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The Entrepreneur DNA
The Gift of Humility: How Josh Block Led a $215M Exit Without an Ego | Josh Block
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- [00:00]
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- [01:30]
Justin Colby
What is up the Entrepreneur DNA family. You are going to want to make sure you pay attention to this because this guy is incredible. But as always, my guest that I'm introducing will be an advisor to the entrepreneur DNA community. He can teach you his skill set. So if you're not yet in that community, go to skool.coms k o o l.com forward/the entrepreneur DNA and you'll be able to learn from the people that I bring in as advisors to myself and all of you. Check it out. School.com forward/the entrepreneur DNA. Now this guest, you will want to learn from him because at 29 years old, he was thrust into the role of, yes, president of his family company doing roughly $30 million a year. And then he was able to bring that into an astronomical number that they had an incredible exit and he did it with people. First, Josh Block is here. How are you friend?
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Josh Block
I'm doing great. It's good to be with you, Justin.
- [02:27]
Justin Colby
Yeah. Your story is incredible. I don't think there's a lot of people that understand the weight of being 29 and being thrust into president not just like, you know, they were going to Give you a nice little title, but like, literally, here's the entire company. Josh, go get it.
- [02:42]
Josh Block
Yeah.
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Justin Colby
What was that moment like for you?
- [02:45]
Josh Block
Yeah, I mean, it was a oh my, like it was my oh my moment. And at the same time, while it's a unique story, becoming the apex leader, I would say that lots of people are promoted unexpectedly, that they study accounting or they study finance or IT or hr, whatever it is, they become an expert. They're really good at that, pretty productive, efficient, they work well with others, and then bingo, they're named leader. And so whether you're president of the company or director of IT or manager of hr, it is pretty common for people to be unexpectedly promoted. Or maybe it's better to say they're ill equipped when they're promoted.
- [03:24]
Justin Colby
Now, let's review the numbers again. The company was doing what when you took the helm?
- [03:29]
Josh Block
Yeah. So it was 30 million in revenue and my dad was, was the founder, and so it was doing 30 million. And I would say that from an EBITDA perspective, it was, it was a fairly low performing company.
- [03:43]
Justin Colby
And then you were able, in 15 years, you were able to build the company up with the people first mentality to have an actual exit.
- [03:52]
Josh Block
Yeah, so we, we're about 215 million today. And we were acquired two and a half years ago by a joint venture and we're really proud of that structure is that Siemens Health and Ears, who's one of the largest equipment and healthcare providers in the radiology space as it relates to us specifically. And then Common Spirit Health is the largest Catholic hospital system in America. And so they came together and purchased Block Imaging, which has allowed us to have a board of directors, both a OEM and a healthcare provider. And so the synergies between our three organizations are pretty remarkable. Yeah.
- [04:30]
Justin Colby
If you're out there, you're an aspiring entrepreneur, you're a growing entrepreneur, you're at the point of scale. Make sure you're listening to this man. He has literally been through it right now. A little more unique, where he didn't have to launch the company, but he had to take something from a $30 million revenue with not a great EBITDA into a place of are you able to share kind of where you took it in 15 years? What did it turn into?
- [04:49]
Josh Block
I'll just, I'll just say that that EBITDA scaled much faster than revenue. So it's really, because, I mean, revenue, as you and I talked about a little bit before the show, it's, it's maybe a sex appeal number but ultimately, what the health of a business is really what we're talking about with the bottom line. What, what, what kind of a cash profitability. And so I'll just say that we were a stronger and healthier company at 215 million than we were at 30 million.
- [05:16]
Justin Colby
Well, and that was the number I was trying to pull out of you there is the 215. Right. I mean, in 15 years, brother, you did a hell of a job to go from 30 million to 215. Right. You almost 10x the entire business. Almost. Right. 8x or whatever it is. So now what I think a lot of people need to stay on this episode for is because the, the growth in scale to an exit is a unique circumstance. And Josh is quite literally by definition, someone who has the expertise through going through it, the resume, by going through it to actually share with us. And so, Josh, I would. My first question here is going to be what is the major. I don't want to say fault, but do too many people focus on just the sexy number of revenue but allow their business to essentially fail?
- [06:00]
Josh Block
No, it's. I think that if revenue is the number that's talked about the most, I think that the next two numbers that are maybe more meaningful to me is net income is what's actually falling to the bottom line. And then where are we from a cash and debt perspective is that a lot of companies get really big and yet they're hemorrhaging cash or they're, they're not healthy from a net income perspective. And so, yeah, I'd say that those two numbers, if I was to anchor what we've really looked to grow over the last 15 years, it's been very limited focus on revenue and much more of a focus on net income and then cash position.
- [06:37]
Justin Colby
I think that's a leadership decision. Right. I think you can't do a whole lot without the leadership having that mindset. Sure. I talk a lot about, like a lot of times it's not even about the X's and O's, it's about the mindset that you go into it with what leaders, you know, what decisions do leaders tend to make that they might be thinking is the right decision or they're proud of the decision, but actually is more crippling to the company.
- [06:58]
Josh Block
Yeah. I mean, what a leader chooses to focus on matters a ton. And for me, that's been an organizational identity centered on people and creating a culture where people love to work. Because not only do I believe in the value of people, but when people are Cared for. They bring ownership to the table. They actually treat the company like it's their own. And so I would say that what a leader chooses to focus on, and oftentimes probably the biggest mistake is focus on too many things, is like a sprinkler head that's, you know, shooting water all over the driveway and the parking lot and all that sort of stuff versus, like, what are the few things that we're really good at? What are the businesses that we're focused? And for us, we've, we've always been in imaging. So we were in equipment, then we were in imaging parts, then we were in imaging service, and then we were in mobile imaging. So mobile MRIs and CT scanners is. We don't, we don't own a Taco Bell. And we're not in the. My dad used to be in the coffee business. We're not in a coffee business. We, we. We're not in the sports space. And, and so I think being really honest about the business you're in, and then if I were to tag along, I think that sometimes people choose. They call businesses what are actually hobbies. And, and so there, there are things I'm passionate about. I really like to ski. I really like to play golf, I really like to wake surf. And I'm in the healthcare space. It's, it's where we're, we're really, we're good. We have lots of capabilities. We're passionate about the healthcare space, and it also drives the economic engine, like Jim Collins talks about.
- [08:30]
Justin Colby
Yeah. You know, it is. A lot of people say, focus on your passion. And I don't necessarily fully adopt or agree to that. Not, not when you're running a business because your passions tend to fluctuate depending upon the season you're in.
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Josh Block
Sure.
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Justin Colby
Right. Like, you love to ski. You go build a ski company of some sort, but then all of a sudden you rupture your ac. You don't get to ski anymore. You're not a ski coach. I'm just using examples like, sure, sure. Circumstance, circumstances change. But building a foundational business for actual net profit versus revenue is really important. And just like, you know, you talked about people first. Right? People matter. It's really on your shirt. It's quite literally the sign behind your head. If you guys aren't watching this on YouTube, talk to us about, like, building a culture. Right? Like, it is great to be able to be a leader and say, oh, we hit our financial goal. And to some extent the rah rah can build culture. But you know what. What are leaders doing that actually is breaking their culture instead of building it? And they don't even recognize that.
- [09:32]
Josh Block
Yeah, it's a great question. I think that people, A lot of leaders are focused on the productivity of people, which is certainly important, but they're. They're focused on what they can get out of them versus seeing them as whole people. And so that our work and life has never been more integrated than it is today, that we have people taking service calls all hours of the day, and we have people bringing work with them. Right.
- [09:57]
Justin Colby
Yeah.
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Josh Block
And so. And bringing home to the workplace. And so I would just say that, like, seeing people as whole people, that focusing and being aware of what's going on in their personal life, what are their challenges? And I'm not. I'm not saying being a nib nose, but I'm saying being aware of what's important to people. And in many cases, that's both their work and their life and their families.
- [10:18]
Justin Colby
Nib knows, by the way, just so I've never even heard that term before. What does that even mean?
- [10:23]
Josh Block
Nib knows A stick in your nose. I'm not looking to invade people's personal space. I mean, it's not. It's not about unearthing that. It's putting your nose where it doesn't belong. Rather, I think of, like, really knowing. I just signed 150 books for team members last week, and it's just so fun to stand at a table and ask them about their families and about their kids and about their. Their son's soccer games and those sorts of things. Just really, really important to people. And I think when we see them as human beings rather than as human doings, some really beautiful things happen. Relationships are formed, and I think transformation takes place in both a business and a community.
- [11:02]
Justin Colby
Now, you took over at 29. Right. And I would argue a lot of people at your. I don't even know this, but I would assume a lot of people at your company were older than you, have gone through more life experiences. How do you become a great leader with. With people first, people matter and lead into that without the same type of life resume that maybe some of your people have. How did you do that at 29? That really made a big impact.
- [11:25]
Josh Block
Yeah, it was there. There's a chapter in the book People Matter at Work that's called the Gift of Humility. And while I didn't necessarily see it as a gift at the moment, and Jim Collins, again, he talks about it in good to great. Looking back, not like not knowing so much actually turned out to be a gift that the imposter syndrome of like or this belief that I need to know everything, like having such a gap between what others knew and what I knew led me into humility, that led us into working together and it just built a team in a really powerful way.
- [12:01]
Justin Colby
Yeah. Is, is there a way that you, you know, literally tactical. Did you have a strategy? Like I want to have meetings every week, one on one. I want to bring people out to community building events once a month. What were some of the things that you were focusing on to build this culture? Which again the reason why I'm asking and leaning into this. There's no world where you bring a company from 30 million a year to 215 without using people as the point of focus versus just saying we need to spend more money and convert more leads. Right. Like whatever that case is, people have to be the focus. So again, going back to that question, like were you structured in how you were communicating meeting or structuring meetings to pour into the people?
- [12:48]
Josh Block
Yeah, one on ones are crucial. I just, I don't know how someone can lead people without having consistent one on ones. And I love that that becomes a parameter. If you have to have one on ones, whether it be weekly, bi weekly, I would say every four weeks is an absolute minimum. If you can't meet with all your people in that frequency, we have too many direct reports like so whatever that number needs to be. I think probably seven in most cases is probably a max. But I'd say one on ones are really, really important. The second is we have a company wide meeting every third Thursday of the month that everyone participates. So today that's 200 in here in Lansing, Michigan and then that's 200 spread around the world. And so that's a company wide meeting where we're pretty transparent. And then the last piece, outside of those like formative meetings, the all team meeting and the one on one and team meetings, things like that. I would say that just being accessible like you are, it doesn't take long to spend time in someone's office and realize whether they're an open door leader or a closed door leader. And so like just being accessible that if you need help, if you have a question, if you're concerned about something, I am here with you and I'm not kind of tucked away and hidden in a corner office.
- [13:58]
Justin Colby
Yeah. What do you think is a better strategy in your expertise? Right. You built something incredible with an exit that do you need to be more vulnerable and transparent. You use the word transparency, right? Do we want to show our. Whether it's an executive team, our leaders, our management, like the true numbers, do we want to refrain from that? Do you think there's a point of leadership that says, hey, I want to show you what we go through, I want to show you. Or do you want to just kind of lead with a carrot and lead with gratitude and lead with, you know, making sure they feel loved, or do you want to expose it?
- [14:35]
Josh Block
We, we. We think information's power, and I talk about it. And people matter at work that some people start with, like, how little can I give these people to get them to do what I need them to do? The other is how much can I share with them so that then they can take ownership for the outcome of the organization? And so we only keep a few things private. There's people's performance information, people's health care, anything that's kind of confidential to their own journey here at Block Imaging. Then the second thing is something that's legal. We have some confidentiality agreement or whatever it is. And then the last is owner's box information. There's some shareholder information over the years that just wasn't for public consumption. Other than that, we are very, very maximum in our pursuit of transparency. Is that just share early and often. And that ranges from what's going on in the company all the way across to performance feedback. That if I have feedback for you, the only gap between me telling you and me thinking about it is just processing how and when I'm going to share it with you. So it's. There's. There's like the. Once I think something about what's going on with you, and from a performance perspective, you are going to know it as soon as I possibly can communicate it, because I just think it honors people.
- [15:50]
Justin Colby
What about numbers? I mean, you know, yeah, we share.
- [15:53]
Josh Block
We share it all. So all of it.
- [15:54]
Justin Colby
Good. Once month. Hey, we. We lost money this month, guys. Like, our operational bloat was so heavy that you. We didn't hit it. We didn't hit the target.
- [16:03]
Josh Block
Like you share before the acquisition, we share after the acquisition, revenue, net income. And we ultimately share in relation to our target and in relation to where we were last year. And we think that if we had a bad month, we all contributed to it and we need to turn the ship together. If we had a good month, we all get to celebrate it. But we think that financial performance and people being aware of what's going on, including debt. There was a time we don't have debt today as an organization, but there was a time where we were maxed out on our credit line and we shared that. Hey, I don't know if it was 2.5 or $3 million in debt is we'd like to spend the next eight months getting out of debt. And guess what? People didn't just want to help. It actually led to them feeling more secure. So this idea of like hiding it for them from them. Yeah, they, they, when we said, hey, we're going to get out of debt as a company, they're cheering because they're like, we feel more secure when the company doesn't have debt.
- [16:58]
Justin Colby
I love that. I think, you know, especially in the small to medium sized businesses, more so in the small, I think there's almost a sense of fear. Like you don't want to tell everyone all the gruesome truth. Like we have a line of credit and you know, it's building and we're not quite covering our cost because we got it. There's that small fear level. How do you get over the fear? Like you want to generate in scale revenue but you don't also want to push fear into the culture? What's that fine line of being able to expose it but also not create fear but at the same time staying focused on increasing the revenue goal?
- [17:35]
Josh Block
Yeah, I mean, fear, ultimately you're, you're treating other people as you'd like to be treated. How many of you would like to work at a company for the next six weeks and not get paid and then have the owner go, oh, sorry, we just filed for bankruptcy and you're not going to, I mean, nobody would want to do that. And so why would you do something to people that you wouldn't want done to yourself? And so to me, it kind of comes down to a golden rule. And now, of course, when you share that we're maxed out in the credit line, you're expressing how we are going to get out of it. If it's a hopeless business and it's going to fall apart and everyone's going to leave, it's a little different story. And I don't know that I could advise you on that one right now. Yeah, I haven't had that experience myself.
- [18:17]
Justin Colby
Yeah, listen, I'm more of a lead with a carrot, not with a stick kind of guy.
- [18:21]
Josh Block
Sure.
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Justin Colby
I do believe there's cultures that are around the stick. Right. You know, cutting the fat of the organization and always have this fear of like, hey, if you don't perform.
- [18:33]
Josh Block
Sure.
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Justin Colby
You're going to be up next to the head, you're going to roll.
- [18:35]
Josh Block
Right.
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Justin Colby
That kind of fear level. Now I think what's your take in society right now? Do you think that that still is prevalent as it maybe has been in years past? Do you think we're, we're evening that out with the understanding of like people really do matter at your workplace? Like this shouldn't just be, they're not just a number. Or do you think there's still this sense of like these corporations that like, hey, we don't hit numbers, heads roll, it is what it is.
- [19:01]
Josh Block
Yeah, I think, I don't know if it always manifests itself in the heads rolling. In fact, I think sometimes we create cultures of fear but don't even act it out really. So it's kind of, that's another topic for another day. But I would say that when we think of carrot or stick and there are a couple challenges, the reason I wrote the book was because the Gallup statistics are alarming. 80% of people disengaged at work. This, the stats are just haunting. And so it's one like on a very micro level, it's bosses who are focused on themselves, companies that are focused on themselves. On a really macro level, you have publicly held organizations that, you know, lots of people own stock in and they're so distant from the team members experience, they're so distant from the customer experience. And that's just one of the challenges that we have really short term perspective. Oftentimes in publicly held organizations where it's every three months, you know, you're making, you're doing three month sprints, which makes you think a little differently than when your name is on a company and you're thinking about generations. So I'd say like the short of it is that when people focus on themselves, they create cannibalistic cultures. When they're, when shareholders are really, really far from the shop floor, it's, it's easy to not take care of people who are far away from you.
- [20:24]
Justin Colby
Yeah. You know, you brought up a great point. Founders, leaders, executive, like they tend to be more concerned about themselves in companies like that. Like I need to hit my goal, you know, whatever those things and then they lose sight of what that energy is creating inside of the workplace. How can you help a, a leader, a founder, stay focused on creating the right energy in the workplace so that people are continued to buy in? Because listen, the thing I know and you both know, like you just, I appreciate you exposing, you know, you had a $3 million credit line, max out or 2.5, whatever it was. Like that can be consuming, that can mentally, you know, be tough in sleepless nights. And the energy you then exude from that. Right, it's almost that like stressful, cortisol ridden. How do you, how do you still stay even keel while going through those moments?
- [21:22]
Josh Block
Well, yeah, I mean there's a lot of facets to that, but one of them is we spread the load across people that when we, when we, when it's all our own. Oh, I'm not going to tell my wife. I'm just gonna, just gonna toss and turn all by myself at night. Versus this idea of like, hey team, this is where we're at. These are the challenges we're facing and these are the hurdles that we need to overcome. And this is the gap that I'd like to close over the next 90 days. We invite people into being part of the solution. And so when, when team members are complaining about, I'm not happy about this and I'm not happy about that, there is something powerful about saying this is what I'm concerned about. I'm like, I think of it almost like you're going to Disney. You've got your kids in the backseat of the car and they're complaining about like what channel is on, on the tv in the van. And you're, you're concerned about like something much greater, right? The traffic. That's going to be four hours of traffic and the kids are fighting over, you know, whether it's Mickey Mouse or whatever it is. And you're like, I'm concerned we're not going to get to the park today. And so I do think there is, there is this piece of like when you share, hey, this is, this is like something that we should be concerned about. And it does tend to put everything else in perspective.
- [22:37]
Justin Colby
I, you know, I, I agree so far with all of this is, is, you know, I think the, the leaders that go into business and don't even ask questions that they feel like because the culture and no one's raising their hand, no one's expressing concern, everything's okay and everyone's still bought in. What, what's your piece of advice for the growing company that needs to make sure their people are still bought into the Mission vision values, they're really bought in and still tied down to where the company's going.
- [23:11]
Josh Block
I think for all of us as leaders to ask what's the legacy we want to leave? And that can be done in all sorts of different ways. There's the obituary exercise, where how you want to be remembered or talked about after you die. But I think this idea of, like, after leading for five years or after running this company for 10 years, what do I want to be said of me? Because I think there are a lot of people, and I'm talking to some people in the generation ahead of me who are saying, like, I made all this money. Like, I. I used all these people to get me to the other side of the bridge. And now, like, I'm kind of all alone. And I just feel like I want to be generous. And I would say, hey, instead of. Instead of using people and then trying to be generous with you, why don't we actually be generous and work alongside and be with so many of my best friends work in this business. And so I just think that's such a cool opportunity. But I would ask the question, like, what's the legacy? What do you want to be known for? If you. If you want to be known in 10 years for being the richest person on the biggest boat and where you're at, Miami, it's great. That's not what I'm after personally. And so I think when we can say what we're after and chase it, we then invite other people into that journey. It's a different group of people who want to be involved with that sort of a business owner than what I'm trying to create. But at least we're honest, and we invite people into being a part of who we authentically are as leaders.
- [24:33]
Justin Colby
And then how does a leader go to their. Their workspace and their people and break the silence? Like, I think where my head goes is people feel almost like if no one's really complaining, everyone's happy.
- [24:49]
Josh Block
Sure.
- [24:50]
Justin Colby
You and I both know that's not true. Sure. They're just not complaining.
- [24:53]
Josh Block
Yeah.
- [24:54]
Justin Colby
Doesn't mean they're happy. Right. How do you help them break the silence? As a leader, how do you get in there and help your community, your team, your company? Speak up. You know, be a voice. Help us make the change. Like, if you're unhappy, why, like, how does a leader that may be a little bit more stubborn and we all know them, right? Like, sure. Well, no one's complaining, so I'm just gonna keep my head down. Go. How do you break that?
- [25:17]
Josh Block
Yeah. So for us, we talk about and people matter work the shift from the me cycle to the we cycle. So in the me cycle, everybody's focused for the out, for looking out for themselves. The boss starts the cycle, and employees Return the favor and the we cycle. I kind I really, after lots of years of leading, I didn't have this at the beginning, but started to reverse engineering like what are the manifestations of a leader who cares about people? And so that happened to be three T's and the first I mentioned earlier was together, working together, listening to people's voices, sharpening ideas so that it's not my decision, but it's our decision, not a democracy, but ultimately we still are taking people's opinions, sharpening ideas and then launching them. And then the second T is thoughtful is take careful consideration of the needs of others. Today I have a corner office and I get to choose the lighting and I have a thermostat and all those sorts of things. Early in my career I didn't. And so even as you potentially move up the ladder is what are the things you cared about at 25 that maybe you don't care about as much at 45 because not because you don't care about them, but because you have them right Title isn't really that important to the president of the organization because they have it. And so, so this idea of like thoughtful is careful consideration of the needs of others. And that's workspaces, that's pay, that's overtime hours and how, how you communicate and, and travel and cars and all, all sorts of different decisions. And then the last is transparency, which you and I have already touched on, is just being really transparent about what's going on, what the leader's thinking about, and then what is the leader thinking about that team member. Those three T's are really what start, in my opinion, a we cycle culture, which then creates a place where people feel safe, seen and successful. And when they feel safe, seen and successful, they take ownership, they give back. And then the last piece is this manifestation of asking questions. So I love asking questions. You do too. That's what probably makes you a great podcast host, right? Is I do is we have a question asking culture. So every meeting we have, every company wide meeting we have every one on one, any questions that you have, and people can write it on cards, they can write it anonymously in the team's chat, but really not just creating a culture, ask a question asking culture by talking about it, but actually expecting you can ask questions. And I'm going to answer as honestly as I possibly can. From strategy to women in leadership to all sorts of different things. And so for us, question asking culture does kind of set the table for transparency.
- [27:56]
Justin Colby
Do you? What's your thoughts on the complaining employee. Do you think that is a little bit where I'm coming with this question is like there's times where you feel like just everyone's complaining for complaining sake. Right. And you know, almost like a parent. Right. Like my kids are never happy with what I make for dinner.
- [28:17]
Josh Block
Right.
- [28:18]
Justin Colby
They're just, they, you know, are complaining for complaining sake. Is that something that you actually should be very aware of in, in tune with what they're complaining about or is there still some level of like dichotomy of like they're just kind of unhappy for being unhappy? Right. How far do you have to be in tune with like taking every complaint? It's like, oh my God, we gotta change everything because Johnny complained about X.
- [28:43]
Josh Block
Sure. I think you have the spectrum is you have someone who's complaining who. It's, it's actually part of their character. They complain. It's just, it's no matter where they go, they are someone who is a complainer. And then you have someone who's circumstantial that the concern they're bringing on behalf of the team or whatever is legitimate. It's a true concern that we should, it's, it's not reflective of our mission or our values or whatever it is. And so I think we want to take seriously when someone is concerned about something. Sometimes someone who's willing to speak up is, actually has the propensity to be the deepest owner. They care enough to take a risk. And then you have someone else who we talk about. We have thriving mindsets here at Block Imaging. And so we invite people to the right side of a number of spectrums. And one of them is problems versus opportunities. And so we just say that we're an opportunities born culture. And so it doesn't mean that we don't have customers who are frustrated or we don't have problems, but we just see through the lens of an opportunity. And so if we have someone who is constantly. Boy, you just point at problems. You point at problems. You point at problems. Which really is kind of a victim mindset.
- [29:51]
Justin Colby
Sure.
- [29:51]
Josh Block
We would invite them to the right. And if we, if we could not get someone to move across, generally what we've seen is people will actually exit the organization. They'll realize that if they're not a good fit and they, they're not interested in having an opportunistic lens and they really just, just are enamored with problems.
- [30:10]
Justin Colby
Yeah, listen, you're, you're gonna either attract the people that are in alignment or remove people that aren't Right. You'll repel them, and that's okay. I think people are too caught up in, like, I don't want to hurt someone or let them go. And they have bills. I got that. But they're not paying your bills. And if they complain every day and they ruin your culture, sure. They're actually not advantageous. Right. Like, you can't always have a bleeding heart.
- [30:34]
Josh Block
Do you.
- [30:35]
Justin Colby
Do you find that to be a. A common thing with leaders? Like, they tend to have a little bit more of a bleeding heart and trying to retain people probably a little too long, even though really they should be let go.
- [30:49]
Josh Block
Yeah, I. I think that there. There's probably a passive aggressiveness to this, is that we kind of don't say anything. We think we're being kind of nice. We just tolerate. And then the stories build up, and then a leader is like, I'm done. I don't believe in this person anymore. I resent them. And in a lot of organizations especially that are, you can't let them go. There's. There's too much legal risk or whatever it is. And so I just kind of, like, I put them in a corner and turn the lights off, turn the temperature down, and hope they leave. And so that's kind of the passive and the aggressive, or then they ultimately just wake up one day and let someone go. I would say that there's an in between, which is healthy, which is just provide feedback. Hey, I'm concerned about. It feels like as fast as we talk about one problem, there's five more behind it. And I'd love to know what. I'd love to give some feedback to invite the person across and to close the gap. And what we see a lot of times and you talk about letting someone go is, well, that happens. And we've had our fair share of transitioning from someone from the organization over the last two decades. I would say a lot of times people actually get the hint. They come in, they say, hey, you know what, Josh? I'm putting in my two weeks, and I took a job at, you know, fill in the blank. And, you know, we get to. We get to give them a hug. We get to thank them for their, you know, two years of service or six months or whatever it was, and we part ways amicably. We actually get to bless them on their way out. And so that's my favorite way of. Of sometimes when someone's transitioning, that sort of a story, that instead of letting someone go and you run into them in the grocery store, and, you know, everybody remembers the people that broke up with them in high school. You kind of have that. But also when they transition and resign on their own, they already have another job. They've already turned the page. They're ready to move forward with their future. They're maybe excited about their next step, which is what I'd want for anyone who is leaving our organization.
- [32:44]
Justin Colby
Do you turn up the heat to kind of force the issue there? Do you just.
- [32:47]
Josh Block
Oh, I don't know if I'd say turn up the heat. I would say that we continue. We. Yeah, there's probably some more intensity of like, this is a concern. Then I do talk about it and people matter at work. But then, hey, this is a concern. Hey, I'm still concerned about it. We kind of write it down. And then there's a crucial conversation that happens before anyone has ever let go, unless it's theft or a big time character issue. And it's, hey, Justin, you and I have talked about this a number of times. And if we're unable to close the gap between where we are and where I expect us to be by June 1, it will be time to bring closure to your season here at Block Imaging. And some people who just heard that on the podcast who made it this far, like, oh, my gosh, that seems so uncomfortable to say. And I'd say, well, so is walking in the office and saying that today's your last day. Right? Like, I mean, that's a difficult conversation too. And so giving someone that warning and a lot of times in that sort of situation, once you've gotten to that spot, we won't make it through. But there are some times, and there's a story about Tyler in the book where I have like 12 keeping it real sections. And we had that conversation. We had a very serious conversation where I laid out the couple of pathways and most of them included not being a part of the team today. He's the leader of our sales team and incredibly successful. And when it happens, it's really, really fun.
- [34:13]
Justin Colby
So first of all, let's get the book. Is it. Where can we all go get the book?
- [34:16]
Josh Block
Yeah, people matter at work. For those who are looking online right now, you can see hardcovering it.
- [34:21]
Justin Colby
This is a real book. This isn't some flimsy 20 page little pants.
- [34:25]
Josh Block
This is. So this actually, I don't know when this podcast is actually going to go live. Today is the first day it hit the shelves March 3rd. So there's whatever. Whoever ordered a copy before today, this is the fir These are some authors copies I have here. But today is the launch day. So I've been writing for six years and today is the official, like we're gonna cut pie as a family tonight and celebrate that it's for real. But yeah, you can get at Amazon, Barnes and Noble books, a million anywhere books are sold.
- [34:54]
Justin Colby
Oh, that's phenomenal. People matter at work. Now. You talked about 12 keeping it real points of this book. I love this one about Tyler. I love the turnaround story. I'm a big turnaround guy. Right. Like Tyler, if you can't get there by the end of March and next, you know, like he's a rock star and give me another keep it real story out of this book.
- [35:16]
Josh Block
Yeah. So there's another story about MacKenzie who we were having a conversation and we were talking about kind of a high stakes conversation and it related to men and women and we have a lot of traveling team members and a lot of complexity around that topic. And so I shared some thoughts and she saw it very differently and she asked to meet with me and so we sat down together and she shared her thoughts and I asked, I asked for some feedback on how I approached the meeting. And so she shares about just feeling safe in that environment to share her concern and ask for feedback. And we both grew through it. So mackenzie, all of them are great. But yeah, Tyler and mackenzie are two that come to mind as we're on the podcast today.
- [35:58]
Justin Colby
One of the things that. And I'd love your feedback. One of the things that I've always felt I've done okay at and there's always room to improve. But I always feel like a question when you feel like someone's underperforming on a consistent basis or they're complaining or whatever, I actually go to them and say, hey, I would love to have a quick chat. Let's go grab a coffee. Something easy. It doesn't have to be overly formal. And I'll just say something to the, to the tune of like, do you enjoy still working here? Like, or are you happy here or are we providing enough for you to like still be excited to work here? Some depending upon the scenario. Right. But like some layer of that. What I have found when I do that every time, almost always they talk themselves into leaving and finally exposing. They've been unhappy, they've been on a side hustle that really has been distracting them, blah, blah, whatever. Or they just come true and honest and they say, you know, I just haven't been performing, it's my fault and I'm let. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna step it up. Like, I'm on it right now. 90% of the time, they exit. They exit themselves. I don't even have to have further conversation. It's a very easy, clean, harmless conversation, because they get to be the ones that verbalize, like, this isn't the right fit. I don't. I'm just asking, like, hey, are you still happy here? Does. Does it still excite you to work here every day? Or, you know, and they do.
- [37:21]
Josh Block
Yeah. The question that comes to mind when. When you do that is like, how's it going? Yeah, like, you know, how's it going? And a lot of time. Oh, it's not, you know, when. When they're able to say that, then, hey, I don't have to tell you it's not going well. If you say it's not going well, then where do we go from here? We both admit where we are, and now where do we want to go? And that's. That's a great one.
- [37:41]
Justin Colby
Yeah. The. The thing that I tried to do, and I don't have a $215 million organization, maybe one day, Josh. Maybe one day. But, you know, I just try to make it almost like if I was on my way to go get a Coke or something, you know what I mean? Like, make it not even formal at all. And I just find, like, to me, at least what I found in my leadership style is like, the less formal, hey, can you come into my office? Hey, can I meet with you? It creates an emotional attention starting out the conversation, where if it's like, hey, dude, I'm gonna go grab a burger today. You want to join me? Or, hey, who wants to join me for a burger? And I happen to be around the person that I want to be talking to, that style to me, just for me, my own style seems to work really well.
- [38:24]
Josh Block
And I think there's that side and then there's. Maybe it's a little weightier that it's not. It's not going to be. We're not starting at 2 out of 10. We're starting at 8 out of 10. And, yeah, I've loved. I got a piece of advice from one of my good friends where I. I'd have someone come my office or email them ahead of time and say, we're going to have a difficult conversation. Tell them right ahead of time, like, we're going have a difficult conversation. And then they naturally kind of assume today's their last day. That's not where we're going, but I am going to share some high stakes feedback. And so I think there's a couple ends, whether you do the burger joint or whether you bring people in your office and you share it in a forthright way. But what I think you're getting at and I really like is very rarely does one person think it's going awesome and the other person thinks it's going terrible. It's just not very often, right? We, when we sit down and we say, oftentimes when we as leaders sit down and we say, hey, it doesn't seem like it's going real well. The person's like, oh, my gosh. Finally, like, I've been, I have been waiting. I haven't really had the courage to say anything because I'm afraid and I don't want to leave and I don't lose my job and I whatever. But, man, this has been a tough four months and then we get to talk about a solution together.
- [39:32]
Justin Colby
No. And I also love when it's heavier. Like, when it's heavier to me, it's because I have expectations, probably a leader, that I'm just like, man, this is. We got to have a real conversation. You can't just like grab a burger. This is, we got to get into it. Josh Block Again, 29 year old President, launched in there by his dad, brought the company from 30 million to 215 million. Has an exit. Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to learn from the best, then you want to lean into this book. People matter at work. Barnes and Noble, Amazon, everywhere. You can get it. Written by our boy, Josh Block. Launching March 3rd, which today is March 3rd.
- [40:11]
Josh Block
March 3rd.
- [40:12]
Justin Colby
Yeah. Any last words of encouragement for those that are maybe at scale, they're ready to ramp up and they're ready to push forward?
- [40:19]
Josh Block
Yeah, man. I would just say that regardless of where you are in season of life, generally as you get older, you care more about people. Very few people ask when they're on their deathbed if they could just drive their Ferrari one more time. I mean, it's possible, but not very likely they want to hold their grandkid one more time. And so this, I think my final words, people are a gift. Work is a privilege. And leadership is the embodiment of those two realities.
- [40:45]
Justin Colby
That is very powerful. Work is a gift. People are a privilege. Yeah, I think that is, that is incredible. Guys, take note of that. Work is a gift. People are a privilege. Treated that way. Josh Block, I am Justin Colby. This has been the entrepreneur DNA. Go pick up. People matter at work at all places. Books are sold. We'll see you on the next episode. Peace.
- [41:06]
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