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- [00:00]
Laurent Kleitman
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Tom Edwards
Hello and welcome to the Entrepreneurs on Monocle Radio. The show all about inspiring people, innovative companies and fresh ideas in global business. On today's program, we meet the CEO of the Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group to hear about the future growth of the brand and what's next in the world of luxury hospitality.
- [00:31]
Laurent Kleitman
We've been present for centuries. Travel has always been a desire of human being to discover, to engage, to relate. And I don't see that it's coming soon to an end. And traveling is the most important activity of human beings.
- [00:45]
Tom Edwards
This is the Entrepreneurs with me. Tom Edwards, you're listening to the Entrepreneurs. For more than six decades, Mandarin Oriental has been synonymous with luxury and exceptional hospitality. What began with the opening of its flagship hotel in Hong Kong in 1963 has grown into a portfolio that now spans 44 hotels, 12 residences and 26 exclusive homes across 27 countries. The group has built a reputation for elegance, service and innovation, all while remaining proudly anchored in its Asian heritage. Today, as Mandarin Oriental writes its next chapter, it is led by group CEO Laurent Kleitman, a seasoned leader in the world of luxury brands. Laurent has spent 30 years in senior leadership roles with corporations from Unilever to lvmh. Most recently, he served as president and CEO of Parfum Christian Dior, where he guided the brand's transformation and global expansion across fragrance, beauty and wellness. Monocle's Simon Bouvier sat down with Laurent in our Paris studio to discuss where the luxury hospitality industry stands today. Mandarin Orient Oriental's recent purchase of the Lutetia in Paris and the brand starring role in season three of the White Lotus.
- [02:04]
Simon Bouvier
Laurent Clytemann, CEO of Mandarin Oriental Group, thank you so much for joining us in our Paris studio. Thank you. You were in Paris for a few days. You were based in Hong Kong. What did you get up to during your visit here?
- [02:19]
Laurent Kleitman
Well, maybe it wouldn't be a surprise, but I'm based in Hong Kong, but I'm French as well, so Paris is also a place I visit quite often for family reasons, but also for business. Paris is a fabulous place for high end luxury tourism and the market in general in Europe is very important for us. So I'm quite often in in Europe and in Paris in particular, and the.
- [02:40]
Simon Bouvier
Group just took over the legendary Lutetia Hotel. Can you tell us a little bit about how that came to be and how you're thinking about this hotel's positioning in this luxury hospitality landscape here, which, as you just said, is really incredibly abundant? There's so many options.
- [03:01]
Laurent Kleitman
Yeah, there are many options. You're right, in Paris and in France, in Paris in particular. But and as I like to say, Lutetia is not a hotel. It's part of the history. And this is what we really love because being part of the history, I mean there's so many things that you can tell and then that people visit not just for a good stay, but also to be part of a history and history of Paris. Of course, very much so. Lutetia means Paris in Latin, but also history of the world. The 115 years of history of Lutetia in fact is a short for even hospitality. If you remember how it started. It started by Boucicault, who was also the founder, was the founder of the Beaumarchais. And he built a hotel in front of the Beaumarchais to host not only clients, but suppliers coming from province and clients visiting and shopping. Therefore, at the very beginning of the history of Lutetia was already experience, which is all what it is hospitality and luxury about today. Creating an experience. You come to shop, but also you enjoy Paris lifestyle with great restaurants and great rooms and amenities and so on. So at the very beginning that hotel has been thought as part of an experience and this is really, really what hospitality is today. It's really moved forward to be creating moments. And therefore Lutecia is that kind of property unique in the world. You have a few of those around the world that really have created and are still creating the history of hospitality today and for the future.
- [04:37]
Simon Bouvier
And I think the kind of legacy aspect of this hotel is very interesting given the history of your own group. You know, your flagship hotels are the Oriental in Bangkok and in. In Hong Kong, which both have been around, I think the Oriental for 150 years or something and, and the Mandarin for. For 60 or, or decades at least. How does this kind of heritage fit into your business strategy when you're thinking about the group as a whole?
- [05:11]
Laurent Kleitman
You, you're right. We need both. We need iconic as we call them very often Grandam, those hotels who've been always there. Part of the landscape, part of the city fabric. Like in. In Bangkok. The Oriental 150 years next year. Stunning property always kept up to date and, and with a lot of innovation coming. We can even comment on that in. In. In a few minutes if you want. Same with the Mandarin in Hong Kong. 60 odd years at the time, the. The tallest building in. In the region and has invented so many things that we take for granted today, like running water and bathtubs in the rooms. So interestingly we have these grande dames that has been there, but they have been always at the beginning, very inventive and innovative. And at the same time, we need to build new. We need to build what will be hospitality in the next decades. We are opening our second hotel in Dubai in just a few weeks. It's the most sustainably built high rise tower in the Middle east, which is incredibly stimulating, seeing that we have those old properties around the world at the Ritz in Madrid, the Lutecia in Paris, or the Oriental in Bangkok, and at the same time continue to innovate with new builds. And I believe this is what gives the impetus that build what a brand like Mandarin Oriental is capable of doing. And having those properties part of our portfolio is incredibly stimulating for, for our teams and for clients.
- [06:39]
Simon Bouvier
So how do you think about that balance between making these historic properties current and inventing something that carries your name and everything that it means to your customers. But to build something that's completely new, do you see some kind of tension there or not at all?
- [06:56]
Laurent Kleitman
The common thread is the Mandarin rental brand DNA and the service that we deliver everywhere. That's what clients are looking for when they travel from one property to another. They know there we're synonymous of outstanding service, but a service with a certain style. We're born in Asia, so we're born from the delicacy of Thai culture mixed with the vibrancy of the Chinese culture from our early days in Hong Kong. So we bringing a service which is very different from what I think others are offering. And maybe one example is my own first encounter with what Mandarin rental service is. A few years ago, I mean, a decade or more ago, when I was with my kids for the first time ever in the Oriental in Bangkok. Not staying, just having dinner for the first time on the terrace of the Chao Phra river, having a meal, and of course, a young kid at the time staining their shirt with sauce and tomato sauce. And really the shirt was absolutely red everywhere. And very delicately, my wife, we were a bit shocked because we didn't want that to happen in such a place. Took the shirt off and put a T shirt and we put the shirt aside and we didn't pay attention too much. And at the end of the meal, the team came back with the shirt clean and pressed and folded and say, well, at least you won't have a stain as a souvenir for your first day at the Oriental in Bangkok. So we want you to have an experience which is completely free of any worries. And they give us a Shirt pressed. I found that quite outstanding because, you know, there's nothing in a book or in any kind of guidelines that says when there is a stain, take the shirt and press it and give it back. And this is what our service is. Our service is extremely personal, very personalized to the guest needs and to the situation. And we're empowering our colleagues to deliver what matters for you when you're with us. And I believe this is what modern hospitality is today, is making you feeling unique, making you feeling as if you were the only client at the time in the restaurant or in the hotel. So I think this is a small anecdote that has really hooked me onto that brand for many, many, many years. And when I rejoined, by the way, the maitre d' hotel who's done that, was still there and remember that anecdote, and I reminded to him and said, I think on that day he recruited the CEO of Mandarin Orientals.
- [09:26]
Simon Bouvier
That's incredible. I think that a lot of people who are fiercely loyal to a specific brand and who seek out their properties wherever they travel, whether it's for work or leisure, they all have these stories about what makes this brand go, you know, above the competition for them. And I'm curious how, you know, since you just said there's no playbook for it, I'm curious how you think about the framework that these colleagues are operating in. Are there new kind of experiences and expectations that are the baseline that you have to put this level of service on top of, or is it really all about just creating this spark through exceptional service and then all of the rest doesn't really matter as much?
- [10:18]
Laurent Kleitman
It is exceptional service delivered through people, for people. So that notion of a very human to human service is very, very dear to my heart and to all of us at Mandarin Oriental. There are guidelines and there's a lot of training that we of course have. But what is most important is that everyone is empowered to deliver what matters, and we give a lot of freedom to our colleagues to do that. That empowerment is also very stimulating and very rewarding for teams, for. For talent. You know, there is a war of talent on talent in hospitality industry. So having the possibility to tell people, yeah, you come, you're part of a brand called Mandarin Oriental, but you're more importantly a human being delivering service for clients, and then you're free to deliver it the way you believe is right is very, very engaging for talent. So having said that, we have a brand, and the brand, Mandarin Rental has to stand for what you call it exceptional giving. That exceptional every day, everywhere is our reserve mission. This is what we're encouraging everyone to do. And in that context, we are very lucky to be based on exceptional properties. So the destination is also important. You don't deliver the same service. You deliver the same kind of service, but in a different manner when you're in New York, in Madrid, in London, or in Bangkok or Hong Kong, when you're in an urban property or when you're in a resort. So that there are a lot of adaptation to the service that we are doing. And what we call delivering the essence of the destination to all of our guests is incredibly important for modern travelers.
- [12:00]
Simon Bouvier
And one thing I wanted to ask you is also, before taking the reins at Mandarin Oriental, you worked for Dior Cosmetics, and as part of that job, you oversaw this activity related to spas. Right. And I was just curious how you see the crossover between the worlds of beauty and hospitality. And if there was something that when you took this job a few years ago now, I think you thought, oh, if we implement this, we can really get ahead of the competition.
- [12:33]
Laurent Kleitman
Yeah, there's a lot of crossover between luxury goods and hospitality. Although I really believe hospitality delivering experience, as opposed to delivering a physical product is very well placed to catch the trend and the growth wave of luxury for the future. We know that the current market for goods is a little tense at the moment. There are a bit of a shift of how consumers and clients are looking at luxury goods in general. And it's a phenomenon around the world. When you have already 15 handbags, the 16s you buy is probably less exciting. Same with cosmetics. However, I haven't heard anyone saying, I don't want to take a few days off or reconnect with my family or visiting a place, discovering a museum, and going and try culinary experience somewhere. I always wanted to. So the way we deliver experience as opposed to goods is what I really believe is the future of luxury as a whole. And therefore, yes, moving from cosmetic to hospitality is interesting because you still have this attention to details, this incredible narrative that you need to deliver on a brand like Dior, but at the same time, a lot more complex. Way more complex, because if you're buying a lipstick, you may spend between 30 seconds and maybe 30 minutes. If you buy a handbag, you may spend between maybe 30 minutes and three hours and so on. With us, you are, you know, with us for a meal at the least and for up to a few. Few weeks or months, and we take care of you during your sleep, which is the most precious things that you have. So the trust that you put in brand like Mandarin Oriental to take care of the time you spend with us is given us a lot more responsibility to deliver that experience. And the touch points you have with the brand are so many and therefore the attention to every single touch points for us as a brand is extremely high. I believe there is a level of complexity which is probably the most in any of industry I've been working in. But at the same time, and to connect back to your question about cosmetic the notion of well being and self care is one of the key trends we see in hospitality. Of course you can relax and do many things for your personal beauty at home, but many people coming to a resort, for example, is to spend a week with us. They like to benefit from well being experiences. So that's why we have developed over the years many techniques on relaxation, well being, recharge and energy and managing sleep and so on and so forth. We invented the first spa hotel in the world in the 90s in Bangkok. So we are the one who've created the trend of wellness and well being in hospitality. That's a key trend we see in this or the only one. But that's a key trend which is now well developed. So yes, absolutely, a deep connection with my previous job.
- [15:39]
Simon Bouvier
How have you seen this trend evolve and where do you see it going specifically the spas and the well being, the wellness aspect of what it means to be staying at a luxury hotel today?
- [15:52]
Laurent Kleitman
You know, it's moving really from what probably many people still still do and know it's a nice relax, relaxation, massage and so on to really taking care of you holistically, making sure that everything in the property speak to your well being and it's including nutrition, for example, the way we present food to you, the way we present your amenity, the way we, for example, we are curating a completely new service. You know, in luxury hotels you have what we call a turned on service. When people prepare your room for the night, we call it the sleep ritual. So we, we have really studied that carefully and are now placing amenities which are in line with. What is so crucial nowadays is your restoration, your recovery time and your nighttime and your sleep. And we really believe this is one of the essential moment of restoration of your energy that we need to curate for you. So whether it's about the beverage are we going to curate for you, whether it's the music we're going to put, whether it's the, where we place the slippers, where we redesign the, the environment to prepare for your restoration time is the way we see, for example, well, being moving really beyond spa. And this is an example, but we have plenty of those that we are currently implementing across the portfolio.
- [17:12]
Simon Bouvier
I wanted to ask you a question about the HBO show the White Lotus, in which the Oriental is featured in the third season, to ask a broader question about kind of pop culture and how people perceive luxury hotels. Do you think it's important for you and your position, setting the kind of strategic path for your group to create these opportunities to attract attention from maybe an audience that doesn't know about the history of the Oriental, et cetera? Or is it the case that it's more about those who know know and we need to kind of focus on our loyal customer base?
- [17:54]
Laurent Kleitman
It's an interesting and complex topic that you're raising, which is the how do you communicate about a luxury hotel brand like Mandarin Oriental? Very happy to be featured in the. In season three of White Lotus. It's a funny program. It's. It's great storytelling. I don't believe this is the only way a brand should be, of course, marketed. Big brands, especially big luxury brands, large luxury brands have a role to play in pop culture that I agree. We are cultural icons for a certain target audience. And by no means we are a mass brand, but for those who know us, yeah, we need to belong to the culture. But the way to belong to the culture may be different. The way we collaborate with artists, the way we display arts in our properties, the way we design even properties with the collaboration with artists. For example, we have a project in Mexico on River Amaya in the south of Cancun that we are currently developing and building with the support of a Mexican artist, Bosco Sodi, who is the sculpture and who is helping us to integrate art in a meaningful and relevant manner across the property. I believe this is really a way to display purpose, which is another big trend of why people travel. People travel to connect to a culture, to connect with a community Equally. When it comes to shows like White Lotus, I want to also say that we also curate our own assets ourselves. We recently launched a program called Inside the Dream, which is you can find it on platforms at the moment, which showing the coulees and all the backstage of Mandarin Oriental across three properties, I'm saying we have now the power as a big luxury brand to create our own programs as well. So we started with Inside the Dream and there'll be a lot more programs and many more assets that will come in the next few months and you'll see that will showcase Mandarin rental in a very different manner. Everywhere. There is a good narrative when it comes to Mandarin rental, and the narrative is always at the crossroad of the property and the destination. You cannot take a destination and a property out of context. So there is, I think you'll see a new series coming where we're going to feature the property and the history of the property and how that property blends with the community and the history of the place. And the destination itself. We call that really, as I said, for clients who really want that, delivering the essence of the destination. This is why you travel, of course. I'd like to think that travel to go to a Mandarin Oriental and, and they do, but they do travel. You travel to a location first. You know, that's the destination that matters.
- [20:42]
Simon Bouvier
And you know, besides this kind of very innovative, I think, approach to communicating about your, your group, you mentioned earlier in the interview other innovations that are upcoming for your business. Can you tell us more about them?
- [20:56]
Laurent Kleitman
Yeah, we, we have a very recent innovation just launched which is our new mobile app. Well, that might sound a bit trivial now after having spoken about art and artists and so on, but the reality is that technology plays a key role in traveling today and taking off the hassle of traveling, taking off from you, all the problems of pre travel and booking and so on. So we came up with a mobile app which is being just rolled out across all our properties where you can engage with us in a very seamless manner. And we're doing that very often. I heard that luxury and technology doesn't work together. We need to remain human. And I said that's exactly why we need technology, is to really release more time for human beings to interact with you as a client, as a human being. If we can take as many things out of the equation and make the technology work harder, then you have a good quality time with the concierge who will advise you what place to visit, with the chef who will help you to curate the meal you want. But the conversation around why my car was not at the airport or will my car be there to pick me up, I don't think they are adding much value. And therefore this is what we will going to put through the technology which is there today as an example of experience. I'd rather you have time to engage with the chef in our resort in Greece in Costa Navarino to pick your fish in the morning, with the fisherman that comes to the jetty and that will curate for you a meal just for you, rather than worrying about Mundane things about booking and travel programs. So this is where I see innovation coming to release even more time for you to enjoy the destination and the experience of Mandarin Oriental.
- [22:45]
Simon Bouvier
And kind of an adjacent question that overlaps with technology and with this human contact and enjoying yourself and being in the moment. What do you think about these policies of some hotels that say in this area you're not allowed to have your cell phone, you're not allowed to have your laptop.
- [23:04]
Laurent Kleitman
That's a good one. You know, a big trend in hospitality in general is about privacy. If you really travel to one of our property and spend the money that goes with it, you really want to be in the moment. In the moment. I believe there are places where, yes, having your phone with you might not be the best way to be in the moment and enjoying the space. Although I don't think we can prescribe to people what they do or don't. I mean, we are very much for freedom. People do what they want to do on our property and if they enjoy their phone, as long as they, they understand that the real luxury is being with others. The real luxury is the connection with their loved ones if they travel with other people or even learning something about the place and the community they're in at the moment. But there are some obvious places where, yes, I mean, if you're really enjoying a great recharge moment in our spa, I would not recommend you to be bothered by your emails and phones notifications for sure.
- [24:03]
Simon Bouvier
And the privacy aspect of it, of course, you, you have clients who are high profile and who don't want to be harassed by people who are chasing them around to take their photo and so on and so forth. How tricky is that for you to balance when you're thinking up of a policy for that?
- [24:20]
Laurent Kleitman
It's a way we are designing our hotels and our resorts and having more and more places which are potentially hidden from the rest is very important when we design the architecture of our hotels. Private villas are very much on demand within hotel, within resorts. So yeah, we're very used to that and maintaining the privacy of our client is our number one criteria when it comes to delivering the service.
- [24:46]
Simon Bouvier
One final question I wanted to ask you after this tour de reason is we're obviously in a geopolitical context that makes long term decision making for business a bit complicated because we don't know about tariffs, we don't know about so many things that we took for granted that are now up in the air. As a brand that has operated these properties that have been around for over A century. Obviously you know how to navigate the kind of fluctuations in context, how much is what is going on right now weighing on your business decisions and how do you balance the long term and the kind of short term.
- [25:36]
Laurent Kleitman
We've been here, we've been present for centuries and some of our properties are, yeah, more than 150 years old. Travel has always been a desire of human being to discover, to engage, to relate. And I don't see that it's coming soon to an end. And to the contrary, I believe traveling is probably the most important activity of human beings. Discovering others, engaging with different culture, looking at different landscapes and discovering the world and the people around the world will not fade soon. Of course, short term there might be issues here and there and we all any economic activity we see, of course, ups and downs. But our hotels are usually thought for several decades when we come to a place. So we are on one side, of course, we're managing shorter performances, but we haven't seen, for example, a big shift in the way our clients are traveling this year compared to last year. To the contrary, we see a very good growth of our business. But even more important, there are many destinations that still needs to be discovered. Creating destinations, respecting communities and nature when we come somewhere is of course primary importance. But having more destination around the world for discovery is definitely going to happen. I'm very optimistic about the growth of the hospitality industry because people want experiences, you want to discover things you haven't seen. And more importantly, you want time. And the real luxury is time with your loved ones, time with yourself to reconnect with yourself, time to discover something that is worth of discovery. And our job is to curate that for you, making it for you an exceptional moment. So I am very optimistic about the future of Mandarin Oriental. Will double the size of the company in the next 10 years. And I'm sure we'll be there for the decades to come. A lot of work to do, but certainly very optimistic about the future of the industry.
- [27:27]
Tom Edwards
That was Lauren Kleitman, CEO of the Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group. You can find out more by heading to mandarin oriental.com and that's all for this episode of the Entrepreneurs. We'll be back at the same time next week. The program's produced by Laura Kramer with audio editing by Jack Dewas. Listen again and find out more about the show@monacle.com or follow us and browse the archive wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to get in touch with the team, email Laura on lrkonical.com. i'm Tom Edwards. Goodbye, and thanks for listening to the entrepreneurs.
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Laurent Kleitman
Sam.