Jordan Belfort (2:27)

Thank you. I was very nice, Ed, and I feel the same about you. Obviously, you on my podcast a zillion years ago, and it was one of my best, you know, performing podcasts. I don't do. I'm so busy right now. I really haven't done podcasts in a couple of years. But you were great, and so it's great to be back, you know?

Ed Mylett (2:42)

Yeah, it's great to be with you, brother. So, you know, I want to. You've been on every podcast, so I want to have a little bit of a different conversation with you and do stuff that, like, it's hard for guy at your stature and your level, for people when they listen to you to, like, relate to the story at all. Right. Like, it's one of the great stories of all time. But one of the theories I have about what holds people back is they get attached to a story about themselves, something that happened when they were a kid or their divorce or a business setback. They get attached to a story and then. Or who they believe they are, and then it almost just. It reconfirms the story over and over again in their life. And in your case, that one window of your life is, like, the story, right? And it's how everybody knows you did to some extent. I know it was a great thing because you got notoriety from it, but I have to think there's a part that's like, all right, I was. Like, I was a kid. I was young. Like, I'm a different human being now. How did you break out of that? Like, how did you change the narrative of this is who you are in your life? And I know you probably don't get asked that a lot or if ever, but I'm curious, because I think people listening are attached to this story, and they got to change the narrative.

Jordan Belfort (3:50)

It's a good question. I mean, for starters, I would say that I personally, in my own mind, never had an issue with, like, breaking out of that. Like, I knew I wasn't that guy anymore, and I think that's because that wasn't the guy I was when I started, in other words. So, you know, it wasn't like I had to find some new Person. It was more about rediscovering the person I was before I veered off course and went hog wild and, and you know, and listen, I never want to minimize what I did, but the fact is, is I was on Wall street and you know, that goes down on Wall street. Like what I did is nothing in compared to, to what happened during the gfc, the global financial crisis where like, you know, Goldman bankrupted Iceland. I mean that I'm not, I'm not trying to say two rights, you know, two wrongs make a right, not minimizing. But it wasn't like, you know, after the gfc, it was like, ah, you see, I mean I was, I've been saying like guys, it's, you know, and I don't deserve to go to jail. I made mistakes. I, you know, I manipulated stocks.

Blinds.com Announcer (4:53)

Yeah.

Jordan Belfort (4:53)

I'm not trying to minimize that. So. But in my own mind, it wasn't like I'm, like I'm a criminal. I was, I never got in trouble in my life. I come from a family where no one ever got in trouble. My parents are the most honest. My dad, rest in pieces honest. My mom is, you know, the oldest woman in New York state to pass the bar. She was a CPA back in the 50s when, you know, women were not in the workplace like that. She was in the city at a big one of the big, you know, eight back then. Now it's like probably the big three or four accounting. So it wasn't like this thing like, okay, I have to learn to be a better person. It's more like, wow, you know, I really took a left turn in Albuquerque, you know, and I think I have to examine one thing. It's probably my values. No, and I think that's really what, what, what really got corrupted in the sense of put putting a value on money above everything else. Like how much? How do you make more? That question you ask yourself, how do you make more versus how do I give more value to people? Because the bottom line is business. And making money the right way is simply about knowing how to monetize value. If you have something valuable that helps people, you can get rich. And the more people you help, the richer you're going to get if you know the rules of business. So like, so those, and, and those rules I do know quite well. And I learned a lot of them from failing. I learned them from my failures and I learned them from my successes, but more from my failures, by the way, and my successes. You know, that's how you learn and you grow. And of course, back in my day, there was no Internet, there were no courses, there weren't really mentors like there are today. So you had figure a lot of out on your own. You didn't have entrepreneurship courses. There are some great mentors out there, teachers. Well, you're one of them, right? There are some great people, right. So I think for me it wasn't so much about having to discover a new person, but to rediscover the old person. Now changing people's minds about you, that's a different side of the story. So I mean, if you talk about self belief, I didn't have an issue with that. I knew I'd never get in trouble again and I veered away from anything that could even possibly get me in trouble. Right. You know, I, I don't listen. I could have launched a meme coin 10 times and made 30, 50, $100 million. Never did, could have launched NFTs, never did all the things that I knew I can make quick hits. And I always had this idea, well, you know, if I make a ton of money, is someone else losing money as a result of me making money? And if that's what's happen, I'm not into it. I've done, I've been down that road before and it doesn't feel good. Thankfully I have enough money right now. I don't need to do that and I would never sacrifice my ethics that way because it doesn't end well and you don't feel good after anyway. So those are sort of like the, the rules that I live by right now. And it's cost me a lot of opportunity. I could have made a lot more money than I have, but I didn't launch a coin into an nft. I didn't engage in any of that nonsense and I think I'm better off for it, at least inside. Maybe my bank account doesn't have as many zeros as it could add, but it has enough zeros for me to live the life.

Ed Mylett (7:45)

I want to say that you get enough zeros. I have this theory lately and I'm really curious. You and I could speak to this, I think at our age too. And this is not something you'd hear on like most motivation or self help or business podcasts, but it's something I wanted to ask you about. So if you look at like climbing the ladder of life, right, like when you're young and you're, and you don't have a lot of responsibilities in single, I think every rung for the most part, if you do it ethically, is worth whatever the trade off is to climb higher. Right? This is, this is. I've always wanted to ask you this since we met, but there is a point in my opinion, as I've gotten older, that these extra rungs, and this may not affect everybody listening today, but it will at some point, hopefully in your life, where you've climbed pretty high and you do have some zeros in your bank account now. Maybe you got a little notoriety. No one ever tells you it's worth evaluating the trade off for the next rung, Right? There really is. At some point on the climb, in my opinion, you do need to start to evaluate how's this affecting my health, my mental health, my relationships. No one ever talks about this. And I started climbing, you know, I had a TV show with NBC and eventually I was like, I don't know if this next rung I'm grabbing for is worth the trade off in the climb. And I've kind of observed that with you. Like, you got all this, you got hot. I mean, you are hot. Like, lot of notoriety. But I also know you, like, you're kind of like a romantic dude. Like, you love your relationships, you love the significant person in your life. Like, did you do that at some point? What would your advice be to someone? Like, climb your tail off now, but at some point you got to start looking at this stuff, right?

Jordan Belfort (9:30)

Sure. I mean, obviously, like, you know, listen, you know, if you're still acting the same way when you're in your 50s as you are when you were in your 20s, are you still asking yourself the same questions then? You haven't really lived, you haven't grown. You have a real issue. Right. And I think for someone who's in their 20s or their 30s, that that is a time when you want to actually literally go out there and you want to focus on staking your claim and making, you know, a ton of money. Because I think money matters. It is important. Now then, that depends on your value. Value money. Everyone has their own number and their own standard of what they want to make. So, you know, as long as you're congruent with what your belief systems are about, you know, I want to be super rich, but I don't really want to put in the effort. Well, that's not going to really end that well. Right. But for people like us who had a desire to really be successful and make a lot and live a great life financially, right. There's a time when you gotta, you know, put the Hours in. Now, just to be clear, I still put the hours in right now because I love it.

Ed Mylett (10:30)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Belfort (10:30)

It's not like if I didn't. If I didn't. I don't look at my work as work.

Ed Mylett (10:35)

Right? Everybody, just so you know, this is a Saturday. He and I are doing this on a Saturday morning, so most people are cooning on the weekends. He and I are still crushing it. So keep that in context.

Jordan Belfort (10:44)

I was coding since 7:00am this morning. All right? I've been coding since 7. I. You know, I code. I'm an AI company, and I've been coding and. And debugging. I did it 17 hours. I mean, like, I'm on a tear. Yeah. To me, like, it's not work. I enjoy it. It keeps me stimulated. I would go crazy if I just sat there. But I still worked out yesterday. You know, my wife is here. In other words, it's balance. So. So. But here's the point that I think you really make, which is a good one. And, you know, there. There's a difference when you're saying, you know, I want to climb higher and make more. You know, the most money I ever made is not when I'm working the hardest, necessarily. It's like, you know, like, if you have a good business and you built it the right way, you know, whether you make a million a year, 10 million, or 100 million is really more a function of how well the business was structured, what industry you're in. And because. And, you know, and the timing, too, by the way. But the point is, you really have to work harder to make a lot more money. It's really. Some of it is. Some of it is luck, by the way. Some people get lucky. And when I say luck, it's not like, oh, I just know there's a lot of massive power. But you just were in the right place, right time, then you had the right idea. You executed right. So you could work your ass off and make $200,000 a year. In one industry, you can work your ass another, make 10 or then cash out for 50 or $1 billion. So it's not so much that it's like, I have to work harder to make more. The thing you're talking about is, like, chasing after every opportunity, actually.

Ed Mylett (12:13)

Yes.

Jordan Belfort (12:14)

You're like. You have to, like, you want to be more significant, and then you find out that all you're doing basically is. Is executing on ideas, and you're not really living a life. That's a very different thing.

Ed Mylett (12:23)

Correct. Yeah. And I think People should know that. I, I, I, I, I'm big on it right now because I don't think most successful people will warn you about it. And I just think like in my case, like there's a point where you got to evaluate what you are trading for the pursuit of significance, money, whatever it is. And by the way, I totally agree with you. I've been happy poor and happy rich. Happy rich is a zillion times better.

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Ed Mylett (13:38)

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Jordan Belfort (15:30)

Yeah, right. Well, let me. Of course, listen, I think, you know, sometimes, you know, there's someone, and it's kind of like you're very similar, so it's very easy to get into rapport with someone who's similar to you. Right. And also, you know, one of the things that's a benefit to me or a detriment to some people, I guess, is that everyone knows me pretty well, my reputation. So you could love me or hate me, whatever. If you want to hate what I did 38 years ago, go ahead. I'm happy to. You know, the haters drive. Engagement is more than the lovers anyway. But. But either way. So, you know, for me, it's pretty. Like, I go in with a lot of sort of, you know, backstory and a lot of credentials already loaded in, and you the same. Okay. You the same. Right. But there is this idea, and it's very true in terms of this initial impression. And it's just, you know, literally. And it's. It's very simple, and it's learnable in terms of how you make eye contact, how you shake hands with somebody, how close do you stand? You know, what's your tonality? Like, you're like, hey, nice to meet. Hey, nice to meet you. You know, this simple stuff that's learnable, but it's powerful.

Ed Mylett (16:32)

And.

Jordan Belfort (16:33)

And. And then what happens, though? And I think what people don't realize is that you said that to your son. Like, I like the guy instantly. But if I would have revealed Myself to be in second number eight or second number 30 or in minute number five. You would have, you would have said, john, the guy is an idiot. I hated him the second I laid up. Like all those first few seconds there was advise you the opportunity to then prove that your first impression was correct. So you have to very. It's not like you make a good first impression. And now I'm an. It's true. First impression opens up the ability then to get the deep rapport. Rapport is not a constant. Right. But one of these people to be very, very aware of is that, you know, you're one stupid statement away from revealing yourself to be, you know, a novice or an. And you have to really when you're. Especially in a business setting now when you're with your friends is very different. You know, you just want to be you. Although like again they always say when you meet someone for the first time, a girl or a guy, I said my representative, it's like my best self.

Ed Mylett (17:35)

Right, everybody? Right? That's right.

Jordan Belfort (17:36)

You know, you do.

Ed Mylett (17:38)

But I, I also think like today, 30 years ago, a lot of the population weren't good at communication and selling. But like now it's at an all time low because of the Internet, because kids are in their phones. I mean people's interpersonal. I was here in the hotel last night and a bunch of young people got in the elevator with me. A couple of them knew who I was and I couldn't get any of them to even look me in the eye or introduce themselves. And that's not a, that's not a, that's not a global criticism. But like he has this thing you guys called the straight line system that I think you all should go get if you want to learn to sell and communicate better because you get into the real stuff. And I want to just. Let's just give everyone a little flavor here. One thing you're great at, like, great at when you speak on stage right now, today, one on one is your tonality. Your tonality. You know how to use inflection in your voice. You know how one tone is to command respect. And you're an authority figure. Another one's like, hey, to ease things up, you know, you do that very well. Speak to that a little bit.

Jordan Belfort (18:39)

Yeah, well, I mean I think that that's obviously, you know, one of the things I'm known for is the, is teaching tonality. And I think there are some people that naturally have really, really great tonality. I, I'm one of them for sure. Right. You are, too. This is. There's some. But most people don't really have that gift. It comes much less naturally. But again, the good news is it's an entirely learnable skill. And, you know, the way you learn it is by first. You know, the first thing is understanding. Like, okay, well, what are they? You know, what you know, you don't know what you don't know. Right. You're unconsciously incompetent. Right. And then the idea is like, someone raises. Like me raises your awareness and become consciously incompetent, like saying, oh, my God. So wait, I know he sounds so good for a reason. Like when Leo in the movie. Right. Leo sounded so amazing on the phone and when he gave the speeches. Right. Well, he didn't sound like that before I met him, when he would pick up a phone to try to sell stock, I trained him. And obviously he's an immensely talented individual.

Ed Mylett (19:36)

Wow. Okay, Instant.

Jordan Belfort (19:38)

But until he was trained, he didn't. Of course, he's smart enough to know. Show me how to do this. What is the system? How do you sound the way you sound? Right. And. And, you know, I broke it down from into these core tonalities and I showed him. Here's where you lower your voice here. Say you speak with certainty here. The. Jesse even made the gestures I made and everything. So it's a combination of body language, tonality. And the thing is, once you become aware there are tonalities, well, the first step then is to say, okay, well, in a sale, you know, let me granularly. If I had a script, then you start with the script, right? Because that's the only way to learn it. Where would I speak with certainty? Where would I lower my voice? Where would I speak with sincerity and empathy? Where would I say, like, sound, fair enough, you're reasonable, I'm reasonable, right. Where would I say, you know? You know, does it dim it? Feel like the idea, like, hypothetically is old right? Now, when you actually have that broken down view and applied and you actually practice that, right. And you take a couple of days, not very long to learn it, something really odd happens. Very quickly, your brain rewires itself and. And you no longer need to think about it, your brain, the more you practice, even if you're not born with the gift, all right, Even if you're terrible at it, you can get confident that it very quickly. It's like you have to script out everything you say for the rest of your life. Once you start getting into the rhythm and your brain starts to understand it will naturally start applying tonalities at the right points in conversation. And that's the key. So the first step is understanding what they are. Next step is saying, where do you say them? Then how do I say it? And then actually technically applying it through practice and role playing. And then you'll be going to be clunky at first, of course, not going to be. No one's perfect at first. Right. The old adage, no kids walk, every kid walks. Why? Well, at first they fall down, but the parents that give them encouragement, I don't want to repeat. That's an old Tony Robbins story.

Ed Mylett (21:30)

Oh, it's true, though.

Jordan Belfort (21:31)

But it's true. That's what I love, Tony. The truism. Right. But the point is, is that, like, that's how you learn. And I think some of the problems, like, they're scared to look ridiculous. Well, guess what? You know, if you don't not like to look a little bit ridiculous or sound a bit wooden in the beginning, well, you're never going to get perfect. But it doesn't take long to get perfect. It's worth it.

Ed Mylett (21:50)

By the way, you're all welcome. Because this is stuff that you really don't.

Jordan Belfort (21:53)

You.

Ed Mylett (21:54)

You watch people that you connect with do these things well. And if you're not aware, if you're not conscious, it's like invisible. Why you connect with them, why they persuade you. Now you're learning from two persuasive people how to do it. Here's the other thing that you do really well, and it's silence. So I've watched you speak on stage. We've actually not been backstage together, but we've been at many events where you're before me or after me and vice versa. And when I watch good standup comics, I watch good stage speakers, I watch great salespeople there. They have a different level of the utilization and comfort level with silence in a conversation. Right. And this is like a nuance most people don't realize. And it's just I want them inside. What you and I would talk about, talk about the idea of using or being comfortable with silence.

Jordan Belfort (22:45)

Yeah, yeah. We call it uncomfortable silences. And what happens is people that don't really communicate well, they feel the need to jump in and fill the vacuum.

Ed Mylett (22:52)

Yep, yep.

Jordan Belfort (22:53)

Yes. And obviously there's nothing wrong with silence. Okay. But even, like in sales, you know, especially in persuasion, right. You know, God gave you two ears and one mouth, so listen twice as much as you speak. Right. But. But like, that's kind of, you know, okay. And it's true. But when you speak, you want to say something that matters. And when you listen, you don't want to listen. Like, They'll hate you. It's what? Wow. Uhhuh. Yep. Uhhuh. This active listening. Yup. Mm. Nodding your head. Okay. Leaning back when someone's like scratching. Yep. Total. So it's just sort of like this communication. When you're not speaking, you're communicating all the time.

Ed Mylett (23:44)

What about also asking the second question? I just want to ask you about that. So to me, when I think someone's really listening to me, if they've asked me a question and then I've answered it, and then they'll ask like a clarification question or the next layered question, and then I'm like, oh, they're connecting with me. Whereas most people are like, I'm in sales now. I've learned to ask questions. And it's just like this robotic process of even podcasts like this, it's like robotic, like they didn't even hear what you said. They're onto the next thing on their list, right? Where it's like, I'm listening to you. And there's a, there's a, there's a second and a third and maybe even a fourth question down the line.

Jordan Belfort (24:19)

Right. So this is part. Well, it's funny you say that because it's like, it's like literally like dead on balls accurate. So like when I teach people like, you know, the art of prospect and gathering intelligence, right. You know, one of the rules is you want to, you know, go from big picture questions to smaller picture questions, less invasive questions, to more like the first question you ask someone, if you're trying to get someone to like, you know, invest in the stock market, I mean, how much money you have in the bank yourself. It's like, so you know, how long you've been in the mall, how long you've been in the market for what do you typically like? You like tech, you like questions. Anybody would answer. Ask four or five of those. And by the way, what do you have? What do you typically put into an idea? You know, ballpark. Yeah. And how much you have in the market. They'll tell you. Right, right. These rules. But one of the key rules, two sides to this is I'm going to take it even a layer deeper, right? Absolutely. It's about keeping a logical progression. Okay. And asking these follow ups, like unpacking, not ping ponging. Someone asks you a question, they give you get an answer. If that answer dictates A follow up, you need to follow up on that question and dig a bit deeper to get to the next layer. And in addition to that, if you want to really impress people, is almost when someone says something and you should be an expert in what you're selling in the field. Whatever problem you're trying to solve, you want to clarify what they said in a way that makes it even more powerful. So you mirror back to them. So let me understand. And then if you really have some insights of industry insight, even explain it more to them like exactly. Boom. Then they're like, holy, this guy gets it. He knows, wow. And you can really impress people. So you're not only following up with more questions, you're also clarifying what they said and even maybe giving insight. Not insight, it's something the ability to show tidbits of industry knowledge. It keeps building you up in their mind. As an expert, he's a real expert versus being a novice or just like, you know, somewhere in the middle. So yeah, keeping this logical flow, making sure that you ask follow ups. Don't ask them if they're nothing to follow up on, but when they're obviously there, you want to ask them. And you also want to make sure that you are communicating back to that you understand them and that maybe you even are adding value right from there by clarifying their statements and adding on even other problems. And you saw you might also be then running into this. Correct? Yeah, exactly.

Ed Mylett (26:41)

So, so last sales question. This is so good. I wasn't going to ask you this one, but since you said it, you said expert, right? What about just the mindset of your approach? Do you think if I'm in sales or anything, I sell cars, I sell, I own a dry cleaners and you walk in, it doesn't matter, that's still a form of sales, Right? Do you believe that the mindset I should have if I'm a realtor, let's just say I assume the, the mindset of an authority in that industry. Like I think this escapes most people. I'm like, I don't know if this person really is any good. Like, I'm gonna have knee surgery. I don't want it to be your third one. Like I want it, I want a great knee surgeon. Right. So do you think as a salesperson one of the key things is to assume the role, the mindset, the posture of an authority, like just being an authority in your industry or do you not buy into that?

Jordan Belfort (27:33)

No, you. It's an absolute must. And I'll tell you why? And it's one of the things that holds a lot of people back, especially in the beginning. Because the key is, is that human beings, intuitively we learn. We know what experts are supposed to look like and sound like, and we also know what they don't look like and sound like. We know that we've been exposed to this since we're very small. When we're very young, if we were sick, our parents took us to a doctor. We noticed how the doctor dressed a certain way, acted a certain way. Even our own parents deferred to the doctor. He had diplomas on the wall, and everyone treated him with respect because he had gone to school for many years and learned everything there was to know about making sick people better. And when you went in to see the doctor, what did he do? He started asking you questions and examining you. And when he asked you a question, you didn't say, well, why do you want to know that, Doc? How about that? No, you answer his questions honestly and forthrightly. Why? Because he's an expert. And then he asked you a series of questions. Then when he was done, he didn't say, okay, have a nice day. You're like, what? He said, okay, well, based on what you said, let me tell you, here's what's going on. He tells you what's happening, then gives you a prescription. If necessary, a procedure, whatever it might be, he gives you the solution. So we look and we. That's how we've been trained our life. When we were growing up, if we wanted to learn a sport, our parents would hire us a coach who was an expert, a tutor. When we got older, into business, if you had problems, you would hire a lawyer, an accountant. We seek out experts to help us solve our problems and eliminate pain points. And when we're in the presence of someone, and here's the important thing that we believe to be an expert, we defer. We allow the expert to control the flow of the encounter. That's what we do when we are in the presence of some we believe is a novice. We will try to control the encounter and cut them off, take them out into Pluto, and all bad things start to happen. Now, the problem is, is that when people start in an industry and start in sales, they feel like, well, I'm not an expert selling cars yet, so I really can't sound like one until I am. Okay, put me on a call and I'll sound like a expert, like in minutes. Now, believe me, the night before, I'd be up for 12 hours learning everything about cars. And I would. And I'm not saying to lie. I'm saying you want to actually act as if. And you better become an expert and close that gap really quick. But there is absolutely nothing that you need to. You don't have to, like, pretend to be a novice. You could act like one before you're one and then quickly close that knowledge gap. And conversely, I know a lot of people who are stone cold experts and sound like novices, and they can't sell that way out of a paper bed. So it's not so much being one, it's sounding like one. But then, of course, you want to become one or not. You don't want this to be like just a facade. You need to be an expert.

Ed Mylett (30:31)

You guys, this is so good. I got to tell you. Like, why did Jordan on. I just want to remind the audience of this. I'll tell you this, too. My dad was an alcoholic drug addict till I was 15. And then my dad got sober. And like anybody who gets sober, typically there's someone who helps you or becomes your sponsor or whatever it is. The guy who helped my dad get sober was sober himself 31 days. That's it. So he was not an expert. But what he was is he cared for what he did is he sounded like an expert, but he wasn't one. So a lot of you think that you've got to have, you know, you got to be the best in the world at what you do. Yeah, you do eventually. But in the interim, you can still make a lot of sales. You can still help a lot of people. One of those sales on getting sober was my dad, from a dude who was only sober 31 days. And I'm sitting here with all of you guys today, I think in large part because that did happen with my dad. So just remember the ripple effect of helping one person even in the beginning of your career. Now, here's what is the best part about everything Jordan teaches. Then we're going to shift gears to AI in a second. But which is ethical selling. And I think just because of the wolf of Wall street, like if they didn't encounter you the last trillion years since the movie, right. And seen your work, which there are people here today that haven't. We're not talking about manipulation here. We're not talking about trying to get somebody to do something that's not good for them. I just want you to speak to that. Because when you. Anytime in the world now where you start teaching people how to persuade or communicate, even like how I was raised. Ah, I got it. It's all like sleight of hand and trickeration over here. But that's not what we're talking about.

Jordan Belfort (32:05)

There's a few parts that. So clearly that's not that. I always say, like, you know, get. You know, you're not using the, you know, the straight line system. You're not using it because you want to get people to do things they shouldn't do or buy things they shouldn't buy. It's the opposite, right? It's about getting people to overcome these internal and mostly irrational barriers they have to taking action to get things they actually should get and solve problems they need to solve. There are some people, for example, that have what I call a very high action threshold. Their belief systems, their experiences as such, the way they're just wired makes it very difficult for them to make a decision. They will torture themselves that painfully slow when it comes to decisions. And they hate salespeople. They don't want to be persuaded. And very often those people go through life lacking a lot of things they need and. And don't have their problem solved. My dad was one of them. I love may rest of his wonderful dad, but he hated salespeople. Which is pretty funny, right? And ironic, at least. Ironically, though, it was just that, like, people like that, you. Well, how did they buy shit? Like, if they're that tough? Well, they buy things when they're desperate and they. When the pain gets so bad, then suddenly that action threshold drops, right? So, like. But once they buy from someone, that's their guy. Like my dad, he had his car guy. Like, Vinnie was a. His car guy. Vinnie at the Sonoko station, the local. Like, no one's touching my dad's Dodge Dart. But Vinnie, like Enzo Ferrari said, max, I'm gonna fix your car for free. I'm gonna make it. Enzo, don't touch my car, okay? Only Vinnie can. That was my dad with everything. Now I'll tell you a great story, though. You know, when I was about 12 and he was like that with everything, he had a car guy, he had a. Had a shirt guy. He had one barber, every one guy for everything. And they could be ripping his eyeballs out. Overcharged up. Vinny's my guy. And that's that, right? Because they don't want. That's how it happens, right? New York to Florida, New York to Williamsburg, Colonial, whatever it was. We went like three hours outside of New York right on the way down south, and we're like, like, not great part of the country. Right. Like hillbilly. And my father's car overheats. It's myself, my mother, my brother, and my dad's driving the Dodge Dart, right? And smoke coming out of the radiator and it's like 5:30pm and the sun's like, start the set. And you know, my dad did. He went to the first gas station he could find and said, fix my car. I don't care how much it costs. It could have said the name of the gas station could have been Dewey Cheatham and how. And he still would have done it. Because at that point, worry he was feeling causes action threshold to drop to zero. Just fix it. I don't care. Right now, in persuasion, we can use that to help people like my father make great decisions that they should be making by, you know, by uncovering what are their pain points, what are they really worried about? What is that deep worry that rests at the base of their skull and keeps them up all night long? And, and the way you get that uncover that is through intelligence gathering by asking questions and digging deeper, as we were speaking about. And once you have that information, you don't say, oh, I saw a problem solved. No, not just that. You want to amplify that. Let them really understand what is costing and what the problem is, what's holding them back. And. And then you want to reserve that. And later on in the conversation, when they're really in that point, they won't make a decision. You say, listen, let me ask you this. And you reintroduce that pain. Let them understand what's truly at stake. It's very powerful.

Ed Mylett (35:41)

Masterclass, everybody. You're welcome. You're welcome. This is so good. I mean, I'm actually processing this, thinking I love when I'm in the middle of doing a podcast, I'm like, this is going to download like crazy because the content is so good.

Jordan Belfort (35:53)

And you do all this automatically. You are a great communicator. Right, thank you. What happens is all the things I'm saying are part of the straight line system, but. So it's a system. But what happens is great communicators, great closers, they do all this. They do it unconsciously.

Ed Mylett (36:09)

Yep. Yeah. And some of it, by the way, some of it is actually consciously. And so also when you're a professional communicator and you hear someone speak truthfully about how to do it correctly, it's a validation. You're like, I do that. That's true for me. I see all this online guru stuff from these sales trainers And I'm like, that's just crap. That's not how it works. That's not the real world. And by the way, that's not even ethical what you're doing, teaching. And so that's why what? You know one of the things that frustrates me? Bank fees and banking fees. As the son of a guy who worked in a bank for a long time, that stuff frustrates me. And that's why I love Chime. Chime is changing the way people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee free banking. This is fee free banking built for you. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. They have thousands of free ATMs. Why would you pay to get your own money? You're not switching banks. You're upgrading to America's number one choice for banking. I got to tell you something, the younger me would have benefited from this so dramatically when I was worried about overdraft and bank fees. And currently I can tell you I'd benefit from it right now as well. I'm really excited about them. Chime's not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com mylet that is chime.com mylet it only takes a few minutes to sign up and you'll be glad you did. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime Card provided by Chimes Bank Partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. So. Hey guys, have you ever noticed your sheets slipping off the corners lately? I mean, it may sound like a weird question, but it bugs me. Or maybe your pillows, they just don't feel like they support you anymore. Most people actually keep their bedding way longer than they should. And I'm telling you on the podcast, the most important thing we keep talking about for your energy, your wellness and your longevity and your cognitive function is sleep. And that's why I upgraded our bed with bowl and branch. They make everything your bed needs. Their signature organic cotton sheets, pillows, blankets, comforters are all designed to be breathable, incredibly soft and better over time. I'm telling you, I'm kind of chuggling because they're so comfy and my sleep has improved so much. Upgrade your sleep with bowl and branch. Get 15 off your first order plus free shipping at bonus bolandbranch.com mylet and use code mylet that's bowl and branch. B O L L A N-D branch.com mylet code mylet to unlock 15% off exclusions apply. You're talking about. You know, I resonate with so much. So a little bit of a name dropper thing. I want to shift a little bit because we only got, we have too much time. But you're doing stuff in AI right now. You were telling me off camera where you got some huge success in that lane already as well. So it's an ironic Leo thing. I was sitting in event about five months ago and Leo was sitting next to me. Who played you in the movie. Right. And, and by the way, he's not a talkative dude until you get the ball rolling a little bit.

Jordan Belfort (39:01)

Right. Guy. By the way. He's a great guy.

Ed Mylett (39:04)

He's a great guy. I got to know him that night. He's a terrific guy.

Jordan Belfort (39:07)

You know me because we're friends.

Ed Mylett (39:08)

Of course I did. How do you think I bridged the gap? I dropped your name. Of course I did. And there's another actor there that's actually a really good friend of mine, which also helped. But anyway, I asked them both, I said, what's different in the movie business than say five, 10 years ago? And like they both their heads almost dropped like, oh, bro, like streaming's changed everything. Number one, the way we shoot the movies. But he said, I said, what's the biggest one? He goes, it's just starting, but it's AI and, and he goes, the way movies are going to be shot, what budgets we're going to be allowed to do, how scenes are set up, it's how writing is going to be done. It's a real tsunami coming to our industry and I don't where it's all going to land. And, and then I started to think about what we do, meaning anything sales related, anything anyone's doing. You know, like, I certainly wouldn't mind being a plumber right now because I think those dudes are safe. But like, what are your overall thoughts or advice to people listening about this thing coming our way called AI when it comes to sales, but also just, you know, entrepreneurship in general, you've obviously decided to get out in front of this cram course. You're. If I, when I met you, if I said you'd be coding the morning that we're doing my podcast someday, you'd be like, what the heck is coding? Like there's no way. So take them through kind of what you've done to get in front of it and your thoughts on it.

Jordan Belfort (40:30)

I, I got into Artificial intelligence, baby. It was about two years ago. A little bit more maybe. Right. We run people's sales operations and advise them. Right. And. And they were trying to. Some company forgot the name that maybe Air AI or something. Oh, we have a sales agent that's an AI and it can go out there and close sales and do lead generation. And. And my was. I didn't even hear about directly. Someone else got pitched at the company then said it to me. I said, well, let me hear. And it sucked. Terrible. Right. Then I went and looked at the pricing. The pricing was ridiculous back then. Right. But it was not good. The latency was terrible. You could fool it in two seconds. It would say stupid. Right. But that was the first like shot across the bow maybe. It was almost two and a half years, maybe even three. Wow. So it was early, right? It was when chat GPT. It was like 3.0 maybe. It was like a really. But I'm always very nice to AI, so let me rule us. It's not going to kill me, you know. Oh, I love.

Ed Mylett (41:29)

Right, right.

Jordan Belfort (41:31)

A friend of mine, good friend of mine, a top vc, Shervin Pishavar, and I, his good friend, we were out for dinner. I told him this and I said, you know, if we could build an AI, imagine me, imagine if I could have a digital twin Jordan that knew everything and we could teach this thing to sell like me. That'll be freaking amazing. And so began this venture, okay. That we first funded it ourselves. And I spent about a year just wasting money because I had to learn about technology, all right. And engineers and good ones and bad ones. But I went on a massive crash course. I'm really tech. I am so technical. You wouldn't even believe it how technical I am about artificial intelligence coding and architecture. And so I had to. Because I'm a believer in any business you're in, if you don't know that business, you don't know the interest. You are going to get slammed. Your people will lie to you that they. Not that they even need to, but they just get, you know, you can't tell fact from fiction, blah, blah, right. And then I got lucky in the sense that the tailwinds. And I knew this was really luck. I knew that the AI would improve, the models would improve. That was obvious to me. So I didn't. So I always built it from the sense that I'm not worried. I'm not building this application for what AI can do today. I'm trying to catch this when it's ready in a Year and a half from now. So I didn't go into this trying to build a sales agent that can get on a telephone call and qualify a lead. I didn't do that. I had that. And we do that. We have a company that does that. That's child's play. It's nothing. Right. Okay. Do it in two seconds. Right. I said I want to build an AI that can fricking close a complex sale, carry on a conversation over two months if it has to do with callbacks, texting, email, persistent memory, an Omni channel agent that can actually handle a conversation complex insurance, financial services, mortgages, and literally close like me. When it's still. People don't think it's. We do it. Okay. And it's still not quite ready. Just to be clear, it's like another two months away from full enterprise ready. So we're still in stealth mode, right? Because it's very difficult to do that. Like what I'm saying. It's not like it is not. Whatever you think about AI, these things are Einstein and Forrest Gump at the same time. That's what they are. Okay. And you can't. Where people most mostly fall down with this stuff is the model is only one part of it. Okay. You need a very complex architecture around the model with persistent memory state management routers that keep the model honest. There's all these different app is a very complex application. And once you have that architecture, then you can start handling conversation that could run 30 minutes, an hour. You can have a conversation that goes eight minutes and you know, can you call me back at 3:00 this afternoon? Sure, no problem. And it remembers where you are, picks up where it left off and sends you a text in the middle, calls you back in a week, collects doc. So that's what I've been building with my team. But the plan is, well, you know, we're already post revenue, but we're going to really launching now over the next 30 days, big scaling and then we're going to do a series A at the end of probably hopefully May or June. My partner is a massive player in the VC space. Maybe Uber, Airbnb. You know, Robin, big players will have a great team. A great team, maybe about 15 engineers full time.

Ed Mylett (44:50)

By the way, remember whose son helped you with your golf clubs? Just what I'm saying, I want to know. That sounds good for you and sounds good for the world. It doesn't sound so good if I were in real estate or insurance though. Right. What are your. What's your overall, like 30,000 foot view. Because look, let's be honest, like we also make money from people that are in the sales industry as well. But what would you say to somebody who's sitting there going, oh, oh, you know, what do I do now? I'm in my car right now driving to my sales appointment and am I going to be replaced by a robot?

Jordan Belfort (45:27)

Yeah, yeah. So here's what I would say. I give Google so much credit and so much respect because that's the classic the innovators dilemma, right? In other words, they own the search market. And if you're going to have AI suddenly making general search with ads obsolete or semi obsolete or not, you know, the first thing you want to do, which is true, right. Google would say, well, I'm not going to put AI into my search. They did. And they put, if you notice, they did a very smart thing. That's brilliant. That's a, that's what companies up is, they say I'm holding on, I have to protect what I have. I'm not going to innovate and move forward. I can't make myself obsolete. And then someone else makes them obsolete. Okay, now I will say this right

Ed Mylett (46:16)

there, not interrupt you. That right there. All you entrepreneurs, that's a huge lesson what he just said right there. Don't protect territory trying to remain, you know, protect yourself for being obsolete because that's how you become it. Ask Blockbuster Video when they had a chance to just scoop up Netflix for nine bucks. So just, just stay in there, okay?

Jordan Belfort (46:36)

Frame it differently. If you don't disrupt yourself, someone else will disrupt you. Wow. Say it like that, right? And so yet, yet their search revenue is still booming.

Ed Mylett (46:53)

Yeah, I know.

Jordan Belfort (46:54)

Like, okay, there's always going to be a need for sales people. Always, always. Now do I think things like Legion is going to get commoditized? Yes. But there it certainly are going to be AIs out there selling. It's very, very difficult to do. It is, I am telling you, it is to get an AI to really have a sales conversation. They're not designed for that. And I'll tell you why. Because to be a great salesperson, you need to be in control of the conversation. And the way you get into control is by being perceived as an expert. By being perceived as an expert on the ball shop, enthusiastic people will defer, allow you to control the flow of a conversation which allows you then to ask questions in a certain way, present in a certain way, allows you to take what would otherwise be a chaotic conversation that could go in a million directions and move it down the straight line. That's the straight line system. Right. I just design the opposite. You ask it a question, it gives you an answer, it's reactive.

Ed Mylett (47:59)

Yeah, good point.

Jordan Belfort (48:01)

And to be a great salesperson, you're going to be proactive. So it's very, very difficult to get artificial intelligence to sell well. Really. It requires a massive amount of architecture, prompting, prompt engineering, context, engineering. Right. And, but the point is like we are at this something called the singularity, like where you can't look past the horizon and then horizon and say, I don't know what the is going to happen in five years from now. But what I do know is this. With I would. Nothing is certain, but with great certainty is that a lot of the jobs that we have right now, yeah, they're going to be replaced, but there'll be more jobs created. And I think that there's going to be a shift. I think that's. It's so much easier right now to be an entrepreneur. It is so much easier now to start businesses, to do whatever you want to do cheaply, effectively, efficiently. And you know, AI can be a great mentor, but the problem is they will tell you everything is good, which is really problematic, in other words, when you, if you don't. Collaborating with an AI is an art. I collaborate with, with. I have like multiple AIs and I am on these high, very high level plans. I'm on all these, all these pro level plans and I have APIs into them for unlimited usage. Right. With, with the highest level of intelligence. But if you don't, if you're not an expert yourself, it's going to tell you everything is good, every idea is perfect, blah, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't work out that way. But what it can do is if you know what you're doing, or at least have, if you're careful and you work with it and you learn the art of essentially how do you prompt an AI? How do you actually keep it going in the direction. Right. How do you let it play devil's advocate or even have two. One is one. You say, listen, someone gave me this idea, it's the stupidest idea. Just tell me why this is not good. Why is this the stupidest, dumbest idea I've ever heard? And what idea is creating the idea? If you help you the one saying how bad it is and then you cut start to see the truth because you're only at them telling you how good it is, they'll just tell you, they'll Find statistics, and if they don't exist, they'll make them up. Okay, but the point I'm making is this, to get back to your. Your question is that will some sales people be replaced? Yeah, for sure. And there'll be new sales jobs created that are probably even higher paying and other things like that. So. But, you know, you can't live your life worrying about what's going to happen. You have to sit there and be on the edge of, you know, what's happening and disruption is going to happen.

Ed Mylett (50:24)

All right, speaking of living your life, this has been really tremendous. This will be my last question for you. But to speak just on living life in general, this is more like a broad question. But I want to step back because I want people just to hear from you. There's two ways to live your life. To me, there's the decision to be just average and ordinary and exist, which is what a lot of people settle into doing in their life. And then there's this other decision and a set of actions that go with it for life, which is what you've done. I mean, those of you that are on audio, you can't see this, but the view behind this man is, like, beautiful. He's chosen. Even having been knocked down, even got incarcerated, he's chosen. I want to live an extraordinary life. I want to live greatly. I want to touch my potential, you know, I want to have a great life, rich of memories and friendships and all that. I'm just curious, like, if you'd speak to that. You know what, why choose? Should everybody choose to go? As corny as it sounds, man, like we're two dudes now, halfway through our life, probably, right, that have chosen to pursue our dreams in our life. And what's come with that is a lot of ups and downs, a lot of critics, a lot of crap, a lot of stress, the amount of which most people will never understand, the amount of work, the amount of huge lows and tremendous highs. Sell me on why I should pursue that life. If I'm listening to it today, here's

Jordan Belfort (51:52)

what I would say. Everyone has to have their own vision for their future, what they want. You know, we'll go to one extreme. Mother Teresa, right? Well, what was her. You know, what was. Her currency of value was helping people. She didn't care about money. It didn't matter to her. Money did not truly did. That was not her value. Our values. How many people could I touch and help and soothe and heal? Right? She's rich as any. As, as, as. As Elon musk in her own world right now. You have other people, you know, like you and I. I mean, like. Listen, I will tell you this very simple. I've been a rich man and been extremely happy. I've been rich man and been very unhappy, very miserable. I've been poor and very miserable as well. But never once in my life since I'm an adult have I been poor and happy. It is. It is a real issue. Now, I'm not saying you have to be the richest person in the world, but there's a certain amount of money you need to make if you want to live a great life. If you want to really, you know, enjoy the finer things and really be able to go after your interests and have free time and have good medical care, a nice place to live, take care of your family, your children, donate to the places and the causes that you believe in and just have fun, then there's going to be a certain amount of money you need to make. That number is up to you. It's different for everybody. What I would say is this. You got to get first very clear on what your vision for the future is. Where do you want to be? Where do you see yourself in five years? What life do you want? And then you better make sure that your desire, you have that vision, your standard, your work ethic is congruent with that. If you know you have champagne vision and a beer work ethic, a beer standard, that ain't gonna work out so well. All right. Bottom line, so good.

Ed Mylett (53:47)

This has been such. I'm really glad we did it. This has been like a really great conversation. Thank you, by the way, for doing this today on a Saturday, you guys. Yeah, well, I want to see in person again and take your money on the golf course. You guys, go get straight line sales course, which is his course. He's also got a book called the Wolf of investing, which could help you with the latter part that he just talked about and share this episode. You guys, I bet you this is a side of Jordan not all of you have heard or seen before. And that's what I wanted to accomplish today. It's the side that I've seen and the one that I like. So, Jordan, thanks, brother. It was great.

Jordan Belfort (54:19)

All right.

Ed Mylett (54:20)

God bless you. Max Out.

Jordan Belfort (54:24)

This is the Ed Milan show. Foreign.

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