← The Entrepreneur DNA
The Entrepreneur DNA
How Blockchain Will Reshape Real Estate, Mortgages, and Money Forever | Thomas Gaffney
00:43:13
Loading summary
Transcript174 lines
- [00:00]
A
With Venmo Stash a taco in one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back. Nice. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash on your favorite brands when.
- [00:12]
B
You pay with your Venmo debit card.
- [00:13]
A
From takeout to ride shares, entertainment and.
- [00:16]
B
More, pick a bundle with your go.
- [00:17]
A
Tos and start earning cash back at those brands. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash. Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply. Max $100 cash back per month. See terms at Venmo Me Stash Terms Whether it's making fake snow with baking soda and shaving cream or laying tarps down to keep real snow off the sidewalk, there are all kinds of hacks for whatever winner throws at you. Except when it comes to COVID 19 there is no hack. I'm Dr. Simone Wiles, an infectious disease expert, and if you do get sick with the virus, prescription medications exist. If you are high risk, ask your doctor if they're right for you and learn more@pfizerforall.com this message is sponsored by Pfizer.
- [01:02]
B
Some of the best lessons don't come from a classroom. They come from experience on the Power of Advice, a new podcast series from Capital Group. You'll hear from CEOs, investors and founders about how they built careers, took risks, and reinvented themselves.
- [01:19]
A
If you're starting your own journey, this.
- [01:21]
B
Is the kind of advice you won't want to miss.
- [01:24]
A
Available wherever you get your podcasts Published.
- [01:27]
B
By Capital Client Group Inc. What is up the Entrepreneur DNA Family if you are into blockchain and cryptocurrencies and understanding the revolution that is upon us, then you are not going to want to miss this episode. Thomas Gaffney is the COO of OFA Group and he is quite literally on the front line of revolutionizing how we tokenize real world assets such as, as an example, my favorite Real estate Today we're going to talk about all things about this tokenization of the frontline assets. Thomas Gaffney is here. What's up buddy?
- [02:06]
A
Hey man, how you going? Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.
- [02:09]
B
Yeah, this is going to be fun. So I'm I'm a big real estate guy. I've done this for over two decades, or about two decades now. The first thing I want to jump into, Adam immediately is what we were already talking about, like all offline, if you will.
- [02:22]
A
Okay.
- [02:22]
B
This whole thing about like real estate and how you know you're going to be able to transact real estate with, you know, cryptocurrency and blockchains. And how did, like, what is going on? You are literally on the front line. As someone who buys and sells houses every day, I am not seeing any movement in the subject matter. I'm not seeing, you know, anything change functionally as a moment in time on the front lines. That does not mean there's not big waves happening. What are you seeing on the front line of all this?
- [02:49]
A
Uh, I'm seeing a huge explosion in growth. Interesting. Over the last three years, the on chain RWA market, not including stablecoins, has grown almost 400%. Uh, it was at $4 billion in 2022, and now it's up to about 300, not $330 billion. And you've got Citigroup, many of these big banks projecting in the next five years that this market's going to be over $5 trillion.
- [03:19]
B
So right now you said 30 billion to go to 5 trillion.
- [03:22]
A
Yes. They think it's going to 100x. That's how fast it's going to move.
- [03:27]
B
I want everyone to understand what the difference between 1 billion and 1 trillion is. Like there's a. You guys can Google this, but like if you actually had to do a multiple of what the difference is between a billion days and a trillion days, or any type of multiple, it is such a vastly different number. It is almost incomprehensible. Like, there's a fun little thing you could do that it would take however many years to get to a trillion, you know, and then it would take however many days. Like it goes from seconds to minutes to hours to days to months to years. And then they talk about with for a billion and a trillion, all those type of things.
- [04:07]
A
Yeah.
- [04:08]
B
Anyways, to go to 30 billion, which is a big number, there's no doubt to 5 trillion is gargantuan.
- [04:14]
A
Yes. And a good way. I, I saw it for Elon, for 500 billion. Right. Elon could potentially spend $10 million a day since the building of the pyramids. And you still today would not. He would only spend like 8, like $10 billion.
- [04:32]
B
Right. That's what I'm saying. So there's fun little things you can Google to understand how big that number really is.
- [04:38]
A
Truly true. Yeah, it's.
- [04:40]
B
It's insane. So talk like, you know, and I'll keep the real estate and then we can move on to other sectors and other, you know, real world assets, like in the real estate space. What are some things that are going on that maybe the day to day consumer of real estate. I buy and flip homes, I buy and rent homes. Like I'm transactionally in this space really heavily. What is going on that I'm not aware of that's actually starting to move the needle.
- [05:02]
A
Sure, sure. So let me give you just a little bit of background, right? So I became obsessed with this concept, right? Remember the, how it impacts like everyday consumers. Remember the obviously 2008 crisis, right, where you have these mortgage backed securities and during that time they had these things, they were kind of structuring them, putting it into different vehicles and they were called like basically CDOs, credit default swaps. And they like these mortgages were failing, right? They were coming across, they were failing and they were in these instruments and so no one really knew what was in this instrument, right? So the entire market was shorting them across the board, right? Where you can have one CDO that's worth say 97% of them are functioning well. And then you have, so you have ABC. A has 97%, the people are paying the mortgage, B 50% people are paying their mortgage. This CDO sucks. And you've got like 85% over here on C, right? There was no way back then because of like the counterparty risk to really tell what was in those things and who was paying and what wasn't. So they shorted the entire market and just destroyed the entire mortgage.
- [06:19]
B
They shorted, even the 90% paying and the 85% paying, they shorted it all.
- [06:23]
A
Exactly. So what's going on now, right, Is, and it's kind of in the background, like most people won't really see it day to day what's going on, right? They'll still apply for a mortgage, they'll still potentially go to a bank and get it logged in, right? And so, and they'll be making their payments. But what's going to be happening in the future is that, and what's currently happening now is people are putting these mortgages on chain, right? And so instead of it just being at a bank and centralized and having to go through filing cabinets and find things within like the centralized computer system, right? They are now putting it onto a decentralized ledger really that's really all blockchain, is it's just like a recording system that's kind of immutable, that you can't change, can't hack into it and it's open and it's incredibly easy to find information. Right? So if all mortgages were put on chain during the 2008 crisis, you would have had real time information to know that that one CDO had a 95, 97% continuing payments. Right.
- [07:24]
B
So you're not going to short, you wouldn't short that. Right, exactly.
- [07:27]
A
So like you'd be able to see it in real time. Right. And so how this kind of works, are you familiar with stable coins or anything by any chance?
- [07:35]
B
I am, yeah. But I think just for the open listener, maybe do a just under brief understanding for those that may not be sure.
- [07:42]
A
So a stable coin is essentially a, say, let's say usdc. Right. United States dollar coin is a token that exists on a blockchain that is backed, that represents $1. So every time you have a $1 token of the USDC stablecoin, you have a dollar worth of spending. It's supposed to be parity with the US dollar. And essentially they are backed dollar by $4 dollar. Every dollar that goes into USDC is backed by usually treasuries, US treasuries. Right. Short term bonds, whatever it is, and they keep that dollar just on chain, stable at a dollar. So it's one for one parity. Right. And so you can transact these stable coins as dollars on chain, send them across border, whatever you need to do. Buy Bitcoin, buy Ethereum, send it to your Coinbase account, to your friend and then they can take it out and exchange it for Fiat for, for $1. Right. And so what's happening now is that your mortgage is going to be on chain. Right. And then you can pay in usdc. And what happens when you do that? When you pay your mortgage every month, it records that transaction on the ledger via the smart contract, which is the rwa. Right. And then it will update in real time that your status is up to date and it's kind of uniform, it's out there and it's just a way more efficient way of tracking these things. Especially when you start thinking about bundling together and securitizing them like they were doing like mortgage backed securities in the 2008 crisis.
- [09:30]
B
Yeah, the, the insight I think is the big thing here is so much easier to read and understand relative. Right now I'm not behind the curtain in those instances, but that's my understanding of the whole thing is to really simplify or not just simplify, but really make it a lot easier. Again simplified to see and read what is actually going on.
- [09:54]
A
Yeah.
- [09:54]
B
So there isn't any of this further confusion, right?
- [09:57]
A
Yes, exactly. And that's the whole thing. And like humans won't be necessarily doing it's going to be a lot of AI automatic algorithms, trading everything, fixing it all. But they'll be able to see like the snapshot and be like, oh, this instrument that has a ,thousand mortgages in 999 of them are up to date, whereas this instrument has a ousand and only 400 of them are up to date. Okay, short this one, keep this one alive. Yeah, one goes down, but the other one stays up. Right. And so it's going to like, because you can trade these things on the market and they would have the accurate pricing real time in terms of like trading it, say on the NASDAQ or New York Stock Exchange, whatever it was back then. But, but they didn't have, and this is what's important, the underlying like proof and the underlying like information of the underlying asset. Right. Like the mortgage, they didn't that actual information. Right. Like they just had like the value of what it was trading and in theory the yield they were supposed to get based on the value that they have. Right, right. So, but now that's going to be updated real time. And so that's kind of what we're building out actually with Hearth Labs is we have like an AI tool that is going to be tracking all of the, it does the KYC process, it does the records for payment, how much money's coming in, how much money's going out, risk at default. It like analyzes all of that information to give real time data to the market for the instrument so that the price can be adjusted accordingly.
- [11:43]
B
As a real estate investor, one of the most challenging hurdles you'll face is figuring out how to fund your first project and then how to keep that money rolling in for all the projects that follow through while holding on to as much of your profit as you can. This is a challenge that today's sponsor fund n grow knows all too well. But they've built a strategy that has helped tens of thousands of real estate investors access 0% interest business credit for the first, third, tenth and even hundredth deal. As you know, I don't recommend anyone uses their own cash to invest in real estate, especially when there are so many financial tools available like business credit cards. And today's sponsor fund and Grow will will tell you the exact same thing because they've helped tens of thousands of real estate investors access these 0% interest business credit cards for the first, third, tenth or even hundredth deal of their own. Funding to Grow has been in helping real estate investors and business owners access funding since 2007. Their unique done with you credit coaching process is a great program for all those in the real estate space. Their team walks you through the entire process of building and leveraging business credit, helping you apply to high limit business credit cards at 0% interest and teaching you how to use those cards for expenses that typically don't accept credit cards like real estate deals, renovations, marketings or vendor payments. You stay in control of the account, there are no outrageous fees and and you get expert coaching to help you put that credit to work in smart strategic ways. Want to know how much you might qualify for? Just head over to www.fundandgrow.com flipping pq that is www.fundinggrow.com flipping pq the free pre qualification takes less than two minutes and again, that is www.fundandgrow.com FlippingPQ. Franchises are five times more likely to succeed in the first five years than traditional startups. But finding a franchise ownership opportunity can be overwhelming with over 4000 brands to choose from and brokers with misaligned incentives. That's why my friend Alex Smirnick, co founder and former CEO of 2U Laundry, built Franzi. Whether you're interested in fitness, home services, automotive or food, Franzi make it simple to find your perfect match when you visit Franzi.com and answer a few simple questions about your goals, lifestyle and budget and get access to hundreds of personalized opportunities plus free top of the line coaching that will never cost you a dime. Franzi is completely free to use from start to finish. You'll never have to pay them. If you're ready to take the next step towards franchise ownership, visit Franzi.com that is F R-A-N-Z-Y.com to get started today.
- [15:03]
A
New Year New Gear Thousands of fresh active styles are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Save on top brands like Nike, Punk, Puma and free people starting at just $35. How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Because there's always something new. Plus join the Nordy Club to shop new arrivals first. Unlock exclusive discounts and more great brands great prices. That's why you rack.
- [15:30]
B
Lowe's knows how to turn big plans into real results whether it's new appliances.
- [15:35]
A
Or a home refresh.
- [15:36]
B
Get started with 12 month special finance.
- [15:39]
A
Financing on purchases of 299 or more.
- [15:41]
B
With a Milo's Rewards credit card January 15th through the 30th so you can.
- [15:46]
A
Invest in your upgrade now and pay over time.
- [15:50]
B
Lowe's we help you save offer subject to credit approval and cannot be combined. Minimum monthly payment required. See store lowe's.com for details. So when talking to the normal Joe. Yeah. Rephrase that. Right. I think that's so much in your day to day life that like if so like how does that affect the normal person?
- [16:11]
A
Sure.
- [16:12]
B
And maybe it doesn't. Maybe this is really meant for New York and the big banks and understanding how to package loans and you know, and that's okay. But, but people need to understand how this is actually going to affect them. I think the big, in my opinion.
- [16:25]
A
Sure.
- [16:26]
B
I, I, you know, have a platform of great entrepreneurs like yourself that I get to interview. I think the biggest misconception about all this is how it actually affects them, the people. Right. The hu. Like the small. It doesn't matter entrepreneur or not. But like how does this, any of this affect people? Like how would what you just said, and I understand what you're saying, basically what instrument would they use based around the clarity of understanding the asset.
- [16:51]
A
Right.
- [16:52]
B
To be able to securitize it. But how does that affect a person like a normal Joe on the street?
- [16:59]
A
Sure. Well, what it does is so it's kind of two ways because you won't necessarily see it directly if you're just a average Joe. Just whatever, you'll still go to the bank, you will still get a mortgage. And the one way it can really affect you is you can either decide to pay with it on chain. So this affects a lot of people who actually want to use crypto or very into crypto, want to use stable coins rather than the fiat US dollar or something. They can actually pay their mortgage with usdc, they convert it into Bitcoin, pay it, be good to go. Right. But like the average Joe who wants to just go and pay it on the bank, they say they pay with fiat and then the bank updates the ledger and then the ledger is done. So you won't see that that much because that process is kind of churned out and kind of works. Where you will see it is that money, your money and your mortgage is going to be safer. You know, party risk. Like a lot of people my age don't really remember 2008 too much because we weren't really in the market at the time, you know, and. But it was a really bad time, you know.
- [18:06]
B
Oh yeah.
- [18:07]
A
Your homes become crushed. Yeah. You know, the markets got destroyed and so that likely the counterparty risk, meaning the amount of vendors involved. Right. So you've got a bank, you've got a originator, you've got a, a lender, you've Got someone you're selling, once you package that up, you're selling it to a bank and then they're selling it to people, right. Like this chain of like say 10 to 15, 20 people that used to exist to make, to start a mortgage, make it happen and get it all the way to securitizing it and selling it in shares. Right. Like the amount of the systematic risk is going to be significantly reduced.
- [18:48]
B
Well, so that's good.
- [18:49]
A
This won't necessarily happen again. And I think it would be over time. It's going to make it, I think, easier to get a mortgage. I think it's going to be easier to. You're going to have to go through less of this crazy vigorous due diligence that you have to now because they're protecting against the. What happened in 2008, just as once it goes down the line, a lot of the issue wasn't necessarily the person buying, borrowing the money. It was them selling them, like pulling them all together, selling them and then shorting them. And then the banks that were backing them made them collapse because they didn't know accurately what was in it.
- [19:31]
B
So that's right.
- [19:32]
A
Risk of doing this is significantly less and hopefully because like I said, you have real time data of what's going on. Like instead of the entire market crashing because of a artificial short on the entire market, you're only going to be shorting certain ones that are failing. Right. And so where you'll see it is it's going to be a lot safer to own a home. It's going to be a lot safer to have a mortgage in the future. Just because the information that's going to be relatively available and in real time update is going to be safer on that back end.
- [20:10]
B
What there you said something that I think really has some interest on my behalf. So everyone's aware bitcoin over a hundred grand is big thing, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you were just saying essentially you'd be able to pay your mortgage through.
- [20:25]
A
Bitcoin if you want to. Yeah.
- [20:29]
B
It almost makes banking like unneeded.
- [20:36]
A
Yes.
- [20:36]
B
And listen, bitcoin has risk to it, right? I mean whatever it was this week last like it went from $112,000 for Bitcoin down to 90. Like. Okay, right, like it moves. But it is probably the stablest of coins relative to usdc. You can make an argument for the person that has a little bit of risk tolerance, like put all your cash in bitcoin moving forward because you'll be able to pay your mortgage through bitcoin. And bitcoin goes to a million dollars, which there's a lot of experts that say that that is a very.
- [21:08]
A
I think it's a reality for sure.
- [21:09]
B
Not only are you paying your mortgage, but your money that's waiting to pay your mortgage is making money as it sits there.
- [21:18]
A
Exactly, exactly.
- [21:20]
B
Am I like, I'm, I'm just sitting back listening to you. I'm like, well, then why wouldn't I put all my money in a bitcoin? It seems crazy, but, like, functionally, if I can pay my mortgage through it, and you're talking, and we're just talking about real estate, I'm assuming I could be wrong, would I be able to pay my car note through the same way? Yeah, essentially banking, right? Essentially, it's all banking. And so when the, when you and your company is able to really get this solidified and the blockchain now is functional to pay loans.
- [21:49]
A
Yep, that's exactly what it's going to.
- [21:52]
B
I could go pay Chase for my car loan that I have.
- [21:55]
A
Yes, 100%. And that's. Honestly, that's what's going to happen. And the reason, and that's the reason why for that big trillion five to $10 trillion number. Right. Is because, like, it just makes logical sense. Like, remove the bitcoin. Right. Like, if you just remove the bitcoin and you think about blockchain technology in general, okay, Stablecoins, you like, blockchain technology just makes recording information significantly more efficient. Significantly more. More safe and, and more clear. Yes, more clear.
- [22:33]
B
And again, you're going to read it and understand what it, what's going on with it.
- [22:36]
A
Exactly. You know, and so it's. I, I honestly think in the future every single thing is going to be on chain. Every single thing. Because it's just, it's, it's a more efficient system. Right. Humans are always going towards evolution. They're always making it better. They're always making efficiency. Right. And blockchain is a more efficient system. Right. So now bring back in bitcoin. Right. And what you were talking about, the fun cool stuff, it's like bitcoin, how I see it, is a massive store of value. And so what that means is you can put your money into it and it will stay relatively safe depending on your risk tolerance. Me, I was around bitcoin back when it was having 90% swings in a week, you know.
- [23:21]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. I mean, when I started, and I'm not a good investor for this, but, like, I started when it was 1800 bucks.
- [23:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.
- [23:28]
B
Right? And so. Which is cool. And I took a risk. But of course, you know, as it started growing, you're like, how high could it go? So you start to sell, right? And you're like, oh God, I could have. Anyways.
- [23:39]
A
Absolutely. No, I completely agree. Right. So it's like bitcoin is digital gold in essence, right? Like you have gold, which is a scarce resource, right. You have bitcoin, which is a scarce resource source because the amount of bitcoins are capped. There's only going to be a certain amount ever. Right. And, and the technology behind it, which is blockchain, is just, it's one of the most, in my opinion, like revolutionary pieces of technology since the Internet. You know, just because it's so cryptographically secure, you can't, you can't hack it. You can hack into an exchange, which is like, you can have an email and password and they can steal information that way, but you cannot hack an actual blockchain. Right. Like the difficulty would be going to McDonald's, getting a chicken nugget and trying to turn that chicken nugget back into a chicken. Like that is how difficult it is to hack an actual blockchain. Right. And so this scarce resource and people are like, oh, why does bitcoin have value? It's like, because it's a scarce resource. The technology is amazing and people put value into it. Why does gold have value? Yes, you can wear jewelry, whatever, but 99% of all gold is in gold bars and Mountain Knox and other countries. They're holding on to it. Like, they're just holding on to it because they put value in gold, right?
- [24:59]
B
They keep it scarce.
- [25:00]
A
Yes. And they keep it scarce. And that's the same thing with bitcoin, you know.
- [25:04]
B
Well, so the interesting. So what you just said is why I asked the questions I'm asking. I think the normal Joe doesn't see value in bitcoin because they can't touch it, feel it, see it. They don't understand the blockchain chain technology it sits on, Right?
- [25:16]
A
Yes.
- [25:16]
B
So they don't know, you know, how it's going to affect title and real estate. And I want to get to other real world assets that you guys are moving the needle on. But like, because it's not there yet. So the, the tangibility and understanding of like, why is there. Why is this thing worth a hundred thousand dollars? Right?
- [25:34]
A
Yes.
- [25:35]
B
Because they don't feel it yet.
- [25:36]
A
Yeah.
- [25:37]
B
In the day to day life.
- [25:38]
A
And it's the technology and so where they'll really see it, though, is like, and this is the theory that I have is that so blockchain, we have this AI revolution right now, right? Like, everything is AI chat, all these LLMs, right? And so AI and blockchain, and this is why it's important is AI is digital. It lives on a computer. You can't feel AI, you can't touch AI. You can touch a robot that uses AI, right? But like AI that you interact with on your computer, it's just on the computer, right? And so the AI is developing so that it's starting to do tasks for the everyday person, right? They're called AI agents, right? Where they can get you dinner reservations, they can buy plane tickets, they can do whatever, right? And so AI lives on the Internet, lives in computers. So does blockchain. And blockchain is like kind of the foundational piece, in my opinion, for what's going to slowly come around for AI and building super intelligence, Right? Because right now anyone can go change information on Wikipedia and AI will go pull in information whether it's correct or not. But it's on Wikipedia, right? And spit it out as truth, right? Whereas yesterday it was correct, but someone changed it and the AI tool pulls it out and they're like, oh, here it is. Whereas if once blockchain keeps evolving, Wikipedia is essentially going to be like on a blockchain piece where all the changes that have ever occurred on the website for the Wikipedia is going to be recorded, right? And so AI is going to say, hey, that's not accurate. Like, this actually happened on this date and it was this person, not Fred from Delaware, you know what I mean? Uh, so it's going to actually be able to read and create like a. A memory for super intelligence with AI and the money that exists for AI to do all this stuff is. Has to live on the Internet. It can't live just in this, like, tangible world, right? And so that's why it's going to be. It's going to be really interesting to see over the next couple of years how this really progresses.
- [27:48]
B
Well, and when I say they can't touch it and feel it is because the Internet was something people could use right now as a blockchain, there's nothing to use, per se. Right.
- [27:58]
A
That's not necessarily true.
- [28:00]
B
Then that's. That's where I want to go. So what are people, like, either naive and don't know that they're in the blockchain or using blockchain?
- [28:08]
A
Sure.
- [28:09]
B
Like, where's your company OPA group. Like where are you putting time and energy and what is actually out there that is in use?
- [28:17]
A
Sure, sure. So, so like one of the things that people right now is because you gotta think that blockchain is so new, right? Like it's been around for 15, 20 years really, like just very new, right? And so they've been building out the infrastructure for these things, right? Like email was invented back in like what, 69. And it really didn't receive mass adoption, mass. Mass adoption till like 2010. Right? Like people are seeing their bank statements in the mail, you know what I mean? Like rather than just getting them online and paying them online, right? And so it takes time to evolve, right? And so what people. The first thing that people really saw was like NFTs in video games where they can actually do stuff on Chain, right? So I don't know if you ever heard of Axie Infinity.
- [29:06]
B
I have not.
- [29:07]
A
It's a. Basically it's Pokemon, except you have a. Your Pokemon is a image that exists and a character on chain that lives in a smart contract called an nft which is a non fungible token. And you can battle other axies that you can level up and grow and then say you have the best Axie Pokemon style thing you can sell that actually sell it. Because you put all this time, energy and effort and you own it, like legitimately own it within the game because it's in your wallet, it sits there and you've been playing this game for a while and you could sell it to someone for say some of them sold for hundreds, millions of dollars.
- [29:47]
B
Like I literally don't even understand that world. And I know that like Gary V was huge in that world. I had some other friends that created their own nft. And I go, I don't understand what the hell is. Like it's an image. I don't get it. Like I get that it's art and art has value, there's no doubt. Or like there was.
- [30:07]
A
What were they called?
- [30:08]
B
Like drunken monkeys or something. Bored AP and like they were going for millions of dollars.
- [30:15]
A
Yes.
- [30:15]
B
And I just said I don't. Can you at least explain it to me so I have some clarity? Because I have no idea what that was still about to this very moment.
- [30:24]
A
Saving on your education should be a right, not a competition.
- [30:28]
B
At University of Phoenix, you'll get the best scholarship or savings you qualify for.
- [30:32]
A
Simple as that. Explore scholarship options at University of Phoenix. Mic check, one, two. Are we recording? Hi, I'm Michelle Bernstein, an award winning.
- [30:46]
B
Chef, restaurateur, and mom I have a.
- [30:49]
A
Lot on my plate, including my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. That's why I was prescribed Cosentyx. It helps me move better.
- [30:57]
B
Cosentyx Secukenumab is prescribed for people 2 years of age and older with active psoriatic arthritis. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or plan to. Or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentix or cosentix.com Ask.
- [31:34]
A
Your rheumatologist about Cosentyx. Guys, it's no use putting it off.
- [31:40]
B
The best time for an underwear refresh is now. Tommy Don underwear is designed for a.
- [31:45]
A
Perfect fit that stays put all day.
- [31:47]
B
There's zero chafe thanks to four times more stretch than competing brands and their innovative horizontal Quick Draw Fly is a game changer. With over 3030 million pairs sold, there are thousands of men out there more comfortable than you. Don't settle for less. Go to tommyjohn.com today for 25 off.
- [32:01]
A
Your first order with code comfort.
- [32:03]
B
That's tommyjohn.comfort Tommy John comfort Perfected Carvana is so easy. Just a click and we've got ourselves a car.
- [32:13]
A
See so many cars.
- [32:15]
B
That's a clicktastic inventory.
- [32:17]
A
And check out the financing options payments.
- [32:20]
B
To fit our budget. I mean that's Clickonomics 101 delivery to our door. Just a hop, skip and a click away and bought no better feeling than.
- [32:29]
A
When everything just clicks.
- [32:33]
B
Buy your car today on Carvana.
- [32:36]
A
Delivery fees may apply. So what that was really about was the exclusive club that it would provide. So like the reason why I exploded was because of the sense of community, right? So like, yes, the pictures and all that, it was cool. You're like, wow, I can prove that I own this on the Internet, right? Like before, if you make a meme right and put it out there, everyone could steal your meme. And then the only way you can say I made it was to say I made it, right? But now say you make a meme, put it on chain and then put it out there. You can show that you are the person that made that meme, right? Because there's a timestamp, it has a unique identifier that's related to the meme that you created. And so that's like the sell of NFTs and why they're kind of special in terms of like blockchain. But what people really fell in love with was there was only 10,000 board apes, right. And they're selling for 10, tens of thousands of hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars. Right. And there's only 10,000. And they have this secret community club that you have to have bored ape to get into the Discord Channel, to get into the, what they call the bathroom on their website, where it's a community. Right. Justin Bieber owned one of these things. Several celebrities, I think Eminem bought one. Like all these celebrities bought these. And so if you owned one of them and they're in the discord, you could potentially get access to these people. Because what you do is you log into your Discord and put in your wallet and then the, the wallet will read, the software will read your wallet to see if you have a bored ape in there. And if you don't, it won't let you in. If you do, you get in and then you get access to this high net worth community. Right. And so that was the craze for it because it created scarcity for like art, creative world, and then also like this community that people can really be involved in, you know. And so it was just, it was the hype of COVID where Pokemon cards were going crazy, Beanie Babies, all the things were going crazy. All these collectibles and the art just kind of made it fun and entertaining and it just kind of exploded from there.
- [34:45]
B
Is there any type of blockchain value to that or. No, I mean, it just. Or is that more fun?
- [34:50]
A
In what sense?
- [34:51]
B
It's that on the blockchain.
- [34:52]
A
Right.
- [34:52]
B
I mean, that's the idea.
- [34:54]
A
Yes.
- [34:54]
B
But there was no, like, again, real world values. More collectibles.
- [34:59]
A
Well, yeah, they're, they're the idea.
- [35:00]
B
There is collectibles on the blockchain.
- [35:02]
A
Collectibles on the blockchain. The real world value is, is being in an exclusive club.
- [35:08]
B
Yeah.
- [35:09]
A
Potentially get into meeting say Justin Bieber in the Discord because. Right.
- [35:15]
B
And he does a private performance for everyone who's like, totally good. Yeah, yeah, I love. And by the way, I love that stuff. Right. In the sense of I really believe community is really everything. Right. But let's move on to like the, the real world value. What OPA group is really moving the needle on and we talked about mortgages. Title is one that you know, being in real estate five years ago, we thought like title companies were going to go under. There was no need for humans. It was all going to be blockchain. I have not seen anything in my own real world experience of buying and selling homes every day.
- [35:49]
A
Yep, yep.
- [35:50]
B
To say that that is anything's going on there. But what else are you guys working on to move the needle in the real world? Blockchain. Yeah. Transactional. Like where I'm trying to go is like how does the average person listening or watching this.
- [36:02]
A
Yes.
- [36:04]
B
How do they feel or see blockchain affecting them in the day to day.
- [36:10]
A
Sure. And that's the trick is I don't and I don't even think that that is the goal and anymore I think it was at one point.
- [36:18]
B
Sure.
- [36:19]
A
Just because people were just so excited about this technology and it does have its limits because you can't really feel it touch it. Because it does live in the world. Like if you want to have like where it's going to since it does live in the Internet intact. Right. Like where you'll really see it is like augmented reality, virtual reality. Like that's where blockchain will take off in that world. In world it's just going to be in the background. Like you don't think about oh my banking app is the best thing in the world. You know what I mean? If I had the best KYC bank ever. You know what I mean? Like, like, like people aren't like thinking like that. But investors where it's going to really impact the average Joe's like the investors. Right. Like you can get this on chain. So they're talking about where you can kind of see it is the Empire State Building.
- [37:07]
B
Right.
- [37:07]
A
They are talking about putting a fraction of the Empire State Building into an RWA and then which is an RWA is just a smart contract. It's actually an NFT but It's rebranded it RWA because NFTs got such a.
- [37:22]
B
Bad rap after everything that went down. Yeah.
- [37:25]
A
All the JPEGs and all the monkeys and all the crazy stuff happen. So an RWA is literally an ant. It is just a smart contract with a unique identifier that you can pin to either real world assets, something unique, an image, whatever it is. And then you can fractionalize the ownership of that piece. Right. So essentially what they're talking about is fractionalizing the ownership of the rents, values, whatever is coming through for the Empire State Building and say they sell a Hundred thousand units, you can potentially buy one of these tokens that is tied to the rwa and then you will own a percentage of the Empire State Building that.
- [38:08]
B
So just so we're clear, for those in real estate or not in real estate, a syndication fund has a lot of similarity to what Thomas is talking about, right. Where the syndication fund typically owns a percentage of the apartment building or whatever the asset was. And as an investor in the fund, you have a percentage of that ownership. Right. So as rent or as a sell off, there's typically something that comes back to you as a potential owner and so. Or a fractional owner. And so what we're talking about is the Empire State building. The, the RWA would own whatever it is, let's say 10 to keep neighbors easy. Yeah. And every token in the RWA, let's just say there's a thousand tokens, costs $100,000. Right. So you have, what is that, 10 million. $10 million essentially is raised to do whatever, Right. For the ownership of that 10 of the empire State Building. If the Empire State building sells in 10 years at a profit, then that 10% of the RWA goes into the ownership group that invested the hundred thousand dollars a share. So I love that principle. The fractionalization of real estate to me is the highest use that I'm aware of. I'm also in real estate, so you know, a lot more of the, like real world assets that are actually starting to gain traction within this. But I, I think, and maybe you can clarify, I was, I think I was made aware of like a multi million dollar home in Florida that sold on the blockchain. Are you aware of that? I don't know if it ever went through. I think maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Yeah, but for the same purpose, meaning a group of individuals now owns the home.
- [39:54]
A
Yes. Right.
- [39:55]
B
On a fractional basis through the blockchain.
- [39:58]
A
Exactly. And that's pretty much exactly it. I mean, you hit on the nail on the head, right? Like that is the sell here. And that's what we're doing with OFA group at Hearth Labs. We are building a essentially RWA launch pad for people who own real estate who want to take their real estate, put it on chain, get the liquidity that they're looking for. Because a lot of times one of the problems is, is you have these investor groups and their liquidity is locked up into this massive building. Right. They can go to some very specific people or groups, but now you can open that up to the public and get it trading on a secondary market, and you get the access to liquidity that you're kind of looking for so that you can take that money and then invest it elsewhere. Right. So you have investors that go and build a massive building, and they're like, okay, well, I want to own this and I want to do it, but I want to sell off part of it. So I can take this now and the proceeds from the RWA sale and go build another building. Right. It creates a little more efficient market to allow builders to get more access to their capital. Right. And so that's kind of what we're doing at Hearth Labs. Like, it's going to be. You're. We're going to have. And we're actually doing this ofa group. We're doing it first with one of our properties that we're kind of looking at. We're going to be putting it into a tokenization and launching it on the platform. And we're talks with a couple exchanges, and we're going to be fractionalizing the ownership of this apartment building that we're buying.
- [41:32]
B
Yeah.
- [41:32]
A
And so we're putting our money where our mouth is and we're going to really start growing this thing and building it out. Because there's a lot that's involved. It's pretty technical and pretty complicated. Just because you have to do the KYC process, you have to have title. There's a lot of. A lot of working pieces that goes in between it. And so we're pretty much trying to solve that to create this launchpad to allow people who want access to these markets, who want to be able to fractionalize their property to do that. Right. And make it seamless and easy, you know, and then they would launch it and have a token, and they would sell out their token. It would be some kind of offering. And then we put it on exchanges for secondary market.
- [42:14]
B
Yeah, I think so. Title. Let's talk about title. One place I do genuinely believe needs help is title. I can't tell you how many times I've gone into a real estate transaction. The title is just like a total clusterfuck.
- [42:27]
A
Yes.
- [42:27]
B
Right. Like they don't know the first thing. They're literally just like, respectfully. I feel like they're just paid hourly workers that don't care and aren't willing to do the work to go find the answer of this, whether it's a lien or there's something on title that needs to be removed. But they just say, I don't know, there's this thing and, and like the clarity that would happen on Blockchain to me is like an absolute need in the space.
- [42:50]
A
And I, I, I couldn't agree more. It's funny like it. In 2016, I wrote a paper on this when I was in law school, basically. And this is why I got so into it. I love it was basically how overage the 2008 crisis would never happened if you had everything on a blockchain. Right. And so when I wrote that paper, a title company called me and they were trying to build this out. The only problem is, is to put everything on chain. The only problem is there's no money in it because it's government. Right. And so like eventually we will that I think, you know, but, and it's going to happen just because it is so much more efficient and you can know what's real, what's not in terms of this is where the law comes into. It's like there's things that's like for title, say liens. Some states are first to file liens. Right. Some states are first to report. Or if you hadn't filed it, you have a certain window from the time that the document was executed. Right. As long as people are put on notice. Right. So with liens and everything. And so it's going to happen eventually. But like I said earlier, people are still receiving their bank statements in the mail and writing checks. You know what I mean? And so it's something that takes time. And the reason why you don't have like a Mark Zuckerberg or an Elon Musk or someone out there going and doing it is because there's not a whole lot of money in just recording titles.
- [44:20]
B
There isn't. I mean that's, you know, now there's money to owning title companies with money because there's fees for every transaction.
- [44:28]
A
Yes, yes.
- [44:29]
B
But, but the blockchain wouldn't create revenue. And so there's, there's not a lot of money in it.
- [44:35]
A
Exactly. There's not a whole lot of money into it. It's. And so it's like, like title checks. Right. Because then they go. These are the people that go to the offices, they check how we go through the paperwork. I think that would still kind of exist, but I really think a lot of that one. And this goes back to where I'm saying that AI and Blockchain have a very similar thing is because once all the titles are on chain, AI is going to be able to read it like that. And they will also know what's fake and what's not? What's real? What timestamp was done. Like, title checks will be done within an instant. If every single title was on chain and you had AI reading it, it would be completely eliminated. And it would just be, hey, give me the title search for this.
- [45:19]
B
Boom.
- [45:20]
A
You type in the property and everything is right there. And the AI will tell you exactly.
- [45:25]
B
What'S on it, you know, have to happen for that to start taking.
- [45:30]
A
You need to get all the local jurisdictions on board to start integrating this. And another reason why it's taking forever is because, like, there is a electronic system, but there's also a hard file system. And so the amount of man hours, woman hours, whatever it is that would take to put everything that's not on chain now on chain would take a lot of physical time, right? And so, like I said, no money. Who's going to pay all these people to do it? And then you also need to go to the local jurisdiction, say, hey, you have to use this software now. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, if, you know, like, local jurisdictions don't necessarily change their processes that often. You know what I mean? And so, like, it's one of those things that in a perfect world, yes, we would just immediately be like, hey, guys, you have to do this. Start doing it now, because it will only be easier moving forward. Right? Like, have a system that's partial, that's integrated, and then everything moving forwards on chain, right? And then you just upload all this stuff and eventually it would just, over time, everything would be on chain. But we need someone to do that and get everyone on the same page to make it happen.
- [46:44]
B
I feel like Elon Musk is rich enough to be able to carry that bill and push it forward.
- [46:49]
A
I think so, too.
- [46:51]
B
Yeah, he could be any. Any.
- [46:53]
A
Where do we want?
- [46:54]
B
You know, I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of questions about this. Where can everyone find you? Where. Where should we push people to, like, ask you questions since you're the expert? Where do we want to go from there?
- [47:02]
A
They can find me on LinkedIn, just Thomas, Kathy, or OFA group on LinkedIn. Our website is ofacorp.com we're on Twitter and Instagram and stuff. But yeah, I would definitely go to LinkedIn to start. We publish all our news there. We're a publicly traded company. Our ticker is ofall if you want to check that out of A L. And we publish news on the NASDAQ frequently, so you can find us there as well.
- [47:33]
B
So that's awesome. Well OFA Group COO Thomas Gaffney I am Justin Colby and this has been the Entrepreneur DNA. If you think someone has interest in understanding more about Blockchain and how this is going to start to affect people's lives, please share this with at least two of your friends. I'd greatly appreciate it. See you on the next episode.
- [47:54]
A
Saving on your education should be a right, not a competition.
- [47:58]
B
At University of Phoenix, you'll get the the best scholarship or savings you qualify for.
- [48:03]
A
Simple as that. Explore scholarship options at University of Phoenix.
- [48:09]
B
Psoriatic Arthritis Symptoms can be unpredictable. I had joint pain and I couldn't move like I used to.
- [48:16]
A
I needed relief. I got Cosentyx.
- [48:21]
B
It helped me move better. Cosentyx Secukenumab is prescribed for people 2 years of age and older with active psoriatic arthritis. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-cosentyx or cosentyx.com.
- [49:04]
A
Ask your dermatologist about Cosentyx. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water. Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it. Even in cold butter. Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be Tide. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow.
- [49:45]
B
Thank you for listening.