← The Entrepreneur DNA
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We all do it.
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You have a night for yourself, but don't like the sound of the silence, so you turn on the TV just for the ambiance. It's a little trick that helps you feel like you've got company and aren't alone. And other insurers, well, they may make you feel alone, but when you switch to geico, you've got claims reps available around the clock, so whenever you need, you'll have people around to help. And let's turn on the washing machine just for good measure. Isn't that soothing?
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It feels good to have support. It feels good to geico.
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C
What is up the entrepreneur DNA welcome back to another incredible episode with an incredible guest. Before I get to her, as you know, the school community is out the Entrepreneur DNA School community driven by the advisors. Not me, the advisors. Just like this special lady I have in front of me who you will hear from. She is going to be teaching you on advertising, marketing budgets, ads in driving traffic. So go to school ads. S k-o l.com theentrepreneur DNA learn from these advisors is $25 a month. You can't afford not to be in it if you're growing your business. So today I have with me Molly Lopez. She is the founder of Sparrow Marketing Agency. She actually helps businesses small, medium and or large have the same type of quality in marketing in advertising that the big businesses with multi six figure budgets have. Welcome to the show.
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B
Thank you so much for having me. I am pumped and excited to be here.
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C
I am too. Talk to us about the power of advertising and why all businesses need to need to lead into marketing and advertising.
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B
Yeah, so part of the impetus of why I started my marketing agency about seven years ago now, I was working at what's now the biggest independent marketing firm in South Florida as a director and we had a really cool roster of clients. I worked with a lot of, you know, household name brands. We were working with Royal Caribbean, Sandals Resorts, a bunch of the big hospitality brands, Lennar, which if you're in South Florida, those are all like, you know, the big players here. And it was cool, you know, we had hundred thousand dollar multimillion budgets and access to our, the latest and greatest tools. And I also at the time part of my role included like screening the new business calls that would come into the agency and, and I would talk to business owners who you know, had a really cool food and beverage product they were trying to launch or a tech startup or you know, like a mom and pop law firm. And we would get into a conversation about pricing and nine times out of 10, you know, that person would be priced out of working with that agency and what we were doing. And I just kind of had this thought of like, man, all of these like smaller and middles market, you know, businesses need the caliber of what we're doing here and like need the power of digital marketing behind them. And I could do what I'm doing, you know, in this fancy agency really like with my laptop on my couch and make this so much more accessible for people. And so that was a big reason like why I started and you know, it's proven to be a great business model for me. And we've been able to help dozens and dozens of businesses scale starting out with very little, you know, sometimes no more than a thousand dollars a month.
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C
And it could be that little.
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B
It can be that little. It really can be that little.
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C
What could, what should be the proper expectation if it is? And I understand, listen, most businesses shouldn't just go into the deep end, right? You don't want to just say okay, well I have ten grand to spend. So I'm going to spend ten grand. Right. But let's just talk about the person that literally is like, I'm on a shoestring budget, I have $1,000 a month. What should the proper expectations for the small business as $1,000 a month should be expecting when putting that into marketing?
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B
Yeah. So the analogy that I always love to use is if your audience is your bread, your media spend is your butter. So there's only a certain amount of like bread you can cover with a finite amount of butter. Right. Or it's going to be spread out too thin. So there's a lot of different ways that you can make that piece of bread smaller so that your media spend actually has an impact. So if you know, for example, if a law firm comes to us and they want to start a lead gen campaign and their budget is $1,000 a month, perfect. Well, you're probably not going to be able to target, you know, five different cities and six different practice areas with that budget. But if we start with one city and one practice area, can we, you know, take that thousand dollars a month and get you 10 really solid leads, you know, from that bad budget and then start to scale? Yeah. So really like, you know, while there is probably a minimum threshold, it really depends on who you're trying to target and, you know, just having your expectations in alignment of, of whatever your media spend is and kind of where you're starting out.
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C
Sparrow itself is more of a digital marketing agency. Or do you cover the whole spectrum?
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B
Yeah. So we are purely a digital agency, so probably like what you would consider in traditional advertising, like a media buying agency. But we also do social media, which is a broad umbrella of influencer marketing, community management, social growth, all those kind of things. Social content creation as well.
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C
So that's phenomenal.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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C
And then so you actually can lean into someone maybe like myself. Right. Has a presence. You say, hey Justin, I think you could do some things that with our agency we could really grow that presence. You'll actually help influencers, if you want to say that, grow their influence.
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B
So we don't work with individuals. So like I think personal branding is really its own beast and I have awesome people in my network that I refer to that. So our agency specializes in growing the brands and presences of like companies and entities that aren't tied to a single founder. So if you know you're trying to build a personal brand for, you know, you as Justin, that's one thing, that's one part of the game. And Then where we've really honed in our focus is for your actual like brand and company. So that's more where we're dialed in.
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C
What is the biggest mistake a small to medium sized business can make in the marketing space?
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B
Ooh, I think hiring a marketing agency too soon. So there is a lot of clients that we still turn down, specifically startups. Like a lot of startups will go out and you know, do a fundraise or they'll get their angel investment and all of a sudden they are sitting on, you know, half a million dollars million dollars in cash and they think that the like cheat code to launching a successful product or service or whatever it might be in the marketplace is cool. Let's go out and spend a bunch of money on ads, let's hire a marketing agency and like let's like do our go to market. But marketing is not a like band aid for bad product, bad market fit, bad fulfillment, bad customer service. Like all these different things that really have to be proven out before you like pour fuel on the fire. And I'd say the biggest mistake that I see is companies thinking, oh, if I just start running a bunch of ads, I'm going to get clients or I'm going to get customers before they've really taken the time to prove out the success of that company. So I always tell people like, sell to your friends, sell to your family, sell to the person next door. Like prove out that you've got a valuable business model. Like do everything in your power to generate growth and generate momentum without ads, without an agency. And if you can get success doing that, then bring in an agency partner, then bring in some marketing firepower and use that to expand, accelerate the success that you're already having. But if you skip that step and then you just like dive into cool. I have this great idea, I'm gonna go market it. Like proven recipe to crash and burn every time.
- [09:37]
C
What is the one thing a small to medium sized business does? What I wanna say is like, how are we bad clients if I run a small to medium sized business and you're like, okay, great, we're a good fit, let's move forward. How does a small to medium sized business become a bad client to you? With communication with, you know what their expectations are. How are we like bad that we need to make a shift so we can actually be a good client too?
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B
I love that question and the fact that like if you were my client asking that I would be like, you're already a great client because so few clients are actually thinking about the like 50% that they bring to the table. In an agency business like relationship, the number one thing is trust and expectations. Like, if you really believe in the work that your agency is doing, trust them. So that if you know, there's a month where leads are down and the agency is optimizing campaigns or whatever the case might be, like, hang in there and know that there's no such thing as overnight success. Like, there's no purple pill. Like, if I had that, like I'd be like on a yacht and you
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C
have a very large business not working.
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B
Exactly, exactly. So like any type of marketing takes time. There's no magic switch that I can just go flip on in Google or Meta or any platform and just poof, instantly get you success. Like there's a science and an art to it and there's testing, there's testing different tactics. Even the algorithms themselves. You know, so much of what we're doing now is driven by AI. Like a lot of the manual media buying that, you know, was how we did things for the past decade is being replaced by big data signals and AI and these algorithms. But even those algorithms aren't instantaneous. Like, they rely on feedback and data points from those campaigns in order to optimize those campaigns and reach your best customers. And that doesn't happen overnight, especially if you're working with small budgets. So if you, you know, chose the agency, you chose them for a reason, trust them, trust the process and know that, you know, the results aren't going to be instantaneous. You know, some of the best results that we've gotten for clients have come six, nine, even 12 months into our relationship where we've done all these foundational things and then you hit that point in the bell curve and it starts paying off exponentially.
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C
All, all businesses or industries probably could be different. So your, your answer may not be easy to answer, but give me the best you can to boilerplate the answer. What would be the proper expectation going into our relationship? Say, hey, I want you to run my ads, I want you to be my agency. What is the proper length expectation? And then what would be the proper result type of expectation? Again, bearing, you know, industries can be different and then why I would be hiring you might be different depending upon the sector, but time and spend. What are the proper expectations? As a blanket answer, would you recommend?
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B
Yeah, so I always say three to six months. Like three months to start seeing.
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C
I don't even think three months is. I say six.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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C
It's really like you Might be able to move the needle on three, but
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B
really, like I always say, three for traction, six for optimization. So, like, three months is like, where you should start seeing some progress. Right? Like, the phone should be ringing. You should be getting. If it's lead gen, you should be getting at least some leads. They might not be home run leads, but you're getting leads, Right. Phone's ringing, forms are being filled out. If we're not there in three months, that's like a. That's a red flag for. For me internally, you know, like, hey, what's. Is this the wrong audience that we're targeting? Is this the wrong channel? Like, that's kind of a signal of like, okay, we need to make a big pivot.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And then I always say six months to feel like, okay, you know, not only is the phone ringing, but I'm answering the phone and like, oh, my gosh, I just talked to someone who would be a perfect client, you know, or like, if it's E commerce, okay, I'm, you know, climbing out of that, like, break even point. And I'm starting to see, you know, 1.5 to 2.5 ROAS. So that's typically what we tell people. But of course, it depends where you're starting from too, right? Like, if you're starting out with, you know, a shitty website and like a bunch of foundational stuff that we have to fix, that can, of course, add on to that timeline.
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C
If I had a $50,000 budget today, right now, to go put into an agency and say, I'm ready to grow, where are you going to spend it? What platform? And then what platforms are you avoiding?
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B
Totally depends on what kind. What kind of business are you?
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C
Okay, yeah, I like that industry because like I said, I'm trying to make it where everyone can gather. But the reality is what you do is very specific to the industry.
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B
Yeah.
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C
So, well, let me just say. So if I wanted to grow this podcast, as an example, said, I want to go do awareness for the podcast.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Because part of the podcast is this community that you just heard about, the school community, which will drive people in to learn from the advisors like yourself. Right. If I say, I have 50 grand right now ready to go, I want to grow the brand, grow the podcast, grow the listening, because that will lead into going to the community, and I have 50 grand right now, where would you be spending the money on what platforms? Where are you going to avoid it?
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B
Yeah. So for that specifically, I would say YouTube is going to be a gold mine for you specifically. YouTube shorts. If you're not utilizing YouTube shorts yet, this is like the like hot ticket.
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C
This is the gold, people.
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B
Listen, right now YouTube shorts is kind of like if you guys remember like how TikTok exploded during the pandemic and it was super easy to rack up views, like you could almost literally just like post anything on TikTok. And it was so new and there were so few users that it's like you rack up thousands of views like that. Now it's not so easy, right? Like, like now it's super oversaturated and it's, it's attention deficit like everything else. But YouTube Shorts is, I feel like that next platform specifically if your audience like leans like male, so where like Instagram skews a little more female, YouTube short skews a little more male. It's kind of like Instagram reels for men. So I am a big fan of investing in YouTube ads specifically like YouTube shorts. Right. I also think another like dark horse that a lot of people are overlooking is Reddit, especially in the business community. I think that like, as our, you know, timelines become more full of like overly produced, overly branded content, like it's really like driving people into Reddit and into kind of more of these like community based platforms where people feel like I can find real advice and authentic advice and so having a presence in Reddit, advertising in Reddit. The ads in Reddit are like extremely, extremely like native. And so I don't know, it's less intrusive. But I think that's a great way to connect with the business community and then X as well. And like advertising on X right now is dirt cheap. So I would probably for this like scenario include that in the media mix as well.
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C
What about. So I didn't know Reddit. A lot of you do ads. I don't know anything about Reddit, I'm not even on Reddit. But you can actually do ads in the same way you can for YouTube, Google, Facebook, same, same stuff.
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B
Yep, yep. And you can target things contextually. So like based on conversations, people are having threads that you want to show up in and programmatically based on, you know, what their platform knows about their users as well.
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C
That seems like it would be specifically for me. That actually seems like in this general question that actually would be very useful because I'm sure there's a lot of business style questions that are in Reddit and the entrepreneur DNA and people like yourself as advisors, they're like, I need help. And then they look up marketing and Then they hear this episode and next, you know, it's. They reach out to you.
- [17:54]
B
Exactly. Yeah. Reddit is really a gold mine, not only for reaching people, because it's become, you know, the go to place where people are trying to find answers. Like, you know, if you look at your Google search history, probably in just the past week, like so many of my searches now on like da da da da da Reddit, like, I specifically want to see, like, what are people talking about on Reddit about this? Because I don't want just like a canned or sponsored answer. Yeah. So not only, like running ads there, but also, like, we're getting a lot of source material for our advertising from Reddit. So, like, what are the pain points that people in XYZ industry are talking about right now? Like, what are the challenges that business owners or, you know, potential customers are facing with XYZ product? Um, it's just such a good, like, raw breeding ground for that kind of inspiration and like, real having a real pulse on your audience.
- [18:48]
C
Yeah. What are you avoiding? What, what is over saturated? What is not performing as well? Again, your answer might be industry specific, but maybe come up with an industry in your head, like, what is not performing the way it used to in the advertising space.
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B
Yeah. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say not really a limb, but we do a lot of influencer marketing. But I'm gonna say, like, influencer marketing, I think is really changing or more so and better said, brands need to rethink how they're approaching influencer marketing. You know, if you think back to, like, again 10 years ago, 2016, 16ish, influencer marketing was like king. Right. Like, Kim Kardashian could post a single product and then has like $100 million valuation like overnight, or, you know, all
- [19:45]
C
of these ball and all the Paul brothers, and they would just literally explode a brand.
- [19:51]
B
Exactly, exactly. And I think that that's still there for, like, celebrity brands, but I think that a lot of, like, the I'm gonna get an influencer to post about my product and then instantly get sales from it is gone. Because we've been so desensitized to it. Right. Like, we are used to having these products, like, pushed to us. Even if it's like a creator, an influencer that we love, the minute we recognize, like, oh, this person is like, selling me this product, like, swipe, skip. Like, it's just really difficult to get kind of like those flash in the pan moments out of influencer marketing anymore. And so what we've been advising our clients and kind of dialing in on is more like using influencers to create the content. Right. So like, forget about their reach. Forget about, like, oh, when they posted it, it got so many engagements or I got so many, you know, clicks to my website. Those days are gone. But this influencer talking about my product, if I can capture that asset, it's short form, video carousel, post, whatever the case might be, then blow that out with paid advertising where, you know, my CPMs are still great and the ROI is going to be great. That's where I think the real value of influencer marketing now is, is more like capture the third party endorsement, blow it out on your own channels. Because, you know, consumers were just so desensitized to influencers, like pushing products at us. It's, it's, it's not the game that it used to be.
- [21:32]
C
You use the word celebrity, which I think is very poignant right now. I think everyone is an Instagram celebrity at this point. Right. Like there are celebrities and then there are influencers.
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B
Yeah.
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C
I think societies need to start differentiating between the two. Kim Kardashian is a celebrity at this point right now. She's influential because people look up to her, women look up to her. And she has literally created a, you know, millions of girls that try to look like her. Right? Yeah, she's created a whole industry, I feel like. But the influential side of it is, I think, something that people can still lean into. How do you actually offer value to the marketplace? You come from big business advertising and marketing. Right. I believe, and I want your opinion on this, I believe the thing that they need to lean into a little bit more. I think they've historically always leaned into celebrities. Right. They go hire Tom Brady and you know, some insurance company now has Tom Brady being their spokesperson. Fine. They pay Tom. Tom does it, whatever. How do you bring someone that can be influential in the space of that business and create value to the marketplace rather than just the celebrity they're marketing? That, I think is where I would hire an agency like you because I believe my brand is important as a company. But who's the person? In my case, it would be me. That like, can be the value, the, the influential person. Does that make sense? Are people leaning into that? Are businesses, small businesses, leaning into that or leaning away from that?
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B
I think a lot of smaller businesses don't know where to start with that. Right. Like, I think like everything, you know, we just talked about, like, oh, Tom Brady or whether it's, you know, Alex, Earl, Or Kim Kardashian, like, feels so out of reach. I don't think people are thinking about it that way. Like on a micro level of like, who in my space do I actually have access to and have the ability to connect with who can be influential? Um, so I actually, I really like how you put it of like, how can small and mid sized businesses do this? And like, no, you're not going to be able to go out and get Tom Brady. But even like if you're a local business, you know, is there someone who's a local podcaster, local newscaster, you know, maybe not like someone who is publicly facing influential, but who has the network of people that you're trying to access behind the scenes, you know, even like us sitting down doing this podcast. How can you connect with influencers in your space and leverage that to your advantage without thinking in terms of like, you know, oh, celebrity, like it's this or nothing, right?
- [24:26]
C
Well, I, so I want to lean into the popular topic AI, because yeah, it's everywhere. So are marketing agencies becoming obsolete with the power of AI Now?
- [24:38]
B
I would say that we are in this very kind of eye of the storm moment for marketing agencies where it is a very, very unique and profitable and opportunistic stick or, you know, a window of opportunity. Because here's how the industry works, right? Like marketing agencies are always going to move faster than in house marketing teams and clients, right? Like we have more tools, more people, we're 100% laser focused on one thing, which is marketing, right? So I would say that like, for instance, like my team, our use of AI and integration of AI into our marketing workflows is probably like two or three years like ahead of where most of our clients are. And that works to our advantage because we're able to get more done. Higher quality outputs, same amount of people power, same amount of time. But like, I don't want to say like our clients are none the, none the wiser because it's not like it's not transparent. Like, it's not like, oh, we're, you know, doing these like things like deceptively, but like we're leveraging all these amazing AI tools and providing the value back to our clients because our clients just aren't there yet. Like in terms of the like technological edge. I think in a couple years that that's, that gap is going to close where internal marketing teams and brands are going to have those tools directly at their fingertips. And I think it is going to put a lot of pressure on marketing agencies. I don't think that the agency model is going to become obsolete because, you know, everyone has used this analogy, but it's like, you know, even you have the invention of the car, but somebody still has to drive it. Right. Like, there's still going to be a need for that human element of strategy and direction and creating the inputs that are going to create the outputs. But is it going to put pressure on the agency space? 100%. Right. Like, you know, oh, hey, we don't need to pay the agency to build that landing page. You know, I can just put into a prompt into, you know, Claude or Chat or Adobe and you know, within minutes have, have the landing page. So brands are going to catch up to that. And that's something that, you know, like I'm very aware of and have been thinking about in my business of like, how do we future proof? How do we, you know, adopt technologies that are going to put us ahead of the game so that when that, you know, crunch comes, when that wave catches up to us, we're in a good position and you know, we're not gonna kind of be taken out by it.
- [27:25]
C
I'm sure it's a daily thought on top of your mind. Right. But where have you gotten so far? Like how do you become future proof? How do the marketing agencies become future proof? As at this moment in time, what is going through your head on how you can do that for yourself?
- [27:39]
B
Yep. So with an agency or any service based business model, right, like you're trading other people's time for money. That's the whole name of the game. So how do you create arbitrage? How do you create margin there? So there's really two things that we're focused on. One is integration of technology and automation. So how can we do the same things but faster and with less manpower, less hours? Right. So leveraging AI tools, whether that's, you know, within our project planning platforms, whether that's in our ad buying, our creative processes, using them smartly and when they make sense. I think there is definitely a case of like sometimes over reliance on, on AI, but letting AI do what it does best and amplify the outputs of what we're putting in and then also staffing. So we're in a really unique part of the country here in Miami. We have a ton of access to, to Latin America and that's been a huge boon for my agency is outsourcing and hiring team members from Latin America. So we actually have like a satellite office in Bogota where I've got my Media buyers and a bunch of really great marketers. Just like awesome, awesome talent, same time zone and definitely like, you know, cost of living.
- [29:08]
C
Yeah.
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B
Way less there. So it's, it's advantageous to kind of have the functions of my team that can be based in, in latam. In latam, it's a win, win.
- [29:19]
C
I think any industry is going to have this question, like, how do we make it through AI? I literally had a conversation yesterday where there's some AI coming out in the sales vertical and I think most sales people are like, oh, you can never really affect sales. Like it's always a personal business. And I listened to this whole thing and I said, oh my God, like salespeople are in trouble, like bad because it is a robot talking. Unless you genuinely know it's a robot, you might question it maybe like, is this AI, is it not? It was as good as I've ever heard anything. And I think even the sales industry is going to be in trouble here. Right. And so, so every, my point to that is every industry, like it doesn't matter what you do, minus as a moment in time, essentially, like maybe a home builder, you're probably pretty safe this second. But you know, the, the financial industries where you're getting crushed. So I, I asked that because I think any industry that can offer value to the clientele and when I say value, I mean, how do you become cheaper without sacrificing quality?
- [30:27]
B
Exactly.
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C
How do you become easier so I don't have to go deal with my internal marketing team and manage them and have to deal with people and their issues. Because as a small to medium sized business, hiring people, retaining people, managing people, dealing with their issues, they come in, they just broke up with their boyfriend or girlfriend, they're having a bet. Like I have to deal with that when I hire you. I don't, I say just let's get these ads rolling, let's get going. I don't have to deal with the bad day that's happening. Right. So how do you, the question always becomes, in my opinion regarding AI, how if you're a service based industry, how do you offer the service at a less, a lower price, but offer, don't waver on your value that you offer. And I think in your world, I think you kind of, to your first answer, you're kind of in an opportunistic zone. Right. You're actually able to leverage a lot of this AI. I run a marketing business through podcasting and social media.
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B
Yeah.
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C
I do not spend all my time looking at AI and deal with AI. It is why companies like you exist. I don't have more time to do that. Right. So I think people need to reframe. Like, should I hire an agent? Do you have time to do it yourself? And then are you going to be nearly as good and putting in 12 hours a day working it versus Sparrow? And that's the question that really needs to be asked.
- [31:45]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And. And this is nothing new. Like, we've been through this before, right, where like, you know, it used to be you had to know HTML and you had to know code to build a website. And then, you know, WordPress and Squarespace and Wix and Webflow and Duda and all these platforms come along and suddenly anybody can build a website. But do you have the time to do that? And is the output going to be as good as if you hire somebody else to do it? Right. And it's going to be like that with AI, just to an accelerated degree. Right. But that question or that need is always going to be there for sure. From a lot of brands of, yeah, maybe I could build this website with AI, maybe I could generate these ad creatives from AI, but do I even have the time to do that? Or do I even know, like, like, what does good look like, you know, like, I could do this and it could suck. Like, am I qualified to evaluate the outputs, even if I can do the inputs?
- [32:51]
C
And just because it's there doesn't mean you should. Right? I mean, just like anything, like I can, is it even good? And I don't want good. I want great. I want someone like, you can go to a doctor if your heart has murmurs, but if you're gonna have heart surgery, do you want to just go to any surgeon or do you want to go to a heart surgeon?
- [33:08]
B
Right, exactly.
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C
Like, any surgeon might be able to fix your heart issue, but, you know, I want to go to an actual heart surgery. That's all they focus on, is.
- [33:16]
B
Yes.
- [33:17]
C
So talk to us about your clientele. I really want to lean into this idea because I believe in what you do. Right. So if you're out there contemplating, like, should I be looking into an agency? I definitely want you to reach out to Molly. And first of all, where can they find you? What platform? Where should they go to find you? Molly. To find sparrow, the whole nine yards.
- [33:34]
B
Yeah. So. Sparrowmarketing.com Sparrowmarketing.com Easy peasy. Reach out there. You can always follow me on social media too, Ollie Katherine Lopez. And yeah, I'd be happy to connect with you, we focus on six kind of core industries, which is still very broad. We're not like a one trick pony, one niche agency, which a lot of great agencies are. You know, they just do home services or they just do coaching, or they just do whatever.
- [34:01]
C
Right.
- [34:03]
B
So we do commercial real estate. So we work with like a lot of, like, real estate developers, commercial real estate brokerages, hospitality and destination. So shopping centers, restaurants, malls, that sort of thing. Legal law firms love law firms. Love them, love them. Almost became an attorney. Really glad I didn't. But now I get to work with them, so that's always fun. Medical, so like independent medical practices, surgical groups, even like bigger, like healthcare companies or like med tech and then finance. So fintech, financial services, investment firms, banks, that sort of thing.
- [34:41]
C
Now, some of these companies, small to medium, like law firms, tend to be medium to large. Like, how. How do you. What do you qualify in terms of the size of scope? Because, right, you come from big business, right, you come from these really large companies. How do you justify, like, what's your qualifier for, like, are you the right type of client for Sparrow?
- [35:01]
B
Yeah. So, I mean, we've worked with law firms like Greenberg Trig, which is one of the biggest, huge platforms in the world, down to, like, unfortunately, I know them.
- [35:10]
C
That sucks.
- [35:10]
A
But whatever.
- [35:11]
B
Yeah, all the way down to, like, solo practitioners. We're helping a law firm scale right now. That's just, you know, one guy, but he's in a really interesting space where there's a lot of growth opportunity and, you know, through the tactics that we have, we're able to help him capture that. So I think it comes down to just, you know, what is your business model, the type of clients that you're targeting, and with the tools that we have in our toolkit, are we the best partner to help you? And if the answer is yes and
- [35:42]
C
it's a go, then let's use the this example. So I'm curious. I'm not a marketing agency in the way you are, but I really lean into marketing as why I built this podcast is to be able to become a marketing platform for all of my guests. Right. If I'm a solo lawyer looking to build my law firm as an advisor, if he came to me and said, justin, what should I do? Not having the expertise of you, I'd say I need you to become the brand because people will hire your firm because of you, versus the last name pllc, which I don't even know who you're talking about. But, like, they always have a last Name pllc.
- [36:22]
B
Right, Exactly.
- [36:24]
C
And so my suggestion is you need to lean into your personal brand as heavy as anything right now. You, you can do brand marketing for awareness of the law firm, but people need to know you and buy into you and they will hire the firm. Right. Are you, seems like you're in agreement. What was your advice with this individual?
- [36:44]
B
Yeah, so there's kind of two different avenues that we're taking with this particular person. One, we're sitting down and we're making thought leadership style social media content for him on behalf of the firm and putting that out there so people, you know, see his face, hear his voice, hear his expertise, like he's building that value before they even, you know, go to the website or pick up the phone. And then we're also doing Google Ads. So just like down and dirty, traditional lead generation, you know, people searching for an attorney in the very specific types of niches that he serves where there's not a ton of competition. Right. Like it's, it's one thing if like, you know, this is like a one man law firm. So as you can imagine, not a huge budget, but he's in a space where there's a ton of arbitrage and there's a ton of opportunity and we can do that. You know, if he were like a personal, personal injury lawyer, for instance, everywhere, everywhere you're going to be spending against behemoths, you know, like the Morgan and Morgans and the Anna Jar and Levines and it's like almost impossible to carve out a slice of that pie with traditional digital marketing tactics. But in another area that's you know, less saturated vertical, there might be a ton of Runway and we can help you take that, you know, with Google Ads, with meta ads, with whatever the case might be.
- [38:08]
C
So if you are a small, small to medium sized business trying to get it, carve out a slice of that, you know, market share against the behemoth in your space. What would be one or two strategies that you would suggest a small to medium sized business do
- [38:25]
B
that? It's, it's tough. It's, it's really tough. I would say like you almost have to come up with something that is going to really make you stand out from the pack. Like if you are serious about breaking in and like growing, like if you're for instance a personal injury attorney. Right. Super hard to differentiate, super competitive. You just have such established players that are going to outspend you hand over fist every single time. So like what can you do that's Totally out of the box. That's totally different. You know, it's like the Gary Vee starting a wine YouTube channel, like, back in the day. Like, it's like thinking of, like, what can I do? Is it a podcast? Is it a YouTube segment that I'm going to post every day? Is it like, a bit? Am I going to, like, put on a, you know, purple suit and go downtown in the streets of Miami and, like, interview people? Like, what am I going to do? Like, it almost kind of has to be something that's very different than, like, what everybody else is doing. If you want to capture that attention and, like, do that, you know, you just want to be another guy in a suit who's a personal injury attorney and go up against these guys, like,
- [39:48]
C
wish you the best to be my club.
- [39:50]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [39:51]
C
Yeah.
- [39:51]
B
Good luck.
- [39:52]
C
Because you would set yourself up for failure, right. Because at some point you're just gonna be like, I know, I'm not gonna break this if he's only gonna sit behind a desk in a suit with a red tie and say, call me. Right. Like, then Sparrow gets the.
- [40:03]
A
The.
- [40:03]
C
Oh, you couldn't do it.
- [40:05]
B
Exactly.
- [40:05]
C
I'm saying. So I love what you're saying here because you're also kind of answering the other part that I previous said. You would have to really lean into your personal brand there.
- [40:15]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:16]
C
And make it not about the firm and how you're going to be able to let us go, you know, get the insurance money for you.
- [40:23]
B
But there's nothing you can say that the other guys aren't already saying and amplifying 10 times louder because they have the budget to do it.
- [40:29]
C
Right. But what they don't do, at least I don't see it, they don't go Instagram real, like, yeah. Educational, influential. Interview other people, their experience. What do you think about the. The angle if you are trying to beat the big guy? Like, talk them like, hey, are you tired of the big companies just trying to get business because of the big company? I'm gonna actually hold your hand and get this done because I'm not the big company. And minimize yourself in a respectful, value driven way to say, I. I'll give you the value of not becoming a big behemoth and I'm going to work with you to make sure that you get everything you deserve.
- [41:06]
B
Yeah. 100%. I love that. And I think that, like, there's fewer people than you would expect who are really willing to, like, go out on a limb and, like, do something that's going to be groundbreaking and kind of like ruffle some feathers, you know, to like, to, to do that, you have to be willing to get some backlash and, like, you have to have the stomach for it. Yeah. I don't know if, you know, there's this company called Big Ass Fans if you've ever heard of it, but, like,
- [41:38]
C
I don't think so.
- [41:39]
B
Yes.
- [41:39]
C
And they're just the box fans, right?
- [41:41]
B
They're. They make these huge fans. They're literally, I think, yeah, super successful company. They're based in Lexington, Kentucky, where I used to live. So I actually know a bunch of people who work there, but follow them on social media. I love their branding. I love their whole spiel and like, that's their whole thing. They were like, we're just gonna call, like, what do we do? We make big ass fans. Okay. We're gonna call this company Big Ass Fans. Every week they literally get letters from people being like, I would never buy from your company because of this crude language that's in your name. And, you know, and then they make a bit out of it and they like, you know, photograph it and they like hang it on the wall or they post it on social media, like, oh, you know, Brenda from Arkansas doesn't like the fact that we're called big ass Fans and she's never gonna buy from us. So you kind of have to have that mentality of like, this might not be for everyone, but like, I'm willing to put myself out there and like, really stand out.
- [42:35]
C
I think in, in. We'll leave it here, but I think everyone needs to put themselves out there. What are you doing right now as we're shooting this podcast? What is Molly Lopez doing? Yeah, Molly is on a podcast, being introduced as Molly that she is the founder of Sparrow. But you are leaning into your personal brand to get the message out there that there is a company, Sparrow, that can do marketing, advertising for small to medium sized businesses with the quality of the big business without having the spend of the business. Like, you're doing it. You're literally in the middle of doing what I believe to be the biggest differentiator.
- [43:10]
B
Yeah. This is something I've wrestled with for a long time. Like, even though, like half my career is built on social media, I have such a love hate relationship with social media. And I think that there's probably a lot of entrepreneurs out there who can relate to this, who are like, but I don't want to be the face of my brand. I don't want to put myself out there. And that can be for all different types of reasons. I think for mine, like, my Achilles heel is I'm a perfectionist. And so, like, even on my way here this morning, I was like, crap, I didn't have time. I didn't blow out my hair. My hair is gonna look a mess or whatever. But like, just embracing the messy progress of it and being like, okay, well, you know, like effort. I'm just, I'm gonna show up, I'm gonna do it anyway and I'm gonna, like, make progress on this. I've really had to get over that and like, be like, you know what? No, I just, I need to put myself out there. So whether it's like a, you know, like a, I think like whether it's like false humility, like, oh, I don't want to be the spotlight of my brand, or like perfectionism or just like fear of the spotlight, I, you know, work with a bunch of entrepreneurs who are just like, I hate being on camera. I hate, you know, whatever the case, you know, I hate doing podcasts. I don't want to, I don't want to do that. That's not me. I think you're, you're so right. Like personal branding, it's, it's really important, especially in like, service based industries. You know, like, you're going to go buy a couch. I don't really care that much about the founder of that couch company. You know, like, what is, what is he? Like, whatever. But if it's going to be someone that, like, I'm working with and I'm the thing, I'm buying from them. Like you, you know, if it's like your, your mastermind or, you know, your school community. I'm buying into Justin's expertise and his ability to provide value to me. I want to know about him. Yeah, I want to know about his character, I want to know about his experience. I want to make sure, you know, what I'm getting is legit. So especially for service based businesses and entrepreneurs, I think that it's really important. And this is the year. This is honestly like the first year that I feel like I'm like, okay, I just need to go balls to the walls on this and like, execute and you know, like, post, do the podcast, do the interviews, do the press. I think like, the thing that, like, I come back to that helps me is like, well, if I don't like, somebody else who's like, less qualified is going to go take that megaphone and get their voice out there and like, that could have been me. And I probably would give better advice or I probably would, you know, provide more value. So yeah, like don't downplay yourself. Put yourself out there.
- [45:48]
C
Good for you.
- [45:48]
B
Just do it.
- [45:49]
C
As you guys are watching, listen, she's doing exactly what she would be telling you to do. So reach out to Molly Lopez. Go to Sparrow. What's the website again?
- [45:56]
B
Sparrow marketing.com and Molly. Your handle is Molly Catherine Lopez. It's kind of long, but you'll find me if you, if you look and there's not many Molly Lopez's in the world.
- [46:06]
C
And then look for Katherine in the middle and make sure you give her a follow. Make sure you let her know you heard her here. If you're a small to medium sized business, I've been marketing now for almost two decades. Make sure you're working the right person. I appreciate being on.
- [46:19]
B
Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome.
- [46:21]
C
Yeah. If this was helpful or if you think someone you know needs to talk to Molly and get a hold of Sparrow, please share this with these two of your friends. We'll see you on the next episode. Peace.
- [46:31]
A
When I scraped my car in that parking garage, I was worried that it could be a long process to take care of it. Like a landscaper's first day trimming a hedge maze.
- [46:39]
C
I have definitely already been here. Now, was it left right or right left? Well, maybe I'll cut a path out and find my way back later.
- [46:51]
A
But it wasn't like that. I filed a claim in under two minutes on the Geico app and they handled it from there. It was taken care of almost as quickly as it happened.
- [46:58]
C
It feels good to get help quick.
- [47:00]
A
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- [48:35]
C
Thank you for listening.