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- [00:00]
Mark Goddard
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Tom Edwards
Hello and welcome to the Entrepreneurs on Monocle Radio. The show all about inspiring people, innovative companies and fresh ideas in global business. In this week's program we hear from a serial entrepreneur and co founder of an innovative business aiming to deliver sustainable packaging for fast moving consumer goods. With the help of the humble drinks.
- [00:32]
Victor Ljungberg
Can, linear packaging, meaning non recyclable, will end up at landfill or incineration. We realized that aluminum is a better material, it's infinitely recyclable. So we looked at what is the most recycled container on the market, which is the aluminum beverage can. It's beautiful. So we just transformed it.
- [00:50]
Tom Edwards
And a little later we'll meet a man serving the wealth management needs of the entrepreneur segment and hearing why this demographic see the world and their wealth a little differently.
- [01:01]
Mark Goddard
Business owners, increasingly we're seeing the demographic changes as well and there's increasingly a younger growing entrepreneurial client base who also expect things differently.
- [01:12]
Tom Edwards
This is the entrepreneurs with me, Tom Edwards, You're listening to the entrepreneurs. Victor Lindbergh is a serial entrepreneur with a track record of success in digital media who's now setting his sights on an even more challenging field, making the world more sustainable. His means for this pursuit is as the co founder and CEO of Meadow, a radically different packaging solutions business that's using the aluminium can to transform the FMC goods segment. Meadow's proprietary capsule tech has already seen wide adoption. And there's more. The business has partnered with the world's largest supplier of aluminium Ball Corporation to guarantee scale and they're also strategic partners with Novelis, the world leader in aluminium rolling and recycling, meaning Meadow are less vulnerable to changing tariffs and market price disruption. Clever, right? Well, armed with examples of the smart products and tech for me to play with, Victor, stop by at Monocle HQ to tell me more about the business.
- [02:19]
Victor Ljungberg
Meadow is a new circular packaging standard. So imagine that you're a consumer and you go into a a retail shop and you're going to buy your products. You see a shampoo, you pick that up, a hand soap, a condiment, a surface cleaner. You reach the cashier, you pay for the products, you look down in your bag and you see fantastic products, but you also see a lot of items where 90% of them are linear packaging, meaning non recyclable and they will end up at landfill or incineration. And that is what we wanted to shift. So we realized that aluminum is a better material. It's infinitely recyclable. You know, 75% that's been ever extracted is still in use in circulation. But even though we love aluminum or think that is a great material, it is the infrastructure that is important. So we looked at what is the most recycled container on the market, which is the aluminum beverage can. It's beautiful. You know, it's 400 billion units being produced every year and it comes with a perfect value chain from production to collection. And we said, okay, how can we nudge this infrastructure or this product into new categories? So we just transformed it from a beverage can into a capsule, as we call it, the meadow capsule system. And then, well, you're a consumer, how would you use it? Well, you already have probably a dispenser at home, you maybe bought a nice one and you know, product store or H and M home or something similar. But nowadays you refill them and it's quite messy. So instead you take this cartridge, you pop it inside to our proprietary dispensing system. Mess free refill, DC open clean, etc.
- [03:59]
Interviewer
And that's a kind of a playful smile on your face because it is that amazing thing where, you know, I'm sure it was far from simple to deliver the proprietary tech and to, as you say, to sort of adapt the thinking of the beverage can to this different unit. But there's something so pleasingly, elegantly simple about it. And we've got some of the bits, let's talk about them because I have here. So this is a kind of the top of a traditional can with the integrated ring pool which people imagine. And this is the meadow top, the little kind of flower. Tell me a little bit about how it works because it, it basically it just looks like a drinks can without.
- [04:37]
Tom Edwards
The ring pool, which, I mean that is what it is.
- [04:40]
Victor Ljungberg
It is what it is. Exactly.
- [04:41]
Interviewer
But tell me how, because it's too simple. But it can't have been. So how did you refine it? What was that process?
- [04:47]
Victor Ljungberg
So maybe first talk about why even changing it. I mean if you put soap in a normal beverage can, which would actually, you know, be a good thing because you put then FMCG products in something that is circular but it's not a great user experience and it's not safe. Starting with the safety part. Actually if you have soap in a can and you have something that billions of people are used to consume in a certain way, someone would mistake it from beverage and someone will probably drink it and then they probably smell well in the mouth. However, it's not a good idea.
- [05:21]
Interviewer
Bubbles coming out.
- [05:21]
Victor Ljungberg
Yeah, bubbles coming out, exactly. But instead we had to make it tamper free and safe and we need to make it also different. So create a differentiation so people understand. Okay, this is something else. The other aspect, as I mentioned, is the user experience. This is a key element. We have actually created a reuse and a refill system. But we call it pre fill because with this tamper free end, which is, as you said it is, doesn't have a ring pull, you cannot open it. You need to open it with an external mechanism. It pushes you to another user experience. So you take the. Can you pop it inside of dispenser that. A dispenser.
- [05:57]
Interviewer
We have some here. Yeah, let's have a look at these as well.
- [05:59]
Victor Ljungberg
Yeah. So it could be a dispenser where you have a pump applicator for soap or hand cream, but it could also be the spray applicator for a surface cleaner. And you pop it inside and in order to open it, I'm going to do the.
- [06:13]
Interviewer
Yes, there it goes. Yeah.
- [06:14]
Victor Ljungberg
Yes. And then you would need to take away the safety cupboard things. So. Exactly.
- [06:20]
Interviewer
There you go.
- [06:21]
Victor Ljungberg
There you go.
- [06:22]
Interviewer
Now listen, I guess. So this is one of those ideas where, listen, the execution is perfect. The idea is beautifully simple. You've proved your smarts before, right. You've already exited other businesses, so that makes it presumably easier when you're talking to partners and backers and so forth to a degree. But to move the needle with something like this, this and the numbers were astonishing. 400 billion beverage cans, you said a year. You've got to get people on board relatively swiftly and at a certain scale.
- [06:48]
Mark Goddard
Right.
- [06:48]
Victor Ljungberg
To.
- [06:48]
Interviewer
To start to kind of do the things we need to do for that circularity. That is not easy because people are cynical. They're set in their ways. They are conservative, small C conservative, generally about making big strategic pivots. So what toolkit, Victor, do you have to kind of dig into to try and move that narrative forwards?
- [07:07]
Victor Ljungberg
Yes, great question. I mean, maybe go back to how we met, me and my two co founders, Nick and Peter. We met, I think because of three reasons. It was time that we were at the same co working space without knowing each other from before.
- [07:22]
Interviewer
A bit of just serendipity for sure.
- [07:25]
Victor Ljungberg
The second part was that we all were in love in the same problem without knowing it. I think that is important. And then a very strong intuition after we have shared our ideas and seen what we wanted to do, that we felt that we do it now, immediately. No break, just full throttle. So, you know, I've been spending some time already, as you mentioned, I was a CEO in another company. We had now already sold it once and we were about to sell it the second time to a new owner. I also realized I want to work within sustainability. I want to work with specific problem which was the waste crisis that we're extracting. And we'll continue to extract, I should say.
- [08:04]
Interviewer
You know, the previous business, it wasn't in this sector.
- [08:08]
Victor Ljungberg
No, no. It was a totally different sector. So I come from marketing. I was actually helping Global FMCities to sell their products on digital platforms. But now I want to help them take responsibility of the products. So that was kind of the shift and the theme was the waste crisis. How can we reduce the waste mountain that exists on this planet? Because only on the last five years since we started this business, the amount of waste on this planet has increased with 20%. 20%.
- [08:35]
Interviewer
And again you could a bit like that 400 billion. You got to let that stat sink in.
- [08:38]
Victor Ljungberg
Yeah, 20%, 20% more waste on this planet. And we talk about certain waste mountains in areas on this planet that are bigger cities. You know, there's traffic on these waste mountains. And then you also have the invisible waste mountains like in Sweden. We incinerate it. We have a very sophisticated infrastructure to create waste to warmth, to create energy from it also. Fantastic. But it doesn't really help us the fact that we are continuing to extract resources from this planet and we have planetary boundaries. We just need to admit that, that we are consuming more than what exists. We talk about this overshoot day. So currently I think that we are at 1.8 planets a year and it is going in the wrong direction. And just to bombard you with another stat.
- [09:25]
Interviewer
I'm loving the stats, Victor. Don't you worry about that.
- [09:27]
Victor Ljungberg
Okay now. But then, then, you know, until, you know, 2050 is a quite important target for countries and companies, et cetera. We need to be net zero. By then we probably have extracted 60% more resources than today from this planet. Imagine it's just.
- [09:44]
Interviewer
Well, it's, it's. We talk about sustainability. Yeah, that's not sustainable. So tell me. Yeah, the other one of the other kind of, I think things that strikes me as very intuitive the word you use, but also smart about the business is you can collaborate with different stakeholders throughout the kind of supply chain across the piece. You have your, your sort of co packing partners again, was that always part of the plan that you had to make it easy to integrate these other partners throughout the whole chain in order to drive change at the scale which.
- [10:15]
Tom Edwards
The numbers tell us?
- [10:16]
Interviewer
It's very urgent.
- [10:17]
Victor Ljungberg
Yeah. I think getting the partners on board is key. And I should also come back to, you know, answer your actual first question is like what does it take? What's the driver to make this happen? And as I said when we three met and we are aligned on this problem, we said okay, we probably have a brief now. And the brief is do not try to recycle the existing waste mountain. If you see, you know, imagine that you have a bathtub filled with litter and it's just constantly being refilled. Try to turn off the tap I think is probably the most common analogy. And we said okay, that is what we need to do. But that was in 2019, 2020. So to briefly if we need to look at a new solution, it is obviously a design problem. We need to find a packaging that is designed for circular economy for the future. Nick co founder is the one with engineering background, myself with business background and so is with Peter who just exited a tech startup. He said what if we take the aluminum beverage can into new industries by doing a modification to it? And he drew it on a napkin. It's true.
- [11:16]
Interviewer
It's a proper one of those stories.
- [11:19]
Victor Ljungberg
At the lunch restaurant, you know April.
- [11:22]
Tom Edwards
Somewhere is it framed?
- [11:23]
Interviewer
It should be.
- [11:24]
Victor Ljungberg
I mean it's somewhere in Nick's documents. Yeah, yeah. And, and but I was, we were sitting at lunch restaurants and the day before it was Earth day. So you know, stars aligned in a very beautiful way. And I said if we do this, I, I quit my job. What did we have to do? We have to prove that we have something that could scale. We need to prove that something that also is more sustainable. And we want to prove that we have something that could really make a difference on shelf for fmcities. So that was kind of the first step. We recruited our first employee, Ross, mathematician from Oxford. Let's try to understand the first step. Is this better from a sustainability perspective? Nick focused on can we protect it. Me and Peter focused on the commercial part of it. And then we went to our first fundraise. So back then also 2020, 2021, we were mid Covid. Everyone loved the fact of talking about a green transition. Everyone wanted to talk about sustainability. Everyone wanted to address their problems. So I wouldn't say it was easy. We had a lot of warm welcomes into investor environments that was very important to give us and fuel us with energy. And then it leads us to your second question. What did we have to focus on? So for us it was the first step of saying okay, we have something unique. As I said, can we protect It So the first third of the development of the company for the last five years was about developing ip, developing something that is simple enough. It needs to be simple. That is the only way we can implement it in the existing infrastructure. The second part was to develop a product so we have the can, we know it's infinitely recyclable and we can nudge it from the infrastructure. And our modification to the can is so simple. So we do not not disturb the existing production lines. That is key. Now as you said, how do I open it? Well, we need to create a user experience around it. What is it that people use? They use normal dispenser, pump dispenser, spray dispenser, mist roll ons, etc. But how do we put a can inside? And I don't want to do any marketing for Nespresso, but you can imagine, you can imagine that, you know, that comes to mind. That's like a cartridge. You pop it inside to a reusable dispenser and you use things exactly how you've done before. We meet people, meet consumers where they are, but we just try to eliminate some of the most painful part. We knew that refill is messy, unconvenient. So when you pop it inside and with this twist to open technology. Okay, that's check. Then the second part was premiumness. People invest more and more in their homes. We know that they don't want to pay more for sustainability. People want to do good, but they may necessarily. There's no ESG premium, but they do potentially want to pay more to make their home more beautiful. We talk about an element called house proudness and that's important what happens in the guest bathroom. So that was the second phase to really come close to the consumer. Working with consumers actually here in UK a lot where we also have an office. And then thirdly to build a supply chain. And now you talk about the co packers and everyone. So with that base of having strong ip, a strong product, we needed a supply chain that also can help us with the scalability. And the first we got on board was data and reliable tooling. DRT is a company who invented the EC open end with its normal pull tab in the beginning 60s.
- [14:54]
Interviewer
So they know a great simple idea when they see Von Rock. Yes.
- [14:58]
Victor Ljungberg
Yeah. And you know, they looked at us and said, have you done this in your garage? Really? Like they have very sophisticated tooling. But we also needed them to help us industrialize this, to really make the industrial tooling, to make this in scale. Because a normal beverage Hand, I mean in a high speed line is producing at 6,000 per minute.
- [15:21]
Interviewer
Okay. Another quite large number.
- [15:24]
Victor Ljungberg
It's just a sound of metal, it's nothing else. And then the second one was of course the relationship we have also built with Ball Ball Corporation, world's largest can maker. And for us it's about to continue to build these alliances. Recently we announced our partnership with Stephen Gould, fantastic dispenser manufacturer and then multiple fantastic co packers across the planet that then can fill the product. What they need to do is they need to do a minor investment in equipment because everything is quite modular, but need to see macan and then to create this differentiation pattern on the cartridge and they're good to go. And then they could offer a new circular packaging solution.
- [16:06]
Interviewer
So what do you need to see in 2026 to really reassure you to deliver? Is it that you see a specific collaboration on certain shelves in a certain place? Is it a certain other product modification? What will make 26 successful for you?
- [16:23]
Victor Ljungberg
For us it's, I mean why we even exist is to help the brands that exist today that are producing a majority of the products that we find in consumers home. We need to help them shift, but it takes a long time. So the question is how do I make them move faster? We are here in the uk, you can find the products, I cannot tell the brands, but you can find the products at Waitrose so you can buy them there. But we need to also show that our supply chain that we're building up or our partners that we're building up across, across the globe could deliver with quality. I know they can. But currently we have launched in the eu. The next step is also therefore us to show the scalability of the solution. But you need to start also with other entrepreneurs. So for us it's been partnering with brands that are entrepreneurial, that take risk, that are bold and daring. I'm so thankful that this market even exists. I mean 10 years ago there were fewer product goods companies run by entrepreneurs that grew as fast as they were growing right now. So they're also a super important part of our relationship. But to deliver with that. And then we are also happy to say that we will constantly continue to do some cool development. We're hoping to see hospitality soon open up soon. So that I also wanted to see happening because that is another environment where we can push other benefits of this solution. You know, imagine being hotel staff and you're going to replace the products in the dispenser on the wall when you just take a can pop it inside, twist open and leave the room efficient and hygienic. So that is also another aspect. Now we understand our kind of split vision of things getting good penetration, where we really need focus, but also evolving, showcasing, opening up new opportunities.
- [18:09]
Interviewer
That was Victor Ljungberg, the co founder of Meadow.
- [18:12]
Tom Edwards
And you can find out more about this clever business by heading to Meadow Global. You're listening to the entrepreneurs. Mark Goddard is the UK CEO of Lombardodia Group, a business he joined late in 2024 with more than two decades of experience under his belt, serving wealthy UK clients, including the entrepreneurial segment for the likes of Coutts and since 2005, UBS. That background makes Mark a great fit at Lombard Odia, adding to the bank's ability to support entrepreneurial clients with tailored advice and strategic insight.
- [18:54]
Interviewer
With nearly 230 years of experience, indeed.
- [18:57]
Tom Edwards
Lombard Odier is arguably uniquely well positioned to understand the complex needs of entrepreneurs. I welcomed Mark to Midori House to hear more about the particular dynamics of the entrepreneurial segment and the kind of challenge and opportunity their often changing needs provide. Mark began by telling me what he loves about working with entrepreneurs.
- [19:19]
Mark Goddard
It's a real privilege actually, because taking away the business side, these are just really interesting people. Businesses are often started not deliberately. It can be a spark, it's just an idea, it's something that has triggered some inspiration of some sense and the way that that then sort of leads through to the creation of something that develops economic value and builds and you hire and bring people into that and ultimately you achieve something of value through it. I mean, that's pretty inspiring and I mean, I've been very fortunate over the last 25 years or so.
- [19:55]
Interviewer
He doesn't look young enough, old enough.
- [19:57]
Mark Goddard
Ladies and gentlemen, very kind. But over that sort of time period in the industry and I've been very fortunate to work with some really fascinating people from all types of backgrounds as well. And I think that's the other part that really fascinate. I love people love, you know, talking to people, understanding people's journeys, motivations and ultimately helping them through the different stages of both their business requirements. But importantly then how that transpires into what they do with their wealth and their finances.
- [20:23]
Interviewer
Well, yeah, I was going to ask you a bit about how the demands or the expectations from working with these kind of clients has changed over the years. You worked at UBS for many years. You know this sector and these kinds of opportunities and challenges implicit in it very well is a lot of it, Mark these days about what you Said it's about kind of leaning into people's lives, understanding them more deeply, offering a more personalised service. I know that's a very important foundational value in terms of how Lombard Audio works generally. Is that the kind of the difference maker between the clients that come back, the clients that recommend their friends and so on, that you can deliver something that is more personal?
- [20:56]
Mark Goddard
I guess, yes, definitely. I think that over, as I say, over 20 odd years, I think it has changed a lot, actually. And I would say in the last 10 years or so, that personalization, that ability to deeply understand what it is that drives and motivates people, their families, the interaction between their business life and their personal life, and how when you make decisions, often you're impacting both sides of that equation. I think that is really important. I would also say that business owners, increasingly, we're seeing the demographic changes as well, and there's increasingly a younger, growing entrepreneurial client base who also expect things differently. I think they really look to an institution like ours to be able to support them through their networks that we have access to, particularly into the advisory community for their business. You know, we work extensively with corporate finance and private equity and venture capital and it's a pretty lonely journey, actually. When you're a business owner, you're not necessarily surrounded by lots of other business owners who are your friends. Coming back to my point about people coming from all sorts of walks of life and backgrounds, and I think that it can be difficult to navigate that journey. And so where I think we play an important role, and I think this has evolved over time, is in being able to support people, create those connections and those networks, but also obviously to be able to help them think through some of those key topics and issues that are going to impact them through that business and personal journey.
- [22:30]
Interviewer
I find this kind of moment we're in where with an unprecedented transfer of wealth on a sort of global scale, and we're seeing it sort of, I guess, a bit kind of sideways by gender, as women typically tend to outlive men. But then we're seeing this huge intergenerational shift and all sorts of attendant, again, challenges and opportunities that are implicit in that. If we zoom out and look at the wealth management industry more broadly, Mark, is the business, the sector, is it keeping pace with those shifting demands? I guess certain operators are. I think Ello is a good example. More work to be done, though the value sets are very different. It's not just the demographic profile, what they want and what they want their wealth to do. And how they consider the decisions they make are changing very quickly. Is the industry keeping pace?
- [23:16]
Mark Goddard
Yeah, look, I think that's a good observation, Tom. From my perspective, I think that you do see expectations changing. I think areas like technology are playing an increasing role role in the relationship that clients want to have with their wealth managers and with their banks. In time gone by, I think wealth managers slightly shunned or looked down on technology and apps and things, and it was all about the personal service. And of course that is still relevant. And clients of scale do require personal service, but the way in which they access information, the way in which they want to communicate, the way they want to interpret and look at research and things like this, actually the technology is playing an increasingly important role. And I think that the industry as a whole, to your point, is probably been a little bit slow at times in really addressing this and bringing it through, certainly relative to perhaps our retail peers who through necessity of scale have had to develop the technology more effectively. So I think that is definitely a key trend that we see. I think the other thing I would point to, which is social value, social conscience, wanting to have social impact, particularly as I say, in younger generations, we see that sustainability and the way in which we invest money is really important to them. And yes, of course, returns are key, but at the same time it's actually, how do you generate those returns? Is becoming more and more of a conversation that we're having. And I think again, there have been developments in the industry. Is there more to do there? I would say yes, there is. And Lombardier has been at the forefront, I think, of that, addressing the importance of having a strong social and sustainable approach to its investments and supporting clients that really value that.
- [24:58]
Interviewer
Now, Mark, you mentioned the importance of being a network where perhaps there isn't one established for many clients. And I know Lombardon is kind of building more of a sort of formalized entrepreneurial network, if you will. I don't know exactly what phase this program is at, but it strikes me as really interesting. And I think it speaks to what you said about going that extra bit further to deliver on your undertakings. Tell us what stage that is at and explain how that kind of fits in and responds actually to lots of the themes that we've been talking about.
- [25:26]
Mark Goddard
Yeah, it's at a stage where we are looking to take steps into next year around it. So I will talk a bit about it. I guess maybe taking a quick step back, which is why are we doing it and why do we think some form of entrepreneur network or ecosystem is important. This really stems from a number of interactions and relationships I've had over the years with business owners. And I think about some of the challenges that they have faced through those business and those personal journeys. And we alluded to it a little bit earlier in terms of the fact that you don't always, as an entrepreneur, have a whole host of entrepreneurs sitting around you day to day. Your family may provide good moral support and you may have friends that will have a beer with you about stuff, but actually when it comes to the ins and outs of the challenges you're facing with your business at different stages and when it comes to thinking about actually exiting of a business, the emotional impact of selling your baby, and then actually what does life look like beyond that? Very, very difficult topics to be able to really discuss with people that haven't gone through it before themselves. That was the inspiration really for wanting to create a support network for business owners in the UK that don't have that opportunity to sit around a table together, kick the tires on important topics related to the business. How do I get my business ready for exit? What are the key things that you focused on? Where did you have challenges? What would your advice be? So actually getting people from different backgrounds in terms of when they sold businesses, before they sold a business, talking to one another, I think is really key. And then also thinking about the impact on family. If you've been running the business and then suddenly you're at home a lot, that's changing the dynamics with your wife or your husband or.
- [27:12]
Interviewer
We thought this is what we wanted. No, but I think that's really. I think that's really interesting, that idea of getting people at different stages of the journey. I mean, it's kind of what drives some of the conversations we have on this program is to see you have ideas. You exactly said, Mark, that you just wouldn't, couldn't have without that, that comparing and contrasting. Let's look forward then. What are you most excited about? I guess there are initiatives like that more broadly. I was encouraged, Mark, by your take on the UK scene. At the top of our chat, what gets you kind of springing out of bed, heading into the office, feeling positive about things? What are the things you're most looking forward to?
- [27:44]
Mark Goddard
Yeah, I think, you know, we're in a very fortunate position in my industry. We work with just really fascinating people with great stories and great backgrounds and a lot of inspiration. And so the thing that gets me out of bed is coming in and being able to be around those types of People and perhaps, you know, add a little bit of value here and there to make sure that they continue to be successful and wealthy. But to your point, the things that excite me at the moment are definitely that, you know, we still definitely have in the UK a thriving entrepreneurial scene that is not going away, that is well established, it's been here for hundreds of years and, you know, the UK adapts. It is an adapter. And yes, we go through these ups and downs, whether it's economic, whether it's political, et cetera, but fundamentally, I think, you know, we have a creative economy. I think we have fantastic institutions that support the creativity in the economy. We've got a great education system. Education, by the way, is an area that I feel incredibly passionate about. I think there's more that we need to do there to actually support the entrepreneurs of tomorrow. Getting people thinking earlier on about financial literacy, about how do you run a business? And I think we could bring more of that, perhaps into the curriculum. And so I feel very optimistic about the overall future of the business community in the uk. I think there are opportunities for improvement. I think we can do more on the scale up side of things and we definitely need to do more around capital markets. But overall, it's a great place to start a business. And that for me and somebody that gets to speak and work with people who've been successful in this regard, is extremely exciting.
- [29:17]
Tom Edwards
That was Mark Goddard, the UK CEO of Lombard Odia Group. And you can find out more by heading to lombardodia dot. And that's all for this episode of the Entrepreneurs. We'll be back at the same time next week. The program's produced by Laura Kramer with audio editing by Jack Dewars. You can listen again and find out more about the show@monacle.com and whilst you're there, why not subscribe to Monocle magazine and ensure that you can read more about better businesses every month.
- [29:55]
Interviewer
You can also follow us and catch.
- [29:56]
Tom Edwards
Up with the archive of past shows wherever you get your audio.
- [30:00]
Interviewer
If you'd like to get in touch.
- [30:01]
Tom Edwards
Do drop a note to Laura. She's on lrkonical.com I'm Tom Edwards. Goodbye and thanks for listening to the entrepreneurs.