Podcast Summary: B2B Marketing with Dave Gerhardt

Episode #207: Strategy | Jason Lemkin on What Makes a Great VP Marketing in SaaS, Working with the CEO, and Lessons from SASTR

Host: Dave Gerhardt
Guest: Jason Lemkin
Release Date: January 2, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of B2B Marketing with Dave Gerhardt, Dave welcomes Jason Lemkin, founder of SASTR and a renowned figure in the SaaS marketing landscape. The conversation delves deep into the dynamics of hiring a successful VP of Marketing in the SaaS sector, the intricate relationship between marketing leaders and CEOs, and valuable lessons drawn from SASTR's growth and operations.

The Changing Landscape of Marketing and Employment

Jason Lemkin opens up about the evolving challenges in the marketing industry, particularly the shift in employee loyalty and the increasing demand for specialized roles.

• Struggles with Hiring: Jason shares his frustration with finding committed marketing professionals willing to engage deeply with their roles.

  "Most of the best marketers aren't willing to do the foundational work anymore." [05:11]

• Earning More with Less: He emphasizes the reality that companies now expect marketers to achieve more with limited resources.

  "We have to do more with less. There's no choice." [05:30]

Motivations and Sustaining Growth

Dave probes into what keeps Jason motivated despite his successes, to which Jason reveals a blend of personal responsibility and intellectual stimulation.

• Personal Responsibility: Jason recounts his initial motivation stemming from a sense of obligation towards his team post-acquisition of his startup.

  "I didn't want to let down the team. That's what got me started." [09:16]

• Intellectual Stimulation: Managing and scaling SASTR serves as a complex puzzle that keeps his interest alive.

  "It's a jigsaw puzzle. Everything at scale is a jigsaw puzzle. It's intellectually stimulating." [11:00]

Content Creation and Marketing Strategy

The discussion shifts to content creation strategies, highlighting the importance of authenticity and passion in marketing efforts.

• Evergreen Content: Jason emphasizes updating and repurposing existing content to maintain relevance.

  "I have a Google Doc with like 200 posts that I've updated and reposted." [20:05]

• Authentic Voice: He advocates for genuine passion in content creation over perfection, which resonates more with audiences.

  "Do whatever easiest. If you enjoy a podcast, do it because you're genuinely passionate." [24:15]

• Content Automation: Jason shares his approach to scheduling content in advance, ensuring consistency without daily manual effort.

  "I've got one piece of content on LinkedIn and Twitter that's already pre-scheduled through 2025." [26:33]

Building and Managing Events

Jason offers a candid perspective on event management, reflecting on lessons learned from organizing SASTR events.

• Event Challenges: He advises caution in scaling events, highlighting the immense workload and potential financial pitfalls.

  "If you're passionate about the forty dollar glass of wine, go do it. But be careful with scaling." [55:08]

• Strategic Focus: Jason recommends keeping events small and focused, avoiding the temptation to view them solely as revenue streams.

  "Keep them small and focused and bound what you want to do." [55:54]

Defining the Role of a VP of Marketing in SaaS

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the qualities and responsibilities that define an effective VP of Marketing in the SaaS industry.

• Core Responsibilities: Jason outlines that the fundamental role remains putting content into the funnel and nurturing it, despite evolving tools and strategies.

  "The basic toolkit of targeted outbound, drip marketing, content marketing, webinars, events, it hasn't changed at all." [34:45]

• Team Dependency: He stresses the necessity of having a competent team to execute marketing strategies effectively.

  "Everybody needs a team. You're not going to be happy if you join an early-stage startup expecting to do everything yourself." [37:36]

• Budget Considerations: Jason introduces a rule of thumb that a marketing budget north of $10 million necessitates a comprehensive marketing team.

  "If your marketing budget is north of 10 million, all this is fine. You need a CMO at 10 million." [37:28]

• Interrogating Potential Employers: He advises prospective VP of Marketing candidates to ask CEOs about their top three marketing priorities to ensure alignment.

  "Ask the CEO what their top three marketing priorities are. It's the greatest question in the world." [45:15]

Marketing vs. CRO Dynamics

The episode delves into the often fraught relationship between Chief Marketing Officers (CMOs) and Chief Revenue Officers (CROs), advocating for clear delineation of roles.

• Reporting Structures: Jason vehemently opposes the merging of marketing into the CRO role, citing loss of control and focus.

  "If the marketing reports to the CRO, it's a terrible idea. There's no control, and marketing becomes just another revenue function." [46:15]

• Role Clarity: He emphasizes that marketing and sales have distinct objectives and should operate as separate entities to maintain effectiveness.

  "Marketing should own the delivery to sales. If they report to CRO, it's too amorphous." [49:35]

Final Thoughts and Recommendations

In wrapping up, Dave and Jason reiterate the importance of strategic alignment between marketing leaders and organizational goals, encouraging both marketers and CEOs to maintain open and honest dialogues about expectations.

• Community Building: Dave shares his positive experiences with organizing events as part of building a community, aligning with Jason’s insights.

  "Use events as a community enabler. We have 3,500 paying members and plan to incorporate small events as part of our strategy." [59:07]

• Continuous Learning: Both emphasize the value of learning from each other and adapting strategies to the ever-changing marketing landscape.

Notable Quotes

• Jason Lemkin on Team Expectations:

  "Everyone needs a team. Everyone I interview needs a team. Be self-aware that this doesn't work for either side." [34:45]

• On Content Passion:

  "Pick something you are good at and then figure out how to do it programmatically." [24:15]

• On Marketing Alignment:

  "Marketing should own the delivery to sales. If they report to CRO, it's too amorphous." [49:35]

Conclusion

Episode #207 offers a wealth of knowledge for B2B marketers, especially those navigating the SaaS landscape. Jason Lemkin's candid insights into leadership roles, team dynamics, and strategic alignment provide valuable guidance for both emerging and seasoned marketing professionals. Dave Gerhardt skillfully steers the conversation, ensuring that listeners gain actionable takeaways to enhance their marketing efforts and organizational structures.

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