Positive Thinking: How Changing Your Mindset Can Change Your Life Feat. Garrain Jones

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ed Mylett Show – "Positive Thinking: How Changing Your Mindset Can Change Your Life" Feat. Garrain Jones

Release Date: February 15, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Ed Mylett Show, host Ed Mylett engages in a transformative conversation with Garrain Jones, delving deep into the power of positive thinking and mindset shifts. Drawing from personal experiences and profound insights, Garrain shares his journey of growth, forgiveness, and the intentional cultivation of a positive mental framework to reshape his life. The episode also features impactful contributions from industry leaders Tim Grover and Tom Bilyeu, further enriching the discussion with their perspectives on winning and success.

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1. The Power of Apology and Forgiveness

Garrain Jones opens up about a pivotal step in his personal transformation: the act of apologizing to individuals he had wronged in the past. This initiative was not just about seeking forgiveness but about liberating himself from years of hidden resentment.

• Garrain Jones [03:34]: "I was like, oh, people keep things. They remember how you make them feel."

Garrain compiled a list of 250 names of people he negatively impacted and reached out to apologize, regardless of their responses. This widespread act of forgiveness led to an unexpected influx of positive energy and opportunities in his life.

• Garrain Jones [03:38]: "I wanted to be truly free. Because you can't fight for something that you can only give to yourself, which is internal freedom."

2. Voluntary Discomfort and Personal Growth

Ed Mylett introduces the concept of voluntary discomfort as a catalyst for growth. By intentionally placing oneself in challenging situations, individuals can accelerate their personal and professional development.

• Ed Mylett [02:31]: "Voluntary discomfort, which included some phone calls you made to certain people too. I'm sure was uncomfortable."

Garrain underscores the importance of embracing discomfort to break free from limiting beliefs and behaviors, thereby fostering a conducive environment for growth.

3. Energy Transmutation and Mastery

Garrain discusses the idea of transmuting negative energy into positive actions. By redirecting his inherent energies towards meaningful goals, he was able to overcome past traumas and achieve unprecedented success.

• Garrain Jones [17:02]: "It's a redirection because you can't see the picture while you're in the frame of what really matters to you."

This process of mastery involves consistently focusing on areas of strength and channeling energies into productive endeavors, transforming obstacles into stepping stones.

4. Vulnerability and Leadership

A significant portion of the conversation centers around vulnerability as a cornerstone of effective leadership. Garrain emphasizes that true leaders create environments where others feel safe to express their authentic selves.

• Garrain Jones [07:57]: "There’s an energy that just comes through you, through the presence of vulnerability."

Ed echoes this sentiment, highlighting that leaders who embrace vulnerability foster trust and solidarity within their teams, paving the way for collective success.

5. Connecting with the Inner Child

Garrain shares insights on reconnecting with one's inner child as a means to rediscover lost joys and passions. By rekindling these early interests, individuals can enhance their present-day happiness and fulfillment.

• Garrain Jones [20:44]: "Freedom is connected to the truest essence of your heart."

He illustrates this with the story of a young lady who rediscovered her love for dancing, leading to profound improvements in her personal and professional life.

6. Leveraging Giftedness and Focusing on Strengths

The discussion shifts to the importance of recognizing and leveraging one's unique talents. Garrain advises focusing energy on areas of innate strength rather than wasting effort on weaknesses.

• Ed Mylett [20:44]: "And maybe a little bit of a tip for somebody to figure out if they don't know what maybe their giftedness could potentially what you were just."

By honing in on their giftedness, individuals can maximize their potential and achieve greater success with less exertion.

7. Impact of Positive Mindset on Relationships and Business

Garrain and Ed explore how a positive mindset not only transforms individual lives but also enhances relationships and business endeavors. By fostering a harmonious internal environment, one can attract positive external outcomes.

• Ed Mylett [19:40]: "Your heart's 50,000 times more powerful than your brain."

This harmony between heart and mind leads to increased vibrational frequency, attracting opportunities and creating a magnetic influence in both personal and professional spheres.

8. Insights from Tim Grover and Tom Bilyeu

The episode further deepens with contributions from Tim Grover and Tom Bilyeu, who discuss the relentless pursuit of success and the psychological facets of winning.

• Tim Grover [46:44]: "It is an addiction. And the only place where you can get that high again is the black market. In your mind, it's the only place because you only know where that entrance is."

• Tom Bilyeu [43:07]: "We just can't accept any other way. We just can't."

Their insights highlight the intensity and often isolating nature of high achievement, underscoring the sacrifices and relentless drive required to sustain success.

9. Building a Sustainable Success Mindset

Garrain emphasizes the necessity of planting seeds for future success rather than seeking immediate gratification. By maintaining focus on long-term goals, individuals can ensure sustained growth and achievement.

• Tim Grover [65:11]: "The seeds you plant today are for tomorrow, not for today."

Ed and Garrain also touch upon the importance of self-awareness in business, advocating for leveraging strengths and delegating weaknesses to maximize efficiency and impact.

Conclusion

This episode of The Ed Mylett Show offers a profound exploration of how positive thinking and intentional mindset shifts can revolutionize one's life. Through Garrain Jones's transformative journey of forgiveness, energy transmutation, and vulnerability, listeners gain actionable insights into cultivating a resilient and growth-oriented mindset. Complemented by the compelling perspectives of Tim Grover and Tom Bilyeu, the conversation underscores the intricate balance between ambition, personal well-being, and sustainable success. Ultimately, the episode serves as an inspiring blueprint for anyone seeking to elevate their life by harnessing the power of positive thinking.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Garrain Jones [03:34]: "I was like, oh, people keep things. They remember how you make them feel."

• Ed Mylett [02:31]: "Voluntary discomfort, which included some phone calls you made to certain people too. I'm sure was uncomfortable."

• Garrain Jones [17:02]: "It's a redirection because you can't see the picture while you're in the frame of what really matters to you."

• Garrain Jones [07:57]: "There’s an energy that just comes through you, through the presence of vulnerability."

• Garrain Jones [20:44]: "Freedom is connected to the truest essence of your heart."

• Ed Mylett [20:44]: "And maybe a little bit of a tip for somebody to figure out if they don't know what maybe their giftedness could potentially what you were just."

• Ed Mylett [19:40]: "Your heart's 50,000 times more powerful than your brain."

• Tim Grover [46:44]: "It is an addiction. And the only place where you can get that high again is the black market. In your mind, it's the only place because you only know where that entrance is."

• Tom Bilyeu [43:07]: "We just can't accept any other way. We just can't."

• Tim Grover [65:11]: "The seeds you plant today are for tomorrow, not for today."

These quotes encapsulate the essence of the discussion, highlighting themes of forgiveness, vulnerability, energy focus, and the relentless pursuit of success.

Transcript

[Ed Mylett]

So hey guys, listen. We're all trying to get more productive and the question is, how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you're getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth based environment, that you're much more likely to grow and you're going to grow faster. And that's why I love Growth Day. Growth Day is an app that my friend Brendan Burchard has created that I'm a big fan of. Write this down growthday.com forward/ed. So if you want to be more productive, by the way, he's asked me, I post videos in there every single Monday that gets your day off to the right start. He's got about 5,000, $10,000 worth of courses that are in there that come with the app. Also, some of the top influencers in the world are all posting content in there on a regular basis, like having the avengers of personal development and business in one app. And I'm honored that he asked me to be a part of it as well and contribute on a weekly basis. And I do. So go over there and get signed up. You're going to get a free tuition, free voucher to go to an event with Brendan and myself and a bunch of other influencers as well. So you get a free event out of it also. So go to growthday.com forward slash ed. That's growthday.com ed this episode brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Shifting a little money here, a little there, hoping it all works out well. With the name your price tool from Progressive, you can get a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help find you options with a your budget. Try it [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. This is the Ed Mylett Show. Hey everyone. Welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show. Be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. This man has now reached millions of people with his message and completely changed his life. So, Garon Jones, welcome to the show, my friend.

[Garen Jones]

Thank you for being brave, but brave enough to create a platform like this. So stories like mine have wings you talk about.

[Ed Mylett]

Here's some of the steps that you went through to start to turn your life around. That you weren't doing prior. So I want you to just share some of these things. I'm gonna. Not rapid fire, but, like, I wanna talk about them. Voluntary discomfort, which included some phone calls you made to certain people too. I'm sure was uncomfortable. So just take the bow around that.

[Garen Jones]

Yes. So I didn't know that you can't change what you're not aware of. But I was changing, and I didn't realize that it was rapidly changing my life. So everything I'm about to share with you is as I connect the dots. Looking backwards, I saw the power of apologizing to somebody for something that I did when I was 7 years old that I didn't know that she held. Like, I hit this girl over the head with a backpack when I was seven. And then I messaged her like six years ago. And I was like, hey, kids do the stupidest things. I know you don't remember this, but I just want to say that I'm sorry. She goes, number one, why did you do that? I'm in tears right now. Two, what about me made you do that? Three, the same thing is happening to my kids, and I don't know what to tell them. So that moment right there, I was like, oh, people keep things. They remember how you make them feel.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Garen Jones]

I wrote a list.

[Ed Mylett]

This is crazy.

[Garen Jones]

And I didn't know it was going to turn into as many people from kindergarten up to present date. I wrote A list of 250 names of everyone that I had ever impacted negatively, thought of negatively. Not even in the physical thought. Negative thoughts.

[Ed Mylett]

Wow.

[Garen Jones]

And anybody who had ever hurt me with the intention of apologizing for my part and not expecting them, Whatever their response was, their response, I was clearing myself. I wanted to be truly fee. Because you can't fight for something that you can only give to yourself, which is internal freedom. The person who molested me, people who. Who jumped me. But I held on resentment for 30 years. I was like, I just want to apologize for when we had that fight. I want to apologize for holding resentment towards you for 30 years. They're like, what are you apologizing for? We were the ones who. Who jumped you. And I was like, but I held on to the resentment. That resentment affects me. And so I just want to create the possibility of just having no negativity when I think of you. Instantly. Freedom. So I did that for 250 people up until present day, including forgiving the two men. And I don't know where they are in the world. Forgiving the Two men who murdered my father wholeheartedly, simultaneously. I'm watching all of this business come. I'm like, where are these people coming from? I forgive these two people. Two new people come into my business. I let go of this thing, this new thing. It's almost like this universal order of this magic trick. I do this. And I spoke to my spiritual advisor, Monica Zands. She said, garen, you released hate from your heart. These were all little subtleties of hate. So any level of resentment, and it doesn't matter what they do, the forgiveness is freedom. And letting go of resentment will complete the cycle.

[Tim Grover]

Brother.

[Ed Mylett]

Whoa.

[Garen Jones]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

One of the top things ever said on the show ever, ever, ever.

[Garen Jones]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

Out of a bazillion episodes, I'm convinced. What that is, by the way, is that you're. When you have negative stored energy in your body, either through holding, we come.

[Garen Jones]

Back to that again.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah. When you store it to your point, either something you've done that you want to apologize for, or forgiving someone else for trauma they've caused you, that energy is blocking you.

[Garen Jones]

Yep.

[Ed Mylett]

And when you release that energy, your vibrational frequency increases tremendously. And that's when you begin to magnetize the things into your life that. Because we've all had those moments, you're like, I was thinking of so and so, and then they called me.

[Garen Jones]

Yep.

[Ed Mylett]

That's when you're vibrating at a high frequency. But usually for most people, that is like once a year, deja vu or some fluke thing. But you know this now that you're on the other side of it, when you do begin to live with this type of intention, when you are a vulnerable person, that frequency increases. And it's just unbelievable. Perhaps all these things were already there, but your reticular activating system was blocking you from seeing, feeling, or hearing them. Or perhaps they weren't there, and now you're attracting them. But all I know is they've appeared in my life the last 30 years in ways that are what you would consider to be miraculous. Which now has become habitual.

[Garen Jones]

Yeah, right.

[Ed Mylett]

What was once miraculous is now habitual. And that can happen in everybody's life. Who takes some of the steps that we're talking about today, putting yourself through vulnerability, voluntary discomfort, doing uncomfortable things. But the apologies, the forgiveness, these are real things. The other thing that you say about vulnerability, and I want people to really hear this because there's different aspects we're going to talk about today that hit different people, but you're so right. I've only. I said this 20 years ago. I haven't said it since, so I know you didn't get it from me. It's yours. But causing people to feel safe in your presence is. One of the great keys of being a leader of anything, is that people can feel safe in your great father, great mother, great brother, great sister, great business person. Right. Great coach, great anything. People have a tendency to feel safe in your presence. And you say the pathway to that happening, ironically, is to be what?

[Garen Jones]

Man, there's so much. There is so much to that. That's such a loaded question. But when you accept who you really.

[Ed Mylett]

Are and are willing to share it.

[Garen Jones]

Yeah. And you're willing to share it, and you're willing to create this, it's like a pathway. There's an energy that just comes through you, through the presence of vulnerability.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Garen Jones]

That level of openness. It taps into the voiceless or the. It taps into the voiceless part of you that you haven't yet given a voice. And so this. Because you can't be what you can't see. So the second that you. You talk about something that most people won't talk about and they can. They listen to who they relate to, and then they can relate to it. Then all of a sudden, that part of them that they haven't given a voice goes. I'm not alone. I learned this skill because in the scariest time of my life, where I'm still living in my car, I'm still. I was still $200,000 in debt. I got tired of living a life, trying to put on a mask or pretend to be what everybody else thought I should be. And I say, you know what? And then Rihanna's song we out here Living a lie had came on is, like, out here living a lie. I couldn't get it out of my head. I was like, no more. True freedom is power to possess your own mind and, like, use it in a way that uplifts yourself and other souls.

[Ed Mylett]

Really good.

[Tim Grover]

It's really good.

[Ed Mylett]

He paused. Because I fell out right there. That's really good. Keep going.

[Garen Jones]

I went on Facebook, and the post is on Facebook. Facebook, right now. I say, you think you know me. You have no idea. Here's what you know. You know, this, this, this, and this. You know, I've dated this person. You know, I was in this music video 15 years ago. You know this because this is what I told you. But what it really is, right now, I'm $200,000 in debt. I'm living in my car. I've cheated on Every girlfriend I ever had, as I have no relationship with my family. And I just put it all out. The scariest moment of my life. First message I got was from a stranger. I said, how did you have that kind of strength? When I read your testimony, I put the gun down. I put the gun down. And it was in that moment my purpose was birthed. I said, I know why I'm here. To speak. To be the voice of the voiceless, or the parts of you that you haven't yet given a voice. And I know there's all those people doing all these other things, but when it comes to that deep, dark, treacherous place that people mask and they try to overcompensate and do all these other things, that's my playground.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah. That's so unbelievable. Most people listen to this on audio, so they didn't just see your face, but, like, I watched your face when you said that. It's like there was, like, a spiritual, soulful transformation in those moments. You can see it right now. It's happening again. Right. By the way, thank you for listening to the audio and share the podcast today, but I have to tell you, like, it's all over you now. By the way, just when you think we're getting real foofy here, you're not so foofy. You're pretty hardcore, too, when you're frank with people. So there's this piece and then there's like, hey, Bam. And I was watching some of your content. The other, like, damn. You literally said on something I watched, I don't feel sorry for you if you're broke. I don't feel sorry for people to tell me they have no money. This was interesting to me from everything we just said. I'm taking you all of a drex is how I do this. I want people to see the whole perspective here. And then you said, people that say, hey, I don't feel seen. You said you kind of chuckle and laugh. So there's a part of you that's like, hey. And I think the reason that you do that is, you know now so deeply that people can change, that you're not going to give them their BS ways of getting out of it, right?

[Garen Jones]

Yes.

[Ed Mylett]

But just talk about that for a second because, like, it's one thing to be what we're both talking about, being vulnerable, sharing these parts of our souls, making people feel safe. These are all things that are beautiful for two masculine men to be willing to talk about.

[Garen Jones]

Absolutely.

[Ed Mylett]

Same time, though. Same time. There's this other part he's Like, I don't feel sorry for you. And why is that? Well, I want you to elaborate on it.

[Garen Jones]

Well, I'll tell you this. I'm a big context guy.

[Ed Mylett]

Me, too.

[Garen Jones]

So in the same conversation, my story will always live there. The vulnerability of my story. So. But, Karen, you don't understand. I don't have any money. And I'm like, somebody said to me the other day, oh, no, it's easy for you to talk about that. You. You have this big house, and you have the wife, and you have that. Yeah. I've been saying the same thing. When I was living in my storage unit and sleeping on bubble wrap, sleeping in an abandoned building. Y'all are just now catching up. You know, I've been like, when I was living in my car, you probably had a home. I don't want to assume, by the.

[Ed Mylett]

Way, I have a photo of the storage unit.

[Tim Grover]

Right.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

That he was living in. Just so you all know.

[Garen Jones]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

So I. I have it. Keep going.

[Garen Jones]

So it's difficult. And now I can have empathy and compassion.

[Ed Mylett]

Absolutely.

[Garen Jones]

But I wouldn't just come out if somebody was like, oh, you don't. I wouldn't just laugh in anybody's face.

[Ed Mylett]

Sure.

[Garen Jones]

There's always context and my story that goes with it. So if somebody's saying that, and I'll be like, hey, I experienced the same thing. And you know what I did when I was living in my car? I went to Starbucks every single day, and I wrote down 10 things that I'm good at, 10 things that I absolutely love to do. Found a way to weave that. And then I went on Craigslist, and I found a way to make money every single day. And then finally something hit, and then something else hit. So what you're seeing now is the overflow of what I was doing when I was living in my car. It's almost like God was like, I want to see if you are really serious about what you say you want to do. Okay. Pay me no money, and I will still do it, and I will do it to excellence. And that's what I did. So therefore, when the money does. Coming in now, like, more money is coming in. I'm like, it doesn't surprise me. It makes sense because I put in the work.

[Ed Mylett]

Well, the reason you did, though, and this is important, you make a big. You paint this distinction. You didn't try. Okay. You did this like your life depended on it. You say, there's a big difference between. Listen to everybody really close. If you keep trying things, that is the Lowest possible commitment level is to try. Now, I'm not saying in my book, I literally have a chapter called One more Try. So I believe in trying something again. But behind that, there has to be something in you that has already sort of pre negotiated the price you're going to have to pay so that you're not constantly navigating the price you're paying. Because you talk about trying versus mastery.

[Garen Jones]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

And by the way, I think the money comes in. You're earning the money while you're trying to get good at something, but the money doesn't come in until you've mastered it, typically, or at least increased your capacity to do it. Like in business. I earned most of the money I make now when I was broke years ago. It just comes in now. But I earned it back then when I was making an effort with no reciprocity. I was making an effort when nothing was coming in. In fact, I was making an effort as my life went backwards. So it was earned then. I'm just getting paid now.

[Garen Jones]

So good.

[Ed Mylett]

Right?

[Garen Jones]

And so good, Ed. So good.

[Ed Mylett]

It's just true. And it's, it's. That's the hard part of watching successful people because they behave in a particular way often when they get there. I didn't earn my money now. I earned it back then. And you, you had to make a. You cannot go from living in a damn storage unit, being incarcerated, blowing through a record deal, having a dad that's murdered, having someone try to murder you in your damn life. Right. All these mistakes you've made. And like, I'm gonna give it a go. That couldn't have been what it was. You don't go to where you are by giving it a go. So what's the difference?

[Garen Jones]

I would say the difference is most people don't realize the value of not giving it a go. So I'm gonna try it a time or two, see if it works. Here's what doesn't work. Everything that you've done up until this point where you felt like it didn't work, and then you kept doing that. So what you did is master it not working. So you're actually in mastery any direction you go. So this is why I teach a lot at my retreats on energy transmutation.

[Ed Mylett]

Tell us what that means.

[Garen Jones]

Yeah. Who I was when I was sleeping around with all those women, breaking into cars and everything, that there's an energy behind it. It's not the action, it's the energy behind it that's driving that level of success. That same person is the same person that messaged 900 producers say, get my song on a record, get my song. And then in 30 days I had 28 songs. And then two months later, I had a record deal with Ludacris. It was the same. I just transmuted the energy in a different direction. So you come into mastery when you're doing something over and over and over and over. Like the little kid learning how to walk over and over and, and over and over. And walking is not even our natural state. It's something that we adapt into. So you adapt into mastery. Mastery and excuses, insecurity, devaluing yourself, devaluing people around you. And if you could see that you are actually in, you're actually a mastery esque person. You just need to transmute that energy in a direction where it's moving you forward, not keeping you stuck or keeping you back. So all this is, is a redirection because you can't see the picture while you're in the frame of what really matters to you. Staying in the same spot or moving forward and creating an extraordinary life for yourself and your family. I started caring that my mom was working at a job that was killing her. And then, and she's got these back to back surgeries, colostomy bag, barely alive. I started car that maybe, maybe I can do something about it. I started caring that I could support my daughter's mother and we can come together and create Kylia's college fund. I started caring, you know what? I want my mom. I want to retire my mom. So what would that mean to put this energy into these actions and whatever it takes. By 2015, I will have my daughter's college tuition paid for three years before she graduates high school. And by 2015, I'll be a multimillionaire. This is back when I was living in my car. By 2015, I'm gonna retire my mom. And it all happened. I started caring about the things that actually matter to me and I put all the energy in that direction.

[Ed Mylett]

That's heart power, right?

[Garen Jones]

Yep.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah, you talk a lot about heart power. And I think in life and in business, you win with your heart, not your head. I think you have to have good strategies, right?

[Garen Jones]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

But I'm with your heart. And most people aren't willing to put their heart into it. If you're listening to this, you got to put your whole heart into it. You're going to be in a really blissful, loving, incredible relationship with somebody. You have to have your whole heart in it. Just like you do with your kids. If you're going to build a great business or a great body, you have to have your heart into it. Your heart's 50,000 times more powerful than your brain. The electrical current is. The power of it is now you get your head and your heart in congruency, and you have that now. You're unstoppable. And that's really what you did. But the other thing you did, I'm just watching you, is you took advantage. You are leveraging part of your giftedness, doing what you do now. Right. And I think for a lot of people, you know, that's part of the rub as well, is like, what's my gift? And understanding that you do have two or three gifts that are unique to you. So talk about leveraging your giftedness. Where is it? And then maybe a little bit of a tip for somebody to figure out if they don't know what maybe their giftedness could potentially what you were just.

[Garen Jones]

Talking about that heart power. So the EKGs of the heart is like one of the most powerful frequencies in the world. Most people use more of their head than their heart. Well, if you imagine a little kid just tapping on your knee, going, mom, mom, mom, dad, dad, dad, mom, mom. And that kid never being acknowledged, what do y'all think would happen to the relationship 20 years from now with no acknowledgement? There wouldn't be one. Cause there would be no emotional closure. So the stuff you used to love to do as a kid before you got influenced by the outside world. I'm just talking about the stuff you used to love to do that brought you the most. Freedom is connected to the truest essence of your heart.

[Tim Grover]

Yeah.

[Garen Jones]

So I had a young lady, and I wrapped this up quick. I had a young lady say, oh. She was like, I don't know. I have the husband, I have the job, and I have the money. I just feel like something is missing. I said, what did you used to love to do when you were a kid? She said, I used to love instantly change. I used to love to dance. I was like, how did it make you feel? It's like time stopped. When was the last time you danced? 20 years ago. And I literally said, if you know what that relationship is like, if you ignore your kid for 20 years now imagine your inner child. And every time and every day that goes by, the thing that you used to love to do gets walked over and forgotten. That's the inner child going, mom, mom, mom, dad. So what's missing potentially is the alignment of your spiritual self. And your physical self wanting to come back home. And the what's missing part is me telling her, sign up for a dance class. Don't talk about. Don't think about business. And when you go there, set a powerful intention that I'm gonna take the little girl inside of me dancing. Do it just once, once a week. She does it once a week. Libido comes back.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep.

[Garen Jones]

The relationship with her husband starts thriving. Her business. She had quit that one, got another business. She was like, oh, my God. It's like, well, the universe becomes plastic according to the thoughts that you give the most power. And who she was being was living from the inside out and not the outside in.

[Ed Mylett]

Beautiful.

[Garen Jones]

So that. That's so good that right there. If the entire world could remember at least one thing you did as a kid that brought you the most joy. If you don't remember, ask somebody when you were a little kid, what did I naturally graduate? What color? What toy? What this? What did I gravitate towards? And just spend five minutes once a week with it. Watch what happens in 30 days.

[Ed Mylett]

Okay? I'm gonna give you an example of how brilliant you are. Okay? So one of my. I was thinking recently about one of my, like, happiest friends, like, just loves what he does. Like, listen, there's. There's lots of sources of happiness in life. In fact, you are the source of your happiness. But when you're in the process of doing something, that's your giftedness. You tap into it at a deep level. You're in the process of serving other people. And we've done all the studies now, actually, you get more dopamine in the process than the achievement. When you achieve something, actually, there's a dopamine crash. It's the pursuit. It's the process. Right? It's the actual work. One of my happiest friends did exactly what you've described. And I'll validate your work with this. He's actually a lawyer, and he's in his 50s, and he's just. This dude's just a stud. He's super happy. But here's the story. He had been an entrepreneur till he was 30 and made a lot of money and was miserable. And he said, I just. I got to this achievement, and I didn't get any happier. And he said, you know what I started to think about when I was a little guy, like 5, 10 years old? What did I really like to do? And he goes, you know what's funny? I like to argue. I liked to argue. And he goes, And I was also the dude. If there was a fight on the playground, I'd go protect the small kid because he's a big dude. And he goes. So I started thinking, when I was a kid, what brought me the most joy. I loved to argue, like, kind of debate with people. And even as a young boy, we all have a child like that, right? So some of you have a child like that. And I would protect people. He goes, I think I want to be a lawyer. So this dude, at 30 years old, went back, went to law school, got his law degree, and now has a law practice. And in his 30s, found his giftedness in his go zone by tapping it into his heart. So this isn't all like this esoteric concept stuff. This is real stuff. By the way, maybe that thing isn't what you're going to do for a living. It's going to be your hobby. For me, I love to run when I was a kid, yeah. And I've had some major injuries to my legs playing baseball. It's a long story, but, like, I really can't run like I used to. And so I recently, ironically, got into riding horses. And I'm like, what is it that I love so much about being with these horses? It's that I can run again and they can run faster than me. So it brings me joy. These are all the pathways that when you listen to my show, you guys and I put brilliant people in front of you, and we get into this thing that you and I are doing right now, open your mind up and go around it. You know what I mean? Like, think about all the places that there's applications of what we're discussing here, because when you do, you'll understand the genius of his work. By the way, Garen has a book I didn't mention earlier, called Change youe Mindset, Change youe Life. Lessons of Love, Leadership and Transformation. Been out for a while. I read it. Prepping for this. It's outstanding. I feel like there's another book in you, by the way.

[Garen Jones]

Oh, no, it's coming.

[Ed Mylett]

Okay, good. Because I really believe that there's another one.

[Garen Jones]

It took me five years to write that book because it's called Change youe Mindset, Change youe Life. Every time I kept growing, I kept changing. And my boy Preston was like, garen, if you don't put that book out right now. So that was a younger version of me, and I've evolved so much since then. There's.

[Ed Mylett]

Well, by the way, one thing they should know is you have this Incredible book. And you had a learning disability or something in school, right? So it's like, whatever your excuse is, I want to put somebody in front of you. Everyone is probably going to take it away. Everybody. Yeah, right. Like, you just take away people's excuses, but you also feed their dreams. You feed their spirit. Hey, are you ready to jumpstart your wellness in 2025? I know. It's like, top three of my goals are all somehow related to my wellness. Here's who can help you. Lumen. Did you know that Studies show that 80% of all resolutions are toast by February? You can beat the odds with Lumen and improve your wellness. It gives me insights to create an ideal metabolism for my body. It's helped me, in my case, improve other aspects of my life as well. And Lumen is the key to it. It's a device that helps you measure your metabolism through your breath. And on the app, it'll tell you if you're burning fat or carbs. And it gives you tailored guidance to help you improve your nutrition, workouts, sleep, and even stress management. Take the next step to helping to improve your health. Go to Lumen Me Edmylet to get 20% off your Lumen. That's Lumen. L U m e n me/edmilet for 20% off your purchase. Thank you Lumen, for sponsoring this episode. These statements and products have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition. This is a message from sponsor Intuit TurboTax. Here's the thing. You got to handle your taxes and waiting around and worrying if you're going to get money back or what you owe and then waiting and wondering some more. You don't have to do that anymore. Right now you can get a TurboTax expert who can do your taxes as soon as today. An expert who gives your taxes their individual undivided attention as they work on your return while you get real time updates on their progress so you can focus on your day. Isn't that what you want to be able to do? Have an expert get your taxes done. Figure out whether you're getting any money back and when you're going to get it back and doing it. The sooner the better for everybody. An expert who will find you every possible deduction and file every form, every investment, everything with 100% accuracy so you don't need to worry about it all so you can get the most money back. Guaranteed. No waiting, no wondering, no worries. Now this is taxes get an Expert now on TurboTax.com only available with TurboTax Live. Full service real time updates only. An iOS mobile app. See guarantee [e-mail] guarantees this message is sponsored by Greenlight. As your kids get older, some things about parenting get easier. Not everything though. You know, when my kids were growing up, one of the things I wanted to emphasize for them was budgeting. You know, learning about money. It's really the one thing in school they don't teach us that we need in the real world. And we didn't talk about money enough when I was growing up. So with my kids, I changed that. Man, do I wish Green Light existed when my kids were young. And the fact is, kids really want to know how to manage their money and they won't know how to do it until they're actually in charge of it. So that's where Green Light can help. Green Light's a debit card and money app made for families. Parents can send money to their kids and keep an eye on kids spending and saving. Well, kids and teens learn money skills, building confidence with it and lifelong financial literacy skills. Millions of parents and kids are learning about money on Greenlight. It's easy, it's convenient. It's a great way for parents to raise financially smart kids. So start your risk free Greenlight trial [e-mail] ED that's greenlight.com ED to get started. Greenlight.com ED that was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. Tim Grover, welcome back to the show, brother.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Thank you so much.

[Ed Mylett]

So let's take Kobe and Jordan, the two physically phenomenally gifted dudes, mixed with all the things that you have in the book about winning. Like if you want to think like Kobe Bryant and what Tim Grover did, we're going to read the book, right? If you want to think like MJ and the things that you learned from MJ and then that you took to another level, read the book, right. Did you ever work with a guy? Don't say who. I know you wouldn't, but did you ever work with someone as physically gifted as either one of the two of them that just lacked these things? And so as a result, we don't know who they are.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Numerous.

[Ed Mylett]

Really. As physically gifted?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Even more. More.

[Ed Mylett]

Wow.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Even more. They were by far not my most physically gifted athletes. I work with athletes that Were jumped higher than mj, who ran faster, who had better footwork than Kobe. But they.

[Ed Mylett]

Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant were not the two most physically gifted athletes you've worked with.

[Tom Bilyeu]

No.

[Ed Mylett]

Whoa. Okay. And then. So when you would work with these guys and you'd be pushing them in training, there was a different resistance or fatigue or how was it different?

[Tom Bilyeu]

You know what, Ed? How many times have you had people come up to you and says, I'll do anything to get where you're at.

[Ed Mylett]

Right?

[Tom Bilyeu]

All the time, or, I'll do anything to work for you until you tell them what your definition of anything is? Your definition of anything is different than my definition of anything. I'll have an athlete. It's very simple. When I first start with them, when I was training numerous. So what time's the first workout? I'd say 3:30. I'll be like, okay, 3:30. Am. Am I wouldn't tell them a.m. or p.m. tell them 3:30. Okay. So we're. Myself, my staff, we're sitting at waiting because, you know, winning doesn't sleep. And it doesn't understand why you. Why you do.

[Ed Mylett]

That's awesome.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So then we come back at. We go. They roll in the gym about 3, 3:30. Like, what are you doing here? They're like, you said, 3:30. No, no. I said, you got the wrong time. And I said, when does a new day start? And they look at me and goes, no. I said, no, the new day starts at 12 midnight.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That's a new day. All right. What are you waiting for?

[Ed Mylett]

And even if you tell them, hey, MJ did this, Kobe did this, if they don't have it, they don't have it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

They don't have it.

[Ed Mylett]

Do you think it's a lack of obsession, like you've referenced a couple times, like, sleep at night, your bed doesn't sleep, and all that. One of the things that I'll be honest with, there's a lot in the book that hit me. And you guys go get the book winning Tim Grover. Real simple. Get it anywhere, books are sold. But there's this part of the book, man, it almost made me cry audibly reading it. But I did get water in my eyes, and I'm gonna get water even explaining it to you, where you're talking about being asleep and that you get these visitors that night. And I know those visitors very, very well. I have them, too. It's attached to my obsessions. And I don't think. I don't think the average person who wants to really win understands the extent and degree of obsession required.

[Tom Bilyeu]

They don't.

[Ed Mylett]

So can you elaborate on that, visitors that you get at night?

[Tom Bilyeu]

Everybody thinks obsession is a bad word.

[Tim Grover]

It's.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I love to use the people I. You're a great example, Ed.

[Ed Mylett]

Why.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Why keep going? Look at the house. Not only this house, the other house and the other house and the plane. And if people pay very close attention to what was just said probably about 20 minutes ago, where did you say, I don't consider my. I don't know if I consider myself a winner? That's obsession. That's obsession. And I love to use your plane story as an example. You went from a very nice sized plane to even a bigger plane, but it's still not your 747.

[Ed Mylett]

That's right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's not your 747. All right. That's an obsession. That's a healthy obsession. That's what gets you out of bed. That's what allows you to. When you get out of bed, when all the skeletons are lined up next to you and telling you, you can't do this, you're not able to do this. You're not able to do this. You get up every single morning and you shake their hands and give them a hug and say, yep, what do you got for me tonight, exactly? I got you because you're part of me. You're part of me. And people put some. It's funny. Winners bring all of them wherever they go. And most individuals, the best part of them, the thing that allows them to win, the thing that allows them to be obsessive, the thing that allows them not to care what other people think. The things that allow them to deal with hatred, the things that keep them going when nothing else will, they keep in their closets. The best part of them, they keep in there because they're worried, what are people going to think about me if I let those things out? Don't I always say this? All right, Everyone says, I'm afraid to become that person. You should be more afraid not to become that person. Be afraid not to become that person. You're a big thing about, you know, meet. I want to. At the end of the journey, you know, I want to meet my better half and say, hey, what did you leave behind? Or was like, hey, this is the person.

[Ed Mylett]

Shake hands with them.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Shake hands with them. If you can't become that person, you're never gonna be able to shake that person's hand.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah, I'd much rather I live in more fear of. I live in Way more fear of not becoming that person than I am about not trying to be him big time. But I do have. I wanna stay on this for a minute. I get these visitors at night, too, that you get. So I don't want people to think that winning is all, like, rosy and glory and beautiful.

[Tom Bilyeu]

It's nothing.

[Ed Mylett]

It's really not. And I'm not even. You have to know this. Here's the real. I've never said this on the show. You have to really know these truths so that you can actually decide you still want to win.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Ed Mylett]

Right. Because what does come with becoming this way now at 50, and you're 56 or 56. 56. You look great. I've had 50 years of having these visitors in my life.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And they're not going away, Ed. They're not. That's what everybody wants to do. People just want to sweep them under the rug. They want to keep them in the closet. They don't want to talk about them. That's what makes you successful. That's what makes you. That's what makes you special. That's what makes you different. And what do we say? Different scares people. Winners and winning scares people. And they don't want to win because of that. They're trying to win. They're trying to balance. They're trying to fit in. What do winners do? Very few of them have balance in their life. Maybe after they become successful, they try to balance a little bit more. There is no balance early. They don't care what other people thinks. They're extremely obsessive. They know it. And they don't mind telling you that they're chasing the net win because that's what fuels them. But when people come to you, say, you've had enough, you've had. You know why? Slow down. Slow down, unwind. I don't know about you. I do know about you. I should say that we are at our most uncomfortable when people tell us to unwind. We like to be wound up. That's like a part we have. We have our unique ways of unwinding. We don't need anybody to tell us to unwind.

[Ed Mylett]

My favorite way of unwinding is having some tequila with a buddy of mine who's another winner and talking about doing more winning.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Right.

[Ed Mylett]

I was on Andy's show, and I said, winning is more fun than fun is fun. I remember that, and I just really believe that, like, actually what I like, like. I like the pursuit of winning. I like the. I like. I like that. I sincerely don't Feel that way about myself because I'm scared. If I did. Like, I'm scared of these visitors that I have. Are my fears, my worries, my hopes, my thoughts. My skeletons.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. You know, they take all those forms. They take all those forms, and you don't know what form they're going to take that night. And you know what? They're going to sit at you with the table. They're all. They're not going to. I put this in a book. When you travel, those skeletons are traveling with you on the plane.

[Ed Mylett]

They're my constant companion all the time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And if you notice everyone looks at you and you fly on that plane alone. I have said, ed's never been on that plane alone.

[Ed Mylett]

It's true. It's true.

[Tom Bilyeu]

He's never been on that plane alone.

[Ed Mylett]

They're with me all the time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All the time. And you know what? When they look at his tequila bottles on the thing and they're finished, that's because they're drinking the best stuff.

[Ed Mylett]

Also, I wonder who's drinking all that stuff.

[Tim Grover]

Man.

[Ed Mylett]

Stuff gets expensive. I just love this because this is the realest conversation I've ever had about really winning. And it's the realest book about it. Like. Like, it's. I don't. This isn't one of these Pollyanna things. Like, it's not all rosy. No, there's a lot of it that sucks. And, like, unless you want to sign up. And by the way, I don't know if you really. I'm actually cool. If you don't, like, if you actually said, hey, I don't want all that stuff. I don't want. Want to. I mean, I don't relate to you. I'm not going to hang out with you. You're not my kind of people. But I'd actually admire somebody who says, I won't do these things that are in this book. And I know I'm not going to win. Rather than say, I want to win and do none of the things that are in the book.

[Tom Bilyeu]

The people that can admit it, they've already won. The people that said, this ain't for me. This ain't for me. They know exactly who they are. I'm good.

[Ed Mylett]

Mmm.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I'm good. If you. Most people will settle for good. Most people will settle for. Okay, all right. Very few people will settle for great. Very few people will settle for unstoppable. Very few people will settle for winning. I break things down three different ways. So look at this. And I didn't put this in a book. But I want to share. I want to share this with you. You have individuals that compete. Everybody competes. You know that. You play golf. You love golf.

[Ed Mylett]

Sure.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You know, you go out and your golfing partner, I don't know, what's his real name?

[Ed Mylett]

His real name is Kelly Gwyn. We call him Richard Cabeza. Dick Cabeza is head in Spanish.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I got it.

[Ed Mylett]

Everyone that's wondering what that's his name, because half the people don't know. That's what Richard.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Everybody knows him. He's going to be signing autographs.

[Ed Mylett]

He goes out there. People like, I love you in my line, man. Can I get your. He's had people take pictures with them. It's awesome.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah. So. And I'll get into it a little bit later about that. But there's people that compete, all right? Everybody knows how to compete at something, all right? And for most people, when they compete, they want to get to the. They want to just finish. That's their win. They just want to finish. All right? Now, to me, if you're that level person, is that finish going to lead to another win? It might not be. It might be in something else. If you going to run a marathon, all right, and you're not one of these top elite marathon runners, you're not going to win the marathon.

[Ed Mylett]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You're not going to win, but you have a mindset to say, hey, I'm going to finish this marathon. Now, is that when you finish that marathon? What else is it setting you up for? But there's people that go in there, they're just happy. They're just happy competing. They're just happy finishing. They're just happy to be in the race. Then you have people that win once. They win once.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

And how many individuals do you know? And you probably don't. Well, I shouldn't say this. I said, you know, not associate with. There's a big difference that. Keep telling you about that win over and over again, no matter how long it's been.

[Ed Mylett]

Gosh, factoid. All right, I got it, man. You were quarterback in high school. Yes, I got it. You got your Masters. I got it.

[Tom Bilyeu]

I got it. All right. Then you have individuals that win at winning.

[Ed Mylett]

That's really good.

[Tom Bilyeu]

They win at winning. So they win over and over and over again.

[Ed Mylett]

You think it's. You think it's all it's cracked up to be?

[Tom Bilyeu]

No, but we don't know any other way.

[Ed Mylett]

Best answer of all time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Very similar, everybody. We just. We don't know any other way.

[Ed Mylett]

Best answer of all time.

[Tom Bilyeu]

We just. We can't accept. We can't accept it any other way. We just can't. I wrote a best selling book. I didn't have to do another book. You wrote a best selling book, right. You know, you have another. You have another book coming out. You don't, you don't have to do any of this, but if you didn't, that would be more detrimental to you. You don't know. You don't know any other. You don't know any other way. Yeah, you just. You just don't.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep. You think that. By the way, I'm loving this, just so you know, because I know people that might be listening say, this is a little bit dark. Like, welcome to winning. Like, that's why you see so many people. I watch Nick Saban after he wins these national championships. He's gotten a little bit better at it the last couple years. Have you noticed this? Yeah, just a little bit, like 1% better.

[Tom Bilyeu]

But either his wife or somebody in.

[Ed Mylett]

His family, hey, at least smile for the interview after. Right? We can get back to work tonight. But you watch these prolific winners. So I did love to watch MJ celebrate that win in the evening that he won. Right. Or, you know, the few times I saw Kobe actually celebrate the win. But I know the next day they're back to work. I watch a Saban and like for years he'd win these national championships. And you could already see the grimace on his face for the next year in the post game interview.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Ed Mylett]

Right. And like, I think people look, they go, well, then is he? And I think to your answer, you're right. Like, people say, well, is he really enjoying this? Yes. And he knows no other way. So maybe it's not all. I wonder if you ask, is it all. All it's cracked up to be? I think some people might say no, but it's all I know. And it's better than the alternative of living with losing the rest of my life or not trying.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

Right.

[Tom Bilyeu]

There's a reason it's lonely at the top. And it's not because you want to be surrounded with other individuals. That's not the part people, when they talk about. It's not. It's lonely at the. Lonely at the top. It's alone because nobody understands what's going on in here of what you went after. You've just won what you went through and you're already thinking about the next. You're already thinking about the next and people can't comprehend that. And there's people whispering in Your ear. And they're saying, enjoy it. Enjoy it. By the time they say enjoy it, you did enjoy it. Now you're already thinking, yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

Do you think it's that? I'm just thinking right now, I'm asking you this because you watched this and you've done it in your own life. Like, you've. You. You've had two careers. You've had a career where you helped, which you still do, where you help other people win. And then there became this point in your life where you became. You were individually winning as a speaker, as a coach, as a writer. It's an interesting thing to watch with you. You were the behind the scenes guy, then you weren't the behind the scenes guy. Do you think that it's like a dopamine thing? Like, when they win, like, they're already. They have to get another one, like, immediately. Like, it's an addiction. Do you think winning becomes an addiction?

[Tom Bilyeu]

It is an addiction. And the only place where you can get that high again is the black market. In your mind, it's the only place because you only know where that entrance is. You only know where that hit is. You only know what that drug. You only know what that drug is. And here's the crazy part about it. The next win has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to constantly keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

[Ed Mylett]

So true. It sounds like a sickness when you're listening to this, but I actually think it's beautiful. I actually think you were born to win. And you learn over a lifetime how not to. As a child, don't do this. Sit down, be a good boy. Get in your place, do this. Then the world starts treating you, and I think you move further and further away from your own nature. I think we were born to win. We were born to do something great with our life. I really. I don't know. That's a saying to me. And I feel a sadness when I meet somebody who's accepted a life of not winning. By the way, I'm cool with it. It's okay. I'm not judging you. But as someone who wants to pursue that expression of myself or that I just wonder what I would be like, you know, if I could, what it would be like, what I would be like if I could get to the next level. I'm fascinated with, like, I think the people that I really like, enjoy. They're curious people. Like, I want the next experience. I don't want to live in the previous experience like that Guy was like, hey, you know, I made a million dollars in 2009. And it was like in the mortgage boom or the crash or whatever. I'm not really interested in living in those. In those times.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You're not. Because it's always about what's next. It's always about constantly staying in the rain. It's constantly about changing your mindset. The language of winning for people, that win is completely different than the language of winning from other individuals. You sit here and you talk to people, and they describe. When I talk to all my athletes, I said, describe winning in one word to me. And everybody would think about, you know, they would be like, it's happy. It's, you know, it's euphoric. It's all those things. And it is. But those constant winners, their answers were, it's unpolished, it's uncivilized, it's nasty, it's hard, it's dirty, it's unforgiving. And then Colby comes up and says, it's everything. It's everything. And if you think about it, and very few people are genuine about this, and you know the ones that are, and you know the ones that aren't. How do you feel when somebody's really close to you and they win? It's an unbelievable feeling.

[Ed Mylett]

Unbelievable feeling.

[Tom Bilyeu]

How do you feel when you win? Unbelievable feeling. Even though it's short lived. How do you feel when your kids win? It's unbelievable.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tom Bilyeu]

All right. That feeling is everything.

[Ed Mylett]

It is everything.

[Tom Bilyeu]

That feeling is everything.

[Ed Mylett]

It's amazing. You just said that. I'm reading the book last night and I call my wife about halfway through the book. Because when you read your work, you know, even in the first book, you talk about. In this book, the most controversial part of the first book was the dark side.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yes.

[Ed Mylett]

We talk about it in this book. And then when you're reading this, you're like, this. Winning things mean. This winning things unforgiving. This winning thing doesn't give a shit if you sleep. This winning thing doesn't care. Right? Like, you go through, like, she. This is almost. And I. And if. If you're not careful, guys, you would think, because this is truth, it flies in the face. Everything you always hear. But you would. You would think that it's not something that you really want. And the evidence of it, I said to my wife last, I said, the evidence that you, you know, winning is where you belong, is how happy you are when you see your children doing it. If you have children, when your children win a spelling bee or get straight A's or hit a home run or win a golf tournament or do anything exceptional, the amount of joy you feel and pride when they win. I have a feeling that that's how God feels when he sees one of his children win. And I think this is something we all miss, that it is a grind. It is difficult. But if you ever wonder whether you belong winning and that's the path you should pursue, just ask yourself a question about your children. If you have them or your parents or anybody that you love and care about when they win, how do you feel for them? I literally said this last night.

[Tom Bilyeu]

So I've heard you speak numerous times. And what people don't know about this, like, when we're on the stage together at the same event, I'll stay just.

[Ed Mylett]

To hear you speak. Vice versa, as you know.

[Tom Bilyeu]

You know, I will stay. The last time I heard you speak was at an event and you were talking about a golf tournament. You were with. With your son.

[Ed Mylett]

With Max.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah, with Max.

[Ed Mylett]

It's an intense story. Yeah. It was from playing golf to winning. Yes, that was the decision, like, to your point, like your book. And by the way, I've said this earlier in the interview. Little words from people, a caring statement, a little bit of access to some information. And I've said this many times. Just haven't said it to you, but like, I thank you because, you know, I've had people say, oh, your son gets all your stuff. And yeah, he also has talked to Grover. He's also talked to Grover. And just so you guys know, I really, truly believe that one of the reasons that my son is excelling is you and your information. Little whispers you get, a little direct message, little text message, a little access to a call like you've done for my son. And I think that's the other thing that people don't know. Winners are generous.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Extremely generous. Extra extreme. You know why? Because they're truthful. They tell you how it is. It's not rainbows, it's not unicorns, it's not sprinkles. This is what it takes. This is what it takes. And other people, they don't want to. We talk about the stuff nobody else wants to talk about. Does that make us bad people? In many people's eyes, it does. But it also where the few people that are going to hold you accountable, we're going to tell you the truth. And people are going to say, you know what? Everybody else sugarcoated it. These individuals told me exactly how it is. That's what the book winning is about now. I don't want people to think that it's all this thing. If you read the last chapter of the book, it kind of ties everything in and it explains why winners go through this journey.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Why they go through this journey. Because I have this thing. It's like everyone talks about. It's the journey. It's journey. It's not the destination. Well, to me, why the hell are you taking a journey if you don't know where the hell the destination is? What are you just aimlessly going to be running around? All right, Every time when you get on your plane or you get in your car, you know exactly. You're going from here to here. Now you may have to take a detour to go somewhere else to do whatever you're doing, but you're like, this is where we're going. You had a post a couple of days ago, man, it's nice to own a jet because all of a sudden I got to go wherever. Wherever your destination was.

[Ed Mylett]

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[Garen Jones]

Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it.

[Mauricio Umansky]

To Beth and Steve.

[Ed Mylett]

And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Ed Mylett]

Credit.

[Mauricio Umansky]

4 Galaxy S25 Ultra, the AI companion.

[Ed Mylett]

That does the heavy lifting.

[Mauricio Umansky]

So you can do you get [e-mail].

[Ed Mylett]

Compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.

[Ed Mylett]

Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now onto our next guest. I'm excited because a really good friend of mine's here today. He's also got a new show out on Netflix right now.

[Tim Grover]

What's the name of that show called Buying Beverly Hills.

[Ed Mylett]

Buying Beverly Hills. And so if you have ever watched that show, you recognize that beautiful voice of my friend, Mauricio Yamanski. Welcome, Mo.

[Tim Grover]

Ed. How are you? It's so good to be here with you.

[Ed Mylett]

You used the word and this thinking that you just said is contrarian thinking. Okay? It's contrary to culture. It's contrary to popular opinion. To start, the agency was a contra. You actually have that as part of the work in the book called Be contrarian. Does that mean don't always participate in group think like everybody does it and be constantly innovating? Because you also talk about that in the book too.

[Tim Grover]

I think that's exactly what that means. You know, it's think on you. It's think. You know, don't follow. I remember. You know another thing that my grandfather and my father always used to say to me? They used to say, when everybody's buying, you sell. When everybody's selling, you buy. Interesting, right? Like, that's what a contrarian is.

[Ed Mylett]

I do that, by the way. I am always. I just put a post out about this M.O. the other day. I'm like, when everyone is thinking one way, I try to always think the other. When they're all going one direction, no one makes money in the pack. Nobody gains market share in the pack. Nobody grains a great life in the pack.

[Tim Grover]

I mean, it's like what we're dealing with right now, the First Republic bank, right? Like, is it the time to buy? Right? It's down 85%, right?

[Ed Mylett]

It's a good bank. I mean, I gotta be careful. I'm debating the same thing myself. I'm like, I kind of get what's.

[Tim Grover]

Happening, but man, it's contrarian thinking, right? Like, you're not following everybody, you know, by the way, I'm not telling anybody.

[Ed Mylett]

Here to go buy 100%, not at all. I should amend that good bank thing. It's a bank. I just leave it at that. It's a bank. I don't know.

[Tim Grover]

It's a good banker, right?

[Ed Mylett]

I gotta be really, really careful about that. Do you, do you think, by the way, I'm loving our conversation. It's really cool for me to have like this part of my friend that I see like revealed to me in detail, like the science behind the art. Because, you know, I've always admired the things that you do and how you go about doing them, but now I understand the processes to which you do them. I want to go all the way back for a minute because it's one of my favorite stories in the book because you just said it. I think a lot of people that get into sales don't realize you are self employed, but you have to operate like you own your own business. You have to think like an entrepreneur. A lot of people do this. They have a full time job, they work like 12, 14 hours a day. All of a sudden they get to be an independent contractor, have a job and they think they're on vacation. They work two, three hours a day. I'm like, no. When you do that, you actually have five jobs, you have 11 jobs. It's going to require more work, sheer momentum to get it off the ground. And you kind of caught that entrepreneurial bug you call it in the book Young with this thing with your dad, right. This story. And I think this is illustrative of thinking like an entrepreneur. And it's one of my favorite stories in the entire book because it explains you to me and it explains a lot of your success to me. Me. So tell us that.

[Tim Grover]

Another recession. My father came up to me and he said, you know, Mauricio, it's, you know, it's time to, it's time to either, you know, work or go to school. But you know, I'm not going to pay for you to be a dumbass anymore. And you know, like, just pretend you're going to school. Right? And I literally said to my dad, I go, give me a couple of days and I'll get back to you and you know, let you know what I want to do. And he was supportive of me going to school if I was going to go to school. Right. I just wasn't supportive of me going to school if I was, you know, right. Gonna go to the bars.

[Ed Mylett]

Right, right.

[Tim Grover]

And I, I got back and I said, dad, I'm gonna come work for you. And you know, he just taught me so many things, man. He taught me the value of the penny, right? Like, which is in my book. And you Guys will love that. It's a great story. It really just makes everything so real. And it just teaches, you know, it helps you teach your kids, you know, how to save. It helps you think, teach yourself how to save and how to, you know, understand that value. Because, you know, I always tell everybody there's 100 pennies in a dollar, right? The day you can figure out how to give me 102, I'm in. I'm your partner. Says that in the book, right? So, you know, we go through that whole process, and he teaches me how to fight for cents. Literally. Like, I would. You know, I'd come back and I'd be like, dad, I sold, you know, 100,000 yards for 97 cents. And he'd be like, yeah, go back and get me 99 cents. I'm like, really? Like. And, yeah, you start adding that up and adding that up, and it adds up to a lot of money, right? But then eventually, it's like, you know, you're in sales, you're creating your own momentum, you're creating your own things. You get that entrepreneur bug, you know? And I ended up meeting, you know, somebody that we sold fabric to that was struggling, and I loved their brand. It was 90265. It was a clothing line. The guy was awesome. His name's Bron Roilands. He started the company. Really brilliant guy. He was actually a makeup artist. He used to do all the makeup artists for Justine Bateman and Woody Harrelson. And he, like, had all these amazing people that were his, you know, his people and. But. But, you know, they didn't have credit. It was a startup, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm think sitting there in front of these guys, and I'm thinking to myself, well, these are the fabrics I sell. Like, I have. I've got all of this shit, you know, sitting in my warehouse, right? So now you start thinking as an entrepreneur, and you start taking your salesman job into this next piece, which is like, how do I build a business? Right? And so from there, we built a business, right? And we built something else, you know, so.

[Ed Mylett]

And there's an exit out of it, too, right?

[Tim Grover]

And there. Yeah, yeah, there was an exit, and we sold it. It was not a. It was not a profitable exit. It was more of an exit that got me out, and I paid all my debt and I paid all my people and I walked away with. But, yeah, but it was a great learning lesson.

[Ed Mylett]

Let's talk about your public you for a minute. What has that been like for you to go from a guy who's a guy working every single day to now there's this unprecedented notoriety in your life. Like Kyle's the most well known housewife, I think is probably to say, I.

[Tim Grover]

Would say by far, by far and.

[Ed Mylett]

The most well known franchise. And then obviously that's transcended over and doesn't hurt you in building your brand either. But I wonder what impact that's made on you, your family, your life, the good and the bad of it, what comes with that?

[Tim Grover]

There's both. There's tremendous sacrifices that are made.

[Ed Mylett]

Like what?

[Tim Grover]

You know, and there's obviously the good. Right. The sacrifices are, you know, I mean, is it nice to be able to go in and. And call and get a reservation that, you know, a restaurant that most people can't, you know, get a reservation? Yeah, it's great. You know, but now you walk in and, you know, there's also a thousand cameras on you. Yeah, right.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tim Grover]

And you're in the public eye and people are, you know, talking about you and making stuff up about you and all kinds of different, you know, things. You know, it's like, I mean, having, you know, to me, having that was definitely a sacrifice I made. The privacy of life, just being private, being, you know, I don't know how else to say it. It's like literally just being private.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

[Tim Grover]

It's amazing, right? And so many people want to be publicly known and they want the notoriety and they want the celebrity status and all of those things, but people don't realize what a huge sacrifice comes with that. And it's not necessarily bad. It also brings money.

[Ed Mylett]

Right. The benefits of building a brand, all those other things, benefits.

[Tim Grover]

I have made it very clear and I, you know, if it wasn't for the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, if it wasn't for television, like, I think we would have still grown. I think we'd still have an amazing business. Right. Because, you know, before I ever got on television, I was already the number one agent in California, but there was no way I would have built the business I had as fast as I have without television.

[Ed Mylett]

And you talk about that. So building a network and building a brand, maybe you're not gonna be on the Real Housewives of whatever, but I think business has become not just about who you know anymore, but about who knows you. And that's why social media does matter and why building a brand, for any entrepreneur out there, I believe there's value to do. You agree with that?

[Tim Grover]

100%. And you nailed it. You don't need television to build the brand.

[Ed Mylett]

Right.

[Tim Grover]

Let's be clear. It certainly helps, right? It gets it out there, but not everybody. You. There's not 10 million shows. There's only so many seats out there, as you said. But I've seen amazing brands built with other methodologies.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah. By building social media, by building referral bases. But you talk about that and having a network because you also say in the book, and I just think this is brilliant stuff. This is just stuff people don't do in friendships. One thing I try to do, even with you or other friends of mine, just time the time and just go, hey, man, I'm thinking about you. I love you. You okay? You need anything, right? And there's a principle of this in the book for business, too. I want you to stay on this point, which is to stay in touch, because this is. You're not. Most people in sales or in their career think that they're building for, like, just this year. They don't think that they're building a company. So you're planting seeds often right now that you won't even harvest to get a client or referral three, four, five years from now.

[Tim Grover]

So talk about that 100%. And it's. It's so important. Like, you know, I have approximately 2,000 salespeople that work for me right now, and I get to see the way they act all the time, right? You see the guy that makes the five million dollar sale, they make 100 grand and, you know, they're off to Cabo.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

Boom. Right?

[Mauricio Umansky]

Like, dang it.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

Bye. Yes. Like, where you going? I'm off to Cabo.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tim Grover]

I'm like, dude, you finally made some money, okay?

[Ed Mylett]

Like, momentum going, get it going on.

[Tim Grover]

Like, you know, and then it's like, you know, and then it's, you know, I'll use me, right? As a real concrete situation. You know, I sell the Playboy mansion, you know, $100 million deal, right? Multimillion dollar commission. I'm in the next day in the office, and like, five people come up to me. Five of my salesmen come up to me. They're like, congratulations, but what are you doing here? And I just thinking to myself, where else would I be? Like, you know, they're like, well, why aren't you on vacation? I'm like, cause this deal ends. What's next? I can't re. Bring this deal back, right? Like, it's gone. It's not gonna. So what am I tomorrow? What am I three months from now? What am I, seven months from now? Right. And as soon as that ends, it ends.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

Right.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

And that's what these, that's what people don't understand. So when you're planting those seeds, when you're staying in touch, you're staying in touch for the future?

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

For the next thing?

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

Right.

[Ed Mylett]

Why is it that people don't get this?

[Tim Grover]

Like, it's unbelievable to me.

[Ed Mylett]

This is the big separator. Now we're going into it, guys. This is a big old separator. Here's what I think happens. You actually say it in the book. That's why, like I told you, you said, did you get my book? I said, dude, I read it this weekend. I read your entire book in two days. And I know you, so I know a lot of stories in the book.

[Tim Grover]

Right.

[Ed Mylett]

But it's this good. So I'm like, yes, damn it. Scream this. And one of the things you say is like, don't believe your press clippings. Like, don't believe the hype about you. Here's what happens to most people. They get a little bit of success and then they start believing the crap about them. Like, oh, I can do this whenever I want. Or this. I mean, I actually, this is probably because I don't think you do it the way I do it, but I play a little scared. Like, I don't. You're so confident, but like, it's similar. And I play a little scared. Like when I get a good deal or something good's happened, I've had an exit or, you know, this show's doing really well. I'm like, okay, I gotta do something to keep it going or do it better. I don't go, yay, I'm the greatest podcast host in the world. It'll just grow on its own now. Yeah, but that's what a lot of you must see through your salespeople all the time. Like, they believe the hype or even recognition. I was at your event. I was the speaker at your event. The best thing you do in your culture is how much you love on your people and they have a good time and you recognize them. I do that really well in my companies too. It's a double edged sword sometimes though, because one, you're saying, you're amazing, you're great, and a lot of people are like, yeah, I sure am. I'm gonna celebrate. And they live off last year's production or reward for the next two years. And they wake up, they're like, wow, I can't get A deal. Done. I lost my mojo. Because they believe the hype.

[Tim Grover]

Yep. The seeds you plant today are for tomorrow, not for today. Right. And you're so right, Ed. And, you know, one of the things that I just keep thinking about is, you know, you and I are. Are so similar in different ways.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tim Grover]

Right. Similar and different.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tim Grover]

But, you know, when you and I, you know, when you invited me to play the member guest at, you know, the Madison, and you and I are just these competitive.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tim Grover]

Son of a gun. Right. Like, we didn't win, by the way. We didn't win. That damn ball. That last punch. Just hit the damn golf.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Dang it.

[Ed Mylett]

I'm still pissed anyway. But.

[Garen Jones]

But.

[Tim Grover]

But it was the. You know, and golf is a game of life. We always talk about it. Right. But you and I are in there. We're like, you know, when I'm hitting a bad shot, like, you're, you know, you're. You're making me feel like it's okay to hit the bad shot. And when you're hitting and when you're not, you know, super on, I'm making you feel like, you know, and I'm pumping you up because I know how good you're going to hit that next shot. And you're pumping me up because, you know how I could, you know, and it's that whole thing, right? That's what we have to do with our. With our. With our. With our people.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes, exactly.

[Tim Grover]

That's the. And that is the life that we have to create.

[Ed Mylett]

Are you good at that? Like, making people feel good about themselves, Making them feel that you believe in them, you pour belief into them?

[Tim Grover]

I think I'm pretty good at that. I think that that's one of those things that we can be better and can always continue to work on because, you know, it goes back to time, and it goes back to the balance of time. Like, I could be great at it, but if I don't have time and I don't put the effort. I suck.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah, right. You know, the other thing you're good at doing is. By the way, guys, we're covering a lot of stuff on a short window here. I'm loving this conversation. But you. The other thing you do is you have surrounded yourself with people who are good at the stuff you aren't good at doing.

[Tim Grover]

One of the most important things to do.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah. So talk about that a little bit, because I don't think a lot of entrepreneurs do it. They're like, I'm going to do everything. They micromanage Every single little thing. They deplete their energy doing stuff they're not really that good at and don't have a proclivity for. And then they don't have the energy and juice to go do the things that really move the needle in their business. You are really good at moving the needle in your business because you don't deplete your energy most of the time doing stuff you're not good at or don't enjoy.

[Tim Grover]

I think one of the most important traits that a person can have, a business person, a person in anything thing is being able to really self analyze.

[Ed Mylett]

Yes.

[Tim Grover]

Your strengths and weaknesses and not trick yourself that you have strengths where you have weaknesses and not, you know, because most people, they trick themselves. That's that. I mean, I think that's one of the biggest mistakes I see in people is that they trick themselves. They think they're good, they pretend they're good at something or they think they're good at something that they kind of suck at. Being able to be self analytical and understand your weaknesses is probably the most important thing. Because then you can hire your weaknesses. Yes, right. And I hire to my weaknesses and I also hire what I think is amazing brains that don't necessarily think like me. I don't need another human being next to me that thinks exactly the way I think. So that we could be all day long. Hey bud, aren't we great?

[Ed Mylett]

We're the best.

[Tim Grover]

Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. Red. Yeah, red. Red. You know, like right. I need somebody like. No, I want blue. Like that's not red. And why Right now I need the brain. Why do you want blue? Okay. Now I might be the boss. I might end up picking red. But I want to hear every damn reason you want blue. Okay. And then it's up to me whether I pick it or not. Right? But I want to hear it.

[Ed Mylett]

This is two things we have in common. If I was to say there's a trait that you and I really, really share in common that we do well. By the way, we both have things we don't do very well. But what we do like that, you know, golf sometimes. But. But actually what we both do well is we ended up in our lives becoming self aware enough to know the things we were good at. And we've spent most of our business lives and personal lives playing to those strengths and not. That's why we're relatively young men that have had some real success. Because I haven't wasted a bunch of time trying to get really good at things. I'm just not good at doing. And the other thing that we have in common. You're really good at that, Mo. The other thing we have in common is that I don't have to be right all the time. If someone is smarter than me in a meeting or a decision, I will defer. My ego can get too big, I'm sure, but it's not too big. Doing it right is better than it being my idea in business all the time. And I think you're really, really good at that, too.

[Tim Grover]

And by the way, not being right all the time is potentially even more important in your relationships.

[Ed Mylett]

How do you mean?

[Tim Grover]

Boyfriend, wife, girlfriend. You know, you don't. You know, I see so many friends of mine, and they fight with their wives, they fight with their husbands, they fight with their boyfriend, girlfriend, and they're really fighting just because they need to be right. Right. If you could learn that you just don't always have to be right, you know, it could go a long way in your relationship. Really true.

[Ed Mylett]

I do that with Christiana. A lot of the times. I'll say, hey, listen, I don't need to win. This is not about me winning and you losing or me right and you wrong. Sometimes it's just like, we can even agree to disagree, or I'll just take your idea and we'll go with it a lot of the time. Because life's pretty damn short. The end of your life. You're like, man, I won 11 of 12 fights with my wife.

[Tom Bilyeu]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

There's no. The scoreboard doesn't matter in this stuff at all. Yet we do it, by the way. We do it even in negotiations and deals, too. Yeah, I'm sure you've had that even in escrows where they're going the wrong way. You're like, no, I'm right. Well, it doesn't matter if you're right. What matters is the deal guys gets closed. Right. And you gotta be able to defer when you do it.

[Tim Grover]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

You've had a glimpse into the most successful, financially successful, financially successful people in the world and famous people in the world. Let us in a little bit. Tell us whether or not those people are any happier than, like, say, your mom and dad when you were growing up, or people that you and I both know that don't have financial means or success. Is there a. Do you see any correlation in have. Are they happier? Less happy, more stress?

[Tim Grover]

That is a great question. And, you know, there's no straight up answer to that. You know, everybody's different. I can Tell you that successful people have an easier time. You know, they have the means to be happy. That doesn't make them happy. Right. Your mindset, your life, your way of being, you know, the way you look at life, that makes you happy. Happy. Right. But having the money and having success and having, you know, a beautiful house and ability to jump your plane, all of that stuff, it makes it probably a little easier to set your mindset up. Right. You also probably have the ability, if you have money, to have coaches that can coach you in mindset. They have the ability to have, you know, to hire, you know, people to help you. Right. Where if, if you don't have that, it doesn't make you unhappy, but you just have less means. You have to work harder yourself. By the same token, you have less distractions. So there are a lot of people that can love to go. And by the way, what does that money mean to somebody with a $350,000 job? That could be that. That's money, right?

[Ed Mylett]

Sure.

[Tim Grover]

They don't need to have $10 million. Okay. They can live great on that, have a simple life, have a nice, you know, and be super happy. Surf every morning.

[Ed Mylett]

Yep. Right. You and I have friends that are.

[Tim Grover]

Doing just that and they're super duper happy. Right. So. So to me, the, the, you know, suffering is hard.

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tim Grover]

Right. Yeah. Having a job, you could be happy at any state and you can be unhappy at any stage. I have seen some really miserable billionaires, really miserable billionaires that have absolutely everything and have absolutely nothing going on in their life. Okay. And I have seen some valet parkers that are thrilled to be alive.

[Ed Mylett]

You're right. Yeah. It's interesting today when we're recording this, I just had this show come out with this study that was done at Harlequin Harvard. It's an 85 year long study, dude. And they studied 2,000 young men. A thousand of them were Harvard sophomores from probably pretty privileged backgrounds. Wealth abundance, most of them. And then another thousand of boys from like broken, underprivileged families in Boston poverty. They studied them their entire life, like everything about them. Not just like surveys like in home meetings, brain scans, MRIs, talk with their kids. And there is a correlation to exactly what you just said, which is that there's no correlation between massive wealth and happiness. But there is a correlation. If you can't have your needs met, if you can't meet your needs and pay your bills and eat decently and have a nice place to live and take care of your family in need in emergencies that suffering does cause a lack of happiness, but the massive abundance doesn't necessarily do it. So what you've seen in your laboratory of your life is really true. How about this? Any through lines on financially successful people. Because I've met, it's really hard for me. I'll meet somebody that's like man, what does that guy have in common with that lady who's also wealthy? And I've had a hard time like taking away like what do they have in common? I think what I've seen is there's a level of confidence in their chosen craft that might separate them. But has there been a difference that you've observed in financially abundant people? People a through line with them in personality traits or behaviors they have that help them generate that wealth as opposed to those that don't.

[Tim Grover]

100% and let's throw away the lucky sperm club, right? Let's throw away the inheritance money, right? And let's just talk about the wealthy people that have self made, right. To me there's a couple of characteristic traits that are there that make them that are core traits. Traits competitive needing to win, right? Like that to me is a super, a great trait that is a common trait amongst people. There's one trait that I've seen a lot of wealthy successful people that I happen to think is a bad trait, okay? Greed. And let's just start with those two, right? There's a lot of greedy wealthy people out there and they're greedy because they need a lot of money and they just want money and they want money and they want money. They keep bringing it in, right? But their decisions that they make in life are made from greed. And therefore, you know, the people that work for greedy people are generally not as happy as people that work for competitive people.

[Ed Mylett]

Very true.

[Tim Grover]

Right?

[Ed Mylett]

Yeah.

[Tim Grover]

It could be a huge company, they could be kicking some ass. They could be making all the money in the the world. But all their employees have a terrible culture. They have a terrible, you know, they hate it. Right. Like they're making money but they're not happy people. Right. Or you can work at a company where the culture is, you know, amazing and you know, you're, you're the head guys, you know. So to me those are two traits that you know. And the other trait that makes that seems to be a common trait and you said it and you said it and I have it is fear.

[Ed Mylett]

You do have it too.

[Tim Grover]

We, I definitely have it. I forgot, I meant to go back to that, that fear is a very common trait. The fear of having a house over your head, you know, the fear of being able to provide for your family and your kids. The fear of putting food on the table the next day, the fear, you know, like all of that. Right. And particularly if you've had it and lost it. Yes, Right. You've had the bankruptcy, you've had the whole thing. And then you rebuild again. And then it's like. And when you're an entrepreneur, you put everything at risk because that's what an entrepreneur does. Right. And so there's ups and there's downs and there's that. But that's the commonality that just continues to bring you back. Right. And then hopefully keeping it.

[Ed Mylett]

Okay. That surprises me about you because I'm a very fear driven person. I've leveraged fear all of my life. I mean, I think the way I got wealthy was I didn't. I don't even know that I wanted to be wealthy. I think I was afraid of being poor.

[Tim Grover]

Yeah.

[Ed Mylett]

And then even at this stage, I still leverage fear on myself pretty regularly, but I think you can almost see that on me. I'm a pretty intense, wound up dude a lot of the time. Whereas you, it seems like it's bubble gums and rainbows most of the time when I'm around you because you're so positive. Even this story you tell in the book where you come home and Kyle says, how was your day? And you're like, it was the greatest day of my life. And so there's this mindset of yours. So how do you nuance that duality of staying super positive? Because this, this is really profound stuff that you're saying right here that only really mo. Like, I think the thing I admire about you is there's a level of genius with so much humility that you're unaware of your genius. Like, I actually am not totally sure you know every reason why you've been successful because you have so much humility for a dude with such genius. So how do you know how you nuance? Like living in some fear, leveraging it. But at the same time, you're a really positive, optimistic person.

[Tim Grover]

100%. I'm extremely optimistic, super positive guy. But I can also tell you I had kids very young when I married Kyle and I met Kyle, I already had a five year old daughter and I was 25 years old. I had Alexia at 26, you know, I had Farrah, you know, So I had three kids before I was 20, 30. Okay. And I can tell you that I, I'm. I Definitely have kind of that old world lifestyle where, you know, I'm a man and I need to provide for my family and I need to, you know, like I am the provider. Even though I wanted to make sure, you know, Kyle that made every decision in her life. Right. I never wanted to hold her back if she made money, if she did stuff like that was just extra.

[Ed Mylett]

Right.

[Tim Grover]

Like. Right. You know, but I never wanted to have, have that be her pressure. I needed to be the provider. And so, you know, because I was so young with kids, I definitely, you know, and again, I was, you know, I was borrowing money from my grandfather, from Kyle's mom, from my father, you know, in order to keep a roof over my head. Right. And in order to keep a roof over my kids heads and to give them, you know, a perceived good life so that I can, you know, you know, make them feel confident and all of that stuff. And, and so because of that I developed a fear of losing, which also, despite all the risks I've taken, despite all the things I've done, I can tell you that I've been so conservative on so many investments that I've probably have left a lot of money on the table.

[Ed Mylett]

Me too.

[Tim Grover]

Okay. Because I haven't been willing to take that risk. So I have that fear. Me too. I'm just a positive son of a gun.

[Ed Mylett]

No, by the way. Me too. By the way. I think sometimes guys like us are the ones that remain wealthy though when they get. And I have that risk aversion too. It's so interesting how similar we are on this stuff. Now you said a good life. We don't have that much more time. One of my favorite conversations ever is today because I get to see this side of you that I know, but it's being revealed and then the rest of the world figures out, oh, that's how this dude did this. That's how I could do it. And success leaves clues. And Mo wrote a lot of the clues in this book of how to become successful. This gentleman to my left, just to give you a background, this guy parlayed in 990 sat score into a multi billion dollar company that he built. And we're going to get into your head about how you did that. But I'm overwhelmingly impressed with Impact Theory, which is an organization that he and his wife Lisa started the last few years that is really making a difference in the world just like his company Quest Nutrition did. And so Tom Bilyeu, thank you for being here today, brother.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Thank you for having me, man. I'm so excited to be here. We flipped the script before.

[Ed Mylett]

I've been on his program, and now finally I get you here. Were you, like, this young? So I know you didn't have the best at SAT scores in the world, but I've been around you enough. Now I consider you a freak, which is a. Which is a compliment coming from a guy like me.

[Tim Grover]

No, no, no. I take it as I think you.

[Ed Mylett]

Know what I mean. You're uniquely driven and wired to pursue greatness and to make an impact, no pun intended, in the world at a level that most people have not yet realized they're capable of, even though they are. And so did you know this young? If we went back and looked at this kid who grows up in Washington State, was there already these obvious insights and clues that you were going to turn into this guy? What were you like as a young guy?

[Mauricio Umansky]

There definitely were not clues. So when I was a kid, my. I didn't show any signs of promise to be really fair. And my own mother, when I left for college, like, she. I almost chickened out. And I was like, I don't want to go. I want to just stay home. And she was like, no, no, no. You need to go. You need to go. Pushes me out of the nest. And then literally every day since, she's tried to claw me back. So one day, like, I don't know, three or four years ago, I said to her mom, like, you were the one that kicked me out. Like, I wouldn't have left if you hadn't pushed me, so why did you push me? And she said, with no malice whatsoever, I just always assume you were gonna fail.

[Ed Mylett]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mauricio Umansky]

And now that she had never been, like, always my biggest cheerleader, always rooting for me, telling me I could do it, but quietly, just inside, she was like, you didn't show any drive. So the one thing I will say is I was grandly ambitious. I always said, I'm gonna be rich. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. Always, always. Since the time I was a little kid. But I didn't have the drive to see it through. So I really, really was an empty dreamer when I was a kid. And it was learning to. To hate that in myself, if I'm completely honest, and to not allow myself to be an empty dreamer, to force myself to get the skills to actually execute against it, to not be in any way, shape or form pacified by saying, I'm gonna do something which is actually super dangerous. Most people just thinking about the fantasy of what they're gonna do gives them some partial sense of, oh, I've done it. Whereas I stopped letting that be okay for me, which largely came down to embarrassment I felt around my wife working when I had no job. And that was the time. She was my fiance at the time. But that was when I really started to go, okay, you've made a lot of promises to this woman and you're not on a path to keep any of them.

[Ed Mylett]

Wow, our stories are unbelievable. I did not know that. And our stories are unbelievably paralleled. I was in the same situation, by the way, where I was sort of an entrepreneurial, unemployed guy. Well, she was paying our rent, right. So I relate to that too. How does. I'm just curious. I want to make sure. I just. I think you're one of the great American business stories, and not only because of the wealth that you've accumulated, but because of this. Words overused. But it's so true with you, because of the impact you're making in the world, because of your success. That's what I admire, as you know, that's what I'm trying to do with the Max out program too, and just with my life. So what I don't get is this connection. So just help me understand it because you know that I know your story. I'm fascinated by it. How do you get from a 990 sat into USC?

[Mauricio Umansky]

How I got into USC itself. This, this makes me a little sad. This is one part of the story I wish were a little different. I cheated all through high school. So the one thing that. Yeah, so I graduated in the top 10 of my class. And you were a good cheater. I was a good cheater. And this is one thing I will say. People talk about network and they talk about charisma and all. It's just real. And so I was nice and that got me a long way. I remember in seventh grade. So one of the guys I would later cheat off of in high school becomes my absolute best friend in the universe. But he's on the spectrum, right? The autism spectrum. And in seventh grade he wouldn't talk to anybody. And so I turned around one day and I was very outgoing at that time in my life, which I consider myself now just a dyed in the wool introvert. But at that time, the role in the family that I played was the jokester. So I was used to getting laughs and getting my self esteem from my ability to make people laugh. So I turn around to him in seventh Grade I point at him and I'm like, my mission in this class is to get you to talk. And so inside he was thinking, oh, my God, somebody actually cares. And so then it became like we just started attracting to each other. And he is still, to this day, probably the smartest person I've ever met.

[Ed Mylett]

Wow.

[Mauricio Umansky]

And so it just became this sort of unlikely pairing. But to give you an idea of, like, how weird this kid was, and we're still close to this day. So he talks of himself like this. My mom said if he doesn't start acknowledging me when I say hello to him, he's not allowed to come over anymore. She would literally say straight up to his face, hi. And he would say nothing. It was super weird.

[Tim Grover]

And.

[Mauricio Umansky]

And so I was like, dude, you just gotta say hi back. And so he credits me with teaching him, like, social skills, and I credit him with helping me graduate high school, basically.

[Ed Mylett]

But I always believe graduating high school.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Literally, and I always believed that I could do the work, but that other things were more important to me. So I told myself a total bullshit story, which was that, hey, I could be working and earning these grades, but I'd rather learn how to talk to girls and how to, like, socially engage. It's total bs. I'm well aware of that now. But at the time, it really felt totally justified. And I was like, they're not teaching us things that are gonna help anyway. Nobody can answer why algebra's gonna be useful to me. And so I just felt like that was fine. But when I went to college, day one, I said, okay, I'm gonna be taking on a massive amount of debt. I'm learning the thing that I love. This is what I wanna do with my career, so I better actually know how to do it. So the phrase that I repeated in my head over and over and over was, arf. Sink or swim. I will not cheat. Not even one. It doesn't matter. Either one of those is acceptable. The only thing I care about is that I do every bit of work myself. And so. And I stuck to that. So my grades in college are reflect. And I did better in college than I did in high school, and you didn't.

[Ed Mylett]

Is this true that you went. You were gonna. You want to be a filmmaker?

[Mauricio Umansky]

Yes.

[Ed Mylett]

Right?

[Mauricio Umansky]

Very much.

[Ed Mylett]

But you didn't know that there was a. Between USC film school and usc, dude.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Welcome to growing up in Tacoma. So, first of all, like, nobody really knew how this all worked, so I went to USC because my dad had a friend who made almost an offhanded comment. My dad was like, oh, my son wants to go be a filmmaker. And the guy was like, oh, USC is the best film school in the world. And so my dad comes home and goes, I hear USC is the best film school. So I was like, well, I guess I'm going to usc then. Literally, I. I didn't even think beyond that. It is the only film school that I applied to. I applied to one state school and then to usc, and that was it.

[Ed Mylett]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mauricio Umansky]

And I got into usc and I just thought the way college worked was you tell them what your major is, right? People talk, you declare your major, right? So I thought, cool, I'll go declare my major. And then in the prep. So I've already committed. I've already said I'm going to usc. I've turned down the other offer that I had at this state school. It's done. I'm going to usc, taking the financial aid, packaged, all of it. Then they come to your town and they orient you to, like, what it's going to be like. And they show you pictures and all this stuff, and I'm so excited. And then I don't know if I asked a question or if it just came up and they said something about how to get into the film school. It's a separate application process. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Ed Mylett]

Your heart dropped? What do you mean?

[Mauricio Umansky]

Literally, my heart dropped through the floor. And I was like, oh, God. And so then I was like, what are the requirements? And they said, well, we'd like to see a 1300 on your satisfaction. Was like, what do I do now? And that was the beginning of, like, real panic. So what did you do? So I go to usc and I'm like, somehow I'm gonna figure this out. And you have mandatory counseling. And I go to the counseling, and they look at what I've signed up for. And I've signed up for film classes. Like, I'd already been accepted to the major. They said, tom, listen, right now you're gonna end up spending a fifth year at this school because statistically you are more likely to get into Harvard Law than you are into USC film school. Do not do this. We see people do this every year. Get out of these classes. Take normal general education requirements. And I was like, no, no, I'm going to get in. I'm going to get in. And it's the one time in my life where someone looked me point blank in the face and they said, you are going to fail. Like, it's not A question of, if you are going to fail, you are going to spend a lot of money. And they were doing it from the position of, like, look, I don't want you to waste the money. But they were so aggressive about it. And there was something in them telling me that I couldn't do it. That was like, I'm definitely doing this. And so I found there was a guy that was on the admissions committee who offered, like, you could go join him for lunch. And so I went. He made the offer to, like, a class of 350 people, and I was the only one who showed up. And I was like, how is this possible? So I say to him, look, I got a 990 on my SATs. What do I do? I really want to get into film school. And he said, tom, SAT stands for Scholastic Aptitude Test. It's supposed to tell me how well you'll do on college. You've already missed the freshman class. You're not going to be. You're not going to get accepted then. So you can only get accepted as an incoming junior. But as an incoming junior, I don't care about your SATs because I have two years of college to look at. So we said, if you don't want me to worry about your SATs, just get good grades. So I said, cool, for the next two years, all I'm going to do is get good grades. I didn't date, I didn't party. I didn't drink. I literally didn't leave my dorm room. I worked. I put my head, head down for two years, and I just worked. And I got. If it wasn't a 4.0, it was like a 3.95 or something. It's never that clean. Like, I want my story to be, hey, I learned that if I just put my head down and work my ass off, I can get whatever I want. That is unfortunately not what I learned, because I believed at the time, you're either talented or you're not. So I wasn't in film school to become a filmmaker. I was in film school to learn the technical side. How do you turn on a camera? Where do you put a light? Things like. Like that. But I thought you either have the ability to tell a story or you don't. So I believed myself to be a natural filmmaker. I just believed I had talent. And so I go to film school and everything is proving. So first I gamble, right? And I take all the film prerequisites even though they tell me not to. I get into film school. So that Feeds my ego. Then second, my. So you have two classes that are, like, testing you to see where you're at as a filmmaker. And I smash it. First class. Smash it. And your second class, you have to team up. And basically everybody wants to direct. And anybody that wants to be a cinematographer, that's good. All the directors are fighting for them. And so not only did I get the cinematographer everybody wanted, but I got to direct. And then we killed our film. It was amazing. So now I'm like, I'm the shit, right? Like, literally every egotistical belief that I had about myself being naturally talented, it just happened for me. It's effortless. I'm not even putting that much energy into. I mean, other than the physical production, which is exhausting. But I'm not, like, trying to be more artistic. I'm trying to learn how to turn on cameras and stuff like that. But I'm just a naturally talented filmmaker. So everything in college is leading towards only four people in your class get to direct a senior thesis film. So all the people, everybody else cruise, but four people get to direct. And I was chosen as one of the four. So literally, the narrative. The narrative in my head is I am naturally talented. You either have it or you don't. And I have it, and I'm very grateful that I have it. And then I make my senior thesis film, and it is the most catastrophic, horrific, crash and burn, embarrassing thing I've ever gone through. The class is making fun of me. They're cutting up reels of my film to make a joke out of it. I mean, it was abysmal. And in that moment, I realized the cold, hard truth. And this is. When I tell this story, people think, oh, now he's just being hard on himself or being overconfident. I'm telling you right now, I didn't have talent. And so in that moment, I realized I don't know how to tell a story. So whatever natural talent looks like, I didn't have it. It was so bad, I stole the master from the school.

[Ed Mylett]

No way.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Yes. Because I never wanted it to be seen again. So, like that. Like, this is a really. So that leads into the darkest period of my life.

[Ed Mylett]

Okay?

[Mauricio Umansky]

So I graduate. And you would think, hey, but you work so hard to get in film school. Why isn't that the ringing narrative? And it just wasn't. The ringing narrative was, you thought you were talented. You're a fool. You don't know anything. And I couldn't afford to furnish my apartment, so I was literally laying on the floor of my apartment. I had an air mattress. But I was laying on the floor.

[Ed Mylett]

With a degree from sc with a.

[Mauricio Umansky]

Degree from sc, taking every remedial job that I can get. Because now my ego is so crushed, smashed. I need to be the smartest person in the room. It's like the only thing I have have left. Well, at least I'm naturally smart. So I just put myself in dumber and dumber rooms, which means I'm making less and less money. I'm selling video games retail. At one point, I mean, it was really bad.

[Ed Mylett]

You're putting yourself in dumber and dumber rooms so that you were the smartest person. Got it?

[Mauricio Umansky]

I wouldn't interview for a job unless I knew this person at some point in the interview will say, why are you interviewing for this job? You're better than this.

[Ed Mylett]

It's interesting to me the takeaways you have from experience is because. Because in life it's not the experiences happen to us, it's the meaning we take from them. And it's interesting to me that even you getting into film school, even your takeaways are deeply unique and very self aware.

[Tim Grover]

This is the Ed Milan show.