. We weren't selling out Madison Square Garden. I just mean my people, we weren't selling out Madison Square Garden. So, like, you really got to get clarity on, is it what you want or are you just A guy who lives in Cooperstown, New York, and you think you want to be a baseball player, you know what I mean? Like, just because it's what's around. But if you go and you're good, that's a real. And how it feels to do good, that's really the big clue is I would do good and I would feel. I've never done cocaine, but it's got to be what it is. I. I would. I would feel elated, like this vibrating, buzzing euphoria and excitement, like. And I would get up, excited to keep doing it, you know, that's not to say there wasn't a lot of fear. There was a lot of fear. There's a lot of dry heaving. There was a lot of anxiety. There were a lot of ruined birthdays and holidays because I had a show booked two weeks in the future and I just couldn't relax because I wasn't good.

A (9:36)

Yeah.

B (9:37)

Hard to know you're going to get your ass kicked in two weeks.

A (9:39)

It's really good point though, because I was thinking, like, there are things I've been pretty good at. There's a. Well, there's a million things I'm not good at, but there's been some things I'm pretty good at that it didn't juice me when I was good at it.

B (9:51)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (9:52)

But like, for me, like on stage, speaking, like big arenas or big crowds or whatever, or just like this like human connection stuff sort of like, really impacts me. One of the things that held me back. I'm just curious because I watch you. I think one of the reasons you're kind of compelling to me is like. And just haven't met you, even off camera for a few minutes, I can tell. I think I'm right. Like, you're. You're a nice guy. And what I mean by that is like, some of my friends that do what you do are like, I don't give a crap what anybody thinks. There's a. There's a hard edge to them almost. I'm wondering, do you. Do you care a lot of what people think about you? And did that hurt you in any way or help you, like, in progress on stage? Like, in the beginning, were you evaluating too much? How am I doing? Do they like me? And does that still affect you to this day?

B (10:40)

Less. But I actually think at the beginning that's a good wound to have. It is a wound wanting people to like you. It's also a type of. It can be narcissistic to want everyone to like you. It's just another way of controlling people. But if that was a survival technique, as it was for me, that doesn't mean it's all bad or anything. I just learned I can be safe if I make everybody happy and if I make everybody kind of think I'm the golden boy. That is really good. When you're starting, I'll speak for myself. That was really good for me because when I, when I tell people when they're doing stand up, I just say, you know, when would you laugh? Just put yourself in the audience and when would you laugh? That's a hard question because sometimes you just go, oh, no. You realize you wouldn't like you either. Yeah. But like, you're in the business of trying to kind of like Inception, get inside somebody and change their chemistry. And it's a good thing to be really compelled with what people think about you. And a lot of times when I watch stand ups, I'm just like, you got to make these choices. Am I going to go with what you think I am? Am I going to go against what you think I am? But either one of those choices, you know, the prerequisite is to know how people receive you and then you can make these choices. But if you don't know who you are and if you don't know how they probably feel about you, you kind of lost. You're in a sandstorm. So I think that's a, that's a good compulsion to have is to want. Maybe the same could be true if you want people to not like you. They're those provocateurs that like that sort of stuff. But both people, it's just both ends of the same spectrum. I'm interested in how people feel. I care about how they feel, and I'd like to be in charge of how they feel.

A (12:20)

That's. Oh, there you go.

B (12:22)

Yeah, right.

A (12:23)

Yeah, that's different. And I, I'm noticing this now. This is going to sound everybody like I'm looking way too close. But like, most of my forget stand up for a second, but just my friends. But stand ups in particular, I'll text them during their special and go, oh, you used silence really well right there. Or whatever. I'm looking at every little subtlety and I've been thinking about you. Like, because how, how is what you're good at doing translate to someone listening to this today. Right. And so I watch your comedy. You're hilarious, you're deep. But I'm going to tell you, there's a little thing you do I don't know if you know you're doing it or not. You sometimes laugh at your own jokes before you've said the punchline.

B (13:02)

Yeah.

A (13:02)

And you smile a lot on stage that Everybody does that. I think the best salespeople that I.

B (13:09)

I was going to make the same point.

A (13:10)

Were you?

B (13:11)

Yeah.

A (13:12)

Do you know purpose? Is it who you are? Because, like, the people I trust the most that are trying to sell me something, I see them warm and smiling, and I'm almost. I'm almost smiling back and nodding at them before they've even asked me for whatever the order is.

B (13:27)

Yeah, yeah.

A (13:28)

Your comedy, or is it just, like, who you are on stage?

B (13:31)

No, no. Well, I think it is who I am, but that doesn't mean it's authentic. Like, if people said, I'll give you $10 million, don't laugh during your set, of course I could not laugh. You know what I mean? And of course, there are shows that I'm doing that I don't feel like laughing often. A special taping is one of those times, like, you're not really feeling. Feeling super chill, but you're trying to mimic. The whole thing is trying to lean towards an aspect of you that is naturally occurring but might not be the majority shareholder of your personality at that moment. But I'm trying to. I'm trying to control how they feel. I'm trying to control how I feel. And it's a benevolent manipulation. Usually manipulation sounds bad, right? But if I want you to come to my show and every. A lot of stamps I know feel this way. I want you to go on vacation. I want all your problems to be way, way, way far away. I want you to finally put all that down and feel like you're six years old again and you're getting tickled. I want you to be joyful and light. I'm going to use every tool I have. Is. Are some of them less than 100% authentic? You're goddamn right. I'm just the hardest thing in the world, in my opinion. Make people laugh for an hour, an hour and 15 minutes. It's really hard. It's energetically draining. It's mentally demanding. So Chappelle, I learned that. I wouldn't say I ripped it from Chappelle, but, you know, steal from the best. He does that thing where he hits the mic on yes. Yeah. I move the mic away from my face. That's a way of cueing to them. Because my wife told me. She's like, pete, people want to laugh, but sometimes they're worried they're going to miss something. So you move the mic away to say, I'm not talking right now. And then the laughing or the smiling is another way to indicate that. Like, I'm showing you the sheet music. My part, my part, your part, your part. You're not just laughing when the chemical happens. You're laughing when the chemical happens and you feel like it's appropriate in the show to laugh. You're looking for your cue. And that's why Chappelle cues people. That's why I'm cueing people. And it's funny. I remember reading something about salesmen that they would nod their heads, someone would open the door, and they'd already be subtly nodding their head. So when they say, like, do you have a moment to talk to us today? The person would be more inclined to say, yes. But now that's a. That's manipulation. Comedy, entertainment, storytelling, music, sales, teaching, it's all manipulation. I'm manipulating you. You're manipulating me. You know I don't mean it in a bad way. I. We're cueing each other. That's what a good conversation like this is. The tone of my voice is telling you, and now I'm winding down. That's a manipulation. And now I'm done. See, now it's your turn. Aren't I queuing you?

A (16:32)

Well, Ed, you are queuing me.

B (16:33)

Perfect. And that's what you're doing.

A (16:35)

Yes. Peter Benedict, very well done. So if you guys see me online, here's the bottom line. Shopify is probably involved. Like when I first started this podcast, for example, I felt like I had to figure everything out on my own. Scripts, setup, filming schedule, logos. It was so overwhelming. And it seemed like every day I had to make a new decision. And so finally then I found Shopify and my life changed. Most all my businesses involve Shopify online. So whether you're starting off new or you got a little to do list that keeps growing every day for new tasks, I can tell you right now, you don't have to have this much stress in your life. Shopify can help you. You just gotta find the right tool. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses, including mine around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like the Ed Mylett show to brands just getting started, like when this show got started. So get started with your own design studio. So start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com mylet go to shopify.com mylet that's shopify.com mylet so Sprint could be a natural reset point. And if you've been putting off cleaning up the messier parts of your business, now's the time. And here's the bottom line. Probably the messiest part you've got. Where the biggest leaks are is in your communication system, onboarding calls, accountability for your sales teams, all of these different things. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo. It's spelled quo. The smarter way to run your business communications. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2 with over 3,000 reviews. Built for how modern teams communicate. 90,000 businesses use them. From solopreneurs all the way to growing teams. You can stay connected with one central number as well. Quo works wherever you are, right from an app or on your phone or your computer. It lets you keep your existing number and then add new numbers for teammates in just minutes. So make this season where no opportunity and no customer slips away. Try quo for free plus 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com mylet that's q u o.com mylet quo no missed calls, no missed customers. There's nothing you do that I think transcends career or like the lane you're in. And most people don't know. They don't even, they're not even conscious of this when they're watching a special or they're just going to a club. You're up there when you, by the time you get to your special, you have been telling most of those jokes for a year. Yeah. Over and over. You're working out the bit, the sequence, the line, the, the, the, the. The tonality, the pacing, all of it. But what you have to do is tell it like you've never told it before. Like it's the first time. And I don't think most people that are watching stand up appreciate that skill set. And here's why I ask it. I think like as a dad or like as a salesperson or a leader in a company, it's the 19th time you've covered your core values or your mission or your pitch. And what happens to most people is they fatigue on saying it. And it sounds like you've said it before rather than being the only time you've ever said that line. The only time you've asked for that close. The only time you've sold the vision of the company to somebody. Yeah, you do that first. That Is right. Right. You've had that bit a year. You've been sitting on that bit for a while.

B (19:51)

Yeah, no, that's a great insight. Really. I'm thrilled with that question because it's underreported and I think every comedian is different. When I was starting, everybody was like, you got to perform every night. And I think at the beginning I did, after perform every night, it was about reps, it was just about muscle memory, it was just about doing it. And then at a certain point, I don't even know what it was. It might have been 15 years and 10 years in, I don't know, around there. I started going like, I'm a fatigue guy. Like, if I tell the joke too many times, it'll die. It literally will stop working. Because it turns out talk about how you're coming off the joke is how you feel about it and you lost the feeling. So I'm getting mad about trumpets or whatever or electric eels. Like I have all these silly jokes where the joke is that I'm using the tonality of Bill Burr, who might be ranting against politics or something. I'm using that to talk about that. There's a berry called Boysenberries. Like, that's the joke. If I do boysenberries too many times, it'll dry up. It's. I say it on stage. I'm talking to myself on stage all the time. I go, I don't want this to feel like a job. So when I start, I usually do grab ass riffing, doing a bit I wasn't planning on doing all in the first 15, 20 minutes. And if it doesn't work in quotes, meaning it doesn't get like a smashing laugh, I'll straight up tell them, guys, this is an excuse to hang out. Like you're waiting for the hot joke, you're waiting for the big line. And it's this. I go, this is your life. That sounds like your lane, doesn't it? Go, this is your life. Yes, Be, be here. Like, join me now. Like, you're in this crowd. You'll never be in this crowd again. Look at the person next to you and go, goodbye forever. Like, this is it. And like it's establishing again a benevolent authority. I'm saying I'm not here to ask you if these jokes are funny. I'm going to assume the position of someone who's going to be the authority on what's funny for your sake. It's like, I'm going to land the plane. I know Bill Cosby's a Troubling person. He had that line where he said, the pilot can't get on the PA and say, I'm going to try to land the plane. You say, I'm going to land the plane. Or you actually say, even better, we're going to be touching down at 11:15. Like, that's. That's how sure I am, and that's what I'm doing. So even if a joke doesn't work, you demonstrate your calm, right? I'll give you an example. I was just in San Francisco and I was trying to say the word bike, but I said, there's a racial slur that sounds like bike. And I actually said that word. And the whole play is straight. I'm not an alpha in most of my life, straight alpha dog. I don't give. I don't give a. No one here thinks I said that. I didn't even get worked up. I was just like, oh, no, did I say it? And like, I just kind of moved through it because they're taking your cue now. This was San Francisco. It's a very with it place. We don't want. I don't want words like that either. Of course. I'm just saying, yeah, they're looking to you. Am I sweating? Am I nervous? Am I. Am I apologizing? Or am I going, shut the up. I made it, you know, And. And they go, oh, my wife was in the crowd. She's like. Everyone's like, thank God this guy's landing the plane. Now, let me answer your question better because. Sorry, a lot of talking there's.

A (23:14)

It's great.

B (23:15)

It's a really good area, right? So how do you not. The whole job is to go out. I have a mantra. I go, they haven't heard it before. I have two mantras. One is, it's not about the words. It's about the connection. It's about the space between the words. And they haven't heard it before. That usually means slow down and trust yourself. You thought this was funny. Give them a chance. They haven't heard it before. But the. The key is you want to be. I believe this is. Louis CK Said this. Like, the right side of the brain dictates. The left side of the brain communicates. If I catch myself doing the album, that means. Or rating the bit, I'll stop. I'll stop it and get up on purpose or change it or bring someone into it or say, like, I'm sorry, this sucks. Like, you want to nudge yourself into the part that's communicating the joke. So another way to do that that's less disruptive than stopping or less jarring. Say it in a way you haven't said it before. Say it in a crazy way. And now you have to defend this weird. You said dogs are. Whatever it is, it doesn't have to be a hot take. And then the other key. I learned this from my friend Isaac Witty. When I was opening for him, he was like, go out of order. So there's nothing better to keep you in the communication side of your brain. There's nothing better to keep you vital and fresh than to go, I always open with this. Guess what? We're not even going to do it tonight. Let's open with the middle. Let's close with the beginning. Let's drop that. Let's open mic it here. Because sometimes what they need is the energy of you trying something that's not quite done. Maybe they don't want Home Run Derby. Maybe they want to see you. Gary Shandling had this great line. They go, no one cares what Elvis plays. They want to see Elvis. So just be Elvis. Don't be like, oh, and then I gotta do Fools Rush in. And then I gotta do Blue Christmas. Like, get the out of here, B. Elvis. Right? That's how you stop from you guys.

A (25:15)

I hope you're all listening to this the way that I do. Like, I'm thinking about stand up, but I'm thinking about, like, me as a dad for the nine millionth time, telling my kids to be smart. Changing up the sequence. Not like it's. I just be smart, you know? Like I. You know.

B (25:29)

Yeah.

A (25:29)

As a leader or a salesperson. That. It doesn't sound like you've done it a bunch of times. It's so interesting you just said this. I gave a talk yesterday and it was a much smaller venue than I'm used to, you know, and it was, like, going to be awkward. It almost, like, took me back to, like, my beginning of speaking. It was at like a. Okay, hotel with like a handheld mic and, like, you know, wasn't big arena or whatever. And I was worried I was going to mail it in. Like, a lot of you mail in your Monday morning sales meeting with your team or your board meeting or whatever. I thought mama mail. And so I did exactly what you said. I. There's certain things I'm going to get to, but I took some risks. I know I got risk stuff that's going to work anyway.

B (26:12)

Get your heart going.

A (26:15)

Scary. Change the sequence up. And I kind of, like, made fun of myself with It. I had fun with it, I think. And the other thing you said that I just want to make sure I highlight to everybody is assume the position of the authority.

B (26:25)

Yeah.

A (26:26)

For them.

B (26:27)

For them.

A (26:27)

Them. Right.

B (26:28)

The kindness. It's a kindness.

A (26:30)

Yeah, it's. That was bro.

B (26:32)

It puts everybody at ease. But you know, it's funny. So I have, I have a 7 year old. If you catch me looking, I'm just making sure she's not coming in. Sometimes I'll be reading to her or something and I'm like, I catch myself doing the same thing. This isn't a stand up thing. What I'll. I go like, I'll be reading. We're reading the Babysitters Club. The. There's a graphic novel. It's quite good. That's why I mentioned it in case people are looking for something for a seven year old. But sometimes I get overwhelmed. Like these chapters are long sometimes and. And the reading timer goes off. But it's like when I'm one page into the next chapter so we have to finish it. And I'll catch myself just being like I just want to be done. And it's just that moment of consciousness, just that moment of awareness like you had in the small hotel where you go like, wait, I'm stuck. I'm trying to be done snuggling with my daughter, reading her a book. She's going to be 16 and won't want, maybe won't want to hang out with me. Like it's like snap out of it. Become aware. And I'll say to myself sometimes my eyes, it's literally just my eyes are tired and I just go, just this page, just this frame, just this. And I'll look at my girl. She must think I'm. I don't know, she. She's used to it, so she's probably not thinking I'm crazy. But I'll look at her and I'll whisper and I'll be like, hey, here we are. Or something like that. Just something to slap me out of it. I'm dragging ass through the Babysitters Club. And it's not because, oh, I should be. It's like, no, this is my life too. This is. Oh, this isn't. This isn't the path. You ever do that? Like all suffering is going, when I'm done with this, I can watch task with my wife.

A (28:11)

Yes.

B (28:11)

Well, you're doing this right now, so do it. You're in this shitty hotel right now, so do it. And by the way, couldn't relate harder I. My career is littered with gigs where you're just like, I was just at Radio City. You know what I mean, now. And now I'm in the Hyatt or whatever it is. Yes. And there's a Zekart Tolle quote where he says, how you feel right now is how you feel about your life. This is your life. It's not looking back or looking forward. It's just this. And that is really. It can be. It can make me go like, okay, so let's enjoy this. Let's enjoy this. Just this page of the babysitters.

A (28:45)

I am so with you, bro. I think a lot of people that achieve, like, I. I've been addicted to the next moment all of my life. Not the one I'm in. I'm going to do the next one. Let me get through this one. And then I'm going to get to that one. And it's something I really. A little thing I've been doing lately. I just said this like an hour ago to somebody. I was like, I become more of, like a witness to myself, and I become more like a witness to the moment. It kind of snaps me into awareness. Like, I want to witness this moment. And for some reason with me, that term, that way of thinking, like, causes me to be present. By the way, I. I also was thinking the other day about, like, I had a good friend come down, spent the last couple days with me, we're playing some golf, and I'm like, all my friends fit a certain profile. They're very different than me. I'm actually really introverted.

B (29:31)

Me too.

A (29:32)

Are you really? Really. It's interesting. A lot of people on stage are. And I'm like, super introvert. So I have a lot of, like, very charismatic, very extroverted, very life of the party friends, which makes all the lifting very easy on me. Right. I can. They all, like, are they very similar? But the other thing that they. They all do is they're. I like them because they're fully present with me, a presence about them. All of my really close friends do. That I lacked when I was young with people that, like. It's the thing I cherish the most in other people. All right, I gotta ask. I've been dying to ask you this. So for what your specific faith beliefs. I'm. It's no one's business, although I know that you have it. I read about you that, like, you thought when you were young you might be a youth pastor. Blows my way if that's accurate. But you have this thing you do, bro, I know you know what I'm going to ask you, but it like, I've watched it pretty probably 50 times and probably sent it, no exaggeration, no exaggeration. To probably 300 people over the last year.

B (30:35)

Wow.

A (30:35)

And it's this notion of, you know what I'm going to ask you. So what do we come from? Right?

B (30:41)

God or nothing.

A (30:42)

We come from God or nothing. And like whatever your faith, belief is specifically, you guys all know that I'm a Christian, but like set that aside just for a second. Like just belief in something greater than oneself, right? Like, would you explain that concept? Like, take them through this God or nothing thing? Because it's like unreal.

B (31:01)

Yeah. Well, it's actually the spirit with which I wrote that joke was to say we're all in the same boat. I was like, we all, we think it's like one side atheists and one side theists. Right? I have issues with both sides. Way more often I'll meet an atheist. I don't want to say more often. I'm just saying very often I'll meet an atheist and I'll, I'll find a way in to talking about spirituality that we vibe with. A lot of times the people that I'll bump up against are people that are really much more rigid in their beliefs. That's going to be a religious person. So I am not on one of these sides. I'm just saying we're on the same side. It's all, it's all the same choice. You either think God created the universe or you think nothing created the universe. But what are we really talking about? It's in both cases, it's something you can't see, touch, taste, photograph and science can't prove. Right? And the part I'm going a little out of order. I haven't done this joke in a while. The part that people make fun of the nothing people make fun of the God people. And they say God doesn't exist. And I'm like, sure. But you know what definitely doesn't exist is nothing. Like, that's the defining characteristic of nothing. Like, can we please just look at this idea that nothing, nothing which we can't even find in the universe, erupted into everything. So something that we can't find existed and spontaneously erupted into everything. That's a magical nothing. That's incredible. And the real, the real like thing that made me feel like I was onto something. I go ask the nothing people what happens when you die. They'll tell you nothing. You go into Nothing. And I go, you mean you merge back with your creator? I go, that's heaven is what I say. So. But when what you see what I'm trying to do there is. I go, same side, same side. Something unknown is doing something we know, not what. Right. We don't know what it is. And my God is no thing. It's not a thing. It's not an object. The God. And I like the word God because it's a good place. I say God is the name of the blanket we put over the mystery to give it a shape. That's what Barry Taylor from AC DC said. And I joke, why didn't I learn that in church? Why am I learning this from Barry Taylor, the road manager for AC dc, who I've met, actually. Turns out he's a. He's a mystic, he's a groovy guy. But. So God is. I like the word God. That works for me. It's easier than saying a metaphor for a mystery. It has more juice. There's something about reclaiming it too, that has a lot of power for me. But where was I?

A (33:39)

Do you spend a lot of time? Well, you were.

B (33:40)

I like that. I blanked.

A (33:43)

I hope everyone replays that last thing. It's the best bit for me in the last 20 years of comedy.

B (33:50)

Oh, thank you.

A (33:51)

It is the best bit. And it actually makes me actually really emotional. But I'm curious.

B (33:58)

I love it too.

A (34:00)

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B (36:49)

What's on. It's a little bit unfortunate is that I feel like more and more I do feel like I can articulate what I believe. And what's unfortunate about that is I do try to maintain some. Of course I don't know. And we still have experiences and intuition that we're like, it's something I don't know. I Don't think my mind can perfectly articulate it. It's like if I speak of it, I'm a fool, and if I'm silent, I'm a coward. Yeah, you're just like, I'm going to speak about it, and it's not going to be right. In fact, one of the times I think I'm farthest from it, from the truth is sometimes when I'm talking about it, that's something that I've noticed.

A (37:27)

I know exactly what you mean.

B (37:28)

You know what I mean? So my hope, I'd say my practice something. Something that I'm trying to work on is people ask me about this, and I'm like, is it possible to, like, just keep one foot in the pool while I talk about it? It's really. It's really tricky because I go into my head and I start trying to, like, lay out, like, a metaphysical argument. But what I like to say in times like this, or what I'm compelled to say now is I think God is awareness. I think there's only one awareness, and I think that's what Jesus was pointing us to. And I think one of the points of life is to remember that we belong to each other and to help each other. As my. As my homie Ramda said, walk each other home just because. Not to be right conceptually, but to be rid of fear and. And to not. And to rid of ourselves, of hate and othering. That's. I think that's why these things matter.

A (38:21)

Well, that's. That's awesome. Do you. Do you ever pray, like, before you go on stage, if you're scared or nervous?

B (38:31)

I say it's just us cats. I like to say that because in my. In my belief, this is sort of like God's dream. That's one way I would. I would quickly explain this. Like, we're all in the mind of God. So when I catch myself being nervous, it's because I'm believing that these things, these people in the audience are other than myself. But if I can own the idea that we're all the same thing, that there's nobody in the other boat, that it's just us cats, that helps me calm down. So that's not a prayer, per se, but. But it's me trying to remember. I say this all the time, Ed, but maybe. Maybe you'd like it in the prodigal son, right? All he does is remember that he's the man's father and there's nothing he could do to be less the man's Son or more the man's son. So he's already the man's son. It's. And I feel that way about all of us. We already belong to this one thing. So if I can go out and recognize, it's more like. Recognize that it's just us. It's just play. It's just a dance. It's just an excuse to hang out. It's just an excuse to love. Just an excuse to remember because when you laugh, you're not really there. We're all kind of empty. So we can really have a good chance at merging together. That makes me less nervous.

A (39:50)

Wow, man, that's so good.

B (39:53)

I mean, you must experience that talking to thousands of people. Sometimes you get that feeling like, oh, wow, we're all in the pocket together.

A (40:00)

Yeah, Well, I know this. The part that I definitely relate to is the part of if. And there are times where, like, it separate from them and I've made it about me. Like, they think of me or how well I'm doing, or do they think I'm incredible or am I killing this right now? Yeah, typically, I suck. But when I am connected with them, I feel like they feel that we're connected. When I. When I give that sense and when I don't, it. I suck. And so.

B (40:31)

Well, that's. That's wholeness. Right? So holy is a derivative of. Of wholeness. So the idea of wanting to be like a show, being a holy thing is because you came in as Ed, you sat in an audience, you merged with a performer. It became a show. Like we all became a show. Like, that is dropping yourself off at the door. That's part of the. The fun of it.

A (40:58)

You know, you're just saying that. I was thinking that's what a great leader does in a house, in their home. That's what a great leader does in a business. I wish the leaders of either of the two parties did that politically anymore. Like, trying to make it us instead of them and me. And by the way, I think both parties do that. But I. I just. I also like. I like what you said earlier. When you're on stage and you go, this isn't working. I would love one of our leaders at one point to go, hey, I screwed up.

B (41:26)

I know.

A (41:27)

I'm sorry.

B (41:28)

And we don't have an allowance for that. You know, it's not culturally. We don't. I have. I've friend. So my friend who I used to go down. You said you were in Laguna. I'd go and hang out with Rob Bell and He was a pastor and he's, he's a great man.

A (41:43)

I know who he is. Yeah.

B (41:45)

Yeah. And I used to talk to him. I was just like, I just don't know why a pastor can't get up and be like, I woke up and had a lot of doubt today. Yeah. Or I just, I just don't believe it today. I know I'm depressed. I like, they become like, not everywhere, but a lot of times pastors and politicians become like corporate logos or something. It's like you're Mickey Mouse or your Coca Cola. You have to be fizzy, you have to be bubbly, you have to be sweet. Like, that's the job. And, and when I see a politician, like, remember when Howard Dean was like, yeah. And we were like this guy. Like, that sucks. We're so binary. We're like, you're either cool or you're not. So they become the most like studied. It's almost sociopathic. Like, they have to be like everything they do. Hillary Clinton has hot sauce in her bag. Is anyone buying this? But that's just their job. I actually feel bad, like it sucks that to get votes you have to pretend you had cholula in your bag. You look like saltines. You're. You don't have cholula in your bag. But that's what every politician, it seems. And every pastor has to play the part of a pastor. And it's like a 24 hour role. And that sucks. That's why I think it's really fun that you to be a comedian and I can, I feel free to say anything. And I think it makes it more interesting that I choose to be like, hey, let's talk about this. I don't have to.

A (43:12)

I do totally too. I think it's gutsy and I, it's interesting. Like, I'll even catch flack from people from today where I said, sometimes I question what I believe. To me, like, even those of you that are deeply religious, like, well, if you have a relationship with someone or something, these relationships go through this. That's how they grow. We're questioning it. If there's never some strife, if there's never any doubt in your relationship, it doesn't grow any stronger. So anyway, I want to get completely deep. But I think it's actually a healthy thing to have that. The second that I want to ask you earlier, because you said it earlier and I'm really, I really like, like dig in on this. He said, when I was starting out, was I like in the top three at the open mic night. And then, you know, when I was in the clubs, size clubs, am I in the top three there? Or whatever. How much of that is good? And then when is it bad? Like, do you. You see Bill Burr blowing up or Sebastian blowing up? And even in life and business, it's like, people are really good friends with people, and then it feels like until your success threatens them. Or people have this belief that, like, if. If Joe's doing really well in business, he's taking part of the pie that I could have had, I'm going to do less. So they almost root against. So how much of that, like, in your world, like, are you. There's got to be a little bit of you that's competitive. Like, hey, I want to be regarded as great and I'd love to fill up an arena at the same time. So are you. What do you. Do you find yourself a little bit too competitive? When should that stop? You get the question?

B (44:44)

Yeah, I. It's interesting this has been coming up this week in other conversations as well, even admitting to you that when I was an open micr, that I wanted to be. Let's, let's, you know, cut the crap. I wanted to be the best one. I didn't want to be in the top three. I wanted to be the best one, you know, and part of my strategy as a nice person and not meaning, like, I thought about it, but, like, I wouldn't say something like that, but even that is to be like, I'm also going to be the nicest person here. I'm going to win that as well. So there's all sorts of competition going on. What. What came to mind is Neil Brennan is a dear friend of mine, and he had this. He's great. He had this great line where he's like, comedians aren't friends. It's a bar fight. And occasionally you're punching in the same direction as the guy next to you, and it gives the illusion that you're friends. And I'll say this, I left Los Angeles. I have a lot of friends now that aren't comedians. That's been really good for my heart, for lack of a better term. And I see that as really true. Like comedians, I think of us as pirates. Like, we're always kind of like, where'd you get that gold? Where'd you get that chest? Where. Where is that? Where are those seven seeds? Like, it's never entirely chill. There's always going to be a little bit. And that's what we like about each other. We Also relax around each other. To mix metaphors again, we're a little bit like assassins, and we hang out and we have our briefcases with our rifles and we wear our black leather gloves. And it's nice to just not pretend that we're not assassins with each other. It doesn't necessarily lead to the richest inner life. I'll admit something that I'm not proud of. When I go on Netflix, it's really hard for me because I see every face is just somebody else that got another special or something, and I have a Netflix special. It's still. There's a part of me that is still fighting as if his life depends on it. And it takes a lot of conscious effort. Like, sometimes literally in my imagination, sitting that person down and being like, that's not what's happening. That's not what you think. Like, it's a depravity thing. You think, this person got it, so you're not going to get it. Relax. And then. And then a very practical step is like, go to gratitude. I also just keep my head out of it. I'm not on social media. I'm not on. I don't even like going on Netflix. Like, I'd rather just find what I want to watch and say it into the. Into the remote. Just kind of stay out of it. So I can just be in my lane, my family, my job. I want my act to be as good as possible. I'll either sell it or I won't, or figure it out. Put it here, put it there. Just keep your eyes on your own paper.

A (47:32)

Do you think there's a point, by the way? Same here. I've gotten much better at that. Like, I'm. I actually feel genuine happiness when my peers are doing well. Now, that doesn't mean I don't want to be number one. But before, I used to think, man, if they're doing well, maybe that means I'm not, you know? And I don't have a lot of that anymore.

B (47:51)

I don't think when I'm. When I'm clear, I'll think something like, we were talking about Sebastian. Sebastian's selling out arenas. I'm like, it. Rising tide lifts all the boats. And that's true. I started doing colleges as a young man. That was the first thing I did. And I told this to Dane Cook. I was like, more people were at my show because of you, because you made comedy cool. So instead of being a hater, I call that comedy cancer. If you go around being like, this guy, that guy, this that, that it's gonna kill you. It's going to kill you. You need to make that little effort to go because these kids love Danes. They might see a comedy poster and go, I'll go see some guy I don't know. And they did. And now they might be my fan. That, that doesn't mean now I've won. It just means, like, it's good for all of us. Sebastian's good for all of us. Bill is good for all of us. Mulaney is good for all of us. Amy's good for all of us. This is same team. I like, I try, but it does take effort to go. We're all in this together. It's not me versus you.

A (48:57)

And again, I hope you're all hearing this like you're not in comedy, but you're in your industry or your life or your friends. Interesting. You brought up Dane. Dane's been on. And another Boston guy, by the way.

B (49:06)

Yeah.

A (49:08)

What was interesting is, you know, he was pretty. He's been pretty open about like his challenge time of his career, you know, with his brother taking advantage of him. And maybe you couldn't maintain that level of notoriety forever and stuff. And myself, I'm curious what you think about this. And we only got a time for a couple more things, unfortunately, because I'd spend three hours.

B (49:28)

But I'm enjoying this too. Thank you.

A (49:30)

I am. Really, man. I really am. I knew I would. Do you think that there's. If you're giving advice to someone who's like, on the climb, like Dan's climbing, like you're climbing, like I've climbed.

B (49:40)

Yeah.

A (49:40)

I said this to someone recently. There is a point on the climb where, like, at least for me, like those first rungs were worth every trade off. Like that rung becomes a trade off to climb to the next level. You're going to miss a family birthday party or, you know, some of your mental health ain't going to be completely together. So there's these rungs you climb in life and for the most part, the trade off to get to the next rung level on the ladder was worth it. But I think maybe there's a point where you do need to evaluate the rungs, so to speak, and the trade off. Like, at some point when you do have a family and you do have a wife and you do have children, do you buy into that? Like, at some point you do need to evaluate what it's costing you so hard.

B (50:27)

So, Ed, if it makes you feel good, I hope it does. These are great Questions.

A (50:32)

Thank you.

B (50:33)

These are great questions. They really are, and they're coming from somebody. I, I feel like we have, we must have a lot in common, because that is what it is. And if there's something. If I were to give every, if every comedian working today, it would be a terrible audience sat down and I could. We all got to talk for 15 minutes, like Ted. My talk would be about balance. And I, I, I can't. I just don't see a lot of guys even going for it, even trying for it. And they've bought into this idea and they have agents and managers and, and people on the payroll. People say things like, make hay while the sun's out. And I'm like, motherf. Er, how much hay? How much hay do you need? Yeah, like, it's too much hay. And the people, you know who's telling you make hay while the sun's out? The people that get 10% of your hay.

A (51:27)

That's right.

B (51:28)

So my wife and I have a. We've covered a lot of mantras here. They're all simple, but we go, good life when. Good life When? When are we going to do that? And at a certain point, I went. For me as a performer, one weekend a month is right. For me as a father and a husband and a friend, one weekend a month is right. I'm in a very great place in my career where I can do one weekend a month. I don't have to hustle and do four weekends in a month. But to give myself the credit, most people would just say, do the four weekends, and I go, but good life, when a daughter is a great way to go to see the passage of time. Those babysitter clubs, bedtime readings, we do night swims, we go on bike rides. I am, I look at my comedy like a cactus. This is my strategy. How little can I feed it? Because, because comedy is actually, and I think I'm at the top of my game. If you come and see me, what I'm doing now is better than what I was doing five years ago. So it's not suffering. I, I'm, I'm keeping an eye on the levels, but I want to water it as little as possible. That means I do one week a month. I do one Largo show here in LA a month. That's enough for me to write and produce. And when I'm about to go on the road, I usually do one or two sets in town just to get the dust off. That is the minimum. And when I do Ed, nothing changes. When I Do the improv or the store. I want people to say, that was the best guy. And I can't always be the best guy, but sometimes I'm the best guy. And it means a lot to me to be like, you guys don't even know I'm going to be hitting a pinata tomorrow. You don't even know that I'm leaving the club. I'm going to drive 90 minutes into the mountains because I want my kid to leave her bike on the lawn. Like it's. It's the big. And just. That's all that's nice to say. Like it's for them. It's also for me. When I watch that Eddie Murphy documentary, he goes, if you pray for something, pray for peace of mind. I was like, this guy gets it.

A (53:43)

I did, too.

B (53:44)

That right?

A (53:45)

Yes.

B (53:45)

That's the line. That's the piece that passeth understanding, right? What you want isn't to just ring the bell every time. You want to have a quality of consciousness that can actually appreciate and bask in the glow of what you've done. You want to be able to sleep. You want to be able to sit on the beach. You want to be able to switch swim. You want to be able to forget what time it is. You want to be able to put your phone in a drawer. You want to go. Like, I'm not even going to look at my finances this week because I know I'm working and I know the bills and every. And we have people for that. Like, that is what I mean by balance. And it's the best. Like, if you saw my life, I'd hand over the footage. You'd be like, wow, pizza comedian. Like, 6% of the time and 94%

A (54:30)

bet I think you're rich. I bet I would live a rich life. And I gotta tell y' all what he just said. You guys, look, there's seasons of your life when you're young and killing it. You gotta climb. Climb, right? Like, I do think there's those times for sure. But I. I gotta tell you all. Let me tell you what that takes. That he just decided, by the way, I've done it too. You all know this. I. I went. I had a TV show with NBC. I'm like, no, I'm not doing it. I'm like, I'm just doing it. And I gotta tell you what that takes. It takes unbelievable courage. It. That sounds easy. Like, I gotta. It is so hard when you're climbing to go. No. When you see people that you. You're competing Against. Let's just be real. Keep climbing and keep going. And you got to sell yourself on your version of life. That's why this whole thing of, like, being a witness of your own life. What matters to you now?

B (55:20)

Yeah.

A (55:20)

And sometimes I think you got to audit a dream. Like, is this still my dream?

B (55:25)

That's good.

A (55:26)

You know what I mean? Is this still what I want? Is this still my dream? It's okay that it changes and evolves or adjusts.

B (55:33)

Yeah, yeah.

A (55:33)

Be a witness. Be aware. Ask yourself some dadgum questions in your life. It's okay. I think quitting on a dream when you're losing, that's quitting. But adjusting on a dream when you're winning, like what you just said.

B (55:48)

Yeah.

A (55:48)

That's more winning to me.

B (55:50)

That's okay. Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I'll give you a good one. Like Hollywood award parties and stuff. I used to think you had to go to that stuff. I was like, everyone here is miserable.

A (56:00)

It's true.

B (56:03)

Every. You, you. It's like a bunch of mirrors. Nobody. Nobody to say, I see you. It's all these look at me's and

A (56:09)

nobody to look at you.

B (56:10)

It's all these people saying, watch me dive. But nobody's watching anybody dive. It's just the people that just want to be watch diving all together in tuxedos. I was like, maybe we can stop doing that. That. That was an easy one.

A (56:22)

That's so good.

B (56:23)

Yeah. So. But, but to your. You already said it, Ed. But like, when I was young, it was. It was absolute insanity. Like, we could have that conversation too. It was insatiable. It was yes to everything. Go, go, go. But I know guys that. That make millions a weekend and they. And they still complain. They don't see their families. And I'm like, please. It's like a type of. I don't want to call it an illness, but it seems like somebody needs to tell you. Please, please stop. Please.

A (56:54)

It's really true. You know what happened for me, I'll tell you this, and then I'll ask you a last question. I'll just share it with you and everyone can listen in. I was with my dad when he died. We were in his home, so we were in his living room. My dad died of cancer and. And it was a really profound, like, thing. First off, my dad became my best friend. He was an alcoholic and when I was young, became my best friend. But it was. It was just. Maybe this sounds simple to everybody and trite, but, like, my dad died in his House. His car was in the driveway. Neither one went with him. You're really not your possessions. You don't take it with you. And then my dad's awards of his life, like golf tournaments. He won or business awards or whatever. They were in the room my dad died in. Yeah, they stayed here. You're not your accolades. Like, you're not those things. When my dad died, he had worries and insecurities and problems. None of those went with him either. You're none of those things.

B (57:55)

That's right.

A (57:56)

You know, and so that. But what's interesting is what he did leave here. And one of the things my dad helped thousands of other people get sober, like maybe start to focus more on who and what you'll matters to you, like your children, like your relationships, like figuring out what you believe about God in life. And there's a season for everything in life. It takes great courage to do what you're doing because you are in that handful of conversation of the greats and to go, you know what? This weekend I'm going to be with my daughter and my wife when they're not. And you're competing. That. You guys. That sounded really nice when he said it. You don't know how difficult that is to call that shot. Because I've called it.

B (58:38)

Yeah. Okay. I've always wanted to have a term for this. Like when we moved into this house, we. We have a pool and we put a cover on it. And we put a cover on it because my daughter was little and, you know, she couldn't swim, so it was for her. But then I love swimming, so I want to heat the pool. I swim in the winter. And then the COVID is, you know, what makes it stay warm. So I did it for her, and then it ended up being for me. So I want a word in English. Something you do for someone else that ends up being for you. Because this is one of them. I only do once a month. Guess what? I look forward to it. I'm better, I'm brighter, I'm eager. I can't wait to get up there. Sometimes, you know, a fluke or I said I couldn't say no to something. I end up doing two weekends in a row. I'm just a little bit more. My voice is raspy, doing the joke. It works. You're like, who cares? It works. It's for them. And then it ends up being for me. It's a pool cover. And there's so many things in my life that are like that.

A (59:39)

Oh, brother. When you figure that out, you're going to have to come on and tell us last. You said it later. Just curious. You said later or earlier, rather, that when they leave, hey, I want them thinking that guy was the best of the night. But overall, like, because I do think there's certain shows I've gone to and I just laugh my butt off. Right. There's other people. You're one of them. That, like, I've also thought about something when I leave, you know, like, I'm a little. Like, this dude was saying something in there, or I felt something. Or is there something you are conscious of? Maybe you're not. Maybe you just want them to laugh. That's it. But do you want people feeling or thinking when they leave a show with you?

B (60:17)

Yeah. Yes. And I want. I want them to be thinking, what is this? That moment when I'm reading with my daughter and I go, hey, we're here. Or that moment when you're giving your talk and you realize you're phoning it in and you snap out of it? I want them to snap out of it. That's what I'm going for. Meaning, I want them to arrive in their lives. And the. The best way to do that is to sometimes directly ask them about the nature of their reality. What this is. I had that bit about we're all atoms. That makes no sense. That makes no sense. I don't understand. These atoms know they're atoms. And there's a certain. You know, there's a quality when someone tells a ghost story. It just kind of brings you into your body. The same thing can happen when somebody's just like, what is the air is also made of atoms. I'm made of atoms. Or become aware of the empty space in your room. And don't you see that you're kind of like that empty space? That's what you close your eyes. You're a vacant field of scintillating knowing wherein sounds and thoughts and you. You can picture a lemon, or you could hear my voice, or you could see what's around you. It all appears in the same empty space that you essentially are. That. That in the same way that a ghost story can. You go like, oh, gee, you snap out of it. Remember in Wall E where he's going Wall E? The Disney movies?

A (61:46)

Yeah.

B (61:46)

He goes around, he keeps knocking into the people that are stuck on their screens and they're drinking their Slurpees. He knocks them in, their screen goes off, and they unplug and they go, oh, hello, where was I? That's what I want. And sometimes the best way to do that is to just go, what is this? Because I'm tired of not talking about it. Like you said, I don't care how you label it, but we're all in this conundrum. It's inexplicably mysterious. And we walk around talking about pants and trophies and what car you drive or what you're going to have for lunch. What. We're in outer space. And even weirder than that, we're in this knowing space where we are a mystery. What we are is a mystery. And we just go like, oh, who do you like on Instagram? Or who did you vote for? This or that? Let's. Let's bring it down. Let's. Let's reduce it down to the, the thing that we all have in common. That we're here, we are. We're aware we're present. And if we're being honest, we're. We're kind of confused. It's.

A (62:52)

So this is an all timer, bro. This is an altar. By the way, remember when I introduced him, I told you that there was a depth there? By the way, here's what's so great about him. You'll get all of that and then you'll get a joke like, do you ever have to poop so bad you pee? Second, there's like, you're gonna get them both, you guys. You're gonna get them both.

B (63:11)

Like, I'm just telling you that you have my permission. By the way, you can say that you're ever in a tight spot, you say it, get the laugh, then go. That's a Pete Holmes joke. You have my blessing because that is one of the best loaded guns I've had in my back pocket.

A (63:24)

It's an all timer, brother, all time podcast too. Like, I want to have you back on. Like, you know what comes out or something. Come back on. And by the way, you can go see him on the road. How do they find out where you're playing on these one weekends a month?

B (63:38)

Pete Holmes. I. I know I said I'm not on social media, but that, that just means I approve what's on my social media. So you can follow me there at Pete Holmes on all of them. And PeteHomes.com is my tour dates. And I will have a special coming out in February on YouTube, which I'm very excited about.

A (63:55)

Go check him out, bro. I enjoyed today a lot. I'm gonna come up, I'm gonna find you on the road somewhere. I'm gonna come see you Please do.

B (64:01)

Please do.

A (64:02)

All right, everybody, max out your life. Share today's episode. I know you will. God bless you.

B (64:08)

This is the Ed Milan Show.