Podcast Summary: The Entrepreneurs – “Why ‘Fake it till you make it’ is terrible for business”

Podcast: The Entrepreneurs (Monocle Radio)
Episode Date: November 12, 2025
Host(s): Tom Edwards, (Monocle Radio team)
Featured Guests: Joanna Jensen, Anna Zimmermann
Theme: Honest, authentic entrepreneurship and breaking barriers in business and craft.

Episode Overview

This episode of The Entrepreneurs explores the pitfalls of the “fake it till you make it” mentality in business, instead championing authenticity, strong values, and openness. It features a candid interview with Joanna Jensen—founder of Childs Farm skincare and author of "Making Business Child’s Play"—offering guidance driven by experience, empathy, and hard-won lessons. The show also travels to Vienna to meet Anna Zimmermann, the creator of the Feminist Welding Club, who is redefining access and empowerment in the world of metalwork.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joanna Jensen on Learning, Legacy, and Writing for Entrepreneurs

Joanna Jensen shares the motivation behind her new book and the lessons she's learned:

• Book Motivation: Jensen wrote “Making Business Child’s Play” to quickly impart what took her years to learn, aiming to empower fellow entrepreneurs—especially those starting with little insider knowledge.

  • “Some things took me months, if not years, to learn. I can now share them in minutes.” (01:48, Joanna Jensen)

• Addressing Knowledge Gaps: Emphasizes the importance of industry connections and the reality of social capital challenges, particularly for female founders.

  • “You don't know what you don't know, right?... I just wanted to avoid that issue for as many people as possible...” (02:50, Joanna Jensen)

• Writing Process:

  • The book was cathartic and collaborative, bringing up both technical and deeply personal stories (04:00–05:52).
  • Notable emotional moment: Her illustrator’s story of being able to afford life-saving treatment because of shares in Childs Farm.
  • “It was one of the most emotional things. And I think all of us leave a legacy, don't we?” (05:18, Joanna Jensen)

• Importance of Relationships: Jensen highlights the long-term value of genuine relationships with suppliers, investors (“my three Andrews”), and collaborators.

  • “I would say pretty much most of the suppliers and certainly my core investors are still my mates…these are really important things.” (05:53, Joanna Jensen)

• A Handbook For All Stages: The book is both a primer for new entrepreneurs and a “health check” for established brands.

  • “Have a look, execute an MOT on your business. Because there’s elements…that I will talk to brands that are scaling now that they simply haven't covered.” (07:50, Joanna Jensen)

2. Authenticity, Ethics, and the Problem with “Fake It”

Jensen calls out the dangers of faking, superficial marketing, and inauthentic brand-building:

• On Knowing Your Consumer:

  • “In the days of Meta, there seems to be this misunderstanding that Meta knows who your consumer is. I can assure you Meta doesn't. And frankly, Meta doesn't care either. You need to know who your consumer is.” (08:12, Joanna Jensen)

• Marketing Beyond Influencers:

  • She rejects influencers as credible endorsers for vulnerable consumers (like children) and champions word-of-mouth and consumer advocacy.
  • Story about her children’s interest in celebrity-endorsed beauty brands:
    “Do you really think she uses her own products?...That’s a large porcupine, because it’s simply not true. And I think we need to cut through this…horseshit about branding.” (10:15–11:10, Joanna Jensen)
  • Good brands grow through authentic love from real consumers.

• On Authenticity:

  • “You can’t bolt the authenticity on. You’re either authentic or you’re not, right? It’s baked in from the outset.” (11:37, Interviewer)

• On Values and Profitability:

  • “Profitability versus ethics and values. It’s not a choice. Your ethics and values should be at the top of your decision making process.” (11:59, Joanna Jensen)
  • Advocates for sustainability and ethical manufacturing as business fundamentals.

• Consumer Trends & Ethics:

  • The modern, demanding consumer looks for genuine purpose, value, and ethics in brands.
  • “Anyone who is not clear on their strategy and their purpose and why they’ve been created can get blown in the breeze…Consumers aren’t fools anymore.” (13:12, Joanna Jensen)

• Observations on Industry Trends:

  • Growth sectors: gut health, ethical European manufacturing (notably Portugal’s B Corp scene).
  • Customers increasingly prioritize transparency about origin, ethics, and impact.

• Examples of Authentic, Ethical Grit:

  • Cites several success stories:
    • Freja Bone Broth: “Absolutely on fire…full of collagen…they are doing brilliantly.”
    • Hunter and Gather: “Condiments which are free of sugar and free of seed oils…again on fire.”
    • The Gut Stuff: “An app that allows you to really understand what you’re consuming…absolutely blowing the lights out.” (15:39, Joanna Jensen)
  • Common traits: Founders’ total commitment, deep consumer understanding, adherence to strategy, ability to pivot.

• Real Lessons:

  • The “fake it” approach is unsustainable—brands need strategy, discipline, and a direct connection to their real consumer base.
  • “There is this panic…they would rather spend 100 grand a month on something, they don’t know what it’s going to do…than actually pause and rethink their strategy.” (18:40, Joanna Jensen)
  • Warns about administration and failure when brands chase growth at the expense of fundamentals.

3. The True Reward: Making a Difference

• Jensen’s ultimate hope is real impact, not accolades:
  • “If somebody…say[s], Joanna, this was the Bible. This helped me to do X, Y and Z…that would delight me…” (20:00, Interviewer; 19:59, Joanna Jensen)
  • “That’s not out of any form of vanity… just to know that it was worth doing it.” (20:39, Joanna Jensen)

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Some things took me months, if not years, to learn. I can now share them in minutes.” – Joanna Jensen, 01:48
• “You don’t know what you don’t know, right?” – Joanna Jensen, 02:50
• “It was one of the most emotional things. And I think all of us leave a legacy, don’t we?” – Joanna Jensen, 05:18
• “Have a look, execute an MOT on your business…” – Joanna Jensen, 07:50
• “Meta doesn’t care either. You need to know who your consumer is.” – Joanna Jensen, 08:20
• “You can’t bolt the authenticity on. You’re either authentic or you’re not…” – Interviewer, 11:37
• “Your ethics and values should be at the top of your decision making process.” – Joanna Jensen, 11:59
• “There is this panic. I need to sell more…I have seen too many businesses already…go into administration.” – Joanna Jensen, 18:40

Segment: Anna Zimmermann and the Feminist Welding Club (Vienna)

(21:25–29:04)

1. Breaking Barriers in Metalwork

• Anna Zimmermann: Swiss-German designer in Vienna, founder of the Feminist Welding Club, aiming to democratize access to welding and challenge gender stereotypes.
  • “I taught myself how to weld as an act of self empowerment.” (00:45, Anna Zimmermann; 24:07)
• Explains metalwork as forgiving and empowering, in contrast to the exclusionary, often sexist environment in the industry.
  • “So much of metal work is gatekept by men…” (23:15, Anna Zimmermann)
• Details about hostile workshop environments (“the only women I’d ever encountered in those spaces are the naked women on the wall.” - 24:07)
• The club is modeled after book or knitting clubs, intentionally playful but with a subversive edge.
  • “It’s not about the perfect welded line. It’s more about overcoming a fear…” (25:20)

2. Empowerment and Community

• Workshop participants’ experiences:

  • Women felt empowered to try a craft often withheld from them.
  • “It just needs somebody who takes five minutes and explain you.” (22:24, Workshop Participant)

• Openness and Creativity:

  • Participants are encouraged to make functional or sculptural objects they design themselves (e.g., cups, vases, loo roll holders).

• Emotional Reward:

  • Zimmermann reflects on the growing demand and her initial apprehension at being openly feminist and “provocative.”
  • “At first, I was quite impressed because it took me quite some courage to be that outspoken about feminism and welding…” (27:58, Anna Zimmermann)
  • “I hope people see how beautiful metal can be and welding can be and that it doesn’t necessarily need to be intimidating.” (28:33, Anna Zimmermann)

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 01:48: Joanna Jensen on why she wrote her book and the SME ecosystem
• 02:50: On knowledge gaps and insider information
• 04:00–05:52: Emotional stories from the Childs Farm journey
• 07:50: Book as a tool for “MOT” or business health check
• 08:12: The Meta misconception—on knowing your consumer
• 10:15–11:10: Influencer marketing skepticism
• 11:59: On values being integral to decision-making
• 13:12–15:39: Changing consumer behavior and sectors with strong ethics
• 18:40: The peril of chasing growth over fundamentals
• 19:59–21:12: The true reward of helping entrepreneurs
• 22:24: Feminist Welding Club participant on empowerment
• 23:15: Anna Zimmermann on the challenges in metalwork
• 24:07: The club's origin in response to exclusion
• 25:20: How the club operates and its creative approach
• 28:33: Zimmermann on her hopes for the club’s impact

Memorable Moments

• Joanna Jensen’s story of how giving shares to her illustrator enabled her to afford life-saving surgery was deeply moving and encapsulates the real-world impact of authentic business (04:00–05:52).
• Her sharp deconstruction of influencer culture and the “fake it” myth: “I think we need to cut through this...horseshit about branding.” (11:10, Joanna Jensen)
• Anna Zimmermann learning to weld out of self-empowerment, then teaching others in an inclusive, “feminist” club as an act of reclaiming space in a male-dominated trade (24:07).

Episode Takeaways

• Faking it is a shortcut to disaster in modern business; authenticity, customer knowledge, and values drive lasting success.
• Books like Jensen’s distill years of experience into practical guidance for both new and seasoned entrepreneurs.
• Legacy isn’t just about profit—it’s about positive, personal impact.
• Empowerment in traditionally exclusive crafts (like welding) can be achieved by changing who gets to set the rules, as Anna Zimmermann demonstrates.
• Communities built around inclusion reshape industries and redefine what’s possible.

For more:

• Joanna Jensen’s “Making Business Child’s Play” is out now (Kogan Page).
• Learn about the Feminist Welding Club at: theworldingclub.com

Perfect for: Entrepreneurs, aspiring founders, investors, advocates of ethical business, and anyone interested in new approaches to legacy and empowerment in both business and craft.