Patrick (3:32)

Yes. And we'll expand on one more step. It's not good or bad. It's just that once you understand it, then you can actually put it to work. And that's really what we're talking about in this episode. More on that in just a minute. So when we look at ego, it's sometimes related to self esteem, but there's a fundamental difference, which is ego seeks validation, whereas self esteem seeks truth. And that's an important distinction that we can make when it comes to understanding the difference between ego and self esteem. So I'm going to pause any comment.

Stephanie Hanlon (4:06)

Yeah, the thing with self esteem, though, it's rooted truly in. In self awareness. And the reason I love this definition is because when we think of self esteem and self awareness, it's truly about understanding and seeking to understand first before we're understood. And in many ways, when we are not understood, then sometimes we can get quite defensive. And being defensive for me is a trigger that I'm in my ego.

Patrick (4:31)

Good point. Now, to expand on that a little bit. You know, the. Our egos actually thrive on comparison and control, whereas self esteem. Okay, so in other words, ego measures success based on external validation, you know, status, approval, winning, all of those things where when we think about self esteem, that is truly self. It is owned by ourselves. It is an internal job, not an external job. Fair statement.

Stephanie Hanlon (5:01)

Yeah, I think I don't also want to step over the fact that a lot of times when you look at winning or putting yourself out there to be judged or striving or. Or wanting to be better at something, I don't think that's a negative thing. I think that's. But some people take it as negative. You know, look at that person trying to be, you know, better than me or winning or beating or competing. And, you know, I think over the last decade or so, it's really been vilified. You know, winning has been vilified, and some of the terms that we've been using in the last little while on this podcast and that we, you know, when you think about moving forward, the trajectory that we want to be on, to actually be our best selves, it just. It means we have to refine and define our ego. If not, then, you know, we're. If we're just leading with humility all the time, then sometimes it can be.

Patrick (5:46)

Taken advantage of a hundred percent. Yeah. And. And I guess ego, if we're. If we're aware of it again, it can inflate us or deflate us. We could be naive. That's also ego playing small. So there's some parts of it that we have to kind of really dig into. We'll do a little bit more of that as we go on here. But, you know, within ego, there is the art of ego detachment. So remembering that you are not your thoughts and you are not your feelings, our ego has us believe that we're either one of those. And so the awareness of it is making sure that we are in control of that ego to understand is sometimes what is driving us. It's like saying, he pissed me off, he insulted me. She. Whatever the case may be, the reality of it is, no, that's not the case at all. He or she, you know, those words is how you took them on is how your ego, how it landed on your ego. And it's a bruised ego and all those terms that we use. But understanding that somebody can offend you, they can't really offend you, what they say. And if you let it offend you, if your ego lets that happen, that's what goes on. So these are really subtle controls and nuances that we have to understand about what drives some of these things.

Stephanie Hanlon (7:03)

So if I say, you know, you really piss me off, that's actually not a fair statement. The shift is into your statement or your actions. I felt pissed off or I felt insulted or I felt whatever. And I think where right now, especially with all the psyops that are going on, is that we're being led to believe that things outside of us can hurt us. Things outside of us can judge or define us when the truth is we're doing that ourselves. So the minute our ego gets stroked a little bit and pulls us out and then we get supported with whether it's the masses or whatever, then they say, yeah, we are all insulted, and you did this. And it becomes a judgment from an external source. That's where I get. I, you know, I can speak in there and say, you know what? You didn't piss me off. I'm pissed off.

Patrick (7:52)

Yes. Two different things, and I'm letting your words piss me off. It goes back to every kid has learned, you know, sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me. And they can't hurt you unless you know, literally, they can't hurt you unless you let them hurt you if you take it on that way. And that's all part of ego. That's really what that is all about.

Stephanie Hanlon (8:15)

But that's why so many people in this, this particular culture right now are offended. Because they're saying that people can say things or they can look at them sideways or being offended actually means something. It's like, okay, so your feelings are not more important than facts. I didn't offend you. You became offended. Sometimes I can piss people off just by walking into a room and I haven't even said anything yet. And what am I supposed to do? Apologize for that?

Patrick (8:40)

You piss me off all the time.

Stephanie Hanlon (8:42)

I can't piss you off. You can be pissed off by my.

Patrick (8:45)

I get pissed off. There you go. Okay, fine. Be that way. Okay, so, you know, part of all of this is about self reflection, or a lot of it is all about self reflection and then kind of paying attention to some of these things that show up for us. So the question that we sometimes have to ask ourselves is, how can I use my ego to serve my purpose rather than my insecurities? In other words, we start to master our ego because there's not. You don't even want to. If you could eliminate it. It's not about that. It's about mastering it in understanding that your ego can in fact, work for you, not against you. And there's a comparison that is like a fire. It can be warm and you can guide it and it can light the way, or it can consume you and destroy you. If, like a fire, it's left unchecked, it will burn the house down. So we have to be really aware of it so that we don't have the proverbial Meltdowns that often are just driven by ego. And when you really reflect on some of the things that get us fired up, myself included, is how I take on the words and that makes a difference who it comes from. So there is that. We often say, is that your opinion of me is none of my business. You may as well just keep it to yourself. Anyways, speaking of which, are we going to carry on? You ready?

Stephanie Hanlon (10:05)

Yeah, yeah, keep going.

Patrick (10:07)

Okay, so the goal here is to kind of give a couple of scenarios. My thought is give some scenarios for our listeners to use in their own day to day and maybe these examples will inspire some thoughts in and around what they do on a day to day. So let's talk about ego in business. So this is a real popular one where you have the fear of looking incompetent. You know, maybe you're already operating on the top of. On top of, I feel like a fraud. You know, some people find themselves in those positions. It's like, I'm faking it till I make it and I'm feeling like a fraud. When you think about the fear of looking incompetent, that is really ego driven. Not saying it's good or bad. Again, we become aware of that. But when you look at it from the point of view, for example, an entrepreneur, we'll use an example where the entrepreneur refuses to delegate important tasks because they actually believe that no one can do it as well as they can. You and I have conversations with entrepreneurs. We've been through this ourselves, and they end up overworking themselves. Their ceiling of limitation is themselves. And then they start to micromanage their team. They resist any kind of feedback because they equate asking for help with weakness. This was one that I had to bust through. And it's a tough one. If you let it kind of control you, your ego does definitely get in the way of being brave or courageous enough to accept help or even ask for help. So they actually, as an entrepreneur, as a leader or as a manager, you see that role as your identity. And if you start to lose that identity in your world, in the ego's world, you're less valuable.

Stephanie Hanlon (12:01)

But that's again, that's the definition. So there's also the other side of that is we're also taught as entrepreneurs or as business people and leaders that we have to lead by example. And I think that's where the ego can take it across the line too far, where they go, well, I'm leading by example, but obviously I'm the best person for the job. To do it. So here, just move out of the way. I'll just do this myself. So there's two sides to that. So there's a point where you can lead by example and really then empower the people around you to pick up the ball and take it where they want to be able to take it with your support. Or there's also the side, well, I can't drop the ball because if I do, that's what I'm teaching my team, is that I'll drop the ball. So there's so many subtleties in this particular one as business owners or entrepreneurs is that we want to be seen as competent, we want to be seen as successful and knowing what we're doing. But then you fold in the leadership conversation. And to empower the people around you to be brilliant, you have to also have enough awareness, self awareness, and have enough, you know, belief in yourself and in your team to then step back. And that takes a lot of ego management.

Patrick (13:09)

Yeah. And it takes reflection, you know, to your earlier statement, that lead by example. I mean, that's such a common kind of theme. But if you're that entrepreneur that is in the doing this of it and trying to transition from being a technician in the business, being the solopreneur entrepreneur as opposed to the owner, this is such a difficult shift for many entrepreneurs to become the business owner. So in other words, you don't actually lead by example. If you're going to scale your business, you have to duplicate some talent. You have to do things that you actually have to hire people to do things that you're not good at. So then you look at it and you go, okay, I'm stepping back. I cannot do this role. But I need this role in order to scale my business. I don't have the talent. I need to hire somebody far more equipped or smarter than I am to do the job. And this is, are you leading by example then? Well, by that definition, by most people's definition, you are not, but you just don't have the talent. So you have to, in fact, the leadership in that, the ego in that steps back and goes, you're not equipped to do this. A great leader, a smart leader, a smart business owner, is going to hire somebody that is far better at doing something that you don't have the skills to do, the desire to do whatever that might be.

Stephanie Hanlon (14:34)

You become the block of the growth of the business too.

Patrick (14:38)

Yes. So when you look at some staff, they're going to look at it as, or even managers, supervisors, they look at that feedback sometimes as criticism and rather than an opportunity to improve. So the ego is saying, oh, you're. You're being criticized. You know, there must be something wrong with you. And ultimately somebody, if with good leadership skills or a mentor, it, you know, you're gets. Gets true to them, that your job isn't to do everything. It's to build a business that thrives without. And so that's the difficult part of letting go, delegating, not abdicating, and that realizing that letting go of control actually is what provides and allows you to grow.

Stephanie Hanlon (15:29)

Well, it's also understanding, too, is that I think about as you're talking is, you know, me growing up, I was always coached. And when you're being coached all the time, you're always being told what you're doing wrong. So I've grown a bit of a thick skin when it comes to that. So when people are giving me feedback or they're coaching me or they're telling me what I'm not doing, well, I'm actually really receiving it and absorbing it differently. And I remember a couple of times when we were talking and I would. I was thinking the same thing about you, and there were times you'd said to me, you know, stop criticizing me. I'm like, oh, whoa, shoot. Sorry. I'm.

Patrick (16:01)

I'm not.

Stephanie Hanlon (16:02)

I'm just giving feedback. And I remember thinking, isn't that interesting? You know, you and I could go to the golf course and you could coach me for a whole hour on my. My backswing or whatever, even though, you know, we're equally as bad golfers. But I go to do it to you, and you couldn't take it. And there's things that over the years, you've really taught me about being coachable because I've watched your struggle, and I've watched you grow as a human, as a business owner. And your ability now to receive feedback and coaching is just. It's brilliant because it just moves everything forward so much faster.

Patrick (16:38)

Well, it does. And it's actually, you know, that's such a good point because it was definitely one of my blind spots. It was my. There was a time where it was my kryptonite, and I didn't realize it. I had the. I had the that. What is it? Coming to Jesus Conversation with a team and a coach, and. And it was not. It wasn't that. It was. It was so apparent to everybody that they had trouble. It's not that I got mad or angry. I got defensive. You know, I justified and quantified and qualified and did all those things. So it was really. But it was years ago. But you're right, but it has been epic in change. But I'll tell you one thing is I'm still very, very aware of it. Like I, when somebody is as I, you know, as I grow and, and form my CEO forum group, that peer to peer group that I'm putting together here in the Fraser Valley is that I'm being supported by a mentor by Nancy McKay, who is McKay CEO forums. And I'm noticing that even as she is talking with me, she only wants me to succeed and get the group and put it together and do all those things. But I'm watching my own or being very aware of my own self talk as she's giving me feedback in some of the things I'm doing and how I'm going forward. It's not criticism at all, and I know it's not, but my brain is saying, oh my gosh, you're not doing it right, you're broken. Whatever. It's just all these random thoughts. I'm just being very aware of it. So it is kind of funny. Which is only to say that when we look at business owners and the ego around it, we have to ask ourselves, where in our businesses or as managers, supervisors, where are you clinging to control because you're fearing appearing weak or replaceable or incompetent or not smart enough or whatever that might be? The not enoughness. Right?

Stephanie Hanlon (18:35)

Yeah, no kidding. And that really, it shows up too in relationship. Right.

Patrick (18:39)

Well, okay, so that's a good one because I want to talk about ego when it comes to friendship. And this is one that we've talked about a lot, which is the need to be right, you know, two friends, even significant others, you know, disagreement. Although you and I rarely disagree. No, we always disagree anyways, you know, one friend is convinced that they are right, one party is convinced they are right. Refuses to apologize, refuses to step down or even entertain the thought that the other person's perspective may be great and, or right. And that maybe their perspective is not really all that accurate. So they cut off communication, they fight back, they get pissed off, they walk out the door, they slam it. And you know, your ego says, those guys are just assholes. They don't want to listen to me. And then underlying all that is our ego's belief that admitting fault means losing respect. Admitting fault means.

Stephanie Hanlon (19:44)

You say it again.

Patrick (19:46)

Admitting fault is what it means that. So the belief that admitting fault means you're losing respect, oh man, that's Good. Isn't that good? I know. So when we start to prioritize being right over maintaining the friendship, I mean, how many times have we shut down? You know, as we've gained some skills in this, you know, when somebody's arguing with us and we know that they're offside, we know that sometimes the question is that we ask them, which really, do you just need to be right? You know, are you right fighting? And that will often shut that conversation down or it'll piss people off. Sometimes they really.

Stephanie Hanlon (20:29)

I don't know. A couple hundred podcasts ago, we did a conversation, a podcast about the need to be right. And we said, okay, there's right fighters. You can fight against somebody and having the need to be right, and you both put your stake in the ground and you fight over it, and then both of you walk away unfulfilled, unsatisfied and angry, or you put the side and go, you know, what are we fighting for? Are we fighting for clarity? Are we fighting for intimacy? Are we. What are we fighting for perspective? Are we fighting to maintain and keep our relationship going, or are we fighting against it? And to me, that was a big shift when we started. When I started understanding and learning about, it's okay to have a difference of opinion. It's okay to not understand what the other person's saying. But I would rather, and I love the saying is put the relationship before being right. And I really seen that over the last few years where relationships, family, friends, even marriages have. Have broken up because some of the. The distance between the need to be right is so big, you know, the. The gap is so strong that there is no way of coming back. And I'm not saying that that's not always good or bad. Sometimes it's good because it does force you to look at what your own values are. And I think sometimes there are a point in time where the relationship does need to come to a graceful end. And, you know, sadly, sometimes that comes with. With fighting. But the need to be right is, I think, a thread that if we could just get out of the emotion or the adrenalized experience of the argument or the. Or the. The disconnect is where do I need to be right? And do I want to be right more than I want to be graceful.

Patrick (22:11)

Happy, right, you know, is being right more important than the friendship? And often that is, in fact, what goes on. And I mean right to like marriages, romantic relationships, where people will butt heads around the strong need to be right? And that could be a pattern of One of the partners is the strong need to be right that somebody the other partner is putting up with. They see it as a blind spot, but at some point they hit the limit. Then there's a big fight and it's a huge breakdown. So, you know, can we take the time to. First off, anytime we're talking about self reflection, that is already an elevated conversation. I've had many conversations with people going, you know, when you self reflect and when I say that their face goes blank. It's like, what is that? What do you mean by that? There's like zero self reflection or they're not, they're not even aware of their self reflection. It's interesting, right? So the point of it is, is that can we elevate our, our own view of ourselves in terms of that self reflection to be able to say that was my ego's need to be right. Was it really so important that I was. Would risk putting this relationship, put this relationship at risk to fight to be right. And so if you can self reflect and realize that that's egos coming together and clashing, that you may just want to back down a little bit and reflect on what is. Why is it so important that I'm right? Because often there could be a reason that you need to be and that you're trying to make a point that is really, that really matters. But how often is that? That's far less often than. It's just minutia.

Stephanie Hanlon (23:55)

Well, I think to carry that point, I've seen it over a while and I just got something as you were talking is that I've seen and actually experienced, experienced relationships where the fight or the argument or the need to be right got so like, ridiculous where somebody couldn't even hear my apology or my, my trying to be responsible and say, you know, I really don't see your side, but I'm so sorry that it's taken us to this point. Is there anything I can do? Is there anything we can do, you know, or can we just pause and take a walk or something and just say, you know, let's take five or whatever, take a breath. But you know what I really got, There's a couple of relationships over the last couple of years that this was the excuse that it could end because I remember trying to apologize in a couple of scenarios and go, you know, I, I don't know what I did. And their response was, yes, you do. I'm like, no, actually don't. And I'm, I'm really trying to see your point. But what I got to was that they were so dug in and it was their excuse to end the relationship. I've seen it, I've experienced it, and I just don't want to step over that. Sometimes that's what happens.

Patrick (25:01)

Yeah, you know, there's. That's so true, isn't it? And along that lines, you know, there. Let's talk about ego in romantic relationships. So marriages as marriages or couples, whatever that might be. And there is the fear. Ego's fear of being vulnerable. So a person in a relationship, you know, really struggles to express. Express their emotions. And their partner asks, what's wrong? This is so good. And of course, the response is, men will really get this. Nothing. I'm fine. Okay? Fine. Nothing, Nothing. I'm fine. Fucked up, insecure, neurotic and emotional. I'm fine. Okay? Right, okay. Quit it. So really deep down, what they're fearing is opening up is going to make them look weak and that their emotions will then ultimately be used against them. And there is some risk of that. You know, there is definitely, you know, sometimes you hear stories of where somebody was vulnerable and it went sideways because somebody looked at them as, holy cow, you are really messed up. But in fact, they're not. They were just expressing, you know, being vulnerable and expressing some of what they're on. So I share a story here on this podcast. There's some vulnerability in that somebody can go like. And go, francie, you know, whatever judgment they have, I mean, I can't care about that. But the point of it is, is that if I did, I would not be able to share that story. I'd have to be concerned with, well, okay, well, people are going to judge me as weak. And we, of course, have come to realize that vulnerability. Being able to be vulnerable in the right scenarios is, in fact, a show of strength. And the ego, on the other hand, will say, no, that's weakness, and it's going to be used against you. So don't be vulnerable. But of course, in a romantically relationship, that makes the relationship pretty shallow. Any thoughts?

Stephanie Hanlon (27:13)

Yeah, a lot of thoughts. When I think about over the years and whether it's us or, you know, friends that we have know and have been through, you know, tough times with relationship with their romantic partners, their spouse, whatever. One of the things I found about the vulnerability piece is that if one of the people has been really, really hurt by the actions of another, it's not sometimes that the, like, the person that quote, unquote, did the hurting doesn't want to, you know, kind of drop their guard or their ego. What I've discovered on, on a couple of different occasions is that the thought of them hurting their partner or the somebody that they love so much is too painful. So it's not just that there's a vulnerability in that, you know, inequality of vulnerability, but what happens when. So if I hurt you, for example, I do something that's really mean or I've hurt you and it hasn't been on purpose, Sometimes you think about, oh my God, I love this person so much. How could I have done that? How dare I do that? So to admit that to oneself is also really, really difficult. So sometimes the guard comes up and you fight to be right or just not admit it because it's too painful to think that you've hurt that person so much. So I think there's a couple of different sides to that when it comes to romantic relationships. So yes, the vulnerability and the power and the vulnerability and the trusting of yourself, like I want to trust myself that I can be vulnerable for myself. Sure, I want to, you know, open my heart and. But I also know that you're not going to hurt me in that scenario. Early on in relationship, in relationships, sometimes you don't know that or if you don't have proof of that, or if you don't have evidence because you've seen your partner or someone that you love hurt someone else, sometimes there's that, that guard that comes up. So how do we navigate kind of that side of it, do you think?

Patrick (29:05)

Well, I think they're, you know, first off you have to risk, well, you, at some point you have to risk being vulnerable in that relationship. And then the risk is a couple things, you know, number one, you risk the vulnerability and then how does the person respond to that? Because some people, if you actually show up and be vulnerable, they will hold it against you. They will see it as a weakness because it won't resonate with them. So in other words, if you can't then talk through that and together and collectively have a much deeper conversation about that, then they're probably not the right person for you anyways. I mean, there is ultimately the whole point of the relationship. Once you get beyond all of the, you know, the fun stuff early on in a relationship, there's just the day to day life. There is the actual having conversations and intimacy and understanding that intimacy is about that level of communication and being able to have the courage and then the respect of each other to actually be vulnerable in those conversations. Because we go through our stuff and actually when you think about vulnerability and being vulnerable, sometimes it is in those moments that you get and you come out the other side where that vulnerability. You can look at it because you've expressed it, is you come out the other side of it going, huh, what the hell was I talking about in my head? What was I talking about in my head? Now that you've put it on the table and talked it through, it's like nothing burger. Right. So it's another way to look at that. But in early on in a relationship, or if you want to take a relationship to the next level, I think that equally trusting each other and caring for each other is about sharing those vulnerabilities.

Stephanie Hanlon (30:48)

Yeah, I agree. And it's also knowing what line to cross and not to cross with someone that you love.

Patrick (30:54)

Yeah, yeah. So there's a. There's a phrase, you know, you've used it actually not so much anymore, but you. There was a time where you used a phrase along the line of, I don't need you to be perfect. I need you to be honest. And then that takes conversations and relationships to the next level. So in a practical kind of use, wherever you are in your relationship, generally women, but men are that way too. If men tell the truth about it, they also are seeking a level of intimacy. And sometimes that intimacy. And I'm not talking about physical intimacy, by the way. I'm talking about intimacy where you are, in fact, having meaningful conversations and being vulnerable and kind of solving life's problems and being able to have those conversations. So are you looking to take your relationship to a new level? You know, go a little deeper and. Or are you holding back because you don't want to occur as being weak man who is like traditional man? I look after my wife, I look after my kids. I take. You know, I'm the warrior in this family. They may look at being vulnerable as a weakness. On the other side of that, wives in general with husbands like that don't look at it as a weakness. They actually embrace having those kinds of conversations. That's how I've experienced it. That's how I've had conversations with different men. What's your experience? Because you work through couples all the time.

Stephanie Hanlon (32:30)

It's true. Well, I think the word intimacy, it's such an important word because to your point, it's not just sexual or physical intimacy that we seek and we want from each other. I love the breakdown of the word intimacy into. Into me. See, when I'm wanting intimacy, it's my ability for you or for to let someone see who I am. I'm not asking for anything from you or from anybody else, but I'm vulnerable or I'm. I'm surrendering enough to show you what is going on for me. And that's, I think, where the risk is so into me. See, so sometimes I've been accused of, you know, going too deep, too fast, you know, and people don't want to get that deep and they don't want to get that intimate. And I said, well, that's fine. I can be the deepest shallow person in the room or the shallowest deep person in the room, whatever it takes. I don't need that from everybody. But, you know, in, in our case, you know, I don't want to have those barriers and with the people around me. And sometimes I don't know what line to not cross. You know, I want the people around me in business and our colleagues and the people that support us and on our teams. And at the same time, I know that as a coach, there's a certain line I can't cross. There's things that they don't want to know about me. They don't want to see my vulnerability, they don't want to see my, my. They don't want me to surrender. They. They don't want to know anything about my life. So it really is having again, the self reflection and the self awareness to know what line, you know, where to. To move the goal line when it comes to showing who you are. Lifting your kilt. As my mom used to say, don't be lifting your kilt too early, girl. Don't show them too much about who you are too soon. And that's only just again, having that self awareness and that at certain times there is a place where it's important to really lift your kilt and let people see who you are and then they can truly judge you. And that's what you were talking about. Like for example, in ice dance with the couples, they're touching each other six to eight hours a day. They have to show intimacy and sometimes romantic, you know, connection when they have zero. Some of them don't even like each other. So that's a performance side of that. But knowing who they are and trusting their own vulnerability and their own intimacy with themselves that they don't have to, you know, fake it till you make it, so to speak, they can actually show the world or show their partner who they are and still protect their heart. And I think that's important when it comes to knowing thyself. Right. Knowing thyself, as Socrates said.

Patrick (35:01)

Okay, so as we wind this up, some recap, I guess, is if we can kind of summarize. That's the word I'm looking for. So in business, we have to remember that ego can definitely get on our way of growth. It stops us from delegating because we think that we're showing a sign of weakness. We're not open to receiving feedback. And the reality is that growth actually happens when you let go of control and empower others. And having been through this scenario so many times over the years with managers and staff, overall, they really feel like, oh, I got to do it. I got to do it. No, get out of the way and let your team step up. They'll amaze you if you just get the hell out of the way. So good reminder there. In friendship, remember that ego will have you prioritize being right over having that connection with a good friend. And we start to understand that growth happens when you choose understanding over winning. You know the old phrase, seek first to understand, then to be understood, as Stephen Covey Covey says, and I love that particular comment. And then finally, in our romance, relationships, love relationships, if you will, we have to remember that ego has us sometimes fear being vulnerable because we think it's going to represent weakness. And our actual growth within that relation happens when we remain true to ourselves, let ourselves be seen by being vulnerable with that person that is close to us, and risk. Risk having them see it as weakness, but more likely they're going to see it as strength. So that's kind of how I would summarize it. What would you add?

Stephanie Hanlon (37:11)

The only thing I would add is that I don't want this to get caught up into. You know, I. I was thinking about your men's group, your shift men's group. It didn't start out that way. It was, you know, we're doing a shift program and a couple of the women canceled, and next thing you knew, it turned into a men's group, where I said, you know, I'm going to back off and see what happens. Because for you to facilitate a group of men who are committed to development, personal growth, intimate intimacy in the relationship, success in business, like it was all seven areas of life. And what was. And I never got to be privy obviously, to those. To those meetings. But what I saw in you was your ability to facilitate powerful group of powerful men connect on a level that truly inspired and empowered their sacred masculine so that they could be intimate. They could be, you know, drop their guard a Little bit. I'm not saying it's super vulnerable because there was still, you know, the. The jokes and the. Every time, you know, that talking business and all that stuff. And it was so powerful to. To know that there was a group of guys out there that were moving forward and committed to this kind of egoless development. So I really, you know, kudos to you for doing that on this. On the other side. Sorry, go ahead.

Patrick (38:24)

I just want to say I'm really proud of those guys because they still get together occasionally, and it's a space that they can step into and get into a meaningful conversation, perhaps that they can't get to. They can't get into at work or in another scenario. Right. They develop that relationship. They tested their vulnerability. And, you know, nobody laughed at them or nobody thought they were weak. You know that. But it takes time to. To do that. So I'm. I'm really proud of the work that they did. It's really great. Anyways, I didn't want. I just wanted to say that. I don't know why. Anyway.

Stephanie Hanlon (38:57)

No, no, it's fine. And I'm not sure why I brought it up other than when they first started. A lot of them came from the shift group, and they were with some of their spouses, et cetera. And there was that certain level of armor that we talked about at the beginning. But as they started to drop their guard or drop their armor, you really got to see the humor and the power and the brilliance of these guys. And I think the same thing happens in. In groups of women is that when women can support women from a place of. Of just seeing their brilliance and seeing, you know, I said to my girlfriend, sometimes I see who you are. Just straighten that crown and get back in there, you know, and to support the shit out of powerful women without gossip and without backstabbing, because we're, you know, we're in. Into a scenario where women are pitted against women and men against men, and it's like, oh, yeah, no, let's. Let's get back to the truth of who we are. The sacred masculine, the sacred feminine. You know, I've got a lot of masculine qualities, and I know that. And I've worked really hard to develop my vulnerability. And I've learned over the years is that my power is in my vulnerability.

Patrick (39:58)

Okay, so, Brian Holiday, ego is the enemy. Then there's the phrase we've used it, ego is not your amigo. But let's flip that around. The reality of it is when you use ego, when you become aware of your ego. It is a powerful insight into who you are and how you can shift to manage and actually I don't want to say control but you can. You control your ego and you can use it as a powerful tool to your growth. So we covered a lot of ground.

Stephanie Hanlon (40:32)

I like that because if you don't control your ego, chances are it's going to control you.

Patrick (40:38)

Good job.

Stephanie Hanlon (40:39)

Thanks son. That was fun.

Patrick (40:42)

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast please take the time to read, rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered please email me@ceoaincanada.com that's C E O R E I N Canada.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until until next time, Patrick goes.