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Is solar jet fuel ready for takeoff? Why Swiss and Zürich Airport are turning to sun power
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Hello and welcome to the Entrepreneurs on Monocle Radio. The show all about inspiring people, innovative companies and fresh ideas in global business. On today's program, we're heading to Zurich to meet one entrepreneur harnessing the power of the sun and another who's built a seasonal standout with with more of a focus on snow business. First, we'll meet the founder of a company turning sunshine into sustainable fuel.
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We can make fuels we don't need to change the whole infrastructure. So many of the things where trillions and trillions have been invested could be reused seamlessly.
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And later, we'll check in with one of the core initiators of Zurich's winter markets to hear how she's spreading Christmas cheer to new cities.
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We need to understand from our partners what is the sparkle of Christmas or festive season for them.
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This is the Entrepreneurs with me. Tom Edwards, You're listening to the entrepreneurs. Dr. Gianluca Ambrosetti is a physicist and the co founder and co CEO of Sinhelion, a green technology company that converts sunlight into fuel. Since its launch in 2016, Sinhelion has taken a collaborative approach to bringing its products to global scale. Less than a decade into the journey, its groundbreaking solar made fuels are already attracting major partners including Swiss Zurich Airport and amag, the Swiss automotive group. Conveniently, Sinhelion is also based just around the corner from Monocle's Zurich HQ. So Gianluca popped by at Dufossrasse 90 to explain how the idea behind Sinhelion first took shape and how the company's pushing this technology from the lab to commercial scale. He began by telling me where the journey really started.
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It goes back to the years prior when I was working in the field of high temperature solar, or what back then I thought was high temperature concentrated solar. We were working with ETH Zurich with the company I was working for and I was always getting there and meeting people and I was seeing what they were doing in this lab. We were not working yet on the subject that would become Cinelion. We were working in the same lab from these people doing this kind of weird stuff. And I was asking myself, what are they, these guys doing renewable fuels made with the sun? This sounds really, really crazy, but actually, you know, with the time being there, it got under my skin. So in 2016, together with Philipp Furler, the other co founder and co CEO and some early supporters and personnel, we decided, you know, to try to really bridge these into the market and try to scale those technologies and, you know, to really make an impact, you know, to go away from the lab. And this was 2016. So I mean, back then it was not yet like. So let's say there was not yet a broader knowledge around the possibility to make fuels in a sustainable way. I remember my sister saying my brother is transforming water into gasoline. It sounded like really esoteric and. Yeah, so this was back then and it was exciting and it was, you know, far away from everything now we have, of course, gone a long way in coming much closer to, let's say, commercial reality.
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Well, yeah, and I guess one of the things that underpins the foundational advantages that you are seeking to leverage here is this idea that the technologies, the innovations you're driving don't require the same level of modification to other existing hierarchies and infrastructure. If we think about, I don't know, engine technology, fuel infrastructure, this is often the conversation is it around renewables, is that there's a complex secondary infrastructure is one of the advantages. And it speaks to the scaling question as well, Gianluca, that the technologies you're developing don't require the same kind of corollary reinvestment and re engineering. Is that fair to say, is exactly.
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The central point or one of the most central points? And this is also what intrigued me at the beginning is like, you know, this is a fundamental tool in our toolbox for decarbonization. You know, we can make fuels green. We don't need to change the whole infrastructure, the whole vehicle, spark the whole, you know, so many of the things where trillions and trillions have been invested could be reused seamlessly. The challenge was back then how to find ways in doing these which are, as you say, scalable and with scale reach low production cost. But we believe that now, years later, this is clear that this is possible. So it's really, really, you know, possible to produce at scale at affordable cost. So this is now really, I believe, really a fundamental tool in the toolbox that can be introduced without so much less disruption than other pathways that have been promoted over the years.
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Gianluca, I'm going to set you a challenge. I have to say with one caveat here. I am not an expert in concentrated solar power. I don't know a lot about photo photovoltaics. I can't even say it. The photovoltaics industry. So give me a quick intro about just how this technology works. Sun to liquid or your sister's water to fuel, how does this work exactly? In sort of relative layman's terms?
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At the end of the day, it boils down to something fairly simple is when you burn a fuel, the fuel releases a lot of energy, you know, this heat that drives the process. And as a chemical product, you have CO2 and water vapor. Now the trick is to revert the combustion process. So basically you take the chemical products, you stick them in a process or a series of processes to come back to the fuel. Now, it's obvious that the fuel releases a lot of energy, so you will need to stick in a lot of energy into this process. And of course, you may have several energy sources that are renewable and available you could take. Biomass is a very important part in these Toyokutu biofuels we do use as a fundamental energy input. We use the power from the sun, so typically through either photovoltaics and electricity or concentrated solar to generate high temperature heat, you know, so and with this high temperature heat coming from the sun, we embed it into the chemical energy of the fuel. So this is, let's say a bit, the particularity of cinelion using this high temperature heat, heat generated with the sun. But more broadly, basically the whole game goes into sticking again, energy into the products of combustion so that you can basically invert it and come back to the fuel.
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And how close does this process get then in terms of carbon neutrality or, you know, limiting or reducing the net kind of deficit on the planet? Gianluca. Because it sounds, well, it sounds almost too good to be true in a way, but what kind of performance can it deliver once it hits the kind of scale that your, you and your colleagues are trying to reach?
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So if you look at it per se, it's a closed circle. You know, the carbon that is emitted when the fuel is burned is the same carbon that it is picked up somewhere else and put back in the process. So the process per se could be neutral. However, when you do a proper lifecycle analysis of the effective emission reductions of your fuel, you need to consider that there is of course, also energy and for emissions embedded in the construction of the plant, in some of the backup when you are connected to the grid or things like these. So the typical figures that we see in our fuels are minus 80, minus 85% CO2 emissions and even minus 90, so a significant reduction. So we're really talking about basically, you know, fuels with, I would say almost the fossilized fuels.
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Yeah, it's incredible. Let me ask you about one of the other components which is important in any ambitious process or innovation or business of this type. And that's the critical importance of broader collaboration. Right. And partnership. We know where we face A crisis where we face urgent needs. We must all work together. Talk to me a little bit about your partnerships because there are some really interesting ones, ones that I think just because of Monocle, they jump out at us. Your work with Swiss, of course, Zurich Airport, there number of exemplars. And to my mind these are partnerships which are with other like minded institutions, right? People who are interested in moving the needle in innovation, in doing that while still maintaining premium positions in whatever their market is. What do you look for, Gianluca, in the partners with whom that you do collaborate?
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I mean, of course we do believe deeply in partnerships. We have them on the technology side as well as on the off taker customer sides, as you mentioned. Swiss, the Lufthansa Group, the airport of Zurich. Those are really very relevant for us. I mean the technological ones help us to scale the technology to shoulder with us some of the technological risks to help us with their experience. While the off takers aside, they show, and this is really fundamental, they show that there is a demand for what we are doing and that there is an interest that these technologies scale. We are not at scale yet. We need support to scale to come down with production costs. It's central to understand that you will need large installations that demand large investments to be able to produce at low costs all technologies, not only synonyms technology, but all of them. And for this we need support now. And pioneering customers, visionary partners are what help us to do this directly because of the support that they give us, but also indirectly because they project that there is real interest. So investors see that actually is just not seen alien going out and telling the story that it's amazing the fuels that we do, but actually that we have customers wanting to buy those fuels and even taking in the early days a premium on let's say other sources of fuel.
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Let me just ask you about the facility with which the technology can work seamlessly without those modifications. I alluded to this earlier and I know that you. Well, was it the first car that was powered by solar gas, which was this 85 Audi? And I'm probably asking you this Jennica because it's one of my favorites, the Quattro.
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It's.
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It's an amazing, it's iconic. If you love your, if you love your, your motoring, how did you. What. How and why did you pick that. That vehicle? And tell us a bit about that process.
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We have also a very important partner for the road and this is Amag partner and investor in Cine is the importer of the Volkswagen Group. In Switzerland. And with them we picked up this car, which is of course, amazing. You know, I'm born in the 70s, so I remember the big Ruparelli. And, you know, so when this car was chosen, my heart started to it, as I remember this car. And so we wanted to show, you know, that, you know, that these fuels that are undisputedly needed for aviation. We know that aviation cannot forego for its the fossilization target and emission reduction target, the use of sustainable aviation fuel. But we wanted to show that this applies to the car sector. And we are not in competition with electrification. We do not want to say that we are what is needed instead of electrification, but we are complementary. And of course, where complementarity comes out is the existing vehicles, the 1.5 billion of cars that are around the world with IC engines. And we wanted to substantiate this and of course, you know, like taking a sort of older car such as that one, you know, with that pedigree, I think is, you know, just a very beautiful message of what renewable fuels can do in the car sector. And if you like cars, of course, you know, it's an amazing car.
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Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorites. I think we might be of similar vintage, possibly. Now, tell me about the qualities you look for. Not in external partnerships and collaborations internally. When you're hiring people with whom you want to work closely. What sort of qualities, Jenica, do you look for? You know, people maybe to join Sinhelion. Is it about curiosity? Is it a certain fearlessness? I'm guessing they have to be pretty robust intellectually. But tell me a little bit about the qualities that are most important to you.
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Yes, I mean, those are. There are things that cannot be explained. Also, sometimes I think when you meet people, it's a matter of chemistry. You know, it's like, you know, a company is like a musical band at the end of the day when it works well, you have that, you know, that the sum of the individuals is more that actually the sum of the individual. You know, there is a holistic, you know, synergic effect that makes that, you know, that that's simply like a band, you know, you have this sound coming out of it. So sometimes it's just really like a feeling that you have also for people. And I'm starting, you know, from like, let's say the more abstract part, but, you know, like more concretely. I really think that curiosity that you mentioned is a fundamental driver. Drive itself is fundamental being, you know, like, wanting to push this ahead, you know, really trying to bring Things ahead, not being pulled, but actually wanting to pull, wanting to bring your things, you know, like this kind of inner urge that you have to make this into a reality. I think those are perhaps the most important general skills. And of course there are specific skills that go from technical to, I don't know, like to less technical for non technical positions. I mean, of course this is also part of the game, but I would say really, curiosity, inner urge, a certain kind of humbleness with respect to the challenge that we are facing. You know, it's complex and you know, it's full of setbacks, it's full of sleepless nights that I can assure you. And this is part of the game, you know, it's a long run and you need to navigate a world that changes priorities that shift. All this is part of the game, this inner drive, you know, to overcome this and push it through this is I believe, perhaps one of the most fundamental things.
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Yeah, and it's funny you talk about that. The relentlessness, the sleepless nights. And I always say it's a cliche on this program that we've, we've yet to meet a kind of a lazy entre, a lazy entrepreneur on this show at least let's look forward, Chandu, because so much to be excited about because there is the prospect here of really significant change, hugely significant change at scale, as you've mentioned. And that's exciting because there's often an air of defeatism, isn't there, when we look at the scale of the challenge and the lack of momentum or the lack of willingness, particularly from certain stakeholders, often governments, you know, they're on a much shorter time horizon in terms of their political lives. They're not really, they talk a good game, but they're often not investing in the long term. Those things aside, what are you most excited about right now? Is it the next phase of development of products? Is it the next opportunity to have a proof point about scale? Is it about the changing discourse and actually people's willingness now to get more involved? What gets you springing out of bed in the morning, Gianluca, with a, with real enthusiasm each day?
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There are several things. I mean, I'm a technology person and I'm driven by technology. So for me, always trying to find things that we can do better technologically, that we can improve, that we can, you know, like that can help us. Going even further than what we went is for sure a big driver. But I would say, you know, that today the technology is on the ground. We have a plant in Germany. Planton that is working, operating, producing fuel at nominal capacity. So the true challenge now is really scale, is to make this thing big where, as I said before, you know, like the costs of fuel come down. So what now really drives me is I want to see those plants. I want to, you know, I know this can be done. And we are, by the way, not the only technology that can do this. I also want to say clearly, is not that the winner takes it all. I mean, this is energy, is not it? These technologies will eventually scale and make this and bring renewable fuels to the market at scale. And seeing these, you know, seeing the day where we have like a large part of these renewable fuels in the infrastructure is what drives me. You know, we have all the tools in the toolbox, we have it on the ground. We don't need breakthrough innovations. We can do it. We need to scale. And this is really like seeing the next steps become reality. When I see on the card, on the cad, you know, the drawings of the next step of the, you know, with all the details, the piping, the stairs and all these kind of things that you see that it is becoming real. You know, this is really a kick that you get and you say like, I want to see this. I want to see this.
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That was Gianluca Ambrozetti, the co founder and co CEO of Sinhelion. And you can find out more about this quite brilliant business by heading to to sinhelion.com. You're listening to the entrepreneurs. Katja Weber is the co founder and creative force behind Zurich's much beloved Christmas markets. The project began more than 20 years ago when Katya moved to the city from the German French border region and was somewhat surprised at the absence of the kind of traditional Christmas markets she'd grown up with. Since the opening of their first market in 2015, Katja and her team have continually expanded. Now in seven additional locations. Katja stopped by our studio at Duvostrasse 90 to discuss the international expansion with this week's first opening of their Paris location, Noel la Villette. Katja began by telling me about the start of the journey and how Monocle's own Tyler Brulee was something of a Santa's helper in the process.
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When I came to Zurich, which is already more than 20 years ago, I expected a Christmas market. How I knew it well, I grew up at the French border in Germany. There the tradition of Christmas markets in the season before Christmas is like super natural. I grew up with this and I expected Switzerland with the mountains where you have the Snowy picture. Anyways, already in the back of your mind. And there was nothing. Which I expected to find. And I was not disappointed, but more like inspired, wanting something like this. And then 20 years ago I got the idea and 10 years later we were able to grow our or to develop and build our very, very first market. It's the 10th year at Bellevue this year, so we have really an anniversary. When I created our very first Christmas market, 2014-15. Tyler was in St. Moritz and I was talking to him about that, doing this pitch for the Christmas market. We all know that he also really likes this festive season and all those things that are going on there. And so he told me of this Christmas market that he saw in Sutirol. So he kind of gave me the one or the other hint or inspiration how to make our markets special. But when you start and you don't see the big picture, already ordered the objective or what came out of this, now it's. You go step by step. And we had a lot of obstacles in our way. And my very first Christmas market was actually indoors. Tiny markets with a little bit of food, with a lot of tiny production designers, Local designers. Yeah, and crew with them together. And they're still, some are still part of our network. They developed amazingly on this way as well. We created food markets and then they became part of our network. And yeah, it all developed into what you see today. And I'm also a little bit proud of all of us because it's a collective thing, It's a collective success story. Not just mine, not just ours, it's us.
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No, absolutely. And I think it's because it's built on those values that Christmas should be about, you know, community and sharing and celebrating. Let's talk a little bit about a couple of the specific kind of venues because as you said, you've consolidated, you've grown, you have the sort of the food market. There's the Weihnachtdorf village, actually very near where you are, right near Monaco hq just down the road. How much do you have to tailor the specific offer to the particular geography?
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When we started the Christmas market at Bellevue in Zurich, I said, you cannot do this somewhere else. I was so proud and said, this is so specific to Zurich. And then when we started talking about it because, I mean, we started talking about. Because we were asked by other cities or people from other cities, entrepreneurs to kind of co host or partner or co developers new concepts for their city after they saw ours and said, no, no, it's not possible. This is really for Zurich. And then we started thinking and talking about what we did. We always try to think out of the perspective of the citizens, obviously. So we need to understand from our partners what is the sparkle of Christmas or festive season for them. So this is even different. When you only go one hour away to Lucerne, where we did the market some years ago, or where we co created with locals, it looks completely different. There's Rudolph is like the main thing, the animal, and a little bit more cartoony, as you would maybe find it in more traditional characters. Or in Geneva, where we are just close to the lake with this amazing international view that you get there. The market is much bigger because you have a huge space which you need to fill. We had a Ferris wheel integrated. Or now in Paris, we have a huge fountain in the middle where you can put the market around and the stalls, but also those areas where people can collect. So we try to differentiate between the. I would say the village, the design village, where people can go during the day. Everybody finds a little bit of a different niche during the day. And this is a little bit separate from where the food is and the drinks and a lot of space for people to gather. Where we have fire pits and a bit more of those. A bit of a cozy spot. So it just gets everywhere where we are a little bit of a different thing. You feel it with different colors of the stalls. It has still the essence of the other.
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I think that's really interesting that you say it's definitely recognizably the same, but it's very, very different. Because that must be. That's quite an interesting creative tension, isn't it? To make sure that places are unique and yet part of the family. Tell me about going forward then, when you look ahead into 20, 26 and beyond. Is it too soon to ask you about that? I feel bad even asking.
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Not at all. Because it has. Every year we have to build our villages again and again. So you always have to find a team and we have the basis of our team stays. But of course, since you have 10 months of break in between, you always need to find good new people and bring them together, get them to the spirit. So every year you have this basic challenge. Then it's not clear if you have the spaces again. But there are always also at other cities, chances, possibilities that we may need to look for new locations, which is a challenge. Again. In Geneva, for example, it's our third location already. Every location was inspiring to do something new, but it's also tiring, of course In a way, because if you don't have to change location, but can go into deepness, and this is something I really like. You can make it better and better every year. I don't know if this is. I mean, it's not so spectacular. Creating something new obviously is wowish. But going into the deepness and into details really makes a project better and better. And unfortunately, we also had in the last 10 years a lot of obstacles to handle in the sense of. There was the pandemic. Then we had. We really deeply wanted to work on electricity consumption, because how do we get. How can we make a event more sustainable, things like that. We had also based on the pandemic break, we had to kind of do a bit of a mind change and a new setup in our team. So there was those years where it was super hard to find the right people to support the Christmas market. We have 400 people working for us every year on the. On the Bellevue. And this is. I mean, you have to kind of multiply this by the numbers of locations that we have so far. So of course, we. We are also a huge partnership. So. And each location, each city, we have an amazing team that is taking care of the bigger team. But still, every year we do have new challenges. So if we will continue on the Bellevue, I'm super excited to think of the next five years, how we can keep this. What we have, the substance. Because I think right now it's a time for persistence or for giving people stability. So we. I'm. I don't want to do like huge changes, but we need to progress with continuous change.
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Let me just ask you, Katya, maybe just finally about. I love that you had to my mind, I think it's a new concept of wowishness, which I really love, which you just said a minute ago. Just mention a couple of specific things. So I don't know, go to a particular one of your locations, maybe a single moment. You've mentioned some already, but what are a couple of the things that give you the extra wowishness if people are planning on a visit, I don't know, maybe in Paris, this new site or one of the older sites, you know, Bellevue all these years in. Take me to a particular spot and just describe what it's like, what people will experience, why you're still so passionate about it, why it will deliver all that Christmas magic that people want.
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I'm so much of a Christmas and Christmas market lover that I would say please go and visit all of them. Every market, every location has this Uniqueness and the different smell in a way or flavor. My recommendation for this year is of course go to Paris and visit it. It's only like 4 and a half hours ride with the train from here, so you could even do both at the same weekend. But my one of my favorites. But it's also because I love the the two girls so much with whom we work there is Geneva because the city of Geneva has. This is so different from the other cities that we are could co create already. And this spot that we have there just on the lake where you are sitting in the Fond de Chalet and you have those huge windows and you can see the lake just one meter beside you and then you stroll through the market, they have beautiful vendors. I would really definitely send you there if you would say which one unique spot you want to visit. We have Illuminarium and Landesmoseum, which is a light show which is completely different from everything else and a little bit longer. But this is something that we did once and it's completely different from any other Christmas experience.
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That was Katja Weber, the core initiator of the Christmas market in Zurich and many other locations. You can find out more about those and more on their new Parisian outpost by heading to noel-la-villette.fr. And that's all for this episode of the Entrepreneurs. We'll be back at the same time next week. The programmes produced by Laura Kramer with audio editing by Jack Dewars. You can listen again and find out more about the program at end the monocle.com or follow us wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to get in touch with the team, drop a line to Laura. She's on LRK monocle.com I'm Tom Edwards. Goodbye and thanks for listening to the Entrepreneurs.