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- [00:00]
Jack
Foreign. Hello, Karen.
- [00:20]
Karen
Hello, Jack. How are you today?
- [00:22]
Jack
Yeah, yeah, today's good. Today's a good day. We've been a busy week. Busy week, but productive week. And we're already rattling into episode three, so something's going right.
- [00:32]
Karen
I know, I can't believe it. We're just steaming through them now, aren't we, Sea folks, when we get going, there is no stopping us. We're on it, definitely.
- [00:41]
Jack
But you know what happened last. Last week. You mentioned about our season sponsor, which is great, the guys at Redbox, but we didn't mention our other two sponsors, did we? So we ought to quickly mention them as well. So go on, you mentioned the shout out one. I'll mention the quickfire.
- [00:55]
Karen
So just want to say a big thank you to Jan Denning and all of her partners at the Hospitality partnership for joining us in this season. We appreciate your support and Janny's a big, big fan of the podcast, so we do appreciate your lovely words. So thank you.
- [01:10]
Jack
Yeah, it is, it is. Jan's a lovely lady and her partnership do some great work. So thanks ever so much for that. And then for our quick fire round, we have the team at Fuchsia Exhibition and Conference Services, a team that I know very well, have worked with for a number of years and we go way, way back. So, yeah, Nick and the team, we appreciate their support as always.
- [01:34]
Karen
We do.
- [01:35]
Jack
But how do we introduce this week's guests? In fact, I want to give you the honor because I don't know how to really introduce this gentleman.
- [01:43]
Karen
No, that is a good question because I was going to do it through the medium of dance and mime, but obviously nobody can see that because he's a larger than life character and those people that have worked with him or had the privilege of being on his team will know that when he starts to talk that his career is incredible and he's probably worked on every event that you would have in your portfolio as an event to work on. We were really lucky that we could actually get him because it's been so hard to kind of match Diaries up and yeah, he's just doing, I mean, incredible things. So we are really lucky to be to have Martin Green CB on the podcast with us. So. And I think, yeah, you're going to love him as much as we did, so appreciate your thoughts and comments afterwards.
- [02:27]
Emma Coldridge
Thanks, Jack and Karen. Here at Redbox Events, we take pride in our ability to find a full turnkey solution to all of your ticketing and Wi fi needs, offering full management from your first online Ticket sale to a managed box office, direct banking. All while helping you find the perfect WI fi and CCTV package for your needs, keeping your customers safe and your event running smoothly. Experience better with Redbox proudly sponsoring the Events Insight podcast.
- [03:00]
Karen
So today we are very excited to have this person with us. It took a while, it's quite a while to get this arranged due to busy, busy diaries on all parts. So I want to introduce Martin to you. I'm not going to say any more because I want him to introduce who he is and what he does now, what his role is and responsibilities are. So we. Welcome to the podcast. Martin, nice to have you with us.
- [03:24]
Martin Green
It's great to be here. Thank you very much for having me. I'm sorry it took a while. And if you want me to introduce myself, my name's Martin Green and I am the Vice President of Global Live Events for Tate, essentially producing large scale events around the world. Tate are one of the biggest companies that maybe people have never heard of, but we cover rock and roll, we cover theater, we cover theme parks, cruise ships and global live events. We have offices in, in Los Angeles, New York, London, Saudi, Dubai and Japan. If you saw Rihanna fly through the super bowl, that was us. If you are looking at Taylor Swift, that was us. If you've been into a theater, anyone in, anywhere in the world, it's probably us. So we, yeah, we're, we're. It's great to be part of that company.
- [04:16]
Jack
And I think, I think what's, what's interesting, Martin, having had a brief chat with you prior to today, is how you've got to that stage. And what we always like to investigate with our guests is to see how they really entered the industry and the steps that they've taken along that journey. Because sometimes it's a nice smooth journey in terms of where you got to, sometimes it can go backwards and forwards, left and right. So would you mind sort of sharing with our listeners in terms of where did this all start? Where did this passion for the industry start? How early was it? And then some of those, some of those bits along the way that really stick out as a point of view for you?
- [04:56]
Martin Green
Well, I think the first thing I always want to say to people is that I went to a comprehensive school in Essex, so I think it's really important to let people know that there's no silver spoons here. My daddy didn't know anyone and so it was a product of a bit of graft, bit of good luck, beer, right time, right place and hopefully people appreciate what I was doing. I'm also going to say that I've been in meetings non stop for two days, so if I'm a bit hoarse, it's not the podcast, it's me. So listen, I studied theater and I came out of studying theater. I never wanted to be a performer. I was always interested in being a producer or a director or just an enabler. And I came out of that and I got a job in events, small scale, doing product launches and, you know, drink openings and fashion shows and things like that. And I really liked it. And because it seemed to me to be just like theater. There was an audience, there was a stage, there was something going on and it was live. And that, I think that was the really important thing. And I guess the break was getting a job at the mayor's office for the then. For the then mayor, Ken Livingstone, and five years of doing public events and that really ignited a passion for what events can do to bring communities together to be used as marketing tools, etc. Etc. And towards the end of my five years there, we bid for and won the Olympic Games. And although I left at that point to go and work for AEG and be part of the team that opened the O2, which was my first sort of commercial job, I kept my foot in. And when, when the job for Head of Ceremonies came up, I went for it and I got it. And so I then spent five, six years of my life producing not only the opening and closing ceremonies of the Games and the Paralympics, but also the torch relays, the welcome ceremonies, the medal ceremonies, and if you don't cock a job like that up and you don't have to leave the country in shame, then that's a real ignition point and you get some choices in your career. And so after that, I was asked to go and run Hull City of Culture. I was then asked to go and be the Chief Creative Officer for the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham. And then that sort of chapter of my life finished with, well, I'm going to say being asked to do Eurovision, I won't tell a lie, getting my elbows out and saying that's my job, because it was the thing I'd always wanted to do in my life. Then after that, deciding that. So that finished a chapter and I wanted to do more internationally and more commercially and that's how I've ended up working for Tate. So that's the real potted history. It took a while and there have been many adventures in between with the Tour de France and working in Dubai and advising The Japanese Olympics, but that was the basic thing. But, yeah, you're talking, you know, 15, 20 years.
- [07:59]
Jack
I'm going to go right back to the beginning, what you said there about the silver spoon and the comprehensive schools. And I think we're going through a lot of change in the education system at the minute. And. And you probably, like me, there was never such a thing as event management in terms of studying when we were at school. It was. It was trying to find a niche that you really enjoyed doing something that would get you to school that could have been a teacher, that could have been a single subject, but something that kept you in, engaged in something. And I'm just, Just wondering what was yours? You know, what was that one thing that. Or that one person that really got you engaged in wanting to continue that education and that route into performance?
- [08:40]
Martin Green
It was drama class and it was a teacher called Ms. John. I. I took. I didn't actually take drama until A levels. It was theater studies. And that was because towards the end of my gcses, the school did a production of Midsummer Night's Dream. And I happened. I mean, this is such a classic story. I happened to walk into the school hall and they were rehearsing it, and Ms. John said, have you got anything to do? Well, no. Go sit by that guy in the lighting desk. He needs some help. And I was gone, hook, line and sinker. It was a magical world and it just stole my heart. And so there was always the desire to run, create, see performance in live space. I mean, little did I know then where it was going to lead. I mean, it was. You know, now it seems unfathomable, but that led to me telling my parents that I didn't want to do hotel management, wanted to do theatre studies, which they were gracious enough to. To go, okay, then. And then, you know, that. That sort of led that way. You're right. You know, the. The event management scene's got a lot better. I'm going up to do a talk at Sheffield University tomorrow, which has got one of the best event management courses in the country. Lee's Met does. You know, there's a lot more. I wasn't aware of it 100 years ago when I was going to university. I think we still probably don't teach producing enough. And I think the role of the producer and the creative producer is absolutely key. And that's why, when I can, I go and talk about that and I get involved in that kind of stuff. And obviously there's still a lack of diversity in the Industry, but I think that is gradually getting a little bit.
- [10:24]
Jack
Better when I'm talking to peers. And I've done a few talks to universities as well. We're invited in to talk to event management students. And actually, if you think about our industry, there are so many different courses at university that have an impact in terms of our industry. So the last one I did, I actually said, I'll come in and talk to you, but please open it up to anyone, any students that are interested in events, they don't have to be on the event management course, you know, because you do have the best technicians, the best technical people who are studying computer technique. You know, you've got some creative people who are into art and design who are going to be doing some of the best backdrops to stage and theater that you can think of, but they're not in the events industry course. And I think that's something that we also need to own a little bit more, you know, that we, we need to capture this resource from across different courses, not just the event management courses, because our industry can and should be pulling in because we're, we're competing with this talent, you know, this talent pool.
- [11:30]
Martin Green
It's really interesting. I think that's fascinating. You say that, and I'm going to nick that from you because I'm going to do the same thing. Because, you know, what have I done today? I've spent most of my day with a bunch of brilliant engineers figuring out how to cantilever something from a beach into the sea. Right. And you're at. You're absolutely right. You know, Tate. Tate is stuffed full of builders and engineers and designers because we designed sets and we. We designed how to fly people across space. So you're absolutely right. You know, the people we work with every day now have come through a variety of different resources and sources. So I'll nick that one from you, actually, and I'll do the same.
- [12:09]
Jack
It's, it's, it's great because it really is that, you know, from my perspective. And that's not saying that we want them all on event management courses either at university. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that we need all those variety of skills to come into our sector, you know, including the event management students, but we need to really try and pull those different. And that starts, for me, that starts right back at college time as well. When people are looking at apprenticeships, when people are looking at what courses they're wanting to do, it's saying, yeah, go be an Electrician, because we need the best electricians coming into our industry. You know, you don't have to be doing electrics in housing installations or in factories. You can come and do it on a set or you can come and do it on a, on a trade show. And it's just opening their eyes to the possibility of what their interest is and how it can be applied to different sectors, you know, ours and others.
- [12:58]
Martin Green
Yeah, you're totally right. That's really interesting. It's a really interesting point of view.
- [13:02]
Karen
Do you think, Martin, that from when you started out in the world of events, do you think the role of the planner or like the coordinator or the event manager has changed in that time? And if. Yes, how do you think it's changed?
- [13:17]
Martin Green
That's a really interesting question. I kind of want to say it hasn't because, you know, an event manager, I mean, God is going to show my age, but event manager is an event manager. The event needs to be managed. Right. And now maybe we play a bit more with terminology now, right? I. When I, when I got to the Olympics in 2008, the nomenclature of the business was that they wanted to banned everyone in such a way and they'd already decided they would be called event manager, senior event manager and, you know, blah, blah. And I said, look, this isn't going to work because this is a massive global showbiz show and we need to speak the language of the industries that we're engaging with. We have to employ producers, right? And actually through everything I've done since I've always used the term producer, associate producer, assistant producer, executive executive producer, because I think it, it describes better what we do right now. I think that's in my bit of the event industry, which is, you know, broadly speaking, the entertainment, films, television part of the live event industry. I think it's, it's different in corporate events or B2B or something like that. So there's a horses for courses approach. So I'd kind of say that I don't think the role of the event manager has changed. I think what we've done is realize that those people do more in different contexts. And when they go into different contexts, you need to speak the language of the context you're in. Right. And as we all know, event manager has a thousand different connotations. Producer has a different connotations. But I feel that we have always attracted the right people for what we're doing by using those terms.
- [15:15]
Karen
It's interesting you say that because a few of the roles I've recently taken have been called producer roles. And I suppose in my background I would never see my role as a producer, but I can see kind of how it's interpreted because you're managing, producing the event. So I can see how kind of like you're saying that depending on who you're working for, whether it's corporate entertainment, whatever it is, they, they're going to call you what they need and then your skills kind of fill the gap that they're creating. So I just. That's interesting to me, kind of your, your thoughts on that. Just because I've had a few of those roles pop up, I think it.
- [15:54]
Martin Green
Helps describe where we fit as well. You know, we do big exciting stuff like TV producers, like film producers. Right. And by the way, everyone has a different definition. My definition is I'm a producer. What I do is I find the excuse to make a piece of work, the resources to make a piece of work, and a world class team to make that piece of work, and I protect and guide them to make the best work of their lives. That's my job. Right. And my definition of that. So I also found that producer just has a bit of a glamour to it that maybe event manager doesn't. Right. And again, it just helped us attract people, it helped us give the job status. It helped particularly make sure that creativity is part of a producer's job in a way that event manager doesn't. But that's necessarily sometimes on certain event manager roles. Right. It's horses for courses again. But I've always required that our producers know how to deal with creatives and have a creative mind of their own.
- [16:58]
Jack
It's funny because one of the, one of the hashtags that we use with the podcast isn't we build events, it's actually we create experiences.
- [17:09]
Martin Green
Right.
- [17:10]
Jack
And I think whatever we do, whatever environment it is within the event sector, it's what experience does that individual, both the one working on it and the one receiving it, take away with them.
- [17:21]
Martin Green
That's right.
- [17:22]
Jack
And you know, you taught that about the, the Commonwealth Games. The Commonwealth Games in Birmingham was bloody hard work. You know, I don't think, I don't think any, any other country. I was working on it and I know you were. And I don't think any other country at that time within the Commonwealth would have been able to deliver the Commonwealth Games, given what we were coming through and on the back of.
- [17:47]
Martin Green
But it's the most extraordinary experience to take that team through Covid and anyone, all of us who were in any way Managing or leading teams knew that you had to maintain your, your passion and commitment and energy levels at the hundred percent you would give everything every day. But then you. It required another hundred percent of you to get yourself through Covid. And of course our timing was such that it wasn't for certain that we were off or on. We just went through two years of are we off or on? And we had all. And we were trying to create a big creative show online, which is hideous, right? And then of course, towards the end of that, you'll suddenly realize, oh my God, we are getting on. And so you go back into that unbelievable energy and, and effort because you're then into basically pre production and production. And I know a lot of us came out of that completely happy with the result, but actually knackered. Now we're not doctors or nurses, but knackered, you know, because that, that was a, that was an experience all of its own, having to take that through Covid and then get it on.
- [19:09]
Jack
And I completely agree with you, but I think what we find with the people that we work with, our peer groups, is that that collaborative way everyone came together, understanding the importance of it for our industry, not just for the games, but for our industry with so many people watching. And then I've used a term when I've been chatting with people before in terms of when I actually was able to, the events were running and I was able to see the families and see the kids coming together probably for the first time in a while. And they were coming together for the first time at the Commonwealth Games. They hadn't even. Some of them, what I was noticing and listening, hadn't even seen each other since COVID and they were coming together in Birmingham and that experience that they got to share together. And I was talking to some of the younger workers that were within our team at the time who had been struggling, some of those nights were late nights to get it over the line. And I said, are you proud of yourself? Because I'm proud of you, but are you proud of yourself? Are you watching this? Are you having a look at what we've created? Do you know how long these memories will last for those people who are experiencing this now? So that's why we do what we do. We don't do it for the money in the bank, you know. Yes, we. Yes, I'm lying. Yes, we do. And do it for the money in the bank as well. We've got bills to pay. But if, if we weren't doing it for another reason as well. We could go and work elsewhere.
- [20:40]
Martin Green
Yeah. I mean, I always say to people, you get. You get to say the three magic words, I was there. And I think that Commonwealth Games experience was heightened by what we come out of. And it was. I mean, there were days where a lot of us who'd been there since the beginning sort of couldn't look each other in the eye when it was all on because it was so moving. We just sort of all burst into tears because I think not only were we realizing that strangers were standing shoulder to shoulder in public space again on a. On a massive scale, but also we'd been through a period, and still are to a certain extent, where we. We had found ourselves pitched against each other and told that we had less in common. And here was a group of people who were all cheering for their team and the other one. And there was a humanity to it that had been absent both in discourse and reality for a number of years. And just the scale of it overwhelmed us because the ticket holders came in and we'd sold more tickets than ever. We sold 1.1 million tickets. But the other unusual thing that happened is that everybody still came into the city anyway, whether they had a ticket or not. And, you know, I guess it all came to a head when we. We took the decision to move the ball from the opening ceremony into the city overnight. Gary B. Stone, God bless him, he's amazing. Because I said, I think you should go into the city. And the team had sort of said, okay, well, look, give us a few days. And I said, no, no, no, no, it has to leave the stadium and go in overnight, and in the next morning and, you know, unbeknownst to the public or above, the few drunks that were out in the middle of the night when they saw a massive ball go past them on the road. But Gary and his team did it unbelievably. And I just used to walk through there every morning, you know, on my way to work. It was. Oh, the humanity of it, you know, it put your faith back in humanity, that event did. I think it really did.
- [23:01]
Karen
And I think being able to see the ball close up was just an incredible experience for anybody that was walking through the city centre like we. We went, and to be able to see it, you know, you know, all its mechanisms and it move in, you know, you think, I've watched that on the TV and now it's here. Like, you know, to actually get up close to something that was so significant to those games was just really special. And now it's you know, still in Birmingham, somewhere different now. And. But, yeah, that was just fab to. Yeah, to feel like you were part of that as well.
- [23:32]
Jack
I want to talk about one more element in terms of this career to date, and that's the element where you got your elbows out. Come on, then, a home Eurovision in terms of. We've all. We've all grown up watching. We've all set our diaries and be scoring ourselves from the sofas, you know, in terms of, you know, tell it. Tell us why first. Why the passion, why the background and. And why you wanted it so much. But then let's put you on the spot and say, what was the most difficult thing about it and what was the most rewarding thing about it?
- [24:08]
Martin Green
Well, look, I have been. I've been asked many times in previous years, what's the one event I'd always wanted to. I would always love to do? And the answer was always the same. I used to say, it's Eurovision, Bill. Never happened. And it's because it really, you know, I'm a very proud gay man and it is very part of my. It is very much part of my culture, this shows for everybody. A lot of families watching everything, but people probably aware that, particularly in the uk, actually less so than Anthrace. It's quite a gay thing. In fact, we call it Gay Christmas, right? And for years, I've got together with my mates around the telly on a Saturday and had a wildo time. And I just love the show. I love how wild it is, I love how bonkers it is, I love how colorful it is, I love how long it is. I love that it's an extremely welcoming place. Everyone can find a place in that show one way or another, and it always has been. So after Ukraine won it and the rumors started going around that, unfortunately, for very sad reasons that we know Ukraine might not be able to host it. And I knew that a conversation had started with the BBC and the government to perhaps bring it here because a. We're a friend and ally of Ukraine, but obviously we came second, so it made sense. And, you know, I will admit I made it known to several people that I would be very, very interested. I happened to be. The timing was right, so the stars aligned. I happened to be coming to the end of my job on Unboxed in the Commonwealth Games, so the timing was right and so it was a girl's own dream. Now you then go to the reality of doing rightly. Took the governments and Ukraine six months to make the very hard decision to take it from Ukraine and bring it to the UK on behalf of UK Ukraine. But that did mean, in production time terms, instead of a year, we had six months. And not only that, because of COVID there was three years of touring going on in a year, there were no people and there was no stuff and we had half the time. Now, the people one was easy because it turns out if you phone anybody and say, do you want to do Eurovision? They go, give me half an hour to dump everything I'm doing. There's going to pay me a lot more money, but I don't care. So we had the wildestly overqualified team on that show and I could be quite persuasive as well. I'm very lucky that there are quite a lot of people who will agree to keep working with me as well, which is lovely. And. But the rest of it. And the production was hard because it was. We were doing in such a short time. And also there's an amazing executive in charge of production called James O'Brien. And I said, look, the problem is, James, really, this was October. By January, we need to be where we would have been if we'd had a year, because otherwise this is going to get scrappy right to the end. And. And I don't. I can't bear scrapping this. You're getting scrappy till the end. Also, you've got so many young performers coming into that show. If they don't walk into a very relaxed atmosphere, they get very tense and then the whole thing gets very tense. Right? And I've seen that on other shows, which essentially meant, I was saying to James, we have to do nine months of production in three months, and God bless him. And the Amazing Team at BBC Studios and the Amazing Team at the BBC and Claire's team in Liverpool, they did it. And by January, we were roughly in the same place as we would have been for a year. So that was the hardest bit. The. The best bit was, was, oh, God. I mean, where'd you start doing it for Ukraine? And feeling, you know, we went. I went to Warsaw when we first started because I said, we're not going to do anything until we talk to the Ukrainians and we could get as close as Warsaw. They took, I don't know, five trains over 12 hours that they didn't know when they were turning up to come and see us. And I said, listen, I feel ridiculous. I've come to talk to you about a singing competition. And they went, no, no, no, no, let's get this out of the way straigh. This is important for us globally. It's important we show that we're resilient and we carry on and let's do this together. And so that permission just then freed us. And obviously working with that team in Ukraine and the other people in Ukraine who we work with right across the board was moving and empowering and humbling. And then of course, the other, you know, the rest of the team that came in from our side, in the end, it was a hoot. Albeit seriously. I've never worked so hard in my life. You run that show 12 times in five days, nine of them with audience, three of them live, 36 live links into each show, a global voting system by the end of the week. The show is so long that the audience going out is meeting the audience coming in. It is really hard work, but, you know, we had the most viewed Eurovision ever and one that I think has gone down as a standard setter. They took our slogan united by music and made it the permit slogan. So there's a lot to be intensely proud of. And then personally, I fulfilled a lifelong dream and I, you know, I'm a happy girl.
- [29:47]
Emma Coldridge
Hi, it's Emma Coldridge here and I'm thrilled to bring you this week's Talent Spotter Shout Out. This week, I'd like to shout about James Heinzman. As a production manager for Linny, James gets involved in all aspects of event production and management, from artwork briefing to design, transport planning to event delivery, warehouse management and anything else the event requires. Working in the world of events really does cover everything. Not one to shout about themselves, we are thrilled to do it for them. Check out their LinkedIn profile and connect with them. Well done, James, and keep up the great work. The Tan Spotter Shout out is sponsored by the Hospitality Partnership. To get in touch with the Hospitality Partnership, please email jan denning on janospitality-partnership.com or visit www.hospitality-partnership.com.
- [30:37]
Karen
So would you say that was your favorite event ever or is there another one lurking that is your favorite event that you've ever worked on or been to?
- [30:47]
Martin Green
This is a picking between your children thing, because I think that it's all about time and place, you know, how can I not say that being able to be part of the staging of the London 2012 opening ceremony is not. Not the favorite thing I've done? How can I say that? You know, Eurovision isn't that, you know, bringing the Tour de France to Yorkshire, you know, working in Japan, you know, if you, if If I'm pushed, I will always say that the thing I am proudest of is Hull City of culture in 2017 because I went in as an outsider to that city and was embraced and supported. We had the most extraordinary team, most of whom were people from Hull. We did, we really did do 365 days of the most extraordinary stuff. From high end art to performance to music to radio ones big weekend to installations to children's festivals, you name it. And you know, that city had been told it was no good for so long, it had almost started to believe it. Not totally because the people of Hull are too resilient for that, but what they certainly had too much of is going to places and saying I'm from Hull. And people either pulling a face or simply saying where and to see that city and the people of that city put their shoulders back and their head up as that year continued and goes, go, yeah, I'm from Hull. And when they did go outside of Hull, people went, oh my God, that's the place where that happened. And they're still, you know, they still have as many issues as every other small and underfunded c. There is something at the core of it now which they will never lose, which they did that. And I'm really, I learned a lot personally. I met a lot of amazing people. I have an indelible link to that city now and I am really, really proud of the work that we did with Hull.
- [32:47]
Jack
There was a lot of investment at the time, rightly so, because it needed it. And a lot of that continues. I mean the marina was transformed. The whole of the marina area.
- [32:57]
Martin Green
Yeah, before us, to be fair, but a lot of stars aligned and I think that's why they went for it. But you know, that whole development down by the marina is fantastic. We obviously with the. With Weichland built the gallery there, which is still there. Yeah. Council did amazing work to refurb the gallery to the other. The Fairings Gallery told the Turner Prize, the Receiving House Theater, which is just amazing. They did all the public realm in a really short period of time. I mean, and again you were talking earlier about people of different disciplines. They just do, you know. I'll tell you a fabulous story about Hull. About a year before there was a team in Hull city council who were responsible for the bridges and the maintenance of the bridges. And every X years they had to paint this particular bridge. And I got this call, he went, we were just talking about the fact we got to paint the bridge next in the office, said you should Call that arty law city of culture and see if we could. Should do something. And I went, okay. And we did a competition and a local artist who wanted to paint it with Venn diagrams because Ven was from Hull, won the competition and the guys who paint the bridges every year figured it all out and did it. And if that is not an example of how a perfect world works, I don't know what is. And it's still there today, though.
- [34:24]
Jack
Yeah, that is. It's amazing where, where just the understanding and that communication around the city where something just inspires and just gets someone to think and, and choose and make that call. You never can.
- [34:40]
Martin Green
The artist, you know, found, you know, obviously Hull's new industry is the green energy industry. And they make, at the Siemens factories, the, the, the, the arms for the turbines, the wind turbines. Now these things are 75 meters long and the largest single object, handmade object in the world. And the artist, Niall Kilkani Killani said, this is, this is an art object and it's been made by the people of the city. So we should put it front and center in the city square. And then he said, and we shouldn't tell anyone and we should do it overnight. This is a running theme in my life. And so we traffic planners, planners, I think the council basically had to break the law because he wanted it to be a surprise. And so we didn't go for planning consent. We took down 17 sets of traffic lights. We moved it overnight on special vehicles. There's still videos up online. It was an extraordinary thing, the way that city came together to do that, because the idea of it, the central idea of it, was so inspiring. Everybody gathered around it, you know, and the year was full of that. It was just full of that. It was, it was extraordinary.
- [35:57]
Jack
I think that's a pretty good answer for you.
- [36:01]
Karen
Yeah, great answer.
- [36:03]
Jack
Let's move on to the next one and the next one. We were talking about before. Yeah, we were talking about before. In terms of. You've talked to quite a few students in the past. You've talked to new people coming into our industry. If you were to think of some nuggets of information that you would share with them or, or what you would advise people at this time, what are those nuggets that you would want to share with people either thinking of coming into the industry or changing jobs in from one sector to come into ours, what should they be thinking about?
- [36:34]
Martin Green
Well, there's practically. There's other stuff that practically I say our industry needs every skill set. So never Think that what you currently do isn't what you could do in this industry, right? Now, with that, you may have to take a slight step back. It might not be straight across, but invariably our industry needs your skill set and you can add to that skill set. So have a look at it. And many times that starts with volunteering, right? And you can volunteers at all different levels, but the demonstration that you are in there somewhere is what starts your journey. The other thing I always say to particularly, oh, now I feel so old, to younger, to the younger folk, is I say, just be good at what you're doing, right? Don't have one eye on the next thing. Don't think about climbing ladders, right? And also don't worry if you are really, really good at the thing you have been asked to do, somebody will notice that and they will ask you to do something different, right? Trust in that. And therefore, in a way you're saying, don't worry about. Get rid of the worry, but 100%, concentrate on whatever it is you've been asked to do and make sure it's better than anyone else would have done it. Right? And I know what I'm like if I see someone like that in my team. You instigate, blimey, they're good. Get them to do something else, something bigger, and before you know it, you're on your journey. Just. Just be good at what you do.
- [38:17]
Jack
Yeah, great example. Because I think quite often some people are so focused and having to be able to do everything, you know, and have an understanding, fair enough, but you don't have to deliver everything. And I think that's a skill in itself, you know, appreciate what other people. People do.
- [38:34]
Martin Green
Be curious, of course, be curious, ask questions, be interested, you know, show. Show the interest. But the main thing is that if someone's asked you to do something and you hand it back or you do it, unbelievably brilliant, they will notice.
- [38:50]
Jack
Perfect. Now, I think. I think that's enough of us asking you questions for a moment. We always allow our guests to ask us one.
- [39:01]
Martin Green
Field. I'm going to be. I'm getting really good at this talk tomorrow in Sheffield. When I say that, you may lose my voice when I'm doing completely through the medium of mime.
- [39:12]
Jack
So, yeah, we always throw this back to our guests and we allow them to offer us this question. You've obviously had chance to see what we were going to ask you from listening to others and Karen sharing it, but we have no clue what you might ask us. So be very Gentle.
- [39:31]
Martin Green
All right. I mean, obviously I'm quite, I'm, you know, I'm reaching on in my career and I've got a lovely big job and my title is Vice President or Madam Vice President, as I prefer it to be. And so what I'd say is what I, I therefore have a certain amount of power and I have a voice. Right. What do you want of me? That I have a voice and some power in this industry. What do you want of me?
- [40:00]
Karen
My gosh, that's a good question.
- [40:02]
Jack
That's an interesting one, isn't it?
- [40:04]
Karen
I bet you Jack answers first.
- [40:06]
Jack
No, I'm thinking, I was gonna let you answer. I've got a couple, then. I've got a couple. And the quick ones. Okay. The first one is I think we consistently need to evaluate how we are educating people that are coming into the industry. And I know we've had a chat about this, but before we started recording and I do think we need to always challenge in terms of how we're educating and bringing people into our sector. Now that's not just challenging the young people, but that's challenging the educators as well. So what are the resources? Are we tapping into different people's learning styles enough? You know, I know from my perspective, I hated being at university and going to the library and reading books of historical information based on the subject that I was doing. I love listening to recordings and to audiobooks and to. And that sort of narrative. I love watching things in terms of, I love being in, in those experiences. So I think if I'm asking you, I would say, and that's not just you, that's everyone is to challenge the way we educate people from a, from a selfish perspective. I love new opportunities. I always love new opportunities. I don't get bored. But I think we should constantly be learning and if we don't, we're going backwards. So I would say from a selfish perspective, you have my number keepers of mine.
- [41:37]
Martin Green
Oh my God.
- [41:43]
Jack
Hey, you just said we don't know. And my perspective, perspective is from what I've seen you do so far and the way you manage people, I would love the opportunity to work closely with you moving forward. So there you go. There's two things.
- [41:56]
Martin Green
Excellent.
- [41:58]
Karen
I do have mine. Mine is, I'm going to try to think how to phrase it because it's kind of a two parter. I freelance so my world is often all about pay. How much to get paid, what you, what you worth. How do you. Is there a flat rate? Should there be a flat rate for People like, you know, if you've got so much experience, should you charge this rate? Should you charge that rate? This is the endless discussion between freelancers, what do you charge? What do you charge? I don't know what, what should you charge? And the other, the. So that's not really, that's not really a question yet. I suppose one thing that, that can get frustrating, that could, that does need a voice is it's the educating of the end client or the agency that actually, what, what rate you're putting out won't attract me. But you want somebody of that, of the skill set that is, you know, you say you've got 15 years experience, you want them to be in this producer role, you want them to be, have done all these jobs, but actually the rate that you're offering, you won't attract that person, you'll attract somebody lesser. Because I had an email this week from an agency saying, are you available? What's your rate going to be? And it's, and it was a really long day, it was like 6am to 1 1am and there was no accommodation included. And I was like, but why would you expect a freelancer to take that job? Like, you know, it's, it's the value thing for me that, that could be really interesting, that job. But actually if you're not going to provide me accommodation, I've then got to pay for that out of my own money, which then brings down my rate as to what I'm, you know, what I'm going to offer you. So I suppose my question is, should we, could we have more of a flat rate system? So could it be, you know, like, if you're that experienced, it's this rate and the education piece. So when you're putting your, when you're asking people to, you know, put their crate in for work, it's realistic.
- [43:57]
Martin Green
I would say that I think our industry is so varied and a million different things every day that I think flat rates are difficult. Also, don't forget flat rates can get a bit sticky. Quite hard to get free of. Right. As well. Right. As inflation goes up and blah, blah. So I think it's more to your second point, which is an educative one is working with clients, looking at ourselves and making sure that we feel we are being decent. And that is always a struggle because the money we are spending isn't ours. Right. But I think it's good to keep it on people's minds. There's another way to phrase this, which was when I was in the earlier Part of my career, someone said to me, and it really stuck with me, know your worth. And within that ability to know your worth is your confidence to say no. Right. And it's tough if you haven't worked for a bit or you're worried about where the next job's coming from, particularly freelancers. But I can attest to the fact that I have tried to follow that and I find it very useful because the act of doing it speaks about much more. It speaks to your confidence, it speaks to your ability to speak to people. It speaks to a lot more. Do you just, you know, it's much more than the act. So I, I would always say to people, be aware of your worth. Within that is really be aware of your worth. And you're not overpricing yourself either, right? But yeah, it is something we need to be permanently mindful of, I think, on, on all, on all levels in, in everything that we do to make sure that we're just not screwing people over. I, I, I, I feel confident within the work we've done where I feel we've always made sure that we pay people right and also treat people right. A happy show has become a really important mantra of mine. Having worked on some really unhappy shows, I sort of put my fist up and went, right, if I'm ever in charge, we will have happy shows. And we put a lot of effort into the culture of how we work and the energy with which we work and the friendliness with which we work. Apart from anything else, I think you get better off people and harder work people and more creativity if you set that atmosphere right. But it's amazing, and we all know it, how many unhappy shows we've worked on.
- [46:38]
Jack
I think you also mentioned before about volunteering as well, Martin, in terms of, you know, when you say, knowing your worth, we, we had a situation a while back where we were looking to recruit some newly qualified, you know, in terms of event management students. And the prices that we were getting from some of them was ridiculous in terms of the daily rate. And I actually turned around to them, I said, look, you're missing an opportunity here. I said, if I was in your shoes at the minute, I would actually put together a quote and say, this is what my normal daily rate is, but I want to work for you, so I'm willing to work for this, do a fantastic job, and I guarantee they'll pay you your rate at the next show and you'll have gained the experience from it. So don't cut yourself off at that early, especially at the early stage of your career of getting that experience, know your value. But as you just said there, don't overprice yourself because you're going to miss out on the connections, the contacts, the future opportunities if you're not gaining that experience at the same time.
- [47:38]
Martin Green
Yes, right. You, you're ultimately, your offer is a mixture of everything, everything depending on when what stage career you're at. No one wants to screw you over, but at the very beginning of your career, you need to balance the money you've got coming in with the experience and the racking up on your cv. You don't need to too long. And people who ask you to do it for too long are wrong because then they're screwing you over. But there is, there is a balance, right? And then you need different things mid career and, you know, I need different things my end of the career. So, yeah, there's always a balance to be held. And of course it's harder now because we've got this cost of living thing, you know, crisis going on. And, you know, I understand getting the level right is, is really hard. So somewhere between a little bit of flexibility on the person you're bringing on and some understanding and flexibility from the person who's doing the hiring, we should be able to get it right.
- [48:39]
Karen
I say this all the time on the podcast, you know, if you've got your tribe of people, if you've got people that you trust in industry, just ask them, is this rate that I'm being offered, is it right? And just get a comparison from somebody. Because I think that's the hard thing, that if you're new, you're not really sure what you should charge and, you know, you should get more experience. You think, do I want to do that job for that? Right? So I use my kind of tribe around me as a benchmark to say, would, would you do this for that?
- [49:10]
Martin Green
And also there's things available that weren't available to me. There were online tribes now and social forums, right. So even if you don't know someone in the industry, there is, you know, a group somewhere who you can ask. And I still do it now. Now if I'm in negotiations on something, I'll turn around to mates and say, what do you think I should be? You know, so it doesn't stop. You're always making sure you're benchmarking and stuff like that. So it's a constant process.
- [49:38]
Jack
Who'd have thought we came to ask. He asks us a question and we get more golden nuggets. From him.
- [49:46]
Karen
He's a fountain of knowledge.
- [49:50]
Jack
Yeah. Perfect time then to take, take a couple of minutes break and then we'll come straight back into our Quick Fire round.
- [49:58]
Karen
Fuchsia specializes in stand design, event operations, conferences, corporate events and flagpole rental. For the last 45 years, Fuchsia have.
- [50:06]
Martin Green
Partnered with some of the largest events across the UK to deliver flawless results.
- [50:11]
Karen
If you are looking for an event partner with experience, honesty and attention to.
- [50:15]
Martin Green
Detail, get in touch today at WWE.
- [50:18]
Karen
Www.fuchsia-exhibition-services.com. fuchsia are proud sponsors of the Quick Fire Round. So this now, Martin, is the really tough question. Really? You've sailed through the first part of the podcast. This is where the tough bit starts. Are you ready?
- [50:39]
Martin Green
I'm ready.
- [50:41]
Karen
What is your go to karaoke song?
- [50:45]
Martin Green
The Winner Takes it all by Abba. The best pop song ever written.
- [50:49]
Karen
If you had to eat one thing for every meal going forward, what would you eat?
- [50:55]
Martin Green
Hot buttered toast.
- [50:59]
Karen
Do you prefer a film or a book?
- [51:01]
Martin Green
A film. I'm a terrible reader.
- [51:03]
Karen
Are you an early bird, a night owl, or just generally awake all the time?
- [51:09]
Martin Green
Famously, to the annoyance of everybody I've ever worked with, I'm a very early bird. I get very grumpy if I'm on the office very late. If you ask anyone who's worked with me, they will say that I am an awfully early bird.
- [51:26]
Karen
Early bird. Do you prefer to fly or drive?
- [51:31]
Martin Green
Oh, now that's a hard one because that's the environmental thing. I really like planes because they're quiet and I can watch films and no one can call me. But I like driving, so I'm gonna go half and half. I really should say I prefer to take public transport.
- [51:49]
Karen
We'll have to add that in.
- [51:51]
Martin Green
Oh, I tell you what I've got into. I'm really into line bikes. I love them.
- [51:56]
Karen
If you could instantly become an expert in anything, anything, what would it be?
- [52:01]
Martin Green
Architecture.
- [52:07]
Karen
Would you skydive or bungee jump?
- [52:10]
Martin Green
Skydive. I honestly think there is less chance of dying than if you're attached to a piece of string.
- [52:18]
Karen
Why would you do that? Now, this is. We have to ask everybody this question. Do you have pineapple on your pizza? Yes or no?
- [52:26]
Martin Green
Know it's abomination and absolutely wrong on every level should be allowed and should.
- [52:32]
Karen
Be, that is by law. I mean, it's the only answer, isn't it, to have. Now, on an event, what is the one thing you can't be without but not your phone. Something other than your phone.
- [52:44]
Martin Green
Do you want the real answer?
- [52:47]
Karen
Yeah.
- [52:55]
Martin Green
Do you want Another answer?
- [52:58]
Jack
Another 20?
- [53:04]
Martin Green
A good team.
- [53:07]
Jack
A good team. Worth a spare packet of 20 when you run out.
- [53:17]
Karen
Now, you might know this already. What would your walk on music be when you're walking on that stage? What is your walk on music?
- [53:25]
Martin Green
The theme from Dynasty. You're too young to know the art. You're too young to know that.
- [53:33]
Jack
No, I remember. I remember the Dynasty music. Yeah.
- [53:39]
Karen
And last one. A bit random. Are you binging on any TV show shows at the moment? If yes, what are they?
- [53:48]
Martin Green
I just finished Life and Beth, which I loved a lot. And I just watched I Am Celine Dion, which is one of the best things I've ever seen. It's profoundly moving and hilarious at the same time. And I would thoroughly recommend. Recommend if anyone's got a couple of hours to watch. But yeah, life and Beth is my big tip. It's. It's Amy Schultz. What's her name? Anyway, it's on Disney. I think it's great. It's really great.
- [54:24]
Karen
Well, thank you for those. You've survived your quick fire round, so not too bad. So thank you for a little bit more insight into you and your world.
- [54:33]
Jack
You're more than welcome by a nudge. Do appreciate it. I know we joked at the beginning in terms of trying to get this in the diary, but that is because you're such a busy fella. So I really do appreciate you taking the time. I know our listeners will really enjoy listening to this and taking some of those golden nuggets away with them.
- [54:50]
Martin Green
Great. Well, I really appreciate the opportunity. Thanks for having me. I think what you're doing is great, so I hope our paths cross again. This podcast was brought to you in partnership with Standout Magazine, the industry's go to publication for event professionals. If you like what you hear, please subscribe, write a review and spread the word.