B (4:22)

No, I think you need to maybe for me, I like the overview, the big picture, and then we can drill down on each one.

A (4:28)

Okay. What we've come to learn and this research shows, and Chloe, yes, is a psychologist who's done a lot of research on it, but what they've come to realize is that we have six basic needs or six needs. And those needs aren't in any given priority. And they're basically depending on where we are in our life and what we got going on. One may dominate others and one may really dominate all others, or they just go into a different priority. But those fundamental needs are significance, connection, growth and contribution, as well as certainty. And on top of certainty is variety. Isn't that interesting? So when we look at these, these are the actual six kind of fundamental needs. And what you often have circled back to talk about is what we call the very, very basic needs, which is.

B (5:25)

Food, shelter, sex, which is Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So back in the day, when I was studying psychology, we were studying Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. And the most basic needs are food, shelter, sex. I mean, I probably put sex in a different place, but, you know, that's my need. But food, shelter, sex, okay, so we.

A (5:47)

Want to evolve beyond that, you know, as.

B (5:49)

Exactly.

A (5:51)

So as leaders, know thyself and that will help, you know, others. So let's just kind of go through these six and continue to give context for it. So when we look at the need of certainty, and I think many can relate to this, so I think we all have a need for certainty at different levels. You know, certainly certainty means safety, stability, predictability in our lives, you know, security financially, for example. And we want to feel secure in our jobs, in our homes and, and even in our relationships. So we want to avoid pain. I mean, that's certainly one of the things that we try and avoid always is pain. And we actually end up wanting assurances that our basic needs are going to be met. So food, shelter, for example. And what we see with individuals is that some people really pursue this need. You can see it as a big priority. It doesn't show up for certainty in the word certainty. What we often see is the people who are striving for control. What we label people as having this tend to want to control all aspects of their lives, their jobs, the projects that they work on, the people that work for them or that are working around them. They want to be really certain that things are going to work the way they wanted them and that the way they have it planned and that the people are going to do as they're expected. For example, completing things on time, hitting the deadlines. And that all seems pretty reasonable, doesn't it? But as we know, some people get really kind of into the control of things, right to the point that they'll lose some of their. What's the word? I would say they would lose their mind.

B (7:31)

Creativity.

A (7:32)

Well, sure, but they, they start to panic. They even get stressed when things are not going their way, that it's not that they need to control in that regard, it's that they're looking for certainty. And then there's the other side of that we'll talk about in a minute. And that is, you know, if you don't have that certainty, you actually get demotivated and you need variety. But we'll talk about that next. So when you look at certainty or when you break it down and you have conversations with your clients, what shows up for you around having certainty?

B (8:01)

It's such a great conversation. Certainty is a base human need. It's no different Than, you know, food, shelter, sex. We want certain. We want to know what's going to happen. And I think in the last three years, four years, what we've discovered is that there is no certainty. There is no certainty. But what I was always telling my clients is that when I was guiding them on a journey to achieve their goals, is that sometimes they would doubt themselves. But if they were staying true to themselves, true to their values, I would always say to them, my certainty can squish your doubt. You just need to stay true to what you said you wanted and on the journey that you're going on and the direction and the trajectory that you're on. And then your doubts come on. I can squish them in a moment because we question ourselves. We look back and we go, this isn't going to work. And we've got all this information and proof that this isn't going to work. So I'm now in uncertainty, which is fine. Uncertainty is important because what it does is it makes us check in on what. What we want, what we're doing. Do we have enough information? Do we have the data, et cetera. But when I say my certainty can squish your doubt, what that means is that I'm going to bring you back to what you say you want in a powerful and quiet and important way.

A (9:22)

Love it. Okay, the next on the list, the things that we have to look at, is kind of a. I don't want to say it's the opposite of certainty, because it's not, but it is different. And that is that people want variety. So it's another fundamental human need, and it kind of opposes the certainty part of it. And we look at it, and we sometimes really like a variety and uncertainty, you know, as you and I have talked about in the past, is that, you know, as entrepreneurs, business owners, over the years, as much as we kind of like certainty, we just live in a real uncertain world often because we don't know where things are going to come at us or how they're going to come at us. So I think as an entrepreneur, we're often living in a world of uncertainty, and that becomes normal. So I don't even know what certainty is in that context, but what I do know is that we do live in a world where we have a lot of variety, a lot of variety in what we do, who we meet with. So we need variety. And that's something that you and I really enjoy, and we kind of crave that variety. As much as we like to get into some Just routine and have that thing going on. We also take on lots of projects. And, you know, when you're looking at some managers, for example, and careers, they're really good at change management because they're just really good looking at that variety. So the uncertainty for many is just really uncomfortable. But for others, it's like, no, that's what I need. I need to mix it up. I need variety. I need to change or I'm going to get bored. I'm going to be demotivated instead of motivated. And so there's a balance that people like to have, which is lots of variety, lots of changes, lots of things coming at them where they have to read, react, move, think on their feet. That really lights some people up, whereas others are going, no, this is too chaotic. It feels uncertain. And again, that word chaos shows up. It's a little bit like conflict when you're living in a world of variety and you've got all these things coming at you. For those who are not used to it, it feels chaotic. It feels like there's a lot of conflict and that there's always some crisis that you're dealing with. So what's your thoughts on variety? And, you know, kind of where you see it with your own clients, with your athletes, for example? I never, you know, one of just cheer athletes. I mean, they're doing the same program over and over and over again, right down to the kind of the nth degree, if you will. How does the variety fit in for them?

B (11:49)

Yeah, that's a really good point. But if we use the word uncertainty and we connect it to variety, for example, is that we create an intention for each run or each run through or each competition is that there's still a growth that lives in uncertainty. And when you link uncertainty. Hey, everyone, my name is Lena, and I can't wait to introduce you to a new podcast called Financial Therapy, Minding youg Money. As an mba, certified Financial Planning professional, small business coach, and investor, I help to start a movement where we can get real people talking about personal finance in a different and more empowering way. Check wherever you listen to your podcast to find new episodes each week. And we love hearing from you, so please call or text your feedback and questions for the show. I'll be back next week with another episode. And certainty, I call that the Champions Paradox is that both need to exist at the same time or we can't break through our fixed mindset. And they're connected on so many different levels. So when you think of certainty, you know what you need to do, you know, you need to commit to, you know, what you need to do to grow, to get in shape, to achieve your goals, etc, and then I will say leave room for the magic. And that's where the uncertainty lives. Because you don't know what's going to happen in the judging realm, or you don't know what's going to happen politically, or don't know what's going to happen. But if you leave room for it, then you won't be so damaged or, or, or disappointed maybe when something doesn't go your way. So the certainty and the uncertainty live in the paradox. And that's what I coach is that honestly, we need both. We need both. If we don't have both certainty and uncertainty as human beings, we don't grow.

A (13:39)

Okay, cool. Okay. Number three on the list of what, what we need is significance. Now, this one is. We've talked about it a lot now. I've had a little bit of a shift around it. When I had Alan Kahn on the podcast and him and I talked about significance as a need. And when I said significance to him, it meant something different to him. And it was really interesting in that conversation. But in this context, let's talk about what significance is, which is that really kind of at deep down we all need to feel important and unique, perhaps, or special, and we want to live our life and we want our work to have meaning. Now, I know this for me is really important. Like, if my work doesn't have meaning, I'm going, why am I doing this? I run out of gas really, really quickly. I run out of interest. So we want that importance, we want that significance. So, you know, I know for me it's really uncomfortable if I'm working on a project that is, you know, not needed or it's the last of and it's running out of gas anyways. Like, that really shuts me down. So how do we kind of maintain that significance now? Going to go unpack significance just a little bit. And that is that sometimes what we're really looking for in terms of significance is what we want to have appreciation and we want to be acknowledged. And if we are working on something that is important, we're going to get that appreciation when we do a great job, and we're going to be acknowledged for being a contribution. And we're going to talk about that later. But ultimately significance is an important one because it really kind of is what fires people up to say, I've got meaning, what I'm here to do. Is going to make a difference. And that's actually where that significance lives, in the appreciation and the acknowledgement. What's your thoughts?

B (15:29)

Well, what's interesting about significance is that it can also be on the opposite. It can link to ego. And when we want to be significant, we want to. We want to matter in a way, is that we will most times connect to where we're making a difference from a place of ego. And for me, when I look at the hierarchy of needs, etc. As human beings, and we want to be significant, it's. It's where we matter. Do we matter, you know, to our children in. In a place that our grandkids or in our businesses where nobody needs to know what we've done? It's like the pay it forward concept is that I have significance because I bought the person in front of me a Starbucks coffee. You know, they don't need to know that, but that gave me significance. And I think what we have to do as human beings is define what we believe significance is.

A (16:25)

Okay, So I think this, you know, is a good place to just pause and say that, you know, these are, you know, as you're listening to this, what is starting to maybe resonate with you? Like, if you're looking at and assessing yourself, you know, you start to say, well, where are my priorities these days? You know, so we're gonna continue and we're gonna finish these up. But when you look at what we, you know, what we've talked about so far is, you know, considering that, do we need certainty in our life? Is that what's kind of driving us? Is it variety that really, you know, lights us up? Or is it in this case, significance and feeling acknowledged, feeling appreciated? So when you look at the list of priorities, that's really what it is. It's a self assessment. Maybe look at what it is for you. Okay, so the next thing on the list is connection. So when we look at connection, we understand. And this is one that is interesting, I think, for the reason I say it's interesting is that I know for you there's, you know, you're a little more introverted than I am. I'm more extroverted. And that has to do with connection. Because we all, at some level need and we strive for some level of connection. You with me as a significant other and then me with you. But also I like to connect with other people a little bit more than you do. And we want to then be surrounded by people at time or be part of a larger community, you know, that's interesting about the real estate investment network. It is a larger community. People really like that aspect of what the real estate investment network was all about was a community of like minded people. But beyond that, we also want to be loved. We want to be cared for. We want to feel some level of, I don't know if the words closeness or we want to be connected with like minded people, you know, whether it's friends or family, colleagues, whatever that might be. And you know, we have that need for that connection and it's based really on wanting to perhaps belong. So if we're part of a team, for example, we can get really connected. Doesn't matter how big the team is. We know that a smaller team, let's say of three, five people, is generally more connected than a larger team. But that's not always the case. The point is, is we want that feeling of connection. It's a need. And so know thyself. As I said, you know, I kind of said, you know, you look at your kind of introverted tendency or being introverted, you have that tendency more than I do. What's your thoughts on connection?

B (19:00)

I think connection for me when I'm working through, you know, the needs, the, the, the base needs of being human is the connection starts with myself. And what I've learned about myself is that I need to connect to myself through meditation, through journaling, through knowing what I want to be seen as, I want to be expressed as. I don't have a whole lot of need to be acknowledged from the outside. I don't need a lot of acknowledgement or friends or I don't need to be on tv, you know, I don't have that, you know, that need in from a significance or connection standpoint. What I do notice with a lot of people that are more like me, that are more ambivert or introvert is that they need to find their way to be in integrity and connected with themselves. I don't know if that's, you know, what you're, where you're going with this, but I know a lot of people and have many friends that are very extroverted, which I love. And there's so much fun and it's loud and music and dancing and you know, external motivation and things coming in from the outside. I don't have that need. So it's really important for me as an introvert or an ambivert to stretch myself. And what I love about you is that you're more extroverted. You bring people into our life, which is Amazing. And you bring people and you have conversations and you talk and, and you. And you spark my. My intellect in, in ways that are. It's super fun because I could sit. Sit with a book and a meditation and light a candle and have a bath and be totally content. But I don't think that would move our life forward.

A (20:45)

Well, you know, there's a part of it too, what something that, you know, you said kind of spurred a thought. And when we talk about connection and connection with other people, that's also where significance lives. Like you said, you don't have a strong need to be famous or be on tv, and you've done all of those things. But, you know, there's a part of it too, where if we're not making a difference, it's like this podcast. When we get to a place or when we. If we were to get some sense that we weren't making a difference with the podcast, we would just shut it down. I mean, there's nothing in it for us other than the fact that we love to be contribution. We love to make connection with people. Of course, we love to be coaches and have our coaching programs. And this kind of is a way to get. For people to get to know us and have that connection before they become part of a program. But it really is interesting to know that connection and significance, they kind of go together. I just. That's in my brain right now. That's what I got to. Anyways, we can carry on. Anything else you want to talk about connection?

B (21:48)

I get what you're saying, that connection, significance are connected, but I don't really think they are. Connection is about other. Significance is about self. And I just want to make sure there's a distinction there. And when people are listening, it's like what, what drives you? Like when I think about our ship clients, for example, like when we can help people get to what drives them and they are not embarrassed anymore about what drives them. I remember a client years ago who understood that, you know, she thought family was her highest value yet she was traveling around the world, you know, being a massive contribution in other areas in business. But when she told the truth and she said, you know what? Business and significance is my highest value, everything softened and it actually became true because then her family, her husband and her daughter actually went, oh, my God, now you're telling the truth. Love it. Now we can support you, you can support us in a different way. But it's where we don't tell the truth about what drives us.

A (22:48)

That's a Good one. Okay, good point. Carry on. Number five on this list is growth. Now, of course, in the world of, you know, just being human beings, we have to. I don't want to say we all have to. I think it's important that we grow. And whether that's. We start to see ourselves grow, I don't know, financially, we start to see ourselves get smarter, we get promoted in a job. That's where we start to see growth. So whether it's personal or professional growth, you know, we set goals and then we achieve those goals. That feels like growth. We set targets for ourselves, saying we want to reach a certain level by such and such a time. We can measure our growth in that way. So it's part of, I guess what we would. Will drive. Most people is striving for something we want an outcome. We're working backwards from something. Now we say that. And I'm assuming that anybody listening to the podcast has some inclination to have growth, otherwise they wouldn't be listening to this kind of a podcast. But certainly we know and have seen people over the years that growth is not their thing, like status quo. If they can just maintain the status quo, they're very, very happy with it. Whereas when we talk and we look at what we're trying to do, we're always trying to grow mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, financially, intellectually. We look at all those seven areas of our life, for example, and we go, we want to grow in all seven areas of our life. And at any given time, one particular area may be a primary focus. But, gosh, I don't know. I've just built for always looking at where there's growth. But I know that isn't the case for everybody. What's your thoughts?

B (24:32)

It's not leaps and bounds. That's really what I heard when you were talking, is that I think people, when they hear the word growth, they have to go leaps and bounds and change and, you know, go into the next thing. And it's not about that. It's about, like when we, when we talk to our shift clients, for example, it's like, what's the smallest shift you can make to get the biggest result? And a lot of times it's a mental shift. It's a. It's a decision or it's something that how do you move forward and still maintain this, you know, your life and your values and your family and the things that you want, but still get more? I think that's the thing is that. That there's a. There's a. A Desire for more. And when we realize that there's not a lot of more out there without the shift of mindset, then the more becomes unattainable. And what I would love to be able to share even tonight is that the, the shift that it takes to, for me, and I know for us as a couple is what we've had to do over the last 30 some years is that tell the truth. And when we have to tell the truth and understand that our relationship. Okay, my relationship with you is I'm 100% all in. You're 100% all in. There's no 50, 50, you know, in this. Like, I'm a hundred percent all in. And I want to be the best wife I can be, and I know you want to be the best partner and husband you can be, and we go in it at that level. So from a. From a contribution, from a significant standpoint, it kind of hits all of my buttons.

A (26:17)

So something that showed up for me as you were speaking was, you know, when we look at growth and understand that we have a tendency to keep looking into the future, so we're not seeing growth. All we're seeing is, you know, when we talk about gap and gain, for example, if we keep looking into the future, all we ever see is the gap where we're not yet there. And, you know, to look at growth, to appreciate how much we've grown, we actually have to look back. We have to reflect on where we were and where we are today. So, you know, let's say you look back six months, look back a year, look back three or five years, and you start to understand that how far you've come over that period of time, the gains that you've had and the growth of that you've had. The point that I'm trying to make in this or I want to make in all of this is that growth to your earlier point is not leaps and bounds. It really is shifting the trajectory slightly. Again, hit a golf ball out 1 millimeter at the tee, it's in the far Fairway, you know, 300 yards out because of the trajectory. So when we set the trajectory, we want to set the trajectory the right way to achieve, to have that growth and continue to make those settings along the way, adjust the trajectory along the way so that we have the outcome that we're looking for. But the point of it is, is that growth isn't about leaps and bounds. And when you can have a leaps and bound growth, it's kind of cool, pretty rare. But we have to really honor the growth by looking and kind of saying, what have I gained over the past year? Six months, three years? And then you start to realize just how much growth you've had. Probably sometimes not even as intentional as you may have thought it needed to be. Anything you want to add to that? That's just a random kind of thought on that.

B (28:01)

I do. I do. I want to share a personal story. Like tonight, the girls took me out for my birthday. So Char Friesen, Janine Ferreira, Nina Greshner. And I look at where we've been for the last year, how much we've grown, how much we've had to shift and grow and fight and, you know, demand clarity from each other. And I think that's where. What we really acknowledge tonight, and they took me to a winery, by the way, that's why I'm drinking wine, is that we have the moments to acknowledge how far we've come. And until we look to the past, it's very difficult to know how far we've come. So tonight, what we did is that we took a moment and just each one of us said, you know, here's what I've learned in the last year. Like, don't forget was my milestone birthday last year. Like, it's a year later. And tonight we were at the winery and we made a commitment and said, okay, what have you learned? How far have we come, you know, as a team? Because we all work together on different aspects. But the. The coolest thing is, is that how much fun it's been. And that's the piece that I don't want to step over, is that this growth and this energy and this sometimes pain can be really fun. And I think if we honor the past and bring us forward to the present and look to the future, can you imagine how much fun it's going to be going forward? And thanks for tolerating me on my birthday and me drinking wine and the girls take me to a winery and the. And the dogs barking and all the stuff that we do on this podcast, hunting. I just need to take a moment to acknowledge how far we've come. It's almost 100 podcasts that we've done, so almost two years.

A (30:02)

Almost.

B (30:03)

Almost. And maybe we'll, I don't know, acknowledge those significant milestones. But right now, for me, I just want to say thank you.

A (30:12)

Okay. That's awesome. Finally, sixth, we need to be a contribution, which is what you really just talked about. And ultimately where, you know, tonight you, you know, celebrating a birthday, reflecting with friends, and really it is a contribution that you are to each other, but that is a fundamental need, and it's a desire that we want to be able to make a difference and contribute to the greater good, whatever that might be, within our community, our jobs, our businesses, and where are we being a contribution? And ultimately, for most, it is a human need. So if you're feeling depressed, if you're feeling, like, bummed out or you're not making a difference, and you have to ask yourself perhaps, where can you make a contribution for those of you who are really clear on that as what you need for what lights you up to gain that significance, to have that connection? Really, when you look at it, you know, being a contribution is a really big part. And understanding that that's often what drives people, again, could be community, could be your family, society in general, the projects you're working on, but being a contribution is a really big one. I think that everybody, at some level, needs to be that contribution. Now I'm going back. Chloe Matinee, the psychologist, is. You know, they want. We want not only to be a contribution, but we want some lasting satisfaction with it. We want that sense of fulfillment that comes with being a contribution. And that's really where connection, growth, contribution all come into play. They kind of come together, if you will, to be a contribution. So when we talk about this podcast, when we talk about the coaching we do, it really is trying to be a contribution and find the best way to be a contribution. Anything you want to add to that?

B (32:08)

Oh, my gosh, thank you for that because that is really what drives me and drives us as a couple. And. But what's hilarious about that is that it's unrestricted. It's. There's nothing attached to it. And I think that's really rare. And that's what I got tonight, you know, with the girls, you know, at the winery, is that, you know, our contribution and our giving doesn't have hooks. And when maybe I, you know, I want to talk to our previous SHIFT clients and mindset matters, clients and stuff, is that I really hope that you feel that our contribution doesn't have hooks. And what.

A (32:47)

That.

B (32:48)

What I mean by that, it. That it doesn't have expectation is that we are doing this work right now because it's our contribution. It's where. It's who we are. And yes. Do we want people to sign up for SHIFT and. And to come and hang out and build a community and all that stuff? Absolutely. But what I really got tonight and what I was given as a gift is that my generosity and our generosity and what we do as a couple and as we're doing as business is that, you know, we don't have a hidden agenda. And that actually almost made me cry because I think in many worlds it's always about marketing and hidden agendas and this and that and what I was given tonight, and that was a contribution to me. And that's the other thing, is that you have to also see where the contribution is given to you. And that's what the message to me was, is that our, what we give and, and how we're setting up our life. And don't get me wrong, we, we need to make money and we need to do all that stuff, but it's the intention behind it. And I was so grateful for that message.

A (34:02)

Fantastic. So for those of you listening, if you're still here, if you're still listening, consider where you are in these particular six needs. Are you even aware that you have those needs? And it's kind of interesting when we take a few minutes to kind of break it down and reflect on what lights us up. Where do we kind of move forward or get energized, if you will. And mostly we get energized when our needs are in fact being met. So again, give yourself some time to think about certainty, variety, significance, connection, growth, contribution. What is it for you that kind of lights you up? Pick a couple of them, focus on that. Is that a bucket that you can fill? Maybe the bucket around certainty is feeling a little empty if you think about it. So take a look at those areas and these human needs and see what works for you. I think that pretty much covers it. Quick reminder to everybody, we are doing a work session. A working session. We call a working session on September the sixth, 5pm Pacific Time, 6 Mountain Time, 8pm Eastern Time. This is a working session. It's a 90 minute free opportunity to come put pen to paper for about 90 minutes. We're going to put you to work and with Stephanie and I walking you through and we're talking about decision making. So lots to talk about on that topic, but we're gonna do it. So September 6th and Stephanie, I think we covered a lot of ground. Thanks.

B (35:42)

We did. That was fun.

A (35:45)

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share, share with your friends as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email me@ceoaincanada.com that's ceorincanada.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time, Patrick O.