John Morgan: Life is Luck

Summary

THE ED MYLETT SHOW

Episode: John Morgan: Life is Luck

Date: August 11, 2026
Guest: John Morgan (Morgan & Morgan, author of "Life is Luck")

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Ed Mylett sits down with John Morgan, founder of Morgan & Morgan, one of the largest personal injury law firms in America. Together, they unpack the nuances of luck, entrepreneurship, risk, and the real paths to business success—all through the lens of Morgan’s new book, "Life is Luck." Morgan shares his philosophies on the three types of luck, the unglamorous truth of entrepreneurship, and how to balance risk, talent, and relentless hunger to win. Along the way, listeners are treated to memorable stories, candid lessons, and Morgan’s unique takes on AI, branding, and even his quirky crime memorabilia collection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Three Types of Luck

[02:29–05:59]

• Pure Luck: Events outside one's control (e.g., being struck by lightning).

  "Pure bad luck is being struck by lightning. That's pure luck." — John Morgan (02:29)

• Planned Luck: Luck found through curiosity and intentional exploration (cites Ben Franklin’s kite experiment).
• Practice Luck: Preparation and repeated drills enable 'lucky' outcomes—illustrated through sports examples like Grant Hill’s legendary pass:

  "We practice that play every day in practice... That practice luck turned into the greatest luck ever in college basketball." — John Morgan (03:44)

• Life is "a bunch of casinos." The key is to recognize there are rules, discern where to “play,” and understand the odds.

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2. Risk, Preparation, and the Entrepreneurial Mindset

[06:00–13:34]

• Risk Tolerance: True entrepreneurship means embracing risk, not playing “safe.”
• Moonshots vs. Bullets: Big goals sometimes mean exploding or “dying” if you fail. Test iteratively before scaling.
• Location & Capital: Fundamentals like location and capitalization are still make-or-break factors for any venture.

  "The greatest concept in the world won't fix a bad location... Parking, parking, parking." — John Morgan (09:19)

• Who Should Be an Entrepreneur?
  • Not everyone is suited—the “entrepreneurial seed” is often innate.
  • Endorses using tests (like Myers-Briggs) when hiring:

    "The hardest thing about a business is people. If you're running a business and not testing before you hire, you're making a big mistake." — John Morgan (14:41)

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3. Self-Awareness and Playing to Your Strengths

[15:51–21:27]

• The greatest success comes from aligning your business with your unique talents.

  "I did figure out... I happen to pick businesses that took advantage of my proclivities..." — Ed Mylett (16:51)

• John Morgan: a self-described “connector” who succeeds by leveraging his strengths and bringing in people to do what he cannot.

  "I'm smart enough to know what I'm not smart about, and I'm smart enough to go find the people who are smart at what I'm not smart at." — John Morgan (19:55)

• Example: Rockefeller’s success lay in hiring scientists, not being one.

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4. The Reality of Hunger and Sustained Drive

[27:40–32:42]

• Hunger is a non-negotiable trait for entrepreneurs.

  "The very first book I wrote was called you can't teach hungry... It's just something in us." — John Morgan (27:40)

• What keeps him going isn’t money; it’s the love of competition, the satisfaction of building, and the challenge of new ventures.
• Turning failures into assets:

  "Most people never use failure for the next thing, but I took that failure... reworked it in a better location, in a better city." — John Morgan (31:41)

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5. Branding: Who Knows You Matters

[32:42–37:13]

• In the modern marketplace, it’s more important who knows you, not just who you know.
  • John systematically reinvested early profits to build the Morgan & Morgan brand before spending on personal luxuries.

  "The best way you scale is when you're young, take your profits and feed the businesses..." — John Morgan (35:41)

• Today, marketing and brand awareness are paramount—a fact Morgan embraced early for massive success.

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6. Investing Back & The 40% Rule

[39:56–40:51]

• Reinvesting profits into your own business is not just a growth multiplier—it's tax smart:

  "Every dollar you put in, you get to almost immediately write off 40%... The best stock market I've ever invested in, you're looking at it." — John Morgan (40:05)

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7. The Climb, The Reward, and Reflections on the Journey

[42:10–46:06]

• The journey and the climb are the real rewards, not the mountain top.

  "The journey is the reward. For me, the climb has been way more fun than getting to the mountain." — John Morgan (43:39)

• Youth enables risk, but perspective grows with age. Most great art and business risk come in one’s twenties and thirties.
• Concludes: Don’t let failure freeze you. Use it. And don’t rush to retirement—there’s always “one more big event.”

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8. AI, Trends, Crypto, and When to Act

[21:27–26:10]

• On Artificial Intelligence:
  • AI is not "overcooked"—it is transforming business right now.
  • Morgan is already using AI in significant ways (e.g., law firm call centers), but warns about “gold rush” mentality:

    "We're at the stagecoach and the train moment right now. The train is leaving the station... Whenever you have a gold rush, you are going to have more fool's gold than real gold." — John Morgan (22:35)

  • To decipher what's truly valuable, surround yourself with experts ("I just recently hired a very, very, very expensive guy from Amazon... I need a gemologist." — John Morgan, [24:01])
  • On crypto: skeptical, admits he doesn’t understand it fully, and cautions listeners against getting caught up in hype.

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9. Life’s Unique Rewards and Passions

[48:38–50:11]

• Morgan’s love of history and collecting extends to owning crime memorabilia (OJ's Bronco, Ted Bundy’s VW, etc.).
• Final message: Continue to learn, embrace new challenges, and stay curious at any age.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Luck:

  "I talk about luck... looking for luck, finding luck, enhancing luck, improving luck. And it's the same as a casino... It's the casino you choose." — John Morgan (05:59)

• On Risk:

  "There's two different ways to look at a moonshot: when you fail, the rocket blows up and you die... If you're gonna die, have a plan B..." — John Morgan (07:25)

• On People:

  "The hardest thing about a business is people." — John Morgan (14:41)

• On Self-Awareness:

  "The most dangerous person in the world is the person who thinks he's something he's not..." — John Morgan (19:54)

• On Hunger:

  "You can't teach hungry... It's just something in us." — John Morgan (27:40)

• On Investing:

  "The best stock market I've ever invested in, you're looking at it." — John Morgan (40:05)

• On Failure:

  "Your failures [must] turn out to be assets going forward. Because if failure just freezes you and puts you on the sideline, you fail for no reason." — John Morgan (32:42)

• On the Journey:

  "The climb is the joy. When you get to the top of Camp Mount Kilimanjaro, now you got to go down. That looks harder... Or what I choose to do is keep climbing new mountains..." — John Morgan (43:42)

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Highlight Timestamps

• Defining Luck & The Casino Analogy: 02:29–05:59
• Risk, Moonshots & Testing: 07:25–09:53
• Entrepreneurial “Test” & Role of People: 11:35–15:43
• Self-Awareness & Team Building: 19:21–21:27
• Artificial Intelligence & Gold Rushes: 22:35–26:10
• Hunger and Staying Driven: 27:40–32:42
• Branding and Scaling Morgan & Morgan: 33:36–37:13
• Investment, Deductions, & Growth: 39:56–40:51
• Reflections on the Struggle: 42:10–46:06
• Crime Memorabilia & Personal Quirks: 48:38–50:11

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In Closing

John Morgan’s perspective is equal parts humor, hard-edged realism, and actionable wisdom. “Life is Luck” isn’t just about chance—it’s about preparation, risk, hunger, learning from failure, and unapologetically playing to your strengths. This episode is packed with “master class” lessons on business, personal growth, and relentless pursuit—delivered with both candor and charisma.

Essential Takeaway: Success comes from understanding which kind of luck to pursue, being honest about your strengths, and investing in yourself and your craft. And above all: stay hungry and keep climbing.

John Morgan’s book, “Life is Luck,” is available now—highly recommended for everyone serious about life, business, and beating the odds.

Transcript

[Ed Mylett]

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[Ed Mylett]

This is the Ed Milan Show. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So I wanted to have this man on the show for a while. I mean, I've watched him on TV for, you know, forever. And he is. Not only is he an attorney, but he's built one of the great brands in the United States, really, in the, in the world. And I, I wanted to pick his brain, obviously, about the brand that he's built, but also the success he's had in his life. He's become an incredibly wealthy man. He's also helped other people get very wealthy as well. But he's somebody, right? When I tell you the name of his company, the name of his firm, you're gonna know it immediately. And I can't wait to pick his brain. He's written a bunch of books, but the one we're gonna talk about today is called Life is Luck. From Morgan and Morgan. Mr. John Morgan, welcome to the Ed Mylett Show.

[John Morgan]

Good to be here.

[Ed Mylett]

It's great to have you. You look at all relaxed there in Florida, and I'm over here working in Cleveland, so hopefully we'll make some magic today. So I got to be honest with you, I was going to have you on because I've always been a fan of your work. And then I heard the title of the book about luck, and I'm like, I don't want to bring a guy on that wants to talk about luck because that's going to discourage people, right? And then I, then I read the book and I went, okay, all right, that makes sense to me. So let's define a few of your philosophies. First in the book, which is brilliant, by the way. You guys, go get it. You talk about there being really three types of luck. And so I wish you would illustrate that for the audience and then give some depth to it, because it's really awesome.

[John Morgan]

Well, the three types of luck are pure luck, plan luck, and practice luck. Pure luck. And by the way, luck can be bad luck and good luck. Sometimes people think luck is always good luck. No, luck can almost be bad luck. Pure bad luck is being struck by lightning. That's pure luck.

[Ed Mylett]

Right.

[John Morgan]

Pure planned luck is Ben Franklin looking up in the clouds and seeing all this movement and taking a kite and a key and stretching it out to the clouds and go, that's land luck.

[Ed Mylett]

Right?

[John Morgan]

And practice luck is. We watch, people. Football teams are down with 60 seconds left in the game on their own five yard line and 95 yards to go. And they go down the field, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And score. You go, that was lucky. No, it wasn't. Because the last things these pro teams and college teams do is they run two minute drills in practice over and over and over again. I write my book about Grant Hill's luck.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[John Morgan]

He threw the pass to Kentucky. I told him one time, we were flying back. I said, that was the luckiest thing. He said, no, it wasn't luck, John. He goes, we practice that play every day in practice. And we tried it with Wake Forest, but I threw it down the side. Didn't work. So we said, we're going to do it at the top of the key. And when the time came for Grant Hill to make that pass to Christian Laettner, they had practiced that play, which is the most iconic play in the history of college basketball. They practice it every day. At the end of practice, when it came time to go, Coach K calls him over to the sidelines. He says, grant, can you make the pass? He says, I can make the pass. Christian, can you make the shot? I can make the shot. Let's go win this game. And that practice luck turned into the greatest luck ever in college basketball. Broke my heart.

[Ed Mylett]

Because I'm from Kentucky, I was watching that game live. I remember thinking, I did not know the backstory. I thought that was just pure luck.

[John Morgan]

Right? Yeah. And we look. And that's why the book is misleading, because it is. People think luck is, hey, I'm rolling dice. Well, I also talk in the book about casinos. Life is a bunch of casinos. There's this casino and that casino, and we have all these casinos we can go in to find our luck, to find our success. And when you get in those casinos, there's all sorts of games you can play to be lucky or unlucky. Now, you go into the casino, there's rules in the casinos. The dealer deals you two aces. What do you do? You know, split them. Okay. You're a degenerate game, right? You split them because that's the rule. You. You get hit. You. You're sitting on 16, but they're showing 10. What do you do? You hit, they're showing five. What do you. They're showing. They're showing five. What do you do? You stick all those rules. Now there's slot machines that are loose. Slot machines?

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[John Morgan]

Where are they loose? In the bull casinos off the Strip or in some little honky tonk in Reno? The better machines that the better casinos have are not loose. So if you go down off the Strip, you have a better chance of winning. That's what life is all about. So when I talk about luck, I'm talking about looking for luck, finding luck, enhancing luck, improving luck. And it's the same as a casino is the casino you choose. By the way, if you go in a casino and play keno, you're going to lose your rear.

[Ed Mylett]

It's so funny. Who's the degenerate gambler now? But your point is really well taken in the sense that I want to pick that apart a little bit from a business perspective, too. So one thing I find with this, like, Instagram entrepreneur era is I think people think winning in business is a whole lot easier than it is in the real world. That's number one. And one thing that you have to do if you're going to be a degenerate gambler or a gambler in general is have some risk tolerance. So I see a lot of people that say, I want to be wealthy, I want to be successful, but they want to keep the. They want to keep their foot on first base before they go to second. They're afraid to get caught stealing, theoretically. And so talk about risk, how that's applied in your life, and also the fact that preparation minimizes that risk, but you still have to take some. What about those two things hand in hand?

[John Morgan]

Well, the famous quote from. I heard it first from Darrell Royal when he was coaching Texas. You know, luck is when hard work and preparation collide. We've all heard variations of that. But what I would say about risk is there are risks. There are some risks. There are small risk, and then there are some risk that I talk about in the book called Moonshots. These are. These are bhag. Big, hairy, audacious goals. And so there's two different ways to look at a moonshot is when you fail on a moonshot, the rocket blows up and you die. And you have to be aware that you might die. And if you're gonna die, have a plan B that you're not gonna be totally dead. So one of my moonshots years ago is I built this attraction called Wonderworks. I had, you know, and the house is turned upside down. It's like a side center. I built it 30 years ago. I raised Pete money, OPM. Other people's money. If you don't have money, that's how you get money. And it turned out now, if I'd failed, I don't know what I would have done. That was a moonshot, but it made it. And here we are 30 years later. I got six of them, and we have no debt. 33 million in EBITDA. Wow, that moonshot worked. But that was a very risky for most businesses. I talk about bullets before bombs. Okay, kind of got to go in small. Test it, test it, test it, test it. And then expand it. Expand it expanded. But just like the casino, there are rules in life. Location, location, location.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Mm.

[John Morgan]

The greatest concept in the world won't fix a bad location.

[Ed Mylett]

True, true.

[John Morgan]

If you. One of the mistakes I made in one of my businesses, I built a little amusement park, but I didn't have enough parking. So I. I've revised that to location, location, location. Parking, parking, parking. If you don't have parking, people can't come. And then the other big mistake people make is under capitalized. They start thinking, we're going to come in, this is going to be popular, we're going to make money, and we're going to. We're going to pay for some of this out of our cash flow.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah, that's right.

[John Morgan]

Look, in America, 25% of businesses, small business, go out of business year one, 43% by year five, 65% by year 10. And that doesn't count that they might have been better off working for somebody and just making a salary when it's all set. My daughter had a boutique and she liked it. And she was lucky that she had me as a father because she would have been better gone and take the job with Ann Taylor and move to Atlanta. She'd have made more money than we made at the Violent Clover. But it Was a win for me because I kept her in town relate. I got to see her. I didn't want her to go to Atlanta, but there was 10. I mean, she worked her butt off. Yeah, retails hard.

[Ed Mylett]

How do you know? Like someone's listening to this. I think that's a great point. And I. I've been asked this question for 20 years and I don't know that I even believe my own answer half the time. How do you. And I wonder if you have a really strong opinion about this. How does someone know if they have the juice for that? Like the. To be an entrepreneur? I mean, there's really what's never celebrated as being a great number one or a number two at a very successful company. You get most of the upside with almost none of the stress or the risk that comes with it. But I mean, and by the way, we should celebrate people, the number one, two or three at another company more often than we do. It's all of us, the theoretical, you know, the rock star entrepreneur that had this big cash out. But these people behind the scenes that help you and I built what we've built, we wouldn't have it without them. But how does someone. Do you have a test? How do you know which one you should be? Who should be an entrepreneur and who shouldn't be?

[John Morgan]

Yes, I do have a test for that. And listen, you're right about that. Because when I look at my organizations, if I miss two or three different people, I don't have the success I have. Likewise, you know, sometimes I watch these football quarterbacks giving all the thanks to their offensive line without my offensive line. I used to think that's just bs but let me tell you something, it's true. It's true.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep.

[John Morgan]

If you don't, that's why they take. That's why they buy them all Rolexes and that's why take them out to dinner before every game.

[Ed Mylett]

Look at Brady's 10 Super Bowls. The seven where they could block, he won. And the three where they couldn't, he lost.

[John Morgan]

Look at my homes, all of it. And that offensive line. If you don't got that offensive line, you're going to be sacked in your business.

[Ed Mylett]

In your business, you mean.

[John Morgan]

In your business, you've got to have that support. Now why do I call the book Life is Luck, Lessons from a Paper Boy? Because here's what I believe. I believe that some of us, and this is a lucky part, we're born just like Shaq was born seven foot one. Some of us were born with an entrepreneurial seed. I had a paper out. I don't know what you had at 11 or 10. I would bet I did if it wasn't mowing grass. I don't know how old you are. You look young. If it wasn't a newspaper out, there was something you were doing.

[Ed Mylett]

I'll meet you in the middle. I had a baseball card business and auto detailing business, and I sold sodas at the golf course. I'm right with you. I had that gene early.

[John Morgan]

I'm not surprised.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep.

[John Morgan]

And Warren Buffett calls it the ovarian lottery. Some of us get this thing.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[John Morgan]

And most kids aren't working. You know, if you remember your friends, they weren't working.

[Ed Mylett]

So true.

[John Morgan]

And so for all us paper boys, I worked at a golf course, too. I went out and did range balls and worked at the pro shop and got tips. And you kind of learn a lot in a golf shop, too.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

They do.

[John Morgan]

So you're born with that. Now, what I would say to people. There are tests. Briggs Meyer is an unbelievable test.

[Ed Mylett]

Sure is.

[John Morgan]

A lot of people don't test people. One time, I brought in all my people, and we gave them all the tests. And then the person who was facilitating told everybody, you go to table one, table two, table three, table four. And when I looked at all the four different tables there, the one table was the high A personalities organized. The other table was the high A personalities disorganized. And then there was this one table with these sad sacks, the lowest producers, the Eeyores of the Disney parade just over there, head down. And it was so, like. So I said, you know what? I got to start using these brick. So if you're running a business and not testing before you hire, you're making a big mistake, because it's right there. The hardest thing about a business is people.

[Ed Mylett]

It's a fact.

[John Morgan]

It's the hardest thing about any business, whether it's my attraction business or my hotels or my law firms, it's always the people. And so, look, you need a test. It doesn't cost hardly anything. And all of a sudden, you know it. I had a. At a real estate company that we owned, and we would test the people coming in. It was like, this person is going to be a superstar. This person can be developed into a superstar. This person shouldn't be hired. And this person don't even. Just get them out.

[Ed Mylett]

Get them out.

[John Morgan]

Yeah, get them out and save yourself the time. So if you're going to play this casino game, give a test. Briggs Myers is free yeah, and there's other tests that are even better than Briggs Myers that shows if the applicant is lying about their answers.

[Ed Mylett]

You're right. By the way, guys, when you Google it, it's probably going to be Myers Briggs.

[John Morgan]

Yeah, Myers Briggs.

[Ed Mylett]

But they're interchangeable.

[John Morgan]

I wrote in the book about dyslexia, so.

[Ed Mylett]

No, but they're both. They find it. I just want to make sure when

[John Morgan]

they Google it, I'm dyslexic, so that's why I said it.

[Ed Mylett]

Well, I'm convinced you're super wealthy in spite of that, so that's. By the way, you've written enough books. You can't be that dyslexic. But I want to ask you. You know, I. This luck thing I. I just had. Some young men were visiting my place, and my son was one of them. They were talking about, you know, the blessings that I've had. I call them blessings. But I said, here's my biggest luck or blessing was that I sort of stumbled. I didn't do it intentionally, but this is a formula. I'd like you to talk about it. I did figure out what the. I don't have a lot of talents, and that's not false humility. I do have a couple, though, and one of them is my ability to communicate and persuade and transfer energy verbally or in person. I think that's a skill of mine. I'm intense and I'm a competitor. I happen to pick businesses that took advantage of my proclivities, and I don't think enough people. I think they get into what they like, but maybe not what they would be naturally good at. I don't think business has to be that difficult if you actually choose something that's in your lane or your sphere of genius. And to your point about testing, maybe it's just some self awareness. What are you good at? Is it organization? Is it structure? Is it problem solving? Is it, you know, steamrolling through a problem? But for me, one of the great blessings of my life is very young. I found business is but one in particular that took advantage of a couple talents that I had that could develop into skills. Started with a talent, became a skill. Is that true for you as well? And what would your advice be about that? August is the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. And I'm getting compliments. You guys listen to the show. You're like, hey, where'd you get the shirt? Mylette looks good on you. I got it. At Quint's, their clothes are made with premium materials, built to last and designed to become the ones you reach for every day. Quint specializes in everyday staples that work harder. Like they're ultra soft organic cotton tees which I'm wearing right now, and premium Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Which is why I go there. No markups, no middlemen, right to the dealer. And it's not just the clothing. Quince has my go to for everything from hotel quality bedding, bath essentials, premium cookware, travel must haves. So upgrade your everyday. Download the Quints app for exclusive offers or go to quints.com/ed. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK. That's Q U I N C-E.com ED this episode is sponsored by RO. A lot of people assume GLP1s cost a fortune. And that assumption keeps them from even looking into the treatment. But the reality is there may be more affordable options than people realize. Ro helps people find the lowest cost path. FDA approved GLP1 treatments, whether that's through insurance coverage or cash pay options that are more accessible than you'd expect. Getting started on a GLP one can feel unnecessarily complicated. You got insurance questions, pricing uncertainty, no clear starting point. Roche simplifies all of it by helping patients understand their options up front. And the lowest cost way to access FDA approved GLP1 treatment, whether covered or pay in cash. Ro wants to help people lose weight. That's why they have the lowest cost options out there. I use this. And you should too. You can join over 1.5 million other people who trusted Ro. Here's how you do it. Go to Ro Co Mylet to see if you qualify. That's Ro Comylet. To get started on Ro, go to Ro Forward slash safely for box warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications.

[John Morgan]

It's very true. And look, my talent has been. I'm a connector. I like people. Being with people is it charges me up. Some people don't like to or not are introverts.

[Ed Mylett]

That's me.

[John Morgan]

Okay. Are you an introvert?

[Ed Mylett]

Very much so. Yeah.

[John Morgan]

I would never have said that. I never would have thought that.

[Ed Mylett]

I know.

[John Morgan]

So. So you're an excited introvert. So I am. Here's the thing I'd say about that. You first of all, you got to know who you are.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[John Morgan]

You got to know you got to be in. The most dangerous person in the world is the person who thinks he's something he's not or thinks something not. So what I say to that point is this. You got to know who you are. I know this for a fact. I'm not that smart with test. I'm not that smart in math or science. I just. I just know it. But here's the thing. I am. I am smart enough to know what I'm not smart about, and I'm smart enough to go find the people who are smart at what I'm not smart at. And so I read a book once on Rockefeller, and it was called Titan and books as big as the damn Bible. And I only underlined one thing. They said, Mr. Rockefeller, you're not a geologist. You're not a scientist. You don't have an mba. You don't have this. You know, you're a bookkeeper. How did you build this incredible oil company by not being a scientist. Here's the only thing I underlined. Rockefeller said, I hire scientists.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep. Very good.

[John Morgan]

Yeah. Okay, so look, by the way, Steve Jobs did not create Microsoft. Wozinski did, or whatever that guy's name.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

He.

[John Morgan]

He.

[Ed Mylett]

It's Apple. And it's Was. You're exactly right. You're exactly right.

[John Morgan]

Yeah. Woz was the guy doing it.

[Ed Mylett]

That's correct.

[John Morgan]

And Jobs saw how smart was.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right. That's right.

[John Morgan]

He's. And he just harnessed was. There's such a.

[Ed Mylett]

You make such. That's. To me, I think you just called out the most perfect example of what you're describing, even in the book you had Was. And his genius, which was he could build those boards. It was a board company originally. And then you had Jobs, which was his marketing ability, his intensity, his passion, his energy and perfectionism. Perfectionism. Relentless work ethic. You're exactly like 10 million percent agree with you on that. Speaking of intelligence, I didn't know I was going to ask you this, but it made me think about it. I've asked it on about every fifth episode. Now, if I have an entrepreneur on which we're talking about intelligence here, knowing your own intelligence, we would have a really silly episode if I let you leave here. And I didn't ask you about artificial intelligence, because it's. Obviously, I just was watching a clip right before I came in here of Elon Musk. Elon. Right. And I'm wondering how that's impacting your businesses and any counsel or advice you'd give to people about this wave we're currently in and where it's coming, do you think it's overcooked, over exaggerated, it's bigger deal, how it's going to impact businesses and yours?

[John Morgan]

Well, it's not overcooked and it's not over hyped because it's here. And look, all I know is I'm probably on Claude 20 times a day myself. Wow. Okay. My. Just, just myself. And so once I gave a speech called the Stagecoach and the Train. And the, the. The essence of the speech was the stagecoach company heard about the train, but they never paid attention to the train. They heard it moved a few inches and then it. But they were like, how's that train going to go over water? How's that train gonna go around mountains? How that train gonna go through mountains? Look, we're at the stagecoach in the train moment right now. The train is leaving the station. AI now, the problem with AI is the same problem you had back in the 1860s with the gold rush. The same problem you had with everybody wanted to get into marijuana. Because that's the next great thing. Whenever you have a gold rush, you are going to have more fool's gold than real gold. You're going to have more zirconian than diamonds. And for me, I'm not a gemologist. You spread all these things on and say, John, which one's the diamond and which one's the zirconian? I don't know. But I'll tell you what I did. I just recently hired a very, very, very expensive guy from Amazon that was in their AI and why did I do that? Because I need a gemologist. I'm not a gemologist. I need somebody to tell me what are diamonds and what is zirconians, what fool's gold and what's real gold. So what I would say to everybody is this, look, it's happening. I mean, I'm already using AI in my call centers. We get 3 million, 4 million calls a year. And so we're trying AI out right there, right now. But it is going to happen in a very big way. I can't tell you all the different ways I could use it in my law firm, but I'm already using it. But the big thing to be careful about is don't run out just cause it's a fad, just cause everybody's in A.I. it's like, listen, I don't know if I offend anybody when I say this, because I. It's like crypto to me. I don't know, and if I, if I don't know, I don't buy. And when Lamar Odom is selling crypto, I'm also not interested in that. Seems like everybody's selling. Crypto's got gold chains and Russians in the front seat of a Ferrari. So I kind of, I kind of always watch who's selling what. And to me, the guys that are making money in crypto or the tolls, getting it coming and going. Not. But I don't understand it. And I tell you, I'm tempted to go there. And you know what? You know, when you lose money, when you're greedy. When you're greedy, and my greed is. Pushes me towards crypto, but I got to keep saying to myself, john, you don't even know what it is.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[John Morgan]

So if I can't explain it to myself. And listen, I've been into Claude many nights trying to understand crypto. You know, I need, you know, I need to. Somebody needs to write a book. They used to have all these Book for Dummies. Somebody needs to write a book called Crypto for Dummies.

[Ed Mylett]

It's true.

[John Morgan]

So I can understand it.

[Ed Mylett]

Well, when you figure it out, send me an email or call me because I'm in the same boat. And by the way, same exact thing. I've dabbled, but I really don't know. And I certainly don't want to miss out on that gold rush. But I also don't know that it's not fool's gold. And I just literally don't know. I want to ask you something. Sometimes we can overcomplicate things in business. And one of the things I admire something about you. I want to just tell you this personally too. When I meet somebody young or even that's coming in a bit, the scariest person to me. And you talk about this in the book, to compete against, like, if I have to compete against a company or a business or a person, the scariest person for me is the hungry one. Like, they're hungry, right? Like, it's an underestimated, undervalued trait, hunger. Like, just flat out. It used to be talked about all the time with Napoleon. Now it's desire. Like someone who wants it so bad, they're going, they'll. They'll sleep in the office. They'll, you know, and so I want you to talk about that. But also in your case, I don't know how old you are either, but we're both not young guys like this. We're. We're taking a Saturday right now, and we're helping people. You're still hungry. And you've been a, in the metaphorical sense, financially, a very well fed man. You're incredibly wealthy. You built all kinds of different businesses. There's something in you that's that dog that got, you know, that thing, right? Like, talk about that. One, how important hunger is. And two, how have you kept it as you've had so many successes in your life?

[John Morgan]

Well, the very first book I wrote was called you'd can't teach Hungry. Okay? And people, sometimes people would say, what does that mean? And I would say to them, if I got explained that to you, don't read the book, don't, don't bother. Because it's, it's just something in us. It goes back to the paper boy, goes back to you at the golf course. It goes back to me selling candy in school. There is just, there is just something there.

[Ed Mylett]

Look at your face change even when you start to talk about it, right?

[John Morgan]

There's just something there and what it really is. I think at the end of the day you get to a point where you know, how much is enough? And you know, I used to think, you know, at one point I thought 10 million was enough. And then I thought, I thought 30 million with your house paid off is enough. 30 million with tax free bonds get your 1.2 million a year free. And you know, I'm living like a chic on 1.2 million. I mean, with my house paid off. Because the number one check we write every month is the mortgage. But then what happens is you keep going. It's, and this is why I write in the book a little bit about youth sports while you see so many jackasses coaching youth sports because most people don't get to get up every day and win or lose. But in business we get to win and lose or win or lose every single day. That competition, that having an idea, that this is a great idea. I just rolled out a new concept called Downtown Flavortown. And it's with Guy Fieri. And it's basically Guy Fieri meets Dave and Busters. So it's not, it's nothing new, it's nothing revolutionary. It's an arc. It's a redemption arcade with food and booze and bowling alleys. But, but I looked at, I go, dave and Busters has a monopoly on all this. What if I took a figure like God and matched it with that and, and my expertise and, and so I've built two of them. What I get in. Last night I did a Yesterday, I did 120, $122,000 in my location in Myrtle Beach. I look every morning, I wake up, I love it. Numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers. But what about is that. That that business is not going to change my life at all. But you know what? The satisfaction of finding the location, building it out, saying, this is gonna work. And when it works, it's like a Broadway play when you're there, that Broadway play that you've written, the music and the people are standing up and they're cheering you. Like, I was right. I knew what they wanted. And there is a satisfaction that's bigger than money. It's bigger than money.

[Ed Mylett]

It's really well said, John. That's really well said.

[John Morgan]

Yeah, it's just bigger than money. It's like I figured out what America. I built an attraction, everybody's like, oh, my God. Called Alcatraz East. It's a history of crime and punishment in Pigeon Forge. And I built it first. I failed. I built it in dc. And I write about this in the book. I built it in dc. I called it the National Museum of Crime and Punishment. But I couldn't do the building. I should never have gone to dc. Location, location, it's too much. Too many things are free. DC's tough. But I built this masterpiece. Now, the other thing about luck that we don't talk about is failure can still be your friend. Most people never use failure for the next thing, but I took that failure in D.C. i go, you know what? This was a masterpiece. I moved everything to Pigeon Forge, a tourist town. I built what looks like a prison in the 1800s. I call it Alcatrazes. It's the history of crime and punishment. The exact failure, I mean, everything in it's the same is printing money in Pigeon Forge. Printing money. But I had to take that failure. I had to get over that failure and believe in what I had done, and then take that failure, rework it in a better location, in a better city. And so I would say to everybody out there, you know, it's very important that your failures turn out to be assets going forward. Because if failure just freezes you and puts you on the sideline, you fail for no reason. You got nothing out of that failure.

[Ed Mylett]

It's really, really great point. I'm really glad that you said that. This is a little bit becoming like a master class on life and business. Morgan and Morgan, of all your businesses, almost no one listening to this has not heard of them. And I want you to speak to this for a sec. I just really want to know your opinion. When I got into business, I'm 55. So when I got into business, it was morally, it was really becoming. It was more important who you knew, like, could you make connections. Right. I feel like something's happened the last 10 or 15 years where it's not who you know, it's now who knows you. And branding, what. How do you feel about that? Like, did you intentionally build this brand? And when you're building these other business, you've dropped the name specifically a couple times here, which is smart. Right? So how do you feel about how critical it is for someone to either build a personal or business brand or both?

[John Morgan]

Well, look, when I first started, you know, there was no computers on our desk. So, I mean, I remember when I first saw a BlackBerry for the first time, I was at a Yankees game with some guys in New York and they had all these blackberries, like, what are y' all doing? What. What are these things? You know? And I was like, it was like being on Mars. And I went back and I got my URL, you know, for the people.com that the next week I started thinking about what should my URL be.

[Ed Mylett]

Wow, okay.

[John Morgan]

But in the beginning, Morgan and Morgan was. It was me out there knocking on doors. I lived in union halls. I went and shot pool and threw darts and played shuffleboard with the plumbers and the pipe fitters and afl. I mean, that's where the business came from.

[Ed Mylett]

Okay.

[John Morgan]

In 1979, the Supreme Court said lawyers could advertise. You couldn't even advertise up until 1979 or 77. And Bates versus Arizona. And then I go, well, so there was other firms that were advertising. I didn't want to be a TV lawyer. I thought that was beneath me. But all these TV people were getting cases and they were sending them to me. And I was thinking I was living out of their, not their good cases.

[Ed Mylett]

Right.

[John Morgan]

I was like, if you're driven by and see a guy in a dumpster eating a whopper, that was me. I was eating half eaten whoppers out of the dumpster. But then I saw what was happening. The stagecoach and the train. And the train was leaving the station.

[Ed Mylett]

Interesting.

[John Morgan]

The state. And I had to make a decision because I didn't want to do it. I had to make a decision. Do I get on this train? Do I ride this stagecoach, you know, into the sand? And I. And I decided to do it. And as it turned out, it was a big decision. I remember me and my wife were at the beach and the kids were little and, you know, it was risky. And I said, but this, this, I use those words, the train is leaving the station. And so I did it today. You know, ever, if you ask 10 people who own who started Amazon, I don't know how many people could say Bezos, right? It doesn't even matter, right? And we don't care where the stuff's coming from, but all we know is when we type in, you know, suntan lotion somehow at our doorstep before we go to sleep. We just want it now. We just want it now. So I was good at marketing and I kept plowing my money back into people ask me all the time, how do you scale? The best way you scale is when you're young, take your profits and feed the businesses. A lot of people take their profits and buy boats and buy cars and houses they can't afford. I didn't make a million dollars Till I was 41 years old. Everybody thought I was making all this money. No, I was flooding my money back in, you know, Orlando, then Tampa, then Jacksonville. And now, you know, my first year, my budget was 100 grand. And this year we'll spend 600 million and advertising on all things, all places. So look, marketing is here. It's here to stay. And the good thing about me is my firm has had such great results through the years that we have a lot to talk about. And at the end of the day, the proof's in the pudding.

[Ed Mylett]

August is the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. And I'm getting compliments. You guys listen to the show. You're like, hey, where'd you get the shirt? Mylette looks good on you. I got it. At Quince, their clothes are made with premium materials, built to last, and designed to become the ones you reach for every day. Quint specializes in everyday staples that work harder, like their ultra soft organic cotton tees, which I'm wearing right now, and premium Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands, which is why I go there. No markups, no middlemen, right to the dealer. And it's not just the clothing. Quints has my go to for everything from hotel quality bedding, bath essentials, premium cookware, travel must haves. So upgrade your everyday. Download the Quint app for exclusive offers or go to quint.com ed get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK, that's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com scaling a business requires the right expertise and at the right time. Upwork helps growing teams quickly bring in specialized freelancers so you can move faster and take the business to the next level. Upwork's a one stop platform where you can find, hire and pay expert freelancers across the web and software development, data and analytics, marketing, business ops and a whole lot more stuff. Upwork helps grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to a full time headcount and ruining your overhead. With Business plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. You'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. Upwork also cuts down operational hassle by handling things like contracts and payments in one place. So here's the deal. You just spend more time running your business, not doing payroll and looking for the right people. They'll help you do that part. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's upwor k.com upwork.com Guys, I just want to step back because you're in a lengthy interview here. That lesson of investing back in My father was not an entrepreneur, but he was a smart guy. And when I'd be making money, my dad, I'd say, dad, should I buy a house, I buy this, should I buy that? My dad said I'd put that money back into the thing you control that you can drive the earnings on. And I'm sitting here today on this, in this conversation with this other very successful entrepreneur because I did exactly what he said. I took money back into that business, I tried to expand it, I tried to put capital in a place I could control, control its growth the best. Not in some other company. Not even. That doesn't mean I didn't buy a bunch of investments, life insurance and real estate, as I went along. I did. But my main investment was back into my own business on a very regular basis.

[John Morgan]

And one thing, and one, here's one thing that people forget about, that every dollar you put in, you get to almost immediately write off 40%.

[Ed Mylett]

People do forget.

[John Morgan]

Yeah, people, that, that's a big, that's a big lesson. Think about this. Think of every dollar you put in the stock market. You got to deduct 40%. Well, the best Stock market I've ever invested in. You're looking at it. And I bet you, and I will bet you this the best stock market you've ever invested in. I'm looking at it.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep. I'm going to tell you right now, this last five minutes, one of the. By the way, no one's ever said what you just said in the history of 900 episodes on the show. And I'm telling you all that is one of the most profound, best clips we've ever had on the show is what we just talked about invest, investing back in. But one of the reasons is, is that is a deductible. You got a 40% return if you're an entrepreneur before you even got a return on your return.

Right?

Awesome.

[John Morgan]

Right?

[Ed Mylett]

Ask you this, like, just a broad question because we're gonna, we're a limited time. You look back at your life from the paper route to now, and I'm, I just watched an interview with the guy from Nvidia and they said, hey, if you knew now how hard it was to build what you were going to build, you know, and what advice would you give the young you? And he really thought about it for a second. You know what he said? He goes, I probably wouldn't have done it. If I knew how hard it was going to be, I probably wouldn't have done it. I thought, well, that's an honest answer. That's a real entrepreneur. I mean, I don't know whether I agree with that or not, but that's a real answer. I'm wondering, let us into your life a little bit. Has this been worth it? All the risks, all the ups and downs. By the way, here's what I know about you. Because you're an entrepreneur. You've had people betray you, you've had people talk bad about you. You probably had litigation. You probably had false starts. You probably had mistakes. You've probably had people take advantage. You probably made a couple bad decisions. All of that to say you're also one of the most successful men in the country in your own right. Is all of that crap worth it? As you sit there at your desk here on a Saturday morning, was it worth it? Someone listening to this is wondering. They're going through that hard part right now. And they may debating, they may be negotiating in their mind debating it. Should I keep going? Is this worth it? What's the honest answer? And I'm very curious to hear what you have to say about it, because I don't know.

[John Morgan]

Well, the honest answer is like building that upside down house when I was in my 30s, I would never do it today. What we know is this the reason insurance is so expensive for 16 year olds. The younger you are, the more risk adverse. You don't, you know, you'll write, you'll, you'll drive out and squeal out and take crazy chances because we don't, we don't. We haven't developed enough fear. And that's the advantage of youth. The advantage to youth is, you know, when we're swinging that bat, it's like we're, we're in a batting cage. We're just taking, we're just ripping. When you get older, you get a little bit more timid. The average, the. All the great. I write about music in my book, all the great music is written by people in their teens and twenties. There's not many people write songs. And so. But what I would say is, what I would say about that is when I look back at all of it and the same I guarantee for you, if somebody had said to you when you were 18, this is what your life's going to be, you would have said, how? Why, yes. What's a podcast, right? And because here's what happens in our life. First of all, you've heard this said before. The journey is the reward. For me, the climb has been way more fun than getting to the mountain.

[Ed Mylett]

I believe you on that. With you, I do the climb.

[John Morgan]

The climb, it's the chase, it's getting to win and then going up and going up and going up and going up and you're being successful and you're growing. It's the climb is the joy. When you get to the top of Camp Mount Kilimanjaro, now you got to go down. That looks harder, that looks harder to me than going up. Or you can just stay up there and walk around in circles. Or what I choose to do is keep climbing new mountains like downtown Flavortown or new offices. So here's what life is. There's a great poem, and you've heard it by Robert Frost. The two I came to the road to a fork in the road, and I took the road less traveled. Yep, I think I took the roads less traveled. And the end of that poem, Robert Frost says, I took the road less traveled. And that has made all the difference. When we come to these forks in the road as young people, we don't really know what's down either road. We don't really know. We're looking, we're looking at stars, but we might be Walking off a cliff or we might be walking into a gold mine. We don't really know. But sometimes you have to walk down that road to a dead end. And sometimes you have to walk back and keep walking down another road. That happens to us too. But the exhilaration of winning and the climb, you get to that next level and you go, you know what? I was right. It's way, way, way more important than money. Because for me, I'm not a. I don't live. I could, I could live a much better life. But for me, you know, the food I like is stuff like, you know, cube steaks with fried onions and fried potatoes and cabbage. I don't need. I'm not a caviar, you know, guy. I'm from Kentucky. I like, I like out of the pressure cooker. So good green beans and pressure cooker. So that's what it is now. And you know, and listen. I will tell all the people who's listening, who's thinking about retiring. Remember what Bobby Bowden said, Once you retire, there's only one more big event.

[Ed Mylett]

That's good. I needed to hear that too, bro. Trust me. Sometimes I dance with that thought.

[John Morgan]

And by the way, and by the way, you know, you don't have to do what we did. I mean, look, the grind in the beginning was unbelievable. And the way I look at my life now, it's like this. I'm not over in Afghanistan fighting hand to hand to hand.

[Ed Mylett]

You got it.

[John Morgan]

I'm over at McDill in Tampa with drones and I've got computers up. And at 12 o' clock, I leave the office and we go to Carrabba's.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right.

[John Morgan]

For lunch.

[Ed Mylett]

You're right. It's all.

[John Morgan]

There's different ways to fight the war.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right.

[John Morgan]

Older you get, the more. Especially in this day and age. Look, you're in Cleveland, I'm at the beach and we're working.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right.

[John Morgan]

And what you're doing today is going to help your business. And what I'm going to do it today is going to help my business. And we're still working.

[Ed Mylett]

I was thinking too, I'm gonna ask you one last question. Just sitting here listening to you. How cool it is that word I do this. And yet it dawns on me periodically how cool it is that people can listen into something like this. This didn't exist 20 years ago where you could listen to someone who's accomplished what you've done and two guys just kind of chop it up about life and business and pull lessons from it. Like this age we're living in. If you really want to go for it, there's no shortage of information between AI, between a podcast like this. Like, this is just really a blessing, like, even for me to sit here with you and have this conversation. It's like, what a great time to be alive and to decide to do something great and make your dreams come true. So just. That's how much I'm grateful for the conversation.

[John Morgan]

And listen and you're in the same boat. You're younger than me. But look, where do we get our information before we just read books, Tons of them. Just, just. I couldn't read enough, you know, the millionaire next door. I mean, I just. Reading, reading, reading. And now we get to, you know, watch Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos talk about. Or Warren Buffett. You can't get enough of that guy. Yeah, and it's supplanted books to a degree, you're right.

[Ed Mylett]

But by the way, you and I are both still avid readers. And that's one lesson, too. I want to ask you. This last thing. This is just has nothing to do with business. It's just like an eclectic thing. You're talking about how, like, you like cube steak or whatever. You're a quirky, interesting dude. So my son, I said, find something on this dude I can ask him about that's kind of unique. And so you could collect art, which I'm sure you have done some. You could collect lots of different things. Is it true? And why the heck did you do it? That you own OJ's Bronco and Ted Bundy's Volkswagen? Is this true? Is that a fact?

[John Morgan]

I own that's in my crime museum in Pigeon Forge. The grand finale, when you go, I got everything I got. Listen, I got you. Remember the movie with Al Pacino said, say hello to my little friend. Of course I own my little friend.

[Ed Mylett]

You do not.

[John Morgan]

I own Martin Luther King's death mask. I own so much memorabilia, crime memorabilia. But the at the end, because I know people like cars. Americans are fascinated with cars. I drive out, there'll be people, you know, with Corvettes, you know, at a parking lot on a Saturday, thousands of Corvettes with the hoods. I'm like, what are they doing? But they like it. So what I did for my museum, I said, look, I'm going to have grand finale is going to be cars. So what I got in the grand finale, I got John Dillinger's sedan that he got shot through. Bonnie Clyde's death car from the movie Ted Bundy's vw. I just got the Murdoch golf cart from the Murdoch Killer.

[Ed Mylett]

Do not have that.

[John Morgan]

JonBenet's bicycle. But the. But the grand finale is OJ's Bronco.

[Ed Mylett]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Morgan]

You know, that's the Mona. That's my Mona Lisa at my museum. So anybody listening? Alcatraz, East Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. Flavortown's right behind us. And right down the road is Wonderworks. You can, you can do all sorts of things in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee.

[Ed Mylett]

You're a force man. Now, I've done a lot of podcasts. None of them have finished this way. That was damn good. Hey, John. I've enjoyed this very much.

[John Morgan]

Me too.

[Ed Mylett]

Thank you, thank you. And by the way, everybody, John's book is Life is Luck. If you think this was entertaining, imagine the book. You're going to learn a ton as well. So, John, thank you everybody else, God bless you. Max out your life. This is the Ed Milan show.

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[John Morgan]

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[Ed Mylett]

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