How to Work with Anyone Even the Difficult Ones with Ryan Leak

Summary

THE ED MYLETT SHOW

Episode: How to Work with Anyone Even the Difficult Ones with Ryan Leak

Date: August 19, 2025
Guest: Ryan Leak
Host: Ed Mylett

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on navigating relationships with difficult or “complicated” people—whether at work, in families, or other close circles. Ed Mylett welcomes Ryan Leak, author of How to Work with Complicated People, for a deep dive into practical strategies, underlying mindsets, and real-life tactics for improving collaboration and interpersonal dynamics. The conversation is honest, insightful, and full of actionable advice on transforming conflict, embracing humility, and building understanding.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. We’re All “Somebody's Idiot”

(02:13 – 03:11)

• Ryan opens with a foundational idea: It's easy to think of others as “idiots”—but at times, each of us fits that role for someone else.
• This mindset invites more humility and empathy in every relationship.

Notable Quote:

“Spoiler alert, somebody needs that book for you. And somebody needs that book for me.” – Ryan Leak (02:13)

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2. The Real Source of Workplace Friction

(03:56 – 04:30)

• Ryan shares insight from his experience: Job dissatisfaction is rarely about the actual work; it’s most often about the people we have to do the work with.

Notable Quote:

“You can pull off a very difficult job with people you enjoy versus a dream job with people you tolerate.” – Ryan Leak (04:05)

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3. The Bias Toward People Like Ourselves

(04:30 – 05:19)

• Ed reflects on how earlier in his career, he favored people who mirrored his style.
• Ryan clarifies this is common but limits growth, noting the value of diverse perspectives.

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4. Tactics for Working With Difficult People

(06:10 – 10:28)

• Remain Curious: Ask, “Is there value in the way this person approaches things?” Sometimes, their different pace or method is a needed balance.
• Have Difficult Conversations: Don’t just address symptoms—talk about root issues directly and honestly.
• State Your Intentions: Clearly communicate that your goal is a thriving relationship.
• Use Humility: Say things like, “I could be wrong,” and invite feedback.
• Seek to Understand: Ask, “What do you need from me for this to work?”

Notable Quote:

“I want to have a thriving relationship with you. I want this to work out… What do you think I need to do for us to have a thriving relationship?” – Ryan Leak (08:03)

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5. Headaches of Dealing with Complicated People

(10:28 – 10:58)

• Ryan points out you can either deal with the “headache” of a complicated personality, or the “headache” of retraining someone new.
• “Choose your headache.”

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6. Intentions and Humility in Leadership

(13:02 – 14:23)

• Ed shares advice from John Maxwell: greater leaders welcome being wrong and changing their minds as they grow.
• Apologizing and admitting fault are powerful leadership tools.

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7. Directional Communication

(14:49 – 16:20)

• Conversations are complicated by their direction—upward (to a boss), downward (as a boss), or laterally.
• Leaders need more humility when communicating down and more awareness when communicating up.

Notable Quote:

"You have to consider your end of that. If you’re talking up...be succinct. If you’re talking down...remember what you wanted from your boss." – Ryan Leak (15:36)

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8. Handling Emotionally Charged Relationships

(16:26 – 18:05)

• Ed gives a vulnerable example involving his daughter, choosing humility and listening rather than flexing authority.

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9. The Power of Listening and Team Collaboration

(20:19 – 21:15)

• Dictating creates robots; listening draws out people’s “gold,” creating true teams.
• People are more engaged and creative when they feel listened to and valued.

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10. Four Common (Unhelpful) Responses to Complicated People

(21:41 – 22:23)

1. Avoid them.
2. Cancel them.
3. Try to change them.
4. (Preferred!) Move toward them with understanding.

Notable Quote:

"We want karma for them and grace for ourselves…but complicated people often have a complicated behind the scenes." – Ryan Leak (22:23)

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11. Understanding Others’ Circumstances

(24:26 – 25:08)

• Ryan shares an experience of receiving 3,000 responses to an open “how can I pray for you” text, revealing how much we don’t know about others’ struggles.
• Give grace; everyone’s fighting battles you can’t see.

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12. Not Making People “Projects”

(36:08 – 36:35)

• People aren’t problems to be solved—they’re humans to be understood.

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13. Knowing When to Move On

(34:14 – 35:43)

• Do all you can with humility and intention; after that, recognize if the other person isn’t trying to change.
• Don’t expect folks to change if they’re not interested in it.

Notable Quote:

“Stop expecting people to change who aren’t trying to.” – Ryan Leak (35:43)

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14. Intentional Encouragement & Small Gestures

(41:14 – 44:35)

• Intentionally recognizing birthdays, anniversaries, and children’s names makes people feel uniquely valued.
• Even short, personal video messages can be life-changing and forge deep loyalty.

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15. The Role of Boundaries

(46:51 – 50:14)

• Lacking boundaries causes burnout and unnecessary conflict.
• The awkward conversation to set boundaries is less of a price than long-term stress and fractured relationships.
• Align boundaries with your true priorities—especially family.

Notable Quote:

“Where's all this going?... My definition of success is that my kids still want to go on business trips with me 20 years from now.” – Ryan Leak (47:44)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On humility:

  “I love using the phrase, I could be wrong. Hey, I could be wrong. But this is what I see.” – Ryan Leak (10:58)

• On leadership:

  “There’s a difference in people having to follow versus people getting to follow.” – Ryan Leak (20:39)

• On encouraging others:

  "If you can do that, people will feel like, 'man, you see me, I’m valued.'" – Ryan Leak (42:36)

• Ed’s reflection:

  "Of all the men my father ever worked with, I can tell you the name of one—Jerry Farley...because he made me feel special." – Ed Mylett (45:59)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Being someone’s "idiot": 02:13 – 03:11
• Biggest workplace challenge is people, not tasks: 03:56 – 04:30
• The bias toward hiring ourselves: 04:30 – 05:19
• Tools for working with difficult people: 06:10 – 10:28
• Dealing with emotionally challenging colleagues: 07:15 – 10:28
• Intentions/humility/apology strategies: 13:02 – 14:23
• Upward/downward communication: 14:49 – 16:20
• Four common wrong responses to difficult people: 21:41 – 22:23
• Leave room for people to grow and not box them in: 25:12 – 26:29
• Intentional encouragement and the power of gestures: 41:14 – 44:35
• Boundaries and priorities—keeping family at the center: 46:51 – 50:14

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Tone & Language

The discussion is candid, warm, humorous, and loaded with relatable anecdotes. Both Ed and Ryan speak conversationally, often self-deprecatingly, with an uplifting and practical tone throughout.

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Summary Takeaway

"Working with complicated people isn't just about coping—it's about embracing curiosity, humility, and intentional action. Whether at work or home, the relationship comes alive when we approach each other with empathy, listen deeply, apologize sincerely, and make the effort to truly see and value the person in front of us—even (and especially) when that's hard."

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Book:
How to Work with Complicated People by Ryan Leak—A New York Times bestseller offering practical tools to collaborate better with nearly anyone.

Find Ryan:
Follow on social media for ongoing insights and encouragement.

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For more:
Subscribe to The Ed Mylett Show and join the email list at edmylett.com.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info, and if any of them accidentally expose it, you could be at risk for identity theft. Lifelock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. This is the Ed Mylett Show. Welcome back to the show, everybody. Okay, interesting anecdote. A friend of ours, a mutual friend of my guest today, said, hey, I've got Ryan Leak that wants to come on your show. Puts us on a group text. I said, ryan, I know who you are. Let's do an interview. This friend is Rory Vaden.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Then he sends me the book. And it's not the same Ryan Leak. After I agreed to do the interview. But then I read the book. I'm open. I read the book, I go, oh, no, no, no. I definitely want this guy on the show. So actually, the content of your work is so good. I'm like, oh, no, this needs to be discussed because it's a topic which we're going to talk about next that's under discussed and is a massive issue in people's lives, so they don't know how to navigate it. So this Ryan Leak, no offense to the other one, my upgraded guest today has a book called how to Work with Complicated People. And I gotta tell you something. I wanna know a lot of this stuff. So I read the book from the COVID to the end of it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Every word of it took me three days. And it really changed my life. He's worked with everybody from the NFL, you guys Google, Microsoft. And so once I figured out who this Ryan Leek was, I told him also off camera, everybody I know that knows him raves about him and tells me this is gonna be an incredible conversation today. So the real Ryan Leak, welcome to the show.

[B]

Thanks, Ed. It's a pleasure to be here.

[A]

It's so good to have you. So this is perfect segue, since I bl. One of the quotes from the book, I'm like, this will be perfect is you're somebody's idiot. And I'm like, I clearly represent that. But it's one of the principles of working with complicated people. So let's just start there, because I'm a perfect description of somebody's idiot. So tell us about what that means.

[B]

You know, it's this idea that we could live in a world where we think, man, this person's an idiot. And it's just like we have, but we're always somebody's person. That is that person. And so anytime I tell people, hey, I'm working on a book called how to Work with complicated people, they go, yeah, I need that book. And then I go, hey, spoiler alert, somebody needs that book for you. And somebody needs that book for me. It's interesting, we hear this phrase a lot. Toxic work environment or I've got a toxic boss. The problem with that word is no one admits that they are that. I've never met someone say, hey man, I'm going through a lot in my life right now and I'm toxic. People just don't admit that kind of thing. And so it's a word that it's like 72% of America would describe their work environment as toxic. Like it's just thrown out there a lot. But nobody wants to admit that they're that. And so I think that idea that we're all somebody's idiot, it just postures us with a little bit of humility to say, hey man, you know what? Maybe on the other side of me it's a little bit more, you know.

[A]

I never thought about it that way. But when I read that in the book, I'm like, oh, I, I can definitely name several hundred people in my life after 54 years of like, that dude's an idiot. And by the way, there's some great videos about me on social media where I say cavemen lived 300 years. I misspoke. So I'm literally 300 million people's idiot most of the time. So that's just the way it goes. But also what I like about the book, everyone's lean in here is if you actually, and we're going to talk about this today, it's work, but it's also family too. It's basically just interpersonal relationships and how to navigate complicated. So if you go, I don't have a complicated work environment, but my spouse or my children or my mom is, or my mother in law is, or my father in law is. We got some stuff for you today. So is that what made you write the book? Is something in your own life or environment that happened?

[B]

So I do about 120 events a year and I always do a pre event call with every single client and I ask the same questions. Hey, what are the biggest challenges your people are facing right now? What we discovered was that most people's biggest Hurdle to job satisfaction was not their job description. It was the people that they had to do the job with. So you actually can pull off a very difficult job with people you enjoy versus a dream job with people you tolerate. And so we said, man, if we can help people figure out the people side of it, yeah man, it'll make their job a whole lot better.

[A]

Yeah, you know, my issue was maybe still is a little bit, but I didn't realize it till after about 25 years of being in business. I liked people like me. And so if they weren't like me, like I as a young guy, you know, overly competitive, incredibly intense, very verbal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Very. No nonsense. So if you didn't have that criteria, former athlete. So if you didn't have that, you were an idiot. You know, I mean, I'm using your word. I don't think I felt like that strong, but like certainly didn't think they were great workers. And then what I realized after some time was like, actually I already have me, so I don't really need that many more me's. I need people that have all the stuff I don't have. But is that part of our biases or this toxicity in this complicated environment as we seem to only feel our have an affection or an affinity for people like us?

[B]

Yeah, I think we all desire saints. We desire to have that tribe around us that think the same ways, that have all of the same values. But it's not until you have somebody on your team that's a little bit different, that sees the world from a little bit of a different perspective that we can sell to people that have a little bit of a different perspective. They're all bringing something to the table. Doesn't mean you just hire anybody. But most people, they have to work with the people like they don't get to choose unless you're the boss, unless you're the CEO. Most people are like, dude, I'm stuck with Jerry, so what am I going to do with Jerry? So we just try to help people where they're at and say, hey, if you can figure out how to work with this person that and sees the world completely different than you, well then maybe you could lead some people that are completely different than you. So you're practicing for your new job at your current job by developing some of these people skills.

[A]

How do you do it? Like give us a couple things.

[B]

Well, one of the things I think you have to do is you have to remain curious. You have to remain curious. You have to go, man, there's A way that I think work should be done. There's a pace in which I have my. I'm very fast paced, very high energy, very intense. Like, let's move. Well, when all of a sudden I started to realize, well, I got some people on my team that are a little bit slower, and I'm just like, hey, could you. Could you pick up the pace? But then I realized I was actually making mistakes going so fast.

[A]

Yeah, good point.

[B]

And they were actually being very detail oriented. And so there I found a blessing in their pace. To be able to say, you know what? Maybe. Maybe there's a balance here. I need to be a little bit more considerate of their pace versus versus my pace. I think having that posture of curiosity is very important.

[A]

What about understanding? So this is conversations happening on a fascinating day for me. So I have multiple businesses. I guess the podcast is a business. But in between interviews, Steven will tell you, my producer. I had to go upstairs and take a call. I've had a very stressful morning dealing with a employee of mine in one of my businesses that I would say is a complicated person.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And in this particular person's case, whom I love, it is a him. I have enough business. I don't know who I'm talking about. It's a him. But about every three weeks or four weeks, I'm on an emotional roller coaster where this dude is on his way out. I mean, he's just. He's complicated. I also know he may have a proclivity to the melancholy side of life, if that makes sense. The negative a little bit. Right, the negative. And so today I've been dealing with him, and it came to a head again. I'm going to quit. Okay, you're quitting out. And then now he's not. And so how do you deal? Or your perspective on just. And by the way, this could be family. So this could be business or complicated people. And. And also, I'll give you the double. And you know some of their patterns by now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I'm talking about?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Okay, give us some of that.

[B]

I think it's very important that you do two things. One, I think we've lost the art of having difficult conversations. Our friend John Maxwell says it this way. We have to learn to disagree without disrespectful. It's the art of just saying, hey, let's have this conversation. I think being able to go to somebody, family member, coworker, boss, and being able to say these words, hey, I want to have a thriving Relationship with you. I want this to work out. Sometimes what happens is we're almost dealing with the symptoms instead of the root issues. We're not actually talking. We're going, hey, could you rewrite that email? Hey, can you not do that on that project? It's like, wait a. Let's just. Let's actually talk about the elephant in the room. Let's actually have that direct, truthful conversation and say, hey, for us to have a thriving working relationship, here's what needs to change. Hey, here's the part that, what do you think I need to do for us to have a thriving relationship? So I'm coming into it with some humility. It's not all on you. You're not just the whole problem. But I'm going, what is it that you need from me for this to be a thriving relationship? And here's what I need from you. And if we can't meet in the middle, the key word on the book is Strategies for Effective Collaboration with Nearly Anyone. Sometimes they're in the near, and sometimes they don't make the cut. But I think we want to do everything in our part to say, hey, I did everything in my part to make this work.

[A]

You know why? That's brilliant. I kind of, like, almost grunted when he said it. Because what starts to happen when there's strife? Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but we forget or aren't reminded of each other's intent. Intentions get lost in stress. And so what you just said, that's so powerful. There is to start out with. Look, look, my intention. I want this to work out with the two of us. I want this to be thriving. I want you to be happy. I want. Did do that today with this person. So I feel good about it, but. Which is true.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I thought I need to be the emotionally mature one to sort of rise above the emotion to some extent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, the other truth with this person, I need them. In other words, they are complicated, but they are uniquely gifted and talented. They are the juice is worth the squeeze. In other words, There's a squeeze. Yeah, but it's worth it. And so one of the things you say in the book, and this is true even in friends, too, the avoidance of difficult conversations or the avoidance of having people like this in our business life is really to our detriment.

[B]

Well, I think even in your specific situation, you've got two options. You have the options of having two headaches. You either have the headache of dealing with their personality.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or you have the headache of retraining somebody to have all of their skill sets. So it's like, choose your headache. And you do have options on that. I think you exhaust the options of the personality to say, hey, I want to do everything in my power to work this out before I go choose that second headache.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But it is. It is a realization of saying, is there something that I can be doing to help you be more effective in this job? Specifically with our relationship. You keep bringing this thing to the table, and we're rehearsing the same old lines, and so at some point, it's just got to be different. But I think being willing to have that difficult conversation. And I love using the phrase, I could be wrong. Hey, I could be wrong. But this is. This is what I. This is what I see. And what you're saying is, yeah, I got a story in my head about you. I really do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I realize I could be wrong about that.

[A]

You're so brilliant. I'm. This is, like, serendipitous. I texted that to him before the call. You know, I could be wrong, but. And I actually just meant it. Like, I really could be wrong. Like you just said, I love highly tactical podcasts. Like, that's a huge thing to start out a conversation. So we say my intentions are blankety blank. Second tactic that I love, this understanding. Seek to be curious. The third tactic that I love is this idea of, you know, I could be wrong. Could be some humility.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

What happens, I think, don't you, with complicated people? Or maybe we're the idiot, like you said. Like, there's just a. There's this posturing and flexing that goes on, like, at the end of the day, once they're gone or it's resolved, you're like, 74% of this was just posturing and flexing. And I'm more important than you. Don't disrespect me. Like, these just ridiculous notions that we do to one another as humans, they're games, aren't they?

[B]

And I think at some point you stop playing the game.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you just start being a leader. You just start being that colleague that just says, hey, again. I think there's something powerful about stating that intention at the beginning of a conversation. It changes the tone. It changes the motives of the entire conversation. Hey, I really want this to work out. As soon as you say that, there is an immediate okay, I can actually put my defense down because I actually want this to work out too. Now, if you don't want it to work out. Well then, well, now we know where we are.

[A]

Yeah, you're right. I ask a lot of questions. You and I were talking about John Maxwell off camera and you brought him up here. Mutual friend of both of ours and I love him. And we were together doing something. And I said, what's different? What? It's the 70, whatever John is 75 or 8. I said, what's the difference of the 78 year old you and the 58 year old you in terms of being a leader?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he goes, oh, I know exactly what it is. He said, the difference is I don't have to be consistent in my thinking all the time anymore. And I said, what do you mean by that? He goes, I'm open to changing my mind. Yeah, I'm more open to being wrong. He said, when I was in my 50s, I thought if I didn't stick true to what I believed or thought about something, I was being an inconsistent thinker. And he said, now my tolerance for leaders who never, never say I'm sorry, never change their mind with new information is really frustrating to me. So actually I, I really listen with people that I admire. And so in this particular situation today, I also said just for a tactic for everybody, I want your feedback on it. I said, the other thing I want to do is I want to apologize to you because consistently I'm doing something, I mean, where I am not giving you what you need to feel respected and appreciated. As it turns out, it wasn't me at all, it was someone else. But the point is, I think there's also a power to just going, I'm going to be the more humble one, not the flexor. Especially when you're in the position of authority already.

[B]

Do you agree with that?

[A]

Like just humility is such a. It pulls the oxygen or the heat out of the environment pretty quickly.

[B]

No question about it. Especially if you're in leadership. Because there's an automatic intimidation factor that comes in whenever you're especially trying to have a difficult conversation with a difficult or complicated person. In chapter eight, we talk about all of the different directions of communication and leading.

[A]

Can you do a little bit of that too? Sure, yeah.

[B]

So what can make a conversation complicated is the direction of the conversation. Especially when you are having a conversation up, you're having the conversation upwards. There's this intimidation factor when you're having the conversation down. Well, there needs to be a high level of humility because, well, we've all had a boss at some point in our life and we just. What's the number one thing that we would say in terms of the relationship that we had with that boss was that we did not feel like we could always be honest.

[A]

Brilliant. You're right.

[B]

We always felt we had a thought and we go, yeah, yeah, I love it here. It's great. Yeah. No, man. And everything's awesome. You're like, well, everything can't be that awesome. And so you actually have to have a great deal of humility. More humility than they need.

[A]

Great point.

[B]

To be able to lead them well and to actually get real and honest feedback. To be able to say, man, like, there's an intimidation factor that just comes with the role that you have. And so whenever you. Whatever direction it is that you're communicating, you have to consider your end of that. If you're talking up, you're going, well, what's important to them, they've got very little time. And I want to make sure that I value their time and not waste it. There's nothing more frustrating for a high level leader than to have their time wasted. And so being succinct, thinking through some of those things beforehand is important. But when you're talking down, you have to realize you were looking up, receiving a message at some point in your life and you have to go back there and go, man, what did I want to happen?

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

In that moment, you wanted somebody to go, hey, man, I see you.

[A]

I want to share a story with you about exactly what you just said, and I want your feedback on it, but not as a business leader, but as a parent. So a few weeks ago, unfortunately, I haven't even put this out on social media yet, but we lost our dog, Lily. Oh, man, I'm sorry. Yeah, we're very. Everyone that follows me on social, we very close with our three. Yeah, our three Pomeranians. And so Lily was the matriarch. We lost her. Excuse me.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And my daughter's home. It was my daughter. I gave my daughter her. That was her gift as a dog. My daughter happened to be home from college when it happened. Anyway, it was an emotional thing. And as she was passing, there was these discussions of, how many times are I take her to the vet? She was in the hospital for five days. It just got emotionally charged. So just picture an emotionally charged conversation. And my daughter observed my communication with my wife and hers with me. And in the middle of it, my daughter, let's just say, sided with the way her mom was communicating and not me and came to me with firm feedback. We'll put it that way. And I would actually say that's how it was. I wouldn't even say I'm wordsmithing. And in that moment, I had two choices, which was one, to flex. I'm the father, you know that thing. Or to be humble and truly listen to my daughter. And in that moment, I said, you know what? You're right. You're right. And. And I'm going to do what you just suggest. This is from my daughter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I could have said, I paid the bills around here. Then my daughter went to bed and I went into her. I knocked on her door and I said, can I come in for a minute? And I said, just want you to know how right you were. And I apologize. And I thought, hey, right, in these, this last hour, I've been a pretty good dad, a pretty good leader.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

I think it's massive because if you walk into a room and you're simply dictating what everyone should do and say, hey, go make my ideas happen. You have robots. But if you walk into a room and go, let me pull out the gold inside of you, then we all create something together. Now you have a team.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

But you. You had to have listened to everybody to be able to. To pull that off. That is the difference to me between somebody that is leading and people have to follow them and leading and people get to follow.

[A]

Yeah. They lead by position. They don't lead by their actual standing. It's interesting because especially when people come to work with me because I. Whatever. They'll think I as a public person and a guru or like, oh, he must think he has all the answers. And they're usually very surprised. And I go. I actually have to go out of my way to go list me. I really want to know what you think. Okay. Like, I know what I think.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

There's no more space for what I think. I want to know what you think. And I think that sends a message to people. You are valued and you're appreciated. You have the book. I just want you to give them this gift because there's so much in the book. You could give away anything I ask you to be good. But you have basically the four responses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That you teach in the book to complicated people. To kind of avoid. Right. So here's what's not to do. And I love these because you write on all of them. What are those?

[B]

So the first thing that you could do with a complicated person is you can avoid them, which a lot of people. Which I do a lot say, hey, let me just. Let me just do my best to avoid talking to this person. Instead of meetings with them, which, again, you don't buy books to avoid people like, nobody does that. You're already good at that, so you don't need my help with that. And while you can do that, I don't think that's the growing version of you. I think there's better options. The other option is you could cancel them. You could just say, you know, I'm done with this person altogether. I mean, you could. But the only problem is none of us like being on the other end of being canceled. The other option is you could try and change them. Right? And it's just like that lives with the mantra that says, the world would be a better place if you were just like me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the world wouldn't be a better place. You think the echo chamber is what you need, but that's not how you grow either. Again, you can try it. You're grown. You can do whatever you want. But the fourth option that we tell people to do in the book, which is like the hope. Hope of the book completely, which is to try to move towards someone with understanding. Because every single one of us has had a moment where we were misunderstood. And in that moment, we were thinking, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, you misread it. No, that. That wasn't my tone. I know I text it, but that wasn't the tone in which I use. And like, in that moment, we all want our day in court, but when it's somebody else, it's like, well, we want karma for them and grace for ourselves. And so when we have this posture of saying, you know what? I want to move towards this person with understanding, what we discover is that complicated people often have a complicated behind the scenes. And when we begin to see what they were going through, when we begin to see, oh, wait, they lost their dog. Oh, wait, he had a very emotionally charged conversation with his daughter last night, and now he's having one with me. And I. But I didn't know that. But once I know that, I go, oh, the conversation changed. Even though the words were the same, the understanding postured me completely different. And so I think when we are the kinds of people that make a decision, says, man, I'm not going to jump to conclusions about people because I hate when people do it to me. I actually want to be slow, to talk, quick, to listen, and be one of those people that go, man, I'm sure there might be more going on behind the scenes than I could ever see. I send out a text. Text. It's an encouraging text to thousands of people every single week. One week. I. I sent out the text. I said, hey, is there anything going on in your life that I can pray for? I'm a person of faith. I said, man, I. Let's just see if what's going on with people in the world. This isn't a church group. These are all corporate people that I'm texting. I got 3,000 responses. Oh, one hour. Whoa. And my phone blew up. Whoa. With insanity. And my first thought was, I guarantee you their boss doesn't know.

[A]

You're so right.

[B]

And they. They're just gonna go to work. I sent that out on a Monday, and guess what they're gonna do? They're gonna go to work on a Tuesday. And so I often tell people, I say, hey, the people you work with, they're going through something they would never tell you. They say, how do you know? I could show you my phone.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

And so if you knew what they were going through, you would go, man, let me give them a pass.

[A]

Little grace.

[B]

Because it's what you and I both want.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's just that we have to get in that position of being the kinds of people that give that thing that we want the most.

[A]

I'm loving this. Just so you know. Like, I. I wonder if part of it is we do. You know, we talk a lot in person of, Omo. Like, our own biases or our own worldview. I also think when someone's been in your life a while.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You think you know who they are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're like, okay, that's the. That's the victim one. That's the one who gets set off really easy about this. That's the emotional one. That's the one who really doesn't care as much as everybody else. That's the lazy one. And we've kind of got them sort of. And so then when they behave in a certain way, we just put them back in the box they're in. Rather than thinking that it could actually be circumstantial or conditional. It's just like, oh, that's what. You know, they. That's what they do. They fly off the handle. Do you agree with that? Like, we almost. And so we're actually not dealing with people as a human being. We're dealing with them as an idea of a human being. This is important. Everybody. I want you to lean into this, because I'm. I'm old, so I've done this and I've looked. I started to deal with people when they would behave a particular way as an idea of a human, not a nuanced person who's capable of range and depth. But like, oh, that's the one that they always do this. When in fact, it may be circumstance or conditional or they may be right. So I guess we fall into patterns of beliefs about people, and then we never allow them to vary out of it. And so we respond emotionally to them as a result. This is. This is in personal life, even maybe more than business.

[B]

Absolutely. And it's just not fair to all of us. And here's why. I used to hear all the time. You know, first impressions are everything. It's like, yeah, but that's not fair.

[A]

It is not fair.

[B]

And the reason it's not fair is because haven't you grown in the last 10 years?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And let's just say I met you 10 years ago and I said, oh, let me tell you about Ed. Yes, you. But I can't hold you to that prison.

[A]

Or. You met me the day Lily passed.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you don't really know. So. And I talk about my book. I was working with a. An NBA team, and one of the leaders of the team, he was talking about a player on his team that he couldn't stand. And I was like, oh, man, I'm mad that I brought him up. And then I brought him up again three months ago. I said, hey, how are you and this player doing? He said, oh, they're my favorite player now. Crazy. And I said, what happened? He said, they've grown on me. And I said, man, I don't do that well. I need to leave margin for people to grow on me more. I put people in boxes way too fast and go, okay, that. That's the emotional one. And that that's just who they are. If someone shows you who they are, believe them. It's like, no. If someone shows you who they are, maybe give them a chance to show you something different and paint a new picture. And now you've got this open mind of saying, hey, let me. Let's talk about this. Hey, I love using this phrase. I've got a story in my head that I could use your help with. I've got a story in my head about you that I could use your help with. Personal relationships. I've got a story in my head that you don't love me anymore. Is that true? I've been ruminating, marinating this story in my head that I've not actually invited you in to be a part of that story. I'VE got a story in my head about you, that you don't want to work here anymore. Is that true? I've got a story in my head that in my mind, you're not giving your best. Is that. Is that true? And maybe they feel like they're giving 110% and they're overwhelmed and. But it looks like you're behind. But I've got this story in my head that I could use your help with. When you use that phrase, man, you just. You're walking with so much empathy, and you're allowing somebody else to fill in the story. I know people who tell stories to themselves about other people for decades without ever inviting that person in to say, is that true, brother? That's brilliant. I heard you said this about me, and so you know what? Oh, you're going to talk about me behind my back? Okay, great. I never even verify that it was even true. Rory could have said that I said something, and he's our mutual friend. Like, wait, no, that. That wasn't exactly how I said it. It. It. But we never even go back to verify. We immediately fill in the blank with the story, and we just move on and have people in these boxes. And so I think that idea of leaving margin in our world to say, maybe it's not the way that I have it in the story in my head, but I actually have to be vulnerable enough, confident enough to pick up the phone and say, hey, man, I. I got a story in my head that I love this. That you've actually not been a good friend to me, and that. That may not be true. And in that moment, they'll go, dude, you know how many phone calls I made for you, man? Did you know this other person was talking behind your back and I got you. I didn't know. But sometimes we'll just. We'll be halfway down the street with this story in our head. That's not even true.

[A]

I'm combining the two in my head. Of what you've suggested today was, hey, I may be wrong, but I've got this story in my head. Yeah, you know, that's outstanding.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Right there. That is outstanding. Okay, guys, I'm drinking a ton of water, which is good. I'm sure you do as well. You know what I'm learning about. It's depleting my electrolytes. And so electrolyte deficiency or imbalance can give you headaches, cramps. Big one for me. Fatigue. I couldn't figure out why I was so fatigued, flushing out all the electrolytes brain fog, weakness. You feel the difference when you get it right. Element is a zero sugar electrolyte drink mix and it's also an electrolyte drink. Element is formulated for anyone who wants to restore wellness through hydration and is perfectly suited for athletes. But also folks are fasting, folks on keto, low carb, whole food. Just someone who wants to get healthier. Many high performing business leaders or executive athletes have been on my show Drink Element. It's part of their hydration routine. Element has a great offer for my listeners. Just go to drink lmnt.com mylet to get a free Element sample pack with any order. That's drink lmnt.com mylet these statements and products have not been evaluated. The Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease or condition. It's hard to get all the stuff you need for your body in one place. So you're taking a million different pills or 16 different drinks. It's very difficult. And I gotta be honest with you guys, I found the easiest way to do it. Right now I'm all over im8. It's a daily all in one wellness drink that helps give my body the support it needs without juggling a bunch of different supplements. The drink is loaded with 92 nutrient rich ingredients. Vitamins, minerals, aptigens, CoQ10 MSM, pre probiotics. It's designed to help you get good from the inside out. Feel your best every day with IMA. Go to im8health.com ed and use code ed for a free welcome kit. Five free travel sachets plus 10 off your order. That's I am number 8H-E-A-L-T-.com ed code ed for a free welcome kit. Five free travel satchels, plus 10 off your order. Order imaidhealth.com ed code ed. These statements and products have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. What spurred this? Was there a particular person I gotta know that made you write this book or circumstance?

[B]

You know, I was getting ready to do a, a book tour for this, for this book. And the PR company, they didn't know the title of the book book. So the book's called how to work complicated People. But they didn't know that. They said, okay, we're gonna have you New York, right? Then we'll take it to la. Then you're gonna go to Tampa. You're Gonna do all this stuff.

[A]

New York Times bestseller, by the way.

[B]

Thank you. And. And then I sent him my. My speaking schedule. I said, I don't know when I'll even have time. I think I did 14 events in 16 days or something like that. I was like, when am I gonna go to New York? I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't have any space in my calendar to do that. And the guy writes, back, back, hey, Ryan, we're going to pass on working together. You're too complicated. And I said, I understand what you're saying, but I got a book for you, and if you just read it, you will learn how to work with me. I think overall, the impetus of the book was for me to go, man, I want to write a manifesto for the people that work with me to say, hey, man, this is what I wish people would have moved towards me, because I've often just felt misunderstood. And so I thought, man, if I can help people work with me, maybe I can help them work with some other.

[A]

Can I tell you something, brother?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what I thought when I read the book about myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think I'm the complicated one. Yeah, I'm just complicated. I'm. I mean, I'm as kind as they come and as intense as they come.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really, really bright sometimes and the biggest dumbass on the planet other times, you know what I'm saying? Like, I read the book and I, like, I'm pretty sure this book is for everyone who's ever been around me, including my own family, you know, and when I meet people that I grew up with, they're like, bro, I can't believe this is you. Or even that's a compliment, right? Or when people that work with you 10 or 15 years ago are like, wow, what a difference. You know? Like, I love that part. How do you know this is a toughie. And I. I know it's philosophy, but I'm curious as your opinion, because you become an expert through writing about something and living it. Sure. How do you know when this relationship, friendship, personal relationship, or business relationship, needs a little bit more grace and work? More just distance or termination.

[B]

Yeah. I think you've got to be able to rest your head on the pillow and say, I gave my very best to this relationship. I think most people stop short whenever they get annoyed or exhausted. But I think being able to say, hey, did I go to this person and say, hey, I really want this relationship to work out? Did I? Hey, I could be wrong. Hey, did I. There's a story in my head. Did I do everything in my power? Did I help them get counseling? Did I get immediate. Did I do everything in my part of the relationship because it takes two to tango. I think once you answer that question, that's the moment where you can make a change. I also think you want to be able to be aware of the signs of somebody who is also in the relationship trying to make it work. You and I are very growth mindset at individuals.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. So we can work on just about anything. We can negotiate just about anything. We're looking at a project. We're going, okay, well, we're going to bring whatever we can to the table to try and make this work. Well, not everybody has a growth mindset. Some people have a stuck mindset. Some people have a I am who I am. You do you. I do meet, do, do me, boo, boo. Like that. Some people just. That's just how they roll. And those are people that are going to be hard to, to do a relationship with in the long haul when they don't think that they even need. Right. There's a line that I write in the book that I think is very, very important, and it's stop expecting people to change who aren't trying to.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

Because if they're trying to change, they'll spend money to change.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

They'll call mentors to change. They'll listen to podcasts, they'll read books. They're. They're trying to change. They read a book like this and think, man, I got some things to work on. A lot of people just show up and they're just like, I'm good. You're lucky to have me.

[A]

You're right, though.

[B]

And you're like, are we, you know, you, you, you.

[A]

I think sometimes I've looked at people like they're. You said project earlier. I think sometimes I've looked at people like, this one's a project. I'm going to work on this one. And you stipulate in the book, like, people aren't problems to be solved. And that's an, that's an unhealthy perspective on humans. But you're right. What is the right perspective? And if people aren't problems to be solved.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Or projects to be worked on, and how should we be viewing the. These precious people?

[B]

I think they're humans. To be understood. That's the simple and best answer I can think of is, man, this is a human being that I have. I don't have a robot yet, but pretty close. Yeah, we're close, but they're human to be understood. And again, I want to do my best. I can't control them as much as I want to. And I think more and more in the American workforce, leaders are getting more and more frustrated because they think, oh, if I just pay them enough money, they'll just do what I want them to do. And then they pay them a bunch of money. And then yet they still don't do what they want them to do. And so it's like money is not the controlling factor that it used to be. I think older generations are just like, hey, you pay me a hundred grand, I'll run through a wall, I will do whatever you tell me to do. That's not the case.

[A]

Not true. People want to be, especially this next generation. They're much more cause oriented, aren't they? Contribution oriented. So do you have to communicate that to people that they're valued too? Like, is it are a lot of these things the symptom, not the disease, as you said, like, that this has gotten to the point because this person doesn't feel valued or that they're contributing or appreciated. And now the symptom is showing up of them acting out or this dissension or this complication. And some proactivity would be better than reactivity most of the time.

[B]

The hard part is people skills aren't really taught in schools.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so I deal with practitioners who are elite at what they do. They're a dentist, not a people person. I'm not a manager in office. They know how to do a root canal, right? Okay, yes. You talk about a professional athlete. It's like, I know how to dunk. You want me to have people skills and like, lead the team and motivate him and know how to do media and do. It's like, no, I'm a freakish athlete. I know how to play basketball. That does not mean I know how to do people. And so it doesn't matter what the industry is. People can get really good at their job and they can really suck at people. People in the people part of all, we're all in the people business is we do have to look at one another and go, hey, I value you. There ain't a class that's going to teach you that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so it can be front. You're like, but I'm here's the job description. And on my job description, it doesn't say you need to go value people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like, no, I've got to be this leader. I've got to have vision. It's just like, yeah, but if you're going to get them to actually do something about that vision, they have to fill the. Like, they belong.

[A]

I just did a podcast on encouraging people and I feel like sometimes these environments are just some. Periodically, the lack of encouragement, being proactive by the leader or even as the father or the mother. There's. There's a lack of, like, encouragement. And I think people begin to get burned out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

As a result. So what are your takes on encouragement? And also what do you deal with someone like a leader or a father who's like, I'm just burnt right now on this whole carrying the emotional burden of the company all the time and dealing with these complicated people. People ask me all the time about owning a business. What are some of the critical things people. People matter. Things don't. And I gotta be honest with you, every team that wins has great players. Right now you may have just realized your business needs to hire someone like yesterday. How can you find an amazing candidate really fast? Easy. You just need Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored Jobs posts help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page page for relevant candidates so you reach people that you want to reach faster. You only pay for results, so there's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show. Get a 75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more [e-mail] mylet just go to indeed.com mylet right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. What do you say to that person who's like, I'm just tired. I'm busy, I'm tired. I got family, I got work, I got this. We got inventory. We got to make our numbers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now you want me to deal with these complicated people. I'm already fried.

[B]

I think at some point they've got to be able to step back and go, what's all this for? Where's it all going? Because we are all the products of all of our habits and, and actions over the course of a period of time. And so you have to ask yourself, if you keep going the exact way that you're going, what results are you going to and are you going to be happy with that, and let's just say at the end of that, you're richer, but yet your relationships have suffered. Are you sure you want to keep rowing in that direction, is what I would ask. Because we're all going somewhere. We are all going somewhere, and some of us are going there way too fast. So I think being able to step back and go, okay, what do I actually want to produce here? I know I've got numbers. I know I've got metrics. I know I've got all my KPIs, and that's great. But as far as my relationships, am I going to wake up 10 years from now? And yet my kids don't even want to talk to. To me, that's not good. So in light of that, I need to be intentional. The words intentionality, intentionality, intentionality, intentionality. And the more intentional we become, the more value we create. And so I encourage people all the time. I do this with audiences every other day. I say, raise your hand. In the audience, thousand people, raise your hand if you have ever had a colleague send you a video on your birthday. Birthday. Saying, happy Birthday. Raise your hand. On average, it's less than 4%. I said, yeah. So I said, so this. I'm just gonna make you an intentional leader. I'm making an intentional colleague right now. When it's somebody's birthday, just instead of just sending a text, because everybody gets a text text, you send out a video. Hey, so glad you're born. So glad we work together. Hey, happy birthday. Have a great day. In that moment, they go, there's a 96 chance that they'll say, I've never worked with anybody, anybody that sent me a video on my birthday. Then I say, hey, I'll raise your hand if you've ever had your half birthday celebrated half birthday, 3% of the room, same thing. How many of you have ever had some colleagues celebrate your wedding anniversary? 2%, 1%. You imagine how long you been married?

[A]

29 years.

[B]

Okay, imagine. Imagine somebody that works for you goes, hey, on your anniversary. Yeah, for 30 years ago. Hey, I realize it's pretty hard to be married three decades and lead me at the same time. Hey, congrats on 30 years. It'd be the most meaningful video you've gotten from a co worker, like, ever. Does that make sense? It's like, immediately. And then in the audience, I'll say, hey, raise your hand if you've been married over 30 years, 35 years, 40 years. And then whoever it is, we all go nuts for that person. I go, do you know how hard it is to work here? And everybody laughs. It's, it's like, but what do we do? We just, we created moments of intentionality. If you can do that, people will feel like, man, I, I, you see me, I'm valued. Bonus points if you can remember kids names. I mean now, now we're going above and beyond. I'll tell you this. My pastor, last week, my son turned 6 years old. We did a video. See, he goes, hey, I'm not trying to talk to the parents right now. I want to talk to Roman. Hey, Roman. Roman, you're awesome. Yeah. Hey man. I just want to say happy birthday from your pastor. Yeah, it's like when you, when people think about Christians or pastors, they don't tell that story, brother.

[A]

I love that about the pastor. So you have a Roman, I have a maximus. We both went with kind of common theme there.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I, A few weeks ago, it was a friend's birthday and I don't usually do this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I made him a video and it wasn't even a quick one. It was like, why I love him and why I'm so proud.

[B]

Proud of him.

[A]

Very prominent man, very well known man, very successful. And I'm sure he had 26 billion text messages on his birthday. And I saw him and he was walking down a hallway towards me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

First off, before I saw him, his assistant said to me, I won't say his name, but he was very moved by your video. He's, he's mentioned it to me two or three times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she knew about it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And then as he turned the corner of the hallway, saw me broke down.

[B]

Down. Y.

[A]

Broke down. And by the time he got to me, he just hugged me and couldn't speak.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just sent him a video message for his birthday.

[B]

Means the world.

[A]

But it, it may not have happened ever or in, in 30 years, it hasn't happened. You're so right. Then I want to tell you a story about a guy and then I want your thought on boundaries is where we're going to go last. But growing up, remember when you'd have to call someone's house to talk to them? So when I was growing up, my dad had all these different bosses and people that he worked with. But there was this one man, man named Jerry Farley. And when Jerry Farley would call the house, he would, you know, my dad would pick up and I could hear them talking and it was a couple minutes about business and then I'd hear my dad go, oh, no. He got two hits in the game. And this. And Michelle got a goal in soccer. Jerry Farley started to ask about the kids by name.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then he would take it a step further. Then he would have my dad put me on the phone.

[B]

Phone.

[A]

He would do this almost every time he called our home.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I'd say, hey, Mr. Farley. He says, it's Jerry. Eddie. He goes. Can I just tell you what your dad's been telling me about you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He talks about you all the time. You have no idea how proud your dad is of you. You're the apple of his eye, man. He just. He thinks the world of you. And then every once in a while, he'd write me a letter.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Just a handwritten note. I'm 12, 14, 15 years old.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Your dad walked in today and told me the story of. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What a great story. I'm so proud of you.

[B]

You.

[A]

But this guy. Here we are. My father's passed away. I believe Jerry's now passed away a year or two ago. Of all the men my father ever worked with, I can tell you the name of one.

[B]

Jerry.

[A]

Jerry Farley. And I'm 54 years old. He made me feel special.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

No matter what went on in that work environment that was toxic or if they didn't get along. I promise you my dad reverted back to. That was this man's intention and who he was. And my dad worked with him until he retired. Never took a job anywhere else. Right. So to your point?

[B]

Point.

[A]

My dad revered him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I revere him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know whether he was good at his job or not. I have no idea. I never asked my dad that question is even any good at his job.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But I know he was a good man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I know he cared about our family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that runs deep. My dad never took more money to go somewhere else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A better opportunity. Closer to work. Didn't have to commute. None of that ever entered my dad's mind. My dad worked Saturdays till late at night for Jerry Farley, so. You make a great point. Great point. I wanted to add that last thing I want to ask you about. I've done a terrible job of this in my life. Which is setting boundaries for the people around me.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Boundaries in the workplace. I'm talking about asks of me favors. What's appropriate, what's not, what's in my calendar. I am maybe one of the all time worst boundary setters. It's. It's just, it's just been an invisible spot for me. And then I'm constantly paying the price for the lack of boundaries, which increases intensity and friction and all this other stuff. Had I just been good at the boundary things thing, probably would have eliminated about 70% of this stuff. So what's your advice on boundaries, setting them, how to do it, etc.

[B]

Well, I mean you, you said it in your question. You're. You're gonna pay for it one way or another. So you can pay the price of the awkward conversations at the beginning or you could pay the price of stressed out, strenuous relationships all around you because, you know, you couldn't say no.

[A]

How do you have the awkward conversation though? How do you master that for me?

[B]

Me? I, again, I look at the direction of my life. Where's all this going? And I start with my kids. I got 10 and six. Okay. I got 10 and six. So they're, they're looking. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so I, I've just, I've just decided a long time ago that part of my definition of success is that my kids still want to go on business trips with me 20 years from now. Now. And so even when I do a corporate keynote, I show a picture of me and my son at, on a business trip and I say the goal is that 20 years from now we're still taking pictures on business trips. And he wants to, not because he has to. Like me and my son, we're going to Vegas in Phoenix Thursday and Friday. Can't wait. That's awesome. And he's stoked. The goal is like, man, are you going to crush it in, in Scottsdale and Vegas? Of course. But the real goal is that he has the time of his life life and that he still wants to do it 20 years from now. For that to happen, that means I have to set boundaries with a lot of people. And so I have to consistently say no. And in, in my write up, hey, I'll even tell clients, man, I would love to come and, and do the dance the night before. I can't got my son. I've, I've got my family. And just so you know, here's what I'm gonna teach. Teach. I'm going to teach that you, every single person should have their own personal definition of success and that they should stand by. I'm going to tell you what mine is. Hey, would you help me be a great dad and a great speaker that actually lives what he's talking about? So now we, we, we're talking about a boundary that says, hey, if your events at four, I'm not coming in the day before at two, unless it's in Hawaii, unless we're going somewhere.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

But we're going to, you know, Kansas City. It's just like, no, I live in Dallas. I'll get there. I've got. We can get a private plane. Whatever we need to do to make sure we've never missed an event. I know it's going to make you anxious. I know you're going to give some pushback, but unfortunately, if I can't, then I can't come.

[A]

I love you.

[B]

And so I have to say no to a lot of things that other people would say, no. This is successful. You mean you're not going to do this person's event? And it's like, I can't do that event and coach my son's basketball because.

[A]

You know, where you want this to be in 20 years, you keep that front and center. That's your true north.

[B]

And I let people know that. And when they hear that, they want you more. And now, now they're going, I probably should have done that.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[B]

That's. Most CEOs are going, I'm nervous that you're coming in the same day, but I wish I would have sent this email. I wish I would have made this phone call. And so sometimes that is the difference. Different is. Is going, hey, don't. Agent. Don't send this in an email. Give me their phone number. I'm gonna call them. Hey, here's a situation. My son's gonna basketball game. And what it cost to be me, it actually cost him a lot for me to be who I am. So when this book hit the New York Times bestsellers list, my son freaked out and it was like all his hard work paid off.

[A]

That's so good. You're trying to make me fall in love with you, Ryan Lee, by the way, just so each child gets a shout out to the. To the audience. We got Roman and we got Jackson. All right. We got Jackson as well. You're exceptional.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You're exceptional. Appreciate it. And after you were booked, everybody that we knew mutually told me what a powerhouse you were and how brilliant you were. But what I've sensed with you is obviously your IQ is very, very high, but I sense your heart and your spirit.

[B]

Spirit. Thank you.

[A]

God shines through you, bro.

[B]

I appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah. You're special.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You are. This book is special. To everybody. What? Can I just tell you something?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is why I do the podcast right here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like a perfect conversation back and forth. No wasted minutes. Everything you said helped people. This is why I started this show right here.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so you make me feel good about doing this today.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

How to work with Complicated People with the Ryan leak. New York Times bestseller already. Let's keep it on the list. You guys go get it. Follow Ryan on social as well. He's exceptional. You heard it today, Ryan. Thank you. God bless you, everybody. Max out. By the way, get on my email list edmilet.com so you get the episodes early and also so that we're communicating more often. Maybe I'll figure out something to send you someday as well. God bless you. Max out. This is the Ed Milan show.