← The Entrepreneur DNA
The Entrepreneur DNA
How He Built a $300M Empire by Paying You to Use Your Phone | Dan Novaes | EP 66
00:39:50
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- [00:02]
Justin
If you've been having your McDonald's sausage McMuffin with an iced coffee from somewhere else, now is a great time to reconsider.
- [00:11]
Dan Novias
In the Pacific Northwest, it's never too.
- [00:13]
Justin
Cold for an iced coffee in the morning. Grab yourself a medium caramel, French vanilla or classic iced coffee for just $2.29. Beverage may cause craving for McMuffin or hash browns. Prices and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal.
- [00:31]
Dan Novias
This is like when you're a true entrepreneur, you kind of like, you know, have to kind of think, what are you good at? You know what I mean? For me, I've always been a consumer marketer and I started thinking, I was like, well, how do I reward, how can I reward them? So I was like, well, what if I gave my consumers shares in my business and then what if I started to get, and I got into crowdfunding and started really learning a lot about it and that's kind of what got us here. And so it took me one year to kind of actually execute on this because you had to get audited financials, you had to do all this work that most people don't want to do, you know, and they won't do it. That's, that's actually, I think that's a different. Most marketers won't do it. They just want to, they want to start a funnel and go through. I'm willing to go through the work of it, but it, it's not trivial.
- [01:13]
Justin
What is up the entrepreneur DNA family. I am back with an incredible guest. This young entrepreneur has built an empire of over $300 million. You are going to want to listen to this. He's totally changing the landscape of technology, mobile phones, etc. He has actually created a funding structure that is revolutionary. He has actually been named number one software company back in 2023 by Deloitte. My man Dan Novias is on. What is happening bro?
- [01:42]
Dan Novias
Thanks for having me, Justin. Appreciate it. Looking for.
- [01:44]
Justin
Yeah, you're doing something really special. As someone that in my space I have raised tens and tens, if maybe not $100 million over a 20 year career or so. But you're really changing the shape of how entrepreneurs raise capital. Talk to, talk to us about that.
- [02:00]
Dan Novias
Yeah, I mean I think the, the model really came down of like, you know, there's really two ways to kind of raise capital, you know, and well, traditionally, you know, people have thought about it and like, hey, like, you know, I'm going to have to go out raise angel round. Then it's a VC round. So it's, it's kind of like you're following a, a specific pattern. For me, you know, the way we kind of got here is, you know, I was a marketer, I knew, you know, we had a consumer facing business and then we saw this really interesting opportunity about how do we make our consumers actually investors? And then also if you know how to, you know, bring traffic onto your site, how can you get everyday people to also be a part of that mission? And so, you know, happy to dive into that and also like all the extra benefits beyond just the capital that you get when you really kind of take a crowdfund to like the next level.
- [02:44]
Justin
Yeah, I want to actually start. You're, you're young. I call you a young thundercat. Right. You're under, substantially under 40, if you don't mind. You're 36. But you know, you've built an empire. Right. There's not many people walking the streets at your age can say you have built an empire of $300 million. And as someone who's done very well in my life, I can tell you that didn't come with its own set of challenges. So let's maybe start by talking about that journey that you took where you're today, but then what it really took to get to where you're at today.
- [03:18]
Dan Novias
Yeah, a lot of trial and tribulations, I think, like most entrepreneurs. But yeah, I mean, I had to kind of start at the beginning of Hannah kind of we got there. But you know, we, we initially got into this space and, and the whole thesis of the business is really, you know, it wasn't actually. The idea didn't come like, oh, like this is actually our idea. You know what I mean? What ended up happening is my co founder and I at the time had built a music streaming service. It was kind of a dud, you know, and we've done a lot of different entrepreneurial ventures there. We fortunately had a couple small exits along the way and. But it was kind of a dud. It wasn't really working. But we did have one cohort of user that was using it and we went to go talk to that, you know, those people and then they were like, you know, why are you using this? And what we found is that they tend to be more budget conscious consumers. They were not willing to pay for subscriptions, but they were using our service because we were aggregating a lot of music services in one place. And so what we learned is like, hey, what if we were to pay you for your attention and monetize you with ads. Would you do tasks to do that? Right? And people were like really interested in that. So we just randomly put up a wait list. Like we didn't even have the feature bill, but we had like 250,000 people sign up to this. Like, you know, just kind of like, you remember the early days of like Dropbox or when Robinhood launched, like they would do those like you fight a friend, skip the line. And Sarah, that was, it was the time of that, right? The late teens of, you know, 2016, 2017, 2018. And so we launched that service. It started doing really well and then it was really hard to make any money because music is like the worst business to actually be able to pay. You know, usually it's like the companies are going bankrupt, you know. So what we did was like, oh, well, what if we move into like them to do other tasks like games or shopping or video. They things that actually require your attention. And that's really kind of actually where we started moving into this idea of kind of rewarding people for their everyday things. And the more and more features that we started building, the more we were like, oh, what we're really building is kind of like an earn os, like an operating system for earning. And then we had this crazy idea that was like, hey, we're going to launch a phone that pays you as you do it. And then I flew to China at the time and was right before COVID and you know, figured out a way to launch 5000 phones. Super scrappy. But we had all these users and I was like, worst comes to worst, like, you know, these, these people will just hopefully buy these phones because obviously they're earning already. And we sold them out very quickly. And then that's kind of the idea of what was, you know, got us into Earnphone. And we had this insane growth from 2019 to 2022 and things were going great. You know, we're like, you know, we, you know, obviously we hit number one fastest growing company. We had like a 32,481% growth rate. And everyone thinks, oh, like, you know, you're going to sail off to the sunset and all the things great. And then we got hit really hard with a bunch of nonsense, you know, which was, yeah, as you do, you know. And so in 20, in 2022, what ended up happening was we were generating a ton of revenue from a lot of crypto companies, a lot of fintech companies, because the way that our business model operates. So for for people that are, you know, a lot of people are entrepreneurs here, so I think they'll understand this relatively quickly. But, you know, generally the way the business model operates is like, look, there's 168 hours in a week, 112if you're sleeping eight hours a day, and people are spending 40 to 50 hours a week on their smartphone. What you're doing on that smartphone, you're reading the news, you're listening to stuff, you're watching stuff, you're listening to a podcast. And there are brands that want your attention. And so what we do is we basically partner with brands that want your attention, and then we share a percentage of that revenue that those brands are essentially, you know, getting to your attention. And so it's about aligning incentives. Our audience tends to be a bit more budget conscious, as I mentioned, and that's the vast majority of people. You know, 6 billion phones out there. But in 2022, where we saw this amazing sweet spot was like a lot of crypto companies and neo banks were going public, you know, or crypto companies were just popping. This is pre sbf, like, you know, really taking the entire market. And the Terra Luna bust that happened, and out of nowhere, you know, we were basically just like having. My number one client was Voyager, if you. I don't know if you at the time. And they went bankrupt, and he owed us millions of dollars in capital, and we were one of the biggest creditors in the suit, as a marketer at least. And. And then suddenly my business literally flipped because, you know, we were growing insane. And then out of nowhere, all these people that were supposed to pay us either had to cut budgets or were going out of business. And so. So we were then in a very difficult situation because I had to figure out, how do I continue paying people the same amount that I was while paying them less? Which is a conundrum in itself. And then secondly, you know, all of these growth stage funds, because, you know, the way that entrepreneurship works, right, is basically like, you know, for. For at least people that are going to take in capital. It's like you get your seed round, then you go to series A, and then you go to Series B, and then you go into series. And once you start getting to series C level, maybe you're going to exit or you're maybe going to go to the next phase, which is go public. And at the time, a lot of people were going public, but all of these growth stage investors were super underwater, like, you know, Softbank and, you know, all the. Weworks the companies were in that late, that stage. And so I saw the writing on the wall, which was like, you know, my company was doing tens of millions of dollars of revenue, but we were not late stage enough. And we weren't even in the portfolio of some of these guys. And they're so underwater that they're going to focus on the one or two companies that are going to win in their portfolio. And I just, and I, and then I saw that basically, you know, we started seeing the quantitative tightening starting to happen. It's like, capital isn't cheap any anymore. No one's going to get 0% interest rates. And so this is like when you're a true entrepreneur, you kind of like, you know, have to kind of think, what are you good at? You know what I mean? For me, I've always been a consumer marketer and I started thinking, I was like, well, how do I reward, how can I reward them? So I was like, well, what if I gave my consumers shares in my business? And then what if I started to get. And I got into crowdfunding and started really learning a lot about it. And that's kind of what got us here. And so it took me one year to kind of actually execute on this because you had to get audited financials, you had to do all this work that most people don't want to do, you know, and they won't do it. That's a, that's actually, I think that's a differential. Most marketers won't do it. They just want to, they want to start a funnel and go through. I'm willing to go through the work of it, but it's not trivial. And then one year later, we did our first raise and you know, in three months we sold it out. You know, you're maxed at $5 million for reg CF and we ended up raising 6. We had to refund about a million dollars almost. And then we went through for this bigger raise, which now we're currently in. And, you know, it's going tremendously. I mean, we've raised, you know, just under $30 million in this raise. Or, you know, you can raise up to 75 in this capacity. So it's kind of getting us ready for this next phase. You know, we intend to take the company public in the next couple years. And yeah, so I think like, the, the moral of the story is when you're in these kind of difficult situations, it completely changed the pattern of like, what we were going to do. But then we found this really amazing and, and honestly, the benefits that we've gotten, not beyond capital raising, is the fact that, like, you know, you. One of their biggest channels is newsletters. Right. So I actually think, you know, I think we got connected through a mutual friend. Travis.
- [10:29]
Justin
Yeah.
- [10:30]
Dan Novias
You know, and. And I actually put his face one time on a Morning Brew ad, and he. He hit me up. He's like, dude, why is my face on Morning Brew? And I was like. I was like, dude, I was running out of creative. They wouldn't accept my original creative. And then we had just done the podcast, so I just threw your face on there. And so it was kind of a funny thing. But, you know, we started going on all these newsletters, whether it's Morning Brew or snacks. And, you know, we buy from a hundred different sources. But now, you know, what we get is all this extra marketing that people also find out about our company. And for us, you know, we're really trying to create earnedphone as a category, and you kind of have to educate people of what that even means. And so typically, companies will spend marketing dollars and burn it, incinerate it. You know, I'm actually spending marketing dollars, creating awareness from the business and bringing capital at the same time. It's like a very different thing. But my audience tends to be the people that are using our product tend to be more budget conscious. So they're not necessarily, like, you know, the people that are investing aren't necessarily my users of, like, who's going to use my phone? But they are the people that are investing a couple thousand dollars or whatever it might be. And so it's really interesting and you're kind of like, you know, going through this much longer kind of life cycle of creating this amazing business into the future. So I think, like, for us, I always say, like, our goal is to be the first company with a million shareholders. And it's, you know, prior to going public and, you know, today we have over, you know, well over 20,000, you know, 30,000, sorry, shareholders in the business. But we have a pending wait list of almost 300,000 because we broke the technology required by the broker dealer to get those people in there. And so, you know, we're well on our way, you know, so it's been definitely a. A crazy ride, know, to get to get there over the last few years.
- [12:07]
Justin
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- [13:36]
C
Are you someone who tries to drive while distracted by your phone? Someone who props it on the steering wheel or peeks down at it for a glance or just scrolls and scrolls? If so, you could be the next person to get into a thunder bender, get a ticket, veer off the road, or even cause a crash that kills you or someone else. Enough already. Put the phone away. Or pay paid for by nhtsa.
- [14:06]
Justin
There's a lot to unpack. I really believe anyone who is looking up to you, looks up to me. Looks up to anyone of influence, anyone who's done anything special in their life. I think a lot of people don't account for actually the headwinds, the challenges, the hurdles that we all go through, right? Different seasons, different financial markets, different economies, different things that we all do. And I, I made a post about this the other day. A lot of people don't focus on the stamina of what it takes to create longevity, right? They get hit in the face and they just stay down. But really it's the stamina to keep going. In spite of the headwinds, in spite of the challenges, in spite of the software like breaking, because you have 300,000 people that are ready to subscribe. Like, that's a challenge and it sucks. And, and the thing that you, you kind of went through several years before and you're like, oh man, you know, the Crypto world basically is a collapsed model right now, and all these other, you know, banks and all these things are collapsing. They were our biggest clients. Like, what now? And for you to have the stamina, but then in the fortitude and ingenuity to, like, there's an answer. I may not know it this second, but there's an answer to this. Yeah, I'm going to find my way to it. And it's so special to me to talk to people like you and host a podcast like this because I get to talk to people who really gone through it, who have really faced the challenges, but then also had the stamina to continue to fight through it because they had the belief system that they were going to do something special. And for some of you, you may not have heard all that with what Dan just said, but I did. That's what I heard right, is I have the ingenuity, I have the creative function, but I have the endurance and the stamina to keep going, even when it's not all puppy dogs and rainbows.
- [15:56]
Dan Novias
Yeah, I think that, like, you know, I mean, this is a major reason why a lot of companies go out of business and, like, that first year or whatever. And. And I. And I, like, it doesn't mean that you, you know, you start, like, you don't necessarily always end where you start. Like, you know what I mean? Like, for us, like, I think the amount of pivots that we have had over the years has been. Has been tremendous. And, you know, and each time you kind of learn a little thing, like, you know, for. For us, like the big takeaways, you know, I had in that 22s. Yeah. A new way of capital was born into doing that. But I also learned, oh, like, you know, if you're not dumping marketing dollars, because, you know, at the time it was like, growth at all costs, you know, and extend your payback period, like, you know, six months, nine months. And, you know, the market now is, like, all about profitability and so. And then, like, the difference between recurring revenue and ad revenue and, like, you know, so there was just so much stuff that you learned that I learned in those periods. And you. I'm not going to lie, like, honestly, there was about two or three months. It was dark. Like a dark, dark time. Summer. It was summer, but it was dark for me. So.
- [16:55]
Justin
Yeah.
- [16:56]
Dan Novias
And I remember. And like, you know, then I. But then I developed all these really great habits at the time, too, because I was just like, dude, I can't continue living like this, you know, so after like, three weeks, three days. Sorry. Of. Of kind of just like, you know, being down, like, what am I to do? Because you have to make a lot of rapid decisions. You know, like, unfortunately for us, like, we had to make significant cuts. Like, we had to reshape, like, you know, because our gross margin went from 75% to 37% like, overnight, you know, and I just went from like, the best month of business to, like, the worst in the matter of two or three months. It's like, this is insane.
- [17:26]
Justin
Yeah.
- [17:27]
Dan Novias
But, you know, the quicker you can make that happen and also the going through these kind of, like, ups and downs, like, the longer you can also withstand the higher likelihood your company is not going to fail in the future. It's kind of like you're almost future proofing it in itself. And it doesn't mean that something can't happen in the future. But the amount of times that we've almost KO'd is so many at this point. I'm like, well, I feel good about where we're at because you're kind of. It's pattern matching. You're like, okay, what do I need to start thinking about now? Or what's happening in today's environment or what's happening even in the economy today that in the past I may have just kind of like, you know, not even paid attention to that, you know, would pay huge repercussions if you don't address it now. So we're always trying to, like, think about that. So I'm super thankful for those times, and I think it's the only way to look at it, you know, as opposed to just commiserate around it.
- [18:22]
Justin
Yeah. Like you said, I mean, the thing about it is, because you've been able to make through it before, you build a certain sense of confidence that you can continue to make through it again. So even if you do get, you know, knocked down again, you know, you have the endurance and the ability and strength to get back up and to keep going and have the ingenuity to look around the corner. I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there that listen to this or watch this. The one thing they're missing is to try to look around the corner a little bit more. Right. They just keep going straight. And so when the. The right haymaker comes and they don't see it because they're only looking straight. They weren't prepared. Where now yourself, myself, and others who have been around for quite some time, we start to try to look around that corner. So they don't have to get hit quite as hard. That storm might still come, but it doesn't mean you have to be directly in the center of it either. And so that's, that's a big thing that a lot of entrepreneurs don't understand. Now let's talk about Mode Mobile. Let's talk about earned phones. Talk about really what you've built here. Because, you know, you changed your model in a way that, frankly, it's funny you're saying it so in the, in the education space, I did a very similar thing. I went from very high revenue, very high numbers into realizing there's a change in the. This is where the experience came into play for me. It was a change in the economy, there's a change in the financials, there's change. And so I need to be able to pivot alongside of that. And so I actually am more in the same vein that you're in, where I'm actually doing more deals with people and bringing them in as equity partners versus borrowing money from lenders and has changed my game completely over the last five or six months because typically I would borrow money right from lenders and I would do deals 100% my own and I wouldn't have anything else. Now they actually come into the space and actually gain equity into the ownership of the assets. As a real estate investor rather than just being a lender and I'm speaking real estate terms.
- [20:19]
Dan Novias
Right.
- [20:20]
Justin
And buying apartment complexes and giving them ownership of it and still being able to refinance some of their money back out so they can get their capital back out and stay in for the ownership, for the income, for the tax, write off, for the upside and sell off. You're doing something very similar in tech space.
- [20:37]
Dan Novias
Yeah. And I think that, I mean, I know actually a lot of people that do the reg A model which is basically the format at. Which raises capital for real estate, you know, and they've raised $75 million via these various syndicates. And you get equity ownership in it and it's worked very well. And you have that power of that community in there. But yeah, I mean, I think like anytime that you can also align and have upside, you know, is. It's. There's a lot of power that comes from that. You know what I mean? People like, you know, I always think about it as like a big component of all this is if you look at like stocks, like the public market stocks, like, and whether it's like Tesla or even something as stupid as like GameStop. Right. What are the two things that really matter, generally that you need for a very high multiple, right? And it's generally like, you have to have baseline good financials, but you have to have, like a followership or a cult, almost like, you know, so look at why, like Tesla, even though it's gotten hammered over the last, like, week, just like everything else, it trades at like a 97 multiple and Ford trades at like a 6. And then when you, like, look at, you know, GameStop or these other companies, like, dude, the these guys are sitting on like $6 billion in cash because of that meme craze, right? And they sold into it. And so if you can actually have a great company or a great, you know, asset or a great apartment or whatever it might be, and then you could have, like, people in there that are bought into it, right? And this is the thesis as to why tech companies give all their employees, like, options and stock options into the company is so everyone's aligned. But if you can do that for a million people, right, that are your consumers as well, you create an army, right? You create a lot of people that can advocate, you know, we can send one email out and drive like 10,000 people to go put like the mode ticker symbol on any website. And then suddenly now you're getting, like, additional reach and all that stuff. So I kind of think about it in that way, too, is like, how do you harness the power of those individuals that are bought into that mission and then want to kind of see it grow? I always think about even like, you know, if Apple suddenly changed the way it thought about its business, where it's like, hey, if you invest $100,000, Apple, you get our products first two months before everyone else. If you invest a million dollars in Apple, you get to go to the Worldwide Developer Conference. And if you invest $10 million, you get to come to our Cupertino and meet Tim Cook, along with a hundred other big Apple investors that I bet you there would be a lot more people. Not that Apple necessarily needs it because they're a $3 trillion company, but I assure you there'll be a lot more people that would look into that threshold. And it's kind of similar to what happened in the Web3 market with NFTs and bored APE and all that stuff, but if you think about that from a business perspective of the power of community in your company, it could be very, very powerful. And so, you know, anyone that's starting a new business, like, you know, this has been a part of, like, country clubs and membership clubs In a long time. Right. It's kind of like before they even open the club, it's like, oh, you can be a founder member, you know, of this club, and then you're forever a founder member. Right. But now what are they using that your membership that you paid, they're essentially using that money to build the space. You know what I mean? And. And so it's not like a new concept, but I think that people can apply it in many different ways and you could really get a lot out of it if you can create a lot of value for your shareholders beyond just the service itself, beyond the returns. And so that's kind of how we think about it, of how we think about how to reward our shareholders and. And whatnot.
- [23:53]
Justin
You and I are in very much alignment, I think community above all else. Right. So I went in 2025 thinking, I want more connections and I want more community and I want more collaboration than the last 20 years entrepreneurship I wanted today. I want more in one 12 month than the last 20 years because of where the world is going. We all need it, all of us, including Dan and Justin.
- [24:17]
Dan Novias
Right.
- [24:17]
Justin
We need that same type of community and collaboration. And so in the tech space, you were building something out that is going to be very, very special because of it. But because when you have a community that thinks alike, enjoys the similar things, can have great conversations, can connect and network and be a part of something bigger. And you know, Tony Robbins will tell you, you know, the. The five hierarchy of needs and all this stuff, but part of that is the belonging, being a sport of something, it's somewhere in there. I couldn't tell you where. But like, it is a true, real, like physical and mental and spiritual need for people. And to create that in the tech space like you guys are, I'm doing it very similarly in the real estate space, where it's very independent. Real estate's very. I'm getting my deal, I'm going to become rich and wealthy and everyone else. That's kind of the real estate model, right?
- [25:08]
Dan Novias
Yeah.
- [25:08]
Justin
But I'm creating a complete platform for community and, you know, camaraderie and collaboration in the same way. Because I believe what you guys are already believing.
- [25:18]
Dan Novias
Exactly. And I think like, and it's funny you mentioned a Tony thing because, yeah, I'm a part of the platinum partners that they have there. And so I think that what they do is like, that model is quite interesting. Right. Obviously his business is content. His business is that. Right. But I got pretty inspired when I was thinking, man, like how do I take aspects of what they're doing here and adding value in people's lives? Because it's almost like you can feel sometimes I'm selling you, but it's almost like I don't mind the way he's selling me because I'm like, well, I actually am looking for that, to be honest with you. And so, and it's like, you know, so how you add that value and also like mix it with your service. And it doesn't necessarily be just because like my business is tech. It's not really like if you really break down what we do. I'm in the business of helping people earn and save money, right? I'm doing that from the mechanism of like through this earn phone. But if you think about my shareholders, at least how I thought about my shareholders, especially the non user ones, the ones that are coming in just through the crowdfunding, I'm like, well, these are wealthier individuals, but what do they really want? You know, they want to earn and say they care about tax acts, they care about like investing. They, they found about this in some capacity through a newsletter that they're reading. So like, how do you add more value in these other aspects of life really to the core mission? Not necessarily of just, hey, your phone plan, but think broader. Think of like, you know, any business, like if you're a beautician and you start a salon, you're in the business of making people feel good, right, about their imagery. Like, so you got to really think down what is the emotional. Because emotions drive much more than anything else in our lives, right? And so it's kind of like, how do you think about, like, why is this person buying my service? Why is this person doing something? And there's usually a fundamental basic need, like the five that you're talking about, a sense of belonging, you know, of how you feel, how you feel, et cetera. And so I always try and think about to that level of like how to add value back to, you know, the people that are backing us.
- [27:08]
Justin
So talk to us about Mode Mobile. What is Mode Mobile?
- [27:11]
Dan Novias
Yeah, so Mode. So what we do in Mode essentially is we are focused on transforming the smartphone into what we call the Earn phone, right? And basically, you know, think about the business model in the sense of it's very similar to what's happening with, you know, Roku, you know, and you know, I can dive into that in a second. But at a baseline, like at the baseline essentially is, goes back to that, our example, right? When you really think about that you are spending about one third to one half of your life on a smartphone. And it's not because, like, you're an entrepreneur and I'm an entrepreneur, we spend more time on our phones. I'm talking, like, Gen Z, average person, you know, like, inclusive of, you know, the older generation. Like, my parents included. I see my dad, who never used a smartphone up until like, five years ago, now this guy, this guy's always on the smartphone. I'm like, dad, please put the smartphone down for dinner. You know, where we don't see each other that often. And so there's like, you know, a whole. And that's not going away, you know what I mean? Because it's not like AR and VR is, like, here yet. You know what I mean? And so I think, like, you know, so the idea behind the business is really like, well, if you're going to spend this much time on your smartphones and these brands and these data and these big tech companies are making trillions of dollars off of you, should you get rewarded for that? Right? And if you're buying a $2,000 iPhone, it's not really my target market of who we're focused on. And so. But if you think about Today, there's about 7 billion smartphones around the world. About 1 billion of them are iPhone. And then 6 billion are everything else. And of that 6 billion, 90% of them are like, under $150 devices, right? If you think about in a World War 8 capacity. And right now we're facing one of the biggest kind of like, crises in terms of, like, inflation. And, you know, people like, we're at the highest amount of credit card debt that we've ever had. We're at the highest amount of defaults on car payments. You know, we have 6.8 billion people around the world that are earning less than $12,000 a year. And so you are. We're kind of. It's like this perfect storm. But at the same time, the device cost is going down, the service is getting faster, and so it makes sense. Like, if you think about it, you know, the phone should be free and the data should be free or better, and we're the closest company to make that a reality. And so that's what essentially like, Mo does. You know, we created the EarnPhone, could be earn OS, and we can basically take any smartphone, it's not just the ones that we have in stores, and turn it into a. Into that earned phone idea. And, you know, that's the goal of the future, is essentially to create EarnPhone as a category where you would see Samsung earned phone, Motorola earned phone, kind of what Roku has been able to do in the smart TV space. Because that's the cost, that's the reason that TVs went down from like two grand down to like a hundred bucks. It's not just because manufacturing got better. It's because all the money is being made on your data and you're streaming. And that's why these companies are worth trillions of dollars, is because, you know, they're targeting you. And ads, you know, essentially.
- [30:04]
Justin
So walk us through it. Phone obviously have an iPhone, the expensive ones you're talking about. Yeah, walk us through. How does someone get paid from their phone?
- [30:14]
Dan Novias
Yeah. So I mean, an example of how it works essentially is think about like Candy Crush. What does Candy Crush as an advertiser want? Right. They want you to play their game and build a habit. And so they have a price that they're willing to pay for that within their own internal models. And so they may pay us like seven bucks. Right. For someone. And what we'll do is we will reward you per day you play Candy Crush for a period of seven days. And so it's a long enough period of time that you're getting rewarded. It's not like you're, you're making thousands of dollars like Candy Crush, but it depends on the action. Right? So that's a very simple one. Like playing a game, we might reward you to read a news article, right? And so you were going to read something that you want to do or, or listening a podcast or listening to a music stream, and you're getting paid per minute that you're doing that activity.
- [30:59]
Justin
You're incentivizing people to take the action that you. Now, by the way, it's not you, it is the, your client, which would be Candy Crush or.
- [31:07]
Dan Novias
Yeah, yeah, wherever the client is.
- [31:09]
Justin
And they're incentivizing us, the consumer, to take the actions. They want to have more brain awareness for the thing. Use Candy Crush as the example. You say, hey, Justin, I'll pay you $2 if you use Candy Crush for seven hours this week.
- [31:24]
Dan Novias
Yeah, yeah, essentially. And we'll, we figure out what the, what we're doing essentially is understanding, hey, what is the North Star goal for them that is going to be like their return on ad spend metric that they're targeting. And then you find like, what is enough for the user that's going to make them happy. And then we basically take the middle of that of kind of like the margin in between it. And so that's essentially how the model works. And that's why it's kind of a complex model because you need to make sure that three people are essentially happy in this platform and it's very difficult to do and create value out of it. And that's why it's know, taken us a bit by, you know, we are seeing a ton of success. We've had, you know, well over $350 million in earnings and savings given back to consumers through the platform. And that's growing, you know, every single day.
- [32:11]
Justin
You've paid $350 million already.
- [32:14]
Dan Novias
Yeah. Between earnings and savings. Because, you know, the savings is kind of a, a unique metric because we enable a lot of things because sometimes there's like six unique situations. So like, like Robinhood, for example, who's been a client, you know, they'll ask something where they're willing to pay, say, 100 bucks for you to deposit $5 into a brokerage account because they have their math as to why that works. But what we'll also sometimes do is be able to negotiate like a deal. Like, if you do this, you also get $20 of free stocks, but we're not paying that stock. You know, that stock is coming out of something that they're doing. Or if there's like, you know, sometimes we also enable, like, opportunities for people. So, you know, Equifax had this huge. And Facebook had this huge, like, leak of everyone's data. And these class action came and all you need to do is sign up for a. Like, you didn't have to prove anything. It's just like, you know, sign up and you got like 400 bucks. You know, the Jewel had one. If you ever had smoke the Jewel, you can get 300 bucks. You know what I mean? And so a lot of times, though, a lot of people don't know about these things because no one's out there to tell them. Right. And it's like a law firm. It's not like they're going to do a ton of marketing on this. Like. Right. They're going to get their fee either way. Right. And so the point is, like, we'll enable a lot of these savings opportunities. And so that's kind of like how, you know, we, we track it between earnings and savings.
- [33:28]
Justin
Wow, that's. I mean, bro, that's really brilliant. Right? Because I think there's enough financial pain in today's world that this is going to be needed for, for some time. And this kind of goes back to the point we brought up earlier is this economic model is very important in today's world. It probably wasn't nearly as important over the last decade, right? The last decade, the economy was booming, crypto was booming. Everything was booming. Everyone's rich, happy, fat, and whatever. And so people weren't as conscious of savings and wanting savings and having smaller earnings. And, you know, as someone who coaches other entrepreneurs, this is a model that, like, I could lean into, I could talk about. And the reason being is the same reason why I believe Uber to be the best invention in our lifetime. I know there's a lot of great inventions, but the reason why I love it so much is because as an entrepreneur, I can help other entrepreneurs really create their life by design. And when they get tight on money, all they got to do is go jump in their car, right? Like, it's not, you know, so this is a very similar, like, hey, you're a little kind of money. You need to save some money on bills, or you need to make a couple bucks, pick up the main thing you're staring at all day anyways, right?
- [34:41]
Dan Novias
Like, yeah, yeah. Well, so actually, it's interesting you bring that up because, yeah, it's like. So it's like, you know, what Uber did for cars or Airbnb did for homes. Like, we're doing that for smartphones. I guess. Like, the difference is that not everyone owns a car. You know, not everyone owns a home. And it's like a very. I mean, the people that you're probably coaching are at a certain phase in their life that they can. And. And it's not. But, you know, and there's, you know, there's 7 billion smartphones. And whether you're, like, in some emerging market in the middle of, like, you know, you know, Africa, or you're sitting in your apartment in New York, you have a smartphone, right? And so I think that that's like, you know, that's why we kind of see it as a new asset class at what's possible. And everyone is just spending so much time on this thing. It's like, why not get.
- [35:23]
Justin
I mean, that's. Dude, it's growing it. Like, you're. It's like saying, like, if you're breathing, you get paid.
- [35:31]
Dan Novias
Yeah, that's great. I'll sign up for that. I mean, sign up. Yeah, I'm in for that.
- [35:36]
Justin
I mean, because it's. It is obnoxious how much time. And then I listen, I post a ton. But I don't. I'm not one of those people that scroll. I Just don't, because you and I have too much to do. Like, I don't have time to scroll personally, right? And. And it's funny because I was gonna make a comment on my own personal social media about Barstool Sports is a fun little thing that I'll watch because it's sports and funny. Whatever. They just had a post about some chicken who quit Only Fans, okay. And made some, like, $60 million in three years.
- [36:13]
Dan Novias
Okay.
- [36:14]
Justin
I don't know who she is. I've never heard. I don't have Only fans. I have no idea. And I very rarely even follow Barstool Sports. But when I opened up Instagram, it was right there. The amount of comments about this chick, like, I'm like, guys, do you just all scroll social media and only plans all the time? Are you all overweight, divorced, unhappy? Like, how can there be that many people who know who this chick is, right? Like, she's from Only Fans. It's not like she's Brad Pitt or. Like, does that make sense? Like, I'm just so.
- [36:46]
Dan Novias
Yeah, I think.
- [36:47]
Justin
I think then on their phones, which is why this is brilliant, by the way. I circled that all back. To say why Ian is so genius is because, dude, this chick is only seen on people's phones. Whoever this chick was, I don't even know her name. They're my bro. How much time are people spending on their phones?
- [37:03]
Dan Novias
Well, I think that's the thing is, like, you know, if you. If you look at. It's actually sometimes, like, I opened up a TV show like that, like, maybe a couple months ago where it was like, you know. You know, open up your settings of your phone and look into this. And, like, people are generally shocked, like, you know, Anna. And there's like, now, actually, there's a whole other kind of counterculture that's happening where there's, like, apps that will basically tell you, hey, why are you opening this? Just so that you remember? Because sometimes, like, what we find is, like, you know, we. We have something on the lock screen of our devices that's, like, optional. But it's basically like, we see that the average person's opening up their phone like, 70 times a day, right? But most of the time, they don't even know why they're opening their phone. Like, that's the thing. It's like, you don't know. It's out of boredom or out of habit. You know what I mean? And so we are addicted right, to that. And it's not like, I'm not necessarily against it. It's not necessarily like, you know, I just think I'm just like, see the society, like this is where we're at, you know, this is what people are going to do. And a lot of cases, the people that are using our services are people that don't really necessarily see what their options are in today's economy. They're like, you know, and, and so they need to go out, get a job or whatever it might be where they need a little bit of extra money. And sometimes you don't exactly know where to go. But if there's an easy place to find like a hundred bucks a month, then at least it's something there, you know, and it gives an opportunity. It's a little wind, right? But little wins create like bigger movements, right? You know that from like, you know, the like why I was just talking to my little brother about this, it was like, you know, the reason that the US army is so meticulous about people making their beds at five in the morning and, and, and making it perfect is because it's something you can control. It's the first thing that you do every morning and you can control that. It's a win for the day. And then wins and momentum starts as a snowball, a little snowball turns into a lot of bigger wins throughout the day. And that's why they make you do that, right? Is to start that. And so I kind of see in that very similar way where it's like, this is an easy win, easy something to do, and then it will create other opportunity for you. Because the phone is essentially your connectivity into this world. It's no longer really the desktop. You know, for most people, the phone is where they're getting their information and where they're spending most of their time, you know, so if you can turn that for good over time, then, you know, I think it's a win. Win.
- [39:11]
Justin
Yeah. Incremental progress. I talk about it all the time, right? If this little hundred dollars a month can help you move forward, pay your bills, do little things, and that can create some more certainty, confidence to go out, do other things, then everyone's winning because they're focusing on the smaller little incremental progresses along the way. Just like you mentioned the military, right? Like that little win in the morning at 5am to tuck in your bed and make it all neat is a little win to start your day off, right, so that you can go win the rest of the day, right? And so people need to know about this. I'm so happy that you are on my podcast right now. Where do they need to go? Who do they need to follow? Where, where should they all find Earn Mode Mobile and then earnphone and everything else?
- [39:51]
Dan Novias
Yeah, I mean, I would encourage them to check out our website@invest.mobile.com that'll have kind of like the breakdown of everything I've gone into, along with a ton of infographics and interesting content that people can kind of look into. Yeah, people can just shoot me an email. Danmo mobile.com or investmomobile.com I checked that one too, along with my investor relations and happy to answer any questions for people.
- [40:12]
Justin
That's awesome. Again, anyone out there, I think it's silly if you don't really consider something like that because again, $100 a month is gas money, whatever it may be to you. If you're already on your phone, you might as well get paid using your phone. And especially if you are out there struggling as a moment in time, then look into Earn Mobile. Follow up with Dan. Dude, I appreciate you being on this is. I'm going to see you on the news somewhere something cool is going to happen. Our boy Dan. Man, this is a really cool invention and you're going to be changing the world. I appreciate you, dude.
- [40:42]
Dan Novias
Thanks, Justin. Thanks for having us.
- [40:43]
Justin
All right, y'all, if this was cool and you think a couple people need to know about Earn Mobile or I'm Mode Mobile and EarnPhone and Dan, make sure you share this to your friends. We'll see you on the next episode. Peace.