Balancing a W2 Job and a $20M Side Hustle | Gaurang Gala | EP 52

Summary

Episode Summary: Balancing a W2 Job and a $20M Side Hustle | Gaurang Gala | EP 52

Release Date: December 30, 2024
Podcast: The Entrepreneur DNA
Host: Justin Colby, Bleav
Guest: Gaurang Gala

In Episode 52 of The Entrepreneur DNA, host Justin Colby engages in an enlightening conversation with Gaurang Gala, a remarkable entrepreneur who successfully balances a full-time W2 job with a thriving side hustle that has raised over $20 million and encompasses seven real estate projects. This episode delves deep into the strategies, mindset, and perseverance required to juggle multiple ventures while maintaining stability and growth.

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1. Introduction to Gaurang Gala's Dual Success

Gaurang Gala opens the discussion by dispelling the common myth that maintaining a full-time job and a significant side business are mutually exclusive. Highlighting his journey, Gaurang emphasizes that with dedication and strategic planning, it's entirely feasible to excel in both arenas.

Notable Quote:

Gaurang Gala [02:38]: "If you don't think you can have a W2 job and be an incredible entrepreneur, my guest is going to show you why you are totally wrong."

2. The Foundation: Keeping the W2 Job

Justin underscores the importance of maintaining a steady income during the early stages of business development, especially in fields like real estate where timelines are extensive.

Notable Quote:

Justin [02:01]: "If you don't have that monthly check or money coming in, it's very difficult to transition straight from investing and developing in real estate from your W2 job."

Gaurang echoes this sentiment, sharing his own experience of balancing his role as a banker with his entrepreneurial pursuits.

3. Strategic Time Management and Work Ethic

Both Justin and Gaurang highlight the necessity of disciplined time management. Gaurang outlines his typical day, allocating six to seven hours to his job and another six to seven hours to his side business, demonstrating that long hours are often requisite for substantial success.

Notable Quote:

Justin [02:01]: "With the ability to work remote in this environment, you have the opportunity, if you're willing, to put in 10-12 hours a day, six to seven hours at your job and another six to seven hours in your side business, you can be extremely successful."

4. The Power of Networking and Personal Branding

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the importance of networking and building a trustworthy personal brand. Gaurang emphasizes that success isn't solely about intelligence or extensive resumes, but rather about consistent effort and surrounding oneself with the right people.

Notable Quotes:

Garang Gala [08:19]: "Your network is your net worth."
Justin [08:49]: "You always want to be in a room where you are the poorest person and the dumbest person in the room. If you are the smartest person in the room, you need to get into a better room."

5. Real Estate Development: Focusing on Entitlements and Land Development

Gaurang shares his unique approach to real estate development, focusing primarily on land entitlements and creating infrastructure before construction begins. This strategy allows for significant profit generation without immediate construction, setting his ventures apart from publicly traded builders.

Notable Quote:

Justin [17:57]: "My always philosophy has been to make more money. You have to create velocity of money. The faster your money turns and churns, the more money you can make."

He provides a concrete example from Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, where his strategic entitlements led to a profitable sale without initiating construction.

6. Overcoming Challenges and Learning from Failures

The path to success is rarely smooth, and both Justin and Gaurang candidly discuss the setbacks encountered along the way. Gaurang recounts a critical moment where a rezoning effort nearly failed but was salvaged through persistent grassroots campaigning.

Notable Quote:

Justin [11:07]: "Failure is the first attempt in learning."

7. Fundraising Within the Community

Raising capital is another cornerstone of Gaurang’s success. He initiated his first capital raise of $4.5 million within his South Asian Indian community, leveraging existing relationships and the trust built through his personal brand.

Notable Quote:

Gaurang Gala [15:40]: "Especially when you don't have track record. You know, that's why you have to create that. And it comes from the people that you know in your circle."

8. Future Endeavors: The New American Capital Fund

Looking ahead, Gaurang unveils plans to launch the New American Capital Fund, aiming to raise $20 million to develop and entitle 2,000 homes over the next five years in the Research Triangle area. This initiative seeks to address the significant housing shortage in the United States by facilitating the planning and entitlements necessary for large-scale housing projects.

Notable Quote:

Justin [24:00]: "So what do we have created is the New American Capital Fund. We are currently raising $20 million and our goal is to develop and entitle 2,000 homes in the next five years."

9. Concluding Insights and Encouragement for Entrepreneurs

The episode wraps up with Gaurang offering invaluable advice to aspiring entrepreneurs. He stresses the importance of patience, persistent effort, and the willingness to learn from failures. Justin and Gaurang both reiterate that success in entrepreneurship is a marathon, not a sprint.

Notable Quote:

Gaurang Gala [26:37]: "Everything you're doing right now is going to make sense over the next 60 months, those five years. And I couldn't be a bigger fan of yours and supportive of whatever venture you're going to go down because you're doing it the right way."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Maintain Stability: Keeping a consistent income source is crucial when starting a side business, especially in industries with long development cycles like real estate.

• Effective Time Management: Allocating dedicated hours to both primary and side ventures can lead to substantial success, albeit with significant effort.

• Networking and Branding: Building a robust personal brand and a trustworthy network within your community are essential for fundraising and business growth.

• Strategic Real Estate Development: Focusing on land entitlements and infrastructure can yield high profits without immediate construction, differentiating from traditional builders.

• Embrace Failures: Learning from setbacks is a fundamental part of the entrepreneurial journey, leading to stronger strategies and resilience.

• Future Planning: Establishing funds like the New American Capital Fund can address broader societal needs, such as the housing shortage, while driving business growth.

This episode is a treasure trove for entrepreneurs striving to balance multiple roles and scale their businesses effectively. Gaurang Gala’s insights provide a roadmap for leveraging community trust, strategic planning, and relentless work ethic to achieve extraordinary success.

Transcript

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[Justin]

But you have to understand if you don't have that monthly check or money coming in, it's very difficult to transition straight from investing and developing in real estate from your W2 job. So I tell everyone, always keep that and with the ability to work remote in this environment, you have the opportunity, if you're willing, to put in 1012 hours a day, six to seven hours at your job and another six to seven hours in your side business, you can be extremely successful.

[Garang Gala]

What is up Entrepreneur DNA? This is going to be a fire episode. If you don't think you can have a W2 job and be an incredible entrepreneur, my guest is going to show you improve you. You are totally wrong. This guy has a W2 job full time and his part time hustle has raised well over $20 million and has seven real estate projects. Garang Gala is here.

[Justin]

Justin, thank you for having me on the pod. I'm really excited to be here and yes, I think you can do both. I've taken a book out of the woman who started Spanx. She had a multimillion dollar company and still kept her W2 job till the very end. And I think it can be done today because in order to do development where your timelines are extremely long, you've got to have a source of income coming in. We really talk about all the time about real estate, investing, development and these types of things. But you have to understand if you don't have that monthly check or money coming in, it's very difficult to transition straight from investing and developing in real estate from your W2 job. So I tell everyone, always keep that. And with the ability to work remote in this environment, you have the opportunity, if you're willing to put in 10, 12 hours a day, six to seven hours at your job and another six to seven hours in your side business, you can be extremely successful.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah. You know, you and I met at what I would argue the best real estate mastermind out there. Boardroom Mastermind. Yes. And you impressed me right away because this story, right, this isn't your full time gig. You go out there, there's, you know, we were just talking about private equity and raising capital and a lot of people do that full time. And you've been able to keep a very lucrative job position.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Garang Gala]

And still invest in building a business for yourself, for your future. I want to talk about that because a lot of these listeners at Entrepreneur DNA, they feel like it's a either or, you can't do both. Talk about your story about that.

[Justin]

My current W2 job is in banking where I'm a lender and I look at tax returns and PNLs all day and basically this is one of the great things when I first met Kent, he told me is it's, it is all about the math. If the math can math, then it works.

[Garang Gala]

Yep.

[Justin]

And I look at every deal not as a sticks and bricks guy. I look at it, does it pencil on an Excel spreadsheet. And I look at it in the mind of an underwriter at a bank and on the credit side first. Am I able to get a loan on this development project if I'm doing, let's say, 60 luxury townhome lots like we are in Cary, North Carolina, or am I buying a small business? Whether it's a franchise daycare? By the way, as all the businesses I've looked at, franchise daycares have the highest NOI of any franchise business in the United States. Oh, yeah, I've just thrown that out there. If you could get like a Goddard school franchise those at full capacity, you're making a $700,000 NOI and they run themselves.

[Garang Gala]

That's incredible.

[Justin]

And that is where being a banker, being a lender, it took me a decade of doing that and learning to be able to get into development because I built those relationships. I understood how to read panels and all of that. You don't become a millionaire overnight. You cannot become a developer overnight. You've got to start at the beginning. Whether you want to start in wholesaling, whether it's buying your first investment property, whether it's buying your first small business as an owner, understanding payroll, understanding when, hey, my employees didn't show up, I got to get my ass out of bed at 6am and go open that store. I've got to go clean the bathrooms.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You know, those are all things I learned at a very early age that set me up at 41 years old today to have the ability to even be successful.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah. And so you have raised how much money and how many real estate deals are you currently involved in right now?

[Justin]

We have already raised across our 7 projects for the first 3, a little over $20 million.

[Garang Gala]

Incredible. And you brought up something, you know, my book now is out called Flipping to wealth.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Garang Gala]

And you brought up like, whether it's wholesaling or flipping. But ultimately, what you are already in the middle of is creating this life of wealth. Right. Which are these bigger projects? I call them profit projects. Right. Because 100 when you exit, you profit. Right. It's not income producing. So I say all that to say, you know, being able to. To jump into that space is not the easiest thing in the world. Right. I mean, I think there's a progression here. And you just happen to have a resume that allowed you to kind of understand the nuances of the finances.

[Justin]

Exactly, exactly. But, you know, having those relationships, like, I know every lender in my metro because I am a Lender.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You know, those little things are extremely important. You've got to be in the rooms with the people.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

What do we always say? Your network is your net worth.

[Garang Gala]

That's right. Yeah. I mean, listen, you're here for. Since Tuesday.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Garang Gala]

At another group.

[Justin]

You were at the Family Office Club, Miami Super Summit.

[Garang Gala]

Right. You were here a month ago or two months ago for a very similar thing. I mean, what I want to highlight for everybody is your success isn't because you are the smartest or you have the longest resume of real estate. Your success is you're putting in the work, you're finding the time and you're surrounding yourself with the right people.

[Justin]

Exactly. You always want to be in a room where you are the poorest person and the dumbest person in the room. If you are the smartest person in the room, you need to get into a better room.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

You know, I mean, yesterday I was around like we were just talking about ex NFL, NBA players who have their own fun. There were multiple billionaires on stage yesterday that Richard Wilson had at the Family Office Club event talking about their funds, what they're looking at, whether it's in real estate, private equity and other aspects. Right. And at the end of the day, it is the math. You want to be successful. And what you realize is there are a million different ways to be successful in the United States. That's why again, this is the greatest country in the history of the world. My father, as an immigrant came to the United States in 1989 with $100. His first job was a Pizza Hut Delivery boy making $2.15 an hour. I remember he would pick me up from first grade with a little Pizza Hut pan pizza, you know?

[Garang Gala]

Yeah. I, you know, listen, it's funny because I have this like, I wish everyone had work ethic like that these days. Right. And I just think there's so much entitlement, especially in like middle America, of just like, not middle America, but like the, you know, the populations that really haven't had to work for everything they've ever had. Right. Their, their grandparents or whoever has kind of built it to some extent for them. I wish we still had the work ethic because you have it. Yes, I have it. And entrepreneurs watching this and listening to this wherever they are, they need to understand that one little thing is a, it doesn't happen overnight.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Garang Gala]

Your success in having seven projects and being able to raise $20 million, this wasn't like you did this in a 90 day period, right?

[Justin]

Not at all.

[Garang Gala]

Right. But then I would also.

[Justin]

Years of culmination.

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[Justin]

I mean, I couldn't have done this at 21. I probably could not have done this at 31. It took everything I learned, all the failures along the way.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I do this with my children. What. What did you fail at today?

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Failure is the first attempt in learning.

[Garang Gala]

Mm.

[Justin]

You have to fail. In my first project when we raised our first 4 million when I had gone to Kent four years ago.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

I knew nothing about real estate development. Absolutely nothing. Right. Background in finance, have owned companies, sold companies. Not much I've done in terms of real estate development. And Kent's basically like the math has to. Math. This is what you got to do. You got to take all of these steps, and we put them all together. And I failed at a lot of things. I hired a person who was supposed to help me with my rezoning. She never did what she did. I get a call from one of the council members the day before the vote, and she's saying, you're not going to pass. You need to table it. And I'm like, oh, my God. Why have I not been told this?

[Garang Gala]

Right? Day before, day before. Classic.

[Justin]

So what do I do? I. This is the spring and summer of 2022. I go door to door to every single neighbor and have them sign a petition to agree to my rezoning. And what you realize in the adjoining neighborhood, there's only two or three people that hate development. All the other people want to see more housing.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

And that's what we did. We put in the work. I went in a suit in 90 plus degree weather, in the heat, knocking on doors and talking to them about our project. But little things like that. And what happens on the day we finally have the vote? I have a unanimous approval. Even the mayor of Kerry said, we've never had this happen before where we were unanimously opposed to something.

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[Justin]

Within four months, our hearts were changed by the developer and now we have unanimous approval.

[Garang Gala]

So I have a couple questions. A I want to know what you're doing with your project. But before I get there, I'm I'm on a big my own world. I'm really talking to people about the power of branding. And branding isn't necessarily marketing. Although you, a lot of people kind of get those confused. How did you go raise your first money? How did you and how much did you go raise for that first project?

[Justin]

For that first project, we raised a little over four and a half million.

[Garang Gala]

Okay. From who? And you don't have to get named. But like, where did it come from?

[Justin]

We went through our South Asian Indian community. Right. It's like, did these people my friends, my parents friends, my network.

[Garang Gala]

Okay, so I want to know of entrepreneurs because what everyone listening to this needs to understand is what you did in my argument is the branding side of it. People know what you do.

[Justin]

Exactly.

[Garang Gala]

They trust you because of it. They know what you're going to do and then they know what you're looking for.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Garang Gala]

And your first raise of capital was inherently within what I call your inner circle. That is normal. That's almost how everyone does it.

[Justin]

Correct.

[Garang Gala]

But it's because people have inherent trust in the brand of Gorang.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Garang Gala]

Now it might sound funny when you're like, yeah, but my aunt gave it to me. She's my aunt. But it's still the brand of what you've done. She wouldn't trust you. If you were some idiot still in the club Thursday through Sunday, popping bottles like I was, she wouldn't have given me the money. She knows who you are, what you stand for, what you stand against, what you're trying to do. That's branding. Even if it's your aunt is branding. Being on this podcast is branding. And there's a long tail to this stuff. Raising capital isn't. Hey guys, I'm out here and have this project and I, I need $10 million and everyone just starts to flood. They need to know you, right? And in understanding what you do, your, your resume, your success, where your failures are at. Right. And so I want people to hear that from you because it's not easy. I've raised a lot of money. It's not easy. Raise four and a half million dollars, 100%, you know, and. But it's because of you. It is because of who you are, what they know about you, your resume, what you've done. And that is a brand of goring.

[Justin]

Especially when you don't have track record.

[Garang Gala]

That's right.

[Justin]

You know, that's why you have to create that. And it comes from the people that you know in your circle. What I found though is that my friends and some of your family members that are the closest to you, they remember when you were that 21 year old partying all the time. And so they are less likely to do it. It's probably their friend, the person. That's one person off in that chain of relation that will do it.

[Garang Gala]

There's no doubt. And what I wanted and I know you have a lot of projects that are in the works right now and we want to get to these and what they are, what they actually are going to be done. What are, what are your, what's your exit? What's the idea of your projects? The first project all the way to what you're doing now. What are you doing them for? Is the long term hold? Is it a turn, is it a, you know, build and sell? What is your intention with these projects?

[Justin]

My always philosophy has been to make more money. You have to create velocity of money. The faster your money turns and churns, the more money you can make. And so I am not one of those long term hold and create that type of mailbox money. I look at, let's say there's $100 from raw dirt to a finished building, whether it's a single family home, multifamily, industrial, flex, self storage, whatever it is.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

In that hundred dollars, forty dollars of that money is made when you're acquiring the dirt, entitling the dirt, rezoning the dirt. The other $30 of that is made in site work, infrastructure, utilities, stormwater and all of that. So $70 of the hundred dollars of profit is made on without the building even going vertical. So that is what our focus is on. And there's a lot less people doing that. We've got publicly traded multifamily REITs that are building massive multifamily projects. Right. You've got the same in industrial self storage. I know I'm not going to compete and put out a cheaper or better built product than a publicly traded company, whether It's Lennar Pulte, Dr. Horton on the residential side or Blackstone, Blackrock, Cortland, Trammel, Crow, Mill Creek, all of the multifamily developers. Right. But what am I really good at? My ability is walking into those rooms with the city council members, walking in, meeting with my civil engineers, my designers, creating that public private partnerships with the community and showing them what the opportunity is with this new apartment building, this mixed use development, this luxury condo building, this new subdivision coming to your community. If I can do those things, I've made 70% of the profit and then I can either contribute the land as a joint venture into a deal to go vertical at a higher price. So I'll give you a perfect example of a deal. We have a deal right now in Research Triangle park of North Carolina, Raleigh, Durham, I call it the new Austin, Texas.

[Garang Gala]

Raleigh's great.

[Justin]

Yes. One of the hottest markets in the country. One of three markets in the whole United States where rents are still growing in 2024. Today we have a site, 8 acres that we helped zone to high density residential, up to seven stories, multif family. I have the land currently under contract for $4.6 million. I've had it under contract for about two years now.

[Garang Gala]

Wow.

[Justin]

And we've put.

[Garang Gala]

I can only imagine what that's worth. Or now.

[Justin]

Exactly. So we have a contract with Wood Partners. So Wood Partners is a spin off of Trammel Crow, headquartered in Atlanta. They're a merchant builder, 26 offices across the U.S. our managing director, Caitlin, she has built over a billion dollars in multifamily with Wood Partners and they are acquiring the land from us. Their money has gone hard now. So I can say this.

[Garang Gala]

I was gonna say, is it disclosable or not? Okay.

[Justin]

The money went hard on Monday.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

So we're good.

[Garang Gala]

Someone's buying lunch.

[Justin]

Yes. For eight and a half million dollars.

[Garang Gala]

I love that. Congratulations.

[Justin]

And they're actually paying for the site planning and the civil.

[Garang Gala]

And you haven't gone vertical yet?

[Justin]

No.

[Garang Gala]

All you're doing is creating the infrastructure, the planning.

[Justin]

That's it.

[Garang Gala]

And you got there before they did. You did the hard work for two years.

[Justin]

Exactly.

[Garang Gala]

And you give it to them and say, here, you can take it for eight.

[Justin]

And I'm selling paper lots. I'm not even putting a shovel in the ground. And I'm going to make three and a half million dollars.

[Garang Gala]

I love that. Congratulations. That's phenomenal. So what are we moving forward? We're going to. Going into 2025.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Garang Gala]

What is your plans? What are you looking for? What do you see yourself? You know, full steam ahead.

[Stripe Representative]

Stripe helps many of the world's most influential companies grow their revenue and build a more profitable business. Whether it's Hertz making checkout a smooth ride for their customers, OpenAI answering unprecedented demand, or PGA chipping away at back office inefficiency, Stripe's financial infrastructure platform helps companies achieve ambitious goals. No matter what success looks like for your business, Stripe helps ensure the complexity of financial systems doesn't get in your way.

[Capella University Representative]

Learn [e-mail] Is it time to reimagine your future? The right business skills may make a difference in your career. At Capella University, we offer a relevant education that's designed to focus on what you need to know in the business world. We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals like business management, strategic planning, and effective communication. And you can apply these skills right away. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella Eduardo.

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[Justin]

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[Justin]

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[Garang Gala]

Oh oh, oh oh. Auto parts for 2025.

[Justin]

So let's talk about 5 million home shortage in the United States. As a Percentage like we were talking about the math. The US legally adds 1.5 million people to the US through H1B visas, EB5 visas, student visas, work visas.

[Garang Gala]

A year.

[Justin]

A year. And natural birth death rate. Correct. We had a million to a million and a half people a year every year. And all of those people need housing. We're already five to six million homes short. And the publicly traded builders, what are they good at? Widget in, widget out. They are really good at building a single family home or a townhome. Extremely cheap and fast and efficient. What are they not good at? Land development. Entitlements. Holding the dirt for three years while you're going through rezoning, while you're going through civil engineering with the planning department of that municipality. So what we have created is the New American Capital Fund. We are currently raising $20 million and our goal is to develop and entitle 2,000 homes in the next five years. Let's go to sell to your publicly traded builders from Lennar, Dr. Horton, PT, KB Stanley Martin, MI, Dan Ryan. I mean I can go down so I know every single one of those companies. Director of Land Acquisition for the Carolinas. And our goal right now is just with this $20 million, we want to go to every municipality in the research triangle five county radius and entitled 2000 homes because we want to bring the cost of housing down. It is way too expensive. I bought my first home in 2009. I was three years out of college and it was because I lived at home with my parents for the first two years and I saved up $60,000 to buy 2009.

[Garang Gala]

I was just talking about this on an episode. I bought my first home in 2,600% financing.

[Justin]

Wow.

[Garang Gala]

100% they gave me. I. I didn't deserve a loan. Flat out. I was a statistic like everyone else that like if I had a heartbeat, you got. If I fogged a mirror, you got a loan.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Garang Gala]

100% financing covered all the cost. I think at max. I came to the table with like three grand, about a 500 outage at home. No conventional, because it was two loans.

[Justin]

That is amazing.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah. And so I say that to say everything you're doing right now is going to make sense over the next 60 months, those five years. And I couldn't be a bigger fan of yours and supportive of whatever venture you're going to go down because you're doing it the right way. And again, going back to who you are stands. It means a lot. The reason why raising capital for you is never easy. But the reason why you've had the success you've had is because think about the project you just told me about.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Garang Gala]

You bought it, you entitled it, and flipped it in two years for double. There's not a lot of humans on this planet that can do what you do, bro. So I'm excited. So you need $20 million.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Garang Gala]

You do it for I don't know how many acres that would end up being, but 2,000 more doors.

[Justin]

Yes.

[Garang Gala]

And you're going to go buy land, entitled land, and sell it off to the people that can go actually create the widget, which is the house or the apartments or whatever.

[Justin]

Exactly. And all we're doing is we're creating a facility for these large publicly traded companies to build more.

[Garang Gala]

You're making it easier for them. They're of course going to pay for convenience. I pay for convenience. You do too.

[Justin]

Exactly right. And that's why I really like what I'm doing in North Carolina.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Because it is not as much competition.

[Garang Gala]

Yeah.

[Justin]

Since COVID the number one state of growth in the US Was Florida. Number two was Texas. Both added a million plus people. You know what the number three state was?

[Garang Gala]

North Carolina.

[Justin]

North Carolina. We added over a half a million people.

[Garang Gala]

Charlotte exploded. Charlotte used to be like my favorite, like, investing city because it was just like this almost about to bubble pop. And then it did, and so now it's much. But I love Raleigh. Raleigh has that same trajectory right now. I love that whole state. As an investor, I'm more in the smaller apartment space and single family home space. But guys, go follow gang. Go follow them all over social media. What's your Instagram handle? What's your Facebook? Twitter?

[Justin]

All my handles across all social media. Instagram, Tik Tok, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook. The Grand Gala. T H E G R A N D G A L A at the Grand Gala.

[Garang Gala]

Dude, it's a pleasure.

[Justin]

Thank you, man.

[Garang Gala]

Thank you. Keep doing this because we need the houses, man. So we all got to work together, provide great housing for all these people that we have in the US I really appreciate it.

[Justin]

Thank you for having me.

[Garang Gala]

On course. Guys, if this was interesting and you know, a couple of people that would probably like to talk to Garang or just like this episode in general, make sure you share this with two people at least. We'll see you on the next episode.

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[Justin]

Give your host a gift? Consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing the show this holiday season. It really helps the show grow from.

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