Amelia Trumbull (5:07)

Hi. Thanks so much for having me.

Jennifer Mackie (5:09)

It's absolutely my pleasure. I am so excited to talk to you today because I think that this is such a big issue for women. What do we do with our stuff? And that's what we're going to talk about. But we're going to stick a pit in that for just a second. Tell me a little bit about yourself and how you got started on this Retold Recycling journey.

Amelia Trumbull (5:32)

Yeah, well, I feel like it's appropriate to say here for this podcast that I'm a big shopper. I love shopping. You know, I would say it's almost kind of like a hobby of mine. It's something that I used to do a lot with my mum when I was a kid. Like we'd always go to the mall on the weekend, that kind of thing. So I think like deep in my son subconscious, there was something there where I knew I was like consuming a lot. Air quotes consuming. And therefore there was like something in the back of my brain that was like, I need to be doing a better job on this front. From a sustainability perspective. Fast forward to a place in my life where I was working with a couple of friends at a large corporate in New York and we're always talking about, like, how can we start a company and do better for the world? And then all of the things came together in this like amazing melting pot in that I was renovating my small Brooklyn apartment, I needed to declutter my closets and get rid of things because I did have a lot of stuff I needed to find a solution. So I was ubering things to Goodwill, trying to like drag stuff to a farmer's market for collection events, that kind of thing. And it all just felt too hard. And so the idea popped for Retold, which is to create an at home, super, super easy and convenient recycling service for all of your unwanted clothes and household textiles. And the really important thing for us was to create something that was super convenient. So the idea of getting our bags into your home, being able to fill them up and then drop them in the post seemed way more seamless than adding carbon footprint by driving things around and whatever else. So I'd say I got to this point with Retold because it's a little bit of my personal interest, but also the groundswell of working with my friends who then became my co founders, to want to do something that would help the greater good.

Jennifer Mackie (7:31)

I love that. And you and I were chatting before we hit record about how neither of us are the extreme sustainability type. And there's nothing wrong with that. I admire it. I really do admire it.

Amelia Trumbull (7:45)

We have plenty of customers who are very obsessive, for sure.

Jennifer Mackie (7:50)

It's wonderful. But I, I think that that's. It's really hard. It's really, it's very, very difficult. And that takes. That's like a singular commitment, right? And, and I don't know, just me as an everyday woman and I know my listeners as everyday women, like, we want to do better Maybe without going to that 100% extreme where we are buying one shirt and we're wearing it until it literally falls off our body. But we do, we want to do better than just chucking it in a landfill or sending it to Goodwill where, spoiler alert, friends, it's gonna be chucked in a landfill. Like that's what's happening to your Goodwill stuff. We'll get there in a minute. But I love this idea of making it easy for people because how many of us drive around with bags in the back of our car?

Amelia Trumbull (8:38)

Totally, totally.

Jennifer Mackie (8:39)

We're gonna donate them. We're gonna do it.

Amelia Trumbull (8:41)

Exactly. And you know, as I mentioned to you, I have a five year old little girl and she grows out of things super fast, like puts holes. Am I going to be going and spending, you know, hundreds of dollars on clothes that maybe are, you know, super sustainably made, very high quality. I would love to do that, but frankly, I don't have the means and I don't think most people do. So it's like, how can you find something like, okay, maybe I'm going to grab like a three pack of leggings for her from Old Navy. But if I know that, you know, she grows out of them, maybe I can give them to some friends as hand me downs and give them a new life that way. But if they get hold and it's beyond repair, at least I have the comfort of knowing there's retail bags that I can put the items into and declutter sustainably, get them out of the house and know that they're going to the right place and not to landfills, as you said.

Jennifer Mackie (9:37)

Yeah, I feel like sustainability was so much easier with kids because I don't know, I feel like thrifting was easier, secondhand was easier with kids. And then in, in my family I have two sisters and between us we have four girls. And there is this snow jacket, snow pants set that has been worn. I have the oldest daughter, I buy everything and then it goes to my niece, it comes back to my daughter and then goes down to another niece. That set has been worn by four people and I bought it secondhand. It's been worn by all four girls. I mean, if it ended up in a landfill, now, like it has done its job. It has done its job. And I know for women it's so hard. It's so hard.

Amelia Trumbull (10:21)

It is hard. But I also think a lot of people wouldn't even see that re gifting of the same item as a sustainable practice. So firstly, like pat on Your back for thinking about how to give something an additional life. I mean, you kind of did it out of the kindness of helping your family members, but also you are doing something good for the earth by making sure you reuse as much as humanly possible and also training kids at a young age that you can rewear things over and over again, like find those pieces that you love and rewear them as opposed to just buying new all the time. So there's ways in which you can not be so, like, rigid around, like your sustainability practices, but you can weave in things into your everyday that, you know you're still doing a good job, you're doing better than maybe you did a year ago. And I still think that's a really awesome thing.

Jennifer Mackie (11:13)

Yeah, a little bit better. So I'd love to talk about Shark Tank for a minute because I am obsessed with Shark Tank. I love what it's done for entrepreneurship, and I think a lot of people have learned a lot about business from watching Shark Tank. You were on Shark Tank?

Amelia Trumbull (11:31)

Yes.

Jennifer Mackie (11:31)

You went out. What was that experience like?

Amelia Trumbull (11:33)

It was pretty wild.

Jennifer Mackie (11:36)

Hang on one second. So let's back up. Tell us exactly what Retold does in case anyone is like, wait, I don't.

Amelia Trumbull (11:42)

Yeah, yeah, let's do that. Yeah. So basically, Retold is an at home, male based, predominantly take back bag program for all of your unwanted clothing and household textiles. So you come on our website, you buy our yellow bags, fill them up with anything from your home that's a textile, basically. So obviously we take clothes, we can take, you know, some cloth bags. We'll take the outside of your dog bed, old linens, towels, anything that's a textile, wash it, throw it in our retail bags, seal them up. Most of our bags come with a mailing label attached and then you just pop it in the post and our whole service runs off usps, which we're very proud of because, you know, the mail systems already running all of their trucks over the US So we're not adding additional carbon footprint, which is great. It just means that you can basically do all of your decluttering from the comfort of your home. And then you can put your filled retail bag out for your postal worker to take with them at your front door where they're dropping off the mail every day. Or, you know, if you work in an office, drop it in the mail room. Or of course you can take it to the post office yourself. So, yeah, we wanted to make sure that everything was super easy and convenient. And then when our teams receive Those bags, we have recycling partners behind the scenes all over the country who open the bags, sort them. Anything that can be resold in thrift stores gets resold, which is great. So it's given a second life there. And then anything that is not fit for resale then gets broken down into a pulp. And that pulp is used for a variety of things. It's insulation. It can be the inside of car seats. It's woven into the squishy floors at some playgrounds. My personal favorite is that I love thinking that it's the inside of punching bags and boxing gloves. I love that. So there's more and more uses for what the industry calls shoddy. And we're really obsessive about also trying to find other products that we can make with that shoddy on the inside and switch out from virgin materials that are used in production. So my dream, and I keep, like, telling anyone who will listen, putting it out there to the universe. I want to make a couch that has, like, all shoddy on the inside for all of the padding, and, you know, make this sort of, like, sustainable furniture. So shout out to any furniture companies out there who might be listening, give me a call.

Jennifer Mackie (14:08)

That would be so cool. That would be really, really neat.

Amelia Trumbull (14:12)

Yeah. So really just finding, like, you know, again, we're all about, like, telling a new story with your oral textiles. That's why we're called Retold. So finding that second life for everything and just really making sure that everything's diverted away from landfills. And as you said, you know, there are a lot of other ways to get things out of your home. But, you know, I think the fact that we've created a very transparent and obvious network to say, okay, it goes from your house to our partners, and then here are the few things that happen, and then we're making sure nothing goes to landfill. We wanted to make that very obvious and upfront for everyone so they can really believe in our service.

Jennifer Mackie (14:52)

That is fantastic. All right, now we're going to talk about Shark Tank, but then we are really going to dive into the unwanted clothing crisis, because it is a clothing crisis. But first, I got to hear about Shark Tank. All right, tell me all about it.

Amelia Trumbull (15:05)

Yes. Basically, I think we've been up and running for two years. We launched in 2020, and then they have an internal casting team who actually found us. So I think everyone hears about how, like, you know, there's this whole audition process. Well, we were lucky that we got to kind of backdoor in. They found us, and we were just really like, oh, well, let's explore. Like, it wasn't something that was really on our radar. So we just went down the path with it, and their production team guided us through all of the vetting, and, you know, we sort of, like, got to the point where we had been selected. So we showed up on the day. All we knew is that obviously production had done some diligence on us to make sure, you know, we were a legit company. But all we knew is that, you know, we had rehearsed our pitch. We knew our pitch. We knew what our set looked like. Bags would go in front of each of the sharks on the set, but they would walk in and they wouldn't know anything other than our names and the name of the company. And that was something that I didn't know going into Shark Tank. I thought, oh, you know, it's all fake tv. Like, of course the Sharks know so much more. They've pre planned, like, who's probably gonna, like, go hard at making a deal. But that really wasn't the case. We had kind of talked about which sharks that we thought would be most appropriate for us to do a deal with, but we were very open. And honestly, the way the episode shook out, I don't know if you've seen our episode, but basically all of the sharks passed on us. And standing up there, you know, after we've nailed our pitch and we're trying to put forward, like, you know, so many different positives about our business and all of them not believing in us or just not quite seeing how they could get involved, like, it wasn't a good fit for them. It was literally like the blood was, like, draining out of my body. Like, it was just, you know, it was so mortifying and scary and just thinking, oh, my God, this is going to be on national tv. This is a train wreck. You know, I can feel, like, the additional gray hairs, like, spouting from my head, you know, as we speak. But there came Mark Cuban, and he had, like, asked a couple of questions in the beginning, and of course, they cut the chronology differently to make the episode seem exciting, but we were in the tank for probably about 25 minutes. So he had asked questions up front, and then a lot of the other sharks asked and passed. And then it came back to him, and he was basically like, I totally get it. I can see the future for you. I believe in your mission. I know how you can succeed, and I'm all in. And he made us a deal, which I tried to negotiate. That's what they tell you to do. But that completely backfired and I was like, just kidding. Like, we'll go for it.

Jennifer Mackie (17:42)

I'll take it.

Amelia Trumbull (17:43)

Get your Mark Cuban. What am I even doing?

Jennifer Mackie (17:45)

Right?

Amelia Trumbull (17:46)

So we did the deal with Mark and honestly, it's been fabulous for our business ever since. Like, yes, we had a great influx of customers when our episode aired. And yes, you know, we have a lot of, like B2B customers because we work a lot with brands and corporates as well to create recycling programs for them as well. But I think, you know, just helping us with our mission of getting. We talk a lot. No, landfill is our. Our mission and our vision. And getting that out to the masses has been amazing. Mark himself personally shares a lot of our social media moments and things like that. So it's amazing exposure and it just gives us great credibility that this, this amazing billionaire believes in our business model and his team is like, thoroughly vetted us now to close out the deal. So he's looked under the hood and he liked what he saw. So, you know, I think that's an amazing validation of what we're doing. And, you know, we love working with Mark and his team and he's super responsive. We can email him at any time and he will personally write back, which is amazing. But, like, what a mentor to have. Like, we've honestly struck gold.

Jennifer Mackie (18:52)

Well, that's always been my question. Like, okay, you go on the show, you get the deal. Is it just the exposure or are they actually involved? Do they. Do they mentor you? Are they available? Or is it just kind of it for TV thing? But you're saying no, there's actually. There's stuff on the back end too.

Amelia Trumbull (19:08)

Yeah, I mean, I can't speak to any of the other sharks because obviously we only work with Mark and his team. But because Mark is one of the OG sharks, like, he's invested in so many companies. So internally, within Mark Cuban companies, there's really the structure of people who have worked across multiple, multiple deals and, you know, you can really tap into them for resources. And we love working in with them. So to be honest, like, we keep up the communication, we share as much as we can, and we see the rewards from it, like whether it's, you know, business connections or some guidance or helping with exposure. So, yeah, we absolutely have had a great outcome. I've always said, you know, the money was kind of like a cherry on top, but really sort of working with Mark and his org has been the true value of everything. So, yeah, we couldn't be happier.

Jennifer Mackie (19:56)

Well, that's a huge compliment because I always feel like he goes out first, right? I think he's. I mean, he's very, very selective. And he's. The first one is like, I don't see the vision. I don't see how I can help. I'm out.

Amelia Trumbull (20:08)

It was interesting. I didn't realize this, but Alan, my business partner who was in the tank with me, he said to me after the fact is like, did you realize? Because I did a lot of the talking, so I was kind of like focused and listening and looking around. But, you know, I guess Alan was looking around a little bit more. He's like, he's. Did you see that? Mark was like writing on a notepad the whole time. So he was sort of like doing some math. He was making notes for himself and he was like formulating an opinion. So he was actually, you know, I think he does a lot behind the scenes that maybe you don't see in the episode. So we knew he goes out a lot very early. So the fact that he stuck around, I think is even more credit to the business and the need for what we're doing. He really believed in it.

Jennifer Mackie (20:51)

Well, that's a good segue to get back into the need for it because there is an unwanted. I mean, yes, textiles, but just clothing. There is a crisis of too many clothes and not enough people who need unwanted clothes. I mean, I absolutely. With that said, I understand there are a lot of people who need clothing, but I think we have this idea that when you donate to Goodwill or a charity like that, all of those things are going to end up in the hands of somebody who just really needs your old sweatshirt or, or it'll even be sold to provide programs for someone who really needs it. And that just simply isn't the case. There's just too much of it.

Amelia Trumbull (21:40)

That's right. That's right. I think that, you know, there's long been a perception, especially with the tax, you know, write off angle of the charity store, where it's just the perception of I'm doing the right thing. And it's like a lot of the time you are like, I will still donate some things to a charity store that I know is like, very good quality and I know is harder to recycle. So, for example, like, my little girl had an amazing leather jacket, and yes, that would have high resale value. But I was like, you know what? I'm gonna just, you know, I was dropping some other things, like old books and things to a charity store. And I was like, let me just take that as well, because I know that that would have high resale value. Someone's going to pick that up. That would help. But for the most part, I think, unfortunately, the stats that we see, because obviously that's not our business, but what we read and what we see is that a large portion, up to like 70, 80% of items do not get sold out of a charity store. And then, you know, those items are disposed of. Now, the good thing is, like, companies like Goodwill are innovating behind the scenes to make great partnerships, to have more sustainable practices. But I think it's also on all of us to get them the right things. And unfortunately, you know, you've probably seen it firsthand, if you are dropping anything off, like, you'll see that people will include their old undies or just really use it as like a bit of a dumping ground. And that's horrible. So I feel for those entities who are trying to be charitable, but unfortunately, if you have your sustainability hat on, it's just not the way to go.

Jennifer Mackie (23:12)

I think that's a really good point. That when we drop things there, we're just kind of making our problem their problem.

Amelia Trumbull (23:20)

Correct? Correct.

Jennifer Mackie (23:22)

I remember years ago I was volunteering at a. Just a community clothing closet, and it was a sorting event. People dropped off clothes we were sorting. And I had my daughter, who at the time was like five, and I thought, won't it be great to teach her to, you know, volunteer and get a big. I think it's wonderful to do.

Amelia Trumbull (23:39)

And.

Jennifer Mackie (23:40)

And she holds up this. She's like, mommy, what is this? And it is like this lacy red thong. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. Put it down. Just put it down. And I thought, why on earth, why on earth would you donate that, I mean, literally to a church clothing closet? We don't need your, your red knickers. We're not, we don't need those.

Amelia Trumbull (24:00)

But that's the, that's the thing, is that most people wouldn't have a clue what to do with that. And honestly, like, if they're not including it in their charity drop off, they're just putting it in the trash. And that's why, you know, a lot of time, you know, as a business, we're asked like, what's your elevator pitch? Well, my elevator pitch is like, what do you do with your old underwear? And 99% of the people that we talk to will say, oh, I put that in the trash. Gross. You know, I like, well, can't do anything with that, which, you know, appreciate that. However, the answer is actually wash it and put it in a retail bag because we can take that, break it down and then it does get a second life. And we're avoiding landfills. But it's really about the need for education around like that. There is an alternative and we work with a lot of councils across America where they don't have like a local processor or someone that they can work in with. So they will engage us to come and be the back of house for different events, for drop offs in their area because there's not coverage across the country. So that's where retail can help because we do run through the mail systems, we can stand up events and things like that. We just need to get the word out there that there is a more sustainable way of decluttering your house, you know, from a textiles perspective.

Jennifer Mackie (25:14)

So what's the problem with just throwing it in the landfill?

Amelia Trumbull (25:17)

Well, I mean, it's just really bad for the environment. It creates a lot of bad gases, it's horrible for the soil. I mean it takes such a long time for clothing and textiles to break down. We're not talking all organic fibers here either. You know, we're talking, talking about polyester and things that have microplastics on the inside. So net, net, it is very bad for the environment and it's just an expanding problem. Like, you know, we've all seen those horrific shots of landfills that are overseas in more underdeveloped countries where they're just like being swallowed up effectively by these horrible landfills. And to your point from earlier, it's just like this crisis around the production and unfortunately, you know, there's the popular trend of halls of fast fashion and things like that that just perpetuate. The problem is that, you know, like the fashion production cycle is producing more than the population could ever hope to wear in multiple decades. It's just the choice that we have. You know, you have to put out things in five colorways, you have to have all of the size range and it just is not all selling and then where does it go? So it's a production problem on one end and then it's a disposal problem on the other end and there's a lot of choices that are made in between. But however, we can make a slightly better choice. That's what we're here to facilitate. So that is the work that we do with brands as well. We will take production errors and we'll recycle them, we'll take their returns we'll help guide sort of like ongoing recycling programs internally. And then we'll help consumers make their better choices as well when they're home, you know, filling up our yellow retail bags and getting those items out of landfill. Because it is a really egregious problem that unfortunately, like, we haven't been able to turn the tide yet. Like, that's, you know, I would love to hope that we see that in my lifetime when we finally get to a point of like, you know, with all of these companies putting out, here are our sustainability goals for 2030 or 2040 or whatever it is. I hope that we can. It all eventually stacks up and we can actually say, okay, for the first time ever, landfills decreased. But that's a lot.

Jennifer Mackie (27:31)

That feels like a long, long way away. A long way away. When I was prepping for this show, I was just reading some statistics and there was something like, people have three or five times as many clothes as they did 30 years ago.

Amelia Trumbull (27:48)

Yeah.

Jennifer Mackie (27:48)

But they wear them one third as much.

Amelia Trumbull (27:52)

Exactly.

Jennifer Mackie (27:54)

And that is just kind of a compounding problem, you know. And one of the things we do is we really encourage people to buy what you love. Right. I don't believe in struggling to get dressed because I think when your day starts with, I have nothing to wear. I hate the way I look, you know, I look frumpy. I feel frumpy. Like your day's just not going well. So I believe in not struggling to get dressed, but I also believe in buying what you love, wearing what you love, and cutting out the, for lack of a better term, just crap. Right. Like that, oh, clearance T shirt. Well, it's a weird color, but it's $4. Okay, well, you're never gonna wear the T shirt that's the weird color and fits kind of badly. Like, if we can just start to cut out that level. I'm not saying don't shop. I'm not saying don't have fun with style. If people stop doing that, I don't have a business anymore. Right. But if we could just cut out the, the non essential stuff or the things that you don't love, like that top 10, 20%. First of all, you have more money in your bank account. You can afford nicer things. You can really splurge on the pieces that you do love, and then you're not forced to get rid of that stuff.

Amelia Trumbull (29:06)

Well, that's what I was gonna say. Like, I mean, we've all been guilty of, like, yes, I'm gonna buy that $4t shirt. I'll wear it to the gym or whatever the case may be. But after six months, it's like, stretched. It doesn't, you know, hold its shape. It looks weird. And you've probably seen something else you like along the way. And, you know, I like your point of, like, why not save those $4 a couple of times and add it up and then maybe you can get a $40t shirt on sale, because everything obviously goes on sale at some point. You can get a coupon or whatever the case may be and get that better quality t shirt that's $40 reduced down to 30. And then maybe that'll last you, like, two years. And, you know, it washes better and it brings you more joy as you're getting dressed. But, you know, I think it's also a lot of the time we hang on to things where we're just, like, waiting for the right event. So it's like, oh, well, you know, if there's like a 70s fancy dress party, I will have that dress in the back of my closet just in case, Right? No, and there's something, like, ridiculous about that as well, because it's like, then you also struggle to find the things that bring you joy. Like, if everything's, you know, exploded.

Jennifer Mackie (30:15)

Yes.

Amelia Trumbull (30:16)

So I think it's about, like, for me, what I try and do is buy as better quality as I can. Like, the best kind of things that's going to last, give me joy, and then also, like, let me clear out the things that are no longer serving me. So I try and be relatively militant around having a big declutter at least once a year where I'm getting rid of things that I haven't picked up in that 12 months. And then that gives me space to see what I have. It also gives me the space to have fun. We're putting together new outfits because I'm like, oh, I forgot that I had that. So I can wear it with this new thing that I bought. And, you know, that's fun to me, like, playing in my closet. And then also there's something beautifully energetic and freeing about decluttering and clearing space because it, like, welcomes in beautiful new things. And it doesn't necessarily, necessarily have to be more clothes. But maybe you can see, like, actually there's a new style of, like, chunky necklace that I really like right now. And if I just grab that, that will lift these five outfits that I already love. So there's some good ways to play in your closet.

Jennifer Mackie (31:21)

I also think closet white space is one of the Most underrated things out there. When you go into your closet, when you walk in or you open the doors and it is just jam packed and you know, you try and pull one black sweater out and all the black sweaters fall on the floor and everything is piled and shoved. It's very stressful. And I totally, I approach everything from you get dressed in the morning like this sets the tone for you. And when you get started with a pile of black sweaters at your feet and not being able to find anything and it's wrinkled, it just, it doesn't set your day up well. But when you have a little bit of space and a little bit of margin, you can breathe a little bit better and you can see, oh, I love that black sweater. And one thing I used to notice when I was working one on one with clients is the clients who had one black sweater had a beautiful black sweater. The clients who had 10 black sweaters had 10 average, average at best. Like, oh, well that one has a hole. But if I wear a pin here, no one will know. Or you know, that one's a little short or that one's a little stretched out. Like there were ten not great sweaters. Like just have the one. Because the truth is you're going to wear the one. You're going to wear the one good one you have. I don't care how many have, you're going to wear the one good one. So you know, I, I think it starts with not buying as much stuff, just buying, buying what you need. Buy what you love. Buy what you love.

Amelia Trumbull (32:44)

Exactly. And can we also have a quick shout out to laundry? Like when you have so much stuff, laundry also swamps you. And it's like that's never a good thing either because then you end up having like the whole, I don't know about you, maybe this is just my house. But it's like you end up having the whole basket that sits there all. And it's like, I know I need to fold that and whatever else. Like free yourself up. Like if you just have those few things that you really love and they work with other pieces you can mix and match. Like I just feel like that's a formula for success just in terms of mental health as well, you know?

Jennifer Mackie (33:17)

Yeah, well, when you have a ton of clothes, you don't have to do laundry as often. And that's when it becomes overwhelming. And then you get like the mount laundry situation in your living room and it's. Oh, it's rough. It's rough. Yes. Yeah, but I don't know if you've ever read the book Laundry Love. Oh, Patrick. Patrick Williams. I forget his last name. It's so good. It's so good. And it teaches you actually how to do your laundry in a way.

Amelia Trumbull (33:43)

Show notes.

Jennifer Mackie (33:44)

Yes, I will put it in there. It helps you take better care of your clothes, which is another way we can keep them looking better, longer.

Amelia Trumbull (33:52)

Yeah.

Jennifer Mackie (33:53)

All right. We're not going to get things to Goodwill and we want to recycle them. And, you know, finding you actually came from. I had done a major closet edit and I had all this stuff and I was looking for textile recycling in my area and I hadn't looked for textile recycling in a few years. I'd moved from the D.C. area here to Minnesota and it was probably five years difference. There were fewer programs available now than there were five years ago.

Amelia Trumbull (34:22)

I understand that.

Jennifer Mackie (34:23)

Have you seen that?

Amelia Trumbull (34:24)

Yeah, we're hearing that more from councils and things like that, where there may have been some programs that were set up in the past. I think partially. It's two things. One, there's not a lot of margin for some of these businesses. And so it's just not really a long term viable thing as, like, costs rise on all fronts. So unfortunately we've lost some in the industry. And then the other thing is, like, there's also been more vetting, I think as there's more education and understanding more of the problem. As you do some vetting behind the scenes, you're like, oh, maybe they're actually. Are they just shipping all of that offshore? Like, that doesn't feel good to me. So I think some programs also out there, from what I understand, have closed down because maybe they were helping things domestically, but then offshore, once things are out of your hands, like, it can be a little bit murky. So, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that some of those programs on a more local level may have gone by the wayside. But the good news is that I think there's more of an emergence around sustainability solutions in general now. And so, yeah, obviously we're here and honestly, when we were setting up the business, we had this idea of, you know, we're sending our yellow bags through the post. And we did go and talk to a lot of these companies who are very tenured doing recycling programs, and they just like literally laughed in our face, like, you think you're gonna send me, like occasional yellow bags through the post, like of mixed goods from people's houses? And we're like, yeah, what's wrong with that? And they're like, no way. Like, I only take denim or I only take white T shirts. And so it's kind of like, I think the industry was a bit ripe for innovation. And it was literally after a year and a half of Googling that we found our first recycling partner who took a chance on us and was like, yeah, okay, it's not exactly how my business works, but we could receive those yellow bags and we will open them, sort through them, and that will go into our normal, normal workflow. So, you know, we were very, very lucky that we found him. But, you know, he could see the future because he owned thrift stores and he could say, okay, that's a brick and mortar location. These guys are really tackling things from a digital perspective where you can order online. That's the way of the future. So, yeah, I think there's been a lot of innovation even in the past, you know, six years that we've been working on retold, which is super exciting.

Jennifer Mackie (36:47)

I think that's a really interesting point, that a lot of recycling programs weren't necessarily doing the work, let's just say doing the work. And, you know, I think there's a term called greenwashing, right? And it's kind of pink washing all these things where a company seems like it is helping the environment, like, that's the mission. But then behind the scenes, like, what's really happening to the clothes? And yeah, I was reading and was just in prep for this article. It was, you know, clothing, recycling, all that kind of stuff. And they were talking about one, and I think it's still around. I'm not going to mention what it is, but on their website it's like, what happens to the clothes? And, you know, we recycle this, we sell this, and the rest we donate to countries in Africa, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, hold up a second. Don't try and tell me that you are doing a good thing for your fellow man in Africa when you are just sending them all of your unwanted crap. You know, I've seen Tricky one. It is, it is.

Amelia Trumbull (37:51)

I think there are some structures, some countries, some places where those kind of programs create micro economies. Like, there's very much like a marketplace culture where a lot of secondhand goods change hands and that is good for those environments. But then there are also where you send, for example, of course they're going to print like 20,000 Super Bowl T shirts for both the teams. In case whoever wins, what do you do with the losing team? You know what I mean? So you shudder to think that there is a country in Africa where everyone's walking around with a losing Super Bowl T shirt on, you know, but there is that perception of just sort of like dumping things offshore. And obviously that's something that we, you know, are not a part of. Everything with retold is basically recycled domestically. Occasionally we will have some things, like we work with manufacturers, like they might make children's pajamas, for example, and they are very, very strictly regulated. And if they don't meet certain standards, they can't be sold here in the US but they're actually perfect PJs and they might be good for a different market who has different regulations. So we have worked with companies to facilitate. Okay, well, let's sell that to a store in Switzerland or something that has different guidelines and that of course, course it will go offshore in that respect. But yeah, we love to keep everything domestic because then we can keep our arms around it. And I think while there are like larger resale sort of opportunities offshore, there's certainly the demand for the shoddy here in the US that's being produced. So why not keep feeding that engine and then we feel better about knowing where everything's going and with our trusted partners.

Jennifer Mackie (39:33)

Well, have you seen the pictures of the beaches in Accra, Ghana?

Amelia Trumbull (39:38)

Yes. And in Chile there's also some large landfills and things like that too. It is very scary. And like, it goes back to your point of like, why shouldn't we, you know, let things go to landfill? I mean, have a look like, is that really what you want our Earth to look like?

Jennifer Mackie (39:53)

Right.

Amelia Trumbull (39:53)

And you know, who caused that?

Jennifer Mackie (39:54)

Us.

Amelia Trumbull (39:55)

That's not like a nature problem where, you know, there's global warming or what. I mean, we cause that too, but it's not like something that's being facilitated by an outside source that is humans making those poor choices and dumping that way. And it's honestly horrifying. So we talk about being a mission driven business. Like everything that we do, we're just coming back to basically the visual of those horrible landfills in our minds and be like, that's why we're obsessive about getting people to recycle things in our bags.

Jennifer Mackie (40:28)

Yeah. So for those listeners who are not familiar with the beaches in Accra, the Ocean is about 6ft deep of clothing. You can just stand on unwanted clothing in the ocean. And I'll, I'll post pictures if I can find them in the show notes. But when I saw that, I was like, oh, y'all, we gotta do better and we have to just keep one shirt. Keep one shirt, you know, don't buy one shirt. If that's all we can do. Just do a little bit. Do a little bit. If we all did a little bit, it would add up to.

Amelia Trumbull (40:59)

Exactly.

Jennifer Mackie (41:00)

To a lot. To a lot. Are you also finding, and I kind of wondered with all these textile recycling programs going away, if at the time, maybe five years ago, 10 years ago, there wasn't enough demand or use for recycled textiles. Like, okay, so now we have 10 tons of clothes and nothing to do with it. Has there been a lot of innovation with what we can do with it, or more of a need or a desire for it?

Amelia Trumbull (41:28)

And there's certainly more to come. Like, not only is there sort of the adoption of like the shoddy output for manufacturing purposes, but there's also so many, we call them like next generation fabric houses that are emerging that are able to treat use textiles to be able to be respun into a new fabric. And then the idea that that also can be then broken down again. And it is truly cyclical. Like, there's a lot of amazing, amazing things coming down the pipeline. Unfortunately, you know, we're gonna have to wait a while. It's not imminent or at scale. Like, you know, it's going to take a few years. But it is exciting that people are exploring that on, you know, sort of like a collection by collection basis and being able to do some production runs. I don't know to your question, like, if there was like a glut at any point in time, if that was the case, it was certainly before us. But I'm enthusiastic about, like, you know, when we attend conferences or meet with partners and you know, we're attached to some different industry bodies, all of the momentum is positive. What we would certainly love to see is a bit more regulatory and political support for this. Like, how do we get some bills passed that really like move the needle? Here in California, where I am, an important bill called SB707 has just been passed where that will basically fine companies who have over a certain number of sales if they don't have proper textile recycling programs place. So there's certainly that kind of thing coming down the pipeline. There's a similar bill that's being considered in New York. And I can definitely see a future where hopefully there is some more governmental support for what we're trying to do. But yeah, I think the good news is that we're all moving in the right direction. I just wanted to pick up on one other thing. You Just said before is like, let's just do a little bit. Like, a little bit more helps. So I would just love to say do a little bit and then tell a friend. Tell a friend that, hey, like, you're not throwing out your undies, are you? Like, you know, have you considered using a retail bag? I know it's kind of a bit of an intimate conversation, or you can frame it as, like, what are you doing with your old kids clothes? Or whatever the case may be. But yeah, tell a friend. Because I think that's actually the missing link. Because generally all of the data we see is once customers start recycling with retold, we have a subscription. Or you can just buy ad hoc bags. Most people start with an ad hoc bag, and then once they try the service, they love it. They want it in their home all the time, so they'll upgrade to a subscription. People love the convenience and how it all works. So we just need to get the word out there to sort of change those behaviors. So that's why I always ask, like, tell a friend or pass on a. On a bag.

Jennifer Mackie (44:14)

Yeah.

Amelia Trumbull (44:15)

And try and create, like, even your crew of, like, maybe you do a swap around of, like, some of your clothes or your kids clothes, like you did with your family members, and then also, like, everything else that's left over. Just stuff those yellow bags and get them to us so we can give them a second life.

Jennifer Mackie (44:30)

Well, I thought it would be a really good idea to order more bags than you need and just have them on hand.

Amelia Trumbull (44:37)

Yeah.

Jennifer Mackie (44:37)

Because when I get rid of stuff, I want it out of my house right now. I want it out of my house. I don't want to look at it anymore. I like White Spice, everybody. I like, you know, I don't like clutter. So if you don't have that bag and you. You're like, okay, I'm gonna go order a bag and I'm gonna wait for the bag. And then all of a sudden, sometimes your commitment to doing the right thing just, you know.

Amelia Trumbull (44:57)

Yeah.

Jennifer Mackie (44:58)

It disappears. You're like, oh, forget it. I'll just drop it off at the local recycling or the local donation place. Just have them in your closet. Have them on hand so that you're.

Amelia Trumbull (45:08)

In your laundry room as you're sorting things, and you're like, nope, that stainless too far gone. I've given it three tries, you know. Yeah. As convenient as you can make it for yourself, have them tucked away. We love saying, like, make it a practice. So we send bags quarterly with the subscriptions. So do A quarterly mini purge. Like, you don't have to wait for that big annual. I said that. I generally do, but I'm recycling all the time, obviously. But, yeah, give it a quarterly date. When your bags show up, you know, it's time. And then also maybe have a couple of, like, ad hoc ones, ones you know, you have tucked away in your linen closet or your wardrobe, so, you know you can grab them exactly as you said. So you maintain that white space.

Jennifer Mackie (45:49)

Yes, to my style circle members. Get your bags. Because we are going to be cleaning out all year. All year. We are going through things section by section. Get your bags, get your bags. I want to see lots of yellow bags in there. Because if we can all just do a little bit. Right, Do a little bit, and if we can get our couple thousand women keeping stuff out of landfills, I would be super thrilled with that.

Amelia Trumbull (46:11)

Yes, please. Yes, please.

Jennifer Mackie (46:14)

So clothes, obviously, household textiles. My curtains, my towels, all that good stuff. Do you take shoes?

Amelia Trumbull (46:22)

We do technically take shoes. We try not to encourage it too much just because our bags are compostable, they're biodegradable, and they're actually made of cornstarch. They're not recycled, poly or anything that you. You would see with other different types of bags. So the only problem is sometimes the hardware, like, breaks through the bag. Like, if you put a high heel through the bag and it's like, it's very hard to recycle that. Obviously, it could go to a thrift store for resale. But yeah, then it, like, it's challenging to break down. But if you have runners or like something soft, like a ballet flat, definitely send it to us. We'll take that. We'll take purses. Like, anything that can be resold that's good quality, you can definitely put it in the bag.

Jennifer Mackie (47:06)

We have a lot of sewists in our community. I know they're always doing fabric destashes. I see that going on a lot. What about fabrics and fabric scraps?

Amelia Trumbull (47:17)

So this is our big innovation of the year. And honestly, shout out to all of the sewers who have been obsessed with retold since the beginning. I want to say, like, in the first month that we launched, we had someone email us and say, do you take fabric scraps? Because I've got a huge bag of my scraps, my off cuts from my sewing, my quilting, and we're like, oh, okay, awesome. And we said, yes. But to be honest, the back of house management of that was never great. Because if you imagine, like, a bag that had Fabric scraps and clothes in it. Like, the fluff gets stuck on the clothes and whatever the case. So we were like, maybe could you do like a bag in. Inside our bag or whatever. But drum roll. Finally this year, we're able to find a recycling partner who was like, yep, we'll take the scraps as a standalone bag. So we now have a dedicated scraps bag, which you can buy in the same way that we have our normal classic bags. So you can buy the solo, a three pack, a ten pack, or our subscriptions. And honestly, our crafty community completely blew us away when we launched this year. We sold out in double the time than what we had forecasted, so it's gone bonkers. So please, all of your se. Quilty, crafty listeners, grab your scraps bags as well as your classic bags for all of your other items in your home. Because, you know, we're obviously here to help and we love that there is the passion around sustainability, even, you know, just for those small, like, tiny micro items. Like, we love, love that the community thinks about things that way. And then the other thing I'll just shout out is we just launched our three bags in a box. So this is the perfect little gifty item for all of your eco friends. So it has three bags inside there, and it's all packaged up in a really cute little box. So you can find that on our website, too. You know, we're always having people say, like, hey, I want to be able to buy this in stores, or, you know, how do I, like, like give the bags? Because they weren't, like, wrapped in anything. So this makes it a little bit more giftable. So we're recording this before, you know, the Christmas holidays. But if your loved one is really into sustainability, think ahead for Valentine's Day, birthdays, you know, that kind of thing. It's like a cute little gift to have in your back pocket.

Jennifer Mackie (49:35)

And Christmas will come around again, so get a jump on it, everybody.

Amelia Trumbull (49:40)

Little stocking stuff.

Jennifer Mackie (49:41)

So the three bags in a box, which is what you just showed me, those don't have the. The postage labels on them, correct?

Amelia Trumbull (49:47)

That's correct. So we wanted to get something that was like a really nice little price point so that you get the three bags for 15.50 and then the back of the box. But also the bags have a QR code, so you just scan that. You come to our label generator and then you can buy the mailing labels and just print them off as you need. So you can have these, like, in stock and then you know, if you're sending two bags at one time, you just pay for the postage then. And then you wait for the other bag later on if you, if you need. So it's sort of not as much of a commitment upfront. And it makes the bags like super gifty. So you can just sort of like hand them off and be like, here you go. It's all, all the instructions on the back and the QR code. Super easy.

Jennifer Mackie (50:28)

That's a great way for people to get started or to, you know, tell a friend. Give them a bag.

Amelia Trumbull (50:33)

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Mackie (50:34)

The last funny thing I want to share with you. As I was preparing for the episode, one of the criticisms I found of all of like the take back bags recycling programs was that people had to pay for them. And I was like, what an interesting concept that it should just be free to get rid of your stuff. Right. And it kind of goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning that don't make it somebody else's problem.

Amelia Trumbull (51:01)

Yeah.

Jennifer Mackie (51:02)

And so I think that we just need to, we need to factor in the cost, whether that is time, money, energy, whatever, of getting rid of our things, things when we buy our things. And maybe that would help us to make better buying choices too. Like, oof, okay, I can buy, you know, this $4 t shirt or 10 $4 t shirts, because what the heck, they're $4, let's get 10. Well, you can buy them, but then you got to get rid of them. Like there, there's always. You're not done at that point. I just thought it was such an interesting thing. Like people were really unhappy about the fact that they had to pay to recycle their clothing. And I thought, well, somebody has to foot the bill for it. Why not the person who owns the thing? It was just interesting to me.

Amelia Trumbull (51:45)

I agree. And we do see that resistance sometimes, to be honest. Like, not that much, because our customers, I like to put them into two buckets in a way. We have the very eco obsessed who are like the ones Googling much like yourself, textile recycling near me. And they will happily pay for a service that they trust, which is great. And then you have people who are leaning into the convenience factor. So that's a little bit of me in the beginning where I was like, how do I make this easy in my home? I will pay someone to come and do this, you know, or whatever, like, and get the help. And you know, so there's that side of it. But I think there's two things that like, you know, Facilitate that thought process of like why should I be paying for this? And one of it is what we talked about earlier. The perception of being able to just take everything to goodwill and be done with it and then you get a tax benefit. So it's kind of like they pay you. I'm getting paid for dumping my stuff there. Woo. Like double win. There's that. But also free returns with online shopping, the mindset around that and my background is E commerce. So I've seen this change in that over the last I guess 10 years we've got to a place where returns are free because God forbid there's any kind of barrier to purchase. And it just means that people don't, like you said, have any perception of the value of what they have to get rid of. It's on the company. Like they're going to foot the bill for that. It's not on me. So I can make my choices and shop and get five sizes and try everything on at home and then just send it all back and not worry about it. But it's like you're not thinking about the carbon footprint and you're not thinking about who is being paid to sort those items behind the scenes. If you've sent something in and didn't package it up well, like that might not be able to be sold again. Like there are implications downstream where there are humans who are doing work or you know also machines these days to sort and fix and resale and whatever the case may be and someone is footing the bill for that. So we're all providing a service and we need to fund that service basically. So that's why we're a for profit. So that's why we try and get as much benefit as we can out of the program. So for example, with our subscribers they can get retold rewards for every bag they send in where we unlock promo codes and things from like minded brands on our rewards gallery and give them that benefit. So even though you might be paying, we have some love that we can give you in the process as well and also feel good about what you're doing.

Jennifer Mackie (54:22)

Yeah, for sure.

Amelia Trumbull (54:22)

So that's a good win as well.

Jennifer Mackie (54:23)

I also think the connection you have to the stuff you have have bought and the stuff you need to get rid of, I think when you are more connected to it, you have more respect for it and when you have more respect for it, you make better choices.

Amelia Trumbull (54:35)

Yep.

Jennifer Mackie (54:36)

Now on the free returns thing, if companies a want to have better stock in store, so if you actually go to the Store, you can buy what you're looking for. And also they want to make sizing a little bit more consistent. That would be great. Until then, you got to keep doing the free returns. I mean, you know, like, if your size charts don't match, if they're just not based in reality at all. People ask me all the time, like, oh, do you go by sty starts? No, those are just made up. They could just be like Cyrillic Alphabet characters. They mean nothing to me. Nothing. So stores do better on that. And then we won't send so much stuff back. We all got to do our part. We all got to do our part. Okay, before we wrap up here, if you want to tell us more about the subscription, anything you want to tell us, go for it. Otherwise, tell us where we can find you.

Amelia Trumbull (55:21)

Yeah, just jump on retoldrecycling.com. we would love to give all of your listeners a code to try retold for the first time. So I'll get that over to you and you can put it in the show notes. We'll, you know, love to give a discount so everyone can try. But yeah, jump on. Like, even if you order a solo bag just to give it a try, I think start there. Like we said, start small, do something, and then you can graduate up to a subscription. But yeah, we'd love to have all of your listeners recycling with us. And you can, of course, follow us on all of the socials, Instagram, TikTok, etc.

Jennifer Mackie (55:53)

Yep, we have all the links in the show notes. So if you're driving, don't write anything down. And then the question that I like to ask everyone before we wrap up is our listeners are busy. If they take one thing away from our conversation today, what would you like it to be?

Amelia Trumbull (56:08)

Start small by recycling with retold. Like, even if it is the solo bag. And tell a friend, spread the word. Let's not increase landfills anymore.

Jennifer Mackie (56:18)

I love that. Amelia, thank you so much for your time today. This was wonderful. I hope. Hope everybody is inspired to do a little bit better this year. Just a little bit better. You don't have to walk away feeling guilty like you can never buy anything again that, you know, I'm not breaking up with Zara. I just. I'm not. Right. Will I buy less from Zara? Sure. But am I breaking up? No. But if we can all do a little bit better, buy a little bit less, and then see it through its lifespan responsibly, I think that's a great place to start.

Amelia Trumbull (56:45)

That's Perfect.

Jennifer Mackie (56:48)

I want to thank Amelia again for her time and for sharing with us how we can love clothes and love style and still act responsibly. Head over to retoldrecycling.com and use code STYLE10 to save 10% on your first purchase. When your bag is ready, don't forget to post a pic on social media and tag both Retold Recycling and Everyday Style with Jen we want to see all the good work that you are doing. Also this year in the Style Circle, we'll be editing our closets together little by little every single month so we're not doing the whole big thing at one time and I cannot wait to see a ton of yellow bags. If you are not a member yet, I would love to have you join us. The link is in the show notes along with all the other things we talked about today. While you're there, grab our free 10 piece style solution and see how 10 wardrobe basics can create over 30 stylish outfits. In the guide, we'll show you the 10 pieces you need the outfits they create and you'll get a link database so you can shop the pieces in a variety of sizes and price points. That's all I've got for you today. I'll see you next time and until then, remember that your everyday matters. So get dressed for it and that's a wrap. Thank you for listening today. If you're loving the Everyday Style School podcast, I'd like to invite you to become a member of the Style Circle. It's our monthly all access membership that gives you everything we create to make style easy so you can save time and money, have easier mornings and more confidence all day long. You get our seasonal capsule wardrobe guides, all of the master classes we offer, and our exclusive members only podcast the Everyday Style School. Extra credit plus you're invited to the Facebook community where you can get even more style support and inspiration. I would love to get to know you and support your style journey. It's just $19 a month less than the cost of a clearance shirt you're never going to wear. Come join me and make your Everyday style easier.