Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Dave Gerhardt Show
Episode: How to Make Your Product Positioning Impossible to Ignore with April Dunford
Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Dave Gerhardt
Guest: April Dunford (Founder, Ambient Strategy)

Overview

This episode features a keynote from April Dunford, widely regarded as the leading expert on product positioning and author of Obviously Awesome. Speaking at Exit Five's DRIVE 2025 conference in Vermont, April shares five advanced, hard-won lessons from helping over 300 tech companies sharpen their positioning. Her talk is candid, energetic, and packed with actionable insights for marketers and business leaders determined to make their products impossible to ignore.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction & April's Background

• Dave introduces April as "the world's foremost authority on product positioning", noting the enduring popularity of her podcast episodes and books ([02:16]).
• April shares her journey: from 25 years as a VP of Marketing to her current consulting work, where she's helped hundreds of tech companies clarify their positioning ([04:26]).

Five Surprising Lessons on Product Positioning

1 — The Truth Matters: Stop Shying Away from Your Differentiators

Key Insight: Marketers often hold back true differentiators because competitors make the same (often misleading) claims.

• April stresses that while most marketers don't lie, they often believe their competitors are "dirty rotten liars" ([08:48]).
• She recounts a case study:
  • A client automated a five-step process into a single platform, shaving weeks off implementation.
  • Marketers hesitated to highlight this benefit because competitors made similar claims.
  • April helped them articulate the real difference: the competitor's solution required custom code and consultants; theirs was seamless and immediate.
• Lesson: Go tight on your differentiated value, and teach customers how to spot the difference between true and superficial claims ([12:46]).
• Memorable Quote:
  • "Customers love calling vendors on their bullshit." (April, imitating a sales VP) [15:05]
  • "We win every time, because we get customers to ask the questions that expose the competitor." [15:17]

2 — Your Best Differentiators Are Baffling to Buyers (Even Technical Ones)

Key Insight: Unique features only you offer are often misunderstood or undervalued without explanation.

• April discusses a company with a unique "fuzzy logic algorithm"—but buyers eliminated them because they didn't check off familiar features.
• Takeaway:
  • It's not the customer's job to understand your differentiated features. It's your job to translate unique features into clearly understandable value.
• She describes the "sweet spot" between raw features (which can be meaningless) and generic value props (which everyone claims).
• Memorable Quote:
  • "It is not our job in marketing and sales to be order takers... We actually have to teach the customers why it's important, because even if they're really technical, they don't know what that is." ([17:06])
• Practical Framework:
  • Move from feature → explain the “so what?” → land on value that sets you apart—avoid both meaningless tech specs and bland value props ([19:10]).

3 — Overthinking Your Market Category Will Kill You

Key Insight: You don’t need to invent a new category to succeed—most winning tech companies don’t.

• April points to an analysis: of tech companies going public, only 8% created a new market category; 92% competed in existing ones ([21:37]).
• She shares an example:
  • A small sales enablement startup in a crowded market thrived by owning clear differentiated value ("the only enablement platform built on Salesforce,” enabling measurable impact), not by inventing a new category.
  • Being in a crowded category helped: it made them findable and credible.
• Memorable Quote:
  • "Turned out being in the crowded market category wasn't a problem at all. In fact, it actually helped that company." ([26:18])
• Lesson: First, focus relentlessly on differentiated value. Only then worry about category and labels.

4 — Multi-product Companies Need a Clear Go-to-Market Strategy Before Positioning

Key Insight: You can’t nail positioning until you decide what exactly you’re positioning: the company, the platform, a lead product, or the suite?

• April lays out different scenarios:
  • Single-product companies = simple.
  • Multi-product companies = must choose: umbrella positioning, lead product with add-ons, or suite/platform ([29:24]).
• Example: Salesforce used to focus all messaging on Sales Cloud, even with other products in the portfolio, only promoting other offerings as add-ons to the core CRM.
• Advice:
  • "A lot of times, we don't have that even when we have multiple products because sometimes what we have is a lead product and then we have follow-on products... They weren't trying to be everything to everybody. It was just really all around the CRM." ([29:55])
• Action Step: Don’t jump to positioning until execs agree on GTM packaging and priorities.

5 — A Great Story with Weak Positioning Helps Your Competitors

Key Insight: If your narrative isn't tightly tied to your unique value, you make it easy for competitors to reap the benefits of your marketing.

• April illustrates with the IBM “E-business” campaign: it was memorable, but nothing in the story advantaged IBM over anyone else ([34:35]).
• Takeaway: A great narrative only works if only you can tell it—otherwise, you inspire "me too" competition.
• Example:
  • With IBM vs. Oracle, IBM focused their story on openness and integration—which Oracle couldn’t match—turning their small differentiator into the thing that mattered ([36:48]).
• Memorable Quote:
  • "A really great story is not just a great story. It's a great story only you can tell." ([39:35])

Practical Audience Q&A

How do you get execs to care about positioning?

• April: "Nobody gives a shit about positioning until it impacts sales... So I would hang out with sales for the first couple of weeks and listen for where things are going off the rails." ([43:01])
• Find evidence of lost deals or sales confusion, get Sales on your side, then convince leadership.

How to clarify Go-To-Market strategy if leadership is resistant?

• April: "Most of the time it hasn't been tackled because no one's asked the question." ([46:46])
• Suggest simple, logical questions—often examples like Salesforce help execs see the need.

What about companies with zero-touch purchase (no sales team)?

• April: "That information exists but you're going to have to do customer research to go get it." ([49:09])
• For PLG or zero-touch companies, use jobs-to-be-done interviews to discover real buying decision criteria.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We win every time because we get customers to ask the questions that expose the competitor." (April Dunford, [15:17])
• "It is not our job in marketing and sales to be order takers..." ([17:06])
• "A great narrative only works if only you can tell it—otherwise, you inspire 'me too' competition." ([39:35])
• "Nobody gives a shit about positioning until it impacts sales." ([43:01])

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 02:16 | Dave's intro & April's background | | 07:35 | How the pandemic triggered mass positioning issues | | 08:48 | Lesson 1: The Truth Matters (competitor claims) | | 12:46 | Combatting competitor half-truths in sales/marketing | | 17:00 | Lesson 2: Explaining Baffling Differentiators | | 21:37 | Lesson 3: Dangers of Category Creation Obsession | | 26:18 | Why being in a crowded category can help | | 29:24 | Lesson 4: GTM Clarity before Positioning | | 32:31 | Company vs. product positioning nuances | | 34:35 | Lesson 5: Why Story Alone Isn’t Enough | | 39:35 | Story: IBM vs. Oracle—story only you can tell | | 43:01 | Q&A: Getting execs to care about positioning | | 46:46 | Q&A: Convincing execs to clarify GTM | | 49:09 | Q&A: Zero-touch (PLG) companies need customer research |

Announcement: Expanded Edition of "Obviously Awesome"

• April teases an updated and expanded edition of her book, launching in February. Sign up for her newsletter to be notified ([41:49]).

Closing Thoughts

April Dunford’s DRIVE 2025 keynote gives marketers a powerful, battle-tested lens for making their product positioning both differentiated and defensible. From teaching customers how to call out competitor BS, to letting the truth be the wedge in competitive sales, to avoiding common traps around category and story, this talk is essential listening (and reading) for anyone responsible for marketing, sales or product strategy.

Final Five Lessons Recap:

1. Teach prospects to spot the truth.
2. The value of your best differentiators isn’t obvious—explain it.
3. Don’t overthink your category; focus on value.
4. Go-to-market strategy before positioning, always.
5. A great story must be uniquely yours.

This episode is a masterclass in positioning, delivered with humor, hard truths, and a dose of practical optimism.

For more on B2B marketing and to access April’s upcoming book update, visit Exit Five or follow April Dunford’s newsletter.