B (2:59)

Well, let me ask you a question then. Patrick, have you ever been in a place in public and there were people around who you didn't know and they didn't know you? And somebody walked in, male or female, and you had never seen them before. Maybe you've never seen them again, but as soon as you saw them, you had a feeling that's somebody. I don't know who it is, but that woman or that man is somebody. I don't know from where, but you can just tell. You ever had that experience?

A (3:23)

Oh, certainly. Many times.

B (3:25)

Absolutely. And what I tell people is that if you take someone who is somebody and they were to walk into a room, if LeBron James walked into the room that you're in, let's say you're at Starbucks and LeBron James walks in, everybody would kind of look. Not because he's famous, not because they know who he is, but because of his energy. We call that presence. There's a certain aura, a certain energy, a certain confidence that radiates from a person when they have presence, that even if you don't know who they are, you feel like you should know who they are. And it's not because LeBron is six, nine, because there are other six, nine guys who will walk in. You will look at them, and subconsciously you will say, nobody but Ron walks in, and you're like, that's somebody. I don't know why, but you can just feel it. There's an energy. Even if they're walking behind you and you didn't even. You didn't even see them, you would turn around like, there's something. Something behind me. You can feel it. Same way that Rabbit knows when that lion's around, even if they can't see the lion. That's what presence is about. And what I do is teach people how to have that presence. And the way they get that presence is through the tangible, logical things that we always talk about, like performance, discipline, strategy, structure, execution. Those things lead to presence when you fuse all of them together. So that's what I help people do.

A (4:35)

So it's more than just the way somebody dresses or just the way somebody carries themselves, although those are things that probably matter in the bigger picture when you look at the collective kind of nuances that somebody might have when it comes to, you know, presence. So beyond that, beyond how they carry themselves, beyond how they dress, I mean, LeBron might be, you know, if you're in a room full of other basketball players, you know, somebody that tall wouldn't stand out. If you're in a regular room, somebody six nine. Whether you're LeBron or not would in fact stand out. And LeBron's probably got an entourage. So you go, that's somebody. Maybe I'm just, you know, ripping off some stuff here, but give me some insights into. Okay, me. You know, I'm 67 years old. I'm six foot one. I'm generally in pretty good shape. I walk in the room, what is it that I'm going to shift or change that says that will have people gravitate towards me going, there's something about this guy's energy that I'm attracted to or how he shows up.

B (5:36)

Sure. So let's address a few things from what you said there. So let's say you may think people would notice LeBron because he's 6 9. I say, well, let's look at somebody like Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan is in his 60s and he's shorter than LeBron and generally smaller than LeBron. But if he walked in a room right now at 60, whatever he is, and 50 pounds heavier than he was when he was the guy, the whole room would stop and everybody be looking at him, even if LeBron was in the room. Why? Because Michael Jordan outranks him when it comes to presence. So presence is not necessarily about your physical stature. For example, do you watch movies? You're a big movie guy.

A (6:10)

Well, I'm not a big movie guy, but I enjoy a good movie when I could find him.

B (6:13)

Okay, is you familiar with the actor Joe Pesci?

A (6:16)

Oh, of course.

B (6:17)

Okay, so he played Tommy DeVito in Goodfellas. All right, so imagine Tommy DeVito from Goodfellows and Joe Pesci. I've never met him in person. It looks like he's pretty short right now. Tommy DeVito walking to the room as Tommy DeVito. Everybody would notice that guy. That's. The presence is not necessary because of his size. Even if he walked in by himself and Michael Jordan also by himself. It's not necessarily about the clothes that you wear or you holding your body a certain way, because you can fake that. Presence cannot be faked. There's a reason why Michael Jordan at 60something and walk in and still have presence, because Michael Jordan still knows that he's Michael Jordan. It's an internal thing that radiates outwardly that is felt unconsciously by everyone around you. But it's not something you can pretend to have. You can't pretend to have presence. You either have it or you don't. And where that comes from is all the stuff that you've done. What I call doing your homework. Before you walk into that Starbucks, before you walk into a networking event. It's the discipline of doing your job every day. It's having your stuff together, whatever that may be. It's having the confidence that comes from discipline. It's knowing that anything that happens, you'll know how to deal with it. You'll know how to take care of that situation. Like a CEO walking into a board meeting. Those things are all things you've done before. And when they're all fused together, you carry yourself with a certain spirit that you don't tell people that you have it, but people can tell that you have it, and it causes them to respond to you in a certain way. It's a way that this definitely happens with men. Patrick, have you ever been somewhere, you saw a man walking through the space, and it seemed like everybody else just unconsciously got out of his way while he was walking through? Yeah. And. And they don't have to know the guy, and he doesn't have to be some super big bodybuilder. It's because of his energy. People move out of his way. Have you ever seen a woman walk in a space? It's a little bit different with women, but you see a woman walk into space, and everybody turns and looks at the woman. Even the women look at her. Now, if she was pretty, then of course the men are going to look. But a woman can still have the presence, and it's not just because of her looks. Because a lot of pretty girls out there, but there's only a few supermodels. If you know anything about the modeling world, for example, now I'm speaking about it. Being a supermodel is not about being pretty because there's a lot of pretty girls who are. Nobody knows them. They're working at Starbucks. But there are. There are pretty girls who are walking the Runway, and they're famous models. That's not just because they're the prettiest girl. It's because they have an energy that they can snap into. When those lights turn on, when that camera comes on, when they step onto the Runway, that gives everybody else a feeling that allows them to sell that bathing suit or sell that dress or sell those shoes. You get what I'm saying? That's what presence is about. And it's an unspoken language. That one thing, Patrick. Most people don't even understand this unspoken language because they never think about it. Secondly, most people don't have it, but everybody knows when they see it.

A (9:07)

So think, you know, I love this conversation, Dre and I. And I really do get it, but I'm interested. Like, I understand, and we've. I've certainly had that experience myself with people that I've witnessed or seen, and I've had those comments on occasion about how I occur. I'll share kind of a negative story about myself, and then I'd like to kind of build off it. It's a negative story in that it was many years ago. So I speak at a lot of events. I've been doing events for many, many years. And a reoccurring audience, an acquaintance I'll call acquaintance, a regular person within the community in the audience says, you know, Patrick, I've seen you, and I've talked to you many times. But you know something? Whenever I see you, it's like you intimidate the shit out of me. Like. And I don't know what that is, but I know it's not just me. And I went, wow, how is it that I'm occurring that? It would be intimidating? And, you know, I kind of asked him the question a little bit more, and he said, well, it's your facial expressions, and it's just how you carry yourself. And I go, oh, well, it's never my intention. Well, that particular event, by the way, what I did was I took off my suit jacket, I loosened my tie or maybe even took it off, opened up my collar, rolled up my sleeves a little bit, you know, in a dress shirt and slacks, and made an intention of kind of just carrying a little bit of a smile, which is difficult for me. It's not that I'm not happy. It's just that my nature isn't to walk around with a smile on my face, like many do. It changed the game for me, and that was many years ago. And so I'm very conscious about how I occur in that way. So I think that's part of presence that you're talking about. And as I shifted how I occurred, then I started to notice people were more open to approaching me, and it just was more fun overall. So does that speak a little bit to what you're talking about as well, Dre?

B (10:58)

It speaks a ton to what I'm talking about, and it makes me curious. So I got to ask you a question. So how long ago was this?

A (11:05)

Oh, how to be. At least 15 years ago.

B (11:08)

Oh, yeah. At least 15 years ago. So since then, you have. You've kept up with that same approach, kind of loosening up your tie, kind of being a little bit more casual in your Approach and consciously putting a smile on your face in public.

A (11:22)

Totally. I have to consciously smile, even though if I'm in a great mood and I'm happy it's not in my smile. Just doesn't occur.

B (11:31)

Yeah. A lot of men get sometimes accused of that, or even, if you want to call it, criticized with that. So I'm going to tell you what actually happened here. Your friend who told you that you intimidated him before you made the change, what he was communicating. And it's good that he communicated it, because most people have trouble putting this into words, especially men talking to other men, because it puts him in a state of vulnerability to even admit it is he was admitting that your presence created tension in him. It was a tension that your presence created, and he was uncomfortable with that tension. That's why he felt intimidated. It was normal to you, but it was intimidating to him. And he said, he's probably not the only one. He's probably right. And that presence, and this is why I said in my previous point, Patrick, is that men who have presence, since most men don't have it, when you come across other men, they are. They feel stressed, anxious, intimidated, unsure around you because they don't know what it is that you have that they don't have, because they can't explain it. See, it's one thing if you were 6, 10, they can say, oh, he's just tall. There's one thing if you had these flashy clothes, they say, oh, he has a nice suit on, if you have nice shoes or if you have big muscles. Those are things we can see on the surface. But it was an aura and energy that you were radiating that they don't have, because they don't have the fusion of internal elements that you have. And that's why it made them feel uneasy. Now, at least he felt open enough to tell you. Most people who you came across, I'm assuming you had been out in public for at least 20 years before he told you that, Right?

A (13:03)

Sure. A long time. Yeah.

B (13:04)

Right. So you had intimidated thousands of men. They just didn't tell you. All right, so he told you.

A (13:10)

Very thankful that he did share it with me and became very conscious of it. But something you said, Dre, So this is an internal thing now. I think that a lot of presence, and I think you kind of touched on it earlier, was about confidence. And when you consider that, you know, you've done a lot of things in your life, you've accomplished a lot of things, you've been in very, you know, you've been in a lot of different environments. You know, sports and business and boardrooms and all the things that you. So over time, you know, as you go into those circumstances, you kind of get comfortable with it and the next time it shows up. So you gain confidence by going through that process. So presence, I'm hearing you, I think, say, has a lot to do with confidence. Is that. I'll stop there. Is that an accurate statement in what we're talking about?

B (14:03)

Confidence is a part of it. It's not the whole thing, but it's definitely a part of it. You don't have confidence. You can't have presence, because presence is just like. Confidence is an outwardly pushed energy. Confidence is energy that you project outwardly when you're self conscious, which is the opposite. You're only thinking about yourself because you're worried about how everybody else is perceiving you. When you're confident, your energy projects outward. And you know the saying about energy. You get the energy back that you put out. But if you're self conscious, where's all your energy going? It's going to you. So you get no energy from the outside world. But when you're confident, you project your energy outwardly because you know that this is good, this person is good. If those who listen to audio, I'm just gesturing towards myself, you are good. So you are able to project your energy out to everyone else. And because you do that, everybody else who is much more self conscious, they feel comfortable around you because they see that you're not self conscious. So they're attracted to that energy that they don't have. So, yes, confidence is a part of it, but it's only a piece of the equation.

A (15:02)

Okay, so if you're, if you're coaching me and I'm coming to you going, what am I? What am I? What is the problem? I'm coming to Dre with and saying, dre, I have this thing, this lack of thing. What am I coming to you and asking you that you're going to coach me around? How do I know I don't have presence?

B (15:20)

Well, if a man is questioning anything around his discipline, around his mental toughness, around his confidence, around his consistency, around his habits, around. Around his structure, around his system. You don't have all of those things. You don't have presence. When you have all of them, you have it.

A (15:33)

Got it.

B (15:34)

So you had it, Patrick, back when your friend was bringing up to. You still have it now. You decided consciously that you were going to ease the tension by putting a smile on your face. You see, when people see a smile on your face, it eases the tension. When you have a poker face, you weren't frowning at them. You weren't, as we say, mean mugging. You weren't looking at them like you want to fight. You just had a blank face. You weren't giving them anything. It was neutral. And when people who don't have a lot of confidence see neutrality, again, they're self conscious. They're worrying about, what does that mean to me? What does that mean about me? Has nothing to do with them. But when you're self conscious, you think everything's about you. You see what I'm saying?

A (16:13)

Yeah.

B (16:13)

And when you have presence, you're not concerned with what everybody else is thinking because you know that this person is in good. A good space. Anything that could or might happen, you know, you'll be able to handle it. You may not be able to predict it, but you know you can handle it. So it causes tension in other people, but that tension is actually beneficial depending on how you want to use it and depending on what you're doing. So one thing it does, it keeps everybody on their toes. It keeps everybody having to be on point. So I'll give you an example. Actually, let me continue answering your question. I'll come back to the example later. You said, what would somebody be looking for? So I'll tell you about example. Some of my coaching clients, these are male and female that I have. Men come to me, they're already earning six healthy six figures a year, mid upper six figures a year. But they say, dre, I'm just not as disciplined as I want to be, or my confidence is not at the level that it used to be, or I know I need to get more organized in my life, or I'm dedicating so much time to my work. That's why I'm making more and more money. But I'm letting my body go because I'm not going to the gym, because I'm waking up early, staying late at the office, or my marriage is in trouble because I'm not spending enough time with my wife. Or my kids are growing up and one just went off to college, another one is in middle school. And I don't want the same thing to happen with this kid that happened with the last one, that they're gone and they barely know me. And they're looking to get all that stuff in order. And when you have again, all that stuff in order in your own mind, that creates an aura and energy that Other people want to follow. But when something is off, it creates a funny energy that repels people rather than attracts them. See, when you have presence, you attract people. An energy of presence makes people want to be around you, meaning they'll just, you'll be walking around, people will just be watching you for no reason. They're not watching anything. They're just watching you because they can't stop looking at you, saying they can't take their eyes off that person. That's presence. But when something is off, yet you still are, let's say, up there in accomplishment, your energy is repelling people. So you should be attracting when you have presence and authority, when you have command. But if something's off, then it starts to repel and you even repel yourself. That's how a lot of these people end up talking to me. Does that answer your question?

A (18:25)

Yes. This to me is a really interesting topic because over the years, again, and I'm sure that you've faced the same thing, you know, as a front facing. You're, you've got a public Persona, you've got a, you know, you're, you're interacting with large crowds, small crowds. You know, you are a leader in the context of your business and with your clients and perhaps with events that you speak at. So when you start to think about those individuals or someone like myself, if I'm going, okay, I want to examine, I want to know, how do I self assess? You know, how do I self assess? Because part of what you described, I get all of that. But how do I know my gap is how I'm occurring? How, how do I know that the presence is even a gap for me? You know, like I'm looking at it. So if somebody's in the room and I've had these conversations with people over the years and if, if, you know, people aren't talking to me and I'm talking to them, or individuals have an awareness of their presence. So again, I don't quite what the question is I'm trying to ask is that how do you know if you've got that gap? Let me put it, let me try that.

B (19:41)

How do you know if your presence isn't all the way, let's say at its best level?

A (19:47)

Yeah, because I don't know if how many people actually, prior to this conversation, I don't know, I was very aware of energy and how I occur. I didn't frame it as presence. My wife is a world in Olympic class mental performance coach. She's dealing with very competitive athletes. She's on stages. She's doing a lot of things. She has an interesting presence, but I don't think we've ever framed it that way, Dre. So we've maybe framed it. How do you show up energetically? And are people attracted to that energy, or are they avoiding that energy? Maybe that's the shift of languaging only. But I'm thinking about individuals who are aspiring to do more, be more, achieve more, maybe get into the world of public speaking, get into the world of being great networkers, attracting capital, attracting business partners, whatever that might be. This would be an interesting conversation to. Would we ask them the question, what is your presence? Are you aware of your presence? How do we enter the conversation for somebody? How do they know? It's a gap.

B (20:57)

That's a great question. I need to make a field manual, field test manual for presence so that people can kind of test themselves. I'm glad you're asking this question. I might actually do it. So the thing is, with what you said your wife does and the things that. The way she languages, it. It's the same thing. All right. Presence just is a simple. This is a simpler term that I use, but it's the same thing that she's talking about. And I'm sure she can tell you some of the top athletes she's worked with. You can feel it before the competition starts. They're going to win. You just know, because they have a certain energy. And it's the same thing with a public speaker, same thing with a political candidate. It's the same thing with a CEO walking into a business. You just know. You can feel it, even if you don't know who the person is. I took my son to the zoo a few days ago, Patrick. And if you didn't know what a lion was, but you saw a lion, you would know, right? Immediately. You get what I'm saying? Because you can feel the energy of the lion. Because what's the first thing the lion is going to do when it sees you? If it was in the wild, it's different at the zoo because the lion knows it can't get you. But let's just say you were in the wild and you saw a lion. First thing the lion is going to do is it's first going to stop its movement. It's going to look right at you. It's going to square up to you, and it's going to watch you. And you can feel the tension in that look between you and the lion. Because you know what the lion, without even Knowing what a lion is. You know what a lion is capable of. You can tell by its body language what it's capable of. Give you another example, a human example. Just last week, I was talking to a guy who used to be a police officer. And you ever see a police officer out, a uniformed police officer? If you're talking to a cop, let's say two police officers having a conversation, you interrupt, you say, excuse me, officers, what's the first thing the cop's going to do between.

A (22:34)

If somebody comes up to you.

B (22:36)

No, if two police officers are talking to each other and you interrupt the conversation, that. Excuse me, officer, what's the first thing they're both going to do?

A (22:44)

Well, they're probably going to ask how they can help me. I don't. I don't know. I don't talk.

B (22:48)

If you think about it, I don't talk to them no much either. But if you think about it, you'll. You'll know that this is true. First thing they're going to do is stop their conversation. They're both going to look directly at you, and they're both going to turn their bodies and square up to you so that their chest is facing.

A (23:01)

Yes, they are. Yes.

B (23:01)

Right. They're going to turn their feet to you. They're going to turn their chest to you. And now they're both looking directly at you. They're both going to have open stances, their hands are free, and they're looking right at you. And now at that point, the conversation shifts. The energy of the conversation shifts at that point because they have just stepped into this role that. And I was talking to this guy, and I mentioned it, because here's the question he asked me. He said, dre, what's the first thing a person can do if they want to be more confident within the next 15 seconds? And I said, stand up straight, put your shoulders back, put your chest out, your head up, your eyes up, put your phone away, and make direct eye contact with people. And I said, you used to be a cop. Don't they teach you all this? Because I noticed all cops do it. You talk to a cop, they immediately do this. You never see a police officer slumping. Never see a police officer with a wrinkled uniform. You never see a cop looking down at their phone. Never. Not when they're actively working. And he's. There's a word for it. It's called command presence. They actually train this on. They train police officers on command presence. And I went and looked into this. Command presence is designed so that an officer kind of has authority in a situation. Not kind of, but does has authority in the situation. Even if they haven't said anything yet or done anything yet, people are more likely to comply and behave just because of the energy of the officer in the room. It's the reason why high end stores put police officers in there. Not because somebody's going to grab something and run. I don't know if the cop can catch them with all that stuff they have on. But the presence of the cop causes people to behave a different way than if there wasn't one there. Does that make sense? Yeah, 100% is the same thing. The concept of. I'm sure you heard of the lion in the room. There was a lion in the room where you are right now. Even if you were doing other things, you would never lose sight of that lion. You would always pay attention. Even if the lion is just laying there sleeping, you would never ignore the lion because you know what a lion is capable of. That's presence and that's tension. That tension is what gives the lion presence. Now, the thing is, going back to your story that you gave earlier, Patrick, as soon as you do things to relieve the tension, your presence goes down. And while it may feel more amicable and people feel more at ease around you, that's fine. There's a trade off to it. But the trade off is you gave up a little bit of presence so that these people who don't have presence can feel more comfortable.

A (25:11)

I love this conversation, by the way. I think it's so great. You know, there's, it is interesting. So in some of the speaking that I'm doing, you know, with business owners, investors, real estate investors, I often talk about ethos and I ask people, what is your ethos? And I use the, you know, you know, my. Basically the premise of ethos is it's a statement of character of an individual or an organization. Who are you now? I turned ethos into an acronym and I turned the E into energy, the T into trust. So in other words, I go through the acronym of ethos, you know, energy, trust, ownership, in terms of extreme ownership and sharing. So in other words, you know, are you open to sharing? So there was an acronym. So there's a short presentation I do around ethos, which is to say, are you, are you aware of how you occur, how you show up? You know, even on the word trust, you know, I use the context of four dimensions of trust, but energy, because we've all had the experience where there are people who walk in A room, and they just suck the energy out of a room. And there's those individuals that walk into a room, and immediately the energy is brought up. It's brought up through their words, their actions, how they occur, their body language, all of you know. So in that context, am I on track with what you're talking about in terms of presence? Dre? Like, is this something that when you're training, you're saying you're being very intentional. You're, like, sharing or coaching people how to develop that presence so that when they walk into a room, it's how they show up, and it's a predisposition or it's a thought process. It's a discipline. Am I. Am I hitting on any of what you're kind of trying to describe here?

B (26:57)

It's bigger than all three of those things. Predisposition, thought process, and discipline. It's a being. It's a way of being. It's who you are as a person. So when you are disciplined, being disciplined is a way of being. It's a way of living. It's not something that you do your thought process. 85% of our thoughts are subconscious. So it's what we put into our subconscious mind that is really our thought process, not the things we're telling ourselves to think about. And it's not an activity. It's not something that you turn on and off. You either have it or you don't when it comes to presence. So there's a couple things you said there. You said there are some people who walk in, they suck the energy out of the room. That's not the person who's a nobody, because the nobody carries no energy. So they can't pull energy because they don't have any. It's the person who has status but no presence. They suck the energy out of the room because their presence in the room matters. But their energy does not give energy to others, so they take the energy away. That's the person who's off balance, the leader who's not in the right space. They can destroy the whole company because they don't have the right presence. Those are the CEOs who falter and get fired. Then you have the people who add energy to the room just by being in the room. Again, they don't even have to do anything. If you think about it, why do you at. For example, I live in Miami, Florida. So at nightclubs down here all the time, you'll see flyers. I don't go to nightclubs, but you'll see flyers. For some celebrity, Kim Kardashian is going to come to the club tonight. Right. And therefore, they can charge more money for the regular person to come to the club than on any other night than when Kim Kardashian is not there. Now, why is that, Patrick? They can charge more money.

A (28:31)

Well, she attracts people. She's a celebrity. People want to be in her presence.

B (28:36)

Exactly. Her presence increases the value of the club that night. So therefore, it makes sense for them to pay her the money that she charges. And everybody else goes to the club. They're not going to meet Kim. They're not going to take a picture with her, not going to talk to her, never shake her hand. She's not going to dance with them. But they will pay more money to go to the club that night just because she's there. Because of the. They call it fission. The vision of being around somebody who is at that level increases the value of the room. This is the reason why you watch sporting events. You'll see famous people sitting in the front row. A lot of times, they don't pay for those tickets. But why do they bring the famous people to the front row? Because if you can show them on tv, it makes everybody else see, oh, damn, all the famous people are at this game. This is the place I need to be. So they give the free ticket to Spike Lee or Kim Kardashian or your favorite actor or actress or some celebrity, whoever, because the free. The money they give away, that $10,000 ticket they gave away to that person is going to make them $50,000 by selling to the regular people. All right, That's. That's how presence works. So another example. I don't know how much you watch. Are you a big basketball fan?

A (29:41)

A little bit. Not a big basketball fan, but enough.

B (29:44)

You know, Michael Jordan is obviously.

A (29:45)

Oh, sure, of course.

B (29:46)

Did you see the documentary five years ago, this Last Dance? The Chicago Bulls?

A (29:50)

100%.

B (29:50)

Okay, so Michael Jordan was a guy with presence. I think we can agree when. Especially when he was playing. And his presence created tension in his teammates. And if you listen to what they said in the documentary, they all said the same thing. This guy showed up in such a way that you felt like you had no choice but to show up as your best. Didn't mean you could be him, but you had to give the best that you had. And if you didn't, you knew you were going to hear about it and you were going to feel it from him. And because he was so good and because he showed up that way, Every single day. Everybody else had to show up that way. And it's not because Michael got up and gave some fiery speech that motivated the team, is because the way he showed up every day motivated others to want to do their best. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, or maybe it was George Washington, that you're a leader when your very presence inspires others to do better, be better and live better. I'm paraphrasing, but that's what makes you a leader. It's not because you told them to do it. See, if you have to tell, if you have to explain it to them, you're not doing it right. When you have presence, other people straighten up as soon as you walk in the room. It's like the CEO of a company walks into a board meeting, he's the last one to walk in the room. Everybody else puts their phone down, straightens up and gets their papers ready because they know that now the show has started because that person walked in a room. It increases the value of the space as soon as that person walks in. And it makes everybody else be the best version of themselves simply because you're around and they don't even have to know you. And people will start doing this just because of your energy.

A (31:16)

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about this. And you know, over the. Oh, and just from a basketball point of view, by the way, I did work with, I did some work and got to know Juwan Howard a little bit just because of some work I did with him years ago. Now there's a guy who has an interesting presence. I mean, Juwan is, you know, arguably, you know, he's not, he's not a Michael Jordan in scope, but he's done some amazing things. And his presence is really, is, is. He's just a great natured guy and he's a competitor. But his presence is very different than let's say a Michael Jordan in my understanding or my view of the world. And so I guess presence is also unique to an individual.

B (31:56)

Fair statement or not, there are different ways of expressing presence. Yes. But when somebody has it, they have it again. A 20 year old female, 80 year old man. They can both have presence even though they do it different ways. Yes.

A (32:08)

Cool. Okay, so let's go back a little bit. Now we get to this conversation because you have a history. So that's, you know, your bio, you know, you played college ball, then you were in the NBA and then you are where you are in the business world. Let's go back a little Bit. And did you, you know, come to the kind of understanding of presence because of your journey to where you got through mba, into where you are today? How did it start to evolve and show up for you? You know, take me back a little bit. When you're playing college ball, you know, you were working your ass off, you're trying to. Were you at that point and did you have a vision for NBA and then discover that you had to show up differently? Give me a little bit of that background.

B (32:53)

Sure. So this whole concept of presence was not something that came to me when I was playing. It was something that I really didn't start thinking about till really about the last five years. I've had it, but I wasn't talking about it until about the last five years. But going back to where you want to originate in playing ball in college, I played at a Division 3 college, which is the third tier of college sports. Most pro athletes come from Division 1. Those are the people you see on TV. And most D3 athletes, again, aren't even thinking about playing pro. You ask most basketball players, everybody says they're going to go play pro, but most of us don't. And I ended up playing internationally for almost 10 years. And when I was playing, one thing I do remember from talking to coaches, all different coaches that I talked to over the years, they would often use some type of term of saying something like, you need to be a presence on the court. I'm not saying they would say that to every player. They would say it to me because I had the, I had game. You can say talent, I had talent in basketball. My coaches could tell, they would say, you need to be a presence. You need to be a presence on the offensive end of the floor. Need to be a presence on the defensive end of the floor. Sometimes coaches would chastise me and say, hey, for stretches of the game you're out there but you're not doing anything. Like you're just on the court like a ghost. You, you kind of are playing in spurts.

A (34:09)

So there's a spurt, you're ticking the boxes, but you're not really getting in.

B (34:14)

At some points, right? So let's say I'm in the game for a 10 minute stretch, right? So for a five minute stretch, I'm doing stuff, I'm grabbing rebounds, I'm scoring, I'm making plays on defense, I might even be missing the shots, but you notice that I'm on the court, then for the next five minutes I'm on the court. But you don't notice because I'm not doing anything. I'm just kind of running up and down the court getting exercise. So the coaches would say to me, you need to be a presence the entire time that you're on the court. Because if you're going to be a star, you can't disappear for five minutes of the game like we can't. Because if you disappear, the team's not going to win. You have to be present. Present and doing something the entire time. It's similar to if you're having a conversation with a person and you're looking this way, but they're over here, and you're responding to them, but you're not really present with them. Right. Because you're not really giving them your full attention. This book by this guy named John Gottman, he talks about relationships, and he says, when your partner's talking to you, he's talking to men. Physically turn your body to your partner when they're talking to you, because it gives more presence and they feel like you're actually listening. That's active listening rather than passive listening. So that's an example of presence. And when it came to playing basketball, it's something that you do. Looking back to something that I definitely noticed playing with different players, so I actually played a little bit with Juwan. I think it was. He was just retired at this point because he played in Miami at the end of his career. He was just retired at this point. So he wasn't the impact guy at that point when he was playing. But there were guys on the court who. They have a presence and energy that you know that there's somebody. Even if I didn't know who they were, I didn't know who they were, but you could tell by how they played, like, this guy's somebody. And again, it applies on the court, it applies off the court. And where the presence thing came from. It started, Patrick, with the mindset pieces. It started with the logical mindset pieces. So a lot of athletes have issues with discipline. I don't feel like practicing every day. Confidence. How do I get myself to perform in the game the same way I do in practice. Mental toughness. I miss five shots in a row. I feel nervous about taking shot number six. I got cut from the team last year. Maybe I should quit basketball. I faced this setback. Maybe I should shut down my business. So mental discipline, confidence, mental selfness are usually the biggest issues everyone has. And then you add in the initiative, which is, especially with entrepreneurs, being the go getter, Go make something Happen instead of waiting for things to happen. When you're able to fuse all the. All of these together into one person, and they become who you are, not something you do, I. E. And Pastor, you're not consciously thinking, I need to be confident. I need to be confident. When I go outside and walk, I'm not thinking. I need to look confident. I'm not thinking, shoulders back, head up. That's just my normal posture. When you fuse these together and you don't have to think about it, meaning it becomes part of your subconscious programming, I. E. A habit. That's when you start to give off an energy that other people can feel, even though they can't quite explain what it is. That's where it all came from. And as I have conversations with people, I just notice little things that people say to me, whether they're talking about themselves or they're talking about me. And I start to piece it all together. And the realization that I came to is that. And this is actually not some brand new idea. But most people, when they are buying things, they're not buying the thing. They're not buying the thing that it does. They're buying the outcome. They're buying the feeling of it. So it's like people say, when people buy a hammer, they don't want to do work. What they want is the nail and nailed into the other board. They want a hole in the wall. They buy a drill because they want a hole. Right. Not because they want to drill stuff. So it's just understanding what is the outcome that people want, and then combining that with what do I embody best that people can see in me? Because people want a lot of things, but I can't sell everything, and nor do I have the credibility to sell everything. What do I have the credibility to say to people, I can teach you how to do this, because not only have I done it, not only can I explain it, but I also embody it. That's where the presence came from.

A (38:10)

It's who I am. Yeah. I love that when you think about, you know, you've used and you use the word discipline probably more frequently than I've heard many use the word discipline. And. And I've. Over the past few years, I've kind of looked at what does it take to have somebody succeed? How. What does it take to be successful? And I often use discipline. It really boils down to disciplines. I've actually come to a place where I'm kind of debating myself, Dre, with a lot of, you know, there's Books been written about habits, you know, atomic habits, you know, a very popular book. But I look at it and I go, I don't think it's habits. You know, I, I think I've, you know, I've trained most of my life. Like, literally, I'm training as in working out. I'm not training for a specific sport, but my commitment has always been to healthy body, healthy mind, quality of life and all of those things. But it takes discipline. Individuals say, well, it takes 21 days. And I kind of call bullshit on that. And I'd like your opinion on it, because I don't think it's habits. I don't think habits are about anything. You know, I have the habit every night when I take my glasses off, I put them somewhere that I know that I can find them in the morning. So I never lose my glasses as an example. Is that a habit or is that just discipline to do it? Because if I, at any given time go, you know, screw it, and, and I put them somewhere and then go, shit, where did I put my glasses? You know, or where did I put my phone? You know, I joke with my, my wife, you know, under, under, under, under stone, when she passes away, it's going to be, where's my phone? You know, that's going to be, going to be. That's the question. But the point is that she doesn't have the habit slash the discipline to be mindful of where she puts her phone. So my question for you from your world, given all of your history, is it habits or is it discipline? What's your take on those two words?

B (40:12)

Well, there are two sides of the same coin. So when you fuse habits together, you become a disciplined person when you fuse habits together of things that you know you actually want or need to do. So it could be something as simple as my glasses in the same spot every time. Make sure I go to the gym every day, even when my back is hurting or it's raining outside or my knees bother me, I'm still going to the gym. That's a discipline. What tends to make something a discipline, let's say colloquially, is when you're doing something, even when you don't feel like doing it. That's generally what makes something discipline. A habit is just unconscious stuff that we do. Like you're going to take your glasses off all the time. You have a good day, bad day, you're taking glasses off. But some people, when their back hurts, they don't go to the gym. But when your back hurts, you go to the gym. That's the discipline. Because you don't feel like doing it. The discipline doesn't really come into play until you don't feel like it.

A (41:01)

Discipline, yes. Do it even though you hate it. That's whatever the story is around that. Now, were you. Take me back a little bit into, you know, how you grew up, Dre was, you know, you're. And now today you're athlete. Now you're entrepreneurial, You're a business owner. You drive business, whether it be your coaching business or the other things that you have going on. You're an author. 41 times. Take me back into I often ask the question, is entrepreneurship or is the outcome that you've got, is it nature or is it nurture? Were your parents entrepreneurial? Were they athletes? How did you get on the journey and stick with the journey?

B (41:39)

Great question. So when my parents entrepreneurial, not really. They dabbled. They had some small business things that they did. They were not athletes. I'm 6, 4, 6ft 4 inches. My parents are, my dad's maybe 5, 8, my mom's 5, 7. They were not athletes. They are biological, though. We did the test and everything. Patrick. So when it comes to discipline, you mentioned it. I mentioned the word a lot. I do, because discipline was the thing that I usually would frontline myself as. I teach professionals to be high level, disciplined people. Thing is a little bit too logical and that's not really what people want. People know they need it, but that's not what they want. They want presence. They need discipline to get to presence, but you can't sell them that same way you can't give a dog medicine. You got to wrap it up in some peanut butter for them to eat it. So. So however, I mentioned discipline for a reason. Grew up in a two parent household. My mother was the. Basically, she's made the rules for the kids. I have one sister, she's a year older than me. She's the one who made sure we went to school, check our homework, go to the parent teacher meetings, etc. She was the one who handed out the discipline most of the time. And my mom is in the education space, but she was very disciplined herself. She never used that word, but she was a very disciplined person and she was very strict. My father, he basically co signed whatever my mom decided the rules were. And he worked in basically a factory. He worked with his hands for about 30 years. Now. My dad's real passion was not factory work. It was music. He would do his music on the side after work. So there Were many nights where he would do like music gigs at a cabaret or some bar or something like that. He still does it to this day. He's retired now, still does it to this day. And there were many nights where he would go to work after getting off of work, working 9 to 5 with his hands. And he worked the kind of job where you would get the dirt under your fingernails, it doesn't come out no matter how often you shower. And he would go from work, take a shower, change clothes, go do his music gig. He wouldn't come home till 12 in the morning and then he would be up at 5 o' clock the next day to go back to work again. He did that for 30 years. And my parents, my mom worked in the education space that was more her wheelhouse. What she literally wanted to do in life, her passion, she's still in it. But at the same time she would often have jobs where she didn't like the co workers. I think my mom loved the kids because she's in early education, so she loved working with kids. And she's excellent. My sister is a college professor to this day. And I became what I became because we had a teacher in the house, we had a cheat code. And she loved working with kids. I don't think she liked working with the adults, her co workers, the people she had to be peers with, because I would hear her get on the phone at night and I don't know who she was talking to, but she would complain about her co workers and talk trash about them. So I'm bringing all that up, Patrick, to say that my parents, despite all this, never complained about their situation. My dad never complained about working in a factory 9 to 5. My mom never complained about her co workers to us. I heard her complaining, but she wasn't talking to me. Nor did they ever brag about the fact that they got up every day and went to work, even though I know both of them had elements of their jobs that they didn't like. When I was 14, I went and worked with my job, with my dad at his job for the summer. It was like a little kid job. But I saw what he was doing. And this was not, this is not glorified work at all. This is manual labor is what he was doing. And they never complained about it and they never bragged about it. So what I tell people as a parent now is that your kids don't do what you say, they do what you do. And because my parents were so disciplined, when I got on the basketball court not because of them, but when I got on the basketball court, all I did was what I had demonstrated to me at home was to show up every day and work, and no one was teaching me basketball. I just kept going to the court and developing my skills, and that's how I got good at basketball. It worked in basketball. So when I got out of basketball, I said, maybe it'll work in business. And I started doing the same things.

A (45:33)

Dre, when you think about, you know, your upbringing, you were into sports, you started, I'm assuming, playing basketball and gained the love of the game at an early age. High school, kind of stuff, middle school about.

B (45:47)

I start focusing on basketball around age 14, but I was always playing sports before then.

A (45:52)

Right. So when you looked at the basketball, when we talk about, again, discipline, do you think and do you recognize or in your view, do you have to have at least a vision, something that you're aspiring to achieve that helps you? You know, the discipline is to do it whether you want to or not. Like, there's, you know, you know, there's those individuals that go, I do it even though I hate it. Like, I hate it every day, but I do it because my vision's bigger than my dislike for whatever it is I'm doing. So is that some version of what you kind of adopted, you know, as a young man growing into a sport, did you have a vision for playing pro basketball? At some point you said, maybe I can do this. I mean, you went international, you played on, you know, whatever might have been a farm team or whatever it was internationally, but ultimately, did you have aspirations of playing NBA? And then you just committed to that. And so even though there was times that you didn't want to go to practice or you didn't want to work out or you didn't want to eat properly, that vision supported the discipline that you needed.

B (47:00)

So, yes. And at the same time, I only speak for myself, because I'll give you some examples of other athletes that I saw. So the funny thing about the sports entertainment space is that it's not like most other careers. And a lot of people who haven't been in those spaces, I see it on social media all the time. They don't quite get it, especially in the sports world, because the difference between the sports world and, let's say, being a singer or a dancer or a music musician, is that in sports, there's an objective arbiter, which means you must actually perform in a measurable, objective way to be successful. I have to score more points for you to win the game, I have to. Now, if I'm a singer and you're a singer, you could be a terrible singer but still sell more records than me simply because they make you a bigger star or you just have more fans for whatever reason. It's completely subjective. Sports world has some objectivity to it. It's the closest thing to a meritocracy you get in life because that scoreboard is not a human. Humans have feelings. Scoreboards don't have feelings. So that's why I like sports and I like to reference back to sports a lot of things that I do because it's objective. So in sports, there's a baseline amount of talent, Patrick, that you have to have if you're even going to be eligible to play. I don't care what sport. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey, gymnastics. If you don't have a baseline amount of talent, you can work as hard as you want. You're not making it. If you're 57 and you can't jump, you can work all day. You're not making basketball, you're not going to make it as a basketball player. Now me, I had a baseline amount of talent, but not so much that I could get by without effort. Now, there are some athletes out there and I've known many of them. And anyone who's a fan of basketball can probably name some and other sports as well where a player is so talented, Patrick, that they will make it all the way to the pro level. They may not last long, but they'll make it there just because they are so damn talented, not because they have so much work ethic. Now there are other players who they have to have the work ethic to actually to be somebody. Now, when you fuse talent, an immense talent and immense work ethic, you get celebrity, you get superstars, you get Derek Jeter, you get Michael Jordan, you get Kobe Bryant. When you combine two, when you combine enough talent with a lot of work ethic, then you get Dre Baldwin. Most people never heard of me, right? But I was able to make it because I had enough talent to kind of be over the Mendoza Line. But had I not had the effort, Patrick, I would never would have made it as a pro. So to answer your question, were there days that I didn't feel like practicing? Absolutely. Were the times I. That I was facing setbacks, I didn't make the high school team or I'm not getting playing time on whatever team, but I still went and practiced. Yes, because I understood I couldn't have language. It so much Back then when I was playing. But I understood I'm not that talented. I'm talented, but I ain't that talented. I have to keep working just to keep a job. Whereas some of my teammates, they don't have to work hard to keep their job because they're just that good. They can just roll out of bed and be good. I'm not that good. And a lot of people don't have the humility to admit that to themselves. I had the humility to understand that. And one thing I'll bring up while we're on the subject and I'll end my answer is that confidence and humility are not diametrically opposed. They actually work together. Because when you have the humility to know that you're not so good that you can't do the work, that you don't have to do the work, you have the humility to understand the work is required for you to even get a chance. You do the work. And when you do the work, what does that afford you? Discipline affords you confidence. So I'm humble enough to know I need to practice. Think about your favorite football team. Favorite football, Football player. Tom Brady is humble enough to understand if I don't practice Monday through Saturday, we're gonna get our butts kicked on Sunday. So the humility that he takes through the week allows him to be confident when the lights come on on Sunday. Does that make sense?

A (50:37)

Oh, 100%. Yeah. I totally get it. And it is interesting too is that my background is, you know, over the years, I've worked extensively and for many years with NHL hockey players and all levels of hockey, but NHL hockey players, you know the difference between what we call a plumber in the league, that fourth line player that has not a ton of talent, obviously enough talent to play the fourth line of NHL, which doesn't suck. But the difference between a fourth line player and a first line player is night and day, when you can see them on the ice and you understand the difference. But speaking with many coaches over the years and many scouts over the years, those particular players, and it sounds somebody even like yourself, is work ethic is part of the reason that they kept on the team. So their skills are, I don't want to call it marginal, but they're not a third or a second line player, you know, but their work ethic is so good. It keeps them in the game and it keeps them playing. And that comes down to discipline as well. And work ethic is part of discipline in how I view it. What's your thoughts on that?

B (51:46)

I 100 agree. And work ethic is about some of what we talked about earlier, Patrick. It's not work ethic. When you feel like doing it. You don't call it work ethic on the days you feel like practicing is work ethic when you don't feel like practicing. And that's what separates the pros from the amateurs is who's willing to keep showing up even when you don't feel like showing up. Because similar to those people you call the plumbers. I like that. That phrasing, it makes perfect sense. The plumbers in hockey or the guys back and forth between the minors and the majors in baseball, or the guys at the end of the bench in basketball or the golfers who are just barely hanging on to keep their card on the PGA Tour, Is that those players? There are a thousand of them who are not in the league. There are a thousand of them who don't have a job. And they know those plumbers understand that if they stop showing up with that work ethic, there's a thousand guys who could easily take their spot and be at the end of the bench. It's hard to take the first line guy spot. Is it easy to take the fourth line guy spot? They know that, and that's why they have to keep working so they develop that work ethic. And another interesting thing, you probably noticed this yourself, is that a lot of the best coaches that used to be players are not the superstars. They're the guys who are at the end of the bench because they know what it felt like to be a star, maybe in college or at the amateur level. But they also can relate to the guys at the end of the bench because they've been into the end of the bench. And you can't be a superstar. Michael Jack. Michael Jordan would not be a good coach because he doesn't know what it feels like to not be the best player in the gym. Magic Johnson tried to coach. Anybody remembers that. That didn't go too well. He's too good. He doesn't understand what it's like to not be the best player in the gym. And the players who know it feels like.

A (53:21)

By the way, that was Wayne Gretzky. By the way, when he went to coach for Phoenix, it was like, okay, Wayne, you're a player. You're not a coach. That was easily okay anyway.

B (53:29)

Exactly. He was just too good. He doesn't. He can't relate to anyone other than the best player on the team. He doesn't know what it feels like to not be that. So you look at a lot of the best coaches these days. A lot of them either played in the NBA and they were marginal players, role players, as we call them, or they maybe played basketball, maybe at college, maybe they played overseas. They didn't play in the NBA. But they're great coaches because they can communicate. They can relate to everyone, and they don't. They have not lived this warped existence of, I'm just better than everybody, so that's the reason I win. They couldn't do. They couldn't get away with that.

A (54:00)

So when you think about, you know, this conversation, Dre, you know, we talk about discipline. You talked about presence. And when we start to say, well, how do we be more intentional? How do we become aware of how we're showing up, you know, and aware of our presence, how do we define it? You said the word, but you didn't kind of go there with it. What's your thought process on the term mindset? You know, in terms of it really. Is it a mindset? Is it. I don't want to say is it as simple as mindset? But is. Is development of that mindset. Mindset. Is that a kind of a journey that you take your clients on?

B (54:38)

Absolutely. It's the first thing we do, so I'm glad you brought it up. It's the very first thing I do with anyone who comes into my world. I don't care who they are, what they're doing, or what they're looking for. Everyone starts with mindset. And the reason is, is because the process for achievement in life is be, do, and have in that order. You must be the person first. Then you do the stuff, Then you have the outcome. Most people focus on the doing the stuff to get the outcome, but they never focus on the being. If you don't change who you are, it doesn't matter what you do. So the mindset, we break that word down. Mindset. Your mind is set in a certain way. It's programmed, and that's through the subconscious, which controls 85% of our thoughts are subconscious, not conscious. And a lot of people are not aware of this concept. And when you're unaware of it, that means you can't do anything about it. If you want to change who you are, you have to change the way you think. And to change the way you think, you have to understand the concept of the subconscious and how it can be changed. So the subconscious mind can be programmed in three specific ways, or it is in three specific ways. Repetition, the same thing over and over again. Immersion, that's putting yourself in an environment where you can't think of anything else other than that. And emotionalization, which is some emotional peak that you hit, either intentionally or it just happens. And it can change your subconscious in one exposure. So these are the ways that the subconscious is changed. And I can tell this to anyone, no matter where you are in life, is that by repetition, telling yourself the same things over and over and over and over again, your subconscious mind will eventually come to accept it, whether it's true or not. This is the reason people do affirmations, the reason people do mindset exercises and mindfulness exercises even. I have things written down that I say to myself literally on a daily basis. This part of programming the subconscious mind. You hear Mike Tyson talk. His trainer who taught him how to box, a guy named Custody Amato, he trained Mike through subconscious programming. He would say things to him and have Mike say it to himself. Had him think, I'm the most vicious, ferocious fighter out there, and I'll take anybody's head off. And Mike. And he got it ingrained in him, combined with his skill, and he became Mike Tyson. Now, when he lost his edge, when Mike lost his presence, that's when he started getting beat up. Now, he didn't lose the skill. He started getting beat up because he lost it up here. And one of the reasons he lost is because that trainer died when Mike was very young, early in his career, and he didn't have anybody to keep that, keep him on point mentally. And that's really where it goes when you lose it. It's not when you lose it physically, you lose it mentally first, then you lose it physically. So when it comes to mindset, it is everything. It's everything because when you lose your discipline, you're not going to be a pro anymore. You lose your confidence, you can't play anymore, you lose your mental toughness. The slightest breeze is going to knock you down. If you lose your initiative, you're sitting around waiting for life to happen to you. So mindset is everything. I'm glad you brought it up.

A (57:24)

It's interesting. You were talking about affirmations or mantras, whatever terminology might want to use, many years ago. And I don't know this to be true, but in my memory, I remember it because I remembered the affirmation, and it was Donald Trump, I think he was being interviewed, and somebody asked him a question. I don't even remember what the question was about, how he, you know, does he speak, you know, positive self talk, etc. And this was his quote. He goes, I'm always in the right place at the right time to write the right to meet the right people, to have the right deal. And he says, I, you know, that's something I wake up every day. I'm always in the right place at the right time to meet the right people, to make the right deal. And that, that's something that he repeated at that time. He shared some version of that. I probably screwed it up at some level. But, you know, at that high level, those are the kind of the training and the self talk. And that takes discipline too, you know, to really, to lean into that. And there's a degree of trust, I guess, that you're saying, you know, if I'm going to be part of the universal consciousness, then that's how I want to tap into it. Is that in line with your thinking as well, Drake?

B (58:36)

One million percent. So someone like Trump, I mean, way before he got into politics, right? So he has all this money and he is known as a billionaire. He loses everything. He's $6 billion in debt, whatever it was. And people would always mention him as an example of this. He said, why? What's the reason why a guy like him can be rich and then $6 billion in debt and then come back richer than he was before? Not because of what he did, but because of who he is. It's his mentality. And interestingly enough, I don't know if you know this, but Trump grew up going to the church of a man named Norman Vincent Peale, who wrote a book called the Power of Positive Thinking. That's where he got the programming from. Norman Vincent Peale wrote that book, and that book is all about thinking positively and programming your mind with positive thoughts. And because of those positive thoughts you program your mind with, it doesn't matter what happens in the tangible world, because your mind is stronger than your circumstances. That's really what resilience and mental toughness is all about, is that 99 of life is outside of our control. I don't control anything. I go outside and drive. Only thing separating me from the car going the other way is a little yellow line. I don't have any control over that. If it rains, I don't control that. I don't control other people. I don't control. The Internet goes out while we're having this conversation. All I can control is 1%, which is the way that I think. And when you get 100 control over the 1%, this is part of presence too. Patrick, when you take 100 control over the 1%, it feels like you're controlling the 99, even though you're not. And when a person you come across has such mental control over their 1%, they're thinking. They never have a thought that goes against them. Their thoughts are not fighting with them. This is how most people live. They're fighting against their own thoughts. They're their own worst enemy. As we said, when someone masters that, it feels like they're controlling more than 1% of life. That's why they have presence, because it's like, wow, this person says something and it happens. This person shows up and things get better. This person walks into a room and all of a sudden everyone wants to cooperate. How is that? What is this person doing? How do they control so much? They're only controlling 1%. They just control all of their 1%. Most people only control like 10% of their 1%. Then they wonder why life is not working in their favor, or they have these up and down situations. But when you mentally stay in 100% control over the 1% that you have, that doesn't mean you may not face setbacks again. Trump was $6 billion in debt. It's Michael Jordan. He came back from baseball, lost, and everybody said he's done. But when you stay there in the long term, you always end up winning. So I tell people life is short and long at the same time as a marathon. And as long as you keep going and you stay mentally locked in, it is inevitable that you're going to win.

A (61:15)

I love that. So, you know the question. I want to take it off on a little bit of a tangent, Dre, just because of how you are today, you know, given that you played pro sports. You know, I, in my own experience of meeting professional athletes and very accomplished, you know, amateur athletes, as in Olympic quality, and then they move on. Here's my question for you. Is that part of what I've seen over the years with that level of athlete or even business owner, is who are you if you're not that? Did you, in your world. Because I think this kind of ties into presence as well. Did you, in your world, as you kind of morphed out of pro sport, was there a moment of identity crisis? Was there a moment of, who the hell am I if I'm not that? Or did you always kind of know that at some point that was going to unfold for you? Just given the level that you played in the game? How was that transition from you going from pro sport? Into business, sport owner, entrepreneur, however you want to phrase it. And did you go through that phase of identity crisis or having to really step back and go, who am I if I'm not that?

B (62:24)

It's a great question. It was actually the latter. It was the latter of the first set of questions, which was because of the level that I was at, that there was no guarantee I was going to make it. I always had it kind of in the back of my mind that I knew that there was going to be some type of life outside of basketball. And I didn't know when it would be. Patrick. So the thing about being a professional athlete is that I didn't sign a nine year contract. It was one year, one year, one year, one year. Every year it's the next job. So the same thing, like an actor or an actress, you're on the set now doing this movie, but when this movie's over, what's the next movie? All right, we don't know. And if that phone doesn't ring, you're done. And the funny thing is, a funny thing with athletes, they say sometimes you're the last one to find out your career is over. All right? The same thing happens in acting.

A (63:10)

Now.

B (63:10)

The good thing for me is that I walked away from the game. I didn't. I wasn't waiting by the phone and then just said, oh, I guess it's done. I decided to stop playing. But I knew that in a year, first year, third year, eighth year, there might not be another year. So I was always thinking, what can I bring to the table to make myself valuable after sports now? Very easily for me, I could have went into the normal after sports careers. Coach, trainer, analyst. I knew I didn't want to do that. I knew I wanted to get out of basketball if I wasn't playing. I don't like coaching. I don't have the patience for coaching. I didn't want to be a trainer. Even though I could have been a trainer, I would have had plenty of clients. I could announce myself as a trainer today and have a bunch of clients today just because of my audience from YouTube back in the day. But I didn't want to do that. I knew I had more value than just sports. So for me, I was always thinking about it. But for most athletes, they don't think about it because they just want to play ball, for example. And it's funny because even at levels that are closer to where I was at, they still have this thought. I got hired by the NBA after basketball to be a speaker to their. They have these programs that they do for the players during the season. And they hired me to go speak to the developmental league players, also known as the G league, the Minor League in NBA. And they have, I believe, 20 teams in the league. And I spoke to all 20 teams. It'll be two teams at a time. So 10 different meetings, 20 teams total. And I remember before the first meeting, I'm talking to a couple people from the league who would be at every meeting. So the meeting would be the people from the league would give them some league stuff that the players needed to know. And then the guest speakers would come up and talk. It'd be two or three of us, and one person would talk about relationships. Another one might talk about money. I would talk about, what do you do after basketball? And I asked one of the women who work for the league, I said, do they really want to hear somebody like me? She said, no, they just want to play ball. All they want to do is play ball. They come to the meeting because they have to. Meetings are mandatory. So they would come to the meeting, and they want the meeting to be over as quickly as possible. You're sitting there talking to me. He's getting a whole lot of long faces, a lot of rolled eyes. And out of 20 players in every group, two or three players, it was always the same. Two or three guys out of the whole group would be interested in what I was saying. They were thinking about investments, thinking about, what am I going to do after basketball? Some of them were literally thinking, like, this might be my last year playing basketball. I might move on and just stop trying to play ball. So the rest of them, they didn't want to hear it. They just wanted to get out of there, say, go play the next game. Because this is the league where they're trying to make it to the NBA. So they don't want to hear anybody talking about after basketball. They're like, dude, I just got here. I'm not trying to get after. I'm trying to play now. So a lot of players have that thought that I'm just going to play ball, and they'll figure it out when it's time to figure it out. Because a lot of them think. A lot of athletes think, well, I'll make so much money playing that I won't need to do anything after basketball. But that's it. The harsh reality is you probably will, depending on your lifestyle, depending on who you're taking care of, depending on taxes. Now that money goes quick when there's no Money coming in. It seems like it's continuing to come when the checks are coming, when there's no check coming. There's a former NFL player named Cam Newton. You know Cam? Heard of him?

A (66:08)

Yeah, I know the name for sure. Yeah, yeah.

B (66:10)

There was a quote that he had. He won the MVP, and about 10 years ago, he won MVP. He was a star quarterback. And it was something that he said because Cam has like eight kids. And he said, I feel sad that I cannot provide for my kids the same way that I was when I was playing, because the checks aren't coming in the same. That he's just now realizing this. So he stopped playing about two or three years ago. But that happens in sports. That even he was a star player. Like he was one of the highest paid guy quarterbacks, the biggest job in all of team sports. He was a star. And again, the lifestyle that you may adopt, adapt to because the money's coming in changes. When the money's not coming in anymore, you realize, oh, that, that. That balance is going down faster than I thought. But I didn't have that problem because I was a fringe. I was kind of on the fringe, if you want to say. So I was always thinking about, what do I do next? And I also knew, Patrick, that I had more value to give to the world than just being an athlete. Because I said, okay, when I'm done with sports, what will I do? And as I started talking about things like mindset and presence, I realized that I could help people who never even picked up a ball. So I said, why would I limit myself to just basketball? I can do more than that. Some athletes, they should stay in basketball because they have no other value. I'm not saying that in a negative way, but it's just what it is. And I came from the sports world, so I can say that I know a lot of athletes who should just stay in that sport and not do anything else, because that's all they got. But I had more than that, so I knew I could bring more to the table.

A (67:29)

Well, and let's face it, and you know this, and I've certainly learned this, as my wife Stephanie has over the years, is that there's so many overlaps of being a great business owner, operating a great business, that, you know, there's so many overlaps of sport and the analogies and the way of being and the environment and culture and all of the things that I don't want to say it's normal, but it is quite normal in the sporting world because it's you know, many years deep in terms of development of those things where when you have a business, what are you doing? You're trying to bring a team together, you're trying to win the game that you're playing, and you have to create the culture, you have to drive the practice and the training and the development and all of the things that you have to do. So there's so many ways to integrate what business is into or what the philosophies of sport, if you will, and team into how business is. And it sounds like that's a big part of what you've done over the years, is you're taking what you've learned on the court, working with teams, creating culture and environment, because environment is so, so important in business. You know, what is the environment that you're creating for your team? What is the culture that you're creating, which is, you know, what? You know, one of my high areas of interest, one of the things I've done with the businesses over the years that I have, is that being very definitive and clear on what is the culture that we want to have as a team. And really, what you're talking about is even in the presence of a leader, that is about driving culture, that is about how you occur and how you show up. Taking responsibility for it is something. There's a. There's a great quote that we're all familiar with, which is, it's not the goal, it's who you got to become to achieve the goal, which is going back to what you're saying, have being, doing, having, being, doing, having. Right. So that. That is really always about who you're being. And so taking the discipline, taking the lessons that you learned in sport and overlapping it with your business clients and even with how you operate your own businesses, I'm sure it's a pretty good fit that way, you know?

B (69:37)

Yes. And what you're describing is what we call credibility fusion. And credibility fusion is when you take that credibility from multiple spaces and you're able to fuse it together in a. What becomes a seamless way that people can understand. Okay, you played a sport, now you're an entrepreneur. You talked about mindset, you talked about performance, and now you kind of make it all flow. That's the credibility fusion. And that's really the thing that I think a lot of people are looking for, because I work with a lot of transitioning people, corporate to entrepreneur, athlete to starting a business, military, leaving the military, changing careers. So in that transition, they don't want to lose what they just spent 20 years doing. They want there to be some value from that, and they want to have some credibility in a new space. How do we fuse this together to make all of their life matter in the thing that they're doing right now?

A (70:26)

Love it. Dre, you've been really generous with your time, your insights today. Appreciate it. It's been a very interesting conversation as we kind of wind things down. Before I go to kind of what I like to do as we wind things down, is there anything that you would want to add to the conversation that we've already had that we don't want to step over, that you want to share and go, you know something? Before we change subject, you know, I want to make sure that people hear this or understand that. Anything for you.

B (70:55)

Yes. And that my whole brand and company is called work on your game. And game is all about understanding what space you're actually in and how success is measured. And the good thing is, for many of us is that you choose how your success is measured. Especially in the. Excuse me, entrepreneurial and professional world. You. You choose your measuring sticks, and the sports world is chosen for you. You have to beat the person in front of you. But in the business world, it's much more subjective. So the game is what is a success for us? What is success for our company, our department this quarter, this year? You decide that. Then the next piece of the game is, okay. What skills and tools was we develop and have in order to achieve this outcome? And then how do we make sure we have a process or a structure in place that is designed to have us do this? Because that structure produces the discipline. The disciplines executed consistently produce confidence. That confidence leads to performance. The performance leads to results. And if we produce results, we get whatever rewards we want. So that's what having game and working on your game is all about.

A (71:58)

I love it. Cool. Okay. So as we wind down, I go into what we call rapid fire questions that aren't so rapid fire. Drake. And so thanks for all the insight you've shared so far. So this. Let's have a little fun. Maybe. Maybe. Okay. I. I always warm it up. It's a nice, light question. Android or Apple iPhone?

B (72:21)

I've never had an Android.

A (72:23)

You never had an Android? You know, I talk to guests. Just so you know, I talk to guests all the time. They go, iPhone. Are you crazy? I'm Android all the way. So there we go.

B (72:32)

Maybe more tech heavy people. I'm not a. I'm not a tech that way, too.

A (72:36)

And you have a Favorite band, favorite music genre, favorite song.

B (72:42)

Favorite music genre is definitely hip hop. Favorite band or artists. I would say is 50 cents. I'm sure you heard of him. Yeah. And my favorite album is if I had to pick one, I'll give you two. I'll cheat and give you two. I'll say 50s debut album called Get Rich or Die trying and Notorious B.I.G's second album called Life After Death.

A (73:01)

Beautiful.

B (73:02)

Favorite movie, Not a big movie person, but if I had to pick one, I would go with Ocean's Eleven. George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon.

A (73:11)

That was a fun one. That was a fun one. Yeah. Now, do you have a book that you was a pivotal book for you or one that you've reread or that you gift or was a fork in the road because you read it?

B (73:23)

I can give you 50, but I'll give you a handful. Number one, 48, Laws of Power by Robert Greene. Number two, the Laws of Success by Napoleon Hill. Number three, 33, Strategies of War by Robert Greene. Number four to 50th of all by Robert Greene. And I give you one that's more contemporary, is 10x is easier than 2x by Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan.

A (73:44)

Yeah, yeah, Benjamin Hardy, Dan Sullivan, great book. Also Gap and the gain came from that series or a series with those two. Thought it was very good. So great. Great selection of books for sure. If there is a God, what do you want to hear he or she say when you get to the gates?

B (74:01)

I want he or she to say that, Dre, you made the most of the opportunities and resources that you were given. You maxed out on what you were granted, and I appreciate and I'm proud.

A (74:13)

Of that beautiful favorite swear word, mofo, motherfucker.

B (74:20)

I usually say mofo to avoid the AI bands on social media.

A (74:25)

That was great. And final question for today. Anyways, Dre, what are you grateful for?

B (74:32)

I'm grateful for the opportunity to be able to maximize on my gifts. Having been born when I was born, I was born in 1982. I didn't know the Internet was coming, didn't know social media was coming. The ability to be an entrepreneur from your couch and with no startup money wasn't available to my parents. But because of the foundation that they laid, I was able to take advantage of it, even though I didn't even see it coming when I graduated from college. But I'm grateful for just the opportunity to take all the talents and skills that I have. I mean, I could only imagine if I was born when they were born, how much that I can get out there now that probably wouldn't have come out. There wouldn't have been a place to do it. There was no vehicle for it. So I appreciate that.

A (75:14)

Beautiful. And I am grateful always for my guests, the insights that you've shared today. I'm grateful for my family and the opportunity to have conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved extraordinary results like yourself. Drake, appreciate your time, your energy, the insights that you shared today. It was awesome. So thank you very much.

B (75:37)

No, I appreciate the opportunity. Patrick, thank you for sharing your audience with me. I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback.

A (75:44)

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others. Share with your friends, as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you'd like answered, please email me@ceoraincanada.com that's ceor e I n canada.com I look forward to hearing from you. And until next time, Patrick O.