Mindset Matters - Episode #172 - Pleasure vs. Happiness: Why You Might Be Chasing the Wrong One

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Everyday Millionaire – Episode #172: "Mindset Matters - Pleasure vs. Happiness: Why You Might Be Chasing the Wrong One"

Release Date: February 13, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode #172 of The Everyday Millionaire podcast, host Patrick Francey delves deep into the nuanced distinction between pleasure and happiness. Joined by his wife, Stephanie Hanlon Francie, an Olympic mental performance coach, the duo explores how modern society often conflates these two states, leading many to chase fleeting pleasures at the expense of lasting happiness.

---

Defining Pleasure vs. Happiness

Pleasure and happiness are frequently mistaken for one another, yet they represent fundamentally different experiences.

• Happiness is described as a long-term, internal state. As Francie reflects, "happiness is an inside job" (01:27).

• Pleasure, on the other hand, is short-lived and external, such as the transient joy from attending a concert or indulging in a favorite food. Francie shares her personal insight: "I really learned at a young age that there is a difference between happiness and pleasure" (02:18).

Stephanie expands on this by highlighting that happiness is enduring and ethereal, while pleasure is visceral and momentary. This foundational understanding sets the stage for dissecting how modern habits influence our pursuit of these states.

---

The Neuroscience: Dopamine vs. Serotonin

Central to the discussion is the role of dopamine and serotonin—two critical neurotransmitters.

• Dopamine is associated with pleasure. It drives instant gratification behaviors, such as social media scrolling, shopping sprees, and other addictive activities. Stephanie succinctly states, "Pleasure is dopamine and happiness is serotonin" (07:19).

• Serotonin underpins happiness, fostering a sense of well-being and contentment that isn't reliant on external stimuli.

A key takeaway from Stephanie: "The more pleasure you seek, the more unhappy you become" (07:52). This is because dopamine not only provides immediate pleasure but also downregulates serotonin, thereby diminishing long-term happiness.

---

Impact of Social Media and Instant Gratification

The podcast addresses the pervasive influence of social media and the culture of instant gratification:

• Addiction to Dopamine Hits: Stephanie notes, "There's a huge dopamine addiction... especially with social media platforms" (04:04). Constant scrolling and seeking likes create a cycle of temporary pleasure without lasting satisfaction.

• Consequences: Francie observes, "There are times where I feel a little bit even more down... there's a real down after that" (04:20). The immediate pleasure from activities like "doom scrolling" often leads to subsequent feelings of emptiness or depression.

The duo highlights how environments like Las Vegas or expansive shopping malls are engineered to flood individuals with dopamine, creating the illusion of happiness while masking its absence.

---

Societal Examples and Personal Stories

To illustrate the concepts, Patrick and Francie share relatable examples:

• Consumerism: Stephanie discusses the allure of purchasing new items: "It's so awesome to have a new car... and then six months later... it's just another car" (12:54).

• Influencer Culture: Patrick references George Gammon's observation about young people prioritizing becoming influencers over developing trade skills, emphasizing the preference for short-term pleasure over long-term fulfillment (22:38).

• Personal Impact: Francie recounts witnessing a friend's compulsive shopping habits, leading to accumulated possessions she didn't need: "She would shop almost every night... send back a half to three quarters of that stuff" (15:25).

These stories underscore the pervasive nature of pleasure-seeking behaviors and their detrimental effects on genuine happiness.

---

Strategies for Cultivating Happiness Over Pleasure

The conversation shifts to actionable strategies for fostering true happiness:

1. Awareness:

   • Recognizing the difference between seeking pleasure and pursuing happiness is the first step. Stephanie emphasizes, "First is always awareness" (30:02).

2. Gratitude:

   • Practicing gratitude can shift focus from external pleasures to internal satisfaction. Francie shares a client's nighttime ritual of expressing gratitude as a means to end the day on a positive note (33:30).

3. Investing in Relationships:

   • Building and nurturing meaningful relationships contribute to lasting happiness. Francie illustrates this through a heartfelt interaction with a client: "Talking to you makes me happy" (34:39).

4. Purpose-Driven Living:

   • Aligning actions with personal values and purpose ensures that happiness stems from fulfilling endeavors rather than transient pleasures. Stephanie discusses how purpose-driven work and contributions to others lead to genuine contentment (19:25).

5. Discipline and Self-Control:

   • Overcoming the allure of instant gratification requires discipline. Patrick points out the necessity of resisting short-term pleasures to achieve long-term happiness: "Pleasure is easy, but happiness is earned" (34:39).

---

Conclusion: The Pursuit of Happiness

Patrick and Francie conclude by reiterating the central theme: the pursuit of happiness requires a shift from seeking external pleasures to cultivating internal fulfillment. Stephanie encapsulates this sentiment: "The more you chase pleasure, the more elusive happiness becomes" (35:03).

The episode serves as a compelling reminder that while pleasures add enjoyment to life, true happiness lies in meaningful relationships, purposeful actions, and internal contentment. By understanding and implementing these distinctions, listeners are empowered to prioritize lasting happiness over fleeting pleasures.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Patrick [00:00]: "Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it."

• Francie [01:27]: "I think happiness is sort of a long-term play... happiness is an inside job."

• Stephanie [07:19]: "Pleasure is dopamine and happiness is serotonin."

• Francie [07:52]: "The more pleasure you seek, the more unhappy you become."

• Patrick [22:38]: "None. Zero friends are looking to gain a skill in terms of a trade... all of them wish that they could be an Instagram star."

• Stephanie [35:03]: "The more you chase pleasure, the more elusive happiness becomes."

---

Final Thoughts

Episode #172 of The Everyday Millionaire offers profound insights into the delicate balance between pleasure and happiness. By dissecting the biological underpinnings and societal influences that drive pleasure-seeking behaviors, Patrick and Francie provide listeners with valuable tools to prioritize lasting happiness. Emphasizing gratitude, meaningful relationships, and purpose-driven actions, the episode empowers individuals to navigate the complexities of modern life with clarity and intentionality.

---

Listen to the full episode here.

Transcript

[Patrick]

Foreign. Welcome to this episode of the Everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Francie. In these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as Mindset Matters because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in. Enjoy.

[Stephanie]

Stephanie. Here we are, episode number 172.

[Francie]

Amazing.

[Stephanie]

Here we are. Okay, so does episode 172 make you happy?

[Francie]

Yeah, well, actually, all of these episodes make me happy.

[Stephanie]

Okay. Topic of the day. Wanted to broach the conversation of pleasure versus happiness. They are different, yet a lot of people equate the two. So that's what I want to unpack today, happiness and pleasure. Do you want me to give you my research and notes or do you want to take it?

[Francie]

No, I don't. I don't want to give research and notes right now. I just want to bring up the fact that you make a really good point is that I think over the years I've been in relationship or business partnerships with people who've had a very confusing interchange between the two words happiness and pleasure. And I've always seen happiness as sort of a. A long term play, right? Happiness. I remember my mom saying, always, happiness is an inside job. Right? And then pleasure was more intermittent. It was more like going to a concert and then, you know, going home. And after a high, there's kind of a low. And so I really learned at a young age that there is a difference between happiness and pleasure. And I was always sort of in search of what would make me happy long term and never really got addicted to this, to the roller coaster of seeking pleasure. So I think that's an interesting distinction and I think I'm excited to pack, to unpack it.

[Stephanie]

The conversation of pleasure versus happiness probably more, I think, out there today than it's ever been because, you know, we're becoming far more familiar with what dopamine is all about. Dopamine was really, you know, came to the forefront in conversations, you know, as social media, as TikTok, Instagram scrolling, and people not understanding what was going on in their body. And then certainly lots of research brought up the conversation of what dopamine is and this became also another part of the conversation, as you've seen. I've seen, you know, as we've gone through the past five years of kind of craziness since the big lockdowns. Ultimately we see people that are searching for happiness, don't feel happy, pleasure, happiness. And then they confuse the two. They think they're happy because they're busy scrolling, getting hits of dopamine. And then they run out of that. So it's like, okay, how do we break this down? So that's what really brought my attention to it was the fact that there is a huge dopamine. We'll call it an addiction. We see it in what's happening again on our social media platforms. A lot of them, the scrolling. I've been caught in it. You've been caught in it. And as I've kind of even, I guess investigated my own addiction, if you will, the understanding of it and then actually having to, I guess what would be the word, take a break and then go through withdrawals. It's a weird kind of thing that's unfolding and it's become becoming more and more in the forefront. So as I started to break it down, that's what I wanted to kind of hit on today.

[Francie]

Well, the external reaction that we have when our dopamine centers are triggered is that we also. It's a false sense of pleasure, it's a false sense of comfort. And what I've discovered over time is that there's an actual downside to it where if I have been doom scrolling or I've been on the road and I've just been, you know, instead of just reading my book, I just am scrolling or scrolling or scrolling. Then I stop. I also. There's times where I feel a little bit even more down. So I'm wondering if there's a connection between that dopamine hit that you get that kind of, that even thing. And then when you stop, there's a. There's a real down after that. So there's a chemical reaction in our bodies. I don't know enough of the science, so I don't want to sound like a fool, but I do know that I have to be aware of it. And even with the skaters that I work with and the athletes, when we're on the road or at competitions, we actually have to put them on a social media fast, I call it, because it does feel like you're fasting it. Sometimes there's a bit craving and sometimes they just want to see the likes. They want to see the, how many people, you know, are making comments on the post that they just did. And it becomes this drive which can pull them out of the moment, pull them out of the competition, pull them out of what it is that they're doing. So I've been really hyper aware of it for the last five or six years, for sure.

[Stephanie]

Well, you know, I'm going to get into some of the research that I came across. But when we consider that there is a, you know, you've all heard that, we've all heard the story, I think of, you know, people who've gone to third world countries, for example, and they're into the, you know, poorest neighborhoods, if you will, they're into the poorest of individuals, people. And they're all very happy. You know, they're, they're, they don't have all the bells and whistles. They, you know, don't have social media, they don't have all of those external things yet they're all pretty happy in spite of the fact that they don't have a lot of stuff. They don't have a lot of things. Their quality of life isn't all that great compared to our first world problems. Right. And so you start to wonder, well, if we know that to be true, and we do, then why is that? And so then you start to understand that we get these external hits and as they've discovered through the research and through the science, we get these hits of dopamine that we're not even aware of, by the way. That just becomes what our brain, our body fires on. It's like many people don't understand that food is a drug yet it is. So let's not go down that path, but let's just break down some of the research. So we know that a lot of people equate and they confuse pleasure and happiness. So let's break it down a little bit. So pleasure, it's short lived, whereas happiness is long lived. Pleasure is visceral, happiness is ethereal. Pleasure is taking. Happiness is giving. Pleasure can be achieved with substances. Happiness cannot be achieved with substances. Pleasure is experienced alone. Happiness is experienced in social groups. The extremes of pleasure all lead to addiction, whether they be substances or behaviors. Yet there's no such thing as being addicted to too much happiness. And finally, and probably the most important point is that pleasure is dopamine and happiness is serotonin.

[Francie]

There's the distinction.

[Stephanie]

There's a distinction. And guess what? Down regulates serotonin. Let's call that, if we call that dopamine the pleasure drug. And we call serotonin the happiness drug.

[Francie]

Right.

[Stephanie]

Guess what? The one thing that down regulates serotonin or our happiness drug, guess what it is. Dopamine. So, yes. So the more pleasure you seek, the more unhappy you.

[Francie]

Doesn't that make a ton of sense? How many times have I heard people say, I'll be happy when. I'll be happy when I get this project finished. I'll be happy when I win a gold medal. I'll be happy when I get through this. I'll be happy when. And to me, that is a trigger that they are seeking pleasure, short term pleasure, then they're going to be happy. And it's how happy like something outside of them. And that really makes a lot of sense.

[Stephanie]

It does. So what's really interesting about this is that some of these, you know, we'll call the big corporations. So you go to Las Vegas, you walk down into big shopping malls. Even our government, by the way, it's all part of it. And they, some would argue indefinitely in Vegas and shopping malls. I totally get it. There's specifically, there are coordinated efforts to actually infuse dopamine, those pleasure drugs to keep people going. And then what happens is that it gets convoluted because you're being convinced that you're happy when you're, I don't know, we'll use Vegas as one of those go to. You're being happy in Vegas when actually your senses are on overdrive and dopamine is just going through your body at all times because it is that pleasure. It is pleasure, not happiness. But yet they convince us that pleasure and happiness are exactly the same thing and they're not. So this is really the conversation that I want to get into a little bit more and understanding maybe some science behind it to the degree that we understand the science, we're not experts on it, but this is what's showing up. As I did the research about, you know, really the neurochemicals between the differences between dopamine, which is pleasure, serotonin, which is happiness, dopamine, which kills serotonin. So we think we're being happy in the moment, but we're actually having pleasure difference than happiness. So it's kind of, I can see where the confusion gets in. But as I've done the research and as I even reflect on myself, as I reflect on people that we know or even clients that we've talked to, we really start to see that the pursuit of happiness, you know, the movie the Pursuit of Happiness, that was not related to this, but often we're all pursuing happiness, but we get caught in pleasure. That's. I'll pass it over to you. What's your thoughts?

[Francie]

Well, I think, yeah, to your point, that's a lot of words, but I think as I follow along, hear what you're saying, that the chemical reaction of. In our bodies that until we're aware of it, I think can lead to. For me, it scares me because that's where depression can. Can kick in. We're seeking happiness, seeking pleasure, seeking, seeking, seeking. It's outside of us. And then it happens and then it ends. And then there's a low, there's a. There's a downgrade or a depression or a depressed kind of a thing that happens in our bodies where we go, well, I gotta go seek some more pleasure or more happiness. And how many times have you said to a client or whatever, let's. Let's work on your values. Let's do the values matrix. And how many times I've seen happy show on people's values. And I went, you know, it really got me thinking, especially after our last master class, is that when people are seeking happiness and they're using happy as a value or they want their kids, you know, we just want our kids to be happy. We want our kids to be happy and healthy, and that's such an important value. But at the same time, if you're continually putting pleasure or pleasure seeking in front of yourself or in front of your kids, or, you know, making sure that this high and low and this dopamine in this hit, that we can't even out into some sort of. I don't know, maybe it's a. The vibration of joy. For example, like when I think about my intention of my goal. If I put happiness as a goal or as a value, there's still a thing where I'm judging it. Will this make me happy? Will this make you happy? Will I make Patrick happy if I do this? But what I've learned over the course of the time, and especially doing the work on the energy chart with Dr. David R. Hawkins, what I found over time is that it's. Happiness is a commitment. And like my mom said, again, it's an inside job, whereas pleasure is an outside job. Pleasure is something that you're seeking or something. And I don't make it wrong. I mean, I love skiing, and I used to love going to concerts until I started getting really overwhelmed by the crowds and stuff because I couldn't handle other people's need to be Seeking pleasure. I felt like it was an external hit on my own happiness. So I stopped going, I stopped enjoying concerts, I stopped enjoying hockey games and things where there was a lot of people that I couldn't actually fully be myself. I couldn't feel my own feelings because there were so many things going on. But I think, oh, to your point about Vegas or shopping malls is. I think that's what it's designed to do. Have you ever noticed in a restaurant or a bar they start to turn the music up? Have you ever noticed that? Yeah, yeah, that's to make you drink more.

[Stephanie]

Totally. It brings the energy up.

[Francie]

But yeah, that still external.

[Stephanie]

But we live in a world of short term gratification, right? It's designed and our lives have become for instant gratification in many things that we do. But here's a classic example of how external. You hear of people with shopping addictions, for example, so they're constantly buying stuff. Well, really it's that pleasure center, that dopamine center that gets hit when you buy something for anybody. And I'm sure most would relate to this that have ever bought a new car. It's so awesome to have a new car and it's great. And then six months later, you know something, now everybody knows you own that nice car and it's new and the new smell starts to wear off and all of a sudden it's just another car. There's no big deal about it. And I've had that experience even, you know, with when I had my Porsche, right? It was like, that's cool, it's awesome. And then that kind of wore off to the point where I finally got rid of it. Like, you start to realize that the car, the new stuff, the instant gratification is all part of it. It's pleasure and it's outside of us. And when we break down the research, the reality of it is that the difference between happiness and pleasure is what they're calling the delayed gratification paradox. So things that take effort, for example, exercise and relationship, deep relationship, purpose driven work, that's what leads to true happiness. But we avoid them because it's easier to be distracted by those dopamine hits. To the point that we go for the dopamine hit rather than go for the serotonin driven fulfillment side of things. And then we start to see addiction to the pleasure centers to that dopamine versus we don't get addiction to happiness, which takes effort. It takes. That's really part of what the happiness is, is that it takes effort you have to work at it. And it is an internal job as opposed to an external job. And I just found it also fascinating. And I know that, you know, I. What started part of all of this, what started it for me was my own observation of my habits and how I was going down the rabbit hole of, you know, those instant gratification hits, whether it be through social media, whatever that might be, Twitter or, you know, Instagram, Facebook, you know, those kinds of things.

[Francie]

Yeah, I don't have that same awareness. Maybe I'll pay attention more. You know, me, I put my phone down and I can't find it for hours. So I don't really have that same attachment. And I don't know why, but when I do get on to something that really sort of, I can feel a shift in my body. There was a time where I was hanging out with a friend and she lived in California. And every time I would go to her place or drive by, there'd be boxes and boxes of Amazon outside her gate. And I didn't make. I didn't put it together, but she would shop at night with a glass of wine and shop almost every night on Amazon or on different sites and then go the next morning and see all the boxes outside the gate and go and open things. And she would actually send back a half to three quarters of that stuff because it wasn't about the stuff, it was about the fact what she was experiencing when she was purchasing it. So I'm wondering if there's. When you talk about the shopping addiction or you're talking about the awareness that we have and what it is, what maybe what gap we're feeling in our. In our spirit or in our bodies or in our physiology that's missing. And. And how is it that it's being trained into us right now? And I'm. Makes me a little bit worried when I look about, you know, look around and see what's happening in the. In the virtual reality world and the AI world, for example, there's even a higher level of dopamine. Hit the. The instant gratification is coming faster and faster and faster and faster. As to. As human beings, I don't know if we're designed to be able to react to those things as fast as we are. And you know, I always say, like, I like to do the opposite, not the obvious. And when people are going really, really fast, I walk really, really slow. So I'm wondering if maybe there's something to that as well. When it comes to the speed of all the things that are happening, that are maybe making us not aware of the decisions that we're making and, and the, and the rabbit holes that we're taking ourselves down.

[Stephanie]

Well, it's easy too, right? It's convenient. That's the other side of it. So we have to consider that, you know, recently. So we did the incubator. Incubator, which is a coaching program that we did. Gosh, I think it was at least a couple of years ago now. But we haven't lost contact with the, you know, people that participated in that particular program. And then recently we all got together and just met virtually because they were kind of across the country. And we all got together for an hour, a little bit, an hour and a half and just reconnected, shared stories, where are we at, what do you got going on? Those kinds of things. But it really was nice to get together. That kind of stuff. Makes me happy. Makes you happy. I know. Even with my shift men's group when we ended the program. But, you know, we got together, you know, months later and kind of touched base and had a conversation and just reconnected. But the reason I share that is because we're generally pretty happy. I mean, we have all the challenges that we face like anybody else does, but we're kind of blessed to know what our purpose is, what our mission is. And for us, when we can be a contribution to others, that really is our. We'll call it purpose driven work. And that's built on the relationships that we're creating and building and you know, the discipline it takes to even deliver on that and to stick with it because that's not necessarily easy either. But it really is what drives us and what lights us up. So I think that's a. I want to make a note of that because, you know, in my mind I again, it is really about living that purpose driven life, understanding what your purpose is, staying true to it, being aware. And it is often, listen, it's just so much about being self aware and then having the discipline to, you know, put your phone down, you know, if that's the case, or quit shopping or be aware of are you seeking pleasure or because you don't or aren't happy? You know, what is it for you? And then questioning yourself.

[Francie]

Yeah. And going a little bit deeper in that, in the questioning is, you know, what is it that may be missing in my life or in your life that is forcing or drawing you into those dopamine hits and drawing you into the seeking of pleasure? You know, I really kind of a Little bit whimsy. I'm feeling some whimsy right now about people in my past that I know that we're always seeking those moments of pleasure and pleasure and pleasure and pleasure. And I remember saying, you know, if we figure out what your purpose is, what do you think? If maybe, yes, you'll be happy and maybe it's more long term, but we can. Let's link it to something that's bigger than you, something that's outside of you, higher purpose, something that will light you up when you make a difference and you see the difference in someone when they look at you or. I got this amazing. We got this amazing thank you from a lady, from a young player that skated with us at the Holly Bend Country Club a couple of years ago, and she's still so happy with the service and how we treated her son. And see those types of things. And they don't maybe happen immediately, that feedback. But when that does show up, there is something that really feels a lot more grounded and a lot more centered than trying to seek it in the moment and trying to please people in the moment, you know, and do the Instagram reels or doing a TikTok and then seeing all the hits and the likes and who's, you know, in the commenting. And, you know, right now there's so many, you know, people and influencers are saying that, you know, you got to engage and you got to put yourself out there and you got to count the likes and you got to make sure you interact with all the people. Really, none of that's real. It's not real. And I think we're creating a Persona or I think it could be a dangerous slippery slope if we're not careful.

[Stephanie]

Well, you know, something to that. Okay, so first off, let's consider a couple of examples. We've all been through this or most have been through this, right? So you're binge watching television, you're eating junk food, you promise yourself you're going to go on a diet and you don't. You eat the junk food anyways. You continue binge watching, you go shopping even though you know that you shouldn't go shopping in the moment. It's all good. Like, you have that junk food, you have that binge watch, you go shopping, and then you feel guilty. That should be the first, you know, really flag that. Oh, that was. I'm living into. And I need to wean myself off these dopamine hits. But I want to expand on this. So this. I don't know who did the. Gosh, where did I see the research? Anyways, here's the example. Oh, George Gammon was sharing that. He's so. George Gammon. I'm a fan of George. I like listening to his stuff because he's really into the economics and stuff. Totally digress. Anyways, he's got a young guy that works for him, 22 years old, that is really smart, but taps into that age group. So he asks his guy, Josh, I think is his name. He says, so, Josh, he goes, tell me of all your friends. And you have a lot of people that, you know, how many of them are looking to gain a skill in terms of a trade, for example, and want to go through and learn how to be a welder or pipe fitter or something along that lines? He goes, my friends, none. Zero.

[Francie]

Wow.

[Stephanie]

Okay. Then he says, okay, well, how many of those same individuals wish that they could be an Instagram star making money on Instagram as an influencer, on YouTube, as an influencer. Like, that's the question, right? He goes, all of them. So think about that. To get a trade takes years, you know, let's say four years to be a journeyman, plus all the work that goes into it. Whereas a influencer, if you hit it, you hit that one, you get that one big hit, or you figure something out, next thing you know. But that's all into the world of pleasure. Those constant dopamine hits, that would be my part of what I and seeing unfold and part of the challenges that we face even as a society as this continues to happen. So in this conversation and for this particular podcast, it really is about, are you happy or are you hooked on pleasure? Are you sincerely into relationships, living on purpose? And by the way, we talk about values conversation all of the time. If you're living true to your values and you can stand in those values, you're far happier than when you're constantly compromising those values. Because that is hitting the pleasure center. Because in the moment, you compromise. This is a great idea. Boom, you get the pleasure. Then you walk away being angry or feeling, you know, guilty about what you went through. Follow.

[Francie]

Yeah.

[Stephanie]

Or.

[Francie]

Or depressed or down or. Or like you say angry, and then all of a sudden you're looking and being a victim to something when really all you were doing was seeking happiness and not realizing that happiness and pleasure are two different things. But if we can put pleasure in the right category and understand that there's a purpose for it, you know, there's a purpose for pleasure. I mean, you think of the different types of pleasure. I have so much pleasure walking the dogs. There's sexual pleasure, there's, there's a culinary pleasure, there's pleasure, you know, when, in those moments. But then there's also a time as, as grownups. And to your point about the 22 year old Josh, George Gammon's guy, is that there is a place when you're young to go through these kinds of things, but in parallel to also understanding or understanding that we still have to be. We're human beings and we are at the effect of eventually maybe wanting to buy a house or wanting to have some sort of career or am I so old fashioned that that's all going to be gone in the next little while? And while we live in the VR and virtual, you know, the AI world. So I don't know, like, I don't want to make it wrong. I also don't want to step over the fact that as human beings life is short and we have moments. I would rather have moments of pleasure but a lifetime of happiness, you know, and really growing into that and what that means for me. But I'm also not 20 years old. I mean, I remember seeking the pleasure, going to the concerts, you know, wanting to look nice and drive the cool car and have a awesome job and all that, but it was always external and I would bump into it and you know, you always say that, you know, the universe has a message for you. If you don't listen, it knocks a little bit louder and I'm wondering how loud the universe is going to have to knock in a lot of different ways if as human beings we don't maybe dial down the pleasure seeking and, and, and the, the damage that that can, that that can have, I think on our humanity or on our souls and maybe help people reframe pleasure and happiness and maybe.

[Stephanie]

Okay, but let's unpack this a little bit. Let's unpack this a little bit. So first and foremost, you know, we're mere mortals. I mean, we're learning and growing and figuring this shit out as we go along. But I want to just point something out. So it's not about making anything wrong, but let's face some of the realities that since technology and we're old enough to watch it evolve and all the things that are going on in the world, but as much as we say, well, we are 20 years old and you know, yes, we were seeking pleasure and all the rest of that, we're also creating relationships and doing things without the distractions, without the dopamine Hits that are available today, the constant instant gratification that this world lives in right now. Now again, we don't have to make it wrong. All we have to do is look at the results. So I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but we know this. Young people are more medicated today than ever any time in history. Suicides are higher than they've ever been before. Young people, and I'm not going to get into age categories but you know, young people, we brought it up, are struggling to find happiness because they're in constant comparison to what they're not. How can you ever feel enough when all you're watching is the influencers who are driving around in their lamb Lambos and their Ferraris or getting you know, a million views or making a million dollars a month on, on YouTube. If you're constantly comparing yourself to that. All I'm saying is it's not easy. I think it's more difficult for young people today than it's ever been to actually genuinely feel happy because they're constantly in the world of pleasure and the dopamine that comes with it. There's a fundamental that one of the things that if we give it a container, a box is that pleasure is about getting happiness is about giving. And when we consider that we're living into our purpose and all human beings purpose at some level is to be a contribution to humanity. And if we can't be that contribution, we're going to seek and be drawn easily down the rabbit hole called pleasure and dopamine, short term hits, but like a drug like heroin, heroin addicts, you know, they start, they get addicted and then soon they need more. They need more, they need more to get the same high as they had before. They normalize it, our body normalizes it. When you look at the will use pornography as an example, a multi billion dollar industry, hard to believe, but that is definitely a pleasure center in terms of dopamine hits and as an addiction it just grows and grows and grows. And I recently lost and she's a comedian, you would probably remember her name but she's very, you know, she leads with her sexuality and she talks a lot about her own sexual things. And she was talking, I watched her interviewed on Joe Rogan was very fascinating. She's talking about her addiction to pornography. She talks about it, she laughs about it, but she goes, you know, it's no more, you know, just a couple having sex. It gets, she's into these bizarre porn sites and she's watching this and she Knows it's a problem. And she. And she jokes about it. She's a comedian. But you realize that, you know, do you see what's happening? And so whether it's pornography or I don't care what it is, you start going down these, and then you need more to get the same sense of pleasure. So that then leads to killing happiness. You can't find happiness when you're constantly living and seeking pleasure. And that's all based on research, by the way.

[Francie]

I think also when I'm listening to that, that makes me really sad because it's true. You know, I think I worked with some young men that, you know, had started watching porn quite early, and then they couldn't really actually find a girlfriend or couldn't find somebody that they could actually connect with because it was never the same as what they had seen on the screen or on. On camera. And I think, to me, that is really sad. And. But at the same time, as you grow into that and you start justifying the decisions, like I. I think about, you know, justifying shopping or justify. Don't feel bad, or you piss me off, so I need to go shopping. You know, what is it that you've linked it to? Or where's the pain point? I wonder if it's the same with that level of addiction, because something has to happen in our physiology or in our brain to need more. Constantly, constantly, constantly. You know, like. Like you talked about heroin or drugs, hard drugs, soft drugs, alcohol, porn. Like, what is it about that? Is it like. For me, I think I never got into drugs, and I certainly don't even think I've ever seen porn. But one of the things is, how much do you have to not love yourself to. To let that happen? Or are we really heading down a path where this gets normalized? And this is kind of the. Kind of like the Mad Max beginning of the Mad Max era or something, because it really, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, this podcast makes me really sad.

[Stephanie]

This podcast makes you sad? Oh, you mean this episode makes you sad. Oh, good. This podcast makes me happy. So. So the, you know, when we start to look at it to say, okay, well, how do we even break this particular happiness pleasure thing? You know, first is always awareness. I think a lot of people are not even aware that there's an option they're seeking. They're bummed out, they're depressed, they never are feeling really happy, but they're always seeking pleasure, not realizing that it's in those moments of dopamine. That kills the serotonin. That was a big one for me, realizing that your happiness can be totally hidden behind the constant seeking of pleasure. So, you know, first is awareness. You know, certainly having gratitude. We hear that all of the time. Stop for a moment, have gratitude. You know, we had a friend over just recently who talked about, you know, the first one, I think one of her nighttime rituals or one of her nighttime habits is that she lays in bed and she prays and she is sharing gratitude. You know, she looks at her life and is very gracious and has a lot of gratitude for her life. That's how she ends her day. And then the other side of it is. And this is something else that we talked about is, are you investing in relationships so that you have interaction with other people that align, that you can have conversations and have some fun with? And the only thing that I would go back to something you said about our dogs is that that isn't pleasure. This is about you giving. Because you have to look after those dogs. You have to. We have to take them for a walk or we have to feed them. We're responsible for them. It's, you know, it's. It's us giving, not taking yet. We get a lot of pleasure from our dogs, but it also makes us very happy because we get to look after our pets. And I think that's pretty clear with anybody, is that pets do make people.

[Francie]

Happy, and they force you to do that because you have to be in the moment. There's no way, even if I'm on my phone down in the back 40 with them, they don't allow. They won't let me do that unless I'm taking pictures of them. I can't do social media with them. I can't do anything. And they're not even on a leash. They just demand that. And then I get so caught up and how much joy they're. How much fun they're having in the moment that I have happy. You know, I'm feeling happy in the moment. So that is a really good point. And I think as long as, you know, I was talking to a client today. She. She called me and said, yeah, I just want to have some girl climb. Just want to connect. And, you know, it. You know, it was her. Just her and I. Her partner was playing music in the other room, and we just connected. And, you know, it was just. Both of us. Made us both happy to just make a difference in the. And have a. Have some laughs and have a conversation about how much, you know, we actually gain and give to each other in order for us to move through this crazy life. And I have to tell you, when she said that to me, I just almost started bursting into tears because she just said, you know, talking to you makes me happy, you know, And I. I just rarely think that or. Or hear that.

[Stephanie]

Right. So I think the takeaway today is fairly straightforward. You know, first off, pleasure is easy, but happiness is earned. You got. You know, you earned it in today, in just the relationship that you create. The more you chase pleasure, the more elusive I think happiness becomes.

[Francie]

Ooh, ooh. Don't worry about that, cowboy. Say that one again. The more you chase pleasure, the more elusive happiness comes. Is that what you said?

[Stephanie]

Yes.

[Francie]

Wow.

[Stephanie]

Nothing along that line. But it comes back to what we talk about often, which is when we focus on fulfillment, like, what really lights us up, the pleasure becomes a byproduct of that. So when we come back to just being and having clarity, if we're really clear on what matters to us, which is our purpose of giving, of being a. Or making a difference in other people's lives, that makes us happy. But out of that comes pleasure, comes joy, and it is far more fulfilling. And really, I think that's what this particular episode of Mindset Matters is really all about, is helping listeners shift their thinking, bringing it to their awareness to give it some thought, to see where maybe some of their patterns are, their habits are, and how we can get drawn down those rabbit holes pretty easily. So any last words?

[Francie]

Well, no, I guess I do like this episode because I went on a little bit of a ride and a roller coaster about it as well, and thinking about what brings me pleasure also brings me happiness, which is purpose and. But having the distinction. And I think about the athletes and the coaches that I know over the years and having some success and having some happiness in an environment like sport, for example. But then when the pleasure wanes or you keep trying to force it, or you're seeking some happiness and you're not getting the same results and you see, stay a little bit too long. You know, I'm wondering. I'd love to be able to unpack that on another podcast. Is what happens to. To us if we are hanging on to something from the past or hanging on to where we were somebody special or we had some success, and we keep trying to repeat that pattern. And I think that can be, you know, lead to more seeking of pleasure, more seeking, like everything outside of me results outside of me. The wind outside of me, I want it more, more. And more and then not knowing or noticing when it comes to a natural close. And I think that to me is important when it comes to to happiness and joy. And even my favorite word in the world is peace is that knowing when something comes to an end doesn't mean it's not going to be sad. And there might not be some grieving, but to not cover up, cover it up by seeking more pleasure so that you don't have to feel the pain of something coming to to a close.

[Stephanie]

Wonderful. Great insights. Thanks for sharing that and I'm feeling pretty happy about this episode.

[Francie]

Stephanie Me too. That was fun.

[Patrick]

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and.

[Stephanie]

Review and share with others.

[Patrick]

Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener.

[Stephanie]

Listener.

[Patrick]

If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email [e-mail].

[Stephanie]

That'S C E O R E I.

[Patrick]

N Canada.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time.

[Stephanie]

Patrick oh.