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The Everyday Millionaire and Mindset Matters Podcast
Mindset Matters – Episode #201 – Why Certainty Is an Illusion and How to Thrive Without It
00:33:35
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to this episode of the everyday Millionaire Mindset Matters podcast, where I'm joined by my wife, Olympic mental performance coach Stephanie Hanlon. Francie. In these episodes, Stephanie and I have a conversation about the different aspects of what we refer to as mindset matters because we believe that for those who are awake, we are living in and through the most impactful time and in history. Your view of the world is the filter for how you will experience the evolution and changing dynamics of it. Our intention is to provide you with ideas, nutritious food for thought, and some tools that you can use to help you in being your greatest self and living your best life. Listen in. Enjoy. Is finding certainty in an uncertain world all just an illusion? And is all of our anxiety and worry really worth it? Let's talk about it. Stephanie. Welcome to another episode of Mindset Matters.
- [01:05]
B
Hi, hon. That's a great question.
- [01:07]
A
Isn't it a great question? So I want to give it a little bit of body and context, as you know, I like to do. So let me open up with the fact that life is uncertain. We know that, and that's truly the only certainty that we have, is that life's uncertain.
- [01:25]
B
Well, and death and taxes.
- [01:27]
A
Death and taxes. Let's not forget about death and tax. Yet most of us, myself included, can find ourselves living in a constant or at least a consistent search for security, for more clarity. Hence, clarity equals velocity and the right answers, and in some regard, wanting control. But here's the fundamental issue. When we don't find it, we're all familiar with what shows up, which is anxiety, worry, analysis, paralysis, all of those things. So today I want to kind of flip that perspective and explore how we can actually embrace uncertainty, not fight it. And that can be the key to, I think, a far more powerful and fulfilling life lifestyle and probably even propel a little bit of success. What's your thoughts?
- [02:27]
B
Well, I think to your point, uncertainty is kind of like a blank canvas. It's like a whiteboard that hasn't been written on yet. And that can cause a lot of stress for certain people because they want to know, like, people that I know and, you know, people that set goals, they want to know what the signposts are, what are the guideposts? Where are we going? We want certain. But the truth is, I think where uncertainty lives, if you can learn to manage the energy and the anxiety that comes up, is really important because I think being okay with uncertainty allows for curiosity and creativity.
- [03:06]
A
Good point. I find that here's the thing about all of this is that there's. The first phase of it is we worry. We, we have whatever anxiety that creates and we're thinking about answers that we don't have. There's a gap between what we know and what we don't know. What the outcome we want and getting to the outcome is two different things because that's where the uncertainty lives. Are we actually going to achieve it? I mean, we do lots of things where we're really confident in the outcome and it's just some version of, you know, how great the outcome is. But there's a lot of things that are happening. Let's just look at global economics and what's going on in the world right now. So first off, let's start there. There's a whole macro picture that many are worried about now. I get it. I look at what's going on in the world. I have some concerns around it, but I don't know that I worry about it, but I operate on top of it. So what I find for myself is that I'm really operating on top of this, kind of in parallel. You know, there's a lot of stuff going on out there. There's a lot of possibilities, a lot of maybes. Do we know what is going to happen? You know, with Russia, Ukraine, we've been through this before. Russia, Ukraine, China, Taiwan, west versus East. I mean, it's getting out of hand in so many ways and it's escalating. So there's a real concern there. I find that the best way for me to manage it is just go back to what fundamentally we know, what can we control, what can't we control? And ultimately we certainly can't control world wars or the lack thereof or what our government is doing or not doing. But it does cause again, I hold it as concern, being aware of it and saying, okay, what can I control? I can control how I react to it, number one. And I, we collectively can control what we prepare for. So in other words, you know, it's like, what are we prepared for? Are we, we look at the different scenarios, we create a thesis, we talk about possibilities, we talk about probabilities, and then we prepare and that's all we can do. So we can be certain about our reaction to something or how we hold the space for it. That was a long winded kind of rant answer. But you pick up anything off of that?
- [05:26]
B
Yeah, actually is to your point, is that certainty is, I want to say it's almost like a false reality. Because if you're looking for certainty or you're demanding certainty. I think what happens is, because so much is uncertain in life is that the anxiety creates such a physiological and a biological response in our bodies that, you know, and this is just a little bit of a psycho babble, but what it does is allows a certain hormone to get released into our body, which is cortisol, which is the stress response. So if we don't know what's happening in the future, which we never do, Right. We can create and set intentions and be committed to manifestation and the law of attraction and all those things, but we still don't know what's going to happen. And being familiar and getting uncomfortable with uncertainty, I believe is a high level skill in terms of emotional regulation and emotional co regulation. I'm not committed to understanding or needing to know. I have a high level and a deep level of trust in the fact that I'm living in alignment with our values and who we're becoming and what we're doing. And I can't control what's happening in the government or in the macroeconomics or even in the microeconomics. But what I can do is understand that I don't have to feel threatened by uncertainty. And I think that's what happens with a lot of people, is that the human condition is that when we don't know something, we feel threatened, a threat. And I think that's what I'd like to unpack a little bit today.
- [07:03]
A
There's a. There's a couple things that show up for me in this whole conversation. You know, first and foremost is, let's go back to what you said. It creates cortisol in your body. Well, just for those who might be struggling with weight and being able to lose weight or feeling like they're gaining weight really easily. Let's put it this way, if you're pretty focused on your diet, you know, it is, it's cortisol, anxiety, worry. Actually. It kicks your body into survival and it will actually prevent or be part of why you can't lose weight sometimes.
- [07:35]
B
Because your body wants to protect itself, right? It's like, oh my God, I got to store fat. Because you know, what if we get attacked by the wolves or whatever. But my mom always used to say is that worry is a tax you pay on something that's never happened or may never happen. So it's like a pre tax, pre tax. It's like, why am I paying tax on something? Why am I worried about something that A, hasn't happened and B, we can't confirm that it will Happen. So the, The. The commitment to understanding uncertainty versus the needing to control. And I think that's. I don't know if you want to talk about the cont. You know, trying to control the uncontrollable, because that's where that feeling of anxiousness lives or anxiety. I think that's kind of my psycho babble.
- [08:20]
A
Well, there's. There's a couple of other aspects of this, for sure. Right. And. And that is that we've been on this planet long enough, we're both old enough. And, and, oh, speak for yourself. Okay, I'm old enough.
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B
I'm still learning.
- [08:33]
A
Yeah, well, I'm still learning, there's no doubt about it. But I am old enough to know that, you know, within the uncertainty and with what as life unfolds. I mean, think about how the most stressful times in our life, and even if it's a year, two, five years later, you look back and you realize that all the worry was for naught, although it was painful and you went through a lot of different stuff, perhaps most of the time, and I would say, in my case, I'm going to say 100% of the time, it turned out to be for the reasons it turned out to be, which were the right reasons. And I can see how the dots connected and it all unfolded exactly as it should.
- [09:14]
B
Maybe that's why you have gray hair and a gray beard.
- [09:17]
A
Maybe. Or just could be that I'm an old man. So there's another side to this, too, which is, you know, think about a couple friends that we have who literally, as much as they worry, they have stuff, they just turn it over to God, knowing that their worry and anxiety is really a waste of time, because.
- [09:37]
B
Let go and let God, I think, is what they've said.
- [09:39]
A
Yes. Now, the point of that is not to say, well, you know, believe in God. If you do, that's awesome. If you don't, that's awesome. My point is that there is a methodology for how do you see the world in terms of anxiety, in terms of worry, and in terms of uncertainty that we get addicted to, believing that we should be living in a certain life, that life should be more certain, we shouldn't have to work as hard, it should be easier. All of the things that. When we start to frame the narrative of uncertainty to be. No, this is what develops the muscles that we need to build resilience. The one thing else that you said. I'll go back to that you said earlier, which is the uncertainty happens. But you have to have confidence in your skill set or in your ability to pivot, should you get thrown a proverbial curveball that you weren't expecting. And so there's that other side of it. And if you're confident in your ability to pivot, if you're confident in your ability to read a situation and put in a correction and. Or respond in a way that's effective, then all of a sudden, the uncertainty just becomes part of life. And I think for many, it's that way. I know for us, it's that way. Although sometimes we both find the world of uncertainty being a little disconcerting. Having said that, if we just take some time to get grounded and kind of know what we know, that things unfold the way they need. Don't force the river. Make sure that you're tapped into your higher power, your higher self, and things have a tendency and to stay. Ever wonder what life is like with a phantom screen?
- [11:23]
B
It's magic.
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A
It is. Oh, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
- [11:29]
B
What is that? This is amazing.
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A
Retractable screens for your home. Make life better. Visit phantom screens.com present don't live into an imagined future, right.
- [11:39]
B
And understand that what if uncertainty is just the groundwork for possibility, right? I always say to my clients, and, you know, when we get into this goal setting and, you know, they set goals, and all of a sudden the challenges come up and the tests come up, and I say, what if my certainty can squish your doubt? What if my certainty. Because as a coach or as a person who can look from the outside, right, you look from the outside and you say, okay, if we're going to stay committed to these goals, I'm certain you're going to bump up to the fear. You're going to bump up to uncertainty. But what if my certainty can squish your doubt? And that really creates a lot of comfort in people, because when I believe in somebody, and you know this to be true, too, Han, if is that when we have coaching clients, we believe in them so much, and then they start to doubt, they start to have uncertainty, and they start to backpedal on their goals and what it is they want. Our job is to hold the space of certainty. I mean, I need that from you, and I'm uncertain, and I think you kind of borrow that certainty. It's like confidence, right? Like we borrow it from each other. But for me, when as we. As. As we move through this pro, especially as we kind of are. Are unpacking mind shui is that I really get that when we start realigning the hidden beliefs and. And. And we work people through. I mean, they already have their answers. Like, we're not. We're no gurus. Come on. Like, if you've listened to our podcast, we are not gurus. But what we are is, like, we're gu. Instead of fearing uncertainty, what if you see it as life's greatest constant?
- [13:23]
A
This goes back to what we said, I think, in the opening, which is the only certainty that we do have is in the uncertainty that we can be certain about is the uncertainty.
- [13:31]
B
And as a control freak. Okay, not speaking for myself, but as a control freak, how do you handle that?
- [13:38]
A
You're asking me that? I'm not the control freak.
- [13:40]
B
You're the control freak. You like to know what's happening.
- [13:43]
A
Quit it. Stop it. Stop it. Okay, so there's a couple of things that, you know, you mentioned mind shui, and really. Mind shui. Feng shui, for the mind is rearranging the clutter of our minds, the clutter of our brains. And when we live in this world of uncertainty, our mind hates it. Our brain hates it. It can't stand it. It wants certainty, so it seeks certainty. And then what do we do? We get into a narrative. We drink our own Kool Aid.
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B
We.
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A
Then we have. What's the word? Bias, of course.
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B
Confirmation bias. Then we seek everything that confirms what.
- [14:20]
A
We are afraid of, and we kick anything that doesn't align with our belief. We kick it to the curb so that we can live into the uncertainty. So my point is that through all of this, we have to really lean into the reality that life is uncertain. And in that uncertainty lives opportunity. And in that uncertainty lives our opportunity to practice the resilience, to not go down the rabbit hole of drama, of victim, of a very low adversity quotient. You know, we've talked about AQ many times. How are you for adversity? This is all part of the clutter of our minds. You know, whether we get rid of our hidden beliefs, we get rid of the worry and anxiety by realizing that uncertainty is just part of life. That takes the edge off of it. It's not something happen us. Flip it. This is something that's happening for us. The uncertainty of the world gives us the opportunity to put a plan in place, to have auctions, to again, have a theory, a probability, a plan, and let it go. Because that's all you can do.
- [15:30]
B
But think about this. It's like. Like life is uncertain. Like, how is it that we can't have lived the last five years for sure, in the last couple decades, thinking that life is going to be certain. We know exactly if we do this, and A plus B equals C and it's certain. And then forever and ever, amen. And then the end. It's not a fairy tale. And I think what happens is that when, when I'm working with a client or, you know, we're having these conversations that there's a certain intolerance for insert uncertainty. You know what I mean? Like, well, if I'm not certain, then I don't know what's going on. And then the whole anxiety thing comes on. And in the psych world, there's something called gad, which is generalized anxiety disorder. And that comes from. It's related to an intolerance of uncertainty. I think in my conversations with clients and with you and I, is that we've increased our tolerance for uncertainty. Like, we're like possibility uncertain. Well, I don't know. What if A plus B equals C? What if this uncertainty can lead to a different future, a different outcome, and to really embrace and not let this gad, this generalized anxiety disorder take over. Because studies show that, like, the more worry we have, the more avoidance we're going to be. We're going to have. We're going to. We're going to remove ourselves from situations that challenge us or whatever, and then we. Then life just gets boring.
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A
Okay, but most people are looking for boring or they want their choice of what happens.
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B
Okay, well, you know, I can tell. Yeah, I get that. And I get there certain times, you know, that I encourage people to, you know, choose boring, but to have a resistance or an intolerance to uncertainty, to me, links directly to anxiety. And I'm not a psychologist, but I spend a lot of time with people that talk about their levels of anxiety is because they don't understand that it's okay not to have a certain future. It's okay to be writing on the whiteboard as you go.
- [17:36]
A
Yeah. You know, I was thinking about, you know, there's, there's. When you think about the. The control factor, you know, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking about the Karens of the world. You know, the. I ideologically, the screaming, yelling, being like nobody can understand what's going on. Just think about the tension, the anxiety that that person carries for that level, being certain, being certain and wanting control. And so, I mean, I'm giving that as an example because we're all familiar with that term. But I think, you know, when you really think about that. So here's the other side of this. Worry and anxiety. This is always about the thought process of, okay, well, I'm always worried, I've got anxiety, Acknowledge, acknowledge. But if you don't start to unpack it and then you realize that, that worry and anxiety is caused by uncertainty. Now it seems like, okay, well, I'm saying the same thing, but it's another layer, right? So when we, when we look at things in that, in that way, these are little micro steps that we can take. Because worry and anxiety are a big part of many people's lives. We, you know, we hear about it, we talk about it, we recognize it, we see it. And so there has to be a way to kind of unpack it and give it a breakdown. That is at least you have some tools to work with.
- [18:57]
B
So, well, think about it like, I didn't know we're going to talk about anxiety. But it really comes from a place of what we want to be certain for and what we can control and what we can't control and uncertainty. So there's this gap that happens where anxiety can come in. Right. So I think about, you know, I'm not driven by a lot of anxiety and I know that I can't control a lot of things. And I meditate. So for me, I realized that I can't. There's certain things I can't control. But what I can control is my physiology. You know, I work on my breath, I, I work on my vagus nerve. I work on things that, what I can control. But what happens is that I think as humans, we're wired for prediction. And if, and if we don't, if we can't predict a future, there's like a threat response that happens. Like we're gonna, like I'm gonna die. Right. And so we go into our ego and that, that threat response creates even more cortisol, which activates the anxiety. So I think what happens, you know, in, in certain situations, if we can create a new relationship with uncertainty, what if we reframe it? What if uncertainty just is certain? Like we know we're going to be uncertain.
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A
We know that's going to be. And that just becomes a fact.
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B
So it's a fact and be okay with it, right?
- [20:19]
A
Yeah. So there's a couple things around it. So let's kind of. Why do we, why do. I think it's an important topic? Why did I want to bring it up? You know, first and foremost, we see it all the time. There's health issues, related, you know, there's stats out there and certainly a lot of people who know who will make the statement that 95% of physical disorders is created by stress. Now, I'm not here to debate that, argue that data supports that, by the way. And some very, very accomplished people make that statement very clear. Manage your stress. Because the dis ease, our mental, emotional dis ease causes the disease. And that is something that you and I fully believe in. We've watched it, we've seen it, we've witnessed it. Nobody, you know, like I've done all the research. So the point is this. Manage your stress. There's mental costs. There's three things I want to hit on. Number one, there's the mental costs that happen. Number one, there's fatigue from the stress and from the anxiety. For example, if you're in a high stress job that you hate, you got a shitty boss, whatever the story is, that is mentally draining, that will crush you energetically. Secondly, you know, you have to have the awareness. I've used the phrase, one of my favorite quote, it's not the weight that we carry that breaks us down, it's the way we carry the weight. So are you even aware of how you're carrying that weight? You know, sure signs of it for most, myself included. Do you shut down decision making? Decision making, that would maybe even normally be easy. And all of a sudden you're going, I don't know, maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't.
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B
It's called decision fatigue.
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A
Decision fatigue, right. It's like in negotiation fatigue. Anyways, you get, your brain gets tired of it, right? Do you get short tempered? That would never be me, not you. I'm always Zen, like, oh my God, really? And then there's a term that I learned, you know, which is cognitive resistance. You are familiar with this one. So that goes back to what I said earlier. Our brain hates it, you know, it hates that uncertainty, which means our minds are, like you said, not liking the gaps we need to fill them. And our brain treats the questions, like you said, is as threats or fear. They drive the fear, okay? And then there's confirmation bias, which we talked about. And once we pick up on the answer that we have that makes us feel the most comfortable, we're going to stick by it and we're going to resist it. We don't want it.
- [22:58]
B
And we're going to continue to seek, whether it's algorithms or conversations, people that support our bias. And I think that's the other thing that we have to be mindful of when it comes to certainty versus uncertainty and being willing to step into uncertainty, which can lead to creativity, which can lead to opportunities, et cetera. But if we're looking for certainty and confirmation bias is something that is going to give us comfort, then ultimately, you know, even, you know, we're going to bypass people that challenge us. I mean, I've had people leave our life because we haven't been able to confirm there are certain biases. And, you know, I was. I posted something the other day, and it's just hilarious. It's a comedian talking about the difference about our lifestyle right now is that there's something weird that, you know, Gen Xers and boomers used to do. And she's, like, looking around and she's like, you know, it's called critical thinking. I know it sounds weird that you're going to actually look at two sides of a story. So when I think about confirmation bias, I think about certainty is that I need to be willing to be wrong. And remember when we first started this podcast, I remember say, what if I'm wrong? What if I'm wrong about my opinions on the pandemic? What if I'm wrong about all of these things? And I realized that it actually softened the level of anxiety I was feeling about. About going into this new uncertain world after 2020.
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A
So let's just. I'm gonna, like. Let me put a slide in there, right? Which is, let's face it, the past five years, things have totally escalated into this really more uncertain world. Now I'm gonna qualify that. Is it really more uncertain?
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B
Well, you know, or maybe it's more obvious.
- [24:48]
A
Just more obvious, perhaps. But I mean, think about it. Think about the uncertainty of the world in the 30s. Think about the uncertainty in the world through, you know, World War I, World War II. Think about the uncertainty through the great financial crisis in 2008. There is just all of this, you know, it always happens. Our ability to build the resilience, to start to look at it and rather than just ruminate about it, is really managing energy. It stops that huge energy leak. It's. And I think it just makes for more communication better. Like, if you start to see the fear or the dis. The uncertainty as opportunity, and you reframe it in that way, you know, as you say, this is where uncertainty actually can prove to be exactly what we need to achieve the goals we're looking to. So you adopt it. You know, you go with the flow, as they say. You can't control what you can't control. And it really is Leaning into that. But you have to have the awareness around it. You have to break it down. I mean, this is, you know, that's why I got onto this topic in the first place.
- [25:51]
B
I know. And what's really funny is that I think about uncertainty a lot of times, or fear or. I don't know if I told you the story, but I think I did. I think I did it on the TEDx stage that we did in Waterloo is that I used to be afraid of flying. And I remember thinking, I'm not afraid of flying, actually, I'm afraid of crashing. So I would get on, I remember my nails would dig into your hand and I'm like, it's a lack of control, which is also about uncertainty. Right. And then I remember getting on this little tiny airplane. I don't know if it was going from Kamloops to Kelowna or some little prop plane. And it was. The pilot was actually the flight attendant. And there was me and two other people on the plane. And he came to the back and he said, we're going to have some turbulence. It's going to feel really scary. But do any of you. Have you ever sailed? And I'm like, I put out my hand, I go, yeah, I've been sailed. And, you know, I was at the foot of Montserrat while it erupted as a volcano and it was 14 foot swells and. And he said, think of turbulence like the waves on the ocean. And I was like, oh. So as we were flying and I, and, and he's flying at the top, there's no flight attendant and we're like going up and down and up and down and my stomach's like losing it. But I wasn't afraid because what I did was I dropped into my body and I became comfortable. Like I was on the boat when we were in the Caribbean at, at the foot of Montserrat volcano. So when I think of fear or grief, I think of it now like waves, or I think of uncertainty as waves. Like, I can't, I'm not a very good, you know. You know, you can't stop it. The waves are going to keep coming. But I can learn to surf. I can learn to manage my expectations and manage my energy. And from that moment on, I was no longer afraid of flying because I was able to link it to something that I could control, which was my response to the energetic waves. And to me now as I fly and if I'm in turbulence, I just think of myself as surfing, not that I can surf.
- [27:59]
A
No, you can't but you can go with it. Okay. So as we kind of wind this whole episode down, you know, we get to the conclusion that, you know, uncertainty is the one thing that we can be certain about, and so we can embrace that uncertainty. The other thing that is proven by data is that when you know the outcome, the uncertainty you can live with, generally, it's like, I don't know what this is going to look like. I just know where we're going to end up, and we're okay often with that. So, you know, so we can surf through that until.
- [28:31]
B
Because we know where we're going, we.
- [28:33]
A
Know where we're going, there's something at least you can connect to and connect the dots with, which adds a level of certainty. But it is really a mind shift. It is mind shui in terms of clearing the clutter of your brain, being aware of what's happening, knowing that. And there's another side to this too, right? When we look at what's happening with uncertainty, a lot of it is driven by ego. Now, I'm not saying it all is you could be fearful of some physical harm or something happening. There could be that. But often a lot of the anxiety and worry that people live into, especially around vocation in terms of careers and jobs, is certainly things that, that they're basing on what they think other people are thinking about them. And so it's only to say that when we look at the anxiety that we may be going through, the worry that we're going through, we have to really break it down and that's the way to collapse it. That's the whole point. I mean, we can talk about it. You know, uncertainty is certain, we know that. But how do we kind of live with it? How do we improve on it? How do we just change our operating system so that when things unfold the way they unfold, we react in a healthier way, a more calm way, more powerful way, and lean into the uncertainty as opportunity, as knowing and being confident that this is unfolding the way it needs to unfold, full stop. And if you can convince yourself of that, if you can really understand and reflect on your life, I think you're going to find most often that's what's going on. And, and consider this. Think about. And I, I say this, think about all the stories of people. I mean, within the Everyday Millionaire podcast, there isn't a guest that I don't talk to, I think, that hasn't gone through some shitstorm like Brutal on a regular basis, by the way. I just had this conversation with a guest yesterday, and they, in reflection, come back and go, best thing that happened, it had to happen that way. But when we're in it and when we're going through it, we cannot see it. And so sometimes it's just trusting that in fact, it's going exactly the way it needs to go, 100%.
- [30:47]
B
I think part of, you know, just to your point, is that some of the biggest growth and the biggest gifts we've had in our relationship and our businesses have happened right after the biggest shitstorm. And had. We believed the shitstorm was the end and we didn't see there was some sort of thread. I think it's called terror management theory, actually. We're like, I think it's gotta end. But ultimately, we know that we're committed to a direction, we're committed to an outcome, and ultimately that things will fade away. You know, it's like this, too. As my mom said, this too people say, this too shall pass. Mom said always, this too shall prepare me. Right? So I don't know what's going to happen. The uncertainty is, to me, really kind of a blank whiteboard. I look at the ice or the arena as a blank slate a lot of times. And what are we writing out there? And how do I connect the athletes and the people to their uncertain future with the certainty in who they are and who they're becoming and their values? I mean, seriously, like, we have to build our tolerance for uncertainty. It's like, what do you go to the gym for? You go to the gym because you want to lift weights and you're hanging now to, you know, increase your height or whatever, to stretch out yourself.
- [32:06]
A
Okay. I have a compressed disc, if you recall, sweetheart, that I've been dealing with for five years. I'm trying to uncompress my disc.
- [32:14]
B
But anyway, create what makes sense for you. Because we can't control the future. We can't see into the future. Our past, our future is only a reflection of our present. And honestly, when we honor our present and we give ourselves the grace and the confidence that we trust ourselves and we know our values, and then we take the breath and we take the wave and the hit, then maybe we can surf through a little bit and show up and let the uncertainty. Because you know what? The moment's gone. The moment's gone. Moment's gone. Moment's gone. So why are we so afraid of an uncertain future?
- [32:58]
A
Good question. I think we've covered as much as I can cover. I'm uncertain what to do and how to finish this podcast episode. How's that?
- [33:07]
B
I'm not uncertain. I know what I'm gonna say. Ready?
- [33:11]
A
Okay.
- [33:11]
B
That was fun.
- [33:13]
A
Thanks, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends, as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions, or questions you'd like answered, please email me@ceoraincanada.com and that's CEO.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time, Patrick goes.