← The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)
The Dave Gerhardt Show (from Exit Five)
B2B Website Optimization: Real Examples and Live Feedback
01:02:16
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- [00:00]
Dave Gerhardt
Email, in my humble opinion, is still the greatest marketing channel of all time. It's the only way you can truly own your audience today. But when it comes to building those emails, well, if you've ever tried building an email in an enterprise marketing automation platform, you know just how painful that can be. I won't name names, but templates get too rigid. Editing code can break things and the whole process just takes forever when it shouldn't. That's why we love Knack here at Exit 5. Knack is a no code email platform that makes it easy to create on brand high performance forming emails without the bottlenecks. If you're frustrated by clunky email builders, you need nac. If you're tired of hoping the email you sent looks good across all devices, just test it in NAC first. And if you're a big team that's making it hard to collaborate and get approvals on your email, you definitely need nac. The best part, everything takes a fraction of the time. You can see Knack in action@knack.com Exit 5. That's knock.com Exit 5. Or just let them know you heard about Knack from Exit 5. That's us. You're listening to B2B Marketing with me, Dave Gerhardt.
- [01:12]
Scott Capuzzo
Exit 5. One, one. One, two, three, four. Exit 5. One, two, one, two, three, four.
- [01:22]
Talia Wolf
Exit 5. Hello, we are live with another Exit 5 live session. Don't call it a webinar. Where are you guys calling in from? Who's here? Throw it in the chat. We got Rebecca from England. We got Bob who's always here. He's like the best Exit 5 fan. We got Kayla from Dallas, Becky from Boston, someone from Berlin. What time is it in Berlin? Gotta be late, right? Ooh, Boston. Okay, I'm up in Salem. So you're nice and close by. Edinburgh, Scotland. Love that place. Indianapolis, Philadelphia, Seattle. Okay. I love this. London, uk. One of my favorite places. Oh, we have a bunch of people from London. Ryan's at an Arby's. I don't believe you. Oh, someone from Nigeria. Wow. Okay. Yeah, we got a lot of people in. All right. I'm awesome. Well, if you haven't been here before, here's like a little quick spiel about what we're doing today. We have brought on three absolute experts on website optimization. I'm going to get to them in just a minute. But what we're going to do is we're going to bring them on. We're going to have a couple of questions on discussion on website optimization. So what makes a website really good these days? We're going to get into what should you be testing on your website right now, what some of the biggest mistakes are. I would love for you guys to throw any questions you have in the chat or the Q and A tab, too. We make this interactive. It's a fun, don't say webinar live session. And then after we chat a little bit about some best practices. What's going on today? What our experts think we're going to do a few live teardowns. So we had some very brave people submit their websites as live examples that we could use. And we're going to go through. We're going to talk through what works with them, what maybe could be improved. We're going to have our experts give their recommendations. We're going to rate them on 1 to 10, and then we're going to ask you guys to do the same. So I'm very excited. So onto our experts today, we have three. We have Guy Leap. He is the Chief Evangelist at Webflow, which is awesome. We use Webflow at Exit 5. That's what our site is built on. I love Webflow. I wish I knew it a little better. Dale, what time does the mantle start? Dave had a great April Fool's Day post today where we're having a mantle, but this is not a mantle because we also have Talia Wolf, who is a member of the Exit 5 community. She's been on our podcast. She is the CEO and founder of Get Uplift, and she's an absolute expert in conversion rate optimization. And then we also have Scott. He does conversion rate optimization and web optimization at webflow. So we have three experts to know websites inside and out. And I'm going to bring them up in just a minute. Let me hope that my little preset scene works. Hey, everybody.
- [04:00]
Scott Capuzzo
Hello.
- [04:02]
Talia Wolf
Awesome you guys are all here.
- [04:03]
Guy Leap
Love seeing Scotland in the house. Big scotch fan.
- [04:05]
Talia Wolf
Scott, did I say your name right? Is it Capuzzo?
- [04:08]
Unknown
It is. You said it perfectly. Nice work.
- [04:09]
Talia Wolf
Okay, great. I love it. No, we're all members of Vitalia fan club, Amanda. All right, cool. So we are here to talk about website optimization. So I'm so excited. Just another little thing. If you have questions, throw them in that little Q and A tab over in the chat panel. Upvote them if you see one you like. And we're going to get into it. So we kind of chatted before this session around a bunch of topics that are, you know, really top of mind now in websites and conversion optimization and let's start off with like, what do you think one of the biggest mistakes that B2B companies make on their homepage that might impact their conversion? I know we all have a lot of opinions, so let's go. Talia, why don't we start with you over with the fan club today?
- [04:51]
Scott Capuzzo
Well, I made the mistake and I waved and now my camera is just moving around me and I'm like trying to figure it out. Sorry. So I think the biggest mistakes that B2B brands make on their homepage and really any part of their customer journey is that they're making it about themselves and they're highly focused on features, pricing, technology and really just focused on their own solution rather than what it can do to solve people's problems. And what actually happens is many people get on this hamster wheel of trying to use best practices, copy competitors and we kind of all end up looking the same, saying the same and you suddenly can probably change the logo on different on your competitors and not know who's who. So that is the biggest mistake. If you're not really making it about your customers emotions and their intent and their real drivers to buy from you, you're going to have a hard time really increasing conversions and getting those sales.
- [05:48]
Unknown
Yeah, and I want to build on that, Talia, because I love that. One thing I was thinking about on that is I see sometimes we see a lot of customers do what other their competitors are doing on their site, assuming it's working for them and that's not always the case and that's why you want to test it. Or they go completely off brand with another industry and a site they like and that's not always working. But to build on it even further, as you were saying, making about the customer, what I see a lot too of a mistake is using a lot of marketing speak, the industry jargon, as opposed to being very clear and having a value driven message. And you can get lost in that jargon where a customer come to your site doesn't really know what your value prop is or what you're trying to say. So I always think that's a good place to start and really focus on in general.
- [06:28]
Talia Wolf
I feel like they always get so vague that the product could do anything where it's just like we save you time and make you money like everyone.
- [06:36]
Unknown
Else and we have AI.
- [06:37]
Talia Wolf
Yeah, exactly.
- [06:40]
Scott Capuzzo
You've got number one solution empowered by AI there, we've got it, let's move on.
- [06:46]
Talia Wolf
All right, guy, you were going to jump in there.
- [06:48]
Guy Leap
I couldn't Agree more. Those were two of the things that were very much on my radar. How often do you look at in particular a B2B homepage above the fold and you just have no idea what they do. Like it literally doesn't explain what they do. A couple of the other ones that I think are secondary to. The two big points Talia and Scott made are thinking people scroll because a lot of the times they you get one page view and it's only above the fold. I think one of the biggest ones is thinking you need to say it all above the fold on your homepage. There should be one thing that's going to hook people and it clearly describe what you do and it should not describe everything you do. I feel like so many homepages are built by committee and they need to say everything you do and so they super long scrolling thing and in the end they end up saying not much. And the very last one is I feel like we're all too speeds feeds facts, figures to Talia's early point about features. One, we should talk about what the customer needs. To Talia's point two, we should insert some emotion into it. I think the best B2B communication is when you bring in some consumer level emotion into that storytelling which is really rare in B2B marketing.
- [07:48]
Talia Wolf
Yeah, it really is. You've talked a little bit about testing Scott. You brought this up of like you don't know if what your competitors are doing is actually working unless you're kind of in there testing it. So like what's one thing you would say that everyone listening in every B2B marketer should go test on their website in the next month or even next week. Like what's one thing that is a low hanging fruit that you find testing usually reveals a lot for you.
- [08:10]
Unknown
Yeah, I mean this is a very simple one but it's very turnkey is just CTA copy. I know it's a small thing but you know your job when someone comes to your site especially like the homepage is you want them to obviously probably book a demo so sign up on a form or get them to want to learn more. And I think the call to action that you have, how it's presented, small tweaks to that can really have a significant impact. That means, you know, identifying ways to reduce friction but also making sure that it's very action oriented. You see a lot of just learn more or see this page or whatnot but if you tweak that just a little bit it's going to I think subconsciously encourage customers to want to take that next action, in my opinion.
- [08:48]
Talia Wolf
Yep.
- [08:49]
Scott Capuzzo
So, okay, I'm going to say it. I don't think everyone should be AB testing when it comes to conversion. Yeah, I mean, I said this off camera before. I think when people think about conversion optimization, we think that that means a B testing, but not all of us can a B test. A lot of B2B companies are not. They don't have the traffic, they don't have enough conversions. And what you want to be thinking about is how can I optimize the save for my customers? So one of the things I would say is if you're looking for a quick win, is actually to go back to something that everyone hates. And that's a foundational research, figuring out who you're speaking to, why they buy from you, and what are their desired outcomes. And the reason I think this is the most important part of optimization is because it's not that call to action buttons testing doesn't work. Of course it works. It's super important. And every element on the page needs to be optimized for your customers. But I think the problem when we kind of approach ab testing from that point of elements is that we're missing the bigger picture. And when I think about optimization, I'm like, the first thing I'll ask is, what is the problem? What is the problem on the page? Maybe your customers can't immediately see that this was built for them, the type of work that they do. Maybe they can't see that this was built by people, by them. Sometimes people can't see themselves on the page. So if you can identify what that problem is by doing this kind of research, then you can go in and start optimizing every single element on the page so that you can have that impact. Because again, not all of us are Amazon that can change a headline and get amazing impact. And if we do this research, we can take a look, we can take a step back and look at the whole page and say, okay, this isn't resonating with my customers. And why is that? I'm not using the right social proof. I'm not using the right call to action buttons. The navigation's all off, and now I can optimize that. So I know that's a kind of a long winding road of saying, well do research. But it really is the most important and key part of conversion optimization, in my opinion.
- [10:50]
Guy Leap
Talia, as someone who co founded and CEOed a testing and personalization company, totally agree that not everybody should be Doing AB testing. I mean when you're getting like a hundred visitors a month, you should be doing a couple of things. One is intuition driven marketing. That intuition is driven by engaging with your customers, walking a day in their shoes. Elizabeth, the chat said go talk to a handful of customers. That'll get you a lot more than running an A B test when you've got a hundred or a thousand a month. Totally agree, full stop. The other thing you can do as a quick win is rules. If this then that or abm. ABM really is. If they're this company, do that. And I think one of the least utilized, highest impact, low hanging fruit ways to do that is to take the message you put in your carefully crafted email, your carefully crafted ad that you went and personalized and just continue that onto the website. Whatever the landing page of the homepage is, just take that same messaging, put it in the headline, it's as simple as text. If you can go further, sure, go further, optimize the whole journey on it. But just that little bit. We all spend so much time tailoring those things and then somebody gets to our website and we forget all of it. That little bit is easy to do no matter how little traffic you have.
- [11:59]
Talia Wolf
Any other thoughts on testing? We had some good questions in the channel around volume because like B2B can be a little smaller. So like what kind of obviously it's not a harder fast rule, but what kind of volume do you see usually being like good enough for an A B test?
- [12:13]
Guy Leap
In my humble opinion it depends on a couple things as we all know, right? Are your ideas so so which 70 to 90% of them are, are they really good or really bad? In which case you'll find out more quickly. And then just what do us as mere mortals, what can we handle?
- [12:25]
Unknown
Right?
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Guy Leap
Some businesses are used to hey, it took two months and that's okay. And others are like wait, it took two hours, that's not okay. To the Google point earlier. And so really it is that trade off. I would go look at standard a B testing calculator, see how much traffic you get and then say what works for the cycle in my business, 1, 2, then think how can I parallelize this? Can I do several of these at once? And third, there are kinds of machine learning out there that will let you reach statistical significance sooner, gain more learning sooner and really then go look to those to slice up the results so that you can extract more learning from every single impression. Are the places my head goes. I don't know if Tali And Scott, if your head goes somewhere else, Scott.
- [13:07]
Unknown
Yeah, I'll just go, yeah, to build on that too. You know, with an A B test, if you're looking to get statistical significance and you maybe have low traffic, another thing that's going to be important is going for those really big ideas because one aspect that's going to impact that stat sig is the delta between the variation and your control group itself. So those bigger ideas, those bigger swings is where I'd focus because that is going to probably move the needle more and that potentially will help you get earnings potentially quicker as well.
- [13:34]
Scott Capuzzo
I love that. And here's what I would add. So you can look at like generic numbers. So I don't really usually look at traffic, but more about conversions. So the generic numbers would be, well, you need to have at least 150 conversions per variation. That means you need 300 file signings a month. Let's say that you're trying to get free trials or sales or book a demo just like a generic number. But the reason I'm saying it's generic is because there are other ways for you to test. If you don't have that amount of people coming and converting. What you can do is test stuff in your ads and your email. Email is a perfect great place to test stuff. And what I love about that is that you can start by testing subject lines or even deciding, okay, I know that this is the biggest pain that my prospect is feeling right now. Before converting, I'm going to write two emails and I'm going to send it out to my nurturer list and I'm going to see how to correspond. Maybe they come up, maybe they sign up, maybe they just click on an email. That way you kind of start getting indications to what they care about and you can start creating that content on your website. Will it be statistically significant? Know. But it's a great indication and a great way to start doing these little tests without feeling that I don't have the big numbers that, you know, the big brands have.
- [14:56]
Talia Wolf
Giselle had a really good question in the chat. Like what do you consider a good conversion rate for a B2B page? I know this probably varies across like homepage and landing page and different pages. But let's get into that a little bit. What do you guys think?
- [15:07]
Guy Leap
You know what a good conversion rate is? One that's better than the one you had yesterday? Oh, that's really the game we're playing. It is not relative to others. Now if your conversion rate site wide for the Thing you care about is a tenth of a percent. All right, that's, you almost certainly have room to grow. And if it's like Multiple single digit percent, like 3, 4, 5%, you're almost certainly doing great. But like to say that, you know, what good is half a percent, 1%, 2%, 2 and a half? Like it depends is my opinion. And really the game you're playing is, can it be better than I was yesterday?
- [15:38]
Scott Capuzzo
I, I was just gonna say if we have Amanda, if she's still here, I'll take a page, you know, out of her book and Rand's book, which is basically zero click marketing. One of the things I was just in Munich at a conference and one of the things that Rand said and I just love Rand Fishkin and I just love, and I think Amanda, you've said this multiple times is as long as the number keeps going up, you know you're in the right trajectory, right? So at the end of the day, it's hard to measure a lot of things. People are coming in from different ways. If you look at paid, if you look at organic, you look at email, you look at all the things that no one tells you what they are and you don't really know what's going on because data is problematic to say the least. So I think as long as you keep seeing that number going up, you know, okay, whatever I'm doing right now, that's working, let's keep it, let's keep going. Not working. Okay, let's start optimizing, let's start adding some stuff, let's do more campaigns and see how everything is working without the specific attribution and the specific numbers. But just seeing that kind of, yeah, the group going up, I guess, Yeah.
- [16:41]
Unknown
I would agree with that. The only thing I would say to add is, you know, understanding what is that? What is the, like the percent increase that is right for the business for you, and that's going to go to the research and understanding it. Of course, a 3% increase, and I'm making that up randomly for a very small conversion rate is pretty significant, but that could be pretty small in general for a very large company or a high traffic site. So that percent increase is also going to, I hate to say it, but depend on the business itself and the site itself as well.
- [17:07]
Talia Wolf
I love the it depends answer because it really does for everything you're marketing.
- [17:11]
Guy Leap
One other thing I'll add is, yeah, go for it. It also depends on what you need, right? Like if your conversion is newsletter signup, that level of commitment is much smaller than purchase and ask for demos in between. And so what might be. You should expect your newsletter sign up to have a higher conversion rate than your demo request, which should be higher than your purch.
- [17:29]
Scott Capuzzo
And then you've also got the difference between general conversion rate, but you know, conversions. I'm not going to use conversion rate. Not going to get into that term today. But okay, you've got the general conversions, but then you've got ICP conversions and those matter more. So, you know, we've recently ran an A B test for one of our clients in their homepage navigation, like their website navigation. And what we saw is that there was a huge increase in signups, but there was a 6% increase in ICP signups. That was brilliant for us because we knew that we were getting more and more the right people in there. So there's always a lot of different ways that you can look at the data and at the end of the day you just want to make sure you've got the right people. So sorry, Giselle, you're getting very like, it depends kind of on you.
- [18:14]
Unknown
I still want to add to that too because going back to that, if you have like take a tour versus talk to sales, you're going to get a different conversion rate. Talk take a tour is a much more lower barrier to entry in that aspect. But then you want to look in the back end like how does that lead to actual. An actual sale and so on. So if your end goal is conversion rates, then yeah, use a lower barrier to entry type of CTA in that regard. But if you're trying to drive an actual sale, then you got to balance the two in that aspect as well. So now I think keep in mind as we go down this theme of it depends of course.
- [18:43]
Talia Wolf
Yeah, let's talk about.
- [18:46]
Guy Leap
We're going to be able to look at the word ICP the same again after Sagan's comment there.
- [18:51]
Talia Wolf
Yeah, thought it had something to do with insane clowns.
- [18:56]
Guy Leap
That's absolutely awesome.
- [18:57]
Talia Wolf
Posse or ideal customer profile? You never know. I'm sensing a T shirt. Let's talk CTAs for a minute. We've kind of like touched on them around, you know, different types of copy. And we had another question in the chat around, like how many. The kind of differentiation between ones that you have on your site. Like you could have get a demo, learn more, which is not great. And also this balance of like we like the action focus but sometimes I feel like as marketers we get in that like creative Versus clarity issue where we're like, it's not clear what pushing this button is going to do. Is it going to like send an email? Am I signing up for something? Am I watching a video? Am I downloading a document? So kind of what is your perspective on what makes like a really high performing CTA and you know, one that's probably going to get ignored?
- [19:41]
Guy Leap
I'll take a crack. I think a couple of things. What's the mindset of your visitor, your prospect on that page in that moment? Can you tell what level of commitment they're ready to make to what Scott was saying earlier and offer them options? I saw In a previous exit 5 teardown someone was showing, Literally they would ask, are you just learning? Do you want a demo you're ready to buy? Like having that in your mind? One, two, have it actually be visible. Like, I'm surprised how many people will have like a button and then a text thing next to it and the text thing like you don't see. And three, on clarity versus creativity. In my humble opinion, clarity is far more important because if you're creative and not clear, nobody knows what they're getting to. Our earlier discussion about what's the biggest thing people do wrong on B2B homepages, if you're clear and then you can layer on creativity to the emotion point earlier, awesome. But I take clarity over creativity. Scott.
- [20:33]
Unknown
Yeah, I'll say I agree with that. Clarity is extremely more important. And the creativity comes in how you come across with that clarity overall. And then from a CTA building on what guy said even further. We had a customer who did kind of a test on this, more around personalizing that cta. A very small change. This doesn't mean using technology. It's more of saying like, instead of book demo, book your demo. Going back to tell your point, make it about them even within your CTA can go a long way in capturing their attention and making them want to take that action, whether it's going to a product page or taking the next step to actually sign up.
- [21:06]
Scott Capuzzo
So yeah, just sitting and thinking about what creativity really means. And I think that oftentimes what happens is you get when you're thinking about, okay, I want to optimize my landing page, I want to optimize my homepage. The designer comes in with a wireframe and they kind of design something and you've got a bunch of C level people you know in the company saying, okay, this competitor is doing that and this company's doing that. And I love this tan Stuff And I love and what happens with creativity is you're thinking more about like, how can I, how can I be new, how can I be modern? What will look good? And that is a big issue because you're putting the design before copy. And one of the biggest rules that we follow is that always comes first. Messaging always comes. You want to rate the story that you're trying to tell about your customers, essentially where they are right now, what are they struggling with, what have they tried that hasn't worked? What is the solution? Why should they care about the solution? Why is it actually going to work? And you're writing this stuff out, including your call to action button. So it's very clear what will happen when I click on this button. What is the desired outcome? Will I get a desired outcome? And when you create that copy, then you can wireframe and then you can start adding in all the different creative elements around it. So I'm kind of echoing what you said, Guy and Scott, really just about thinking first about who are you speaking to, what are you trying to tell? And really, in high converting pages, you need to think about the messaging design, amplify message and ux, making it easy to get the result that they're looking for. So the button should be so clear, when I click on this, I'm going to get this result. Now I finally won't feel X or people will love me because I will be the goat person, whatever that is for you. But I think, yeah, fast messaging designed to amplify it and then ux.
- [22:59]
Unknown
Yeah, I think Sharon in the chat highlighted they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. And I couldn't agree more in that aspect. They complement each other and work together.
- [23:06]
Scott Capuzzo
Exactly.
- [23:07]
Unknown
Good way of putting it.
- [23:09]
Talia Wolf
All right, let's do one more question before we get into the teardowns. I think this is a good one. Personalization, you know, what is your take on it? When does it actually like enhance the experience? When does it go too far? When do we kind of think it's something we need to do as marketers and we take it way too far even though, you know, we're not the Googles, it's not getting billions of views a day. And what kind of personalization should we be doing? How should we thinking of that? Who wants to dig in first? Guy, I see you have thoughts.
- [23:40]
Guy Leap
In my humble opinion, personalization almost always enhances the experience because. Or if it is done with the intent of meeting the prospect where they are on the journey to give them the thing they need, that is actually Valuable to Talia's point a minute ago, that it's clear that's what it's going to do for them. To Scott's point earlier, that it's in their self interest. Great. Like that's all that is truly value add. In my humble opinion, it becomes too much, too creepy when you use something that's overtly individually personal, but you don't have the right to know that. So if I put welcome Coca Cola on the homepage because I did reverse IP lookup or welcome Talia because I did some other thing that I societally I think is creepy and probably will be for a long time, I think societally we've gotten a lot more comfortable with, oh, I got an email to me, I'm a Coca Cola employee and then it welcomed me as Coca Cola because I clicked on my Coca Cola email to the site. Okay, that's okay, like roll back the clock a while maybe that was not okay. I think we all are comfortable with that now. And so in my opinion that's why I think like if you personalize by industry, personalized by use case, or personalized by S and P bid market enterprise, it's almost always safe because if you got it wrong, it's not the end of the world and it's not creepy. It's like serendipitous if you got it right or like one last one and then I'll turn it over. Like logo farms. So many sites have them, I think they're great social proof serendipity. If you did reverse IP lookup and half the logos are the competitors the same industry or the person showing up, that's awesome. If everyone was the competitor. Now that's creepy. As an example, I want to add.
- [25:10]
Scott Capuzzo
To that and I'd say I think when people think about personalization, we think about tools like what are the best tools that we can use to personalize the experience? But there's actually a lot of ways you can do it not using tools, but just in the experience you're providing. So I mentioned the navigation test that we did previously and that was really about. And actually Guy, you also mentioned this before about that website teardown where they asked you, where are you in the journey? Are you ready for this? Do you want to do this? Are you trying to learn? That is also a type of personalization. And what we did with the menu in the navigation is we essentially said, okay, this company is speaking to a very specific person that does a very specific job. And what we did is we personalized the menu not so it says oh hi guy. But what it does is it says, look, we know you do client work, you work in an agency. Here's how other agencies use it. Here's the use cases, here's some case studies. Here are the features for agencies and why they care about them. Here are the integrations we know that agencies care about. And when you do that, you are personalizing the experience without all the fluffy tools and the expensive tools that take million years to onboard and no one ever uses them except good morning. Which drives me nuts. So I think ultimately when you're thinking about personalization it is wonderful, but it doesn't have to be so hard to do. It just again goes back to do I know who I'm speaking to and how can I make the experience so clear that when they land on my homepage they know where to go, where to get the information that they need and what to click on.
- [26:45]
Dave Gerhardt
This episode is brought to you by Webflow. If you're a B2B marketer right now, you're probably being asked to do more with less. Less budget, fewer resources, tighter timelines, and you're expected to somehow grow pipeline anyway. They don't say do less, but also we're shrinking the go. They say do less, but do more. That's why more teams are switching to webflow. Webflow is the website experience platform that helps you consolidate your stack, reduce program spend and move faster. Instead of juggling a dozen tools and waiting on developers, webflow gives marketing and design teams the power to build, launch and optimize sites all in one place with no code flexibility, dev level control built in, a B testing, SEO, localization and AI tools. They've got everything you need to turn your website into your highest performing channel. So you can check out webflow right now@webflow.com exit5webflow.com exit5 bonus. Since you like to get marketing examples, I often reference them as a great marketing website for someone who sells to a bunch of different Personas. So check them out. Webflow.com exit5.
- [27:56]
Unknown
Yeah and say I love that too. And then that goes to like got to your point. You know, industry, company size and things along those lines. You know, just simple messaging that speaks to them and their pain points. Because someone from an enterprise company is going to have a different challenge than someone from an SMB and adding language that just speaks to that. A high level that's turnkey can easily do that and that could go a long way. And then tell you to your point too. Without using tools A simple quiz too of just asking some of these questions upfront. And the beauty of that is it's not creepy because you're being transparent how you got that information where they're more going to. They're going to resonate with whatever comes next because they offer that information as opposed to the other way around. So that is a great way to get around any creepiness but to go deep in a personalized experience.
- [28:38]
Guy Leap
And Scott, you and I know well a company called Laserway which publicly said, hey, they offer beauty services often using lasers like, oh, I don't like this spot, I want to get rid of it. I'll use a laser. Okay. On their site they had a full a thing you would fill out to register for the service. They added steps to it. Typically a terrible idea, except those steps were tell me more about the service you need, folks. Gladly did it. Conversion rate went up because they thought they were going to get a better recommendation at the end. Scott, to your point.
- [29:07]
Unknown
Exactly. And you're also they're willing to do it. And this always we see this with form fields. If you had too many form like fields, you may lose them. But if you're showcasing the value that they get out of submitting certain information, then they may be more likely to give you more of that information and then obviously you can use that to further personalize. So yep, you're exactly right.
- [29:25]
Talia Wolf
Yeah. Amanda had a great point in the chat. Amanda Natividad around. She used to market to HR and benefits leaders. Instead of saying like hi Bob, hi guys. She would say hey there overachiever. And I love that point because it's like speaking to their identity, like who they view themselves as. And I do this in our newsletter sometimes where I'm like hey, like you're probably ambitious like you're not subscribing to this newsletter because you're a non ambitious marketer to learn how to get better. And it always resonates really well. So I like that version of personalization too which Talia, as you said, like comes down to knowing the person you're talking to.
- [29:58]
Guy Leap
Danielle, can I add another example?
- [29:59]
Talia Wolf
Of course.
- [30:00]
Guy Leap
We worked with this company called Stellan Dot that sold women's jewelry and on their checkout page they we together tried everything. All the rights, all the things you would think about, cross sell, upsell drive more conversion, make it simp. The single most effective thing they did. After all of that, add the words this looks great on you. I love that because it was in the mindset of the person there. It was Aspirational. It was positive. It was complimenting, like the overachiever thing. Right. It was. It spoke to their audience. And nobody could have predicted that in advance, which is why we do the testing.
- [30:32]
Scott Capuzzo
Yeah. So one of the things I can speak to is what we've identified is that specifically in B2B, there are two emotional clusters. So groups of emotions that people are motivated by. One is social image and one is self image. Self image is how do I want to feel about myself after hiring a solution? More competent, more proud, maybe. I want to feel like I can do anything. Social image is about how I want others to think about me. I want them to think I'm the go to. I want them to think that I deserve that promotion. I want them to think, how about how important I am for the organization? And we found through really hundreds of AB tests that this works again and again and again when you make it about that. So, for example, even for a QA software we worked with. So it's a company that created software for QA analysts. Right. And one of the most interesting things that we identified is that these people felt like no one understood their work. No one cared about what they did, that they were just an annoying kin. Like they were trying to. People around them were trying to launch something on their website. And here comes the QA analyst and like, oh, no, stop everything. Nothing's working. I need to find the hugs. By simply optimizing the copy around, everyone will know how important you are for the company. It's not. That's not the wording that we use. Right. That's copy. But weaving that into social proof, weaving that into our emails, putting that on the homepage and saying, we know that you are significant, that changed everything. So, yeah, just to echo everything you.
- [32:09]
Unknown
Guys are saying, I love that because it's really focusing on the emotional aspect. I think a lot of B2B sites talk about the facts or what we do and so on, which is extremely important. But there's not enough exploration around that emotional identity of your prospect in that way, which that does. And that can go as we see it with E Commerce a lot, obviously, and general advertising. That emotional side is extremely important in B2B that I think we tend to forget.
- [32:32]
Talia Wolf
I love that. All right, cool. I'm gonna drive us into the teardowns. What do you guys think? Should we get into those chat. Should we do it?
- [32:40]
Guy Leap
Let's do it.
- [32:40]
Talia Wolf
All right. They're gonna say yes anyways. All right, cool. So we have some fun examples today. I am excited So I just took screenshots of the homepage. So we're just gonna look at the homepage and we got a little bit more information around who they were. And I'm just gonna go, all right, contact monkey. First up, I am going to put the link to the page in the chat. There you guys go. You can go check it out. This is what they told us. Target audience, internal communicators and organizations with more than a thousand employees. So like let's think big enterprises, industry agnostic. Except government, which I think means that they don't probably sell to government. Probably all red tape around that, I would imagine. Looks like they have a lot of icp. I'm not going to read this out because I'm sure you guys are going to get sick of my voice. But they gave us some stats too, which is great. Average weekly website traffic, almost 14,000 unique visitors. That is primarily driven organically from the blog. Homepage gets 1400 visitors weekly conversion rate on the homepage, 1.4%. They're in the middle of a change, so 90% of their traffic comes from SEO blogs. But they're having some issues with the new AI. Like they kind of over index on SEO maybe, but now they're trying some other channels. Email, paid events, things like that. They regularly ab test their hero headlines images and update the homepage three times a year. That is a lot. I don't know that I've ever updated a homepage that much. But 2024 was the worst traffic year since launching in 2018. I'm guessing that has a little bit to do with AI and. Yeah. All right, cool. So here's what the homepage looks like. What do we think? Experts? Let's talk about what's standing out.
- [34:13]
Scott Capuzzo
I wanted to ask. Sarah said in chat, I love their value prop on the homepage. Are you on desktop or mobile? Because they have a different one on desktop and a different one on mob, which I appreciate by the way. Their mobile is. Chaos is inevitable. Internal communications confusion. Is it.
- [34:29]
Guy Leap
Which I they are testing because I got that one on desktop.
- [34:34]
Unknown
Yeah. I don't see it on mobile online. So there you go.
- [34:36]
Scott Capuzzo
Okay. This is an A B test.
- [34:39]
Talia Wolf
This is awesome.
- [34:40]
Scott Capuzzo
Something.
- [34:40]
Talia Wolf
He's here.
- [34:42]
Scott Capuzzo
What do we think?
- [34:44]
Guy Leap
So I really like the 80 second explainer video. I thought that was great. I thought the hero was busy. There are five layers of things before you get to the cta. The version I saw, I actually liked the the stuff above the big bold and below the big bold. The internal communication software and connect Your employees and track campaigns along with something further down felt clearer to me than the Big Bold Thing. The Big Bold Thing was catchy, but I didn't understand what the it was, who it's for, who it's for and what it does. And the last thing was the Loco farm was impressive. It was below the fold, at least for me on desktop. And so those were some opportunities I thought were there in the midst of having clearly a lot of good content and a lot of well thought out stuff on the site was my initial read.
- [35:34]
Unknown
Yeah, I'll say. Just building on that, I did like the video as well. I thought it was clear as to what they do and the value proposal. One recommendation there is getting people to actually click on that video. In other words, I don't know what I'm getting or I'm not sure what this video is going to provide me. So whether it's copy or once again a CTA understanding that is important, especially as people are busy, are they going to invest the time? So I think that'd be an important thing. One thing I did like too, if you scroll down is they had the quantitative metrics proof points showcasing that what success looks like with, with the product. I think that is extremely important, especially when you're aligning those metrics to your target audience and how they're evaluated in their own job and saying hey, I can increase on these metrics that are important to me that can go a long way. The only thing is maybe push that higher on the page. Going back to the guy you said earlier, are they going to actually scroll down that far? So I think there's a lot of opportunity. The one thing too I thought was interesting is we as Daniel mentioned that they update the homepage three times a year and they do a lot of testing the hero. I think that's an opportunity for potential personalization. Especially if you have so many, so many different ICPs in that aspect. Instead of testing, why not personalize a lot of that and then you're probably spending less time on, you know, iterations, things like that. So there was a couple things but overall that was pretty, pretty solid site overall.
- [36:47]
Scott Capuzzo
So I love all the suggestions about the messaging and I agree, I think some of the copy is really strong and some of it is kind of buries the lead. And I do agree with you Scott, that I think if you're already updating it three times a year, personalization may help. While I do appreciate lots of logos and testimonials, I think one of the most important jobs Social proof has to do is actually solve specific roadblocks or concerns people have with your product. So it's less about, you know, this is an incredible product and more about we know that people are worried about X. So we use social proof to dismantle that or we use logos that look like you and the work that you do so that you can feel comfortable that we serve companies like you. It does seem like obviously you have a huge icp of different customer profiles so the homepage is always a catch all and a little harder to personalize. The one thing I would say is I think that you could definitely optimize the visuals that you're using. I mentioned this before when we were talking about messaging coming first and then design has to amplify your message. I think one of the most important things is that when you have a claim you want to use a visual to actually prove it. So less screenshots and more here's exactly how this would happen and how it's going to look like. And I also think there's a lot of calls out call out for a page that could definitely be prioritized and maybe moved higher on the page. But yeah, I mean all in all it looks really good and cool.
- [38:29]
Guy Leap
Talia, to your point, building on the call outs on the page, when looking through the page scrolling down I saw three or four or five different potential calls to action. And in my humble opinion being really clear, like here are the two things I want someone to do on this page. I'm making up two, it could be one, could be three, but like and to have them everywhere. Like I noticed for example in the very top that ribbon their start trial, that's actually a great thing that may actually be more appealing to somebody than book a demo because they don't want to talk to a human, they just want to go in and use it. But I think that's the one place that shows up and down below there there's join the weekly demo, not the one on one demo. And so I think some rationalization there may help. It's clear a ton of energy went into giving people the path that's right for them.
- [39:13]
Scott Capuzzo
Yeah. And I would add that I guess my question is going to be like how much testing is too much testing. And I know this sounds funny as like a conversion optimizer saying this but there's so many different tests and like you all called out so many calls to actions I'm not seeing see email builder, see sending options, see surveys and feedback, see email analytics, see why People love us not getting all of the different calls to actions that you mentioned, guy. And some of them are below, some of them are higher. And I just think it might actually be easier for you to determine if a page is working or not if there was a clearer strategy. As you said with like, there's one call to action. Now, I do know that in B2B it is so hard when you have appealed gmotion, but you also have the sales function and everyone's kind of like, we want free trials, but we also want demos. I would say that it looks like the book a demo is the main call to action here. I would argue that any other button, any other call to action should maybe become more of like text underneath the main call to action. So it's more of a clickable text. And I would also say that if we just get into UX for a moment, Ghost buttons are really easy to miss. Ghost buttons is a clear button. It's a CTA that basically has no color. It just has like this frame around it and then it's too easy to kind of miss. So if people are missing it, maybe you don't need it. They're all have the same call to action throughout the whole page with the same copy. So it's very clear, oh, I see a green button. That means I book a demo. And underneath that you could say see sending options or see email builder so that you're always telling them to do the same thing. But under the button you can always say read more. And I like that because then you can also track and see, okay, what's the content that people care about most? What should I prioritize on the page? But right now there's just so many calls to action that it's really hard to focus on what I should be doing and what action you want me to take.
- [41:18]
Talia Wolf
There's a really good question in the chat I want to throw to for a minute because I think this is a good example. It's from Heather a little while ago. We'd love the panel to talk about writing for people versus search engines and finding a good balance because there was the call out here in the screenshot of like, it says engaging internal communications from your Microsoft Outlook inbox. Like anyone who uses Microsoft. Like, you could probably just say Outlook. Like, you could say, like, eliminate Microsoft and Inbox entirely. But it might be SEO driven that someone's looking for like Microsoft Outlook. So how do you kind of find that balance in conversion of like SEO, but also like talking like a person not A an SEO optimizer robot.
- [41:53]
Guy Leap
My opinion is you should optimize for the person first and foremost and then weave in the words. If you're getting to the point where something feels unnatural, then it's probably not worth putting in there. And as Thalia said very well before, it depends, right. If that difference. If you're an SEO driven business in some businesses like Live and Die by SEO, then maybe you're willing to make more compromises. But I think for most B2B businesses, speaking clearly, in particular, when we're talking Hero homepage, right. We're not talking about the blog, we're not talking about your glossary, your other things that are built to drive traffic to the page, we're talking about Hero homepage. In my humble opinion, talking to the human is where you should overweight in that context.
- [42:32]
Scott Capuzzo
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I also would also say people don't really search that way anymore. And what happens is, you know, you maybe put that term in once but then you kind of revise your search. So I would definitely think about the people and how people search versus those keywords. Should you have that keyword? If it's really important, yeah, have it. But it shouldn't. It doesn't have to dominate. It shouldn't be the number one thing on the page. And also if you have that on the page, it could be lower and you could have, you could do it just in Microsoft as or Outlook because again, you should be speaking and using the jargon and the word that your customers are using. If that is the key phrase that they use. Then I would include it a hundred percent. But not because it's searchable but because it's the term that people use to get onto your website and are looking for.
- [43:23]
Talia Wolf
Go ahead, Scott.
- [43:24]
Unknown
No, I just want to reemphasize, tell you I love the point of like if you are going to include certain copy potentially further down the page is a good way so it maybe doesn't interfere in that regard. But always have your customer first. I would totally agree with that.
- [43:36]
Talia Wolf
All right, let's rate this baby scale of 1 to 10. One is like drop it. Let's restart. 10 is like perfect. No notes. This is the best thing I've ever seen. Chat, you guys do it too. All right, guy, I'm going to call you out first. What's your rating?
- [43:50]
Guy Leap
I. I appreciate all the testing and customer centricity that went into this. I was more 6, 7 because of some of the opportunity to, to tighten some of the various calls to Action. But that's. That's where I landed.
- [44:05]
Talia Wolf
What about you, Scott?
- [44:06]
Unknown
I gave it a 7. Similar reason. I think there's opportunity to tighten things, but also there's a lot of content on it, too. So is there opportunities to clean that up, maybe tease it out and then have more of that encouragement to get customers that hook, really, to get customers to want to learn more?
- [44:22]
Scott Capuzzo
Can I not write what I don't like? Well, the only reason I don't. I don't like that is because I know that obviously people put a ton of effort into this and there's so much politics that go into it too. And like, hey, Crystal might have had some amazing ideas and the designer said, no, I don't know. I'm making this up. I'll give it a seven. Just because everyone else.
- [44:44]
Talia Wolf
Crystal wants the roast. Seven is really good for us. If you were at our event a couple of weeks ago, you know, like, 7 is like as good as a 10 on the exit 5 scale. But, yeah, I think I would be.
- [44:56]
Scott Capuzzo
There too, out of the three. It's the best I can say that.
- [45:01]
Talia Wolf
All right, great. We're going to get to the next one. All right, next up is Stream Tech. This is a company that does transport logistics. They work with managers and planning teams. They are at owners of fleet operations. I'm going to pop. Take a second and pop this in the chat. You guys can look at the website as well. They got 104,000 impressions, 1.6 thousand clicks in the last three months. And they get about 30 to 40 inbound opportunities, demo requests per month, and they close 20% of those. They change their pricing about a year ago. Opt numbers have dropped, but value and quality has increased, which is what we like to see. And now here is the screenshot of the homepage. So let's just go back quickly, see what they're talking to. Transport and logistic managers, planning teams, finance and senior management teams who are looking to improve and or optimize their logistics operation. All right, first impressions. Tommy, I'm going to you.
- [46:00]
Scott Capuzzo
Okay. So much to say. I think I'll talk about design for a moment just because I don't know that's the first thing that came up. I have a lot to say about messaging, but generally what I would say is this company is doing what a lot of B2B companies do and they don't know what their hero image should look like. They slap a screenshot on the homepage that means nothing. I think at this point, we all know that you could probably Use almost every software on desktop and on mobile. And I don't see the value in showing a screenshot of your product, especially when there's nothing in it. So it's doing nothing for your messaging, it's taking up space. So I think when you don't know what visual to use, you shouldn't use a visual. You should start thinking about what are the images that I can use of people or maybe a screenshot or a video that, that will amplify what I'm trying to say. However, as I mentioned regarding the messaging, we're also kind of more of a general theme here where it's not about the customer, it's about what you do. Streamlining your deliveries and collections doesn't really tell me who you're speaking to, what this is about. Are you. It could be so many things, this could be so speaking to so many different types of companies. And again, when you look at the subhead, it's your features, real time tracking, notifications, optimized route planning. So you're telling me what the product does. And here's what I will say to that because most companies do this, so you're not alone. And this is not me roasting you for the sake of roasting you. What we found from doing a lot of user testing is that when people are shopping for a B2B product, they come to a website, they come for the search and they open three different competitors and they have a shopping list. They know what features they want, they know who it's going to serve. And once they've done that and they've looked at the pricing and they all check out and they're the same and you all have the features now, they're looking for that emotional connection and the what's in it for me. And if you're not doing that on the website, especially in the hero section, people are just going to jump to the next tab. So this stuff is important, it just doesn't belong in the hero section. And now I will let other people speak.
- [48:18]
Unknown
Yeah, I would say you kind of summarized a lot in a more articulate way of what I was thinking. The same way, the main thing is like, at least from a copy perspective, it feels very formal and not very conversational to that point. In general, like for instance, you have the sections and it just says key features or delivery success, user benefits. It's just a header that doesn't really add much value there. And the headers themselves are all just, you know what the product is as opposed to that emotional connection. That pain point, the value that it provides to make it more conversational where I think there's a lot of opportunity to improve there. One section I did like that could be expanded out is the. There's. If you scroll down, there's the why do people love Stream? Because here we are talking a little bit more about the customer itself. The only thing I would want to tweak that instead of being why do people. Why do. If you're talking to C Suite it's why does your. Why will your team love Stream and kind of use that type of language? That could be very valuable but with these as well it could be pretty generic. So this goes to potential including certain quantitative metrics or something on that prove out the value so they can actually see it and have it be more tangible. But yeah, I think just overall there's just opportunity to make it more. We'll say conversational more.
- [49:30]
Guy Leap
So I agree with what both of you said. It didn't strike me as harshly because I wondered if this audience is more serious, if this audience, this is the right tone for them. That was a guess. I do not know the audience. 1, 2. I completely agree that I feel the same way as we did on the previous site Streamline or delivers and collections. I didn't know what that meant. I did feel like the words above and the words below were very clear and I feel like the very end of that paragraph and several people said it in chat plan less, deliver more is the benefit. I was like plan less. That seems like I'll be willy nilly. I thought when I because it was repeated further down on the page I was like spend less time planning more time delivery which is the thing that generates revenue. Being crisp on that. If that were the center that where Streamline is, I think that would be more powerful. I agree with Talia on the image on the right that folks don't need to know that it's mobile and desktop. They assume that and that there the 60 second video like maybe that would be really helpful. I would experiment know maybe it is looking at people rather than at the product. Maybe that would be better. I like that the logo farm was above the fold and it's interesting when I read the very small text about the logo farm I was like that is really clear. I understand this better. My opinion is the visual language is a bit dated. That's my opinion. That's like subjective. That may be spot on for this audience and the CTA in the menu bar. I'm going to assume that actually takes you to a place where you can book it live and see the calendar.
- [50:57]
Talia Wolf
I think it's a great thing doesn't which I just clicked on it it goes to one of those forms which I don't like because I think I'm going to a calendar. And someone else said this in the chat too. I think it was Heather. Sorry to interrupt you.
- [51:09]
Guy Leap
No, no, I'm glad you did. And the last thing is given the low traffic I do think Scott brought this up last time on the last one but like there is a real opportunity to go ABM assuming this world is not, you know tens of thousands of companies and or continue the messaging from your ad or email when people get to the page.
- [51:30]
Scott Capuzzo
I also wonder if you scroll the page and you see these people on the screenshots of the map if that's like if that these people actually represent the customer because I'm not sure that they do. When you think about a fleet I'm not sure that these are the people wearing what they're wearing using computers the way they're using I'm not sure that that's what you imagine when you so.
- [51:53]
Guy Leap
To your point Talia, I feel like I'll just say I've been guilty. I think many of us have been of like that's what was available and they put it on the right back and to instead actually take real pictures of real customers not as beautifully perfectly made up clothes, not as perfect not looking exactly the way they right. It's. It's not this stage photo and putting those on top of the map to your point Talia, I think actually may help people be like yeah these are my people, they understand me.
- [52:19]
Scott Capuzzo
Yeah. I think again there's a lot. It's really hard to choose good images and especially B2B and when you have a software and it's heavy and there's a lot of things you want to really explain it makes it hard to know what images you should be choosing. But I do think that even when you are using stock photos that there's a way to choose something that maybe resonates a little more than what we're seeing here because it's does the feel I think it's part of the outdated part is that it feels stock image. But again I do think that if we remember that people landing on this page know what features they're looking for so they'll land on the homepage, they'll go to the features, they'll go to pricing, they'll see that it all checks then they'll Come back to the homepage, although go to a different page. Maybe four. They will be looking for the recognition of who is this for? Is it for companies like mine? Is it for people that do the same work as I do? What is the outcome of this? And I agree. I think the plan less deliver more is the value prop but it gets buried.
- [53:24]
Guy Leap
Agreed. And Danielle, I know we're in time. I just wanted to share one last thing. You can't see from the screenshot, but playing with this site and the next one, I appreciated that stream. The chatbot appears without sound and only when your mouse is idle for a while. If you're moving around, it doesn't appear. I thought that was very thoughtful. The next site. I hate when the chatbot shows up, makes noise and then keeps doing that on every page even after turn it off.
- [53:50]
Talia Wolf
I and then it like the top too with like moving text was like new message. I hate that.
- [53:56]
Guy Leap
Unsolicited. Yes. I find that very. It makes me leave.
- [54:00]
Unknown
And when you have a lot of tabs open, you don't know where it's coming from is the thing that makes me mad as well. So I agree with that.
- [54:06]
Talia Wolf
All right, rapid fire. Rate this one one to ten. Talia, you go first. I'm putting you in the hot seat to take us off.
- [54:16]
Scott Capuzzo
Five.
- [54:17]
Talia Wolf
Five. All right. All right. Thought you go.
- [54:19]
Unknown
I gave it a seven.
- [54:21]
Talia Wolf
Seven. Really?
- [54:22]
Guy Leap
Seven as well. I think it's got a lot of good ingredients and I agree with the pitfalls Holly was describing. I think they're. They're easy to. To back home.
- [54:29]
Talia Wolf
Wow. I have a leak of four. We're going to rapidly do one more. All right, this is call tracking metrics. We're going to just. This is a lightning round, guys. So what we're going to do, we're going to go through, we're going to say three things we notice and then we're going to rate it. So we're going to go rapid fire. All right, this is call tracking metrics. They sell to marketing teams looking for attribution for phone calls and other call analysis. Typically a director or decision maker, paid strategist, paid managers researching do 20k sessions a month, about 30% or organic. Sitewide conversion is 1.2% with the key events, purchases, demo requests, sales, blah, blah, blah. There's no free option conversion rate excludes paid landing pages on subdomains. Last site Design was in 2023 and the interactive demos are brand new. Cool. Let's go to the screenshot. And then I'm going to Post that in the chat. All right. Right away I see the headline and I'm like, this is what we were talking about where it's like, unlock insights, drive revenue, could be literally anything.
- [55:28]
Scott Capuzzo
Yeah. I'll also say that the use of the color blue is a little problematic on the page. It continues throughout the entire page. This is kind of a basic UX thing, but you really don't want to use the same color of the call to action throughout the page so many times to highlight so many things because again, the call to action button gets drowned. And one other thing I would say is I'm not entirely sure I know why View pricing is on in the header. We have had multiple A B tests for our clients where we've, you know, you click on something and you go to the pricing page. But I don't see the value in having that as your main call to action because people will just navigate to pricing. They know that it's in the menu. So that would be my two pieces before everyone else gets into messaging.
- [56:15]
Talia Wolf
All right, guy, you go. You're up.
- [56:17]
Unknown
Yeah. I would say one thing I noticed is one of the call to actions on the product sections themselves, they're not action oriented. It just has the product name conversion intelligence and whatnot, where it makes it hard to understand what's going to happen or why should I click to that. And then it has launch Ask AI Tour. Not sure what that means. And that's the only place that it has that. Which added a little confusion for me. And I did feel like the sub copy itself on a lot of them was just very long. But what I did like with them is, at least for some of them, they did start to get into the pain points or the anxiety. Don't lose sleep trying to figure out which ads are driving the most qualified leads. I thought was good in the fact that it's starting to think about the customer's challenges in that way. But yeah, those are a couple of things that I noticed.
- [57:01]
Guy Leap
For me, I think what they do, having spent 15 years in AD tech before in telemize, is incredibly valuable. And I, I agree with Edita. I think some of the copy was confusing. There's so many messages above the fold. There's so many ways to describe things. I think speak to the ad buyer. I believe that's whom you're selling to and to tell an ad buyer. If your ads go to phone calls, if you're driving traffic into a store, if you're driving phone calls to a service, we will connect that ad to Your phone calls so you'll know what's working. Like, that is freaking magical. That is incredibly hard to do. Yes, there's some services out there that do it, but if this one's easy, that's great. They then added, oh, we'll actually crawl the calls like Gong will or others will and give you insights about what's working, what's not. I actually think that's it's a separate value proposal, and it's not clear that those are like the two primary things. And then we talked about the chatbot thing before. In my mind, that's like the biggest thing. Secondarily, I thought the storyline story lane demo was great. Could it be on page rather than popping out somewhere else? And the last was, company's been around for 15 years. You could leverage that as being experts. Now, you married that with AI. You could tell a story about being cutting edge. But the fundamental was, as a former ad person, this wasn't speaking to me on like, we're going to connect that missing link on your ads that are driving people to make a call.
- [58:22]
Talia Wolf
All right, ratings, Scott, I'm going to make you go first this time.
- [58:26]
Unknown
Okay. This one is six.
- [58:28]
Talia Wolf
That's so nice. All right, Talia, you're up.
- [58:33]
Scott Capuzzo
I am also going to go with a six.
- [58:36]
Talia Wolf
All right, guy, close us out here.
- [58:38]
Guy Leap
I'll go with five.
- [58:40]
Talia Wolf
Nice. All right, thank you guys for staying a little bit later. This was really fun. I think that's a sign of a good, like, live session when literally people in the chat are like, please stay and do more. Because I don't think I've ever been on, like, a live event where I'm like, yes, let me stay longer. So we really appreciate you guys spending an extra couple of minutes to close us out. Don't worry, guys, you will get the recording of this. We will send it to you very shortly, probably a couple of hours. And really appreciate our awesome panelists guy, Talia. And so, Scott, for showing up, sharing their knowledge. Go find them on LinkedIn, follow them, tell them you love them, and thank you guys. All right, we'll see you next time.
- [59:16]
Unknown
Thanks, everyone.
- [59:17]
Guy Leap
Thanks.
- [59:21]
Dave Gerhardt
Hey, thanks for listening to this podcast. If you like this episode. You know what? I'm not even going to ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that. I have something better for you. So we've built the number one private community for, for B2B marketers at exit 5. And you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating or review Go check it out right now on our website exit5.com our mission at Exit 5 is to help you grow your career in B2B marketing. And there's no better place to do that than with us at exit 5. There's nearly 5,000 members now in our community. People are in there posting every day asking questions about things like marketing, planning, ideas, inspiration, action, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers. Building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so you can have a peer group or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest. It's 100% free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free and then there's a small annual fee to pay if you want to become a member for the year. Go check it out. Learn more exit5.com and I will see you over there in the community.
- [60:24]
Guy Leap
Foreign.
- [60:32]
Dave Gerhardt
This episode is brought to you by Ztle. We're halfway through 2025 already somehow, and one thing's clear. Events are back baby. I'm all in on events. Here I am. Big event sky niche meetups, conferences, curated dinners, networking, you name it. Everyone's leaning in. I felt this with our business at Exit 5. I talked to a lot of CMOs and marketing people and marketing leaders through Exit 5. Everyone wants to something to do with events right now. And that's because events are human. We want to get out there and connect with real people. Events are a core part of our playbook. This year at Exit 5, we've hosted two virtual sessions each month. There's in person stuff, but there's also virtual. We do these virtual sessions each month. One large virtual event, one in person meetup. And right now already we're deep in the weeds planning our drive conference drive 2025, coming back to Vermont this September. And to do it all, we use Zuttle. Zuttle helps us run a smarter event strategy from driving, registrations, managing invite, automating, communications, reminders, analytics tracking. Their salesforce integration also makes it simple to report on pipeline and revenue from events without pulling in ops. On top of that, the differentiator with Zettle is how their team is insanely good at supporting us. It's all about the people. They always go above and beyond for us and that's how we've been able to keep the momentum going with 12 plus events already this year and more to come. If events are part of your marketing strategy like they are ours, check out Zuttle Z U D D L you can look at Zuttle to see how companies like Zillow, motive, Iterable and US Exit 5 are using Zuttle, the top event platform for business events in 2025. Go to zuttle.com exit5 that's z u--l.com exit5 to learn more.